I Miss Aldaris

Campaign Discussion
Aldaris was one of my favorite characters and I always hated that he had to die. I still feel he could've been kept, would've been really useful during Legacy of the Void from a writing standpPint.
You got Rohana for similar view. Although I am kinda mad she wasn't proven right one single time. At least she had that badass moment of defiance to Amon.

However I guess that people who didn't read her short story won't appreciate her as much.
How would Aldaris have been useful in Legacy of the Void?
The reason you feel this way is because StarCraft and Brood War had good character development, and StarCraft 2 had little. Some characters were completely predictable and cliche, the rest were cardboard cutouts. People forget Rohanna. No one forgets Aldaris.
SC games have relatively small cast. It's hard to forget any talking character that isn't one-off.
...
...
...
Aldaris' character developed... once. He admitted they were wrong about Tass. That was his defining moment. I don't count the rebellion, because that was kind of his old self again.

It has nothing to do with character development. Fenix is exactly the same for all 4 episodes and that's why people love him. Zeratul's character develops once and most of it happens in a non-game material and it's more of a devaluation of character. (#bringbackoldzeratul)

And despite the fact lot of the old schools bear deep animosity towards SC2 (for various reasons, some of them are understandable, some of them are not), you can't deny the fact that there are quite a few new characters that won't be forgotten.

Tychus, Abathur, Alarak... Even likes of Horner, Vorazun and Dehaka have fans.

When you ask an average SC2 fan, who would they want to see in a next campaign, Alarak and Abathur come up almost unanimously. Or Niadra, because they wanna know what the hell happened.

Also comparing SC and SC2 side characters like this is quite flawed.

SC is played through eyes of a "nameless" protagonists (Magistrate, Commander, Executors, Cerebrates), while SC2 uses established characters on which it focuses the spotlight.

And Rohana specifically is the character that gets almost none of that spotlight, because the remainder Artanis leaves to other characters is split between Alarak's villainous charms, Talandar's identity crisis, Vorazun being the only sane woman and Karax' tinkering.

Only medium where you actually see Rohana's connection to Khala is her short story. Which is pretty damn good.

TL;DR

While I agree Aldaris is unforgettable, your argumentation why, is flawed.
08/22/2017 09:01 PMPosted by Wolf
The reason you feel this way is because StarCraft and Brood War had good character development, and StarCraft 2 had little.


No, the reason is because that particular character simply resonated with the OP. I mean, I like Aldaris too because he had to contend with dumbass Tassadar and also was voiced by good old Paul Eiding, but even I reckon he is an entirely cliché and predictable character, i.e. the curmudgeon/crusty old man.

And if you want cardboard cutouts, look no further than Fenix: the character always went with the flow and had so little going character wise that he could have easily been replaced with a nameless Zealot/Dragoon.

08/22/2017 09:01 PMPosted by Wolf
People forget Rohanna. No one forgets Aldaris.


That is because StarCraft/Brood War had so few characters to begin with: Aldaris was the sole Protoss antagonist of the Protoss campaigns as well as the only character acting as a foil to Tassadar, so of course, you would remember him.

StarCraft II, on the other hand, had not only a much larger cast but also had several characters acting as a foil to Artanis: Rohana, of course, but also Selendis and Alarak. While Rohana spent most of the game secluded from the rest of the crew and Selendis did not get to do much aside from acting as a host for Amon, Alarak received plenty of screen time and kept stealing the scene with his flamboyant behaviour and his utterly appalling beliefs. Even poor Aldaris could not compete with such a ham.
Fenix couldn't be replaced by nameless zealot/dragoon. He's a testament to being a Templar. He's a perfect regular Protoss warrior. He's what tiny Protoss Khalai kids wished to be. Certified badass of the empire. Also he's the one half of the pair that made the first Terran-Protoss friendship.

I always felt like actual foil to Artanis is Vorazun. Alarak had John de Lancie as his VA, which is never a bad thing.

I like Rohana, mostly because of her short story though.

If there is a completely forgettable character, it's Izsha or Stetmann.
08/23/2017 06:24 AMPosted by Skehan
I always felt like actual foil to Artanis is Vorazun. Alarak had John de Lancie as his VA, which is never a bad thing.

