Story Forum

May 18 Is Sylvannas wrong about damnation? In the new short story, Sylvannas claims that the undead are damned to a sort of hell by default, but is this really the case? Cata Questing for Horde in Tarren Mill has the Horde PC fight beside Kingslayer Orkus a warrior in service to the Horde. Orkus eventually dies holding off Balinda and Galvangar (The AV Alliance boss and Miniboss) so the PC can escape w/ secret Alliance Battle Plans. Orkus also owned a sentient Frost Wyrm (undead Dragon) Kasha who is implied to die after. Orkus and Kasha were implied to be pretty close and Kasha disobeys orders and risk's his/her own safety to try to save Orkus. Later on, Horde PCs who are dead (and presumably in the shadowlands) can see both Kasha and Orkus' Ghosts flying around Hillsbarad presumably happy they are reunited. Kasha is technically a Sentient Undead, so does this mean Sylvannas is wrong?Desco141 May 18
May 17 Does WoW need a revamp after Legion? Simple question; does the World of Warcraft story need a revamp particularly the 1-100 leveling experience? Less simple question; why or why not? Complicated but perhaps fun question; what are some of the changes you would like to include in revamp?Danseis102 May 17
May 16 Trolls and high exposure to Mana So I just had a thought about how the exposure to the Nightwell changed the highborne physically over their long isolation. So I'm wondering if trolls would change drastically if they lived in an environment highly saturated with mana for many generations. Would they start changing to another branch of elves or some type of Ley Troll if the Well of Eternity was a special case?Zuliaka32 May 16
May 16 Dun Morogh Storyline in 4k w/ fun facts! Dwarf Starter Zone Coldridge Valley, Dun Morogh : Khanaros, Dun Morogh : Hey all, this is my second video finishing up Dun Morogh. The video shows all the quest text in the Dun Morogh zone (for the dwarf) allowing viewers to read and understand what exactly happened with most of the grind edited out, and I've added tidbits to enhance the lore/experience. I'd love know what you think! Does anyone know if the world of warcraft soundtrack contains all the music in the game for each zone? I think I need to start adding the music that way it doesn't cut in and out. Thanks for watching!Warynn1 May 16
May 16 Azshara Some Azshara spoilers on mmo. On my phone so can't copy paste. Good stuff. Azshara goes Palpatine Except not the good guy. (Palpatine was the good guy)Feraliona30 May 16
May 16 Lore question Who was the strongest magic user in warcraft/world of warcraft history whether it be mage or warlock etc, any magic user who was the strongest in history? Aegwynn? medivh? guldan? or? Mortal magic users, that isFerf41 May 16
May 16 Player Accountability I think Horde paladins that have killed Arator in Outland should be barred from using him in the Order Halls. Horde Dks who finished their Order Halls shouldn't be allowed to do quests for Lady Liadrin.Cbredbeard48 May 16
May 16 Everything after Lich king feels like fluff. I feel like if wow was a single player game the story could of honestly ended after Lich king. it was pretty much wrapping up all the mainstream storylines that people know about. Granted yes there was still deathwing and the old gods and the legion but correct me if im wrong but 2 of those 3 things i just listed were something we only found out more lore and backstory about in those expansions and for all intents and purposes most people believed the legion was defeated with the death of archimond in warcraft 3 during their invasion. everything between mop to now didnt need to happen at all it answered questions as soon as it asked them, it offered no surprises and was just a way to bring guldan back for some reason.(Will this ever EVER get explained how and why the legion went to another time line to get another set of orcs and a new guldan? are you telling me there isnt a single warlock on azeroth that couldnt of started the invasion they just had to go into a new timeline to get orcs and guldan again and we just so happened to by coincidence be there, which also our being there helped guldan come to exactly our world like was intended or???) Im actually really worried where the story is headed because i really feel the new story telling elements are weaker and less subtle and more hollywood marvel movie esque. I can only imagine that next expansion we will be fighting old gods and we will see another lore character in the cinematic get attacked by a giant squid monster and then slyvannas is doing like 20 back flips and it looks like the avengers. Anyone else feel this way/ see this happened?Xanthine86 May 16
May 16 Is Sylvanas the best warchief? ...vis a vis this summary of the Horde (which is presented to you as you choose between factions when you make a Pandaren character). ...Basinah57 May 16
May 16 Timeline question. Quick question that I can't seem to find a straight answer on, how many years have past since the Third war? I'm getting anywhere from 13-16 years. Trying not to write my character into a corner so I would like to know so I can figure out his exact age lol.Gariön1 May 16
May 16 Final Boss of Legion I think I remember somewhere that Blizzard said it would be somebody we'd never expect. My guess is Alleria. I think that's the reason we don't see her in the message in Light's Heart, and why Turalyon sounds so defeated. I think we're gonna kill her and then Sylvanas is going to use of her Val'Kyr to bring her back. Thoughts?Faloestril80 May 16
