Story Forum

Oct 26, 2010 Welcome: Please Read! Welcome to the Warcraft Story Forum! This forum is here as a means for players to discuss the storylines of the Warcraft universe, as told in-game and through the novels, manga, comics, and short stories that Blizzard publishes. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy, so we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct ( and guidelines ( before posting. Important Reminders: Search The search function at the top of the World of Warcraft community site is extremely effective and robust. Before you create a new forum topic, please be use it to search for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer for which you are looking. Making a new thread on an existing subject can result in your thread being deleted or, if you continue to re-post the same content, the loss of your forum privileges for spamming. Rating The forum rating system can be used to promote positive discussion, demote unhelpful comments, and even report posts that violate the forum Code of Conduct. By hovering over a post you'll be presented with several options, including a "thumbs up" (Like) and a "thumbs down" (Dislike) icon. Clicking the "thumbs up" icon will rate the post up. If enough people like a post, it will gain a Highly Rated status and appear at the top of related search results. Highly Rated posts will also have a highlighted background. Clicking the "thumbs down" icon will expand a drop-down menu which will include "Dislike," "Trolling, "Spam" and "Report" options. "Dislike" will rate the post down. If enough people dislike a post, it will be darkened, and with a lot of dislikes it will be hidden completely. You can also quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of a violation. Please note that you can only rate each post once. Use your power wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community. While the community team will be moderating this forum as normal, members of the Creative Development team will also be monitoring discussions and looking for constructive feedback. Have fun posting on these forums, and good luck with your adventures in Azeroth!Lylirra1 Oct 26, 2010
Nov 9, 2010 Meet Creative Development What is Creative Development? Creative Development (CDev) is a "hub" within Blizzard, facilitating the development of ancillary products and services that tie into Blizzard's game universes. While there are several different divisions of CDev, this Warcraft Story forum focuses on the efforts of the Publishing division. What does Creative Development's Publishing division have to do with Warcraft's stories and lore? The Publishing division within Creative Development is the driving force behind every published story you've seen outside of the game: short stories, novels, comics, and manga. Who comprises the Publishing division of Creative Development? Publishing is made of two groups: Story Development: This group focuses on story idea creation, story outlining, and story development for licensed fiction, as well as for internally-written stories. Historians: This group is the repository for all Blizzard lore, providing counsel for the game development teams and the CDev Story Development group. What is the Publishing division's usual process for developing a story? Idea Generation & Outline Creation: Working with Chris Metzen and the designers on the respective game's development team, the Story Development team generates an idea and an outline for a story. The writer on the project is typically invited to our offices at this point in the project, so that they can be in on the ground floor of the story's creation. Story Development & Lore Checking: Over the course of the project, the Story Development team talks constantly with the writer, as well as with Chris Metzen and the game developers, in order to help hone the story into a Blizzard-quality tale. At the same time, our Historian team combs through the iterations of the story in order ensure that the story adheres to the universe's established canon. * Please note that the CDev Publishing division has only been fully staffed since early 2009, allowing for more resources and manpower to dedicate to each published product. What does the Publishing division hope to accomplish with this Warcraft Story forum? We'd like to give the community a chance to influence the development of our upcoming stories, so we're trying something new; this forum will serve as a direct line to our story developers. Please note that we're not looking for fully-formed stories - save those for the Global Writing Contest (which we operate and judge) - but rather we're looking for specific examples of what people like, don't like, and what they would like to see (story-wise) from us in the future. Lylirra0 Nov 9, 2010
May 1, 2017 Read This Before You Post For whatever reason, this forum is seeing a massive influx of new posters. Whether it's due to the imminent launch of an expansion (and the tidal wave of lore accompanying it) or just a surge of passion, I feel like I need to reiterate some ground rules and common courtesies. 1). Be Objective! Do not come into this forum and make threads that begin with "So and so is such a terrible character" or loaded questions with heavy bias, i.e. "Why is the Horde so evil?" Doing so is just going to incite other posters an inevitably turn the thread into a flame war. On certain occasions this can also be grounds for disciplinary action. Play nice and keep an open mind. We're here to discuss story elements, not argue over opinions. Try to think like a writer. This is especially true for highly controversial topics like the Forsaken. 