Story Forum

Oct 26, 2010 Welcome: Please Read! Welcome to the Warcraft Story Forum! This forum is here as a means for players to discuss the storylines of the Warcraft universe, as told in-game and through the novels, manga, comics, and short stories that Blizzard publishes. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy, so we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct ( and guidelines ( before posting. Important Reminders: Search The search function at the top of the World of Warcraft community site is extremely effective and robust. Before you create a new forum topic, please be use it to search for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer for which you are looking. Making a new thread on an existing subject can result in your thread being deleted or, if you continue to re-post the same content, the loss of your forum privileges for spamming. Rating The forum rating system can be used to promote positive discussion, demote unhelpful comments, and even report posts that violate the forum Code of Conduct. By hovering over a post you'll be presented with several options, including a "thumbs up" (Like) and a "thumbs down" (Dislike) icon. Clicking the "thumbs up" icon will rate the post up. If enough people like a post, it will gain a Highly Rated status and appear at the top of related search results. Highly Rated posts will also have a highlighted background. Clicking the "thumbs down" icon will expand a drop-down menu which will include "Dislike," "Trolling, "Spam" and "Report" options. "Dislike" will rate the post down. If enough people dislike a post, it will be darkened, and with a lot of dislikes it will be hidden completely. You can also quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of a violation. Please note that you can only rate each post once. Use your power wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community. While the community team will be moderating this forum as normal, members of the Creative Development team will also be monitoring discussions and looking for constructive feedback. Have fun posting on these forums, and good luck with your adventures in Azeroth!Lylirra1 Oct 26, 2010
Nov 9, 2010 Meet Creative Development What is Creative Development? Creative Development (CDev) is a "hub" within Blizzard, facilitating the development of ancillary products and services that tie into Blizzard's game universes. While there are several different divisions of CDev, this Warcraft Story forum focuses on the efforts of the Publishing division. What does Creative Development's Publishing division have to do with Warcraft's stories and lore? The Publishing division within Creative Development is the driving force behind every published story you've seen outside of the game: short stories, novels, comics, and manga. Who comprises the Publishing division of Creative Development? Publishing is made of two groups: Story Development: This group focuses on story idea creation, story outlining, and story development for licensed fiction, as well as for internally-written stories. Historians: This group is the repository for all Blizzard lore, providing counsel for the game development teams and the CDev Story Development group. What is the Publishing division's usual process for developing a story? Idea Generation & Outline Creation: Working with Chris Metzen and the designers on the respective game's development team, the Story Development team generates an idea and an outline for a story. The writer on the project is typically invited to our offices at this point in the project, so that they can be in on the ground floor of the story's creation. Story Development & Lore Checking: Over the course of the project, the Story Development team talks constantly with the writer, as well as with Chris Metzen and the game developers, in order to help hone the story into a Blizzard-quality tale. At the same time, our Historian team combs through the iterations of the story in order ensure that the story adheres to the universe's established canon. * Please note that the CDev Publishing division has only been fully staffed since early 2009, allowing for more resources and manpower to dedicate to each published product. What does the Publishing division hope to accomplish with this Warcraft Story forum? We'd like to give the community a chance to influence the development of our upcoming stories, so we're trying something new; this forum will serve as a direct line to our story developers. Please note that we're not looking for fully-formed stories - save those for the Global Writing Contest (which we operate and judge) - but rather we're looking for specific examples of what people like, don't like, and what they would like to see (story-wise) from us in the future. Lylirra0 Nov 9, 2010
May 1, 2017 Read This Before You Post For whatever reason, this forum is seeing a massive influx of new posters. Whether it's due to the imminent launch of an expansion (and the tidal wave of lore accompanying it) or just a surge of passion, I feel like I need to reiterate some ground rules and common courtesies. 1). Be Objective! Do not come into this forum and make threads that begin with "So and so is such a terrible character" or loaded questions with heavy bias, i.e. "Why is the Horde so evil?" Doing so is just going to incite other posters an inevitably turn the thread into a flame war. On certain occasions this can also be grounds for disciplinary action. Play nice and keep an open mind. We're here to discuss story elements, not argue over opinions. Try to think like a writer. This is especially true for highly controversial topics like the Forsaken. 2). This Forum Is Not For Fan-Made Fiction! Despite what the name may imply, the Story Forum is not for sharing or discussing fan-made material. It is for discussing officially sanctioned lore/stories only. In short, if it doesn't have a Blizzard logo, it doesn't belong here. That doesn't mean you're forbidden from linking any fiction you may have written (it can be useful in explaining your position on a topic, for instance) or posting the odd paragraph; however, copying large amounts of text or creating threads specifically for any fiction you've written will be deleted or moved. If you want to discuss your own material please take it to the fine folks at the World's End Tavern Forum (otherwise known as the RP forum): 3). If You Have A Question, Chances Are Someone Else Has Already Asked It World of Warcraft has a lot of content, and the expanded universe of Warcraft as a whole has even more. However, there are several very popular topics that get addressed again and again. Before you create a new thread please check through the past few pages to see if there's already an existing thread on your topic. Not only does this keep the forum nice and tidy but it benefits you as well. Long threads tend to already have a very healthy discussion of its topic, and you may find through reading it that your particular insight has already been brought up, discussed, and concluded. If not, it's always better to stimulate an existing discussion than to try and start a new one from scratch. Don't worry, those of us who frequent this forum do carefully read each others posts. You don't need to start a new thread to draw attention. Furthermore, the regulars of this forum get very sick of answering the same questions all day long. I know the Search function hasn't always been the kindest tool, but again please take a few moments to quickly browse through the first few pages. 