Story Forum

Oct 26, 2010 Welcome: Please Read! Welcome to the Warcraft Story Forum! This forum is here as a means for players to discuss the storylines of the Warcraft universe, as told in-game and through the novels, manga, comics, and short stories that Blizzard publishes. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy, so we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct ( and guidelines ( before posting. Important Reminders: Search The search function at the top of the World of Warcraft community site is extremely effective and robust. Before you create a new forum topic, please be use it to search for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer for which you are looking. Making a new thread on an existing subject can result in your thread being deleted or, if you continue to re-post the same content, the loss of your forum privileges for spamming. Rating The forum rating system can be used to promote positive discussion, demote unhelpful comments, and even report posts that violate the forum Code of Conduct. By hovering over a post you'll be presented with several options, including a "thumbs up" (Like) and a "thumbs down" (Dislike) icon. Clicking the "thumbs up" icon will rate the post up. If enough people like a post, it will gain a Highly Rated status and appear at the top of related search results. Highly Rated posts will also have a highlighted background. Clicking the "thumbs down" icon will expand a drop-down menu which will include "Dislike," "Trolling, "Spam" and "Report" options. "Dislike" will rate the post down. If enough people dislike a post, it will be darkened, and with a lot of dislikes it will be hidden completely. You can also quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of a violation. Please note that you can only rate each post once. Use your power wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community. While the community team will be moderating this forum as normal, members of the Creative Development team will also be monitoring discussions and looking for constructive feedback. Have fun posting on these forums, and good luck with your adventures in Azeroth!Lylirra1 Oct 26, 2010
Nov 9, 2010 Meet Creative Development What is Creative Development? Creative Development (CDev) is a "hub" within Blizzard, facilitating the development of ancillary products and services that tie into Blizzard's game universes. While there are several different divisions of CDev, this Warcraft Story forum focuses on the efforts of the Publishing division. What does Creative Development's Publishing division have to do with Warcraft's stories and lore? The Publishing division within Creative Development is the driving force behind every published story you've seen outside of the game: short stories, novels, comics, and manga. Who comprises the Publishing division of Creative Development? Publishing is made of two groups: Story Development: This group focuses on story idea creation, story outlining, and story development for licensed fiction, as well as for internally-written stories. Historians: This group is the repository for all Blizzard lore, providing counsel for the game development teams and the CDev Story Development group. What is the Publishing division's usual process for developing a story? Idea Generation & Outline Creation: Working with Chris Metzen and the designers on the respective game's development team, the Story Development team generates an idea and an outline for a story. The writer on the project is typically invited to our offices at this point in the project, so that they can be in on the ground floor of the story's creation. Story Development & Lore Checking: Over the course of the project, the Story Development team talks constantly with the writer, as well as with Chris Metzen and the game developers, in order to help hone the story into a Blizzard-quality tale. At the same time, our Historian team combs through the iterations of the story in order ensure that the story adheres to the universe's established canon. * Please note that the CDev Publishing division has only been fully staffed since early 2009, allowing for more resources and manpower to dedicate to each published product. What does the Publishing division hope to accomplish with this Warcraft Story forum? We'd like to give the community a chance to influence the development of our upcoming stories, so we're trying something new; this forum will serve as a direct line to our story developers. Please note that we're not looking for fully-formed stories - save those for the Global Writing Contest (which we operate and judge) - but rather we're looking for specific examples of what people like, don't like, and what they would like to see (story-wise) from us in the future. Lylirra0 Nov 9, 2010
Nov 9, 2010 Story Starter Guide Looking for more Warcraft information, but don't know where to start? Whether you've played Warcraft I, II, or III, these books will showcase the people and events that have shaped the Warcraft universe over the last few (in-game) decades: Rise of the Horde by Christie Golden - Set before the orcs invade Azeroth for the first time, this story explores what the orc race was like before its clans were forged into a single savage Horde under the influence of the demonic Burning Legion. Part of the novel focuses on the orc Orgrim Doomhammer and his childhood friend, Durotan (who would later become Thrall's father). Other parts of the story depict the aging shaman Ner'zhul; his ambitious apprentice, Gul'dan; the mighty Grommash Hellscream; the wise draenei leader, Velen; and several other significant characters. The Last Guardian by Jeff Grubb - This is a good introduction to older human history in Warcraft, with emphasis on the events of the First War (Warcraft I). Medivh, the Guardian of Tirisfal, decides to take on an apprentice: the young mage Khadgar. As time goes on, Khadgar learns that a half-orc named Garona is acting as a secret emissary to the nation of Stormwind. While he and Garona try to reach an understanding, Khadgar realizes that Medivh's behavior is growing increasingly erratic. Ultimately he and Sir Anduin Lothar, the childhood friend of both Medivh and King Llane Wrynn of Stormwind, reach a terrible realization: Medivh, an incredibly powerful wizard, is under the control of Sargeras, Destroyer of Worlds, creator of the demonic Burning Legion. This novel is also in print as part of the Warcraft Archive. Beyond the Dark Portal by Aaron Rosenberg and Christie Golden – Currently Out of Stock in Blizzard Store, but can be found on here: This is a good introduction to Alliance and Horde history during the events of Warcraft IIx. Instead of starting a new war, the shaman Ner'zhul has decided to open dimensional rifts from the orc homeworld of Draenor into fresh new worlds to conquer. Horrified at the possibility, Sir Lothar's former lieutenant, the human paladin Turalyon, leads an Alliance expedition into Draenor to stop Ner'zhul. With Turalyon are the mage Khadgar and the ranger Alleria Windrunner (the older sister of Sylvanas and Vereesa). Alleria