Vorazun and Alarak are both foils to Artanis, in different ways. Alarak is his evil opposite, and shows what Artanis would be like without his strong moral and ideological center. Effective, brutal, powerful, and a little empty. Alarak in a way is what the protoss are afraid they will see when they collectively look in the mirror.

Vorazun on the other hand is the more emotional side of the protoss. She represents the part of them that take things personally, that bled with the loss of Aiur, tassadar and Raszagal. She is driven by that emotion, and while she isn't blinded by it, its one of her primary judgment tools. Theres also a little fear there. Fear of change, mostly, but fear of hope, too. The protoss are jaded, and you can kind of see it in Vorazun.

Artanis is the temperance, patience and wisdom, the part that keeps both eyes open, and makes sure every step is sturdy before putting your foot down. He is restrained and thoughtful, considering things from every angle, sometimes to the point of confusion. He points Vorazun's drive in the right direction, restrains Alarak's power and callousness so they don't become overwhelming.
That's what I love about Vorazun. She shows you can be emotional, but still contain yourself and be as pragmatical as needed. (Also because blowing up the temple was her idea.) She was able to judge things properly when it was critical. She took her chances with Alarak and she blew up her homeworld. Also she was able to withstand Alarak's banter during 2nd invasion.

Artanis shows that being righteous and kind doesn't mean you're weak.

And Alarak shows that just because you're mean, it doesn't mean you're wrong.

(Parallel to Stratos? JK)

LotV has... actually done quite well characterwise.
Same. Who is going to tell me that I must construct additional pylons now???
08/22/2017 06:54 AMPosted by JohnnyZeWolf
How would Aldaris have been useful in Legacy of the Void?


Perspective.

kind of like Rohana except not so easily swayed.

but instead he was a pawn in the worst arc of BW :/
08/23/2017 06:24 AMPosted by Skehan
He's a testament to being a Templar. He's a perfect regular Protoss warrior. He's what tiny Protoss Khalai kids wished to be. Certified badass of the empire. Also he's the one half of the pair that made the first Terran-Protoss friendship.


I hope this to be the presentation for Fenix when He enters Heroes of the Storm.

Back on the topic, I think there's just not enough room in SC1 to bring some good character development.

The story is pretty much rushed, the writers were young and kinda amateur, they weren't sure of what the story would be until the end of the game development. There is even unused campaign content which got into the game data (dialogue, unit models, a freaking entire mission) meaning they were doing changes until the last moments.

Campaign is just too short and has some plot holes here and there.

I mean, I freaking love campaign , but from a story-wise, narrative point of view, is not a great work.

Why I said all this? Because I feel no character has a real development, and everyone is kind of a stereotype.
I would wanted SC to have much more characters insight and plot twists.

It would have been cool if there were like, two campaigns per race, where you get to play from the different points of view (said, playing as a Raynor magistrate, and next as a Mengsk officer; but maybe it would break immersion)
08/24/2017 05:02 AMPosted by Fefnir
08/23/2017 06:24 AMPosted by Skehan
He's a testament to being a Templar. He's a perfect regular Protoss warrior. He's what tiny Protoss Khalai kids wished to be. Certified badass of the empire. Also he's the one half of the pair that made the first Terran-Protoss friendship.


I hope this to be the presentation for Fenix when He enters Heroes of the Storm.


As an avid Heroes player, so do I.

#NALUL

In terms of the SC1 campaigns... Character development is there for Aldaris, Kerrigan and... Jimmy. Mourning Zeratul is off-screen and other character changes are mostly a betrayal/mind control/infestation.

WoL has Tychus aaand that's basically it, since Raynor is the exact same person for the whole campaign. Any changes of character happened in between the wars. Raynor doesn't have character development in WoL. He has mental issues. Alcoholism and bipolar disorder to be exact. Tosh and Hanson are kinda devalued by the branching. Minor succes in this field is Swann standing up to Raynor despite not being in full agreement.

HotS has character development of Kerrigan, whose portrayal was so fu^king bad, it's for the better not count it. Which leaves us with Zagara smartening up and her space racism towards Primals. Dehaka has like 3 great lines (his disrespect towards tools and Zagara, what it means to be a Primal and his dialogue about difference between him and other pack leaders)(maybe the best stuff in this regard in whole HotS), but that's it.