4). We Are Not Your Personal Encyclopedia On that note, this is not a Q&A forum. Think of it like a book club. You wouldn't show up to your group meeting and then start asking everyone what happened in the last chapter. You're expected to do your own research before coming here and opening topics for discussion. If you're looking for some direction there are many very helpful resources at your disposal: The Story Starter Guide, a sticky at the top of this forum. It includes information and links to out-of-game novels that are a great investment if you're interested in the lore of Warcraft: WoWPedia (formally WoWWiki), a crowd-sourced wiki on nearly everything you could possibly want to know about the Warcraft universe. A superb first-stop and excellent reference material for discussions: TvTropes, while not specific to Warcraft or Blizzard, is a great way to familiarize yourself with various writing or storytelling techniques. Potentially confusing points in the story of Warcraft can seem much more approachable when you realize it's all just part of a larger plan, and many posters on this forum like to reference popular tropes. Be warned, this website will devour countless hours of your time: That said, if there's something that's notably vague or unclear, by all means bring it up! Just avoid questions that can be solved easier and quicker with a search engine than a forum post. 5). Back Up What You Have To Say Be clear and concise with what you're trying to say and provide as much source material as is helpful. The more information you provide, the easier it will be for others to understand and respond to what you are trying to say. This is especially true for potentially obscure in-game quests. 6). This Is A Warcraft Forum Blizzard has many successful franchises with many rich, engaging stories. However, this is a Warcraft forum. Any threads pertaining to Starcraft, Diablo, or any other Blizzard product aren't allowed. Each of those games has their own forums specifically dedicated for their own lore. The Starcraft lore forum can be found here: Diablo lore can be discussed on the Legacy forum here: 7). Have Fun! This forum enjoys a very close relationship with its posters. Everyone here loves the work that Blizzard does, and on some level yearns to make it better. So be respectful to your fellow posters and don't make inflammatory attacks against Blizzard or members of its staff. This forum has a rather unique dynamic that is much... healthier than other forums, so don't come in here with a poisonous attitude. New ideas or insights are always welcome, as are humor and witty banter. Engage in topics that you find really exciting, but don't openly scoff at those that don't. Don't be afraid to change your mind. The past, present, and future are all fair game. Just be mindful of the rules and common courtesies, and above all else, have fun geeking out. Oh, and the Like and Dislike buttons exist for a reason!Odok112 May 1, 2017
Nov 9, 2010 Story Starter Guide Looking for more Warcraft information, but don't know where to start? Whether you've played Warcraft I, II, or III, these books will showcase the people and events that have shaped the Warcraft universe over the last few (in-game) decades: Rise of the Horde by Christie Golden - Set before the orcs invade Azeroth for the first time, this story explores what the orc race was like before its clans were forged into a single savage Horde under the influence of the demonic Burning Legion. Part of the novel focuses on the orc Orgrim Doomhammer and his childhood friend, Durotan (who would later become Thrall's father). Other parts of the story depict the aging shaman Ner'zhul; his ambitious apprentice, Gul'dan; the mighty Grommash Hellscream; the wise draenei leader, Velen; and several other significant characters. The Last Guardian by Jeff Grubb - This is a good introduction to older human history in Warcraft, with emphasis on the events of the First War (Warcraft I). Medivh, the Guardian of Tirisfal, decides to take on an apprentice: the young mage Khadgar. As time goes on, Khadgar learns that a half-orc named Garona is acting as a secret emissary to the nation of Stormwind. While he and Garona try to reach an understanding, Khadgar realizes that Medivh's behavior is growing increasingly erratic. Ultimately he and Sir Anduin Lothar, the childhood friend of both Medivh and King Llane Wrynn of Stormwind, reach a terrible realization: Medivh, an incredibly powerful wizard, is under the control of Sargeras, Destroyer of Worlds, creator of the demonic Burning Legion. This novel is also in print as part of the Warcraft Archive. Beyond the Dark Portal by Aaron Rosenberg and Christie Golden – Currently Out of Stock in Blizzard Store, but can be found on here: This is a good introduction to Alliance and Horde history during the events of Warcraft IIx. Instead of starting a new war, the shaman Ner'zhul has decided to open dimensional rifts from the orc homeworld of Draenor into fresh new worlds to conquer. Horrified at the possibility, Sir Lothar's former lieutenant, the human paladin Turalyon, leads an Alliance expedition into Draenor to stop Ner'zhul. With Turalyon are the mage Khadgar and the ranger Alleria Windrunner (the older sister of Sylvanas and Vereesa). Alleria and Turalyon began falling in love with one another in the Second War, but Alleria turned her back on Turalyon after the Horde invaded Quel'Thalas and killed many of her people. In the midst of battle on an alien world, can their relationship be mended? And can the Alliance expedition reach Ner'zhul in time to stop the Horde from bringing death and destruction into new worlds? Lord of the Clans by Christie Golden - This story depicts the life of Warchief Thrall, starting