2). This Forum Is Not For Fan-Made Fiction! Despite what the name may imply, the Story Forum is not for sharing or discussing fan-made material. It is for discussing officially sanctioned lore/stories only. In short, if it doesn't have a Blizzard logo, it doesn't belong here. That doesn't mean you're forbidden from linking any fiction you may have written (it can be useful in explaining your position on a topic, for instance) or posting the odd paragraph; however, copying large amounts of text or creating threads specifically for any fiction you've written will be deleted or moved. If you want to discuss your own material please take it to the fine folks at the World's End Tavern Forum (otherwise known as the RP forum): 3). If You Have A Question, Chances Are Someone Else Has Already Asked It World of Warcraft has a lot of content, and the expanded universe of Warcraft as a whole has even more. However, there are several very popular topics that get addressed again and again. Before you create a new thread please check through the past few pages to see if there's already an existing thread on your topic. Not only does this keep the forum nice and tidy but it benefits you as well. Long threads tend to already have a very healthy discussion of its topic, and you may find through reading it that your particular insight has already been brought up, discussed, and concluded. If not, it's always better to stimulate an existing discussion than to try and start a new one from scratch. Don't worry, those of us who frequent this forum do carefully read each others posts. You don't need to start a new thread to draw attention. Furthermore, the regulars of this forum get very sick of answering the same questions all day long. I know the Search function hasn't always been the kindest tool, but again please take a few moments to quickly browse through the first few pages. 4). We Are Not Your Personal Encyclopedia On that note, this is not a Q&A forum. Think of it like a book club. You wouldn't show up to your group meeting and then start asking everyone what happened in the last chapter. You're expected to do your own research before coming here and opening topics for discussion. If you're looking for some direction there are many very helpful resources at your disposal: The Story Starter Guide, a sticky at the top of this forum. It includes information and links to out-of-game novels that are a great investment if you're interested in the lore of Warcraft: WoWPedia (formally WoWWiki), a crowd-sourced wiki on nearly everything you could possibly want to know about the Warcraft universe. A superb first-stop and excellent reference material for discussions: TvTropes, while not specific to Warcraft or Blizzard, is a great way to familiarize yourself with various writing or storytelling techniques. Potentially confusing points in the story of Warcraft can seem much more approachable when you realize it's all just part of a larger plan, and many posters on this forum like to reference popular tropes. Be warned, this website will devour countless hours of your time: That said, if there's something that's notably vague or unclear, by all means bring it up! Just avoid questions that can be solved easier and quicker with a search engine than a forum post. 5). Back Up What You Have To Say Be clear and concise with what you're trying to say and provide as much source material as is helpful. The more information you provide, the easier it will be for others to understand and respond to what you are trying to say. This is especially true for potentially obscure in-game quests. 6). This Is A Warcraft Forum Blizzard has many successful franchises with many rich, engaging stories. However, this is a Warcraft forum. Any threads pertaining to Starcraft, Diablo, or any other Blizzard product aren't allowed. Each of those games has their own forums specifically dedicated for their own lore. The Starcraft lore forum can be found here: Diablo lore can be discussed on the Legacy forum here: 7). Have Fun! This forum enjoys a very close relationship with its posters. Everyone here loves the work that Blizzard does, and on some level yearns to make it better. So be respectful to your fellow posters and don't make inflammatory attacks against Blizzard or members of its staff. This forum has a rather unique dynamic that is much... healthier than other forums, so don't come in here with a poisonous attitude. New ideas or insights are always welcome, as are humor and witty banter. Engage in topics that you find really exciting, but don't openly scoff at those that don't. Don't be afraid to change your mind. The past, present, and future are all fair game. Just be mindful of the rules and common courtesies, and above all else, have fun geeking out. Oh, and the Like and Dislike buttons exist for a reason!Odok112 May 1, 2017
Nov 9, 2010 Story Starter Guide Looking for more Warcraft information, but don't know where to start? Whether you've played Warcraft I, II, or III, these books will showcase the people and events that have shaped the Warcraft universe over the last few (in-game) decades: Rise of the Horde by Christie Golden - Set before the orcs invade Azeroth for the first time, this story explores what the orc race was like before its clans were forged into a single savage Horde under the influence of the demonic Burning Legion. Part of the novel focuses on the orc Orgrim Doomhammer and his childhood friend, Durotan (who would later become Thrall's father). Other parts of the story depict the aging shaman Ner'zhul; his ambitious apprentice, Gul'dan; the mighty Grommash Hellscream; the wise draenei leader, Velen; and several other significant characters. The Last Guardian by Jeff Grubb - This is a good introduction to older human history in Warcraft, with emphasis on the events of the First War (Warcraft I). Medivh, the Guardian of Tirisfal, decides to take on an apprentice: the young mage Khadgar. As time goes on, Khadgar learns that a half-orc named Garona is acting as a secret emissary to the nation of Stormwind. While he and Garona try to reach an understanding, Khadgar realizes that Medivh's behavior is growing increasingly erratic. Ultimately he and Sir Anduin Lothar, the childhood friend of both Medivh and King Llane Wrynn of Stormwind, reach a terrible realization: Medivh, an incredibly powerful wizard, is under the control of Sargeras, Destroyer of Worlds, creator of the demonic Burning Legion. This novel is also in print as part of the Warcraft Archive. Beyond the Dark Portal by Aaron Rosenberg and Christie Golden – Currently Out of Stock in Blizzard Store, but can be found on here: This is a good introduction to Alliance and Horde history during the events of Warcraft IIx. Instead of starting a new war, the shaman Ner'zhul has decided to open dimensional rifts from the orc homeworld of Draenor into fresh new worlds to conquer. Horrified at the possibility, Sir Lothar's former lieutenant, the human paladin Turalyon, leads an Alliance expedition into Draenor to stop Ner'zhul. With Turalyon are the mage Khadgar and the ranger Alleria Windrunner (the older sister of Sylvanas and Vereesa). Alleria and Turalyon began falling in love with one another in the Second