Story Forum

Oct 26, 2010 Welcome: Please Read! Welcome to the Warcraft Story Forum! This forum is here as a means for players to discuss the storylines of the Warcraft universe, as told in-game and through the novels, manga, comics, and short stories that Blizzard publishes. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy, so we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct (http://us.battle.net/en/community/conduct) and guidelines (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/15252595157) before posting. Important Reminders: Search The search function at the top of the World of Warcraft community site is extremely effective and robust. Before you create a new forum topic, please be use it to search for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer for which you are looking. Making a new thread on an existing subject can result in your thread being deleted or, if you continue to re-post the same content, the loss of your forum privileges for spamming. Rating The forum rating system can be used to promote positive discussion, demote unhelpful comments, and even report posts that violate the forum Code of Conduct. By hovering over a post you'll be presented with several options, including a "thumbs up" (Like) and a "thumbs down" (Dislike) icon. Clicking the "thumbs up" icon will rate the post up. If enough people like a post, it will gain a Highly Rated status and appear at the top of related search results. Highly Rated posts will also have a highlighted background. Clicking the "thumbs down" icon will expand a drop-down menu which will include "Dislike," "Trolling, "Spam" and "Report" options. "Dislike" will rate the post down. If enough people dislike a post, it will be darkened, and with a lot of dislikes it will be hidden completely. You can also quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of a violation. Please note that you can only rate each post once. Use your power wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community. While the community team will be moderating this forum as normal, members of the Creative Development team will also be monitoring discussions and looking for constructive feedback. Have fun posting on these forums, and good luck with your adventures in Azeroth!Lylirra1 Oct 26, 2010
Nov 9, 2010 Meet Creative Development What is Creative Development? Creative Development (CDev) is a "hub" within Blizzard, facilitating the development of ancillary products and services that tie into Blizzard's game universes. While there are several different divisions of CDev, this Warcraft Story forum focuses on the efforts of the Publishing division. What does Creative Development's Publishing division have to do with Warcraft's stories and lore? The Publishing division within Creative Development is the driving force behind every published story you've seen outside of the game: short stories, novels, comics, and manga. Who comprises the Publishing division of Creative Development? Publishing is made of two groups: Story Development: This group focuses on story idea creation, story outlining, and story development for licensed fiction, as well as for internally-written stories. Historians: This group is the repository for all Blizzard lore, providing counsel for the game development teams and the CDev Story Development group. What is the Publishing division's usual process for developing a story? Idea Generation & Outline Creation: Working with Chris Metzen and the designers on the respective game's development team, the Story Development team generates an idea and an outline for a story. The writer on the project is typically invited to our offices at this point in the project, so that they can be in on the ground floor of the story's creation. Story Development & Lore Checking: Over the course of the project, the Story Development team talks constantly with the writer, as well as with Chris Metzen and the game developers, in order to help hone the story into a Blizzard-quality tale. At the same time, our Historian team combs through the iterations of the story in order ensure that the story adheres to the universe's established canon. * Please note that the CDev Publishing division has only been fully staffed since early 2009, allowing for more resources and manpower to dedicate to each published product. What does the Publishing division hope to accomplish with this Warcraft Story forum? We'd like to give the community a chance to influence the development of our upcoming stories, so we're trying something new; this forum will serve as a direct line to our story developers. Please note that we're not looking for fully-formed stories - save those for the Global Writing Contest (which we operate and judge) - but rather we're looking for specific examples of what people like, don't like, and what they would like to see (story-wise) from us in the future. Lylirra0 Nov 9, 2010
May 1 Read This Before You Post For whatever reason, this forum is seeing a massive influx of new posters. Whether it's due to the imminent launch of an expansion (and the tidal wave of lore accompanying it) or just a surge of passion, I feel like I need to reiterate some ground rules and common courtesies. 1). Be Objective! Do not come into this forum and make threads that begin with "So and so is such a terrible character" or loaded questions with heavy bias, i.e. "Why is the Horde so evil?" Doing so is just going to incite other posters an inevitably turn the thread into a flame war. On certain occasions this can also be grounds for disciplinary action. Play nice and keep an open mind. We're here to discuss story elements, not argue over opinions. Try to think like a writer. This is especially true for highly controversial topics like the Forsaken. 2). This Forum Is Not For Fan-Made Fiction! Despite what the name may imply, the Story Forum is not for sharing or discussing fan-made material. It is for discussing officially sanctioned lore/stories only. In short, if it doesn't have a Blizzard logo, it doesn't belong here. That doesn't mean you're forbidden from linking any fiction you may have written (it can be useful in explaining your position on a topic, for instance) or posting the odd paragraph; however, copying large amounts of text or creating threads specifically for any fiction you've written will be deleted or moved. If you want to discuss your own material please take it to the fine folks at the World's End Tavern Forum (otherwise known as the RP forum): http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/1011637/ 3). If You Have A Question, Chances Are Someone Else Has Already Asked It World of Warcraft has a lot of content, and the expanded universe of Warcraft as a whole has even more. However, there are several very popular topics that get addressed again and again. Before you create a new thread please check through the past few pages to see if there's already an existing thread on your topic. Not only does this keep the forum nice and tidy but it benefits you as well. Long threads tend to already have a very healthy discussion of its topic, and you may find through reading it that your particular insight has already been brought up, discussed, and concluded. If not, it's always better to stimulate an existing discussion than to try and start a new one from scratch. Don't worry, those of us who frequent this forum do carefully read each others posts. You don't need to start a new thread to draw attention. Furthermore, the regulars of this forum get very sick of answering the same questions all day long. I know the Search function hasn't always been the kindest tool, but again please take a few moments to quickly browse through the first few pages. 4). We Are Not Your Personal Encyclopedia On that note, this is not a Q&A forum. Think of it like a book club. You wouldn't show up to your group meeting and then start asking everyone what happened in the last chapter. You're expected to do your own research before coming here and opening topics for discussion. If you're looking for some direction there are many very helpful resources at your disposal: The Story Starter Guide, a sticky at the top of this forum. It includes information and links to out-of-game novels that are a great investment if you're interested in the lore of Warcraft: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1008220832 WoWPedia (formally WoWWiki), a crowd-sourced wiki on nearly everything you could possibly want to know about the Warcraft universe. A superb first-stop and excellent reference material for discussions: http://www.wowpedia.org/Portal:Main TvTropes, while not specific to Warcraft or Blizzard, is a great way to familiarize yourself with various writing or storytelling techniques. Potentially confusing points in the story of Warcraft can seem much more approachable when you realize it's all just part of a larger plan, and many posters on this forum like to reference popular tropes. Be warned, this website will devour countless hours of your time: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage That said, if there's something that's notably vague or unclear, by all means bring it up! Just avoid questions that can be solved easier and quicker with a search engine than a forum post. 5). Back Up What You Have To Say Be clear and concise with what you're trying to say and provide as much source material as is helpful. The more information you provide, the easier it will be for others to understand and respond to what you are trying to say. This is especially true for potentially obscure in-game quests. 6). This Is A Warcraft Forum Blizzard has many successful franchises with many rich, engaging stories. However, this is a Warcraft forum. Any threads pertaining to Starcraft, Diablo, or any other Blizzard product aren't allowed. Each of those games has their own forums specifically dedicated for their own lore. The Starcraft lore forum can be found here: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/1324400/ Diablo lore can be discussed on the Legacy Battle.net forum here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/3354994/ 7). Have Fun! This forum enjoys a very close relationship with its posters. Everyone here loves the work that Blizzard does, and on some level yearns to make it better. So be respectful to your fellow posters and don't make inflammatory attacks against Blizzard or members of its staff. This forum has a rather unique dynamic that is much... healthier than other forums, so don't come in here with a poisonous attitude. New ideas or insights are always welcome, as are humor and witty banter. Engage in topics that you find really exciting, but don't openly scoff at those that don't. Don't be afraid to change your mind. The past, present, and future are all fair game. Just be mindful of the rules and common courtesies, and above all else, have fun geeking out. Oh, and the Like and Dislike buttons exist for a reason!Odok112 May 1
Nov 9, 2010 Story Starter Guide Looking for more Warcraft information, but don't know where to start? Whether you've played Warcraft I, II, or III, these books will showcase the people and events that have shaped the Warcraft universe over the last few (in-game) decades: Rise of the Horde by Christie Golden - https://gear.blizzard.com/us/category/books-art/warcraft-rise-of-the-horde-book Set before the orcs invade Azeroth for the first time, this story explores what the orc race was like before its clans were forged into a single savage Horde under the influence of the demonic Burning Legion. Part of the novel focuses on the orc Orgrim Doomhammer and his childhood friend, Durotan (who would later become Thrall's father). Other parts of the story depict the aging shaman Ner'zhul; his ambitious apprentice, Gul'dan; the mighty Grommash Hellscream; the wise draenei leader, Velen; and several other significant characters. The Last Guardian by Jeff Grubb - https://gear.blizzard.com/us/category/books-art/warcraft-last-guardian-book This is a good introduction to older human history in Warcraft, with emphasis on the events of the First War (Warcraft I). Medivh, the Guardian of Tirisfal, decides to take on an apprentice: the young mage Khadgar. As time goes on, Khadgar learns that a half-orc named Garona is acting as a secret emissary to the nation of Stormwind. While he and Garona try to reach an understanding, Khadgar realizes that Medivh's behavior is growing increasingly erratic. Ultimately he and Sir Anduin Lothar, the childhood friend of both Medivh and King Llane Wrynn of Stormwind, reach a terrible realization: Medivh, an incredibly powerful wizard, is under the control of Sargeras, Destroyer of Worlds, creator of the demonic Burning Legion. This novel is also in print as part of the Warcraft Archive. Beyond the Dark Portal by Aaron Rosenberg and Christie Golden – Currently Out of Stock in Blizzard Store, but can be found on Amazon.com here: https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Dark-Portal-World-Warcraft/dp/1416550860 This is a good introduction to Alliance and Horde history during the events of Warcraft IIx. Instead of starting a new war, the shaman Ner'zhul has decided to open dimensional rifts from the orc homeworld of Draenor into fresh new worlds to conquer. Horrified at the possibility, Sir Lothar's former lieutenant, the human paladin Turalyon, leads an Alliance expedition into Draenor to stop Ner'zhul. With Turalyon are the mage Khadgar and the ranger Alleria Windrunner (the older sister of Sylvanas and Vereesa). Alleria and Turalyon began falling in love with one another in the Second War, but Alleria turned her back on Turalyon after the Horde invaded Quel'Thalas and killed many of her people. In the midst of battle on an alien world, can their relationship be mended? And can the Alliance expedition reach Ner'zhul in time to stop the Horde from bringing death and destruction into new worlds? Lord of the Clans by Christie Golden - https://gear.blizzard.com/us/category/books-art/warcraft-lord-of-the-clans-book This story depicts the life of Warchief Thrall, starting only a short while after Thrall was born. Raised among humans as a slave, Thrall became a master gladiator before deciding that he would escape his slavery. The story depicts Thrall's subsequent friendship with Grom Hellscream, as well as Thrall's journey to rejoin his clan and master the shamanic arts. When a disguised Warchief Orgrim Doomhammer provokes Thrall into a challenge to single combat, Thrall fights his first truly momentous battle: a fight whose consequences will change the course of history. This novel is also in print as part of the Warcraft Archive. Arthas: Rise of the Lich King by Christie Golden - Currently Out of Stock in Blizzard Store, but can be found on Amazon.com here: https://www.amazon.com/World-Warcraft-Arthas-Rise-Pocket/dp/143915760X This story explores the life and character of Prince Arthas Menethil leading up to the events of the Third War (Warcraft III) and Warcraft IIIx. As the plague of undeath ravaged Lordaeron, fear and desperation drove the prince to more ruthless measures until he had utterly lost his way. The story also explores the romance he shared with Lady Jaina Proudmoore, in addition to the unrequited love that the high elf prince, Kael'thas Sunstrider, bore for Jaina. The above stories are but the tip of the iceberg.Lylirra0 Nov 9, 2010
1m Orc's Honor So I was doing the Xe'ra flash back quest chain where you're Illidan. You use a spell Arcane Siphon that drains the life force from your allies to replenish your own. When Brox is with you, and you use the spell, he has a chance of saying the line: "You do what needs to be done. It is a admirable quality." So um, yeah about the blight hitting some grunt front liners to turn the battle in favor of the Horde...Arazlok71 1m
1m New Build Thread 4/19 Build inc, post random stuff here. Time for my weekly dose of sodium intake.Rakkrun226 1m
8m Bolvar story delopments (Spoilers) Taelia Fordragon (Bolvar's daughter), is alive an introduced in BfA. With all the things that have happened in the DK campaign and mount quest its not a good sign when family member start getting story attention. To take the dnd approach at looking at this, family members exist solely for plot hooks. Thoughts?Vartus37 8m
40s If Sylvanas falls I demand that Lilian Voss become the new Forsaken leader please.Celtika3 40s
10m Old Man Grom(spoilers) Recent build just added a new model for AU Grom. Apparently he couldn’t get his back fixed before Father Time stepped up. Now his hair is white and he has a very noticeable scar on his left shoulder. http://www.wowhead.com/news=283703/battle-for-azeroth-build-26476-new-models-grommash But isn’t AU Grom supposed to be younger than his MU counterpart, what happened? WoD was only around a year before Legion, in the story. Maybe some AU time paradox thing, idk.Pyrogar44 10m
12m Garona in the Horde? She's half Draenei, and she never much liked the Horde in WC1, she'd be better off working with Khadgar.Skytotem29 12m
15m Story Forum Community Lounge 141 Link to the Archive: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8087929632 Link to the last lounge: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20762067167 Story Forum Discord: https://discord.gg/nc9stJP 1) The thread must be called "Story Forum Community Lounge" followed by its number. 2) No serious lore discussion. 3) No hating, flaming, or serious debates unless all sides wish to engage in the talk. 4) You must post these rules in the Original Post, so all can see the rules in future lounge.Threeslotbag285 15m
16m BFA's Generic Missions. Some of these seem pretty interesting. Here's the list. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...Vrokon22 16m
22m Why are there so many Blood Elves This is something that has bothered me for a while. When i think of horde, i think of mainly Orcs, trolls, and Tauren. I feel blood Elves have kind of ruined what the horde use to be. Any thoughts on why many horde players are so inclined to play Blood Elves? I want some of you to come up with some well thought out answers. Comments like "Because they are pretty" are irrelevant in my eyes.Gelun55 22m
23m Saurfang, midexpansion boss So I tried to start a lengthy thread about the five ways I thought Saurfang's story could conceivably go. Alas the forum ate it and I'm too lazy to retype it. One of the five ways though was for Saurfang to rebel or violently oppose Sylvanas and to die. At first I didn't consider it very likely, but dutifully I presented a hypothetical scenario in which it could happen and it seems more plausible the more I think about it. The scenario is thus. A disillusioned Saurfang seeks allies to overthrow Sylvanas and restore honor to the Horde. His need to accomplish this becomes all consuming and some dark power, for the sake of the story lets say Old Gods, find this allows them to manipulate Saurfang. By simply giving him the support he needs to attempt a violent overthrow of the Horde, they are able to sew discord and chaos among that faction, rendering them unable to oppose their grand-evil scheme. Saurfang's rebellion would be the Horde focus of 8.1 or 8.2 and would culminate in Saurfang's defeat and the unveiling of the identity of his benefactor. And would be sort of an inversion of the format of Mists of Pandaria. First by placing the existential world threat at the end of the expansion, instead of the middle, and also by having the popular and well liked "rebel" be in the wrong, where as the controversial and often times despised Warchief would be somewhat vindicated.Fondant21 23m
40m Sylvanas is not going too far for the Horde Orgrim Doomhammer is still revered as a paragon of orc values, even by Thrall. But even he did shady things to save the Horde, like Sylvanas is doing. Orgrim personally authorized Gul'dan to use necromancy to create the Death Knights. So you cant bash Sylvanas for using Her Val'kyr to raise new forsaken. Orgrim personally led the Orcs in burning the Forests of Quel'Thalas. So you cant bash Sylvanas for burning Teldrassil. Orgrim even personally Authorized the Dragonmaw to enslave the Red Dragons. Orgrim said that the Horde Most conquer the Entire continent to survive, mirroring Sylvanas saying the Horde needs to conquer its own continent to survive and attain peace, they must conquer Kalimdor. When it comes to Survival, what needs to be done, must be done, and even the great and honorable Doomhammer realized this.Alamarius21 40m
1h Sylvanas & the Horde, What Blizz Shoulda Done Sylvanas doing conventionally evil things that work in the Horde's favor is an okay story arch. It's something that might even justify why the Loa promoted her to Warchief. But, while Sylvanas doing "evil" things isn't so bad, the rest of the Horde knowing about it is. It demands they take action against her, which the current story simply isn't allowing, and results in a tarnishing of the Horde's identity. Ex. When Sylvanas tried to raise Eyir and make a deal with Helya, she acted alone, backed by only her own Forsaken forces. The opinions, values, and actions of the rest of the Horde were not relevant, because they did not know. You couldn't blame them for not taking action against her. But in BFA, we have her openly killing civilians (Astranaar, Stormsong), blighting the Horde's injured (Undercity), and raising the dead (Undercity, Sludge Fields). This makes the rest of the Horde look cowardly, weak, hypocritical, or amoral for refusing to defend her leadership over their own moral values. Baine/Saurfang already swore to unseat Garrosh should there ever be another Theramore/for taking the Horde down a their old paths, respectively. It's nonsensical that Sylvanas hasn't pushed the bulk of the Horde past their breaking point. Baine's already left the Horde once to side with an honorable foe over a dishonorable ally. The Horde simply should not be treated as enablers for Sylvanas running rampant over their faction's heroic idealism. It'd have been a better story if Sylvanas' tactics are covert and out-of-sight.Yagarr2 1h
1h How many members in Council of Tirisfal Is there any lore piece anywhere stating even a rough estimate of how many members the Council had, and how many of those would give a portion of their power to empower the Guardian? Some older lore stated that 7 Archmages of the council would empower the Guardian with part of their power. But a portion of power from 7 Archmages doesn't seem like enough to make the Guardians as powerful as they were. Chronicle Volume I page 150 "Sargeras unleashed his terrible might on Aegwynn, intending to destroy the Guardian who had thwarted his agents for so long" And Sargeras lost. The Guardians might here is shown to be greater than that of an Avatar of Sargeras. So in my opinion it would be more logical for the Council to have around 50+ Powerful mages as members, and they all give a large portion of their power to the Guardian. This would be the only way to account for this level of power.Ithlasis7 1h
2h Why the Horde isn't evil Its frankly way more simple than you think. I'm not going to analyze our actions next xpac, there's already enough people doing that, heck even I have done my own share. No, the reason I'm giving is a little bit more meta, but no one can't say its false. The Horde is not evil because: Nothing we have ever done has been with the intention to harm Azeroth or the rest of creation. And that's it. Seriously, all the things we have done against anyone with the intention of harm were aimed, quite frankly, against the Alliance. For this, the only brand we can be given is "Enemies of the Alliance" aside from all the other brands that accompany the player. And if anyone goes and states that because we're enemies of the Alliance then we are branded as the villain, well I'm sorry but whoever says that just doesn't have enough knowledge and understanding of the Lore to discuss it properly. For the HordeBwonran30 2h
2h Blood Prince in BfA! ... I hope it's hint for playable San'layn!Dawnsong15 2h
3h List of All High Kings Please? Hi there !! I've been trying to get more into the lore and history of WoW but something I haven't been able to find by just typing it into Google is simple a list of the "High Kings" (pretty much the Alliance's version of Warchiefs) of the Alliance listed from oldest up to the current, Anduin Wrynn. I mostly got confused because there is mention of who are the "true high kings" of Lordaeron and who are not, which I'm guessing might be because of Arthas? I'm not sure. I hope I don't sound too dumb... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm also guessing the reason why I haven't found one is because making a list would be too complicated because of some piece of lore that I'm missing? I could use some help :) Thanks in advance !! ~~Glorybe7 3h
3h Stillwater? Alive? Yep, Stillwater is still kicking and is the guy responsible for raining mindless undead during the siege of lorderaon... Despite the fact Me, Lydon and Johnny Awesome murdered the !@#$ out of him and sent his head back to Sylvanas in a box. He is also a follower, so he isn't in jail wat ta fuk sylviReallyhappy49 3h
4h Liadrin’s new armor http://www.wowhead.com/news=283686/liadrins-new-appearance-in-battle-for-azeroth She’s dropped the silver armor for Horde pride! I like it.Absalom51 4h
4h Races/Classes that don't make sense Blizzard you really need to maintain some faction/class exclusivity. Giving everyone, everything really takes it away from a lore perspective. I still can't get over the fact that Taurens can be Paladins (since Wrath). I liked that Shamans were an exclusive Horde class and Paladins an exclusive alliance class. People will complain on the forums 24/7, that's what the forums are for but you should hold your ground and create the game in your vision not what the players want all the time. Now obviously this is my opinion and I will get a lot of flak but here's a list of Races/classes that make no sense what so ever from a Lore perspective. Tauren/Paladin Undead/Monk Dranei/Monk Gnome/Hunters (really?) Goblin/Priests Worgen/Death Knights!! Now some are going to say, well this is a fantasy game but cmon... Another one I have an issue with is Gnome/warrior but they are too awesome and we should leave them :)Khalrock208 4h
6h More Viable Horde Characters So recently we've seen a lot of characters pop up Hordeside in BFA's material that don't make a lot of sense there. Garona saying "The Horde is my home" makes absolutely no sense to me Voss supporting Sylvanas spreading undeath is bizarre, even if she'd be fine living among Forsaken that've already been raised. Stillwater SHOULDN'T BE ALIVE We've seen suggestions that Belmont, Kiryn, and other Forsaken fill Voss's role, and Apothecary Lydon can and should fill Stillwater's shoes Who are some other underutilized Horde characters you'd like to see put in play so we're not stuck with characters acting bizarrely and inconsistently from their past portrayals? I'd replace Garona with https://wow.gamepedia.com/Rokaro to finally give him some backstory.Skytotem13 6h
6h <SPOILER TITLE> Jaina Proudmoore ....Lord Admiral Jaina Proudmoore. Has a nice ring to it. Another step in lessening her chances at becoming a raid boss!Zerde24 6h
6h Major Forsaken characters I was thinking about this after the thread discussing Sylvanas' destiny... The Forsaken lack any developed major character other than Sylvanas herself. That is unsettling, considering they have been around since vanilla. Makes the faction seem like a horde of mindless zombies following the will of the Queen !@#$%... But the potential for interesting characters is immense! It's a pity most of them are cast aside or given the role of low-level questgivers. Some people mentioned Lilian Voss, Master Apothecary Lydon... what else? Koltira is a BE DK, not really Forsaken. I recall Galen Trollbane, who is a mere questgiver in Arathi Highlands. Plenty of room for development there. Which other underused Forsaken characters can you remember?Dathrandir17 6h
7h Why Sylvanas WON'T be Garrosh 2.0 For Horde players, the biggest worry heading into BFA is that the Horde's storyline is just going to be a retread of the one it got in MoP - i.e., we end up deposing our Warchief again. Orgrimmar is besieged again. So on and so forth. Saurfang calling it quits on Sylvanas's Horde certainly seems to be pointing towards that direction. But there's one slight detail that people aren't really noticing. When the Darkspear began their rebellion against Garrosh, the catalyst for it wasn't the bombing of Theramore. I mean, yeah, some of the Horde leaders thought that wiping out an entire city with a single bomb wasn't very "honorable," but all they really did at the time was file a few complaints and then carry on with business as usual. Rather, what REALLY started the rebellion was the attempted murder of Vol'jin, a much beloved Horde leader. It wasn't Garrosh's ruthless, arguably dishonorable tactics that the Horde protested to, but rather the realization that Garrosh viewed all the non-orcs as disposable tools to be used in whatever way he deems fit. The Horde didn't rise up against Garrosh until he became their problem. That's why I don't think this expansion is going to end in another Horde rebellion. Unlike Garrosh, Sylvanas knows that deliberately alienating the other Horde races would be unwise, as the Forsaken simply don't have the raw power needed to stand on their own. It's why (via the new Allied Race system) she's so interested in recruiting new races and nations into the Horde - she knows she's going to need all the help she can get. Her ruthless tactics will likely make her a divisive warchief, much like Garrosh. Hell, she's even starting her second expansion by bombing an entire Alliance settlement just like Garrosh did (except she's one-upping him by taking out an entire CAPITAL CITY instead of just a low-level quest hub), and that will likely be met with controversy, protests, etc. But the other Horde leaders aren't going to do much to stop her because, for the moment at least, she's not their problem. Now I know what you're thinking: "She refers to us as 'arrows in her quiver.' I'm pretty sure she thinks of us as disposable just like Garrosh did." Well, consider two retcons in Chronicle 3. A: Sylvanas sees a vision in Hell about how the Forsaken languished without her, making her motivations to keep the Forsaken going and her quest for immortality a little less selfish. B: The Twilight's Hammer was no longer subtly manipulating the Alliance and Horde to go to war with each other in Cataclysm. That one orc band that crashed the tauren/night elf peace party? All Garrosh. Chronicle 3 is trying to make Garrosh seem worse, and Sylvanas seem better. Which tells me that Blizzard ISN'T going to make Sylvanas the new Garrosh. There'll be some internal conflict within the Horde leadership for certain, but I don't think it's going to end in open rebellion like it did last time. We may be arrows in the Dark Lady's quiver, but a good archer takes care of her arrows. She doesn't waste them, she salvages the arrows after use if she can, and she certainly isn't going to deliberately piss off the arrows. Because without the arrows, the bow is nothing but a weird, curvy stick.Spritzie72 7h
7h My Battle for Lordearon takeways (SPOILERS) We already know how the battle progress so I'll just discuss some of the other lesser details. 1) Blizzard added a Archenai and Darkspear siege weapons. Personally it is a welcome change(and as a side note, the obvious choice because we already have background assets of these siege weapons that were not actually movable/an actual model)! The last time we had a new siege weapon was back in Wrath I believe. 2) Minus the Lightforged all the Alliance races were present. Here is the breakdown of class/race combo I sawwhat I saw: Draenei-priest and paladins Humans-footmen and rogues Gnomes-mages and rogues(well the rogues were on the Horde side) Worgens-mages and Mawlers(melee warriors I guess) Night elves-Tedrassil Archers and Darnassian Sentinels(makes me think the general night elf population managed to escape). Night elf mages(the only male night elf NPC) and druids of the claw Dwarves-riflemen Void elves-I think they were mages and priest(didnt get a good look) 3) I didnt pay as much attention to the Horde but I did see Taurens Braves, Orcs grunts, goblins sappers, forsaken archers, trolls shaman. 4) Apperently Sylvanas can launch plague arrows(I am hoping they simply add some plague wagon targets for her to shoot at because otherwise, one of her arrows could cover an entire yard!) 5) The gnomes clearly got some good screentime! 6) Glad to see Hammond Clay actually have a small role. 7) Anduin was clearly aware Sylvanas was gonna try use traps. I did notice he was quite desperate to win. 8) His "only one of us wanted this war" makes me think he is talking to Sylvanas or Saurfang(the trailer clearly showed him delivering it in Undercity)Zerde11 7h
7h Spoilers incoming Lich daddy? http://www.wowhead.com/news=283706/battle-for-azeroth-build-26476-broadcast-text-bolvars-family-teldrassil-jaina-in Whose your daddy? Apparently the Lich King. Taelia.Absalom2 7h
9h Does the Horde/Alliance know about Ashara? I'm curious if whether not Azshara's existence beanthe the seas is already a well-known fact to the Horde and Alliance? Or, if it's a just a rumor to them. Or, a strong hypothesis among them, but not confirmed.Shalaator4 9h
10h Male Elf Dark Rangers Canon https://imgur.com/a/Z9cw4s2 Look to the left of nathanos, they be male wannabe dks with bows now.Roderiick10 10h
10h How WoW ends. We find out the Titans are actually the Void Lord equivalents of the Light. The Titans recently won a war against the Void Lords and locked them up. The locks failed and the Void Lords have been able to leak into the universe. In order to fight the Void Lords the Titans need to unbalance the Universe until it fractures. The fractured universe will allow the Titans to fight the Void Lords again. The Titans unbalance the Universe by removing death and chaos from the Universe. Sargeras sees this and vows to prevent the Universe from being fractured. Sargeras forms an army to add back death and chaos which us necessary to retain balance. Titans exile Sargeras to continue their plan. All knowledge about Sargeras and Void is from Titan perspective. Chronicle is written from Titan perspective. Sargeras is good guy. Sargeras is trying to prevent titans from corrupting Azeroth. Sargeras impaled Azeroth to inject true vision to Azeroth. Illifan and Sargeras and Azeroth will defeat Titans.Ladihoodwink12 10h
11h Predict BFA's End Patch From it's basic premise, characters and ''ending'', predict what BFA's end patch will entail, NOT what you hope happens. What you expect to happen in it's enitrely, scale wise let's compare it to Argus, maybe a bit less big but overall with as much questing and narrative content. For the love of Eonar don't just troll to get a reaction out of people.Rakkrun16 11h
11h The Moat Monster Remember feeding the moat monster in Cataclysm so it knows to attack those members of the alliance foolish enough to wander into the ruins above the Undercity? Will we get to see the moat monster attack? Do we get to save our tentacled friend or will this just be yet another forgotten little detail?Thebigtuna5 11h
11h Female leaders in BfA It is a fairly interesting development that nearly all the Allied races are lead by women. Just to recap: Moria leads the Dark Irons Fareeya leads the Lightforged Alleria and Umbric co lead the void elves Mayla leads the high mountain taurens Thalysyra leads the nightborne (POSSIBLE SPOILERS) Rasztakan's daughter ends up leading the Zandalari Not to mention that aside from the aformentioned Zandalari, the Alliance counterpart kingdom, Kul Tiras is lead by Jaina's mother. Part of me is wondering if this push in BfA for more female leaders is driven by the fact female leaders have been in short supply for both factions(particularly the Horde)Zerde100 11h
11h Expanding Stormwind's Lore Hello people, I thought today I'd talk about what many people here call the boring faction. Well, despite my feelings I'd say I'd like to see some more with Stormwind, and heres how: Firstly, return older organizations of the city into the fore and actually be relevant. Knights of the Silver Hand under Shadowbreaker return with their new mogs in stormwind, Cathedral gets Silver Hand banners in it, etc. Bring back the Brotherhood of the Horse for warriors, making it a more knightly faction. And bring on the reformed house of nobles, containing governing bodies of all members of the Alliance. Then, with this, use them in actual story and make it interesting to see how they all interact. Woot, some diversity.Roderiick20 11h
11h Spoilers: Change in Extraction Don't know how many have seen this, just saw it myself but Saurfang now stays in his cell and makes no word of speaking with Aunduin: Stage 4: Honor and Loyalty Description: Release High Overlord Saurfang. Release Saurfang Flavor - Rokhan I think you best be taking this. Click on the Cell Door and then on Saurfang. Saurfang - Flavor You think you are here to take me back to Orgrimmar. Back to the Warchief. You are mistaken. Gossip What do you mean? High Overlord Saurfang says: I have stopped counting the days I have sat in this cell. But it matters not in the end. High Overlord Saurfang says: After all she had done, I will never never return to her Horde. High Overlord Saurfang says: Make sure you know the difference between loyalty and honor. High Overlord Saurfang says: And pray you never have to choose. Rokhan says: You not be comin' wit' us. High Overlord Saurfang says: We both know you are not here for me. Those you seek are down the hall. First Arcanist Thalyssra says: I see... If you are certain, High Overlord. High Overlord Saurfang says: I am. Lok'tar. Rokhan says: Come, <Name>. Dis way. Saurfang remains in his cell, while Rokhan and Thalyssra go to the next block. Does this change things for you?Arazlok148 11h
11h Horde "Navy" vs Kul'Tiran Navy This is what the Horde trying to Fight the Kul'tiran navy looks like when the Horde doesn't have Dragons to back them up. Kul'Tiras is the British in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSjmtDSm7qQ&t=0s&index=3&list=FLcwnhYkYyL6w3S8HhJ21dcgIthlasis31 11h
12h I think Gallywix should die... and the Alliance should be responsible. The idea is pretty simple. Gallywix is on site at Silithus, supervising the extraction operation that can "change everything." And he dies at the hands of the Alliance player. Maybe he dies intentionally, under the belief that killing the leader of Bilgewater Cartel will throw their extraction operation into disarray and slow down the Horde's accumulation of Azerite. Maybe he dies accidentally, caught in a conflagration caused by the igniting of unstable Azerite. Either way Gallywix should go out in a ball of fire and greasy smoke and the Horde should blame the Alliance for it. This solves the biggest problem with the story going into Battle for Azeroth, and that is justifying the massive escalation of conflict. In Silithus we're basically just seeing an Ashran style resource brawl. Sure, the resources that we're fighting over in Silithus will matter and the ones we were fighting over in Ashran did not, but we had no way of knowing that in Ashran. If the Alliance kills a Horde leader, even an unpopular one, then destroying an Alliance city in response seems like a more logical escalation and so it becomes more believable that the rest of the Horde's leadership would go along with putting Teldrassil to the torch.Fondant28 12h
12h Would Mirrored Parity Make A Better Game? If every loss and gain were perfectly mirrored, but given different skins, would that make a better game? I'm not saying "a better story" because it's fairly inorganic, but would the Horde having a "Theramore" in Vanilla, and then losing it in MoP have made the loss of the Alliance's Theramore sting less?Threeslotbag7 12h
12h Remember the robot cat? If you're Alliance you do! And if you don't want a repeat, then you should get behind the Horde players demanding that their faction be given effective motivation. Because the reason the robot cat happened is: that whole patch was superfluous to the Alliance story. And that's because the Alliance didn't need any more motivation to raid Orgrimmar and attack Garrosh. All you had to do was say "Raid on Orgrimmar" and Alliance players were in. But at some point, Blizzard realized that they had a sales job to do to make Horde players actually want to raid their own capitol and kill their own Warchief. And so that whole plot line was born, the entire purpose of which was to try to give Horde players some sort of motivation. I'm not saying that Blizzard couldn't have found something more interesting for Alliance players to do. Of course they could have. But the reason they didn't think about it was because they had written themselves into a corner with the Horde storyline and were focused on trying to write their way out of it. And that's what seems to be happening again. The Alliance story basically tells itself. Alliance players don't really need much more incentive to do what they are doing. Horde players, on the other hand... TLDR: Poor story decisions for the Horde now will lead to poor story decisions for the Alliance later.Carmageddon75 12h
13h Ban'dinoriel in BfA Since BC zones cant be changed, one way blizz could explain why Silvermoon doesn't fall to the Alliance, is that with the Sunwell restored, the Blood Elves can raise Ban'dinoriel again with it, which is an impenetrable shield around Silvermoon. Chronicle Volume 3 page 63 bottom paragraph does say it is an impenetrable shield. A dome in fact, that can prevent both land and air attack, as the Red Dragons enslaved by the Horde during the Second war could neither fly over it, nor could their powers pierce it. Not even Gul'dan and his death knights were powerful enough to break the shield. Now one might say, "but it needed the Moon Crystals to work" yes, but id imagine the Blood Elves can create new moon crystals, as their high elf ancestors created the original ones. Also, it could work without the moon crystals, but the magisters would have to manually keep casting a spell to keep the shield up.Alamarius8 13h
13h Horde Getting an Alliance Race The fans of High Elves continue to push for them. Personally I think they are due for disappointment. Blizzard clearly gave the High Elves fans what they are will to give in Void Elves. But it does set up an interesting game. If Blizzard was willing to create a political faction of a Horde race and give it to the Alliance, then the Horde would be due one of their own. So what Alliance race should the Horde get? -Humans; This is the clearly the biggest question of this exercise. In Fantasy setting humans have a special place and some people aren't interesting in playing a different species than themselves. Pros - Opens up the Horde for people who don't want to play non-humans. Cons – Humans are sometimes "too special" and can unfairly dominate the narrative. -Draenei; I think these deserve real consideration. The Draenei are at a cross-roads. The reason for the their existence, and the most defining, and limiting, force on their existence, is now gone. The have fundamental decisions to make about their direction and not everyone will agree. Some may disagree enough that they leave (like with the High Elves). Lore clearly shows that at least some blame the Legion for what happened on Draenor, so that isn't a problem. Also, one could mirror the trick with the Void Elves and have some decide that their time of unwavering dedication to the light is over. (Don't need to wait for High Elves for this version?) Pros – It would balance the "Light and Dark allied races" development the Alliance is getting. This would provide a lot more diversity to the Horde. Cons – Can't think of any, but maybe I like the idea of Void Draenei to much to think of one. ☺ -Night Elves; Some have argued they should have been a Horde race in the first place. We will have to go with the occupation of the Night Elf Zone in BfA. History shows us there are always some who would rather accommodate the new way rather than flee. As with Roman occupations. And some will even prosper and like the new way. So all they really need to be is Night Elves living in Horde lands. Pros – Share links with Tauren. In many ways there are commonalities between Druidism and Shamanism. They are also less urban and technical than Humans. Cons – Conflict with the Nightborne? -Dwarves; You guys will have to help me with Dwarves since I'm mostly drawing a blank. The Dark Iron Dwarves would have been a decent faction to give to the Horde. Pros – Orcs and Dwarves both drink like fish. Both are rude. They could give the Goblins some quality control? Cons – To technical for the Horde? Don't get along with the Goblins? -Worgen; The best way I can think of doing this is have a new way of letting feral Worgen regain control (by the Horde?). This is done in a way where Genn's Worgen reject them. Pros – Worgen always had a untapped potential to explore moral issues that has been largely ignored in the Alliance. Cons – Some people might have through wapping their head around Horde Worgen -Gnomes; Yeah, I don't see that happening.Rixlee75 13h
14h Something new semi interesting https://youtu.be/DMtEZpL5STo In the video next to Voss and Blightcaller there is a male dark ranger, just thought it was interesting. Seems Sylvanas is expanding her rangers.Absalom0 14h
14h Lightforged Magic So from the teleporter pads to the warframes Lightforged magitek seems to be totally light based. Yet these sorts of devices are normally based on arcane magic. Is it safe to assume that the lightforged artificers have learned to manipulate the Light like arcane magic?Kaidrenak4 14h
14h Alliance feels like they getting more boring The revamped Alliance intro scenario feels very off to me. (More specifically, quests right before the intro) This time, Jaina is the one to suggest recruiting Kul Tiras to the Horde. Peacefully. No taking revenge on the Horde. And no worry from Anduin that she’ll go too far. And then there’s supposedly warmongering Genn who goes along happily with it as well. So the Alliance has absolutely no drama or debate and feels very boring. I don’t know why they are doing this since Kul Tiras itself has lots of drama and characters feel like their own personalities, for instance where Jaina takes her walk of shame. I liked how the Kul Tirans reacted to her. Why can’t the Alliance be like that?Ninqjinq66 14h
14h Faction Hate Containment Thread Blizz wants the factions to hate eachother this expansion. A downside of this is it makes the community toxic as well. It seems like recently this forum has seen more and more personal attacks, with someone even calling every single person they don't like trash. So here's a containment thread to try to reduce the hatred in other threads. :D At the very least I think we can all agree that Sylvanas, Jaina, Genn, and Saurfang are going to die this expansion, because they are evil and they deserve it.Threeslotbag23 14h
15h The Saurfang Bait and Switch So, here's the thing. The Orcs went without a racial leader for two expansions before finally getting one in Legion. As confirmed via tweet (yay), Saurfang was the new Orc leader. A great choice, with a singularly underwhelming introduction to the players. Many of us wondered, for example, why Saurfang couldn't have accompanied the Horde PC to Argus, given his history with the Legion and the narrative need to firmly establish his role in the Horde. But wait! Just as we had given up hope, Blizzard released the BfA cinematic. And there he was: the Saurfang of our dreams! Totally badass, out on the frontline representing for the Horde. And this was followed up with more Saurfang in the Silithus cinematic. So far, so good. This is the Saurfang we wanted. The Saurfang we could be proud of. So Blizzard goes to all this trouble to remind us how awesome Saurfang is...and then uses him as the emblem of all that is wrong with the Horde. They offer us a glimpse of faction pride but then snatch it away by having that same character tell us that we should feel bad about being part of the Horde. It's like Blizzard is Lucy, faction pride is the football, and we're Charlie Brown. For that matter, where is Thrall? You know, the other paragon of Horde honour. Malfurion is there on the frontline for the Alliance, so how are we to interpret Thrall's absence? Does he also want no part of Sylvanas's Horde? Blizzard, you are telling us to feel faction pride, but then seem to go to a lot of trouble to make us feel badly. You've built Saurfang up as a symbol of "all that is best in the Horde" (to quote Anduin quoting his father) and then shown us that he would rather rot in prison than be part of the Horde. How are we supposed to interpret that?Carmageddon108 15h
17h Malfurion won't die in Battle for Azeroth Saurfang or Sylvanas killing Malfurion is unlikely Lets start with the novel Rise of the Horde. Before the Orcs even drank demon blood or started using magic of warlocks they were using the power of the elements as shamans to slaughter the Draenei. We all remember what happened the elements punished the orc shamans by refusing there calls thus they turned to the path of the Warlock. Granted it wasn't one Draenei. Malfurion has a lot of history and connection to Azeroth. He's purple jesus just like Thrall who is Green Jesus. His connection to Azeroth is probably second to say Magni Bronzebeard perhaps. You see it through the Well of Eternity Trilogy novels, Stormrage, Cataclysm and Legion. Cenarius even considers him to be a son. I highly doubt the even elements would be so forgiving if Saurfang or by association Sylvanas killed Malfurion. Lorewise its not a stretch to says the elements would once again stop answering the calls of the orcs, worse they could punish the Tauren, Trolls and Goblins by association for this violation. It would be a great tragedy and dishonor for the Horde. Malfurion's death could also be interpreted as the Horde being the enemy of Nature and Azeroth itself giving Cenarius, Elune and the Demi-gods just cause to side with the Alliance. Malfurion's death would guarantee there could never be peace between the Alliance and the Horde. The Night Elves would never let it go. It would be Grom killing Cenarius all over again the difference would be never ending war. Even Grom Hellscream in the novel Beyond the Dark Portal wanted something better for his people then endless war. Malfurion has too much in his corner. The best Saurfang and Sylvanas should aim for is taking out of the fight but killing him would be a disaster. To be honest though it should never get to that point anyways. I'd expect nature and or Elune to step in and save him before he could be in any real danger anyways. Unless Blizzard plans on pissing on Warcraft Lore.Arclight75 17h
18h The epic show down I want in BFA. I *need* a Thrall vs Jaina show down. Two old friends who once trusted each other (Do they still trust each other) and had a great deal of respect and were the original original gangstas. They go back since WC3 and faced the legion together and defeated them then. During Legion I hoped that Thrall and Jaina would reunite and talk.. but now. Now... I want a show down of these two friends working out their angers on each other. Their failures, lost hopes, and how the factions are back at again. I want Jaina to actually *confront* Thrall about stepping down and how it's been *nothing* good. What Thrall wanted for the Horde.... "All members of the Horde are equal in my eyes, <name>. We have all suffered many burdens, and if it were not for wisdom and honor, then we would be no better than the Scourge or my people while our blood was tainted by the demon Mannoroth. It is your duty to aid the Horde and to defend our way of life. But it is also your duty to know when quarter and compassion should be given to friend and foe alike. Understand this well. This is the new Horde, not some demon-spawned army who lack freewill." - Thrall. But yet this is what we have been for two entire expansion. We've been the army for one insane racist jack-!@# and while I understand what Sylvanas is *trying* to do... But this is not the OG wanted for his people. This is the perfect time for Saurfang, Jaina, and maybe more OG members to meet and have a confrontation. Even have Tyrande and Malf meet up to since they were also there working along side the Horde and the Alliance during WC3. Please make it happen. <3 PS: Maybe not even a confrontation but a secret gathering of the OG from the original WC3 alliance behind King Anduin and Warchief Sylvanas to plot to get things back to a some-what working/stable alliance.Burtac29 18h