only a short while after Thrall was born. Raised among humans as a slave, Thrall became a master gladiator before deciding that he would escape his slavery. The story depicts Thrall's subsequent friendship with Grom Hellscream, as well as Thrall's journey to rejoin his clan and master the shamanic arts. When a disguised Warchief Orgrim Doomhammer provokes Thrall into a challenge to single combat, Thrall fights his first truly momentous battle: a fight whose consequences will change the course of history. This novel is also in print as part of the Warcraft Archive. Arthas: Rise of the Lich King by Christie Golden - Currently Out of Stock in Blizzard Store, but can be found on here: This story explores the life and character of Prince Arthas Menethil leading up to the events of the Third War (Warcraft III) and Warcraft IIIx. As the plague of undeath ravaged Lordaeron, fear and desperation drove the prince to more ruthless measures until he had utterly lost his way. The story also explores the romance he shared with Lady Jaina Proudmoore, in addition to the unrequited love that the high elf prince, Kael'thas Sunstrider, bore for Jaina. The above stories are but the tip of the iceberg.Lylirra0 Nov 9, 2010
37m The Horde Identity Here we are at yet another divisive time for our great faction in which we have a controversial Warchief, questionable writing, less than stellar “faction pride”, ect. I just want to hear from fellow players what they think of the current Horde. What do you think the Horde is supposed to look like? Are you more in line with Thralls horde? Garrosh? Sylvanas?(Vol’jin wasn’t warchief long enough to have an identity as Warchief lol) Why do you roll Horde? Is it for the more tribal themes of honoring the elements and ancestors or simply for the theme of surviving in a harsh world? Do you like how the current Horde is depicted? I’ve given my opinion on the matter more than a few times on the forums, so ill make it short. As a long time Horde player myself, i just think that recently they’re are simply just focusing WAY too much on Sylvanas and are not giving the other leaders enough screentime. Historically, the Horde narrative was able to give multiple leaders some spolight giving different groups of players a leader that they align with. Like some are strictly conservative Horde that align with Thralls ideals of rational, honorable, and diplomatic conduct while others like Sylvanas’s pragmatic, amoral, tactically efficient approach. Maybe people liked Garrosh’s more direct and confrontational, “take what we need”, style of leadership. Vol’jin, who’s leadership has a bit of Thrall and Sylvanas’ styles, both of strong sense of honor and pragmatism. Lor’themar’s more light humored and laid back style(from what we saw on Isle of Thunder) or Baines’ passionate and merciful approach. Gallywix’s “Whatever makes the most profit” outlook? There are so many different styles of leadership within the Horde and that’s what made me fall in love with it in the first place. Because there’s always a leader that represents your views. Nowadays, i feel like the writers are kinda just shoving Sylvanas down our throats and expecting us to like her because she’s a fan favorite, it just feels forced and artificial and atm, the character herself is doing more to damage my enjoyment of her than making me like her more. What is the Horde to you?Pyrogar185 37m
55m Before the storm discussion. (SPOILERS) Hey friends! Local lore nerd here, and I recently finished Before the Storm by Christie golden. Overall, I enjoyed the book and lore it brought with it; though after to speaking to some of my friends it seems my opinion isn't the 'general' one, some offering criticism, or talking about the things they enjoyed more so than other aspects of the story. So, I was interested in what the community had to say in regards to it, mostly things you enjoyed/didn't enjoy. (Obviously, spoilers for the book will be posted here, turn back now if you want to read it yourself.) For myself, I enjoyed the development of the forsaken as a people; for so long they had just seemed like mindless servants to the Banshee Queen; yet they were actually portrayed with free will being a forefront theme to their culture in the book; something I particularly enjoyed given my interest in Undead in warcraft. Speaking of undead, one thing I didn't enjoy was Calia Menethil being raised into what some are calling "a light bound forsaken". Undeath has always been the darker side of lore in warcraft; with those being raised by the light after death not considered to be undead in the typical sense, more like just resurrected from the dead. (Odd wording on that, I know.) Despite the fact the book emphasized that she was brought back to life by a forsaken and human priest, (who both serve the light indefinitely) they treated it somewhat like holy necromancy; which didn't feel in place at all. Another thing that has been met with "meh" responses from myself and my friends, was the plot involving the Goblin and Gnome (forgive me I cannot recall their names.) Though their story had started off well, used mostly to showcase the affects of Azerite and how it can be used; it felt like it devolved into a sappy love story that felt more like a chapter filler than an actual interesting development towards the story of BFA. Though these are just the things that I took away from the book, what about yourself?Garho43 55m
1h Illidari Third Faction Hypothetical So it's far too late for this, but when I played warcraft 3 as a kid and heard about world of warcraft, and then burning crusade, i had HOPED that a third faction would be added--illidari. they would have included blood elves, the pre-recton dreanei, naga, fel orcs(?) night elves(?), perhaps some demons who didn't serve the legion? (probably not that one) and their unique class could have been demon hunters. similarly to how, back before burning crusade launched, the alliance had the unique class of paladins, and the horde had shamans. i'm curious what people think of this idea, and how a third faction might have been fleshed out and made into the lore. they could have owned most of outland, and quel'thalas, with keal'thas being the leader of the blood elves, akama the leader of the forsaken, lady vashj the leader of the naga, illidan the leader of any night elves who had followed him as well as the faction as a whole obviously, and maybe kargath bladefist as the leader of the fel orcs who left the legion to serve illidan--and if not fel orcs, then perhaps ogres, as i think you would be hard pressed to make fel orcs as different from orcs as high elves are from blood elves now to justify them being a playable faction, especially when they are supposed to be an objectively stronger race.Padalian2 1h