War, but Alleria turned her back on Turalyon after the Horde invaded Quel'Thalas and killed many of her people. In the midst of battle on an alien world, can their relationship be mended? And can the Alliance expedition reach Ner'zhul in time to stop the Horde from bringing death and destruction into new worlds? Lord of the Clans by Christie Golden - This story depicts the life of Warchief Thrall, starting only a short while after Thrall was born. Raised among humans as a slave, Thrall became a master gladiator before deciding that he would escape his slavery. The story depicts Thrall's subsequent friendship with Grom Hellscream, as well as Thrall's journey to rejoin his clan and master the shamanic arts. When a disguised Warchief Orgrim Doomhammer provokes Thrall into a challenge to single combat, Thrall fights his first truly momentous battle: a fight whose consequences will change the course of history. This novel is also in print as part of the Warcraft Archive. Arthas: Rise of the Lich King by Christie Golden - Currently Out of Stock in Blizzard Store, but can be found on here: This story explores the life and character of Prince Arthas Menethil leading up to the events of the Third War (Warcraft III) and Warcraft IIIx. As the plague of undeath ravaged Lordaeron, fear and desperation drove the prince to more ruthless measures until he had utterly lost his way. The story also explores the romance he shared with Lady Jaina Proudmoore, in addition to the unrequited love that the high elf prince, Kael'thas Sunstrider, bore for Jaina. The above stories are but the tip of the iceberg.Lylirra0 Nov 9, 2010
28s WoW Story in One Line; The Game WoW in a nutshell challenge; I'll start. Long-standing civil war between trolls spills over into much younger civil war between titan-forged.Samadi35 28s
1m The Alliance started the war. SI:7 Operatives are killing horde heros ON SIGHT at the Silithus operation. How is this not a motive to shut their main hub at Kalimdor then?Vladimiria53 1m
2m Best leveling stories? Hi story forum! I apologize if this is a tired topic and I missed something, but I don’t have the best luck when searching the forums. I’m currently leveling a void elf hunter and a nightborne mage and I’m hoping to find the best stories to level with on both factions! I haven’t really paid much attention to quest text in a long, long time and I have the opportunity to just take my time and enjoy the story right now. Help me out? What are your favorite quest storylines in WoW? I really enjoyed the “real people” problems while questing in Westfall, but on the flip side I also love anything dragonflight so I don’t mind a variety of “vibes”. I don’t particularly enjoy entirely “goofy” questlines but if you know of some that start out a little silly and get more serious, I’d be happy to give them a try. Like I said, I haven’t paid attention to the quest text in ages so pretty much all zones in all pre-legion expansions are up. I just moved on from Westfall on my hunter and I’m mid Silverpine on my mage. Really just looking for some stories to sink into :) Thanks for the help and take care!Elsebe10 2m
9m Sylvanas is not Evil---not like you think. Sylvanas isn't making a faux-180 like Garrosh did. Sylvanas is desperate for immortality. She is deathly afraid of what she saw when she was impaled by the saronite. This is what "changed" when Cataclysm hit that people like that Argent Forsaken at Plaguewood tower refer to. She has fallen multiple times. She is intensely focused on the immortality of the Forsaken. Why? Not only because they can't reproduce but because they don't get a good afterlife, just as she saw. A fan theory is that Sylvanas intended to take over the Halls of Valor in Stormheim for her own people. Not only do the val'kyr give her people a future (Helya could probably provide those without Eyir) but they might even get an afterlife if they steal the Halls. Greymane ruined that. The REAL question is what she gave Helya for the soulcage to subjugate the Val'kyr. The answer is in that secret deal with Helya. THAT is the missing link between Sylvanas as we know her in Legion and what we will know in BFA.Benezet15 9m
14m Horde Campaign - Part 4 Thomas Zelling dies and is immediately reanimated by a Val'kyr... and looks like a typical Forsaken. It's not even about being a placeholder model, it's established in-universe that he immediately looks like a monster. That makes no damn sense. His body didn't have any time to start decomposing. We know the Forsaken look like they do because their bodies have rotted away, right? If anything, he should look close to how Nathanos now does. Another crappy oversight or a retcon for some cheap drama?Karzerus12 14m
23m Favorite Legion Zone or Instance Okay, here's something to distract people from BfA leaks. Now that we're through the expansion, what has been your favorite zone to experience? -Stormheim -Highmountain -Val'shara -Azsuna -Suramar -Broken Shore -Mac'Aree -Antorus -Krokuun -Eye of Azshara -Cathedral of Eternal Night -Arcway -Court of Stars -Darkheart Thicket -Blackrook Hold -Neltharion's Lair -Maw of Souls -Halls of Valor -Vault of Wardens -Violet Hold 2.0 -Karazhan 2.0 -Seat of Triumvirate -Emerald Nightmare -Trial of Valor -Nighthold -Tomb of Sargeras -Antorus -Hall of the Guardian -Netherlight Temple -The Wandering Island -Hall of Shadows -Skyhold -Dreamgrove -Trueshot Lodge -Heart of Azeroth -Dreadscar Rift -Acherus -Sanctum of Light -Fel Hammer ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For me personally, my favorite zone is Suramar, particularly Suramar City. Hands down, the best city in the game. It feels lived in and alive, plenty of rp spots, enemy odds, neat hidden corners and things to investigate. Favorite instance is probably Blackrook Hold. I like the Nighhold, but Blackrook Hold is just brilliantly awesome, combining Night Elves and demons with Gothic atmosphere. Out of all the class halls, while I main mage and really like the Mage hall, part of me just really likes the Sanctum of Light. It has a truly legendary feel to it.Vesiana13 23m