and Turalyon began falling in love with one another in the Second War, but Alleria turned her back on Turalyon after the Horde invaded Quel'Thalas and killed many of her people. In the midst of battle on an alien world, can their relationship be mended? And can the Alliance expedition reach Ner'zhul in time to stop the Horde from bringing death and destruction into new worlds? Lord of the Clans by Christie Golden - This story depicts the life of Warchief Thrall, starting only a short while after Thrall was born. Raised among humans as a slave, Thrall became a master gladiator before deciding that he would escape his slavery. The story depicts Thrall's subsequent friendship with Grom Hellscream, as well as Thrall's journey to rejoin his clan and master the shamanic arts. When a disguised Warchief Orgrim Doomhammer provokes Thrall into a challenge to single combat, Thrall fights his first truly momentous battle: a fight whose consequences will change the course of history. This novel is also in print as part of the Warcraft Archive. Arthas: Rise of the Lich King by Christie Golden - This story explores the life and character of Prince Arthas Menethil leading up to the events of the Third War (Warcraft III) and Warcraft IIIx. As the plague of undeath ravaged Lordaeron, fear and desperation drove the prince to more ruthless measures until he had utterly lost his way. The story also explores the romance he shared with Lady Jaina Proudmoore, in addition to the unrequited love that the high elf prince, Kael'thas Sunstrider, bore for Jaina. The above stories are but the tip of the iceberg. Lylirra0 Nov 9, 2010
May 1 Read This Before You Post For whatever reason, this forum is seeing a massive influx of new posters. Whether it's due to the imminent launch of an expansion (and the tidal wave of lore accompanying it) or just a surge of passion, I feel like I need to reiterate some ground rules and common courtesies. 1). Be Objective! Do not come into this forum and make threads that begin with "So and so is such a terrible character" or loaded questions with heavy bias, i.e. "Why is the Horde so evil?" Doing so is just going to incite other posters an inevitably turn the thread into a flame war. On certain occasions this can also be grounds for disciplinary action. Play nice and keep an open mind. We're here to discuss story elements, not argue over opinions. Try to think like a writer. This is especially true for highly controversial topics like the Forsaken. 2). This Forum Is Not For Fan-Made Fiction! Despite what the name may imply, the Story Forum is not for sharing or discussing fan-made material. It is for discussing officially sanctioned lore/stories only. In short, if it doesn't have a Blizzard logo, it doesn't belong here. That doesn't mean you're forbidden from linking any fiction you may have written (it can be useful in explaining your position on a topic, for instance) or posting the odd paragraph; however, copying large amounts of text or creating threads specifically for any fiction you've written will be deleted or moved. If you want to discuss your own material please take it to the fine folks at the World's End Tavern Forum (otherwise known as the RP forum): 3). If You Have A Question, Chances Are Someone Else Has Already Asked It World of Warcraft has a lot of content, and the expanded universe of Warcraft as a whole has even more. However, there are several very popular topics that get addressed again and again. Before you create a new thread please check through the past few pages to see if there's already an existing thread on your topic. Not only does this keep the forum nice and tidy but it benefits you as well. Long threads tend to already have a very healthy discussion of its topic, and you may find through reading it that your particular insight has already been brought up, discussed, and concluded. If not, it's always better to stimulate an existing discussion than to try and start a new one from scratch. Don't worry, those of us who frequent this forum do carefully read each others posts. You don't need to start a new thread to draw attention. Furthermore, the regulars of this forum get very sick of answering the same questions all day long. I know the Search function hasn't always been the kindest tool, but again please take a few moments to quickly browse through the first few pages. 4). We Are Not Your Personal Encyclopedia On that note, this is not a Q&A forum. Think of it like a book club. You wouldn't show up to your group meeting and then start asking everyone what happened in the last chapter. You're expected to do your own research before coming here and opening topics for discussion. If you're looking for some direction there are many very helpful resources at your disposal: The Story Starter Guide, a sticky at the top of this forum. It includes information and links to out-of-game novels that are a great investment if you're interested in the lore of Warcraft: WoWPedia (formally WoWWiki), a crowd-sourced wiki on nearly everything you could possibly want to know about the Warcraft universe. A superb first-stop and excellent reference material for discussions: TvTropes, while not specific to Warcraft or Blizzard, is a great way to familiarize yourself with various writing or storytelling techniques. Potentially confusing points in the story of Warcraft can seem much more approachable when you realize it's all just part of a larger plan, and many posters on this forum like to reference popular tropes. Be warned, this website will devour countless hours of your time: That said, if there's something that's notably vague or unclear, by all means bring it up! Just avoid questions that can be solved easier and quicker with a search engine than a forum post. 5). Back Up What You Have To Say Be clear and concise with what you're trying to say and provide as much source material as is helpful. The more information you provide, the easier it will be for others to understand and respond to what you are trying to say. This is especially true for potentially obscure in-game quests. 6). This Is A Warcraft Forum Blizzard has many successful franchises with many rich, engaging stories. However, this is a Warcraft forum. Any threads pertaining to Starcraft, Diablo, or any other Blizzard product aren't allowed. Each of those games has their own forums specifically dedicated for their own lore. The Starcraft lore forum can be found here: Diablo lore can be discussed on the Legacy forum here: 7). Have Fun! This forum enjoys a very close relationship with its posters. Everyone here loves the work that Blizzard does, and on some level yearns to make it better. So be respectful to your fellow posters and don't make inflammatory attacks against Blizzard or members of its staff. This forum has a rather unique dynamic that is much... healthier than other forums, so don't come in here with a poisonous attitude. New ideas or insights are always welcome, as are humor and witty banter. Engage in topics that you find really exciting, but don't openly scoff at those that don't. Don't be afraid to change your mind. The past, present, and future are all fair game. Just be mindful of the rules and common courtesies, and above all else, have fun geeking out. Oh, and the Like and Dislike buttons exist for a reason!Odok112 May 1