1h Story Forum Community Lounge 142 Link to the Archive: Link to the last lounge: Story Forum Discord: 1) The thread must be called "Story Forum Community Lounge" followed by its number. 2) No serious lore discussion. 3) No hating, flaming, or serious debates unless all sides wish to engage in the talk. 4) You must post these rules in the Original Post, so all can see the rules in future lounge.Threeslotbag402 1h
1h Anything in lore that crossed the line for u? Anything that was so bad or something you just didn't like so much you just no longer cared for the lore that much or at all afterwards? For me it might be turning suramar into a horde city, or the existance of AU draenor. Honorable mentions: screwing over dragons in cata, making illidan a villain, making sylvanas a sunday morning cartoon villain, killing voljin.Bjoramier114 1h
1h Why don't the Forsaken revere Illidan more? We often see the claim that it was Sylvanas that freed the Forsaken. But she didn't. It is rather well known that it was Illidan that attacked the Lich King and injured him enough that his power started to wane and this was what freed the Undead that would become the Forsaken, including Sylvanas. This attack is even referenced in the in game book Civil War in the Plaguelands that can be found in the Undercity itself. Obviously Illidan himself has not shown any interest in the Forsaken, as after all, it wasn't his intention to free them. He just wanted to kill the Lich King, and their freedom just happened to be an unintended byproduct of that attempt. But nonetheless, it seems a rather surprising missed connection that could have been had there during Legion.Amadis5 1h
1h What/Who is Elune? I've seen many Discussions and Debates over this topic, and I still don't understand much. I've Heard that she is the Titan Spirit of Azeroth, I've heard she is a "Light Lord" which is apparently the Light Equivalent of Void Lords, and that She is a light Infused Void Lord. All of these Theories have holes in them and i'm looking for other's Professional Opinion. Thank you all in Advance.Alexel23 1h
2h Highborne not all equal? So my question is simple. Why did thr highborne from Dire Maul not mutate consuming the energy from the demon they had in captivity. I know the real answer blizzard lazy but do you guys have some lore reasons why?Absalom8 2h
2h Spoilers - Thoughts on Before the Storm -The book did an OK job on not making any race "bad", with the possible exception of the Goblins :-(. (Grizzek, the only Goblin character painted as a decent person, basically calls his own race bad pople.) The forsaken people get a decent boost (except for the fact that, when they talk about how some are decent people, everyone seems to have to say "but not all of them"). -Anduin is essentially the protagonist and Sylvanas is the antoginst. The pretty much makes the Alliance read as protagonists and the Horde as antagonists. They do show Sylvanas being ruthless for her people and for the Horde, not for, for example, personal revenge. But this is lost with her having to do something outrageous almost every chapter. -I don't think they are taking Sylvanas into Garrosh 2.0, but I can't say this doesn't worry me. Garrosh didn't go "around the bend" until pretty late. -Note sure what they are doing with Calia. Clearly she will be a foe of Sylvanas. And we have reason to believed the Alliance takes Lorderon. But will she rule? As what? In spite of Genns late possible epiphany, they make it clear the Alliance see the Forsaken as nothing but monsters. And Blizzard won't make the forsaken an Alliance race. (Not even "light-forged Forsaken".) So is she doomed to fail? Do they set her up as a neutral power? Is she part of the Sylvanas' "redemption"?Rixlee76 2h
2h Kil'jaeden finally succeeds Kil'jaeden and the reason for bringing Orcs to Azeroth: Around the time of Medivh's birth on Azeroth, Kil'jaeden the Deceiver sat and brooded amongst his followers within the Twisting Nether. The cunning demonlord, under orders of his master, Sargeras, was plotting the Burning Legion's second invasion of Azeroth. This time he would not allow any mistakes. Kil'jaeden surmised that he needed a new force to weaken Azeroth's defenses before the Legion even set foot upon the world. If the mortal races, such as the night elves and dragons, were forced to contend with a new threat, they would be too weak to pose any real resistance when the Legion's true invasion arrived. Kil'jaeden and the reason for creating the Undead: The orcs' failure to conquer the world for the Burning Legion forced Kil'jaeden to create a new army to sow chaos throughout the kingdoms of the Azeroth. This new army could not be allowed to fall prey to the same petty rivalries and infighting that had plagued the Horde. It would have to be merciless and single-minded in its mission. This time, Kil'jaeden could not afford to fail. It's funny how Kil'jaeden's plans echo in the latest two times the Horde have come to wage war against the Night Elves. Garrosh tried to lead the Orcs to conquer the Night Elves, and failed. But the Undead Sylvanas has come to replace him and will succeed. It's just rather funny that Kil'jaeden is no longer around to finally see his plans actually come to fruition.Amadis0 2h
2h Anduin: "It's Killing her Own Troops" Why is Anduin more concerned than the leaders of the Horde? Hell, he's more concerned about the Horde soldiers getting caught in the crossfire than Alliance soldiers who the blight sprayers are actively targeting. Hamfisting much? It seems like something that Saurfang would say considering he's standing right next to Sylvanas as the Forsaken launch the blight. In Sylvanas vo she says something along the lines of "Some Horde leaders believe my recent actions have been indiscriminate, but I understand discretion very well." Maybe that line is in response to a meeting with her leadership were some members of the Horde express their concerns, maybe not /shrug The kicker - Sylvanas seemingly receives even more support after the Battle for Lordaeron than before. We have Rexxar "Champion of the Horde" leading the Horde forces in Stormsong, Rok'han and thalyssra supporting Sylvanas efforts in Zandalar, she has the Mag'har, Garona, Voss, Etrigg, the list goes on and on and on and on. Did anyone address the blight or the animated Horde skeletons? Thoughts?Deathisfinal35 2h
