Dodging in matchmaking

General Discussion
hey friends it thought they where going to close this thread already but read the last things i cant but agree with Dragon, Achaen and all the other people, some of the other people probably didn't read the whole thing or missed what the basic fact where, you must understand that even reading it seems you want to dodge match making, even the thread name is called dodge match making... i mean common,

But again the main point remains, switching race is injurious, maybe and only MAYBE if you are playing against the same person over and over again you should be able to change races, but even that which i have said before in this thread, is something that i think its rather annoying.

You people say having a list lets say, "if i get vs Protoss let me be Zerg", the answer is NO at least for me, i think that is detrimental for what RANK stands for, i liked what Final said:

06/24/2018 07:06 AMPosted by Final
eople are leaving the game by closing the process so they don't play the match up the hate !!!!


I thought i was the only one, or at least i was the only one that actually complained about this, you racepickers should consider yourselfs lucky that the devs are not working on a way to block this behavior. Wait:

06/18/2018 05:10 PMPosted by Grant Davies
Yes, we're working on assigning a loss to the disconnecting player in this case, which we're looking to roll out soon.


hmmm i would be worried if i where you, my advice is that you understand that RANK is the same for everyone. The whole thing makes me think, in old FISH or ICCUP times people where able to get to higher stats by only playing the matches they liked?, because if i only played pvz and pvt i would be 2200 probably right now, because PVP is kicking my !@# so hard at 1800 level. Now i know you are saying you want to switch races, but the fact is that you been LEAVING THE GAME BY CLOSING THE PROCESS ALL THIS TIME!!! and that should be punished in great measure.

If its such a big deal for you, let there be a system in which you can chose a race right before the game starts but there are some things to consider in here...

  • If this ever comes to be you should get points deducted, not many, but some, because you are not playing the match the way RANK intended you to play it. I think that is fair enough, so if lets say you where suppose to sin 12 points, you win 8 now and see a nice (-4 for Race Picking) in the end screen
  • If you get a sub menu in races to chose "if i get protoss i want to be zerg" etc the same should apply
  • If you get to change on the fly when the counter starts the game should annoyingly go to the Custom game Pre screen and warn the other player that the race has been changed, this is because P2P might not update the portraits quick enough
  • now there is a way i think you people can be happy with this, if you are playing the same person over and over again you should get a way to change the game race WITHOUT LOSING EXTRA POINTS !!!.

    but that's it, that's my take on race picking, is bad for RANK and you should be ashamed about it and how you are closing processes and making everyone else sad. If you get to chose specific races you should get points deducted from you MMR, but if you play the same person a second time this points should NOT get deducted.
    The argument "you're only playing the matchups you like" isn't exactly valid because the same can be said about a regular player, as in: you only play Terran, you're avoiding ZvP.

    I agree that alt+F4 out of a game should be punished, because people shouldn't be able to dodge players. If racepicking was implemented in game like it was suggested, racepickers wouldn't need to do this.
    06/24/2018 05:14 PMPosted by Achaean
    The argument "you're only playing the matchups you like" isn't exactly valid because the same can be said about a regular player, as in: you only play Terran, you're avoiding ZvP.

    I agree that alt+F4 out of a game should be punished, because people shouldn't be able to dodge players. If racepicking was implemented in game like it was suggested, racepickers wouldn't need to do this.


    i agree with eh alt+f4 thing, but shouldn't you also agree that people that chose "what races to pick vs which other races" should get point punished also?, sounds fir to me, but lets be honest, they will leave it as it is. I personally would not care anyways, i would even welcome it as my MMR will be slight better if you will, will push me to learn other races better also probably so that's a positive. But lets be realistic nobody gives a grain of care for this.
    Dragon, i got mad respect for you but you're really showing off that "BW elitest" that is such a turn off to new players. For a second please turn that off and realize how much more complicated ranked play would be for a lower/newer player with what you're suggesting. Not everyone has as much experience navigating ladders as we do.

    Your "system" would most likely confuse the !@#$ out of a new player and most likely drive them away from dabbling in / trying out competitive play. Possibly leading them ultimately away from the game, which would be counter intuitive to what yours and all our goal should be. The growth of the scene/game.