4m Orc strength, where'd it go? Older lore made it seem like orcs were 2-3 times stronger than humans, as it would take at least 2 human soldiers to match 1 orc warrior. (not counting hero's like Lothar) Now its as if orcs are hardly any stronger than humans.Thasadiel20 4m
19m Vol'jin's potentail return (Spoilers) So I've disliked most of the weird routs the Horde has been for the past 2 and a half expansions but in every grasp of disappointment there's been potential for new storytelling to resurrect that ideal of the horde finally being at least prominent again. So knowing that Vol'jin will return in some shape or form (hopefully not a spirit please don't). I'm here to share my potential idea surrounding potential spoilers for future patches or expansions ahead (beware). Since Sylvana's betrayal of loyalty to the horde in favor of her forsaken arose when she convinced Vol'jin the Loa Spirits told him to end his destiny as the leader of the horde and possible Troll empire there and then, The Horde has been in scrambles and struggling to find their purpose once again. Thanks to the Grim totems union into Thunderbluff, Baine learns about Sylvanas doings. Looking for answers he steps into communion with the spirits to find Vol'jin being punished by Loa Gods for accepting death and defeat. Vol'jin challenges the Loas in the spirit realm to retun back to life and seek his true destiny again. With no body to return, Zul'jin accepts his body for Vol'jin to return only if he returns to bring back the Troll Empire to rise. Vol'jin accepts and asks Baine to reach the homeland of the Amani where no troll reigns. There he will find the resting body of Zul'jin, a new body for Vol'jin to comeback. So there you have it. Some Baine storyline, Vol'jin's return. Maybe more characters can pop up to this cause. A lot of potential storyline to see Zandalar homelands and king Rastakhan etc. I'm not pointing out Sylvanas as the bad guy here. But her doings where of course bad. I see her plot being more of a sacrifice she sees no wrong doing to reach if it saves the forsaken from damnation etc. Just ideas! Enjoy.Basmor0 19m
37m Player Shaman has surpased Thrall? Considering our feats, and the Artifacts we gain in Legion, has the player character Shaman surpassed thrall as a Shaman?Thasadiel24 37m
2h Which Warcraft novel should I read next? So I'm about to finish the Arthas novel and was wondering which books you guys really liked.Gríz8 2h
3h Thrall should come back... ...but that guilt should still remain and affect his judgment in a sense. Otherwise, he'd be a different form of Green Jesus. Just having him shake off his big mistake that has done so much damage to Azeroth would just feel like he hasn't learnt anything. Garrosh was essentially the Horde's Arthas, and I'd like that affect him, see him be less nicer from now on, end what's left of Garrosh's influence on his people, push for better relations with Alliance while harshly punishing anyone who'd disagree, and coldly warning Sylvanas that while he will let her be Warchief for Vol'jin's sake, the moment she complicates things, he'll take back his title and show the Banshee Queen and her people no mercy. I'm not saying he should be a tyrant. I want to see him somewhat trying to make up for his mistake on the eyes of both factions, but that guilt and desire to not have the Horde screw up would drive him to do things the Horde may or may not like. He'd even go on to believe that only he can keep the Horde on the path of Honor, since past successors have either messed things up bad(Garrosh) or died before their rule even began(Vol'jin). It would also play a role in the rise of another orc, who during events of the xpac he'd/she'd appear in and maybe a few events in books, would legitimately learn from the mistakes of the past and prove himself/herself in the eyes of his people, that of the entire Horde, and even be someone the Alliance will take note of, essentially the Garrosh that could've been had things gone South. But Thrall's guilt and fear that this orc may wind up becoming the next Garrosh would cloud his judgment and eventually things would culminate in a clash between said orc and Thrall for leadership of the orcs, with the orc winning and Thrall dying, now believing the orc will succeed where he failed and find peace at last. I know this thread will get some hate and disagreement, but let's face it, Thrall's story is done. We'd all like to see him as his Warchief self, but there's also a lot of people who's done with him.Falgand44 3h
3h So....lich king Bolvar.... So I just wrapped up the DK class mount quest and I got to say....I am not sure if Bolvar is a good guy or bad guy. Was there ever a clear stand on where he was at in terms of the good/bad spectrum. Back in wrath he sacrificed himself to take on the role of the lich king and keep the undead (or the majority of it) restrained to northrend. So good guy points there. But then in legion....all the DK's talk like they are wary of he is someone who they arent fully comfortable with yet. And in the DK mount questline he outright says "If you die im taking Acherus and doing my own thing"...though he never said what his "own plans" are. Does he have a side hustle besides helping us destroy the legion? Is there something nefarious going on with hm? Because back in wrath he is all "I am doing this to keep the undead in check" and now he is like "Hey I dont mind pointing you guys in the right direction but...I got some stuff in the works you might not like" So anyone ever get a clear grasp on where exactly he stands. P.S. Also can someone tell me how raising a death another death knight makes them stronger? (Ala Morgrain)Timat14 3h
4h WC3 duel Thrall vs Uther What if both met in battle, and both believed they were doing the right thing, who do you think would win this fight?Thasadiel41 4h
4h Fist of Ra-dens power? This artifact didn't just come from the Titans, but their leader no less, Aman'Thul, and as its description states, its power alone was enough to Strike down an elemental lord in one blow, as it was used to strike down and imprison Al'Akir. Due to its origin and feats, is it conceivably the most powerful Artifact of all?Thasadiel10 4h
4h Dagran Thaurissan II it's Legion. Everyone is getting older. Anduin is looking great with his new model and looks like a King. But, What of Moira Thaurissan's baby? He's been a baby in a crib since Cata. I hope Blizzard does something with the Dwarves soon.Thogrim25 4h
4h Story Forum Community Lounge 133 Link to the Archive: Link to the last lounge: 1) The thread must be called "Story Forum Community Lounge" followed by its number. 2) No serious lore discussion. 3) No hating, flaming, or serious debates unless all sides wish to engage in the talk. 4) You must post these rules in the Original Post, so all can see the rules in future lounge. Last time on Story Forum Community Lounge: People were talking about boomchickens, for some reason. ... Ignore the typo title, I dropped something on the keyboard and deleted the other thread already.Vaethria461 4h