2h If Lordaeron was first... Most of our criticisms of the narrative would cease to exist. On the Alliance side, the complaints of the Alliance never being proactive would've ceased to exist. While it would've fostered new complaints about Anduin being aggressive, the Alliance have reasonable cause to march on the Horde and it could've easily have been used to frame a new narrative. Have Anduin bend to Genn's fear of Azerite in the hands of Sylvanas and it would've fit the ending cinematic of Legion, the Silithus questing and would've made Stormheim relevant because it's all about Genn's constant fear of Sylvanas. He wouldn't have been wrong to fear, though how would he react once the Night Elves--his people's saviors--paid the price once Teldrassil burned? How would the Night Elves react, knowing their place in the Alliance isn't as rigid as they thought? On the other hand, the Horde would've been defensive for once. The complaints about everyone being on board with Sylvanas and her crazy wacky schemes wouldn't be nonsensical as it currently stands, Teldrassil would've been rationalized as a reaction to Lordaeron. The argument about "Is it OK to abandon honor if it means victory?" would have much more credence when the Horde's defending themselves from an overwhelming enemy, the Horde would feel justified in hitting hard and hitting fast because they almost got eradicated moments ago. Garona, Rexxar and Voss would feel more meshed together and being on-board with this would still be a bit OOC but far less than at the moment. Rexxar would be back in his WC3 role of defending the Horde, Garona might see it as a necessary action and Voss might just want to see it as the humans acting like the Scarlets did.Tewdee71 2h
2h Forsaken Need A New Capital. The sheer number of them in Orgrimmar on Beta is just absurd. Probably around 500 Forsaken NPCs, easily 3x as many Forsaken in Org as Orcs. Even in Troll town there's more Forsaken than Trolls... Imagine this, every 5 inches, across the entire city: 2h
2h Updated Chronological order of WoW Novels. **As of 1/25/18 I will be updating this list with Chronicle Vol.2, Traveler(A WoW book that is meant to be a children's book but is still considered canon), and The newest addition to the series and one that I am SUPER excited for : Before the Storm by Christie Golden. Before the Storm takes place right before the events of the upcoming expansion Battle for Azeroth so get your hands on it right when it releases so you can get the juicy details of the upcoming war between the Horde and Alliance!** Alright after several hours of scouring the web I have tracked down what I am extremely confident is the full chronological order of the WoW Novels for anyone who may wish to catch up on their lore. I am not going to include the mangas,short stories, etc. on the list at the moment this is purely just the novels. (Most people including myself recommend reading them in this order as well) 1. WarCraft Chronicle Volume 1 2. Rise of the Horde by Christie Golden 3. The Last Guardian by Jeff Grubb 4. Tides of Darkness by Aaron Rosenburg 5. Beyond the Dark Portal by Christie Golden & Aaron Rosenburg 6. Day of the Dragon by Richard A. Knaak !! The War of the Ancients Trilogy takes place before Rise of the Horde but it is highly recommended that you read it after having read Day of the Dragon which is why I have the trilogy listed as 6,7,8 instead of 1,2,3. 7. War of the Ancients: The Well of Eternity by Richard A. Knaak 8. War of the Ancients: The Demon Soul by Richard A. Knaak 9. War of the Ancients: The Sundering by Richard A. Knaak 10. Lord of the Clans by Christie Golden 11. Of Blood and Honor by Chris Metzen 12. Arthas: Rise of the Lich King by Christie Golden 13. Illidan by William King 14. Cycle of Hatred by Keith DeCandido 15. Night of The Dragon by Richard A. Knaak 16. Stormrage by Richard A. Knaak 17. The Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm by Christie Golden 18. Wolfheart by Richard A Knaak 19. Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects by Christie Golden 20. Jaina Proudmoore: Tides of War by Christie Golden 21. Dawn of the Aspects by Richard A. Knaak 22. Vol'Jin: Shadows of the Horde by Michael A. Stackpole 23. War Crimes by Christie Golden Important if you plan to purchase: There are three books that will include 3-4 stories in one book I am adding them to this to help you save money so you can buy one of these rather than purchase each book individually. The name of these are: 1. World of Warcraft: Chronicles of War - Includes Rise of the Horde, The Last Guardian,Tides of Darkness, and lastly, Beyond the Dark portal 2. World of Warcraft: Archive - Day of the Dragon, Lord of the Clans, The Last Guardian, and lastly, Of Blood and Honor 3. WarCraft War of The Ancients Archive - Includes WotA(War of the Ancients): The Well of Eternity, WotA: The Demon Soul, WotA: The Sundering Extra things worth noting Several times throughout the books some of them will reference events in the other books that arent necessarily in the chronological order of which the book was published hence why this list was created to help clean that up a bit for your reading pleasure. However if anyone wants me to add the date published of the books happy to do so. If you have any other info you think I should add in that people should know please leave a comment and I will add it as soon as I can. Happy book hunting and enjoy the reading! :) **Rendford in the Story Forum made a post with this link and figured since this is a novel post afterall why not add it here for you guys to get a taste of the new book Illidan by William King which takes place after the events of Arthas: Rise of The Lich King and goes into detail Illidans plight in Outland. Its the prelude and chapter 1 of the new book enjoy! 2h
2h If the Light Has No Inherent Virtue... If the Light is an impersonal cosmic force and has no inherent virtue, then it follows that: 1. There is nothing virtuous about serving it. 2. There is nothing edgy about bending it to your will. 3. Therefore, there is no qualitative difference between "classic" paladins and old-school Blood Knights, just different attitudes. Yes or no? If no, why not?Zuleika44 2h
3h Jaina Never Stopped Fighting the Legion In the new comic, it's shown she went on ahead and took on the demons alone after her exit from Dalaran, instead of simply abandoning the fight altogether. Looks like even less ammo for pro-Hordies to use against her because they want her to die for daring to be hostile to the Horde. I love Jaina as a character. Here's hoping she has a great character arc in the next expansion.Karzerus128 3h