May 15 New Well of Eternity being born? The link above states that the Temple of Elune was built over a wound in the earth and sealed with the Pillars of Creation. seems to confirm this statement since it outright states that the Arcane Lifeblood is close enough to be unleashed artificially(by the Pillars of Creation). indicates that eventually Azeroth's pulse will quicken to the point where the Arcane will burst out(will probably take until next Expansion's launch I say) thanks to the wound being unsealed. Considering all this what does everyone think is going to happen? Will we get a new Well of Eternity?Yvenathilm5 May 15
May 15 So Bolvar is officially a villain? So I kind of stayed away from the info just to experience the story firsthand, found out today the DK raided Light Hope Chapel... AGAIN. On their way in they slaughtered a bunch of silver hand paladins to get Tirion Fordring body. The kicker for me was that Bolvar titled the "Lich King" ordered them to do so. Really? They're taking order from a Lich King again? Also last I remember didn't Bolvar encased himself in ice? Did he break free like Arthas after killing the human part of him on the spiritual plane ala Arthas? HOwever, the kicker that makes me think Bolvars a villian is that he wanted to make four Horsemen. Like... Why? Why make something the Lich King once use with perverted body of great heroes? Why that route? He wanted Tirion so he can lead his four new Horsemen. In the end they made Darion the fourth, thus completing the circle on what his father became. Is he a thrall now like the original four?Phelios80 May 15
May 15 New Racial Opening Cinematics Does anyone feel like it's time to update the opening cinematics for new characters?Kromtarn23 May 15
May 15 The Tainted Purity of the Alliance. Originally, the Alliance was a heroic alliance of classic high fantasy lawful good races. But ever since WOW, more and more "diversity" was added until "a colorful collection of monstrous weirdos" could describe either faction. WOW: Feral Dark Elves BC: Blue Space Demons Wrath: Heavily Armored Zombies Cata: Diseased Rage Werewolves MoP: Bearmen, Fishmen WoD: Orcs, Goblins, Ogres, etc. Legion: Demon Elves Were the Alliance better when they weren't just another horde of monsters wearing blue?Threeslotbag155 May 15
May 15 Why are there so many types of dragons? Red, green, bronze, black, twilight, nether, chromatic, blue with mana crystals, etc. and on top of that there's proto-drakes, drakes, dragons, cloud serpents, the dragonkin. Is there a particular reason for these many variations?Moir23 May 15
May 15 Night elves dying of old age? With their world tree gone, their second world tree not working, and however many years since wc3, are there any examples of old or aging night elves?Moir101 May 15
May 15 Earthen and Orcs So has anyone thought of the similarities between dwarfs and orcs beginnings? Yes there both Titan-made but both these Titan creations have a specific realationship with the earth element! One is a Titan robot born to mold the under areas of the world and the other is the offspring of a worlds greatest rocky guardian. Discuss!!Goulgrim11 May 15
May 15 Taurens and mounts I've found little information of this so I wanted to ask the esteemed story forums. Do Tauren have problems with ground mounts other than Kodo in lore? Tauren are pretty big creatures. Game mechanics of course allow us to ride whatever mount we want, but can Tauren ride orc wolves? Or undead skeleton horses and it makes sense? Or do we crush smaller mounts in lore?Hramoun16 May 15
May 15 After Credit Scenes So following the cutscene when we defeat Sargeras on Argus and destroy the Legion, what sort of Marvel-esque cutscene would you want to see after the "credits" if you will. Personally for me, I'd like to see the Uncrowned and Kirin Tor mages scooping all the poop and bodies out of the bottom of the ocean beneath Dalaran while the Dreamwardens and other lore significant druids just glare at them angrily. (Y'know. Sewers in a floating city work like that. Sewers that have an underground fight club in a floating city work even better.) Enjoy :)Halestorms21 May 15
May 14 Missing Pillars of Creation? -Eye of Aman'Thul -Aegis of Aggramar -Hammer of Khaz'goroth -Tidestone of Golganneth -Tears of Elune Of note two Titans are lacking Pillars: Eonar and Norgannon. Why? Interesting is that the Tears seem like they should have a connectuon to Eonar... only they don't. I mean, you have to dig deep into the lore to realize Eonar made the Emerald Dream through Freya, and that the Tears have a relationship to the Emerald Dream. But that also gets to the point of we don't know what Elune's relationship to Azeroth is, aside from apparantly being a 'goddess'.Vesiana33 May 14
May 14 Genn Greymane and Andrew Ryan In Stonetalon Mountains, where there's a Bioshock-y questline- there is an NPC named Anderov Ryon who says: 'Fools! Simpletons! Look at you milling about, oblivious to the coming of the end! Allow me to ask a simple question: Is a man allowed - entitled even - the sweat of his brow? "No," says the orc in Orgrimmar, "it belongs to the Horde!" "No," says the human in Stormwind, "it belongs to Alliance!" I knew a man once that rejected those answers! A man that chose the impossible! That man was Genn Greymane and that impossible choice was Gilneas! Oh Gilneas, I miss you so!' Discuss.Basinah6 May 14
May 14 Caverns of time (May be spoilers.) So I was going to do my weekly run of the Caverns of time when I noticed something very odd. A drakonid caster model that was dark like the Infinite dragonflight, but had green tint to it's claws, feet, and wings. I was wondering if anyone else has noticed it, or had any info on this creature? Maybe it has something to do with the new Chromie quest coming?Crider7 May 14