    Simple sometimes is better.
    06/24/2018 08:05 PMPosted by Strider
    Dragon, i got mad respect for you but you're really showing off that "BW elitest" that is such a turn off to new players. For a second please turn that off and realize how much more complicated ranked play would be for a lower/newer player with what you're suggesting. Not everyone has as much experience navigating ladders as we do.

    Your "system" would most likely confuse the !@#$ out of a new player and most likely drive them away from dabbling in / trying out competitive play. Possibly leading them ultimately away from the game, which would be counter intuitive to what yours and all our goal should be. The growth of the scene/game.

    Simple sometimes is better.


    No? lol

    If they don't understand what the 1 additional button does, they could just not use it. And even if they opened it, it would be quite clear what it does.

    I don't get what's so complicated. The complicated stuff are the things you have to fill in when creating a custom game. Nubs don't know what Turn Rate, Extended Unit Limit, etc. are. (As a side note, it would be nice to have a on hover explanation for those for noobs.)
    06/24/2018 07:06 AMPosted by Final
    the possibility of me saying: i just want to play vs protoss? KeK why would anyone want to do that, i cant believe people like talking about this when its so obvious you delusional if you think that the rank button is a tournament, is just a ladder you dumb people, how can you even be considered good if your mmr only considers that you only like playing one or two matchups but you are just too weak to play your worst match up?


    Lol - people like this are posting in this thread. Please stop. Educate yourselves.

    Please learn what race picking is and stop assuming this type of non sense. You're the people who are downvoting the GOOD posts by DragOn and others.
    06/24/2018 05:14 PMPosted by Achaean
    The argument "you're only playing the matchups you like" isn't exactly valid because the same can be said about a regular player, as in: you only play Terran, you're avoiding ZvP.

    I agree that alt+F4 out of a game should be punished, because people shouldn't be able to dodge players. If racepicking was implemented in game like it was suggested, racepickers wouldn't need to do this.
    Indeed. Its an odd mentality, isnt it? You shouldnt be able to play the matchups you find fun you little !@#$!

    It's bizarre. No rationality whatsoever.
    Actually the way this is going the queue times are going to increase if blizzard doesnt implement race picking, because some race pickers will just stop laddering and might even quit SCR.
    Dragons absolutely right about this. I havent laddered in months. Ive never liked all three matchups for any race, ive been playing competitive melee bw since 2005. I think i know what i like, and whats a better experience for me than blizzard does, and its race picking. Ladder became fruitless. Without race picking the ladder is long term unsustainable.
    any of you explain to me i am curious enough to want to understand racepickers want a way to chose what race goes with what race but that will mean that they only play what is safe for them and they dont want to learn nothing new or get better on the weak matchup why so many people like this idea to chose?

    seems to me like the are people that are cheaters of used to how old starcraft was played but the button to start the ranking is something new 2017 why they compare the old with the new?
    06/24/2018 08:05 PMPosted by Strider
    Dragon, i got mad respect for you but you're really showing off that "BW elitest" that is such a turn off to new players. For a second please turn that off and realize how much more complicated ranked play would be for a lower/newer player with what you're suggesting. Not everyone has as much experience navigating ladders as we do.

    Your "system" would most likely confuse the !@#$ out of a new player and most likely drive them away from dabbling in / trying out competitive play. Possibly leading them ultimately away from the game, which would be counter intuitive to what yours and all our goal should be. The growth of the scene/game.

    Simple sometimes is better.


    Not sure what part of my posts has to do with BW elitism. I welcome new players to the game and I think they should be able to play whichever matchup they choose. I dont think having one extra button (that you dont even need to click at all if youre not a racepicker) is going to deter people from playing lol.