6h Yo can we stop playing Spin the Warchief? As the title says, can we keep Sylvanas for at least 2 or 3 expansions? Spin the Warchief is my least favorite game and it's not fun. Can we use next expansion to kill Jaina or something that would be fun and cool. Please develop Sylvanas as Warchief, please let her grow as a character and realize that the Horde is a family like Voljin. pls blizz no more spin the WarchiefUnstannimal184 6h
6h Magni's quest up on PTR + other changes -Azeroth is trying to warn Magni about something, but another force is interfering. We meet Magni at the Maker's Overlook in Sholazar, and he teleports us down to the "Hall of Communion" which was built by the titans to watch the young world-soul. -It's seriously cool down there. The Hall of Communion is a reskin of Halls of Lightning, but the whole room is dimly lit and pulses with Azeroth's heartbeat. The heartbeat speeds up when she's stressed or afraid. -She's dreaming of the Legion and the Old Gods, and those visions are actually manifesting in the room. We need to beat them down and then activate some constructs, which calm Azeroth down with "Dream Sedation Protocols." It's like a mix between a nursery and an ICU - very creepy. -Once that's done, Azeroth's actual warning is the standard rivers of blood and burning wound, Sargeras is coming, etc. and our destiny is on Argus. -When I got back to Dalaran, everyone was low-key freaking out. I guess it's because Argus is visible to all players on the server now? The streets were full of panicked and worried citizens, there's a much bigger guard presence, draenei from the Exodar were wandering around trying to spread hope, and "Validated Doomsayers" were handing out yet more pamphlets. Many of these pamphlets talk about Argus's sudden appearance and how we're even more screwed now than we were during the pre-patch events. (One of them actually started with "Sargeras did nothing wrong.") It's a nice touch to have the events of ToS actually reflected in the world a bit.Taruun104 6h
7h New Expansion We all see the writing on the wall with how unsubtle Blizzard has been regarding the void. But what if that's all just a red herring? What if the next expansion is indeed much lower in scale and the threat is not as big, but still big enough? Imagine if you will that Anduin decides to leave Stormwind for a while, take a holy pilgrimage, sort his issues out, and leaves the kingdom in the hands of Genn Greymane. He trusts the man to do a good job of leading the Alliance, but Greymane is still very wary of the Horde. Now let's say a noble in Stormwind's courts uses this knowledge to persuade Genn to do things Anduin wouldn't do, let's call him "Ronald Grump," and through time and quests done convinces Genn to reignite the faction war. But this noble inevitably overthrows Genn through political support and so begins the reign of Grump and his mission to overthrow the Horde and secure a permanent source of wealth and power for himself. And I know what you're thinking. "Isn't that just retreading Garrosh? You only made this thread with the obvious political joke because no one can downvote anymore, didn't you?" Well to that I say... yes. Yes I did. #RonaldGrumpForRaidBossLyricalla18 7h
7h Alleria - Child of Light and Shadow So we have some details involving the following events. Xe'ra says Illidan is the Child of Light and Shadow Xe'ra was keeping Alleria imprisoned for dipping too much into the Shadow Pool Xe'ra was trying to push Illidan faster towards his Destiny What if Alleria was also becoming the Child of Light and Shadow and it threatened Xe'ra's canon to make sure that Illidan was to remain absolutely infallible. As Illidan's ultimate fangirl, Xe'ra imprisons Alleria so that Illidan can get more time to fulfill the prophecy. When she then fails to keep Alleria imprisoned, she hurries to Illidan in order to jumpstart his Destiny as the child of Light and Shadow and become the Fiery Angel leading the Army of the Light.Seebach20 7h
7h About Koltira... I've been playing through the DK class campaign, and I just finished "A Personal Request". And one thing's bugging me. WHY THE !@#$ COULDN'T KOLTIRA HAVE FREED HIMSELF?! We find him in a simple cage, and as soon as we open it, he's able to walk out and create a Death Gate like nothing is wrong. Hasn't he been in captivity since Cataclysm? What was keeping him from simply creating a Death Gate and getting the hell out of there earlier? The quest text made me think that there was a reason we had to go in there and free him, but there was almost nothing keeping him from leaving.Caedine25 7h
8h Warden Towers and lore implications. What's up with Warden Towers? Everywhere? I thought long about the obsession that Greymane and Sylvanas have with warden towers and I realized we can gather a lot about their personalities based on this. The critical point we're going to look at is this - Warden Towers are phallic in shape. This is critical as we veer into Freud land. Why does a man want to conquer phallic shaped symbols? This clearly speaks of huge insecurities. What insecurities does Greymane have? That Sylvanas voiceover. Everytime I'm near a phallic tower. Sylvana's phallic obsession is easier to assess since it's a classic childhood problem - Father issues. Freud would tell us that Sylvanas' obsession with phallic shaped buildings hearkens back to deepseated issues with her father. Hope this was interesting for you guys. I think it's amazing the depth added to lore characters through such simple means. Such immersion.Sqwibbles13 8h
10h Terenas was dumb - My king, your son has returned from Northrend! - Ah, excellent, lead him to my throne room. - But sire, he and his men are wearing black, skull-clad armor, he has a massive sword with skulls everywhere that has an aura of frost around it, they generally look like walking corpses, and every plant they touch immediately dies! - I'm sure it's alright, let him in. Oh, and dismiss all guards, leave me with only Fat Bob and Deadeye Duncan. I mean come on, how did his nation survive for so long with this genius on the throne? I'm surprised he didn't just let the Orcs into his city back during the war. Btw, this post contains a reference to something, if you do catch it, mention it and you get a cookie.Jindun25 10h
11h Favorite Race? Why? I've always bounced around between favorites because I grew up with this game. It's hard for me to latch on to one when there are so many expansive stories, obviously more for some. The Frozen Throne from WC3 made me love Undead. Trolls also being one of top tier picks. Dwarves are always hilarious and the Night Elves are amazing for Druidic lore. I play on an RP server with a community that swells over Blood Elves. I can appreciate Kael'thas' lore and The Sunwell. The story from WC3:TFT made me appreciate having that city to explore and the characters in-game. It's always a conflict for me. Character models, voices, armor aesthetics, lore and culture surrounding them on RP servers. There is love and hate for each. I really wish Blizzard emphasized each race with flavor. Druids got a little love with slightly different models, but that isn't enough. Armor sets are hard to put together and Roleplay is limited to text based in most situations. I really want to hear your guys' opinions on the different races and why you love them. Be it lore, aesthetic or whatever. I'm stuck between Undead and Troll right now for RP potential.Netherghoul85 11h