May 14 What short stories do you want? In the same vein as the recent "Dark Mirror," Legion is sure to give out a few more short stories in its lifetime. So, what kinds of short stories would you like to see released? A few I'd like to see... - A short story about Divinius and the Light's Chosen. Those Draenei looked interesting, and I'm sure they'll be around again for Argus. - A short story about what the Zandalari have been up to. Surely the prophet Zul foresaw the Legion invasion? - A short story about Danath interacting with the recently raised into undeath Thoras Trollbane.Rordren71 May 14
May 14 Draenor vs Azeroth (Wow chronicle) So this is just a general observations that I noticed after buying the second volume to the wow universe, and I'd really like to say that it is a fascinating difference of these two worlds. Particularly the involvement of the Pantheon. It seems that Azeroth who got the most attention by the Pantheon. Yet despite their interference they caused a lot of problems for the world, which kept the world in constant imbalance. Whereas with Draenor the pantheon only had a brief touch, and the world itself long after he was gone had learned to balance itself out naturally. Everything had its place in this very savage would, yet there is the underline idea that even with this anyone in Draenor can make a strong impact to shape not only their life, but the world around them. Yes there is war and chaos, but when the ash settles there is a long time of peace and harmony as well. (Until the Legion showed up ;? Azeroth on the other had is constantly being shaped by circumstance, and a lot of times there was not much room for finding balance. In fact I'd argue that its was only during the time of the trolls and elves rule, or the pandaren when their was an actual strive to balance the world. Of course this is just scratching the surface of the lore, what have you all observed between Draenor and Azeroth lore?Genrazy12 May 14
May 14 Next WoW Novel : The Troll Wars Since I am already impatient for the next WoW novels, I am always looking for new info. it seems like we just got some. A novel just appeared online at and The summary of the novel translates to something like : "Following the legendary War of the Ancients, a group of Night Elves mages were exiled. Searching for a new home, they set foot on the coast of Lordaeron. At that time, its inhabitants were cowards and scattered, while the Trolls had a well set civilisation. The arrival of the mages and their alliance with the different peoples laid the foundations of one of the most important conflicts of Azeroth which entered history under the name of Troll Wars."Blackluc293 May 14
May 14 The Cinematics of WoW I've composed a playlist of all cut-scenes, cinematics, and videos of all things in terms of WoW lore. From Warcraft 3 to current, I'd like to share all I've found. Each are, in my honest opinion, in chronological order. I hope you guys enjoy this playlist of 82 (and counting) videos. Enjoy! May 14
May 13 Dragons, playable race in the future? Since the defeat of Deathwing the aspects gave up their powers to revive the world and became mortals. Now that the dragons are free from their responsibility does that mean that they will take more of an active role with other mortals? Since the Pandarians are going to be neutral they could do the same thing with the dragons.Antonidus27 May 13
May 13 Dragon teeth Here comes a really specific question. Is there a canon for the details of a dragon's mouth in humanoid form? I always take in-game character models with a grain of salt, preferring novel description > official art > models. Do humanoid-form dragons have pointed teeth or boring flat teeth that are identical to the race they're disguised as? Might it be only the canines that are sharp? Are their tongues pointed as they are in dragon form, too? (That one detail is only curiosity, it'll never change how I draw dragon tongues. My headcanon is better.) Or could it be just the dragon's personal preference? I only ask because I draw a lot of Warcraft art, and I never really know what's the right thing to do when it comes to one of our scaley friends speaking or grinning.Caelus14 May 13
May 13 Maiev becoming Void corrupted? Since Cordana FELsong became corrupted by the Fel, want are the chances of Maiev SHADOWsong becoming corrupted by the Void?Mythelm96 May 13
May 13 The Ghosts of Darkmoon Island I find these NPCs really fascinating, and hope to start up a discussion about them. All seven darkmoon ghosts can be slightly noticed because of subtle sparkley and colored foggy effects where they patrol around. However, the only way to see them or talk with them is to be dead. Special items that are supposed to let you detect ghosts DO NOT WORK. Those bellow lvl 80 can probably let the wolves eat them, but they hit surprisingly softly, so 80+ shouldn't bother. Other options are jumping off the cliffs, drowning, and dying in the free-for-all arena. Bellow I've put all the ghosts' quotes and map locations: Martha Weller (female human) "The faire is my family. I would never leave my family." "I could never leave an injured friend alone..." "So many people to tend to..." "So many are in need of my help..." Brendon Paulson (male human) map "My life before the faire was hard. I never missed it, or my family." "I ran away from my home in Strom after my father tried to kill me." "I joined the faire to escape my family." "I joined the faire as a child..." "For most of my life the faire has been my home." "I remember telling Silas, "I never want to see my family again." Franklin Jenner (male human) "The war against the orcs, there seems to be no respite." "So many have died at my hands. I just wanted to escape those horrors." "I was promised I would never have to encounter the horrors of war at the faire." Zazla (male troll) "I barely survived the shipwreck..." "Silas kept me safe from my previous captors..." "The faire kept me from an execution. It saved