3h A good faction war ending CAN happen. The factions do not necessarily need to team up at the end, and there doesn't need to be a slap on the wrist. The end result of the war could be a negotiation for each side to leave the other's continent, or at least Lordaeron and the kaldorei lands. For example, 8.2 can be Alliance beating the stuffing out of the Horde while the Horde gets in a black eye and then 8.3 is vice versa. At the end the factions claim land they occupy and the war ends without The Power of Friendship. Total dismantling of the opposite faction doesn't need to happen and both factions get their victories. This seems to be what Blizzard is implying between PvE faction war raids and pushing the total war angle harder than in MoP. This possibility seems doubted regardless.Neridon57 3h
4h Super Brutal Vol'jin Hope Dashing. Blizz were joking about their Legion murder of Vol'jin before anyone knew. Seriously cold blooded. And all those fans all being happy that Vol'jin was getting to do something finally makes it extra sad. "Oh, will he have a role on the Broken Shore?" 7 Nov 2015 @DaveKosak Happy for Sylvanas fans & that there's progress for her but I wonder about Vol'jin in Legion, is he getting something to do too? @DaveKosak Of course! He's the Warchief!! 4h
5h Anduin The Straight White Male Mansplainer. Before the Storm is the book that keeps on giving...terrible lore. There are 2 scenes (not even counting his letter) where Anduin mansplains to Sylvanas about how to be a good leader in lectures that are like a parent to a child. When they meet for the first time, he tells her that he runs his kingdom the right way and if she cared about the Forsaken as much as he does, she will do what he wants. Then when she has an arrow aimed at him after he was accidentally complicit in a coup attempt against her, he tells her that EVERYONE in the Alliance loves him, and if he dies, they will suicidally throw themselves at the Horde in his memory. Meanwhile, the Horde merely fears her so when she dies they will be like "thank god, we are free!" It's 2018, how can something this patriarchal be published?Threeslotbag29 5h
5h Orcs And Humans should be a single faction. Both races are dirt golems that the Titans gave life. Both races hate Sylvanas Both races have their racial leader in Stormwind. Why aren't these 2 brother races on the same faction already?Threeslotbag16 5h
5h are the forsaken slaves/mindcontrolled? i ask this question after seeing the forsaken questline in silverpine and then in stormheim... first in silverpine. it makes no sense how humans who were just fighting the forsaken to be raised and suddenly they swear fealty to sylvanas. and in stormheim, when you kill the forsaken npcs in the alliance quests, they sound like most of them are relieved, being freed from some kind of tormentMälthazar48 5h
5h (SPOILERS) BtS: Battle's 6/10 Prelude This is meant to be a discussion thread. After reading the book myself, I've come with a brief, arguably incomplete list of major pros and cons, as well as interesting side characters to watch for in future lore developments and some other feelings I had. PROS: +Both Anduin and Sylvanas get a fair amount of spotlight, and we're given decent insight into their motives and inner workings. +The sideplot with the Gnome and the Goblin was an interesting aside from the usual grit of the main storyline. +The idea of some Forsaken questioning Sylvanas' iron grip, and the concept of Sylvanas almost regretting their free will is an interesting plot with great future potential. CONS: -The Gnome and Goblin contribute very little to the overall story, and thus, probably could have been a separate short story. -Some of the technical aspects of the novel fall short. It really showcases that Golden struggles with knowing when a scene could go further, or has gone on too long. -The novel uses 'remember me' tropes way too much. For instance, neither Anduin Wrynn or Calia Menethil can be mentioned too long before Varian or Arthas is mentioned. At first, it is interesting. It soon becomes distracting. INTERESTING SIDE CHARACTERS: Nathanos - With the direction Sylvanas is headed, and the development being rained down upon her champion, it's becoming increasingly possible that Nathanos may find himself in a position of leadership for the Forsaken quite soon. He is shown to feel genuine compassion for the Forsaken, beyond Sylvanas' more controlling aspects. In addition, he seems to have a good understanding of the Undercity's political structure, and seems to encourage things like the Desolate Council. If he winds up being the leader of the Forsaken one day, I wouldn't be surprised or disappointed. Calia - Calia is Arthas' sister, and the amount of chaos she's sewn in but one book can make that practically as clear as day. She's got a great heart and her mind is in the right place, and with her newfound undeath, could spice up the overall quality of Forsaken storytelling. While there are major lore implications to the nature of her Undeath, I know too little about the Naaru and the Light to try and even talk about this - so one of you may want to include how much of the lore behind her transition checks out, and how much doesn't. Gallywix - It's quite sad that the leader of one of the most important factions in the game is often on the back burner, but it seems Gallywix will be moved to the front burners - and will be here to stay. This book gave us a great insight into his nature and the way he controls his people, which has been largely untouched since Cataclysm. I didn't include many more characters than these three. I wanted to included Archbishop Faol, but with the Priest Orderhall story wrapped up and his services as an ambassador to the Forsaken between the Alliance no longer needed, I doubt he'll make any more appearances outside of Calia's own arc. I also wanted to include Baine, and was genuinely going to until he was dropped like a rock from the story after Sylvanas forced him to terminate his friendship with Anduin. Speaking of dropping, this book tended to drop quite a lot of arcs - as if it realized its scope was too big and it had to narrow mid-novel. For example, Anduin completely misses out on visiting the Draenei, and despite Velen saying how much it would mean if he arrived, nobody seemed to care. In addition, Sylvanas was drawing mighty plans for an invasion of Stormwind. Instead of Azerite's discovery speeding these plans along, she never mentions them again. Other things, like pacing, serve to harm this book. Some scenes, like the one where the Gnome and Goblin die to the bomb are PERFECT. Others, like Anduin's servant Will passing away seemed to go on far too long. Further still, scenes like the slaughter in the fields went on way too quickly, with little tension. Overall, though, the book was ok. Not the best piece of writing about the Warcraft universe, but it sets up interesting side characters for future time in the spotlight. I would really like to know your input if you read the story, and even if you didn't and just don't mind spoilers.Watcherly98 5h