3h But what about Silvermoo- Blizzard: In this bold new vision, the Horde has been COMPLETELY ERADICATED from the Eastern Kingdoms! Fans: But what about Silvermoo- Blzzard: COMPLETELY ERRADICATED! Fans: Dude, I see Silvermoon. It's right there! Blizzard: Look, kid...back off, alright? Nobody even uses that city. Just be cool. Fans: That's fair. It's not like anyone uses that place. Or the Exodar. Blizzard: The Exo-wha...? Alright, kid, if you're just gonna start makin' up names on the spot-Samadi23 3h
3h Dwarf Life Span Reading through chronicles it seems like dwarves no longer live up to 200-400. The events after the war of three hammers is described to have at least 2 to 3 generations of dwarves amongst the dwarf clans with dark irons being described to be enslaved for 300 years. I'm starting to think dwarves only live from 100 to 150 at most.Thormil10 3h
3h Saurok Playable Race I cant really say much since there are other non playable races like naga with much more lore and many more fans but if they ever do decide to make another Pandaria race, it should definitely be the Saurok.Halls24 3h
3h Everyone’s favorite othe dark elves Having just recently unlocked the void elves I have come to the conclusion they are in the same boat as the blood elves were at the beginning of BC. They aren’t picking up the pieces of their civilization but they are going after power with no regard. Alleria is like the blood knights, except she did the siphoning of a dark Naruu. Then we have the void elves going after power to help their nation supposedly but well they were just looking for power. So they like the blood elves of yore get thrown out and distrusted by their former allies( who were in the right) . Now they sided with the enemy of their former allies. So the BC era blood elves are kinda around just purple and not in the right.Absalom9 3h
3h Tyrande was not mean to the Nightborne Now for some reason I keep seeing people say the reason the nightborne join the horde is because Tyrande was mean to them. I find this is generally "backed up" by poorly remembering some world quest or something else. One thing that is brought up is a world quest people say she wants the nightborne to die. This is not true. She wants more Shal'dorei to take up the fight against the legion to help take back their city. Like any good commander she is concerned about the loss of her troops, but if you are trying to liberate a city you always want the help of the locals. Then someone said she said that she wants them to die to their face, which isn't true. ... They mixed up the meaning of former and latter. She hopes they survive without the nightwell. This is just two examples of what I've seen people say. Tyrande helps to liberate suramar, there is nothing to indicate here that Tyrande would be the reason. If someone does have an example of why Tyrande is the reason, post proof of the quest text because people seem to try to cast her in the worst possible light when they attempt to remember something and mix up words. In my opinion the questline where they join the horde is going to be the reason, not because of something Tyrande did when she was liberating Suramar.Mystheal444 3h
5h Vol'jin and Bwonsamdi SPOILERS So didn't see this get brought up in it's own thread, but relations between Vol'jin and Bwonsamdi seem to be... tense. For those who don't know, Vol'jin broke some deal with Bwonsamdi which is how Zalazane was freed. After Vol'jin kills Zalazane, Talanji and Rokhan try to spread his ashes to which Bwonsamdi stops them and tells them about the broken deal, and says to bring his ashes to the necropolis, where he and Vol'jin can have a face to face. Is this setting up for a Vol'jin vs Bwonsamdi fight?Zalzim47 5h
6h lilian voss and nathanos am i the only one who feels like voss is being turned into nathanos's little pet. when he says jump she asks how high. what happened to the old anti necromancer girl who would hunt down necromancers and kill them, now she just follows nathanos around to help him find new corpses like a good little soldierWithpuppys84 6h
6h Anduin and the issue of sexuality Lowkey though, expecting Anduin to be gay just because he is the anti-thesis of masculinity is in itself kind of problematic? He’s soft, sensitive, peaceful - traditionally ideal feminine traits that saw his character as a case for blatant misogyny within the community. But this doesn’t say anything about his sexuality. Just like it doesn't IRL. You can have perfectly fierce warriors who prefer the company of men (e.g. Alexander the Great and Philippe, Duc d'Orleans), just as you can have sensitive souls who are straight as a wooden plank (e.g. Louis XVI). It feels like toxic masculinity and a convenient amnesia to other sexualities besides homosexuality and heterosexuality is somewhat perpetuated through this thinking, that because he was a “different” kind of man to his father, it automatically makes him gay? I'm not addressing the Wrathion issue here because I'm not a fan of speculating the nature of relationship between teenagers once upon a blue moon.Edalla41 6h
7h Seeing a lot of criticism about BfA lore... What's the deal? I haven't really been paying much attention, but reading through here today it looks like people aren't too happy with the "train wreck." Anyone care to explain what's going on that has people so upset?Keleste59 7h
8h I always knew Jaina was horrible I mean literally her father was skilled not even ten feet away from her. She all but lead them there.Phelios40 8h
8h Teldrassil - fleeing civilians dialogue "Please! Help me! I cannot find my daughter! Please! Help me! I cannot find my daughter! Please, anybody! Please find my family! Please, anybody! Please find my family! I cannot leave without my child! Please, somebody, help! I cannot leave without my child! Please, somebody, help! Ishala! Ishala! Are you out there?!? Please, Ishala -- listen to my voice! Ishala! Ishala! Are you out there?!? Please, Ishala -- listen to my voice! The flames are clear! Get to the Temple of the Moon! The flames are clear! Get to the Temple of the Moon! Hero... Hero? Can you hear my voice? I am... so... glad I found you... Thank you! I hope the others made it out... ... I don't... understand... Curse the Horde. Curse them all! Darnassus cannot be lost... It cannot end like this! Elune save us! Water! Please! Please!! AAAHHH!! Why is this happening?! It's so... hot... Put it out! Someone! Anyone! Please, help me!" Ouch, my heart. Sounds like there will be lost children and Night Elves burning alive during the evacuation effort, brutal.Gashy116 8h