my life." "I saw my captors die horrible deaths. And I laughed." Sithera Wellspun (female blood elf) "I have such a hard time gathering firewood..." "I was supposed to get firewood for the campsite..." "I thought I saw something in the bushes nearby... Then I suppose I blacked out." "When I woke up, I couldn't find my way back to the campsite..." Arlon Surehoof ( female tauren) "I don't know how long I've been watching over the camp..." "I am to keep a close watch over the camp." "These woods are dangerous. A lesson I learned the hard way." "Even death will not keep me from my duty to watch over the camp..." Kupp Coincare (male goblin) "Silas was able to repay most of my debt as long as I worked at the faire." "Most of my debt was repaid... I think..." "My debt was almost repaid. No one was going to miss those last gold coins..." "I didn't think anyone would mind if I didn't stay to help run the faire." Notice that most of them emphasize on how happy they are about the faire and Silas Darkmoon, but none of them mention how they actually died. This means the Darkmoon Faire might really honestly be a nice place. For some reason I don't feel like that cannibal hag is to blame, either. The only ones that don't mention the faire are Sithera and Arlon, tho Sithera is obviously wearing a Darkmoon carnie outfit. Arlon is the only one that seems to be aware she's dead, and Kupp is the only one that seems to imply people at the faire *might* have killed him. Everyone else is all happy about Darkmoon. Thoughts?Quasija17 May 13
May 12 The one reason I love the Lich King There are many, many, many reason why I am in such a deep love for this villian, but the core of why I love this character and why I do not want to see him go like the dodo is the fact that in most of wow lore he is a villian that wins more often than loses. Back in Warcraft three he is the villain constantly working behind the scenes, and out smarts the Legion master's who believe he is bound to. During the human storyline it is The Lich King's victory over a man who was once noble and just. During the Scourge storyline The Lich King's victory is delivering the Legion into this world unprepared for the resistance that is taking place. During the Nightelf storyline The Lich King delivers that devastating blow by fooling Illidan to killing the key leaders in the fight against the Legion. There are even more examples to be made like The Frozen Throne expansion and the content revealed in wow, but the point I am trying to make is that going into Wrath of the Lich King. Everyone was facing a villain who has not really experienced at true absolute defeat. Thus, when he does suffer defeat in the expansion The Lich King does not call them set backs, but rather acknowledges them and puts in more effort to make every single effort of the Horde and Alliance harder to accomplish. Arguably there are many defeats among the Horde and Alliance campaign in Northrend against the Scourge, and those defeats make the Lich King more and more threatening. In most of wow's history the villains are often presenting their progress when inhibited as "set backs", but in the Lich King's case there is no such thing as a set back. There is victory and defeat. He thrives on the victories that are accomplished and when defeated he takes them in stride to make a more devastating victory later on. When he is at last dealt an absolute defeat atop the Frozen Throne it is the moment that the entity decided that there is going to be a change. We did not realize it, neither did Tirion and Bolivar, because everyone thought that the Lich King was nothing without a host, and that is not true. He is a full fledge spectral being of absolute power capable of his own choices, so when Bolivar got the crown placed on his head it was over. Done. Finished. The Lich King did whatever he had to with Bolivar's soul, and then went into that suspended state to rethink. Now he is back; whatever conclusion he has come to realize is clearly unknown, but I cannot wait to find out.... Sorry about a tangent, but God do I love this character, and I do not want to see him go away.Genrazy0 May 12
May 12 Balloon Fest = missed lore opportunity? Would be neat to get some history or current happenings in some of these zones, but most of the dialog seems like fluff or silliness for the most part.Emeraude3 May 12
May 12 Lets Make Khaz Modan Great Again Hello, my name is Lauri, and I am a dwarf of Ironforge, and today I would like to talk to you about the possibility of removing the Council of Three Hammers, and the Senate. You may ask, why would I propose such a thing? They haven't really done anything wrong have they? Well you see, the problem is that they haven't done anything. You see, under the rule of King Magni, and the Kings before him, we Dwarves enjoyed a great period of prosperity. Even after the second and third wars, our economy was able to recover, and we were doing pretty well for ourselves. However, after the Cataclysm, and Magni's transformation (and in-de-facto abdication in Legion) the new government has failed to do anything to address the problems facing our nation. Firstly, they have done naught to begin repairs on the important infrastructure that was damaged during the Shattering, and allowed the Thandol Span, a vital link between Ironforge and Aerie Peak, to fall into disrepair. Another example of this is their lack of action regarding the damage done to the Stonewrought Dam, and the massive ecological and economic effect it had on Loch Modan and the Wetlands. Secondly, the government has failed to assist the Gnomes in retaking the City of Gnomeregan, neglecting the long term benefits we once enjoyed of having a neaby trading partner and ally, and also leading to high Dwarven unemployment