5h Who was originally intended to be Azerothian? Humans/Elves/Dwarves/Gnomes/Orcs/Draenei/Mantids/Nerubians/Ogres/Vrykul/Qiraji/Forsaken/Scourge/Worgen/Naga/Old Gods/Faceless Ones/Troggs..... This is only a partial list of races that were never originally intended to step foot on Azeroth. Before all of these accidents and ‘mistakes’ controlled the planet, what was there? Pandaren? Tauren? Yeah they naturally were installed by some point, but they’ve never extended beyond their specific packs in their specific habitats. Azeroth was originally designed to be a planet of Trolls. Trolls were given an entire Pangea of wilderness to conquer. Their empire spanned from coast to coast, climate to climate. Desert Trolls, Ice Trolls, Jungle Trolls, Forest Trolls, Island Trolls. Everywhere. When they built Ulduar, with the contingencies that would ‘reset’ the planet if the systemic problems occurred, they had to assume it would be Troll champions that met Algalon. They are who they left to conquer what remnants were left of the black empire. Why are Trolls such an afterthought in story design? They’re a perpetual nuisance, a small member of the Horde, and hopefully a pretty big deal in BfA. But why are Night Elves continually insinuated as Azeroth’s ancient heirs when they gave it to Trolls. A Troll is what Aman’Thul decided to be the face of the greatest planet he ever developed. Think about that.Faucheuse33 5h
8h Ji Firepaw in BfA This is why the pandaren tolerate Sylvanas.Tremac31 8h
11h Sylvanas is Racist Just putting this out there so the image of your precious queen is soiled a little further. I've never seen anyone call her out on this blatant piece of racism. Meanwhile, calling Alliance fans/characters racist is a pastime on here, so it gets a little tiring reading so much hypocrisy.Garinhalt55 11h
12h What's with Outland and Draenor? Can someone explain the lore or historical background behind having both Outland and Draenor? Are they the same planet in different timelines, different times for the same planet, or what? Don't tell me that the existence of two cities named Shattrath and Auchindoun in the same positions is just coincidence.Taemanesis9 12h
13h If you had to retcon a whole expansion Which would it be? I talked about this before, for me it would have to be WoD, not only did it suck for the game, but it did irreversible damage to the lore. Cata had some funky stuff but was never enough to make me wish it didn't exist. BFA on the other hand is getting there... especially with BTS. I really enjoyed playing through the beta zones, everything was great until the faction war stuff became a thing, seems like that's what is bringing BFA down.Bjoramier33 13h
14h Blight can't melt wood-beams teldrassil was an inside jobSamadi7 14h
14h naaru being evil... so, the only naaru that i can think about doing that crazy stuff with the draenei and orcs in draenor is xe'ra. who knows what happened to her AU part since the first war never happened and the dark portal never happened in AU azeroth. man, IMO it's obviously AU xe'ra doing this. i'm just confused about the lightbound being so zealous, because even the lightforged aren't like that... sadly the draenor story will die like this, yrel an evil minion controlled by the naaru.Mälthazar49 14h
14h Since When Has Sylvanas... Lately, but especially since we started seeing bits of Before the Storm, I've felt that Sylvanas's characterization has been drifting from what I used to think it was. But I keep saying people saying that she's no different from how she has always been portrayed. I admit I have never leveled a Forsaken, and I haven't visited the Forsaken leveling zones much in several years. So I'd like to get the perspective of people who are deeper into that particular set of lore and find out exactly when and where some of these traits first appeared. Just a couple of requests for the points below: 1. This isn't a thread about whether Sylvanas is a good person/elf/being. I'd like to avoid getting distracted by that question. This is about specific views and personality traits. In fact ... 2. Let's avoid using the word "evil." It's too vague, and anyway, there are many different flavors of evil. She can stay evil and still switch flavors. 3. Forsaken NPCs saying "Dark Lady watch over you" or "Death to the living" (etc.) isn't proof of any of these things. Those quotes say more about the NPCs than about Sylvanas herself. So with that out of the way, here's the list of questions. I'd like to know when Sylvanas started to exhibit the following traits--whether in quest text, a cutscene, a novel, or wherever. To be clear, I'm not looking for speculation as to what she was thinking or how she was feeling at various points in the story; I'm looking for linkable, quotable evidence that shows the change in her thoughts and views. 1. When did she become prone to fits of violent rage? What examples have we seen from her before now? 2. When did she start acting paranoid? What were her paranoid actions? 3. When did she start believing undeath was better than life? What did she say about it? (EDIT: Bolded because a lot of people are answering the question "When did she start believing undeath was better than death?"--and that one is pretty clear. Also, I want to know what evidence we have of her changing opinions, not just a guess at how her mind was working at certain times.) 4. This is a tricky one, I know, but let's try it: when did her goal become killing all humans and raising them as undead? 5. Another tricky one, but again, let's try: when did she start demanding blind obedience? Given that the Forsaken starting zone explicitly shows the newly raised having a choice as to whether to join the Forsaken or not, it clearly wasn't in the game from day one, so it must have started somewhere. Has she punished anyone for disagreeing with her before?Pellex54 14h
15h I hope Sylvanas kills Baine So the Tauren can get a real leader instead of Cairne's loser son. Dezco is at the top of my list. The only other item on my list is just: "Literally any Tauren who is not Baine"Orhato65 15h
15h Whereabouts of this Weapon I know for a fact that Lord Lothar had two swords he wielded during the FIrst and Second Wars, one was the Royal Sword of Stormwind - which was found by Turalyon, however the other one was never found. What happened to Lord Lothar's other sword, the Quel'Zaram? Has it ever been found?Bewakoof35 15h