12h How powerful is Azshara? Some one said she is more powerful than Aegwynn (as guardian of tirisfal) but is there any evidence to her being THAT powerful?Thasadiel10 12h
13h Is Thrall being named Warchief nepotism? Just a random thought I had while I was fishing but considering Thrall and Orgim's friendship, could the latter naming the former Warchief be considered nepotism?Murdra14 13h
14h The Sunwell and the Loley Lich So here's an idea: What if Kel'thuzad's phylactery was in fact, the Sunwell! I mean, its not like he was a lich before Arthas threw him in. However, maybe with the Naaru purifying it would've fixed it but then how did he comeback between for Wrath? I'm just sayin' it is in my opinion, the only lore appropriate excuse as to how Kel'thuzad came back after Vanilla. But it does open another avenue for a potential bossFinkly6 14h
15h Blizzard Needs to Write for an MMO Another thread got me thinking about the narrative and the way Blizzard has, since Cataclysm, really dropped the ball on writing as if this is really a massively multiplayer experience. My thesis is that Blizzard writes the story as if this is a single player game, like Skyrim. I love Skyrim, but what attracted me to this game, and other MMOs before it, was the remarkable opportunity to experience an ongoing epic fantasy narrative side by side, or at times against, thousands and millions of other real people. But in the narrative, each individual PC is written as if they are the only one who matters. For example, we are credited with the accomplishments we only achieved working with a bunch of other players. Sure, we have accomplished amazing things, but only by banding together. Yet in WoD, the story told me that I was the only member of my guild who existed. I was the General of the Horde/Alliance. I have other paladins in my guild. But, again, the story tells me that there is one Highlord, and it is me. They *canonically* aren't real. The thing is, an MMORPG is a relatively new medium, and I think Blizzard is really failing to capitalize on the opportunity to tell stories in a new way. Instead of writing what is essentially a single player story, they should be exploring the possibilities of multiple narratives. Instead of pretending that there is only one PC, emphasize that there are many of us. You aren't going to out-Skyrim Skyrim when you are working in a different medium. Make multiplayer your thing. Embrace *all* the players, together, in the narrative.Carmageddon29 15h
15h Troll Theme / RP Questions! I've scoured youtube and wiki pages formulating a bit of background knowledge about Troll lore outside of the stuff handed to you right away. What I'm wanting to do is create a Troll-centric guild for PvE / RP biased. PvP isn't off limits of course. I'm considering a few options revolving around Bwonsamdi or Hakkar. Bwonsamdi because he'd advocate a war in favor of receiving souls. Hakkar because ritualistic sacrifices, dark in practice, would be potentially willing to accept offerings from most anyone to return to the physical world. However, I'm afraid that these two options would alienate or separate a Guild from the general Troll RP by creating too much of a niche. Maybe a more general tone with a few RP strings related to the above mentioned. So feedback and advice on anything that would immediately resonate or click with players and present a Troll theme without question. There are a couple Guilds here on my server such as Blackmoon Tribe and GorWatha Warband. These guilds were well respected and a few of their members have aided me along my decisions up until now. Added advice for a decent name would be appreciated as well! It's difficult because I get swept up on a couple ideas and know that I'm potentially creating a barrier to far too many to appreciate it.Tazanji6 15h
16h Are eredar actually demons? I ask this because of all the archimonde / kj life and death questions. We know demons die and reform. Thats nothing new. But do eredar? I dont know of any example of an eredar being killed and them coming back, except for velens son in BC which i felt was a retcon based on reasons below. Archimonde Only time archimonde dies in MU is hyjal. It counts as the same death because its the exact same place, just the infinite flight meddled. He dies in AU by the portal. KJ Only time he dies is legion. Sunwell we just beat him back thru his portal. Rakeesh Shadowmoon valley in BC he is a jailer of sorts. I assume this is a retcon. He dies, and the way velen acts he is very much dead. No fel was involved. In fact he dies in like the most non-fel place ever. This leads me to believe the eredar do not exist outside of time, they do not reform, and are not true demons. They are just corrupted draenei. Does anyone know of something contrary to this?Smoli40 16h
18h Is movie canon I played olde Warcraft years ago and the story really was nothing special. Warcraft III had a great story though and playing as Thrall was what made me want to play as orc in this game. Thing is the story in game so far really doesn't have anything to do with anything.Barcaley12 18h
18h Canon Boss Kills Do we know which faction has canonically killed each boss? If we use the Council of the Black Harvest as a reference, we can assume that: • The Horde killed Cho'gall and Ragnaros • The Alliance killed Illidan and Deathwing Do we have any other lore sources that confirm which faction was responsible for big boss kills, like Arthas, Yogg-Saron and every other boss?Zarles26 18h