in Ironforge as the Gnomes continue to take our jobs. The Council and Senate have also failed at aiding our Dwarven brothers and sisters in the Twilight Highlands and Dark Iron lands as they fight to retake their homelands from the threats they face. Thirdly, the government has also failed to adequately secure our share of Khaz Modan, leaving Trolls, Troggs, Gnolls, and murlocs to hamper the populace and local economy, and cause unnecessary damage. Their only solution thus far has been to send individual mercenaries to cull a small number of their population. Because of our Governments failure, I Lauri of the Highhammer clan propose that I be made regent-King of the Dwarves, and rule until young Dagran is of age. You may ask, why me of all people. Well let me share my policies with you. My first action as King would be to gather our unemployed Dwarves and give them employment in reconstructing the Stonewrought Dam, and the Thandol Span. I would not stop here however, as I will also employ their labour in the improvement and expansion of our road networks to allow faster travel throughout Khaz Modan, including the Dark Iron and Wildhammer territories. Also, the labourers will be tasked with constructing new residential wards within Ironforge, with the hope of accommodating the population boom following the implementation of our social and economic policy of lowering living costs, and encouraging families to have more children by subsidising them. These labourers will also be handsomely paid, which will lead to a large increase in consumption within the economy. There will be no shortage of work under my reign. Other policy I bring includes military and scientific support to the Gnomes as they attempt to retake their city. The military of Ironforge will be expanded, with their actions after the reconquest of Gnomeregan being to first secure our borders, and then assist Dark Irons and Wildhammers in the consolidation of their territory. This is especially important, as their land harbours elements of the Twilights Hammer cult, in close range to our very heartlands. After this consolidation of Khaz Modan, it will be time to go on the offensive, as the might of Ironforge pushes north to conquer the Arathi Highland, and the fallen city of Stromgarde. This will secure our northern frontier, and secure our trade routes to Aerie Peak, whilst also aiding our human allies in liberating their ancient capital. You may wonder how this all will be funded, will let me assure that the coffers of ironforge run deep, and the gold veins in our mines even deeper. Not only this, but the prospective spoils of war to be gained from driving the horde out of the highlands, as well as reclaiming the resources that fell to the pests that live within our borders, will also go a long way to funding our efforts. Thank you fellow Dwarves and members of the Alliance, and i pray for our sake you consider my proposition Lauri HighhammerLauri24 May 12
May 11 Did Thrall Cheat? I'm a little confused as to why the Doomhammer quit working for Thrall. I'm not sure if it's because thrall used the elements and his weapons during the Mak'gora. Or maybe since Garrosh was supposed to be allowed to live and then thrall killed him? Could somebody maybe help explain?Wikmeister65 May 11
May 11 Subtle Efforts to Rehab the Horde I think Blizzard's making a move to very gingerly rehabilitate the Horde's image...among Alliance players. One of the problems I had with Blizzard's efforts to present a story of a united front between the Alliance and the Horde is that the Horde just has so much blood on it's hands. They've killed so many Alliance that the very suggestion that the Horde is somehow a face for good is completely laughable. It also denigrates the sacrifices and losses suffered by the Alliance, like they don't matter. This is infuriating. Blizzard is really hamfisted when it comes to pushing this narrative, having Alliance characters turn their brains off and praise and be chummy with their murderers, while the in-your-face gingoism of the Horde is full front and center. WoD did this alot in cinematics. "Together!" Uh, no, I won't nothing to do with the Horde. I honestly can't feel like I'm a hero if I have the Horde's help. I feel like an idiot. A weak idiot. It's like being the gopher of a bunch of bullies. They tell you they're your friends, you might even tell yourself they're your friends, but they aren't your friends. It's a totally one-sided completely abusive relationship. Assuming Blizzard is aware of this, in my eyes, they've made an attempt this expansion to represent the Horde. They've done this in a number of ways. First, the Horde aren't acting as aggressors against the Alliance in any way, shape, or form. You'd think this would be an obvious step to take if you want to push the cooperation narrative, but Blizzard hasn't done anything other than aggravate relations between the Horde and Alliance since WoW Vanilla. Even in Warcraft III, the Horde did nothing but attack the Lorderaon survivors and the Night Elves until Medivh showed up and told the Alliance characters to turn off their brains and accept the Horde as allies for no reason whatsoever. Second, put up a good front. It's amazing what kind of a difference a good messanger can make when pushing a message. A bunch of butt-headed hyper-masculine orcs could tell you the sky was blue, and you'd reject the truth of their words out of sheer spite. On the other hand, a dainty female blood-elf could tell you fire was wet, and you'd half-believe her by default. As a result, there are alot of elf characters from the Horde this expansion, and a good number of them are female. In fact, many characters from Horde races are female. Third, downplay the Horde's presence. There are a number