    Im currently coaching a group of new or low level players in the CPL league. Out of about 12players, 2 of them are racepickers. They dont ladder much, probably because ladder sucks for racepickers. What would drive them away from the game is if they wanted to become competitive players (which they do to some extent, thats why im coaching them) but couldnt get good practice. Having an all inclusive ladder is important for new players as well as old.
    06/25/2018 12:57 PMPosted by ElsoCrazy
    any of you explain to me i am curious enough to want to understand racepickers want a way to chose what race goes with what race but that will mean that they only play what is safe for them and they dont want to learn nothing new or get better on the weak matchup why so many people like this idea to chose?
    Cant you just flip that logic on its head? People who play only one race are afraid of learning new matchups? I'm still playing three matchups just like you are. I'll still have a weak and a strong matchup.
    06/25/2018 12:57 PMPosted by ElsoCrazy

    seems to me like the are people that are cheaters of used to how old starcraft was played but the button to start the ranking is something new 2017 why they compare the old with the new?
    It's not cheating to race pick, your just picking what your find enjoyable about the game. People have in it there heads that:

    A, race pickers can avoid all the "hard" matchups and therefore will doing really well
    B, in tandem with maps they could in effect 'rig' their success, but the problem with this logic is that both racial and map imbalances are fairly minor-- the greatest discrepancy in the map pool, is like 5-6%. The most racially imbalanced matchup is like 2-3% overall. Independent of the reality that racial and map balance arent what newbs think they are: If I play three matchups and get to X MMR, thats what im capable of playing at, its the area in which im capable of reaching relative parity with other players. It's moralistic to say, ok, you are going 50% against players on the ladder, your having fun, by virtue of the competitive matching your opponent is having fun, but thats not good enough. Be a "man" play one race. Huh?

    The point of the ladder is to bring people to a point where they can get a competitive match, race picking allows people to play what they find fun, what they are good at, and meet their best opponents. Forcing one race means, as Dragon has already explained ad nauseum, that invariably your mmr will not meet your true skill.

    edit: and the reason people are comparing the two systems is obvious and has also already been explained. People have played this game for years, they self selected the matchups they found fun and put effort into them, forcing people to play matchups and learn matchups they dont want to is directly antithetical to the entire point of a video game: to enjoy yourself. I've played every race, every matchup, probably thousands of games more than the losers who are obsessively/ignorantly downvoting race picking, I know what I enjoy about bw, i know what i dont like. So does everyone else.
    06/25/2018 12:57 PMPosted by ElsoCrazy
    any of you explain to me i am curious enough to want to understand racepickers want a way to chose what race goes with what race but that will mean that they only play what is safe for them and they dont want to learn nothing new or get better on the weak matchup why so many people like this idea to chose?

    seems to me like the are people that are cheaters of used to how old starcraft was played but the button to start the ranking is something new 2017 why they compare the old with the new?


    Not sure if I understand what youre saying here, but afaik the gist is that people shouldnt racepick because its past 2017 (so what?) and that racepicking is an easy option that doesnt require people to learn.

    Racepicking is not easier than playing pure matchups. As I have posted about on page 2. This "weak matchup" train of thought is fallacious. Everyone who plays 3 matchups has 6 matchups that are weak. You play terran? Ok your "weak matchups" are zvp zvt zvz pvt pvz pvp. Why dont you get better in your weak matchup? Youre just taking the easy way out.
    for people that want to pick the race i have one question only to udnerstand where they stand once and for all

    What race are you going to pick vs random??

    ????

    the answer is: you dont want to play random either !!!! because you are cheaters that want to kick matches you don't like !!!!
    06/25/2018 02:39 PMPosted by Awaiting
    for people that want to pick the race i have one question only to udnerstand where they stand once and for all

    What race are you going to pick vs random??

    ????

    the answer is: you dont want to play random either !!!! because you are cheaters that want to kick matches you don't like !!!!


    I would play protoss vs random. No one likes playing vs random, but its part of the game. Ive explained how to deal with randoms on page one. Read the thread before posting. I fail to see how any of this is cheating. Please put more effort into posting lol
    06/25/2018 02:39 PMPosted by Awaiting
    for people that want to pick the race i have one question only to udnerstand where they stand once and for all

    What race are you going to pick vs random??