21h Horde biased has reached new levels. Whats up with the way blizzard has been handling the horde. Architecture - horde building started off great especially in WOLK looked great. Things took a turn for the worst in WOD. We went back in time to the orcish home land before it was destroyed. Yet the alliance had more cities, more developed Garrisons, shipyard. While our looked like trash, our ship yard was barely a dock. Not just the building but our races. Why do orcs, trolls and blood elfs not stand straight. When blizzard make a cinematic for orcs they normally stand straight because even they can see it looks dum. Yet they do not give a crap about the player. Even in RTS and Heros of the storm, trolls and orcs stand up right. Thrall, Samuro, Reghar, Zul'jin Did you guys notice how the forsaken fleet was just transportation ships with one catapult. Compare that to the alliance counterpart a flying gun ship.... in 7.3 we take a boat to the Exodar, while the alliance got something that almost resembles a ww2 battle ship with all its cannons. The Horde got a sail boat with no weapons... Lore/Story While leveling in Kalimdor, all our starting leveling zones are attacked by the alliance. They are shown as the aggressors and we as the defender, I mean they are attacking horde lands how else would it be. Yet in legion we crawl our way to the alliance and take order from them..... how and why would we go back to dalaran, and apologize for everything by giving away sunstrider artifact. Things weren't that great pre legion, as in WOD we went back and killed major horde heroes. We literally killed our ancestors, it be the equivalent of a human going back in time and killing/fighting the human kingdoms before the first war. Before that in mist we were hit with the villain bat... My biggest issue in legion is why do we quest under alliance leaders. Why, no Dalaran is not neutral that was made clear with the purge. I love how blizzard put 0 effort into make legit case as why the horde goes back. Why wouldn't a race that has lost so much to the legion not want revenge? lets not forget legion manipulated the orcs. they almost lost there entire race, culture and planet to the legion. Now Sylvanas is hinted at being the next villain, guess its time for siege of under city 2.0. Which brings me to my next topic, we destroy horde cities while we keep saving alliance cities. This is a !@#$ty trend and makes we want to quite. Either blizzard writes us as the villains or we get no development. Horde biased has reached new levels. Just look at the development Varain got versus Garrosh. Garrosh started off great, he said and I quote “honor do not forsake it no matter what”. Then he gets a complete 180 to his character and gets hit with the villain bat, while his blue counterpart could do nothing wrong and goes out in a blaze of glory as a last f u to the horde he says For the Alliance. We the horde players are forced to watch it. And just for parity they kill Voljin. Now Orcs nor the Trolls have racial leader, but blizzard had all the time in the world to introduce all the human class champions 19 total. Not counting the undead who are still human affiliated, while orcs got 3 and troll got 2Jalandhar205 21h
1d Was Durotan Evil? While in a debate with an extremely biased friend (:D), he attempted to argue that Durotan was evil for allowing his men to slaughter Draenei women and children, and also for revealing the location of a city. I however argue, that while he had to make tough choices, he was basically in a lose-lose situation no matter what he did. If he tried to openly oppose Gul'dan and the Warlocks, he risked retribution on the people that he is in charge of leading. Durotan wasn't liked by Gul'dan, and all he had to do was give him a reason to be branded a traitor. So I thought i'd get a thread going over this debate, basically was Durotan evil? Or was he just a guy who was in a terrible situation, damned if you do damned if you don't kind of deal?Grungal31 1d
1d 7.3 Doomsayer Pamphlets Some spoilers for 7.3 ahead. In case people don't know, part of the Magni quest in 7.3 involved Dalaran in chaos, with terrified citizens running around, patients inflicted with a strange curse, and even shadow priests being able to kill guards somehow. But the most important part are the return of the now validated Doomsayers, who have even more gibberish to give out. But this time, some of them look like actual clues. I'd say the most interesting one is "AN EMERALD DAWN", though it seems like Garithos came back from the grave to write this one. 1d
1d Legion's Artifact Weapons and the Future I don't like the way our actions seem to be attributed to our Artifact Weapons. Like, if we weren't wielding these weapons then we'd be just as useless as a random NPC schmuck that we always have to spring from a Legion cage or something. Then again, I do like the gameplay aspect of having a special "artifact weapon" that belongs to your character. Additionally, it'd be difficult moving forward as there's no way in hell a random green could possibly be better than Felo'melorn or the Scythe of Elune. But the BIGGEST thing that gets my goat? The fact that these artifact weapons were created by the REAL badasses of Lore. Sure, the Ashbringer is a cool sword. but it was made by Magni Bronzebeard. Who, therefore, it more awesome: Magni or the Ashbringer? I'd say the guy who made the sword, myself. Which means Magni is still better than us. And then we get to what this could lead to. In Legion there's quite a bit of emphasis on crafting. In fact, as far as I can remember this is the first time our character have been acknowledged as specific craftsmen at all. One could argue that this means our characters having these professions is now considered canon. So... what's more badass than using Artifact Weapons? MAKING OUR OWN! Imagine making a weapon based on our professions, and maybe even being able to choose different kinds of weapons (which is always something that bugged me about Artifact Weapons, too. I want an Artifact Wand, dammit) that match your class. Are you a Jewelcrafter? Expect filigreed hilts, gem-encrusted hammers, platinum accouterments, etc. Blacksmith? Probably more traditional-looking, grey-iron colored weapons, though you could go really nuts with design. Maces with flying buttresses? Darn tootin'. Leatherworking/Skinning would probably get some more primal-looking weapons, most likely made of bone and sinews. Enchanting weapons will be right out of a Blood Elf Architect's wet dream. Inscription could have runed weapons, or even magical weapons that leave ink streaks in the air when you swing 'em around. Herbalists would have weapons that look like they were grown right out of living wood or plants, and alchemy could have some sort of crazy poisoned weapons. Mining would probably have stuff like Geode hammers and stone slab shields and stuff. What would tailoring have, you may ask? Tassels. Lots and lots of tassels on EVERYTHING. And they all have [redacted]* physics. And last, but CERTAINLY not least, you'd have Engineering weapons. We're talking about Piston-Powered Polearms, Chainsaw Swords, Gatling Gun Crossbows, Plasma Shear daggers, etc. Then, finally, WE'D be the ones making the awesome weapons of yore. WE'D be the guys leaving on a legacy of awesome weapons for future newbies to fawn over. WE'D be the ones getting killed so beforementioned newbies get to loot our corpses. Erm... scratch that last part. *apparently, JI_GGLE is censored for some reason. I genuinely have no idea why.Piffinatour3 1d
1d Night Elf Genesis When the dark trolls became the first elves, did that happen gradually, or all at once? Like, did troll moms start having weird deformed babies with no tusks and freaky long ears, or did adult trolls start transforming directly into elves one day?Bikku19 1d
1d Stormrage brothers "Spoilers" If this doesn't happen in this expansion I'm going to be so salty. Why the !@#$ hasn't Illidan met up with Malfurion/Tyrande yet? It seems like some serious lore/questing that could be added to just make his story better.Ecstalion30 1d