of champions from Horde races that have little to no role in the Order Hall campaigns. They have nothing to do with artifact quests and tend to be freebies you get at the beginning. What's more, champions from Horde races are heavily outnumbered by those that aren't. Fourth, when there's Horde, maintain a visible and positive Alliance presence. Point in case, obtaining the Doomhammer naturally involves Thrall...but it also involves Stormcaller Myra. While Thrall provides exposition about the Doomhammer, notably taking a back seat during the quest, Myra is front in center providing the player with fire support. When picking up the Fist of Ra-Den, Reghar Earthfury is there...but so are Chen and Li-Li Stormstout. Xuen provides most of the exposition concerning the artifact as well. Aethas Sunfury is the 7.2 mage champion, but the player doesn't actually interact with him much, and instead we deal with his apprentice, a female nightborne whom he seems to have some kind of a relationship with in which he acts as a bit of a fool. What's more, Aethas presents the means to obtaining the Fire Mage artifact as a token of good will (he doesn't actually hand it over, just gives a map). And if that isn't enough, there's an alternative to Aethas in a goblin street performer, who really just wants to make an honest living by pulling a rabbit out of a hat. Speaking of alternative Order Hall champions, fpr paladins, Maxwell of Northshire is shown to have fallen in love with a goblin hostess in Dalaran. Although I personally loath Maxwell, this was just so sweet and sad I had to enjoy it. I haven't done all of the Order Hall campaigns, but 9 out of 12 times is a pretty big sample size. Even the elevation of Sylvanas to Warchief plays into this rehab. Despite being objectively the most evil character in the Horde, she's female, she's an elf (sorta), and has a tragic backstory that still resonates with players despite everything she's done. She has credentials and charisma that Vol'jin lacked, who I may add managed to burn whatever good will he earned in 4.1 by being a butt head in 5.3 and 5.4. While Horde players may lament the fact that their faction and it's peoples are taking a backseat this expansion, that they are generally not being portrayed in an active and leading role, becoming more passive in terms of presentation, I just have to say I. NEEDED. THIS. And so did the Horde. My ability to enjoy the game and it's story, nay, ALL Blizzard games was severly hampered by the narrative they kept trying to push between the Horde and the Alliance. The Horde as far as I'm concerned are nothing more than vile thuggish brutes who only get to pretend to be heroes because they're regularly spoon fed monsters on which they're free to gloriously beat down. That the Horde are only "good guys" by comparison, not by any virtue they possess. I hated being told the Horde were "essentially good", and it kept happening over, and over, and over again in some way, shape, or form. All the while, I see the Alliance floundering about unable to find it's own butt with both hands. So while you guys may think you're second-class, the Horde is really just taking a break, and are making subtle in-roads into not being perceived as a bunch of @*@%!@*! waving yahoos who murder for kicks and glory. It's a practical necessity not just for the health of the game, but for the story and the player-base.Cbredbeard101 May 11
May 11 Best WoW-Breaking Theories Been watching a lot of Game Theory recently and respect the guy for putting so much real-world science, math and logic in game-changing theories. While contemplating ones for WoW, however, I realized we don't have many huge plot-breaking ones. Most of the ones I've seen are "<insert major character> is secretly evil" and it doesn't go much further than that, alluding to a few vague dialogue options and little more. So, o' mighty Story Forum, I come to you for my fix. What are some of the best theories you have to break WoW?Cannibal21 May 11
May 11 Halls of valor. So when we go into the halls of valor and pretty much murder through it. Is it implied the halls are like valhalla meaning the things will killed in there will come back to life to fight again? Sort of just think its strange that we kill all those things.Xanthine8 May 11
May 11 Can someone explain Aethas Sunreaver I do not understand this guy, he was taken by force, imprisoned had to be rescued and his people were slaughtered. What does he do? crawls his way back apologizing and buys himself back in by giving Felo'melorn. No talk of freeing sunreaver that are still being held, no dialog about the purge, no talks of it not happening agian. What is wrong with this clown?Therogg196 May 11
May 11 Baraden's fight against the Legion? Anduin Wrynn in the 7.2 quests talks about how previous kings fought against the Legion, such as Llane and Baraden. All I could find on wowpedia says Baraden just fought Trolls, so were these fel trolls or is there something else going on?Marziveil6 May 11
May 10 Good Blizzard Stories I've come to the conclusion that the majority of the playerbase think Blizzard can't write a decent story. I agree, but sometimes I find a quest line that's super interesting, and goes above my low expectations. I enjoyed my little journey with Runas. I totally thought he was going to betray me, but I was surprised that he didn't. He had a sad death, as he suffered from withdrawal. ( ._.) ( ;_;) What are some good stories that Blizzard wrote in recent memory?Krimmson29 May 10