10h Jeremiah Payson spoilers (this contains spoilers of the new book) i hope none of you were attached to the cockroach vendor, Jeremiah Payson. because he is killed by the dark rangers under sylvanas order. RIP you glorious vendor, i got my first pet from youWithpuppys78 10h
10h Starcraft/Warcraft, exist in same universe? Warcraft, particularly Uldum and Uduar, is littered with building aesthetics remarkably similar to architecture in Starcraft. They both have humans (although one race is the mutated offspring of Curse-of-flesh'd Vykrul, and the other has ancestors from Earth.) I'm willing to accept the fact that the human race, in this universe, can originate differently, but share similar customs. Both have the Drahnai and the Proetass, and both races come from a long history of fighting/fleeing an ancient foe (zerg/burning legion, etc.) Is it possible it's all one continuity, and that Outland and Azeroth are just some backwater planets of the Koprolululu Sector, relatively untouched by Starcraft's conflicts? Perhaps some of the insectoid races native to Azeroth are the decedents of the Primal Zerg. Thoughts? Is it possible?Zalanen26 10h
10h Blood Elves are just fine in BfA! We're fine as it is now :) pls ignore usDawnsong42 10h
12h Comic #1 is Up Wowhead Piece: Blizzard Link: Direct Comic: 12h
14h Khadgar vs Jaina Proudmoore Who has more impressive magical feats? Who do you think is stronger overall?Edise209 14h
14h Hate the Novel? Comics look promising First Preview of the BfA Comics: Just a few pages, but they look really good. Enjoy.Abrahof261 14h
14h why worship weak gods Why do the mantid and other insectoid races make it a point that they do not worship our gods (The Titans) and insult the Titans and such, when its a matter of fact that the Titans were vastly more powerful and superior to the old gods. If some new gods came and beat the crap out of my current "gods", id probably have a change of faith, especially if these new gods are benevolent (Which the Titans were.)Thalassius12 14h
14h I feel like the Sunwell needs to be tainted. And the Void Elves / Ren'dorei should be responsible. This is not only for the benefit of having story presence for the Void Elves, but also to bring Blood Elves back in line with the "morally questionable" Horde. If the Sunwell becomes Void-addled, it would become a fountain of Void magic to sustain only Alleria and the Ren'dorei. That, or, it'll be completely unuseable as it was when it was tainted by death magic from Kel'Thuzad's resurrection. Blood Elves would return to their mana addiction, a defining trait for the race introduced in Burning Crusade. Blood Elves would need a new source to sustain their addiction, assuming the Nightwell was also extinquished by Elisande/Gul'dan during Nighthold. And with the antagonistic direction they took Xe'ra and the Light in general in, enslaving another Naaru, the original birth of the Blood Knights, isn't exactly the most vile of ideas anymore. In fact, thanks to the Mag'har scenario, the Horde has more than enough reason to be direct enemies with the Naaru. Blood Elves might lose Silvermoon, or at the least it might be contested, which turns it into more of a "who does Silvermoon truly belong to" sort of conflict. Maybe even to throw a wrench in the entire conflict, Velen (or the Elves) finds out Mu'ru sacrificed itself to reforge the Sunwell in an attempt to eventually "Lightforge" the Blood Elves into servitude, making the Void Elves' act of tainting the Sunwell "justified" in a way. Any thoughts?Malefic69 14h
19h Is Grommash the greatest warchief? Is Grom the greatest and most successful warchief that has been introduced in warcraft? We don't have many details about the time gap but I assume he was warchief for quite awhile now and they seem to have had peace on draenor until the lightbound started wrecking things.Xoroth35 19h
1d Uther and His Tomb Spoilers. *** Ok, so we know Calia’s been made into a Lightbound/Lightforged undead. We also know that Uther’s tomb has been recreated into something very nice. He’s also received a new model. Granted, this model is not undead, but do you guys think the holy undead and Calia will have anything to do with Uther? I’m kinda hoping Uther comes back as a holy undead, that would be extremely badass to me. Uther was one of my favorite characters in WC3. But anyway, would this be “character assassination” to you? He wouldn’t have to enjoy it, but I’m sure he would like the chance to help Calia and Anduin with whatever they’ll be doing next if it’s in the name of redemption and the Light.Threrios38 1d
1d Story Forum Community Lounge 142 Link to the Archive: Link to the last lounge: Story Forum Discord: 1) The thread must be called "Story Forum Community Lounge" followed by its number. 2) No serious lore discussion. 3) No hating, flaming, or serious debates unless all sides wish to engage in the talk. 4) You must post these rules in the Original Post, so all can see the rules in future lounge.Threeslotbag127 1d
1d Voss's services were "Requested" Everyone seems convinced Voss is suddenly super into serving Sylvanas but I'm puzzled by that, the new dialogue implies she's not entirely willing. ... It seems most people missed the hidden meaning there. I think Blizz is trying to make it sound like she's making the best of her situation being forced into Sylv's service to help those that are forcibly raised.Skytotem49 1d
1d Future Horde Stories In the interests of being constructive, I think the Horde needs more representation. It’s a recurring problem since without that, we end up dealing with alliance leaning neutrals. For example, I’m hoping that the Zandalari introduce a different take on Druidism. I love the idea of them and the Darkspears leaning towards animal worship rather than balancing nature. I’m not happy with how Garona and Voss join the Horde, but I can tolerate it if they build a rogue organization equal to SI:7. The shattered hand haven’t been relevant in ages. We haven’t heard anything from those Bloodsworn people since their comic. Any other ideas?Arlifrex83 1d
1d Are the horde and alliance racist? Due to game mechanics. Horde and Alliance NPCs try to kill opposite faction players on sight. But how true is this lorewise? For example, would a random human, dwarf or draenei be able to walk into Orgrimmar unscathed? I don't think it's fair to assume every human or dwarf is aligned with the Alliance. How true is the reverse? Would a blood elf, troll or orc be able to walk into Stormwind unscathed? How racist are the races of World of Warcraft actually?Kalorea29 1d