16h Why are male gnomes warlocks so inept? I was just doing some WQ in Stormhiem when I found a gnome warlock that was seduced by what I can only assume is a succubus he summon. This is like the third time something bad happened to a male gnome warlock. Wilfred was bad enough then there was that black harvest council dude. Female gnome warlocks seems competent though.Zerde26 16h
17h The Five Stages Stage One: Denial "Okay, guys. Let's give the writers the benefit of the doubt, huh? I mean for crying out loud, the expansion isn't even in beta yet. This is only the prologue! You can't judge an entire work by the beginning alone." Stage Two: Anger "I don't believe it! They're making the Horde the bad guys again! They're making the Alliance the good guys again! Didn't we just do this storyline?! Yeah, with Garrosh! Come on, Blizzard! I know writing isn't your strong suit, but surely even YOU can see why this whole thing is a bad idea!" Stage Three: Bargaining "Okay, I guess I'll play the expansion. But Zandalari and Kul Tirans better be unlockable by Patch 8.0.5. If you're REALLY not gonna give us Zandalari until Patch 8.1, that's it, I'm out. I mean it, too. I'll unsubscribe and uninstall, just you watch!" Stage Four: Depression "I guess this is just the way it is. After this expansion, Sylvanas is gonna time-travel to an AU Lordaeron to team up with AU Arthas or something. And then after that, we'll get the Old God invasion expansion, where we get class order halls again, along with....I dunno, Old God Hunters, I guess. And then....yeah, Battle For Azeroth 2 - battle harder. Cuz this faction war is just destined to continue forever and ever and ever..." Acceptance "...Meh. I've already pre-ordered for Highmountain, Nightborne, Lightforged, and that little baby Tortollan pet. Might as well stay subscribed. Plus - BUMBLEBEE MOUNTS!"Jakkø69 17h
18h Using Mana from Demons why aren't blood elf warlocks (from a lore standpoint) allowed to manatap their summoned demons? I saw this occur frequently after the events of the TBC however I have not heard of blood elven warlocks utilizing this anymore. Why not? Is it not needed anymore?Caleros8 18h
1d Snap Dragons and Couatl Is there a reason snap dragons and couatl were never included in WoW? The naga use them in WC3 so I was surprised they weren't in Vanilla and there have been a lot of good times to add them since then: -BC (Vashj's naga have a big role in Zangarmarsh, Slave Pens, Underbog, Steamvault, Serpentshrine Cavern, and Black Temple) -Wrath (Vashj's naga came to Northrend in WC3, naga have small role in Borean Tundra [originally seemed like they might have more]) -Cata (naga have a big role in Vashj'ir, Throne of the Tides, and some revamped zones) -MoP (added dragon turtles which were also a WC3 naga unit) -Legion (Vashj's naga came to Broken Isles in WC3, naga have a big role in Azsuna, Eye of Azshara, and Tomb of Sargaras) Azshara and the naga will have a big role again in BfA. Do you think snap dragons and couatl could be added in the Azshara raid patch?Faelinthia9 1d
1d What does “honor” mean in WoW? Honor is mentioned a lot in regards to the Horde particularly. What though does honor include and what does it not? The Alliance even seems to have the same idea of honor as the Horde. Or at least understands it. For instance Anduin mentions how Varian understood Saurfang to be honorable and respected him for that. What though does acting honorable mean during both war and peace? Does it just mean not using WMDs and only attacking military targets? Would there be any honorable reason to initiate war against the Alliance?Ninqjinq19 1d
1d What is the story with blood elf eyes? So we're getting golden eyes in bfa for blood elves. Can someone give me an exact run down of the story of blood elf eyes? Were they supposedly golden before they were fel-green? Is golden a "light" thing? What's the scoop here?Vhay25 1d
1d Anduin vs. Sylvanas... ...who is less popular? Blizzard has written themselves into a situation where much of the player base despises both of their faction leaders, for very different reasons. But who is LEAST popular? Who will win this epic struggle? Or will it be a dark horse candidate? Tyrande? Baine (though I guess that would be a dark cow candidate)? On a serious note...the narrative has big problems when both of the supposed protagonists are widely disliked.Carmageddon44 1d
1d Does Anduin have sexual/romantic interests? I haven't read Before the Storm, but it seems like a lot of it focuses on Anduin and is mostly from his perspective. He's apparently a young adult now. Is Anduin ever shown to have any kind of sexual/romantic interests in BtS or previous books? Somewhat Related Question: I'm not crazy about both factions needing to worry about becoming evil, or protagonists committing atrocities, or characters being killed off left and right. But if the writers are going with all this sensionalism stuff, do you think they should go the full mile and give the characters more pizazz?Faelinthia87 1d
1d A rumor I heard about Yrel. When WoD came out we heard mentions of MU Yrel having a Dark Fate. One of the popular theories was that she was MU Garona's Mother, did we ever get that confirmed?Atillus5 1d
1d Was Legion a wasted expansion storywise? I should had been a global expansion, maybe a 2 expansions narrative setting with one expansion being a global invasion like Cata and the second expansion being the invasion of Argus. As of now the dreaded legion got a massive villain decay in which they could barely invade some random islands and were defeated by some random troops gathered in those islands. The invasion of Argus also felt incredibly weak IMO. The legion went from "we can barely slow Archimonde from taking over the world tree" to weaker than Deathwing.Rodruun17 1d
1d So the Alliance are the protagonists ...and we're the antagonist/sidekick faction, as the situation demands. Is there any other interpretation that can be made based upon the latest two expansions and the latest writing? Thanks, Blizzard. #factionpride!Carmageddon205 1d