May 10 Ion Q&A vague on Horde story update. You can watch the Q&A and get a transcript here: Ion made it sound as if Vol'jin really is permanently dead. Killed by a random demon after having no pay-off as Warchief and no Darkspear replacement. Ooph. Not great storytelling. They were also vague on whether we would get an update on the Horde side of things now that Sylvannas is Warchief in Legion, which would leave much of that up to our imaginations for quite a while. I feel like that goes beyond "story content for the sake of symmetry." If you set something up, you need to have it pay off in a timely fashion or the audience gets frustrated. WoW is rife with instances of an intriguing set-up with absent or anticlimactic pay-off, ie Archbishop Benedictus and AU Grom Hellscream. The MMO Champ transcript with my input bracketed for clarification: ...Vintt301 May 10
May 10 Will we save arthas From his time down under. We know he is being tortured in a bad place and we know we will have to face off against the new lich king. Maybe we can deal with the threat for good and find a way to destroy the lich king and his scourge for good by finding a way to save Arthas soul and give him a chance at redemption by helping us with his knowledge or somethingDontfightme15 May 10
May 10 Transmog Vibe/Story Looking at my transmog, what kind of backstory would you give my character? I'm feeling a bit of an insane, lost in the woods for a long time, scientist vibe. Maybe he got desperate and started eating questionable things. Drove him a little mad. Anyone wanna post their transmog and we can share the vibe we get from 'em? Not just another rate thread.Cottonmouth4 May 10
May 10 Timelines...where am I? From what I've learned, the First War was 30 years ago. -Correct- me if I'm wrong. Now. I'd like to know about the intervals between the wars. Is it written anywhere about how many years / months until the second war, and the third? Furthermore, what's a plausible reason for a priest to abandon the Light? Lady Liadrin lost faith after the slaughtering of her kin, but there has to be something more deep. I could see Benedictus' deceit and betrayal as a means of leading some astray, along with many other corrupt stories - but... I need -more-.Liliny2 May 10
May 10 Fel energy forces sex changes? I'm not sure if anyone has noticed this but I'm doing the enchanting quests in Aszuna and the Night Elf priestess was turned into a Satyr.... A MALE satyr! Is this backed up in lore? Because it's sounding like female Night Elves get seriously (en)shafted by fel magic. It also says things about Cordana's body which I won't get into here.Lyxandra29 May 10
May 10 Dragonkin I was wondering if there's any noteworthy Dragonkin in-game that have made an impact on anything... but there's always Kalecgos and Jaina if Blizz wants to go thereLuggle7 May 10
May 9 Lich King Lore is Messed Up, Discuss! Dear All, I will get to the point after a brief introduction with two short paragraphs, there are SPOILERS on warcraft 3 and Northrend in WOW. I am very new to WOW, but not to Warcraft, I am big on games with good stories, I love when games become an art form through an amazing story and ambiance, it becomes a whole different media like a combination of a book/movie and where you get to be in it. Greatest examples to this would be Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, and Fallout 1-2 (just giving examples, not advertising). I am aware that WOW is not "that" focused into story and more about finding loot, yet there are very good storylines one would not expect from an MMORPG, however I still believe that a better story (maybe "immersive story" is the right word here) makes a game way more fun to play, which is great for both the developers and the players since developers want players who enjoys playing the game and have parts they attach themselves to so they keep coming back for more. Now let us get to the point, the story of Arthas and the Lich King, although a classic fallen hero theme, was wonderfully thought, but in my opinion messed up in the execution. I know it was a powerful theme because I see very dramatic videos around websites, made about Arthas, and from players' comments it seems to me that in WOW Arthas and the LIch King was one of the most powerful if not the best storyline in WOW. Now let me tell you why I believe it is messed up, these opinons are of course personal, I would greatly appreciate constructive comments about my opinions but not a meaningless "that's your opinion dude" 1. The confusion between The Lich King, Ner'zhul, and Arthas. Warcraft III i. Lich King and Ner'Zhul One must think of these as separate entities. "The Lich King" is a construct, an influence, created by the Burning Legion. It needs a vessel to function which was chosen to be Ner'zhul, and there is only one purpose of this influence and it is to destroy all life. "All life must end". Ner'zhul is the vessel this influence acts through. The influence of the Lich King strongly dominates the influence of its vessel, yet having a vessel makes the Lich King sort of free to roam around and execute his sole plan boundlessly (like a walking and talking SkyNet, it has some awareness through its vessel, yet still one purpose. That is the reason why the Burning Legion traps it, since they only need its influence not the free roaming part. What I am trying to say here is that, the trapped Lich King, is The Lich King, there is no Ner'zhul anymore, but it wants to be free and execute his sole plan to the fullest. ii. Arthas as a Paladin We know the story of him well, but I do not believe in the part of him becoming slowly corrupt, first in Stratholme and then at Northrend burning his own ships. Instead he is abandoned one, by one and due to silly reasons. Culling of Stratholme is a key point, Paladins, in many fantasy genres makes a great deal of such mistakes due to their stubborn textbook morality, they are fanatics of good, blindly so. Uther and Jaina abandon him at Stratholme because we know first hand that