1d Why do Orcs Have Hunched Backs? I've never understood the QuasiModo affect on the character models, and lore wise, it's not quite supported. In fact, even the official Blizzard art has Orcs looking distinctly different than they do in game. We have load screens of Garrosh standing tall, looking baddass. And then we get in game, look at him, and he looks like his back is broke. Anyone have any idea why this is?Hobahken110 1d
1d Horde Identity - Spoilers With every iteration or expansion it looks as if the horde and it's race loose their identity. At this point horde isn't any better then your Saturday morning cartoon villains. I honestly though blizzard wouldn't go down the path of MOP 2.0, but with the new novel leak. It has proved that is not the care. Making horde the go to villain is cheap, but what is even worse is killing horde's identity. The novel shows, the alliance doesn't hate the horde or the undead. the horde isn't facing a threat to its survival. One of the key identities of the forsaken was that well they are forsaken by their living kin and hunted. So surprise that isn't true. At this point i am convinced that blizzard is alliance bias. It has gotten to the point where they have started to ignore pre existing lore. This isn't the first time there are many examples in the past. Most past horde hero been turned to villain and killed; zuljin, kael etc..(this list is long). While their alliance counter parts are well and the one who were of been though to be lost have been reconnected back into the game. aka kadghar, turylion etc... Compare to the alliance horde has had very little positive development since vinlla. The character that created the horde, brought in the taruens, trolls and settled the horde is ignored by the lore team. he wasn't in legion and doesn't look like we have anything for in BFA. While Jaina his counter part gets massive story. I can point to the 2 capitals and mention how kul taris feel a lot more lively and the npc actually behave like people in real life with new animation and sheer number of them. While yes zandlar has dinos and great view, other npc just stand around like every other city. I go ranting on and on, about orc racial leader that we didn't have for 2 expansion is now jailed, warchief spin the char blizzard has going on. All the miss opportunities. Like dealing with Naz'uel in Wrath who ruined dranor. Getting back at Gul'dain creating and using the horde. Dealing with legion who corrupted the horde. Nothing all ignored to show the alliance as heroes. Am I the only one getting sick of this? or do most people like the direction blizzard been going with the horde?Nekkar54 1d
1d How does Resurrection work? And why wasn't Calia just resurrected like Anduin did to his dad? Light-revival was supposedly canon but I guess she was too far gone or whatever for that to work? And what is a Lightforged undead? Is it any different from Shadow? Do they rot? Do they sometimes get altered personalities? I'm so confusedBenezet14 1d
1d Before the Storm Preview Pulled from Amazon Heard this first via hearsay and checked out myself, I cannot view the previews of the book anymore, not even the initial introductory preview from months prior (anyone else can confirm?). Upcoming mass recall of shipped books incoming? Or are we to continue to live with the disgusting novel?Vivette100 1d
1d Baine is an impulsive bull with anger issues. Or, at least, he’s supposed to be. Here, I’m going to give a little analysis of an interpretation of Baine. In my thinking, I’ve been wondering - how do we reconcile Baine’s actions, his personality, and his growth? How can the events we know, co-exist with a Baine we players enjoy, look up to, and rally behind? I went digging, and thinking, and reading, when I came to the eponymous conclusion. Baine had to have been a very hot-headed calf. All his life, he’s had to have struggled with his anger, and it wasn’t until the Siege of Orgrimmar that he came to conquer it. Let’s discuss why I’ve come to this conclusion, and why I think it’s something that Blizzard always intended, but for whatever reasons, never truly came to light. One of the biggest criticisms of Baine is his actions pertaining to Taurajo and the people of Vendetta Point. In what seems like nonsense, he exiled these people from Mulgore. What could have driven him to such an extreme? Hot-headed impulsiveness. One thing is sure - Baine should hate Garrosh Hellscream. The Orc slew his father in cold blood, the one thing in Baine’s life that meant the most to him. Logically, it would make sense that Baine would want to distance himself; he cannot come to admit that he’s more like Garrosh than he cares to be. In these thoughts, Baine impulsively overacts in the other direction. In The Shattering, we can see Baine struggling with his anger, subtly. He shatters Magatha’s totems, and exiles her, because he is trying to distance himself from Garrosh. He knows Garrosh would kill Magatha on-sight, and his impulsiveness clouds his logic. He overacts in the other direction, exiling Magatha, instead of executing her. Let’s consider what we know of Baine. When he first appeared in Wc3, he was a quest objective, captured by the Centaur. Why, then, is Cairne so passive about it? He’s extremely depressed - when Rexxar arrives to recruit Cairne back into the Horde, Cairne simply tells Rexxar to return to Thrall, and tell the Warchief that he is dead. But, Baine’s only captured, not killed, and Cairne is a bull of action. Why didn’t Cairne muster his tribe to rescue Baine, which Rexxar, Rokhan, and Chen proceed to do? “My father once said, ‘Destruction is easy.’ [...] But creating something that lasts - that, my father said, was a challenge.” Perhaps these words were first spoken to a young Baine Bloodhoof, who, in an act of impulse, rallied warriors to himself and sought to drive the Centaur out of Mulgore, once and for all. Cairne’s inaction to rescue his son wasn’t out of passive cowardice, but instead out of shame and horror for what could be perceived as a personal failure. He failed to correctly temper his son’s anger, and thus, Baine led himself to disaster, a disaster compounded upon by rabid, marauding Centaur. Luckily, Rexxar and co. stepped in. Such a situation would be similar to what we saw of Ga’nar in Frostfire Ridge; leaving his clan to hunt Thunderlords. Switch Ga’nar with Baine, and Thunderlords with Centaur, and we have a situation. How about a completely different portrayal - Endtime. We see, in Endtime, timeless echoes of known heroes pushed to extremes. Jaina, still desperate for peace. Tyrande, losing her faith and being unable to see her goddess. Sylvanas, with whatever she wrestles with. And Baine, struggling with his rage. But why rage? Seems so strange, unless it was intended to be a flaw for him. And with his dying words in Endtime, Baine cries out to his father’s spirit for forgiveness. After Cairne’s death, his wisdom would have been especially prevalent in Baine’s mind. Baine would, concurrently, be struggling with his angry instincts, and attempting to do what he thinks his father would do, all the while attempting to distance himself from Garrosh. So, we come to Taurajo. Logically, the Tauren of Taurajo retaliate against the Alliance’s merciless destruction of their village. In Baine’s eyes, this, too, would seem sound. However, the looming towers of Desolation Hold would ring a bell in his head. This is what Garrosh would do. The Garrosh who killed his father, the Garrosh leading a foolish campaign in Ashenvale, the Garrosh who has always been desperate for a reason to clash with the Alliance. It was quick, and impulsive, and it would take long for his anger to settle long enough to actually think about what he had done. Exiling the people of Vendetta Point? For perpetuating violence, he would tell himself. It would(should) later be a source of regret. Jorn Skyseer is an NPC many who quested in Taurajo would remember. The old Hunter was the leader of the village, and accepted tokens from beasts players would hunt in the wilds. After Vendetta Point, we next see him in Pandaria, in Domination Point, as one of Garrosh’s forces. Who knows his fate. Perhaps he died in Krasarang. Either way, Baine would later need to struggle with the fact that his anger, his impulsive, rash actions drove Jorn, and likely others, into Garrosh’s hands and cause. In trying hard, so hard to distance himself from Garrosh, to the point of cutting ties with his own people who would be a part of Garrosh’s war, he only gave Garrosh more fuel for his fire. Despair would come to him, until one fateful day. “Vol’jin!? You’re alive!” I believe that, during Battlefield: Barrens and SoO, Vol’jin was supposed to be a father figure to a struggling Baine. I think Vol’jin and Baine’s VAs do wonderful work, but it’s clear that directing isn’t Blizzard’s strong suit. Many of the lines in SoO, by everybody involved, not just Baine or Vol’jin, are awkwardly delivered, which I blame on bad directing and writing. But by looking at it purely through text, and perhaps adding a few adjustments and emotes of our own, we can piece together what Blizzard maybe wanted to, and failed to, deliver. Vol’jin: Garrosh be concealin’ a whole hidden base. Where did his lust for power take him…? Baine: We will soon find out! He is cornered like a rat in one of these corridors! Revolution, TO ME! Vol’jin: Baine! Baine turns to the rebel leader. Vol’jin: You and these warriors hold this junction. These heroes will forge ahead and flush the Warchief outta hidin’. Baine’s head darts between the Troll and the path forward. Baine: What? Vol’jin: People be dyin’ up above. The city is in chaos. Brother against brother, all while the Alliance sacks our city. I’m gonna finish it - stop the bloodshed. But I need to you keep this chokepoint, and prevent more Kor’kron from goin’ to the surface. Baine: … Baine: … Very well. Vol’jin places a comforting hand on the bull’s shoulder. Vol’jin: It’s gonna be fine, Baine. We gonna find Thrall, gonna kill the Warchief... Gonna avenge your father. Baine: Earthmother protect you, Vol’jin. Vol’jin: Hah! Darkspear never die. We’ve seen Vol’jin struggle with his anger, and in this sense, he could be a role model to Baine. Vol’jin admits that threatening Garrosh with assassination was an impulse action, caused by anger and drove him to be rash. Baine knows (should know) this, and yet, watches as Vol’jin gives up the opportunity for revenge, instead opting to bring peace to the civil war within Orgrimmar. So, we come full circle. We do get a few more flashes of this angry Baine in later appearances. In War Crimes, Sylvanas accuses Baine of being an Alliance sympathizer, which presses his buttons and causes him to wrench her by the arm. While we’re sweeping away the Iron Horde in Draenor, I like to think that Vol’jin discussed with Baine at length stories about his father; it is said that Vol’jin, Cairne, and Thrall, all had a brotherly bond with one another. With this, we can reconcile the Baine of the past with the joyful, jovial, feast-loving, joke-cracking bull we see in the Legion epilogue and going forward. I’m going to keep this interpretation in mind going forward into BfA and thinking about Baine. It makes it a lot easier, and makes Baine a character I look forward to seeing instead of resenting; which helps, because his new model is sexy as hell.Rokugan9 1d
1d The Nerubian Empire should join the horde It's time to bring our spider friends of the north into the fold. They've had years to repopulate and I have a feeling spider creatures can repopulate pretty quickly. It's time to bring the spider women into the horde.Xoroth44 1d
1d Can we get someone else writing the novels? The latest excerpts are, to be quite honest, disgusting. That's the only word I have for it. Golden is making a mockery of WoW with this novel, writing characters in such a way that entirely betrays previously established lore. It's a bad fanfiction piece written in such a way as to build up Anduin and tear everyone else down around him, Alliance or Horde, to serve that purpose. Please, for the love of WoW, do not let her write *anything* anymore. This is truly a betrayal of anyone who still has hope and cares for the lore of WoW.Kheldan298 1d
1d Kratos reference better than Horde narrative. It nails what it means to be Horde more than anything we've seen so far and that's sad. ...Tewdee47 1d
1d Your Daily Reminder. If BG win/loss ratios resulted in real world territorial changes the Horde would control everything outside of AV (an irrelevant frozen valley) and IoC (an irrelevant island). 1d
1d When did Aegwynn die? Was she still alive during WC3? During Vanilla?Challcey9 1d