    ????

    the answer is: you dont want to play random either !!!! because you are cheaters that want to kick matches you don't like !!!!
    Who are you to tell me if I want to play random or not? What the !@#$? Perfectly happy to open toss against a random player.
    06/20/2018 05:34 PMPosted by DragOn
    Using alt f4 is the only way myself and other racepickers can successfully ladder right now without system support for it.


    why are this people not banned from all blizzard games already is this why i have to wait 400 seconds extra when i see a portrait this is enraging to an extended i have never felt before, and they actually come here to an official forum place from Blizzard and admit they do that and they get no punishment for it, life is just great

    06/18/2018 05:10 PMPosted by Grant Davies
    Yes, we're working on assigning a loss to the disconnecting player in this case, which we're looking to roll out soon.


    Grant which is a : Senior Software Developer for stacraft remastered is against it and there are at least 2 people in this thread that admit doing it

    we want blood mr grant they are making us wait 2 minutes or 4 minutes more just because they fell they should chose a race before match starts kick this bastards please
    06/25/2018 03:05 PMPosted by NxS
    06/20/2018 05:34 PMPosted by DragOn
    Using alt f4 is the only way myself and other racepickers can successfully ladder right now without system support for it.


    why are this people not banned from all blizzard games already is this why i have to wait 400 seconds extra when i see a portrait this is enraging to an extended i have never felt before, and they actually come here to an official forum place from Blizzard and admit they do that and they get no punishment for it, life is just great

    06/18/2018 05:10 PMPosted by Grant Davies
    Yes, we're working on assigning a loss to the disconnecting player in this case, which we're looking to roll out soon.


    Grant which is a : Senior Software Developer for stacraft remastered is against it and there are at least 2 people in this thread that admit doing it

    we want blood mr grant they are making us wait 2 minutes or 4 minutes more just because they fell they should chose a race before match starts kick this bastards please
    Blizzard is the one creating a system that bucks the trends/accepted standards of the community, not the other way around. Dragon is a fairly top level competitive player, hes been in tournaments, he streams, hes written guides on how to play, etc. Who are you? Honestly, have you even been playing bw for five months?
    even if Flash uses alt+f4 because he cries when playing pvz even him should get banned.

    i prefer being a 5 month N00v that plays casually (which btw im not) than a ser proclaimed (important guy) that has a cheaters Ranked mmr grade, some of us have to work and have no time to twitch while dad pays the bills

    be real people you are asking for something that its completely outside of the currect rules, if in the future a patch updates comes that says

  • You can now Pick a Race in rank mode and use the automatic switch race menu since version1.22


  • then i would say ok!! fack it, but the fact that you people are defending someone that has been closing the process probably since release and also claims to have high mmr because of that !!! he would probably kick my !@# i know i am 1800 mmr in korea server and struggling but i have periods of 3 months that i just cant play

    get your heard out of your butts and stop thinking that you are right just because it was right somewhere else? i admit i have no time to read it all there is probably a lot of things that are correct about race picking but at the end is all about that alt f4 stop doing it you are cancer
    I dont think any racepicker here is advocating for alt+f4, it is definitely an annoying thing that should be punished. What is being discussed is the system allowing racepickers to do so without needing alt+f4.
    Yeah I dont want to use Alt F4, I dont think it should exist. Racepicking support should exist instead. Problem solved.
    Ladder is a competitive environment. A competitive environment means playing against and being competent against all races.


    This is silly. If not a lot of people want racepicking, than it won't bother the majority, and hugely increases the satisfaction of those who do. If the majority of people want to racepick, then it's something that should be implemented yet again.

    I used to use ladder for practicing specific matchups in the iccup days, now I can't do that. Sometimes I get 10 TvZ-s in a row now, and 10 games might be all the time I have for playing BW that day, and I didn't get to play the matchup I really wanted to play / practice that day. Not fun at all, not a good experience. Sometimes I just wanna play TvP. Sometimes I just wanna practice a certain MU. Why can't I do that now? Isn't that what matchmaking is supposed to be for? Find a good match quickly? It's not doing its job very well. The lobby system was better.

    The matchmaker should definitely allow for racepicking.

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