1d Thrall/Orc Presence for KJ The guy is directly responsible for the corruption of their race. They have a right to be there. He was also responsible for the fate of The Forsaken. Why are there no orcs or undead helping take down the guy responsible for all of their problems? Surely they could have had a pissed off Saurfang helping take down the guy who was inadvertently responsible for the death of his son. I mean .. why would they not take the race that is known for piling up demon corpses? I guess I could choke it up to .. "Well the player character might be an orc or undead, so that counts." Still. The guy created The Lich King .. he corrupted the orcs. I feel like we deserve more. At least Arthas managed to kill us. He felt like a bigger threat than KJ. KJ is basically responsible for the entire Warcraft conflict/storyline, and this raid tier/boss fight is leaving a sour taste in my mouth. I don't think any of the others have been quite as disappointing .. except maybe how we took out Archimonde in HFC with help from Khadgar/Grom/Yrell. That shouldn't have been possible either. I know there are other thread about this. I just felt like ranting a little.Cottonmouth40 1d
1d Will Pandaren ever be relevant again? Or were they too negatively-received to play any part in future expansions? It's a shame. I look at RPG source material and concept art from Warcraft 3 and it made me realize how much potential there is for the race in terms of both aesthetics and lore. The serious parts that they have in WoW are well-done, but it seems overshadowed by the goofy aspects. I'm asking because I'm leveling a Pandaren toon for the first time and am really enjoying it. Everything from their armor designs, continent, and animations were done with care, even compared to the updated WoD models. I'm not a full-time roleplayer, but I like to feel immersed in my character and feel like I fit within Warcraft's story. Unfortunately, it seems as if they'll continue to be forgotten and not taken seriously. And when it feels like one's character is not part of the world-building process, it's very off-putting for a lore nerd like myself. Thoughts/opinions?Vathanos32 1d
1d Should the Forsaken stay evil? I understand that one of the things that make people like playing Forsaken is that they are the token "bad" race of the Horde, and people play them to be bad and evil. My question is, should they stay that way forever, or would anyone object to a possible change in their society that might make then less evil? Probably not full redemption, but another means to exist without declaring war on the living.Falgand154 1d
1d Hearthside Chat- Frozen Throne More deets on the Frozen Throne expansion, incl. how they have written for Arthas. 1d
1d Favorite Dead Character So, we have had a few threads in the past along the lines of "Who'd you bring back" or "Who's your favorite character", but lets mix it a bit and see who your favorite dead character is. This isn't about how or if you'd bring them back (Although you can drop in that you want them back if you want), just your favorite character that has died. (Note: Undead do not count for this.) Mines no surprise, it's Kaelthas. His WC3 version made me love the Human role, and I only played them, just so I could play the Blood Mage (and Paladin. Uther was cool). He was respectful, proud of his race and heritage, a good leader who made tough decisions when needed, and a powerful mage. Not to mention his voice being god-like. Plus, his hair and the floating fireballs really added to his appearance. Hated how they did him in WoW.Vïntic65 1d
1d [SPOILERS] Why... ...was there no Horde presence at Kil'jaeden's death? I have no problem with Velen playing a major role in the Tomb of Sargeras. Given his history with the Deceiver, he had every right to be there and have that final interaction. Same with Illidan. Khadgar... well, he's always welcome. But Kil'jaeden was the very reason for the Horde's existence. He manipulated and corrupted the orcs. He created the Scourge and, by extension, the Forsaken. If it weren't for him, the blood elves would still be high elves, Quel'thalas wouldn't be in such devastation, and Kael'thas would be alive. From a storytelling perspective, it's incredibly odd that there's no major Horde characters participating in the raid on the Tomb. There isn't even any in-game reaction Horde-side to Kil'jaeden's death. Where are Rommath, Liadrin, and Lor'themar rejoicing over the death of the fiend who destroyed their people? Where is Saurfang finding peace and atonement, now that the Deceiver can never lie again? Where are the Forsaken relishing their vengeance? Where is the entire dang faction? It's one thing to give characters from one faction a spotlight. It's quite another to completely ignore half the playerbase.Luteyja135 1d
1d 7.3 SPOILERS: LORE CONTRADICTION So now we've found out that Argus' world soul is how demons resurrect themselves, however if that's the case then that means they did not gain this ability until they became the burning legion. If this is the case then why would Sargeras need to create Mardun to imprison them?Küro14 1d
1d Fleshing out the Void Right. Legion's hit rock bottom what with their crippled leadership and Sargeras has been sealed away, where he'll neeeeeeveeeer disturb anyone else again. Maybe. Legion being toppled does somewhat leave a vacuum of characters though. Old Gods are around, sure, but how much longer can we really face them when we've beaten two, and rekilled one. I like N'zoth, but I don't envision him being an expansion boss. Who's to take the part? Clearly the enemy Blizzard's been building up since TBC- the Void. Now, I don't have a problem, I personally believed the Void would one day be upgraded to full villain (though I would've preferred it without the OG connection, but oh well), so the Void becoming WoW's focus villain is almost guranteed unless something comes out of left field. Problem is, the Void doesn't have a whole lot going for it. Yeah, it's got the Old Gods, however maybe it's just me but I kinda see them separate, like how Old Gods and Sha were separate; one created the other, but they don't really act in their interest. Old Gods seem waaaay too self absorbed to care about their makers. The Void really needs some more fleshing out. As it stands, they don't really have a lot of character to it- nothingness that drives people insane. Okay start, but needs more to be a real villain. So, hence the thread, the Void needs fleshing out, how would you do it? Preferably without retcons, though some liberals can be taken. How would you do it? Would you give characters and names to the Lords of the Voids beyond those fractions like Deminsius? Or would you keep the Lords themselves relatively nameless, and instead have them be incomprehensible horror? Servants? Perhaps armies of void corrupted mortals?Ximothy39 1d