1d [Spoilers] Taelia's lineage. After playing around on the beta, Taelia seems to be the daughter of Bolvar Fordragon. Which is brings up an interesting tidbit from back in Wotlk, which ill bring up in a moment. Before the Storm was just released and in it, Calia Menethil opens up to Anduin about her past and escape from lordaeran. During this she mentions she has a child with a footman, and that they were married so the child is a legitimate heir. She then goes on to mention that she doesnt know if they are alive or dead because they got seperated during the scourge invasion. So this leads me to the speculation part. What if, Calia was married to Bolvar back when she was young, and had a child, Taelia. There was a quest back on aplha that had Taelia mention her mother was from lordaeran also. Perhaps Calia got seperated from Bolvar and Calia during the invasion. Assuming she was killed, Bolvar went ahead and sent off Taelia to Kul Tiras to keep her safe while he went to Stormwind. Back to the Wotlk part. During the quests leading up to ICC after the wrathgate, you see the Lich King, aka Arthas, torturing Bolvar. He is trying to break him, but for what reason? Maybe, just maybe, Arthas was aware of Bolvar marrying his sister and having a child, a legitmate heir to the throne. And Lich King was trying to break him to find out where Calia and Taelia were to seek out and snuff the Menethil bloodline for good. Idk just a random thing i thought of while reading the Calia bit in BtS. What do you guys think? Think Taelia is the rightful heir to whats left of Lordaeran?Lamplol14 1d
1d For Tess Greymane's Sake, I hope ... (MINOR BTS SPOILER) That she wasn't in earshot when Genn said he'd be willing to die to see Liam one more time.Zuleika55 1d
1d Azurite+Blight=SUPERBLIGHT? In BTS, there's a lotta pages devoted to what happens when you mix Titan Souls with other stuff. A drop in a vial of poison makes it eat life as if it was Blight. I wondered during these scenes if it was forshadowing for when Azurite gets added to good ol' grade A Blight. Sadly, the Azurite War Maching didn't spew SUPERBLIGHT, which I think was a missed opportunity.Threeslotbag28 1d
1d Do you think it's possible for 1 faction? I have a strong feeling Blizzard is trying to make the Horde look as bad as possible to finally have the Alliance come in and place who ever it wants to lead them. It's not going to be seen as this. It will be seen as something "honorable" for the Horde to become one with the Alliance. It won't be a take over. There will be no winner. It will be a joining of friends. There will be some "wtf" moments in the merger, but ultimately everything will go down as we're all friends and we shouldn't be fighting and "For Azeroth!" Anduin will pardon everything the Horde had previously done and everyone will brace each other in welcoming arms. Would you as a player be okay with this? I think I might be okay, but the story would be pretty much over for me. I would continue to play, but I would be like most and solely play for the gameplay reasons and not care to much about the actual story.Dittrazkalok41 1d
1d BFA "Story Team" Has A Panel At E3 June 13th "World of Warcraft Storytelling: Bringing a Robust Universe to Life Through Different Mediums" will take place at 11:30 am (Pacific) on Wednesday, June 13th, and will be streamed on Facebook live. The panel participants are Steve Danuser (Sr. Narrative Designer), Terran Gregory (Project Director - Cinematics), and Christie Golden (Sr. Writer). Join members of the World of Warcraft team as they break down the tricks to bringing the World of Warcraft universe alive through story. From books, to video, to in-game storytelling, the rich narrative of WoW unfolds for fans across multiple forms of media as the team expands on the personalities that fans have come to care about. Whether you are for the Alliance, or for the Horde, stop by to get insight on the story that is still wowing people even after 14 years. WOW story panel happens at 11:30 PST.Parsley107 1d
1d Before The Storm Horde Is A Bucket Of Hatred. Every member of the Horde seems to hate every single other member and want to kill them. Sylvanas especially often thinks of murdering Saurfang, Baine, Gallywix, and the rest of the "family". Admittedly, BtS does introduce many good and honorable Horde characters, but then has Sylvanas murder them all in cold blood out of jealousy, paranoia, or just plain evil. She was probably in the right though, since when we can read their thoughts, they distrust her and see through her to her evil core. But Sylv isn't alone in being shown to be pure evil scum by Golden. Everyone in the world seems to hate Gallywix and talk about how much they hate him. Although no one seems to hate him as much as Golden. Most people agree that the best part of Before The Storm is the love story between the husband/wife Goblin/Gnome team. Some people have questioned though, why does the book spend as many pages on them as it does Sylvanas when they have literally nothing to do with the main plot. In the end, it appears that the only reason they even existed was to give readers more reasons to hate Gallywix and Sylvanas. At least if Horde NPCs want to be good, the Alliance is always there for them, especially in this book where every good Forsaken and Goblin in the world attempts to defect to the Alliance. So, when is the Horde Battle for Azeroth book coming out?Threeslotbag50 1d
1d The Alliance cannot forgive Sylvanas That is to say, I don't see how this war can end without Sylvanas being desired dead and the target of every assassin possible. The things she does are simply far too severe. Let's say the war gets interrupted by a third threat right? There's still simply no way I cannot see the Alliance attempting to kill Sylvanas the moment it is over with, perhaps even during this new threat. Is she doomed to die her final death? there's no way the Night Elves will forgive her for Ashenvale/Darkshore/Teldrassil, even Anduin I can't see forgiving her for what happens at Arathi during that meeting between faction families. She is already the cause of so much suffering, so much death, and that only is going to get worse still with her position as the Warchief and this new war. What do you guys think? If this expansion is meant to deal with the faction war for awhile then the outcome seems certain, because even if the Horde wins I cannot see the remaining Alliance just bowing down. We already know the Night Elves are gonna go absolutely mental in those mission board tasks.Hrundi106 1d
1d Sylvanus's Reason for Teldrassil(Speculation) After reading the book I think i've sussed out the motivation, at some point since Teldrassils roots are so deep the liquid form of Azerite(btw Azerite comes in 2 forms so far) Azerites going to start seeping up through the roots and the cracks in the earth. Sylvanus is going to find out because you know spys and 'PLOT' go 'oh hell no' and burn down the tree and everything from there to Azshara. So theres you 'morally grey reasonable' motivation for Garr.. I mean Sylvanus to attack your welcome.Aneira28 1d