Nov 26 Neck Enchant for Holy Priest Do I have to get Mark of the Trained Soldier for my neck enchant? Can I get Mark of the Claw or Mark of the Ancient Priestess instead?Wasselin3 Nov 26
Nov 25 Disc and Mana First off let me say overall I love the new design, and I understand that mana costs need to reign in our burst potential. That being said, its getting a bit out of hand. Fights are getting longer and damage is getting higher as progression goes on, and while I understand this isn't the case for every guild, it is the case for a lot of guilds, mine included. I have watched my numbers steadily tank since starting EN normal and progressing though to heroic, and by the time I reached Heroc Xavius, I could no longer make it work and had to bring in my Holy Pally alt, with 20 less ilvls to complete the raid tier. I simply could not cope with the fight length, which was 8 minutes for my guild and the amount of damage going out. I was OOM in the first couple minutes on my priest. I finished the fight without even having to channel on my Pally, which seems a bit off balance at best. I don't understand why they couldn't drop the mana cost of our radiance at 71500k to be in line with say prayer of healing at 49k. They could possibly cap plea at a reasonable cost, so that fat fingering it with 15 atonements out dosen't completely drain the bar. There is a lot that can be done to lower mana costs and still keep us from spamming. The way it is now, feels like it is quickly becoming unplayable, in a progression raid environment. I realize mana is tight for all healers across the board, but it is especially tight for Disc which needs to be played pro actively and has the highest mana costs of all healers, excluding maybe mistweavers. The proactive nature of the spec demands that mana be spent in downtime, the costs need to be adjusted to allow for that.Pearthemedic23 Nov 25
Nov 25 What's with the StM hate? What's with all the Surrender to Madness hate? I enjoy that talent because it makes the game much more intense for you. SPriest would be boring without it imo. Think about it, all you would do is dot and go in Void Form just to redot until you fall out of it.Exorb18 Nov 25
Nov 25 Pitfalls and strengths of Holy Some of the pitfalls of the Holy Priest as I see it, and why maybe we can't do some things you think we can. Plus where our strength actually lies (below). 1. Our spell for constant damage (Renew) doesn't benefit from our top (equal) stat: Mastery, heals for next to nothing, and costs a lot of mana. 2. Our spell for AOE healing (Prayer of Healing) requires all 5 targets to be present and not overhealed to be worth casting. Its range is also limiting (20 yards from primary target). Sanctify, which is described as a "miracle" is really not much more than an an instant cast Prayer of Healing. 3. However, Prayer of Healing does becomes better for a short while after casting Sanctify (+18% to Prayer of Healing for 15 seconds). In practice this means that if you don't need to or can't cast Prayer of Healing during that window where it might be worthwhile, you will not cast Prayer of Healing any more until Sanctify comes off cooldown. Which won't be for ages because you aren't casting Prayer of Healing! 4. Heal is only one chance to proc Blessing of T'uure (bonus to all healing after critting with Heal or Flash Heal), while Flash Heal is two (Trail of Light talent), so Heal is never used. Dependancy on Flash Heal means mana can be tight. Mana trinkets are very strong (I regret not having one). Innervate isn't good for me as I don't really have the ability to dump a lot of mana into burst healing during a short time (this is probably because Blizzard don't want us to be able to heal the raid solo during Spirit of Redemption). 5. Putting out a decent amount of healing requires getting a good uptime on Blessing of T'uure . More than that, it means spending a significant amount of time casting anything other than Flash Heal us hurting your healing. 6. Late pickups on the artifact tree buff single target healing even more (Light of T'uure gives a +25% bonus to all healing done by you to a single target, 45 second recharge) (Serenity Now is a passive 15% increased critical strike chance on Serenity - bringing it up near 50%). 7. Our personal throughput cooldown is Apotheosis (Holy Words are free, and casting Flash Heal / Prayer of Healing brings Holy Words off cooldown quicker for 30 seconds). It's fine to save mana and gain a little bit of throughput, the problem is that your healing capability then matches no incoming damage pattern ever. The most common need for a cooldown is to top people up before and after an incoming burst, but you can still only cast Serenity after every 3 flash heals. So this maybe lets you cast Serenity one extra time before the burst comes in? 8. Apotheosis with Sanctify/Prayer of Healing does a decent amount of healing to 5 players at a time for when there is heavy sustained damage over the 30 seconds, but heavy sustained damage phases normally don't last that long, and you need to be very bunched up to benefit from it. A raid cooldown (like Divine Hymn) is going to be the better tool for raid wide damage anyway. Instead you usually heal these shorter heave damage phases (e.g. Violent Winds) by bursting as hard as possible at the beginning and then near the end you are just triaging the lowest players and waiting for it to end (and so most are not true sustained damage situations). Our strengths/conclusions/tldr If you were thinking of a Holy Priest as a healer with great burst healing (perhaps because you've heard about the holy words being "miracles"), or versatile healers (perhaps because we have historically had a varied toolkit) or blanket throughput healers (as when we relied on Renew in previous expansions), then you need to reconsider. The way I see it, our strength now lies in triage and saving the weakest raid member. We rotationally bring the lowest health raid member to practically full HP as in instant cast about once every 10 seconds (Apotheosis: 5 seconds). We need to be positioned where we can target a lot of people (as opposed to being assigned a small group) so that we can always reach the most needy targets. Between Serenity casts, our best cast is Flash Heal. Recipients of one cast benefit from the next as well even if it isn't cast on them (Trail of Light). Any healing done also heals over time. It only makes sense to cast on the most injured person in the raid. When triage isn't needed as damage is light, Prayer of Mending remains a decent cast. But once that's on cooldown, we really have nothing. You may as well Smite (which does no healing but doesn't cost mana and is actually slightly mana-positive through Surge of Light) rather than spending your mana needlessly with the follow up effects going to overheal.Dominish8 Nov 25