2d Illidan's 10,000 Year Imprisonment Why is this always mistreated in-universe? I feel like it's the harshest, most inhuman punishment in the entire series and no one has acknowledged it as such. Literally 100 human life times you would be trapped in a 9 foot by 9 foot room in solitary confinement. You cannot eat, drink, and there is no bed. Magic keeps you alive. I'm not one to brush aside Illidan's atrocities, but I feel like the punishment he endured was ridiculously over the top. I heavily dislike Malfurion and Tyrande both for this very reason, as they are the architects of his prison. How can Malfurion and Tyrande, two people who are depicted as pure and good-hearted devise and go through with such a monstrous punishment? Bonus: How can Illidan still have any affection towards Tyrande? It's completely unrealistic and borders on bad writing at this point.Malvared188 2d
2d Powerful artifacts So people from another thread were talking about making a thread about all powerful artifacts, so here I am :P 1.scepter of sargares, powerful enough to rip through realities 2.scales of narferien, scale of deathwing, super powerful 3. Ashbringer, ICC is all I say about it There are more, but in my mind these are the most powerfulKaydewey25 2d
2d veiled isles so is there anything here? i accidentally jumped off from archerus and landed here but im unsure what the point of the place isOphiae2 2d
2d An Idea for WoW's next expansion? We all know that the Old Gods have made appearances throughout the games, whether it be minor, or whether it be the main focus, but we never had and Old God dedicated expansion and after hearing all the lines from ill'gynoth, I wondered if he was hinitng at a possible Old God expansion soon to come. Which also leads to "Where"? Well, the main focusing areas of this expansion might be the other side of Azeroth, In space, or, maybe in Nyalotha. And maybe instead of say N'Zoth being a focus point in this, we could have a void lord be the antagonist of it all. Like the motivation of all this would be that the Void Lord is trying to manifest itself physically and we have to stop that from happening and maybe we could get to play as the Ethereals or possibly something similar to them. Also, we could get a new kind of class, since we never have really gotten a spell casting focused class we could get a class that channels the void energy. This will all play nicely due to the past 3 expansions having demons in them, we can possibly have a demon free expansion, because quite frankly, i'm sick of demons and their theme aesthetic. It would be interesting to see how blizzard would try something like this, making a the Ethereals a playable race, adding in another world or continent, and maybe a class thats spell casting oriented. But who knows, I mean, if WoW is still allive for the next few years then I guess Bluzzards next 7-6 planned expansions might have a Old God focused expanion, and when that expansion does come into existence, I wonder what they'll call it, maybe "Calling of the Void?" Let me know what you guys think!Luthvelein5 2d
2d Sylvannas speculation - spoilerish? Just in case you are in the dark about some of the datamined information in 7.3 then don't read below. I watched a Krucial video on youtube about the whole Kul Tiras pants thing about possibly an old god/kul tiras expansion. In the video he breaks down the dialogue that we see about an old god filling her heart and such. The consensus going around by everyone else thinks it is all referring to Jaina. Krucial however gave compelling evidence it points to Sylvannas instead. Seeing how Blizzard is developing Sylvannas right now via the lantern/valkyries I think we may see another lich king expansion out of sylvannas after the next expansion. Jaina's storyline is basically sitting at I don't like what you guys are doing so I am going to take my ball and go home. It makes sense for us to have a kul tiras/naga expansion next with us chasing Queen Azshara around while at the same time the storyline of Sylvannas going all "Forsaken first" decides to take it to the next level. Going back and looking at how Arthas was frantically trying to save his people which is what drove him to get a powerful sword (frostmourne). Unfortunately for him, the sword corrupted his mind via lich king. Sylvannas however, has no sword. Once we killed the Lich King she was been trying to figure out her place in the world and what of her people. The dialogue of her showing the valkyries off to Garrosh has her admitting that the only difference between her and the lich king is that she serves the horde. Fast forward to when Voljin is warchief and she is hesitant about taking orders from a troll. Now at the reins of the entire Horde with vast resources, where does she draw her boundaries? There is no Garrosh now to call her a b and keep her somewhat in line. Where do you think the Sylvannas storyline will go from here? Will we have another Garrosh/old god or do you think she will calm herself down?Josuf162 2d
2d Troll Class for RP? Trolls have unique classes in the lore. I'm just asking about the playable classes and what could yield an enjoyable experience befitting a troll. The three classes I'm debating: - Blood Death Knight; Savage / Berserker Spec - Beast Master Hunter; Savage / Jungle Themed - Outlaw Rogue; Cunning / Mercenary I don't like to break the lore set in Warcraft and become a special snowflake as some call it. I like to be a purest and just stick with the tools presented. I am not the type of RP'er to create a 45min introductory speech or backstory. I just like fitting in like a puzzle piece and seeing how the random interactions evolve. Any thoughts on what fits a troll? If you like the idea of one these specs which one? I also have a 110 mage I'm considering race changing into a Troll just because but I'm not so sure on how that'd workout RP wise. ::EDIT:: I totally agree on Survival fitting into Troll themes better. I however, did not wish to play a spec purely RNG based. It's shaky at best what kind of enjoyment I'd get out of waiting on Procs and hoping that stacks sail off into the sun so that I can maintain my damage. I am also a raider, which means I want to enjoy my rotation. I also am aware of the state of the different specs in a raiding environment. As for the Death Knight specs. I feel as though there is a bit of Trollish theme to Blood, or in better words, one they could connect to. Throughout the game we've seen trolls attempt different sorts of magic, including necromancy, to gain power. Attempting to ressurect -THE- blood god Hakkar and making sacrifices. And for piracy? A troll that left the isles and branched out into piracy rather than taking heart in the jungle? It's not that far fetched, it's just a different arc in which Trolls could use their strengths, cunning and savagery. ::EDIT:: The amount of people repeating survival, survival, survival. Did you forget about the raptor trainers on the isles? Did you forget about the quest in Stranglethorn where you find a raptor and what happens next? (Avoiding spoilers for those who haven't done the quest line). Just to mention two examples of Beast Mastery being supported by trolls. It's not a questionable RP spec for a troll. It's just different, not to mention trolls have various things they can RP as when playing a Hunter.Tazanji9 2d