those civilians, peasants, citizens, are already lost, Arthas simply makes the right decision. Arthas is fully aware that the scourge is boundless and must be stopped and all will be lost, he is the only one who understands that and still does everything to save his people, in Northrend this is the sole reason he burns the ships and lies to his soldiers. The ironic part to this is that he actually succeeds in defeating Mal'Ganis, but at the great cost of claiming Frostmourne. Ironically people "were" in the end cheering for their hero when he came back. Think about how the story would proceed if Kirin Tor, Uther and the Paladins did support his campaign, and did not force him to take drastic measures of searching for dangerous cursed artifacts. iii. Arthas and Frostmoune Arthas is gone once he claims Frostmourne, his soul is trapped in the blade the very moment, that is practically when the Lich King has total control of him, "your will is not your own" he makes him kill Mal'Ganis though, since that was a shared goal. After that the Lich King has total control. He makes Arthas kill his father and then return the blade and free him in the end. Please note that Arthas does not go and kill his father, it the death knight who does, Arthas is in Frostmourne, suffering. Remember, in Warcraft III Scourge starting Campaign Arthas the Death Knight says that "he feels nothing" or something in that line, he functions as a an undead body, not Arthas. iv. Arthas Returns the Blade When Arthas returns the blade the Lich King simply chooses Arthas's remnants as his new embodiment. 2. Now we get to WOW I looked for a lot of lore pieces on The Lich King, yet I could only find it in some occasions, and here stuff is messed up. i. Fall of the Lich King Trailer ii. Uther and Jaina dialogue iii. Matthias Lehner questline (VERY IMPORTANT) iv. Death of The Lich King (ALTHOUGH VERY VERY SORT, VERY IMPORTANT) i. This is the trailer where Terenas Menethil refers to the Lich King as my son, and in general throughout the campaign everyone refers to the Lich King as Arthas, and always blames him of killing his father and many others. ii. Here Uther makes a mention of "Arthas" still being present in The Lich King, and holding back the scourge, he mentions it as the "Good left in Arthas". I believe he has a point but in the wrong sense, Arthas does have some influence, as a whole, not his good side, which we see in point iii. iii. This questline was very revealing, You find a heart at the bottom of the ICC, and a spectral kid Matthias Lehner (Arthas Menethil) The Lich King having embodied himself as Arthas does several neat stuff in the questline, in the end of the questline: "After that fight, the prince realized what was holding him back was that he was still human... he could still feel... he could still bleed. He still had a heart. The first thing he did when he became king was to rid himself of it. He threw it down the pit where we first met. And you, <name>, were the first person to touch it since. " This is very neat, What happens here is actually very redeeming of Arthas, Arthas did actually have a strong influence on the Lich King, to the point where it bothers the dominant influence of the Lich King and he throws the heart away, and in the heart Arthas' influence was strongest, thus the questline of Matthias Lehner. And Matthias Lehner refers to the Lich King embodied in Arthas as "him". You see the semi freed portion of Arthas is fully aware of Lich King being a seperate entity. iv. The death of the Lich King, is also insanely revealing. The destruction of Frostmourne frees every soul Lich King has any influence over, and his power, he falls, his influence is lifted (as we see by the change in Arthas' eyes, held by his father' ghost, Arthas grabs his Fathers' shoulder and the punchline: "Father, is it over" Here he is not talking about the end of his reign, this line is obviously a statement of relief, he is finally Arthas here, his suffering under the influence of the Lich King is gone, his Fathers' loving gestures (closing Arthas' eyes also shows that So all in all, what I think is that Arthas from the moment he touched the frostmourne, is in a terrible prison battling with an insanely powerful influence, suffering. He is never the Lich King. Now, what is messed up, what is messed up is the entire world refering to the Lich King as Arthas, even at the trailer of Fall of the Lich King, Terenas Menethis refers to the Lich King as my son with a scornful look, Tirion always refering to the Lich King as Arthas. I might be taking the story completely wrong, but I believe it is unlikely because a lot of stuff falls into place in the way I am describing it, except the bit where our so called world heroes blindly blaming Arthas for everything not being aware of the true influence, the true danger. Maybe they are finding it easier to fight an enemy that they have personified as an evil human being. Honestly it would be so nice, at the end of the Lich King encounter, if every raid member was pulled into Frostmourne and battled the Influence (the real Lich King) with a terribly suffering Arthas in the background, which the result of this encounter would result in every soul in Frostmourne to escape making the Lich King defeatable. Rather than a very very cheap deus ex machina of Tirion making a totally anime move on frostmourne and saving the day. Well if You read all of this, i greatly appreciate it, I wonder what other people think, any comment is greatly appreciated.Gelnolas29 May 9
May 9 Undead Druid... Not advocating a playable undead/druid class combo, but is it theoretically possible according to lore?Sithis55 May 9
May 9 If Shaman healing is water-based... Does that mean everyone gets wet during encounters?Grimknell8 May 9