Nov 25 Disc 5 Man Essential Tips Here are the quick and dirty tips you need to know for playing a disc priest in 5 man content: 1. Don't play "above the rim". In other words, don't push content higher than your gear level. Disc is a very gear dependent spec at the moment, mainly due to the fact that our healing toolkit is relatively small. Almost all of healing is done through atonement and shadowmend, and our CDs provide very little synergy with these heals. We don't have the array of tools to handle specific situations the way most other healers do, and almost all healing is done through "brute force" rather than a nimble or elegantly coordinated usage of abilities. What all of this means is that our healing power is dependent on our stats more so than other healers, and even with the most intelligent play you will struggle in content that outgears you. If you are trying to push M+ 10 content more power to you, but for the rest of climb the M+ ladder slowly. If you are really struggling, especially after reading this guide, you are probably simply not geared well enough for the dungeons your are running. 2. Disc is very group dependent. This one is very similar to the idea above. Again, because our toolkit is limited we will struggle when playing with a poor group. Disc mainly heals through atonement, but if you have a weak tank or a DPS that keeps standing in the green stuff you will be resorting to shadowmend more and more. More shadowmends = less atonement healing = less efficency. We really aren't meant to be spamming shadowmend. If you find yourself using shadowmend way more often than atonement healing either your group stinks or you are pushing content above your gear level. Either way, it's going to be a long and painful run in the wonderful world of shadowmend spamming. 3. Mastery is worthless. Mastery has absolutely no value to a disc priest in 5 man play compared to the three other secondary stats. For raiders, mastery is an efficient stat. In 5 man content mastery fails to effect shadowmend, PW:S, clarity of will, or our smite absorb. That alone would make it a second tier choice. Add in the fact that it adds absolutely zero DPS while all three other secondaries increase your deeps and what you have is a stat that has no place in 5 man content. Haste is king. Gem and enchant haste/intellect all the way. The higher you get your haste the easier playing disc will become, as you will have more casts in between atonement applications. This has a number of positive effects on your output, so remember, haste is king. Crit and verse are both distant seconds to haste, with crit having slightly more value IMO. Mastery isn't in fourth place, it doesn't even make the list in terms of secondary stat value. If you are a raider I suggest keeping two sets of gear, one with mastery for raiding and another set with no mastery for solo content and 5 mans. If you are not a raider, exactly why do you have mastery on any of your gear... ? 4. Keep Atonement Up. Always. Atonement is how we heal, or at least how we should be healing. It should be up on our tank at ALL times in 5 man play, and also up on most of the group at all times. If anyone takes even the slightest amount of dmg, plea them. If multiple players take dmg, PW: Radiance a player who currently doesn't have atonement up. You should have 100% atonement up time on the tank, and probably over 50% atonement up time on all other members of your group. When in doubt, throw up atonement. You know I read a lot about people saying you need to "know your fights" as disc. I find this advice a little dubious. It's a bit like saying "know your spec". Of course it's great to know the fights, but its one of those things that only comes with experience and actually playing the content. You can't magically know your fights without actually doing them. So either you will know the fight or you won't, and there's not much you can do about it. With that said, what knowing the fights does is it allow you to lay off applying atonement. If you know the fights maybe you can tell someone doesn't need an atonement at this exact moment. But if you don't know your fights there are some very simple rules of thumb: if someone is taking dmg atone them, if your tank pulls way too many mobs atone everyone, if your DBM makes a scary sound or has a timer about to expire atone everyone. 5. Use Add Ons Speaking of DBM, you need to be using add ons. This really goes for all players and all specs, but especially for disc play. You need DBM, you need clique to do your mouseover casting, and you need an atonement tracker. If you don't know what mouseover casting is, and you don't have an add on to keep track of your atonement buffs, you need to look up those things right now or consider playing a different spec. You simply won't be an effective healer as disc if you don't have mouseover casting and an efficient way to track your atonement buffs. The difference between an average and a good player for any spec is proper add on configurations. For a disc priest, proper add ons to simplify your casting and keep track of atonement buffs are not good to have, but absolutely essential for proper play. 6. Pump out that DPS! I occasionally read comments on these forums about "saving" your dps or saving GCDs or some other rubbish along those lines. In 5 man content you want to be pumping out as much DPS as humanly possible. We apply atonement, and we maximize DPS. Anything that is wishy washy about us doing DPS or questions it is wrong. The fun of this spec, and the way it was built to function, is to pump out maximum DPS and therein maximize our atonement heals. So don't feel bad about building for DPS. For raiding it may not be correct, but for 5 man content maximizing DPS is just as important as anything else. In order to do this you must spread around your SW:pain. As a pull begins tab target cycle through all the mobs applying pain. Once all the mobs have been coated pick one and let loose with everything you've got, remembering to keep atonement applied to anyone who looks like they need it. This is where mouseover casting comes in handy. With mouseover casting you will be able to apply atonement to your group by clicking their nameplates and never having to deselect your mob target. You always want a mob as your target and to be blasting him. Setup your DPS rotation to a macro. It's simple. Cast schism if talented, cast penance, cast smite. Done. You can even add mindbender to the macro if you're feeling lazy because we want to cast that on CD. Now you have a one button attack you can spam. Remember, we WANT to be atonement healing at all times. Blasting DPS is our best way to heal. Overhealing toons at full life is a great way to "mitigate" incoming damage. And the more we are DPSing the more smite absorbs we are throwing up. You don't want to be using shadowmend. You want to apply atonement and DPS for maximum effectiveness. It's what makes disc fun, and the DPS is what compensates for our lack of versatility in healing. It's what makes disc, disc. 7. Cooldowns I am not a fan of disc CDs, but they are what they are. PW:Barrier and Pain Suppression basically save the exact same function in 5 man play. They are CDs you use on the tank when he is in trouble. If his life is too low or he just pulled 15 mobs you pop Barrier or suppression on him to keep him up. Don't use both at the same time. Use one, save the other for the next time the tank is in trouble. Setup a PW:Barrier macro so that it casts where your cursor is. That way it becomes a one button cast. Put your cursor at the feet of your tank, hit your macro hotkey, boom. Barrier over your tank. Not only does it save you a keystroke, it also makes aiming the damn thing ten times easier. GL with that green circle. Macro Barrier to cast on cursor. Your third defensive CD is dominate mind. Again, when the tank pulls way too many mobs mind control one. It's one of the best CCs in the game currently and can really help to take some heat off the tank in oh crap moments. Rapture... well, I don't even use it honestly. I suppose if you know your entire group is about to take a lot of damage or something you can shield everyone, or something? Still, that wastes 5 GCDs which are probably better spent elsewhere. Frankly, almost anytime you would use rapture you are probably better served by simply casting radiance. But YMMV. Frankly I think it's a broken CD with little practical use, but if you dig it than knock yourself out. You should recognize the theme of the cooldowns by now: when the tank is in trouble use one. You don't really need to know the fights so much as have the ability to recognize when things are getting dicey. If the tank pulls 15 mobs you shouldn't need his health to start plummeting before you realize there is trouble. Put a barrier or suppression on him BEFORE he starts getting clobbered. 8. Obligatory Talent Suggestions In tier 1 I personally prefer schism. Remember, I like DPS and schism provides the best raw DPS. Mana should not be a problem in 5 man content, if you are drinking every moment you can between pulls. Which you should be doing. Bind your water to a hotkey so you have a one button sit down and drink hotkey. Drink whenever the action dies down and you will have no mana issues. Sorry for that tangent. Back to schism. It provides the best DPS, so I take it. That simple. A case can be made for castigation and the mobility/simplicity it provides. Up to you. If you like castigation go for it. But if you want the most DPS possible schism is the winner. In tier 2 Angelic Feather is the go to. We just have so little mobility. You have to take some where you can get it. Make a macro which casts Angelic Feather directly on your toon. That way it becomes a one button cast with no aiming. In tier 3 dominate mind is the obvious choice. It provides us a third defensive CD and is one of the best CCs in the entire game. In tier 4 mindbender is the go to. Again, mana shouldn't be an issue in 5 mans if you are drinking in between pulls. Mindbender provides the best DPS increase. Take it, and use it on CD. Tier 5 is a bit trickier. Personally, I like contrition. It smooths out your atonement applications, which is so important. Those extra three seconds are 2+ GCDs, which means contrition also increases your DPS by freeing up GCDs. Personally, I find running 5 mans without contrition ten times clunkier. A case can be made for Twist of Fate though. It provides you a lot of extra healing exactly when you need it, which is nothing to sneeze at. If you are trying to push content which is higher than your gear level you might NEED ToF. Otherwise, contrition is a beautiful thing IMO. Tier 6 we go with clarity of will. First and foremost, divine star and halo stink. Halo is unusable because of inadvertent pulls in 5 man content. Divine Star, while flashing a lot of numbers on your screen, actually does very very little. All those numbers pop up, but they are very small. The damage and healing it provides is minimal at best. On the other hand Clarity of Will provides a very tangible benefit. It stacks twice, so you can cast it twice on a target and get double the shield. Whenever possible you should be double casting this on your tank before a pull, providing them with a substantial shield that will absorb the first blows of the pull. Unfortunately it does not apply atonement, which means you will not be using it in the heat of combat. But prepull it's boss. I'm currently shielding my tank for 800K before each pull in 5 man, which is nothing to sneeze at. Keep in mind it works with Grace, so you want to have atonement up on your tank while double stacking CoW on them. And finally, Grace. Boy oh boy do I hate to give up the DPS purge the wicked provides. It honestly pains me. But Grace is just too too powerful. You have to take it for 5 man content unless you really really outgear the dungeon. But anything even remotely challenging you must take grace. Shadow Covenant is also good, if you like an extremely weak group heal which provides a crippling debuff at terrible range and asks you to give up your single best atonement applicator. If you're into talents that actually make your toon substantially WEAKER, take Shadow Covenant. 9. Goodbye. So that's it in a nutshell! That's 5 man play. Remember, 5 man play on disc is very very different than raiding play. Other guides will point out how to raid with disc, and a lot of advice on these forums is geared toward raiders. But disc plays a whole heck of a lot different in 5 mans. This guide is also not meant for people who are pushing M+10. Your game is completely different. This is a guide for new and somewhat experienced disc players looking for some tips. I hope this helps gets you to where you want to be in your 5 man game.Pubik66 Nov 25
Nov 25 Shadow Priest HELP PLEASE! D: Hey guys, Last time I came to the priest forum asking for advice I got such great feedback/criticism, so I'm back.I am sort of confused and not really sure if my stat distribution is right and what I should be trying to stack. I understand my stat priority (haste > crit), but not too sure I understand my stat weights. I have a lot of gear I don't know how to use, or what I need in order to wait to use. With the gear I have on in my armory right now, I can do 400k. Is that about right or a little off? According to sim runs I should be doing more, but every single change in hopes to increase my dps either- doesn't improve too much, am worse off, or just the same/not much of a dps increase nor a loss. Do you guys have any suggestions on build, voidform, and s2m rotations? I feel like my voidform has always been relatively short, and I've never been able to do 3 void torrents in a single voidform, not even 2 sometimes depending on the situation. ugh, please help. I really need it if I ever want to take the next step in my progression. I'm the only shadow priest in my guild. I'm 4/7M and 2/3H so nothing special but clearly I want to become a better raider and shadow priest all together. Thanks guys, I really appreciate it. If you need me to specify more I will try my best as I already feel like this was a bit unorganized, I'm just really concerned.Vìkt1 Nov 25
Nov 25 Not re-rolling yet, just getting ready. Ive tried out the PTR and with the exception of getting rid of Mind Sear I hate all the changes. I just hate S2M controlling out whole spec... We dont play Shadow anymore we play S2M. I just wish they would just get rid of it all together. It was fun while it lasted, but nerfing our whole class based around 1 talent is just wrong. It wouldnt be so bad if there were any decent choices at all, But Mindspike is a joke and I will never use it and Legacy of the Void is not much better. I was thinking about rolling to AFF lock, but they seem to be having a worse time than us. SMH...Tachispriest7 Nov 25
Nov 25 How challenging is Shadow DPS? Hey folks, I'm looking for a pretty easy rotation and playstyle for mostly solo PvE. Maybe some dungeons, and LFR isn't totally out of the question. Is a Shadow Priest pretty easy to play in PvE? In another thread, someone mentioned that a S2M build is especially easy? SP seems like a good way to a shadowy toon without going totally evil! :) Thanks!Goatleaker23 Nov 25
Nov 25 Boost my SPriest? Should I? I've really been enjoying the class flavor and play style. However I've also heard that there have been some major tuning issues and that you're getting screwed come 7.1.5 Can I get some opinions from some veteran shadow priests on the state of the spec now and to come? Thanks!Elròs4 Nov 25
Nov 25 No mindsear so Rogues kill us even faster? Now that they are taking away mindsear ( for no reason) how do we reveal stealth?Gooba1 Nov 25
Nov 25 PoM/Renew Binding Heal. Hi fellow more math savvy holy priests. I just noticed today that binding heal actually heals 3 targets (I am not sure if that is how it was since WoD derp), and I messed around with it in heroics and it appears to be a smart heal. Same cast time as flash of light, cheaper and most importantly it procs Holy Word Sanctify which is what sometimes frustrates me with flash of light spam. Stronger and faster (per target) than PoH which a lot of the time it doesn't actually manage to heal 5 relevant targets. Then I googled some more and found out that it actually procs enduring renewal as well. So my question is with recent renew/pom buffs, and fixes. Is the idea of using Benediction/Binding Heal/Enduring Renewal legit or not. I feel like that build may allow more mobility, and be less...tense? I could try it out in the upcoming raids, but I'd rather not put people through an experiment that was deemed as a fail already.Velesta10 Nov 25
Nov 25 Holy PVP 7.1.5 great again. Video inside Bit of changes to holy pvp to finally allow us to be viable again.. i hope.Frostyworgzx2 Nov 25
Nov 24 Disc priest is good for solo content ? end game, disc priest is good for solo content (old raids, world quest, etc) ? he is hybrid Dps / healer, right ?Árkhos10 Nov 24
Nov 24 Leveling approach as a Holy Priest What would be the best way to level if I want to heal at 110 as Holy... Should I get the Holy artifact and just level with Smite/Holyfire/Chastise?Solameth20 Nov 24
Nov 24 Is it sad? That im lookimg at the 7.1.5 changes and already trying to decide who my next main is going to be?Revstein23 Nov 24
Nov 24 A Topic on Shadow Talents Good evening and be prepared for a LOT of information. On September 28th, after the Shadow Spec nerfs were revealed, we got together on the Priest Forums (see the appendix for my full quote and a link to the thread) and had a diligent discussion on what can be done to fix the issues that have been plaguing Shadow for the entire expansion. In this post, I continue to highlight the issues with the Level 100 talent row, and I've even bolded the important parts for your convenience. To reiterate, these issues are as follows: Surrender to Madness is the only viable raid talent (without the legendary shoulders, ring, or belt) See the following bullet points as to why. Legacy of the Void provides no benefit overall except a quick first entry Void Form.To expand on this, Shadow Priests start off with zero bonus haste (Lingering Insanity). Having the benefit of being able to access Void Form at 70 Insanity instead of 100 Insanity is very nice, but only for the very first entry into Void Form. After Void Form is entered for the first time and then exited, Lingering Insanity should have enough haste to propel you back into Void Form without delay. On top of that, Lingering Insanity lasts for an entire minute (and it should never take you that long to get back in Void Form, especially with all of the increased haste from Lingering Insanity). If we compare this to Surrender to Madness, the first Void Form takes about 2-3 seconds longer to enter (assuming you are at the correct stat weights) and after Void Form ends, we see the same phenomenon where getting back into Void Form is no trouble at all. This means that there is no benefit to the talent Legacy of the Void as Surrender to Madness can do the same exact thing with all of the benefits of Legacy of the Void. There is also the matter that the most viable time to enter Void Form while using Legacy of the Void is not at 70 Insanity, but 85 Insanity as Void Form lasts longer when entering at 85 Insanity. Yikes. Mind Spike is a talent that used to be a DPS loss overall but now adds only a minimal amount of DPS when compared to LotV.Ah yes, Mind Spike, the most hated play style in the Shadow Priest community. There is no way that Mind Spike can outperform Surrender to Madness and it only outperforms Legacy of the Void by a small value. It's been pointed out to me by one individual that perhaps my data doesn't show the full truth. The reason for this is because I simply left out data regarding Spell Power's effects on both Mind Flay and Mind Spike from my previous calculations. Let's examine the math I did prior to the September 28th nerfs. ... OKAY, SO now let's recap the bonuses of Mind Flay vs. Mind Spike: Outside of Void Form, Mind Spike's total rotation takes deals 46,134 damage over a period of 10.5 seconds. Therefore, Mind Spike has a total DPS value of 4393.71 damage per second. Outside of Void Form, Mind Flay's damage value over one cast is 58,608 damage over a period of 4 seconds. Therefore, Mind Flay has a total DPS value of 14,652 damage per second. During Void Form, Mind Spike's total rotation takes deals 18453.6 to 27691.2 damage over a period of 4.5 to 6 seconds. Therefore, Mind Spike has a total DPS value of 4100.8 to 4615.2 damage per second. During Void Form, Mind Flay's damage value over one cast is 70329.6 damage over a period of 4 seconds.Therefore, Mind Flay has a total DPS value of 17582.4 damage per second.Now, at this point you may have forgotten, but these values were what was going to be put in place prior to the new changes they enacted. Here are the new changes: Mind Flay damage increased by 20%. Mind Spike damage increased by 28%.So now let's look at the adjusted numbers using the same deductions from my previous post: For Mind Spike: Assuming that zero critical strikes occur (as Shadow Priest base critical strike chance is 5%), outside of Void Form, every rotation of Mind Spike and the explosion caused by Mind Blast, but not including the damage caused by Mind Blast, would deal around 59052 damage to the main target of the Mind Spike Fiesta. This rotation takes 10.5 total seconds where 9 seconds occur from casting Mind Spike and 1.5 seconds occur from casting Mind Blast. Assuming that zero critical strikes occur, during Void Form, every rotation of Mind Spike and the explosion caused by Mind Blast, but not including the damage caused by Mind Blast, would deal a range of 23620 to 35444 damage to the main target of the Mind Spike Fiesta, where the low end of the range is due to having 2 casts of Mind Spike whereas the high end of the range is 3 casts. This rotation takes 4.5 to 6 total seconds where 3 to 4.5 seconds occur from casting Mind Spike and 1.5 seconds occur from casting Mind Blast. These calculations disregard haste values.Note: The reason why Mind Spike's Damage is lower in Void Form is due to the fact that other spells take priority over Mind Spike. The exact details are a 2 button to 3 button rotation change (Void Bolt). And now let's compare the same values to Mind Flay: Assuming that zero critical strikes occur, outside of Void Form, Mind Flay will deal 17582 damage per tick with a total value of 70329 damage over the course of one cast. Assuming that zero critical strikes occur, during Void Form, Mind Flay will deal 21098 damage per tick with a total value of 42196 damage for 2 ticks, 63294 damage for 3 ticks, and 84394 damage over the course of one cast. These calculations once again disregard haste values.The calculations up until now I must remind you have been conducted with zero equipped gear and bonus stats. Now, as I stated at the beginning of this section, let's take a look at how Spell Power affects the forms. I ran some simulations on myself and came up with the following data. You can find my character information on the right hand side of the SimulationCraft notes: As we can see, Mind Spike does about 15k more DPS on average in a Patchwerk style single target fight. This is about a 4% increase in damage. Ironically, Mind Spike, which is an aoe ability, does not outperform Legacy of the Void in a Patchwerk style fight with 4 total targets. Note: I chose 4 targets because I have the Twin's Painful Touch. Now let's examine the same simulations for fights with heavy movement: The same variables are at play here, but with different magnitudes. The difference between Mind Spike and Legacy of the Void on single target fights is about a little over 0.3% in DPS. And once again, Legacy of the Void outperforms Mind Spike on heavy movement fights with multiple targets. Now, I personally don't think that these numbers are accurate, and here's the reason why: Simulations are conducted under perfect conditions, which become impossible to replicate in my personal opinion in real time. No one is perfect and no one plays perfect unless you happen to spend thousands of hours just practicing your spec, in which case, you should be using Surrender to Madness anyways. These simulations are eye opening however as it shows that the developers have at least balanced 2 of the level 100 talents to perform within the same parameters, which is nice because should you not play Surrender to Madness, you can choose from 2 different play styles. Unfortunately, both of these talents while being comparable to each other are not in any way comparable to the output of damage on Surrender to Madness and therefore creates an uneven balance in the 100 row. While this is an extreme amount of text and data, the new* changes to Shadow Priests on September 28th were merely a shifting of numbers that ultimately lead Shadow Priests to a more balanced outcome, yet work is still required to tune that row of talents. Essentially, Legacy of the Void and Mind Spike compete at an equal level, however Surrender to Madness is such a powerful talent when used perfectly that the discrepancies between the "balanced" 100 talents and Surrender to Madness are too great therefore players are forced to choose Surrender to Madness and master the talent in order to bring every numerical amount of damage to raids as possible. The most ideal case is that both Legacy of the Void and Mind Spike receive buffs that would allow them to perform on equal levels with Surrender to Madness, however, I myself do not know the development process that developers apply to balancing classes. Now I'll take the time to voice my opinion that Devouring Plague should replace Mind Spike as a third DoT ability, but instead of having Shadow Orbs, which can be tough to manage and rely on casting Mind Blast, I would like to see a come back to the WotLK version of Devouring Plague. Thank you for reading this long, heavy, text and data filled post. I hope this gave you all some insight on why the level 100 row talents of Shadow Priests need to be reworked. ~Peppêr Appendix: ...êr16 Nov 24
Nov 24 Finally received a legendary! ...Prydaz. I don't even want to play this game anymore.Phaiy19 Nov 24
Nov 24 ...And then you die. Horribly. As the title leads in, this is an Spriest post about Surrender to madness. Either i'm using this wrong, and dying horribly. Or I'm confused, and left wondering why would anyone use this ability? So to clarify this topic, how are you supposed to use Surrender to Madness? Quick sidenote for relevance, my Spriest is 101, and slowly working his way up to respectable. Shadow is finally where I want it (lorewise. Old gods and such), so i'm much more inclined to play this particular spec. But it seems the other talents on that row aren't nearly as good as that one (according to icy-veins). So if that's the best one on the tier, (and it would be without the dying at the end), how exactly am i supposed to use that? Is death always included? If so, when am i supposed to use it?Badadvice16 Nov 24
Nov 24 Soloing MoP raids at 110 What have you guys done, and what tips do you have for specific trouble fights and higher difficulties? My journey so far: (along with the difficulties I've done them on, and note) Also I didn't have too much experience when they were current outside of LFR. MSV: Stone Guards (all): DoT up all the dogs, watch em drop. Feng (all): pretty easy Gara'jal (all): pretty easy Sprit Kings (all): blast down the archer when he comes up so you don't get pinned Elegon (all): on heroic don't touch the add or it will 100% kill you after it dies Will of the Emperor (all): the damage debuff eventually hurts but you can kill them pretty quickly with DoTs HoF: Imperial Vizier (all): pretty easy. Blade-Lord (all): pretty easy too. Garalon (all): don't stand underneath him. Kill legs for help. A LOT of moving arond Wind-Lord (10/10H/25): blast down the Amber guys so they don't trap you, kill healers. On Heroic get ready to kill them again if needed. Amber-Shaper (10/10H): this is one of the problem ones. If the boss casts one of its spells (Reshape Life?) it's an instakill. If you can burn it and the boss down you'll be fine. There seems to be some bugginess going on where the large add will instantly cast reshape life when he spawns. Grand Empress (10/10H): pretty easy. ToES: Protectors of the Endless Spring (all): kill the guy that casts lightning prison, dispel the healing buff. Besides that it's easy. Tsulong (all): doable in Shadow or Holy/Disc. I just chose to go Shadow and blast him down. Kill the adds, there's also a nasty debuff that deals damage that scales. Lei Shi (10/10H/25): annoying. Kill the adds when she goes immune. Wait out hide. Splash stacks can get a little high sometimes. Sha of Fear (10/10H/25): stand in the circle to avoid fear. On heroic, kill the Dread Spawns ASAP because they will instakill you if they reach you, and you can't move.Byniri7 Nov 24
Nov 24 Can't get Shadow Artifact Weapon I believe I have tried most suggestions, but I cannot get the Shadow Artifact Weapon quest. I don't remember abandoning it but I must have or something. I have seen others with the same problem but no definitive solutions. If anyone has any further ideas on this I would greatly appreciate it. I am a 110 Holy Priest. I do not have a shadow artifact nor a discipline artifact. I went to trisfal glades where it is supposed to start and found Faol there but no quest. Thank youKolban3 Nov 24
Nov 24 7.1.5 S2M vs LotV/MS "Finally, we are continuing to tweak the Insanity decay rate in Voidform, and the strength of Surrender to Madness, to better balance the Level 100 row. We want to preserve the purpose and strengths of Surrender to Madness for players who enjoy it, without it being quite so ubiquitous as it is currently." Nerfing S2M doesn't magically make LotV/MS turn in to noticeable DPS increases. Nothing about the 7.1.5 insanity adjustment is going to affect the ubiquity of S2M. The 100 talent changes were delayed to "get it right", but nothing was actually done.Nepty13 Nov 24
Nov 24 I miss Shadow Orbs. MoP Spriest was the most fun I've ever had playing a class in this game. Followed by MoP Moonkin (RIP eclipse bar). Now they both use the same boring mechanic. I also refuse to take Surrender to Madness.Bibian3 Nov 24
Nov 24 Sphere of Insanity? Does this weapon rank have anything going for it? Last priority?Jakaan15 Nov 24
Nov 24 Legendary advice Which combo is better? This coming from a raiding priest and some high mythic pluses on the side (highest I've done is 12) Mangaza's + Twin's painful touch Mangaza's + Zenk'aram, Iridi's Anadem I've been using head + belt combo but I recently got the ring on the emissary hoard. Since 7.1.5 is coming soon and I don't know what will happen to the twin's ring Im torn if I should equip and get used to it or just forget about it and let it gather dust on my bag. I currently do not have the bracers or any other legendary (besides Sephuz's but that's not good until 7.1.5) Thoughts?Todes3 Nov 24
Nov 24 twintop weakaura help new to weakauras, is there any way to make twintop insanity bar not disappear when I leave combat? (sorry if this double posts, was having internet problems earlier)Halfkneazle4 Nov 24
Nov 24 How's the Disc re-design? I have a 100 Priest that I really liked in the past a lot as an alt, and sort of been getting the itch to level it but my main interest is the new Disc (which I haven't touched as of yet). I won't lie I'm a bit hesitant simply because of how new and...ahem...innovative it is. For the record I am experienced in all roles and probably the role I'm 2nd most experienced at is healing, with DPS in first. The whole concept of healing by DPSing really intrigues me. At this point in the expansion, how would say Disc is? Did the new concept fail or succeed in terms of what's Blizzard is aiming for and how it feels to play? Is it fun? Most important, can I keep up in heroic raids (this is about the most I'm interested in doing on any character) in terms of performing well on the meter (for both healing or DPS). Thanks priesties.Zipzo15 Nov 24
Nov 24 SPriest Helmet Legendary Rework I don't know where I should post this, but it seems relate-able to this forums thread. I am extremely disappointed with Zenk'aram, Iridi's Anadem's effect. Healing from your Vampiric Embrace is increased by 250% while in Voidform. Since it is a Legendary to fit on your head, i propose that it should affect mind spells. Perhaps an effect like: Your mind spells generate 100% more insanity while not in voidform and void eruption casts 100% faster. This would not promote S2M gameplay, and allow you to get back into the action without that dreary downtime. I'd really like to hear any other theory craft rework ideas from you guys and hope blizzard will get the messege to rework this helmet.Feralay6 Nov 24
Nov 24 Legacy of the Void Suggestion/Idea, 7.1.5 Suggestion for LotV: ... The idea with this is that you achieve the higher Voidform uptime and higher number of Voidform cycles that fits the current direction/idea of LotV. However, it also has a ramp up element, with each subsequent voidform coming quicker than the last. The 10 insanity generated from casting Void Eruption gives it more impact on cast, and also encourages using it ASAP so that you don't overcap on insanity. I also think this would feel extremely fun, give more flavour and impact to LotV, and fits the theme of Shadow Priest. It brings the class fantasy of becoming more and more insane the longer we fight, but in a very different way to S2M. Thoughts, comments and feedback all encouraged and appreciated.Andokhar2 Nov 24
Nov 24 How many times have you run HOV ... hoping for your hidden artifact item to drop? I feel as though I could run this place in my sleep by now. I'm curious as to which difficulty had the most success - I've run it a few times on mythic - and about 9 times on heroic so far. Does it drop in normal?Leeah26 Nov 24
Nov 23 I hate Disc's reliance on Shadow Mend I'd just like a way for Discipline Priests to spot heal low health targets through Atonement rather than spamming Shadow Mend. Like maybe we can mark a target to receive double Atonement healing ("Shadow Pact") at the expense of halving the healing of Atonement to other targets.Patchs74 Nov 23
Nov 23 Make STM baseline Yep, I said it. If blizzard is going to balance us around this talent than it might as well just be a part of the class from the get go.Gleyal13 Nov 23
Nov 23 2 small issues on spriest, intended? Hey guys, Came back to legion a week or so from wod and I noticed 2 small things that are different and I wish to know if they are intended. - Your Apparitions now makes you enter combat even after dead/ressed. - Activating Shadow Form while mounted makes you dismount. These can surely be realy minor things. But in situations like random and rated bgs, even arenas and who knows world pvp. Being put back in combat even when you are not fighting for almost 10 seconds, blocking you from mounting and eating can sometimes be the difference between defending/capping an objective. Anyway, even if intended I can live with it, but just wanted to know cause on top of being a bit detrimental for the performance of the class, its quite annoying.Allayah0 Nov 23
Nov 23 Disc DPS instance/raid question... Hiyas! So i mostly use Disc to PvE/world questings etc... but my main "spec" is Holy. when i want to heal, i que as Holy.. but lately i have been enjoying (and learning) Disc and decided to que as Disc DPS (i did not have heal ticked). Was promptly kicked from one group because they thought i quick que'd. Second group kept me, but was constantly asking why (low dmg on trash) until we hit the boss. I was top DPS and heals after the fight which shut everyone up. ;P My question is this, is it taboo for me to que as DPS Disc (while i world quest) for instances/raids. Or should i stick to shadow (bleeeeh) or just heals when que'ing. sorry for the ramble! thanks!Velvette11 Nov 23
Nov 23 Disc is good choice? i want class/spec with versatility for many content PVE, and Disc lookslike good for this because can heal and deal damage (hybrid DPS and Healer, right?) but, end game, discipline is really good ?Árkhos4 Nov 23
Nov 23 Warlocks outheal priests so...warlocks are always on the top dps...more commonly, the top 5 dps are all warlocks. then you look at healing charts. priests are NEVER on top and just barely...JUST BARELY outheal warlocks. WTF is this????? I'm ticked off at bliz. they ruined the priest. the priest is garbage..all specs. disc. what is this.? a mediocre healer with a mediocre damage guy. your useless to the team. u cant kill anyone and you cant really heal anyone. warlocks out heal you shadow. what is this. insanity? the only class that has to build up 100 insanity so you can cast a spell 2-3 times within 8 secs...if your not stunned or silenced. you have to work your !@#$ off putting dots on everyone around you ...since you cant solo anything...not even another priest...all so you can see that your bottom on dps. a warlock does about 300% more damage than you and by far outheals you by 500% Holy: its ok. still, after working your %^-* off in a bg at the end...your last on healing meters with shammies doing 200% more than you, monks doing 175% more than you. druids 150% more than you, pallies 150% more than least you beat warlocks.Blyaze19 Nov 23
Nov 23 Mind Spike New mind spike: Your periodic damage from shadow word:pain and vampiric touch have an x% chance to proc Mind Spike. When cast on a target, deals y% spell power in damage, and increases the damage of shadow word:pain and vampiric touch on the target by z% for t-number of seconds. Instant cast, max two charges, generates n-number of insanity. Variables subject to balancing, but I'm thinking around a 5-10% proc chance, 150-200% spell power, dot dmg boost of at least 50% lasting for 3-5 seconds. Lastly, should generate around 8-12 insanity.Adíos11 Nov 23
Nov 23 Solution to Shadow Redo Mass Hysteria increase to 3%dmg per stack S2M max stacks 60, and increase the time get stacks after 30 stacks like 1 stack every 2 seconds, then at 50 stacks it takes 3 sec to get 1 stack. this will then also help the non s2m players by slightly increasing their dmgSimpso4 Nov 23
Nov 23 Shadow's New Legendary 7.2 - Suggestions Given that the new SPriest Legendary hasn't been revealed yet, what are some ideas you think would be cool to have? One I thought up was: ...Xerathos23 Nov 23
Nov 23 Shadows Overall Pacing... "Shadow’s overall pacing is being adjusted so that the highest peak is at the end of Voidform, rather than just before the start of the next one." wut?.... Wait... its April fools right? No? Well !@#$. A blue actually posted that. A dev stated it. Its in an official comment. Seriously. Did I miss something? Did the world turn upside down? Is this real life?Noexit6 Nov 23
Nov 23 Swirling Void Potion broken? For the last 2 days Ive been elated to get an SVP from the shadow alter, and both times its totally useless. Not only does insanity still drain, but it even drains while channeling VoiT and Disp. What gives??Melisity2 Nov 23
Nov 23 Claw of N'Zoth I need some of my other Priest friends to commiserate with me, because this thing still hasn't dropped for me yet and it #FeelsBadMan. Anyone else who hasn't seen this drop yet? Anyone else annoyed by the crappy RNG gods dictating when I might see this? With a time limit on when we can unlock artifact appearances, I'm already starting to wonder what's going to happen if it doesn't drop for me by Legion's end. Like, realistically I know that's a long time but with the drop rate as low as it is, it's certainly possible.Vindelle21 Nov 23
Nov 23 Void Form should limit roots I think that would be a low impact change in pvp and helpful for the melee train we all love.Zomps0 Nov 23
Nov 23 Is it Safe to Holy PvP Yet? I've never cared for Disc so I've been sitting my Holy Priest Healer until such a time as he can compete. Will this be in 7.1.5 do you think?Vuuh4 Nov 23
Nov 23 S2M Drain Stack Bug I'm not sure if anyone else was experiencing similar results, but during raid as I found myself entering S2M and beginning my normal early sequence (VoiT > VB > Dispersion), once I would exit Dispersion my drain stacks would be far higher than what they should be at 5-10 Voidform stacks. It was unsustainable after 20 or so Voidform stacks, and I would just die through insanity loss. This happened several times this evening, and was very frustrating.Ishotharambe2 Nov 23
Nov 23 Reasonable request Short and sweet blizz. Would it be possible to increase the radius of our power word barrier?Lorestat0 Nov 23
Nov 23 [Holy] Trinkets Help? Heya, recently I've gotten a new trinket from my weekly mythic chest. I'm just wondering which one is better in terms of raid healing... As I don't really understand how one works, or if its even going to be good. Currently using: 865 Horn of Cenarius: +985 Mastery with socket; explosion of 97,595 healing within 8 yards max 5ppl. I was wondering if it will be worth it to swap it to this for Raid heals: 870 Jewel of insatiable Desire: +1486 Int; bite a friendly target granting 1,673 leech for 10 sec with a 20 sec recharge, 3 charges. I'm not entirely sure how much leech heals or if it even counts in the hps meters either, all I know is its based off the dps of the people that has it (?). My guild currently has members that can do dps numbers varying from 250k-400k dps depending on the fight, if that matters.Artzombie0 Nov 23
Nov 23 New PTR Build from Wowhead nothing much for priests except a nerf to our 4 set bonus from 6 sec to 4 sec.Biraelenn2 Nov 23
Nov 23 Echo of Light in frames As disc my Atonements show up in the raid frames with no addon, but I can't see Echo of Light as holy. Is there a way to view Echo of Light buffs with the default interface?Jablipper5 Nov 23
Nov 23 100 Talents Overhaul The 100 talent row needs a massive overhaul. Currently there is only 1 viable spec to choose from and the talents need some more diversity. LotV should have insanity either removed completely and make it a very sustained dps spec or give us back the cataclysm shadow priest style of play which is personally when shadow was at one of its best. As much as I hated CoP, the mind spike talent is even worse. I think mixing the new shadow priest and CoP could be a nice middle ground, give us so mobility back and fix a lot of problems with the class lacking burst and struggling to solo content. Obviously keep StM as the 3rd talent choice. This way you please a lot of shadow priests from many generations rather than trying to force everyone into one style.Bbthirteen3 Nov 23
Nov 23 A thought about S2M tier... Hear me out.... How about giving a same tier choice that restores the shadow orb system and all of its mobility, with the removal of new resource, in place of one of the useless choices? I'd play my priest as shadow and probably pvp this expansion.Bloodsworn7 Nov 23