LotV is actually the first campaign that managed to succeed in developing more than one character.

Talandar and his identity crisis, Karax manning up, Rohana coping with new era, Vorazun making peace with the union and Alarak showing fragments of respect/appreciation towards Daelaam. (Wishing to see angry Artanis against Amon, praising Templar combat prowess and acknowledging Artanis as no pushover.)

Ironically... it's Artanis who is mostly the same, besides becoming more experienced and tested.

Funny thing is that NCO also manages to push forward at least two characters - Nova and Valerian.

EDIT: I managed to forget Kerrigan exists in vanilla. Fixed.
08/24/2017 05:02 AMPosted by Fefnir
It would have been cool if there were like, two campaigns per race, where you get to play from the different points of view (said, playing as a Raynor magistrate, and next as a Mengsk officer; but maybe it would break immersion)


Technically, the latter has already been done with Enslavers.

08/23/2017 06:24 AMPosted by Skehan
He's a testament to being a Templar. He's a perfect regular Protoss warrior. He's what tiny Protoss Khalai kids wished to be. Certified badass of the empire. Also he's the one half of the pair that made the first Terran-Protoss friendship.


He is such a "perfect regular Protoss warrior" that he died twice in a comically embarrassing manner and could not accomplish anything on his own. Again, he could have been just a nameless Zealot/Dragoon, let alone not there at all, that the end result would have been no different: Aldaris could have been the one to agree to Tassadar's plan and later on to angrily greet Tassadar upon his return, Raynor could have offered his help to rescue Tassadar to the Executor directly and been the leader of the Protoss warband staying behind to defend the Warp Gate.

Also, the first Terran-Protoss friendship was between Raynor and Tassadar; the two are actually shown bonding several times throughout the original game. In comparison, all we see of Raynor and Fenix's "friendship" in the original game is the former offering his help to repay his debt - to Tassadar - and the latter saying yes.

I think it ultimately speaks volume as to Fenix's character that people have to constantly make things up about him in order for him to be considered relevant to the story. Even Blizzard clearly struggled to give Fenix things to do in Brood War and that is probably why they decided to have him killed alongside Duke.
First time it was technology failure and a second time a game gimmick OR you actually swarmed his sorry a-ss.
08/24/2017 05:02 AMPosted by Fefnir
Why I said all this? Because I feel no character has a real development, and everyone is kind of a stereotype.
I would wanted SC to have much more characters insight and plot twists.


completely disagree.

We've already mentioned Aldaris, there is also Kerrigan who went from the abused to becoming the abuser, Dugalle who went from a proud admiral to a dishonored and regretful failure, and Raynor who went from a wise cracking everyman to a vengeful soul after what Kerrigan did to his Brotoss.

Sure you have some dumb **** too like Mengsk going from a pretty intelligent if not cold tacitian to a bumbling idiot, but there's still a lot more development than the actual stereotype ridden mess that is SC2.

And especially whatever the hell hots was supposed to be.
DuGalle doesn't go through character development, it is actually portrayal development.

Portrayal or character development - only campaign that actually contains a bigger amount of something like that is LotV.
...
...
...
Mengsk acted stupid only to allow Kerrigan to kill Amon. He saved the universe by proxy.

Praise Mengsk \o/
I enjoyed the Aldaris character for what he provided opposite the other Protoss characters, but I'll always feel like the Insurgent level ruined his character. Going to war first before even attempting to try to talk to someone was just stupid.
08/24/2017 02:41 PMPosted by Retloclive
I enjoyed the Aldaris character for what he provided opposite the other Protoss characters, but I'll always feel like the Insurgent level ruined his character. Going to war first before even attempting to try to talk to someone was just stupid.


communication is a bad word for the BW expansion.
08/23/2017 01:32 AMPosted by Skehan
SC games have relatively small cast. It's hard to forget any talking character that isn't one-off.


Not just a small cast, but not alot of time to even develop on them as well. Looking back, the story was very short; and we didn't get to see much interaction between the characters. StarCraft did a pretty good job with the constraints that they had.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum