Story Forum

Oct 26, 2010 Welcome: Please Read! Welcome to the Warcraft Story Forum! This forum is here as a means for players to discuss the storylines of the Warcraft universe, as told in-game and through the novels, manga, comics, and short stories that Blizzard publishes. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy, so we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct ( and guidelines ( before posting. Important Reminders: Search The search function at the top of the World of Warcraft community site is extremely effective and robust. Before you create a new forum topic, please be use it to search for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer for which you are looking. Making a new thread on an existing subject can result in your thread being deleted or, if you continue to re-post the same content, the loss of your forum privileges for spamming. Rating The forum rating system can be used to promote positive discussion, demote unhelpful comments, and even report posts that violate the forum Code of Conduct. By hovering over a post you'll be presented with several options, including a "thumbs up" (Like) and a "thumbs down" (Dislike) icon. Clicking the "thumbs up" icon will rate the post up. If enough people like a post, it will gain a Highly Rated status and appear at the top of related search results. Highly Rated posts will also have a highlighted background. Clicking the "thumbs down" icon will expand a drop-down menu which will include "Dislike," "Trolling, "Spam" and "Report" options. "Dislike" will rate the post down. If enough people dislike a post, it will be darkened, and with a lot of dislikes it will be hidden completely. You can also quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of a violation. Please note that you can only rate each post once. Use your power wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community. While the community team will be moderating this forum as normal, members of the Creative Development team will also be monitoring discussions and looking for constructive feedback. Have fun posting on these forums, and good luck with your adventures in Azeroth!Lylirra1 Oct 26, 2010
Nov 9, 2010 Meet Creative Development What is Creative Development? Creative Development (CDev) is a "hub" within Blizzard, facilitating the development of ancillary products and services that tie into Blizzard's game universes. While there are several different divisions of CDev, this Warcraft Story forum focuses on the efforts of the Publishing division. What does Creative Development's Publishing division have to do with Warcraft's stories and lore? The Publishing division within Creative Development is the driving force behind every published story you've seen outside of the game: short stories, novels, comics, and manga. Who comprises the Publishing division of Creative Development? Publishing is made of two groups: Story Development: This group focuses on story idea creation, story outlining, and story development for licensed fiction, as well as for internally-written stories. Historians: This group is the repository for all Blizzard lore, providing counsel for the game development teams and the CDev Story Development group. What is the Publishing division's usual process for developing a story? Idea Generation & Outline Creation: Working with Chris Metzen and the designers on the respective game's development team, the Story Development team generates an idea and an outline for a story. The writer on the project is typically invited to our offices at this point in the project, so that they can be in on the ground floor of the story's creation. Story Development & Lore Checking: Over the course of the project, the Story Development team talks constantly with the writer, as well as with Chris Metzen and the game developers, in order to help hone the story into a Blizzard-quality tale. At the same time, our Historian team combs through the iterations of the story in order ensure that the story adheres to the universe's established canon. * Please note that the CDev Publishing division has only been fully staffed since early 2009, allowing for more resources and manpower to dedicate to each published product. What does the Publishing division hope to accomplish with this Warcraft Story forum? We'd like to give the community a chance to influence the development of our upcoming stories, so we're trying something new; this forum will serve as a direct line to our story developers. Please note that we're not looking for fully-formed stories - save those for the Global Writing Contest (which we operate and judge) - but rather we're looking for specific examples of what people like, don't like, and what they would like to see (story-wise) from us in the future. Lylirra0 Nov 9, 2010
Sep 7, 2018 Read This Before You Post For whatever reason, this forum is seeing a massive influx of new posters. Whether it's due to the imminent launch of an expansion (and the tidal wave of lore accompanying it) or just a surge of passion, I feel like I need to reiterate some ground rules and common courtesies. 1). Be Objective! Do not come into this forum and make threads that begin with "So and so is such a terrible character" or loaded questions with heavy bias, i.e. "Why is the Horde so evil?" Doing so is just going to incite other posters an inevitably turn the thread into a flame war. On certain occasions this can also be grounds for disciplinary action. Play nice and keep an open mind. We're here to discuss story elements, not argue over opinions. Try to think like a writer. This is especially true for highly controversial topics like the Forsaken. 2). This Forum Is Not For Fan-Made Fiction! Despite what the name may imply, the Story Forum is not for sharing or discussing fan-made material. It is for discussing officially sanctioned lore/stories only. In short, if it doesn't have a Blizzard logo, it doesn't belong here. That doesn't mean you're forbidden from linking any fiction you may have written (it can be useful in explaining your position on a topic, for instance) or posting the odd paragraph; however, copying large amounts of text or creating threads specifically for any fiction you've written will be deleted or moved. If you want to discuss your own material please take it to the fine folks at the World's End Tavern Forum (otherwise known as the RP forum): 3). If You Have A Question, Chances Are Someone Else Has Already Asked It World of Warcraft has a lot of content, and the expanded universe of Warcraft as a whole has even more. However, there are several very popular topics that get addressed again and again. Before you create a new thread please check through the past few pages to see if there's already an existing thread on your topic. Not only does this keep the forum nice and tidy but it benefits you as well. Long threads tend to already have a very healthy discussion of its topic, and you may find through reading it that your particular insight has already been brought up, discussed, and concluded. If not, it's always better to stimulate an existing discussion than to try and start a new one from scratch. Don't worry, those of us who frequent this forum do carefully read each others posts. You don't need to start a new thread to draw attention. Furthermore, the regulars of this forum get very sick of answering the same questions all day long. I know the Search function hasn't always been the kindest tool, but again please take a few moments to quickly browse through the first few pages. 4). We Are Not Your Personal Encyclopedia On that note, this is not a Q&A forum. Think of it like a book club. You wouldn't show up to your group meeting and then start asking everyone what happened in the last chapter. You're expected to do your own research before coming here and opening topics for discussion. If you're looking for some direction there are many very helpful resources at your disposal: The Story Starter Guide, a sticky at the top of this forum. It includes information and links to out-of-game novels that are a great investment if you're interested in the lore of Warcraft: WoWPedia (formally WoWWiki), a crowd-sourced wiki on nearly everything you could possibly want to know about the Warcraft universe. A superb first-stop and excellent reference material for discussions: TvTropes, while not specific to Warcraft or Blizzard, is a great way to familiarize yourself with various writing or storytelling techniques. Potentially confusing points in the story of Warcraft can seem much more approachable when you realize it's all just part of a larger plan, and many posters on this forum like to reference popular tropes. Be warned, this website will devour countless hours of your time: That said, if there's something that's notably vague or unclear, by all means bring it up! Just avoid questions that can be solved easier and quicker with a search engine than a forum post. 5). Back Up What You Have To Say Be clear and concise with what you're trying to say and provide as much source material as is helpful. The more information you provide, the easier it will be for others to understand and respond to what you are trying to say. This is especially true for potentially obscure in-game quests. 6). This Is A Warcraft Forum Blizzard has many successful franchises with many rich, engaging stories. However, this is a Warcraft forum. Any threads pertaining to Starcraft, Diablo, or any other Blizzard product aren't allowed. Each of those games has their own forums specifically dedicated for their own lore. The Starcraft lore forum can be found here: Diablo lore can be discussed on the Legacy forum here: 7). Have Fun! This forum enjoys a very close relationship with its posters. Everyone here loves the work that Blizzard does, and on some level yearns to make it better. So be respectful to your fellow posters and don't make inflammatory attacks against Blizzard or members of its staff. This forum has a rather unique dynamic that is much... healthier than other forums, so don't come in here with a poisonous attitude. New ideas or insights are always welcome, as are humor and witty banter. Engage in topics that you find really exciting, but don't openly scoff at those that don't. Don't be afraid to change your mind. The past, present, and future are all fair game. Just be mindful of the rules and common courtesies, and above all else, have fun geeking out. Oh, and the Like and Dislike buttons exist for a reason!Odok116 Sep 7, 2018
Nov 9, 2010 Story Starter Guide Looking for more Warcraft information, but don't know where to start? Whether you've played Warcraft I, II, or III, these books will showcase the people and events that have shaped the Warcraft universe over the last few (in-game) decades: Rise of the Horde by Christie Golden - Set before the orcs invade Azeroth for the first time, this story explores what the orc race was like before its clans were forged into a single savage Horde under the influence of the demonic Burning Legion. Part of the novel focuses on the orc Orgrim Doomhammer and his childhood friend, Durotan (who would later become Thrall's father). Other parts of the story depict the aging shaman Ner'zhul; his ambitious apprentice, Gul'dan; the mighty Grommash Hellscream; the wise draenei leader, Velen; and several other significant characters. The Last Guardian by Jeff Grubb - This is a good introduction to older human history in Warcraft, with emphasis on the events of the First War (Warcraft I). Medivh, the Guardian of Tirisfal, decides to take on an apprentice: the young mage Khadgar. As time goes on, Khadgar learns that a half-orc named Garona is acting as a secret emissary to the nation of Stormwind. While he and Garona try to reach an understanding, Khadgar realizes that Medivh's behavior is growing increasingly erratic. Ultimately he and Sir Anduin Lothar, the childhood friend of both Medivh and King Llane Wrynn of Stormwind, reach a terrible realization: Medivh, an incredibly powerful wizard, is under the control of Sargeras, Destroyer of Worlds, creator of the demonic Burning Legion. This novel is also in print as part of the Warcraft Archive. Beyond the Dark Portal by Aaron Rosenberg and Christie Golden – Currently Out of Stock in Blizzard Store, but can be found on here: This is a good introduction to Alliance and Horde history during the events of Warcraft IIx. Instead of starting a new war, the shaman Ner'zhul has decided to open dimensional rifts from the orc homeworld of Draenor into fresh new worlds to conquer. Horrified at the possibility, Sir Lothar's former lieutenant, the human paladin Turalyon, leads an Alliance expedition into Draenor to stop Ner'zhul. With Turalyon are the mage Khadgar and the ranger Alleria Windrunner (the older sister of Sylvanas and Vereesa). Alleria and Turalyon began falling in love with one another in the Second War, but Alleria turned her back on Turalyon after the Horde invaded Quel'Thalas and killed many of her people. In the midst of battle on an alien world, can their relationship be mended? And can the Alliance expedition reach Ner'zhul in time to stop the Horde from bringing death and destruction into new worlds? Lord of the Clans by Christie Golden - This story depicts the life of Warchief Thrall, starting only a short while after Thrall was born. Raised among humans as a slave, Thrall became a master gladiator before deciding that he would escape his slavery. The story depicts Thrall's subsequent friendship with Grom Hellscream, as well as Thrall's journey to rejoin his clan and master the shamanic arts. When a disguised Warchief Orgrim Doomhammer provokes Thrall into a challenge to single combat, Thrall fights his first truly momentous battle: a fight whose consequences will change the course of history. This novel is also in print as part of the Warcraft Archive. Arthas: Rise of the Lich King by Christie Golden - Currently Out of Stock in Blizzard Store, but can be found on here: This story explores the life and character of Prince Arthas Menethil leading up to the events of the Third War (Warcraft III) and Warcraft IIIx. As the plague of undeath ravaged Lordaeron, fear and desperation drove the prince to more ruthless measures until he had utterly lost his way. The story also explores the romance he shared with Lady Jaina Proudmoore, in addition to the unrequited love that the high elf prince, Kael'thas Sunstrider, bore for Jaina. The above stories are but the tip of the iceberg.Lylirra0 Nov 9, 2010
Nov 15, 2018 Mr. Afrasiabi Sylvanas interview Can we please get a confirmation about if or if not Sylvanas was the one who planned the wrathgate attack or not? It contradicts chronicles. I am hoping this is a misunderstanding or just forgotten side of the lore because.... It entirely changes and ruins Sylvana's character ark before she kills herself in Icecrown and then dies again to Godfrey in cataclysm. The problem is not if she knew about the blight or not. But that she ordered it instead of Putriss. It diminishes everything about that cinematic entirely and the intentions that lead ahead into sieging undercity. Nobody wins here imo. Let this lore be the past. It does not improve or move the story forward for BFA one bit imo.Kalgromash3 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Uldir & Zul The story for Uldir, and to some extent Zul, has been extremely weak; which isn't exactly new for the first raid of the expansion, but Emerald Nightmare seemed to manage to break from that trend, and while Zul himself was mostly fine, and the plots of the three individual zones work well, key 110 stuff seems to fall flat. At least in my opinion. -Zul- The main problem with Zul's whole storyline is, first and foremost, that exactly why he wants Dazar, specifically, as his king is really never explained. What's so special about Dazar? Yes he's the first king, but what did he do? What are his accomplishments? His powers? Why is he such a threat to even the loa? How'd he get that strong? None of these questions are answered, nor why Zul specifically went after him. Just being first king doesn't seem like a promise of being useful either; Thoras Trollbane was the first human king, but Arthas never saw any point to raising him for conquest. And Dazar isn't specifically said to have conquered anything, and even 'warrior undefeated' is kind of meaningless without any expansion. Maybe he only ever fought a handful of wusses. There, undefeated. Another problem with Zul, and tying into Uldir, is there don't seem to be any quests covering his move into Kings' Rest. The Alliance gets the whole Jaina Campaign that leads into Siege of Boralus. I was expecting something similar for Zul and his assault on Kings' Rest, but that doesn't happen. He escapes at the end of the Zuldazar plot, going into Kings' Rest, and then suddenly he's fled Zuldazar and returns as part of the Blood Trolls. There's not covering of that transition, or even a quest sending you into Kings' Rest. Thirdly, there's nothing actually sending Horde characters into Uldir. A scenario that ends with the seal shattering, you'd think, would follow up with a quest to enter Uldir and stop the Blood God. But nope! Nothin. So the whole thing just ends up falling flat, and ultimately ends up largely wasting all the build up across Zandalar. Very poorly handled guys, even by first raid standards.Dathrel5 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Satisfying end for both factions I joined the Horde in vanilla because we were Green-Jesus' underdogs. We just wanted to live. The Alliance would have none of it. Sure we weren't perfect but it was reasonable. To return to that would be something I think most REASONABLE Horde players could enjoy. I assume Alliance players want to be classic heroes. I don't mean that to be cutting in anyway, apart from Night Elves it just seems to be the vision. I believe this will work for them as well. The Alliance wins the war and deposes the Warchief. They occupy Org but the TB still stands, as well as Zandalar and maybe SMC. Orcish peoples are allowed to live under the rule of the 'benevolent' Alliance. Perhaps Night Elves control the city and they do no kindness to the residents. The Horde is 'officially' disbanded. The Horde operates underground within Org. Eventually a resistance takes Org back at then end of 9.6 or something, maybe even 10.1. The Horde gets to be honorable underdogs again. The Alliance gets revenge for awhile. Sylvanas fanboys ragequit. The world (of warcraft) is a little bit better.Rorty32 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 New Forum Tomorrow Saw this yesterday, see you guys on the new forum! I still want signatures back!Deathisfinal172 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Warchief Saurfang: How Will Alliance React? So lets say Sylvanas steps down, Saurfang takes over, and is aggressively pro-Horde, not a "peace at any cost" green Anduin clone. He planned and executed the War of Thorns, with his goal being driving the Alliance off Kalimdor by force. The only part he disagreed with was the pointless destruction of his prize: A big tree full of hostages. If Saurfang still says that Kalimdor is the Horde's, and keeps gathering Azurite, will Anduin just give up and give it to him, or what?Hahahahahaha28 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Story Forum Community Lounge 146 Oops, I just capped the last one. Link to the Archive: Link to the previous lounge: Story Forum Discord: 1) The thread must be called "Story Forum Community Lounge" followed by its number. 2) No serious lore discussion. 3) No hating, flaming, or serious debates unless all sides wish to engage in the talk. 4) You must post these rules in the Original Post, so all can see the rules in future lounge.Dawnsong229 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Why is magatha still alive ??????Chael28 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Troll's have fur? source (pre-update): "The forest trolls' bodies can support plant life to a limited extent due to a mutation that took place many millennia ago. A thin layer of moss will inevitably grow on the skin of a forest troll shortly after they are born, giving them their characteristic green coloring. Their moss-like skin color ranges from light green to blue and purple. However, the jungle trolls' bodies are covered in a short, soft fur which cause the trolls to appear purple or gray." Apart from their head's plethora of colors I thought them glabrous and smooth for the longest time, color me pink. Speaking of pink, is that the hidden color of troll's skin? Or their blood for that matter? Perhaps they are a mundane grey and the 'fur'/'moss' gives them this complexion? Was this retconned or acknowledged in recent times? What is the community's view on this? Lorebuffs, troll-fans, and rpers: Have your say on this.Amble44 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 (Community) Attempting to Bridge the Divide I would like to preface this by saying that I do not intend to come off as pretentious or patronizing, this is just something I believe is important to having fruitful discussions here. Something I believe it is important for everyone to keep in mind is that the fans of the opposite faction are not your enemy. Too often everyone seems to treat this story like it must be a competitive sports games; routing for their team to win, the other team to lose. It is possible for their to be a story that is positive for all of us, and that is what I believe we should be advocating for. By focusing on, and taking our aggression out on the faction, we are only obfuscating genuine attempts at criticism and discourse. In my opinion, we should attempt to be as objective and fair minded as we can, address our complaints solely at those who are responsible (Blizzard), and work to come up with ideas discussions that result in mutual benefit. In the spirit of this, what I would like to suggest that we discuss suggestions for storylines and improvements, while also making a conscious effort to see if this idea is mutual beneficial to any degree. You can state story ideas that are controversial as well, just be sure to attempt to bridge the gap between the various fandoms. Personally, I think that Blizzard should spend time in an upcoming expansion setting up a new, nice home for both the forsaken and the night elves. Perhaps these new locations could serve as expansion hubs in the future. Another idea I believe would be mutually beneficial is for more groups to be shown within the factions during the story. There tends to always be a spotlight group currently, with everyone else becoming background characters, and I believe it may be beneficial to change that.Verlius16 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 What reason do they have to stay? What reason do the night Elves have to stay in the Alliance after 8.1? I am asking this seriously. Let's look at the events that just occurred. 1. Your people are genocided, an extremely large portion of your people, children and civilians, the next generation, has just been burned alive. 2. The Allies you have, the ones the genocide was committed to hit, refuse you aide and want you to wait to try to save your surviving people who are currently rounded up in literal death camps. They out right refuse you aide. 3. The head of state of one of your allies decides to unilaterally free the orc responsible for the events leading up to the genocide of your people. I repeat; Anduin decides to free one of the higher ups responsible for all the horrors that have happened to your people over the past few weeks, and he does so without consulting you, or thinking of you, at all. That's a lot to handle. Considering the Night Evles are gaining literally nothing from the Alliance(no aide and no consideration what so ever), with Anduin out right refusing her aide. And not only that but out right betraying the Night Elves by releasing a war criminal without their consent or consultation. With all of that in mind; how can the Night Elves view Anduin and the Alliance as actual allies right now? Convince me, because I'm not seeing how they stay in the Alliance after this without severe repercussions to people like Anduin and even then I dont know why they would stay.Galarion66 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Khadgar Where is he? How can he remain neutral after the Burning of Teldrassil? This is some bad writing. The Kirin Tor should be in this fight, smiting the heck outta Forsaken and Goblins, at the very least.Zarles80 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 If G’huun won...? Would he work for the void / rebuild the Black Empire? Or would he raise his own Empire since he was created by the titans and not a true Old God?Lightfang11 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Chose sides in 8.1 will destroy the Horde "Lok'tar ogar! Victory or death - it is these words that bind me to the Horde. For they are the most sacred and fundamental of truths to any warrior of the Horde. I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command. From this moment until the end of days I live and die - For the Horde!" This is the oath that every member of the Horde makes upon entering the faction. From the point of view of honor and loyalty Blizzard is exposing me to an impossible choice. If I choose Sylvannas I will lose my honor, since she fights in an abject way. If I remain on the side of Saurfang, I will betray my sacred oath, and I will also lose my honor and be an outcast unable to keep a sacred oath. The only way this quest makes sense is if Blizzard let us the opportunity to have a chainquest where we can challenge Sylvannas to mak'gora. Even if I were defeated and probably would be, this would be the only way in accordance with the Horde code of my character to preserve some honor. I do not want to pratice a plot, I do not want to be a pawn in the hands of Anduin, I want as an orc to make a decision that makes me worthy to use the Horde banner. I'm not in a game of Game of Thrones, where the narrative is to arm state coups 4 times a day, I'm in warcraft, and honor is everything in the life of an orc, without it no matter if I'm on the wrong side or right. Even because if I could have chosen before my character would have died long ago with Nazgrim in MOP.Akhinos50 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Kaldorei Revenge:How long? So now who wants to bet in how long it will take until the kaldorei get some actual revenge or spotlight? just a few things to consider: Blizzard is planning to expand the kaldorei story -blizzard has bigger plans for sylvanas (she is surviving this xpac) -faction war will probably end forever -there is a strong possibility that the nelfs aren't going to be present during the azshara confrontation. -past record: Gilneas/genn gets a crushing defeat and is forced to flee and he literally become homeless -six years later they finally got some victory/revenge/spotlight in stormheilm. ruining sylvanas plan but she isn't dead, but is something.and with the chance of recovering gilneas in the near future. -Theramore/jaina gets a crushing defeat and she essentially becomes homeless. -she wasn't even able to get the killing blow on garrosh but: -six years later she become arguably the most important alliance character in the spotlight. with some feats of strength. Teldrassil/tyrande gets a crushing defeat -they also become homeless but this time, we know that sylvanas isn't going to pay anytime soon. So.. are the nelfs supposed to wait 6 years until they get some actual revenge,spotlight, or cool things? honorable mentions:magni, turned into stone in cata, and then six years later he became relevant again in legion. gnomes, how many, 8 years? until now with mekkatorke,heritage armor,and mechagnomes. Place your bets guys. it will be this xpac, 6 years,another 14 years or never? i don't necessarily mean "revenge" but i also mean "cool things" or, something, anything at all. how long we will have to wait?Etheldald173 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 A question about raising undead Why is it that only elves and humans can be raised as undead and not other races? (Apart from death knights)Grimvald5 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 What if Sylvanas surrendered to Bwomsandi? Hypothetically, what would happen if Sylvanas surrendered to Bwomsandi and entered whatever afterlife he watches over? It seems like it would be a win-win situation for both of them - she (presumably) doesn't have to face the void afterlife / shadowlands and Bwomsandi no longer has to worry about her. I'm also assuming this would essentially end the faction war immediately. I'm not really seeing an issue with why this wouldn't work. Bwomsandi doesn't seem like he's overly picky with which souls he collects, and there's nothing explicitly stating that his realm is for trolls only. On Sylvanas's end, it's not the Halls of Valor (I assume this is where she was originally headed, based on the description in the short story), but it's not the Shadowlands either. As for everyone else, both factions seem to agree that Sylvanas is the issue, so it's a "win" (in that it simply ends the war quicker). (If she doesn't surrender willingly, there's always a death-empowered Talanji to force the issue.)Kurogasa5 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Stormheim was justified One one hand you have the Alliance fresh from the aftermath of the Broken Shore thinking they were betrayed and find plans about Sylvanas doing something sinister. On the other you have the Horde who can't be bothered to communicate about what happened and play the victim card despite their warchief trying to enslave a potential ally for selfish reasons. The Horde deserve Stormheim ten times over for being a lazy bunch!Dalfurane146 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Alliance war reparations after SoO? If they didn't get any not why wasn't it called for before the peace was agreed on? Generally unless both parties are on equal footing a peace treaty without any demands isn't signed. And no the Darkspear revolutionaries and the rest of the tattered Horde were not on equal terms with the Alliance. If they handwaved away this fact or just made the alliance absolutely stupid in order to agree with a "no reperations" treaty then the Alliance really is a faction led by morons.Kalorea30 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Nathanos mocks Night Elf Dark Rangers It seems like Blizz has no idea how to make Nelves being raised willingly to make sense, so they decided to make Nathanos mock Nelf Dark Rangers for how easily that they turn traitors.Dawnsong167 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Racial Strength I just made a Dwarven warrior, Tauren Warrior, Draenei Warrior and Orc Warrior all at level 1. I noticed that the Dwarf, Tauren, and Draenei all started with 19 strength whereas the Orc had 20 strength. From what I understand the generally understood order of racial strength in terms of lore was: Tauren = Dwarf(as they are all muscle similar to say Chimpanzee's) > Orc >= Draenei. Does this mean this order of racial strength was retconned and that orcs are now the strongest race physically?Totemfiend61 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Two Legions? So I'm fuzzy as to how the WoD timeline affected the Burning Legion. I know it created an alternate Draenor and such, but did it also create a whole new reality with its own Burning Legion, hence a new Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, Sargeras, etc?Dathretarian23 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Is Drustvar the creepiest zone in WoW? There are so many things in this zone that are creepy. A few off the top of my head: Abby Lewis a very..... strange little girl who has you participate in a “tea party”. Every part of that questline and it’s dialogue is very dark. A rare elk named gorehorn who has pieces of meat attached to his horn. Having to save Waycrests’ daughter from a witch trial (haven’t seen the end of it so don’t know how that ends actually) The entire dungeon journal of Waycrest manor dungeon.Bullwinklë83 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Tyrande: Leader of the Alliance So I'm thinking Tyrande will become the burning vengeance force behind what being part of the Alliance stands for, for the denizens of Azeroth. We have a very young, inexperianced king who was reluctant to take power, blinded by his desire for world peace and doesn't take the actions needed to retaliate against the Alliance's long-time nemesis, the Horde. Will future patches be a launch pad for Tyrande to become the burning blade the Alliance needs to win the war?Donutdreams21 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 What exactly is troll mojo? (I don't play horde much so forgive me if this is explained in game somewhere) Throughout various areas of the game, hostile trolls sometimes drop things labeled as "Mojo". For example in the various quests for Drakaru in the Grizzly Hills you have to kill Drakari Trolls for various types of mojos. What is mojo? Does it serve a purpose to trolls? Does it have anything to do with their culture? I'm interested. Let's discuss this.Kalorea19 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 does the alliance lose racial leaders? So in 8.1 we basically have another horde leader killed off and our navy sunk by Kul'tiran military grade plot armor and just to spite us Jaina escapes without us even capturing her. When do our racial leaders get to shine and make a difference instead of being out smarted and over powered by the most annoyingly written and unbearable characters in the game( Jaina and Tyrande)Galien130 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Was Tauren Druid a balance or lore decision? Do you think Taurens would have been druids if it were not for WoW and its increasing need of giving all races all clases and schools? Or do you like that this is a lore that tauren and night elves share?Alfredd25 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Why doesn't Sylvanas resurrect... *SPOILER WARNING* ... I'm curious why Sylvanas doesn't just resurrect King Rastakhan. My only guess is that the Zandalari would not approve, but since when does Sylvanas care?Boraby31 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Justifiable? I began BfA totally against Sylvanas. We just finished defeating the Burning Legion, and now we're destroying ourselves. I hated to see the Warchief running the Horde I love into the ground for some selfish, hidden reason, which I believed was to make more Forsaken. I'm halfway through the War Questline, and it's given me much to think on; especially after reading the "Good War" short story, I believe. I'm coming to the conclusion that, all things considered, Sylvanas' war was totally justifiable. She knew peace could not last and knew that she had to make a home for the Horde; she had to strike first to preserve her people. Had Saurfang killed Malfurion, she would have done that. Maybe she's not the evil villain Garrosh was; maybe, just maybe, she's actually a decent Warchief. Lok'tar O'garDathretarian64 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Saurfang Joining the Alliance? Or at least have him work alongside them to fight Sylvanas instead of rotting away in a dungeon? I say this, because something must be done to turn some orcs away from Sylvanas. After WC2 Blizzard stuck the orcs on a path that was different from their warhammer and middle earth counterparts. Unfortunately they are on the railroads now of being conquerors again, and being tools for a monster. The orcish race doesn't have a good future if Sylvanas's mission against the Alliance is a success. Saurfang should be aware of that. What if Saurfang could work/join the Alliance and take part in leading some like minded orcs away from Sylvanas's Horde? Orcs where Honor doesn't mean "Lets start wars and kill innocents". Blizzard has already made plenty of orcs now like their WC2 selves, that it would be nice change of pace for humans and others in the Alliance to get the chance to see and interact with orcs that aren't trying to kill him. Could bring some needed "tension" within the Alliance. This is important if their is ever peace again with at least some orcs and the Alliance. No I don't want "Alliance Orcs" as a playable allied race, but lore wise a faction of orcs working alongside the Alliance to make a better future for their kind, free from Sylvanas, is a good ideaDesolina98 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 A suicide misson for what? So the alliance has a suicide squad in Zuldazar for the sole purpose if providing a "distraction" in a capture mission. Those are volunteer soldiers, not convicts or undesirables. Is this why the alliance is hurting for soldiers? They just throw lives away and expect sacrifice for everything? This is no last stand like the Alamo. It's almost Soviet levels of manpower waste.Anyaceltica11 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Pandaria new character intro question I'd been gone for some time (years) before coming back around Legion. I made a new Pandaren and had some questions when you make a new one, the intro to be exact. The narrator states "Pandaria has grown colder... " Something along those lines anyway. And so I am wondering was it always like that or has something changed since the end of the MoP expansion? I just simply cannot remember because I left before the expac ended.Yelisa7 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 After Sylvanas? If/when Sylvanas is deposed, who would take her place for Lore reasons? The obvious choice is Saurfang, but would the Horde support him if he is backed by Anduin? Baine is a true Hordey and has been since the days of his father, Cairne. Lor'Themar has shown loyalty to the Horde ever since his negotiations with the Alliance fell through; let's not forget Liadrin has really stepped up to the plate to lead from the front in recent expansions, most notably at Suramar and Argus. I don't even consider Gallywix, for obvious reasons; the troll leader is too new; and the allied race leaders are too fresh-face in the Horde to be considered. So, who's next?Dathretarian1 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Terran Gregory. So much love to Night Elves. Recently, we have seen Ion Hazzikostas be positive about the Night Elves. Ion Hazzikostas: We also have a new Warfront. As I mentioned, the Alliance suffered some heavy blows in the initial events of Battle for Azeroth, but now it's time for them to strike back. As so this is actually going to be the Night Elven force and the Alliance as a whole looking to retake Darkshore. Looking to reestablish a foothold in Kalimdor within striking distance of Orgrimmar. Looking to reclaim their ancestral homelands. Ion Hazzikostas: I think we're seeing a chance for the first time to really delve into both the Night Elf culture but also their champions. As you saw in the "Terror of Darkshore" cinematic, they are feared by the Horde for a reason. And, yes, while they're in touch with nature, don't get between them and nature, certainly don't harm their homes, certainly don't harm their people. And this makes a great introduction to an interview about the "Terror of Darkshore" cinematic with Terran Gregory that is an hour long, where Terran Gregory shows so much love to the Night Elves that I wanted to present it here to people who would rather read a wall of text at their own pace: I'm going to present this roughly in the timeline of the narrative creation of "Terror of Darkshore" and I'll put timestamps of where in the actual interview he made the statements. This interview really helped me feel better about the Darkshore Warfront. Though the changes on the PTR to improve the quest content for it has been great, with Lor'danel being plagued and being left plagued, and with the inherent nature of Darkshore being retaken by each side back and forth over and over, I had found myself ultimately siding more towards disappointment with Darkshore. However, something that had me coming back to the testing going on in the PTR was all the Night Elf characters and allies that show up in the Alliance's warfront scenario proper, and even with the destruction of land and life, seeing characters like Thisalee Crow, Jarod Shadowsong, Mordent Evershade, Shandris Feathermoon, Celestine of the Harvest, Lorna Crowley, Tess Greymane, Genn Greymane, and even Maiev Shadowsong - who I strongly disliked before but we now see making amends for her passed crimes - filled me with more elation than Teldrassil's ever present husk could diminish. But this interview with Terran Gregory blew even that out of the water. Terran Gregory at 1:21: I’m Project Director for Creative Development, Story and Franchise Development for Blizzard. Terran Gregory at 41:41: It’s interesting ‘cause going back to when we were pitching this, we were pitching this long before Battle for Azeroth had come out, we were pitching before Sylvanas: Warbringers went live, before “Old Soldier,” before any of it, right? So the audience had not even yet had the reaction to the burning of Teldrassil. But, as we’ve discussed in similar medium that the burning of Teldrassil was very much supposed to do what it did. And that’s ignite a war. And it had to be big. It had to not be something that some people could objectively say “You know that, it wasn’t that bad, I don’t want to go to war,” right? It had to be something so absolutely war inspiring. And because of that, we knew, right? We knew that it was going to hurt, in a narrative sense, right? And we immediately were thinking about the next chapter. The Night Elf’s part specifically we were going to feel like you took us off guard, we were unprepared for the assault Sylvanas brang, it was devastating all the way down to our core, and where are you going to feel in the next chapter point? As so I came in, Alex [Afrasiabi] had asked us to investigate what this teaser for this patch would be, and he want it to be the Night Elves coming to Darkshore. But that was like it. That was the container by which we were going to develop this firm. And that’s when I started seeing that, like, I feel like the Night Elves are going to be coming back with for vengeance. With profound vengeance. Terrifying. They were terrifying. And when they were in their element, right?- barbaric is not the right word, right? Because they were elegant, but the ferocity of which they personified. When you’re in their territory, and the lights go out, you should afraid. And that’s definitely how we approached this film. Terran Gregory at 26:52: It’s more about the message. It’s more about, like, what’s going on in Darkshore. We enter here, clearly the Horde has taken Darkshore, right? They’re occupying Darkshore. When you occupy territory, you have to have supply lines, and when you have supply lines they’re vulnerable to attack, right? And so before there’s any major onslaught, the whole idea is that this is the first first-strike that’s made, right? So they don’t know what’s coming, they just doing their job. Right? And yes, it’s not meant to be “Oh! Okay! Look!” No. It’s the message of: They’re coming for you. And the whole, owl arrives, of course, Tyrande uses her owl for battle visibility, and so the moment that’s there they’ve been found. Terran Gregory at 31:32: I think we refer to her as the healer. Because the healer always gets taken out first. It’s like “Why did he go after the Blood Elf first?” Dude, it’s PvP, you have to go after the healer first. Before she can bubble. Just like BAM! Crit for a million. Terran Gregory at 39:06 on the shapeshifting effect for Druids: So the great thing about this effect, and I’m glad we get to talk about it, this effect specifically, a lot of times if something was, say, established first in the high-fidelity CGI pipeline, then when we go in-game we want it to match a more of an in-game style, right? We want the in-game to feel like an in-game effects, versus like if it transformed in pre-render you would imagine it would be some sort of crazy werewolf transformation, would be incredibly hyper-realistic. Actually: We went back to the first World of Warcraft cinematic and the Night Elf that’s running through the woods. So when you’re cutting this together later you can grab the video and lay it over: She’s running, she’s running, she’s running, she’s running, and she jumps, and there’s this light that goes over the body and she just immediately becomes the cat and then lands, and we used that, we used that and said, you know what, there’s an establishment in the CGI pipeline that we can easily achieve in the in-game effect and now they’re unified, right? Both her and Malfurion look just like they did, they just shapeshift into the new form. So that’s where we got the inspiration for doing that. It goes from the eyes, rolls over the face, reveals his head was where his head was, revealing the raising Malfurion. Terran Gregory at 44:45: Perhaps they’ve been pacifist for this long, right? And again, they got taken off guard. But the whole meta going on here is, you know, you poked the bear. You literally poked the bear. And for the first time, as we’ve said, since Warcraft III, their true face, the one we haven’t seen since the Night Elf armies with Sentinels of the Warcraft III encounter, they show that again, and we want it to be terrifying, and the whole setting of Darkshore, the whole setting of just like the terr- In fact, the name, “Terror of Darkshore,” was the name of the pitch. Because Malfurion is the Terror of Darkshore now, right? Everyone in the Horde army is probably talking like “Dude, you better not go out there by yourself, ‘cause this thing, this thing is going to just tear you limb from limb.” Terran Gregory at 47:59: The Druids, they’re here to win it, right? They’re not necessarily all about the rules of engagement right here. They’re about “We’re here to win.” Terran Gregory at 50:06: We definitely never wanted this troll to feel like he just flimsy or weak. Even at the beginning, right? We didn’t have him that class shell-shocked soldier. He was more so centering himself. Like this a battle-hardened individual who’s seen stuff, but had never seen anything quite like this. Terran Gregory at 51:04: And the sound designers had a field day with this. Between adding the growls, and really doing amazing sound design on his vocal performance to give it more gravity, to give it more, you know, oomph. He’s always felt much more like a wizened elder. “I’m giving the elder advice.” That’s definitely Malfurion. But to see that same voice *hiss.* It’s a great shift, right? Boom. We’re going into this here now. Terran Gregory at 54:33: And then, the wisps. …Oh… and there she is [Tyrande]. [Teldrassil] Extinguished, right? And yet, and yet, this composition is designed that even if it’s this burnt out husk, it’s what we’re fighting for. Right? We’re taking it. Even if you burn it. We’re here to fight over this. This is ours. This is our homeland. Terran Gregory at 55:22: Elune has the power to do this. We’ve established that she does. And here it is again. She calls upon it. The unnatural dark falls upon Darkshore. And it gives the Night Elves battle, you know, enhancement. Right? Flip back to Tyrande. One really cool thing about this, was, right, again, when these things are pitched everyone’s in the early phases of any given development, so we were talking about this scene, and I remember nudging Alex [Afrasiabi] and being like, “Dude, you know, what would you think about giving an armor refresh for Tyrande?” And it was so early that they hadn’t even started, like, the Night Warrior. Because the cinematics start a long back, right? And so they hadn’t really established the visual aesthetic of the Night Warrior. But we were like, “Do you think we could get something to make sure at the end here when we see her, when we finally see her that there’s like enhancement, right?” And Alex [Afrasiabi] was mere like, “Oh yeah, let me just talk to the guys,” right? And then within, you know, however long it took, sent it over, and I saw this, and I was like *gasp!* And suddenly this moment, this reveal, was that much more profound, as far as like, “I’m here.” And this is of course a call back to that classic Warcraft III image. Where the male Night Elf, female Night Elf are just standing right side by side, the Druid here, the female in front, female in front because that’s the Night Elf culture from Warcraft III, right? The Sentinels. The matriarchal society. And so she’s at that forefront, Malfurion, who we just saw how powerful Malfurion is in this whole film, but he is clearly in a position of being “second in command” here. So if he was that wicked, what is that by power of transference mean about how powerful she could be. Terran Gregory at 58:07: It’s very much Sentinel and Warden inspired. Right? And Wardens are, as we know, the keepers of vengeance. And while they were crated very specifically they’re still, you know, at their core a Night Elf institution. The concept of wielding vengeance as a weapon. And I felt that actually factored into this. This was just my feeling in putting this story together. If they are capable of being empowered by vengeance, then that means they’re more powerful after they lost Teldrassil than they were during the fight of Teldrassil. Terran Gregory at 1[hour]:07:04: Red versus blue. Red versus blue. [The red] It’s shrinking, right? [The smoke from Teldrassil] *Fwoosh* [at the Horde] It’s all “I’m coming for you like a wave.”Amadis74 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 void/light interactions revisited So as per the title, I believe that Robert Brooks really threw a wrench in the working lore universe with the way he described void/light interactions in the audio dramas. If we take his description of how the interaction works, then discipline priests should not be able to exist in the lore at all, let alone the lore pit that is lightforged shadow priests and holy void elves. Most rp'ers use the audio dramas to discredit anyone attempting to rp aforementioned race/class combos, because it is made to be understood that the light and void are mutually exclusive and can't exist within the same being at the same time (example when Lothraxion had the poison forcefully removed from him by Alleria with void magic but it caused him unbearable agony). But then something dawned on me. When the "burning" that occurred caused by Alleria and Turalyon touching each other took place , it happend to BOTH of them. Now let me tell you why this is weird. Sure Turalyon is a lightforged at this point in the story, but Alleria is simply what we would equate to a discipline priest, because up to this point she has not become what we now know as a void elf (after absorbing the fallen na'ru's essense) and has wielded the light and shadow in succession. Why did it burn her too? Wouldn't that mean that someone simply wielding the light and shadow at the same time would be made impossible? Did Robert Brooks accidentally remove the concept of discipline priests from canon? Please feel free to give any and all thoughts on the matter, and thoughts as to how this huge, gaping lore hole can be filled so that all of us lore nuts can finally get a restful night's sleep. EDIT: to pull this point home even farther with inconsistencies, the idea of void elves even existing following this logic should be more or less impossible all together. Reason: the Sunwell. The Sunwell was infused with holy energy to re-ignite it more or less, and thus the population of Silvermoon as a whole has become suffused with light energy, case in point the new in-game customization for blood elves to have golden eyes, signifying that the light has been infused into their very being. Following the light/void interactions set by Brooks, every single blood elf working on the void project should've exploded when the void attempted to infuse itself into them. If i'm wrong i would love some citing otherwise.Meshton4 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Theories on Teldrassil Supposedly the Night Elves knew that Teldrassil was going to burn, just like Sylvanas did. Are there any theories as to why? or is Sylvanas just projecting and assuming that the night elves think she will torch the place? Is there any known reason why the tree would actually need to be burned? Just looking for clarification, not a sylvanas justification theory.Mellow22 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 BfA Characters as Champions So this is another "lighten the tension" post. If we were to see an expansion add onto the roster of champions we built in Legion, who would we see from Kul Tiras, Zandalar, and the plotlines of Legion? I'll start us off. Druid - Ulfar & Wardruid Loti Priest - Grand Lector Enaara Rogue - Flynn Fairwind (more a popularity pick) Shaman - Kaz the Shrieker (old and grey... this is mainly a me thing)Grandblade14 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Why are there so many Naga? Weren't the highborne just the elite of ancient nelf society? Why is there a seemingly endless amount of naga on Azeroth?Grimvald34 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Conflicted, to support Sylvanas in 8.1? In the upcoming patch, 8.1, I'm not sure what to do about Sylvanas, and I'm sharing it here for reflection. I've played all 14 years of WoW and most of it on Alliance, but I switched to Horde for the first time in earnest after I saw the video where Sylvanas and Lordaeron were attacked. In the context of that video her words spoke to me when she observed we've forgotten what it means to be strong. I felt ashamed at the war monger Greymane and the insecure boy-king. unjustly marching on the dark lady (my dwarf has had a crush on her since forever). I changed sides. I parked my Alliance characters and leveled a Highmountain Tauren. Then I learned Teldrassil was burned by the Horde, and I felt they must have a good reason, or maybe there was an azerite-like accident. When I played the initial scenario for BFA I chose not to spray Horde soldiers as I was also Horde. I saw the full video where Sylvanas tweaks out and decides to try and crush the hopes of the Night Elves by burning the tree down in addition to cutting off their seafaring logistics. And I empathized with Saurfang, always have ever since raiding ICC and fighting his son. Soon I have a difficult choice to make. I must choose which version of the Horde I want to see. And that's the problem, I want Saurfang's vision of the Horde under Sylvanas' leadership. She has always been the one to make somewhat subtle moves, a chess player rather than a battering ram. Her boldness with the Warchief title does fit. I've heard what she's done in books and I realize my perspective on what defines her is not reflected in all of her actions. I truly don't know who to back. I want redemption for Sylvanas but being asked to vote before I'm sure she can be redeemed makes me worry that choosing to support her will be siding with her moral values which I also cannot do.Grimdy70 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Neutral Factions Taking Sides With everything going on in the war between the Horde and Alliance, it seems like a terrible waste to have these Neutral Factions sitting to the side and doing nothing. For example, Sylvanas is basically LK 2.0 and has spent a lot of time rezzing the undead for her armies and plaguing/destroying healthy lands and nature. It seems so absurd that quite literally neighboring her in the next zone in WPL is the Argent Dawn and the Cenarion Circle whose sole purpose is to quell the remnants of the Lich Kings scourge and to restore the land because of both Fel and Scourge corruption. Now I'm not trying to totally one side this as Saurfang seems to be seeking out Thrall (Possibly) and if so, the Earthen Ring would surely follow Thrall. I feel there's a major dynamic being missed out by letting them sit by while the house burns down and 'everything is fine' while, at least as far as Sylvanas goes, is doing the exact thing they formed and swore to fight against... Alliance: Argent Dawn Cenarion Circle/Ashtongue Deathsworn (as an alternative due to Druids(brought in by Velen) Kirin Tor Horde: Earthen Ring Steamwheedle Cartel (Could be brought in by Gallywix)/Ogres (Not sure which are friendly with Horde atm, but an alternative to such a large entity) Thrallmar Just a few options I thought of, I know many Druids will automatically dislike my suggestion of Cenarion Circle, but with Malfurion fully invested in the war, would Hamuul be able to dissuade the Circle from opposing him in that he's justified for waging such a fierce war?Zenretsu42 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 What could unravel Anduin? Anduin has been a poised and just King attempting to make the best decisions for the Alliance. He's taken on a lot from childhood til now. But one thing I thought of with Sylvanas going around raising the dead, what if she managed to raise Tiffin? Would Anduin change and become wrathful and blind with rage? Or would he be able to manage such a terrible deed and find a way to put his mom to rest?Zenretsu84 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 When is Velen retiring? The Prophet has earned his rest after so long fleeing and fighting the Legion. Also, he sort of just stands there in Battle for Azeroth. Maybe he's daydreaming of retirement? In any case, it seems he's ready to hand the mantle of responsibility to the next generation. I'd be okay with him stepping down and allowing for a more active and involved leader that wants to be a part of Azeroth instead of just an observer. Would have loved Yrel to succeed him but, well, y'know.Rhuna24 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Can elementals use the light? The topic is pretty much it. Could Elementals, if they devoted themselves to it, use the light just as anyone else could?Totemfiend12 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 The Argus Timeline So I've been away for quite a while until recently, and I'm having trouble understanding the timeline of Argus and the Draenei in general. To my understanding, the Legion visited Argus roughly 25,000 years ago. However, I keep seeing references to 10,000 years ingame. Khadgar says it, a few draenei NPCs say it, and an item called Ancient Fishing Line has flavor text that mentions a 'ten thousand year war'. But as far as I know 13,000 years and 25,000 years are still occasionally this just a case of Blizzard not keeping track of their own timeline, or is this some kind of inconsistent retcon?Curumo9 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Is Dagran Jr. considered biracial? Or does biracial status, in Warcraft, only count among races that don't share a common lineage?Murdra16 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Sylvanas in line for an Illidan-like retcon? In the Illidan book we got a lot of, not necessarily flat out retcons, but spin put on a lot of his actions that made it so they were always done with the noble intent of eventually destroying the Legion. And that spin was likely never intended during WC3 and BC. I think something similar could happen with Sylvanas, but in a negative way. Where they add new twists on previous actions, like we may have gotten with Alex’s statement on Wrathgate. Where everything she did before was part of some plan which we don’t know of yet but hinted at Blizzcon. As an example of what they could do: when the Horde was researching the sha, in the same way we took a sha to Silvermoon, she also took one to Undercity to research the Old Gods. Something that’s not really a retcon but is absolutely not what anyone would’ve thought about.Niingdorei10 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Lady Ashvane and Sylvanas Let's try to keep it civilized here guys. I just want to know your thoughts in what could be the plan that Sylvanas has with her. And I actually thought of it at the beginning of BFA, why can't the Horde make an ally out the Ashvane company? After all the enemy of my enemy... But Lady Ashvane lost against the Proudmoore's so I really don't see why now. Any ideas in what's next in this plot?Zabriel34 Nov 14, 2018