Sep 25 Rogue Leveling FAQ (7.x) Updated: 12/17/16 for 7.x. This FAQ is for new rogues. It is full of simplifications and generalizations. The focus is on optimal leveling speed and viability. This is not how things will work for end game pve/pvp. Be sure to read though the notes, as I've tried to explain major exceptions and caveats. Bold/underline is direct question answer. But, as you will see, many choices can not be made in a vacuum. If any class is about experimentation and situational planning, the rogue class is and to fully understand the class, you will need to think this way as well. If you'd like, you can join the Ravenholdt discord server to chat with other rogues here: Or you can contact me on twitter or email. Twitter/Gmail: wavefunctionpAeriwen403 Sep 25
Jun 19, 2017 Roguedom: Common Rogue Q's & A's (Last updated July 20, 2018.) Raiding. Gear. Stats. Secrecy. Poison. Murder. Deceit. There's so much to know about being a rogue! What's a pirate-spy-ninja-sassin to do? Nothing. You're screwed. You'll never be any good. Oh! Sorry; force of forum habit -- I meant the opposite of that. Whether you're new to the class or a grizzled veteran, there's always more to learn about playing a rogue. In this thread, I’ll do my best to answer commonly asked questions on a range of rogue topics. At present I'm keeping this thread focused on end-game PvE questions only (i.e., primarily raid-relevant stuff). If you've got any suggestions, Q's you'd like to see A'd, corrections or general death threats, feel free to post in this thread, flip me the bird at @SvelteKumquat or email me at I look forward to completely ignoring your heartfelt messages.Rfeann231 Jun 19, 2017
Nov 1, 2016 Shadow Dance and the Stealth Bar We’ve been reading all of the feedback throughout beta regarding Shadow Dance and the desire to have it use the “Stealth action bar.” To get right to the point, after an upcoming hotfix, Subtlety Rogues will find that Shadow Dance swaps their main action bar to the alternate bar that is used while in Stealth. For a bit of context on the late change to our thinking on this: we rarely allow automatic functionality (such as action bar swaps, or macros) to choose between core damage abilities on the player’s behalf. We believe it’s important that the player has to make those choices themselves. The Rogue Stealth bar has always been a minor exception to this, but for many years, the Stealth bar was only active for the single ability you used to open a combat, and was not seen again for the duration of combat (other than with Vanish). The ability to bind your openers to the same buttons as your rotational abilities was a convenience that didn’t affect your use of abilities in combat. However, the new Shadow Dance (and to a lesser extent Subterfuge), has resulted in some Rogues regularly using openers during combat, as elements of their rotation. In this case, the Stealth bar changes from a minor convenience that lets you place once-per-combat buttons on more convenient keybinds, to actually making regular, mid-combat decisions for you. That said, after following the ongoing discussions and carefully considering your feedback, we understand the desire for consistency with other abilities that allow Stealth-only actions. Given the gray area that Shadow Dance is in, and the widespread feedback that using the Stealth bar would be more consistent and intuitive, we’ve decided to go ahead and allow Shadow Dance to once again swap your main action bar. This hotfix is scheduled to live with weekly restarts in each region. A few details for players who use macros to further manage their buttons: Shadow Dance will be treated similarly to Subterfuge for the purposes of macro conditionals. It will not activate [stealth], but it will activate [stance:2]. If you want to make a macro that mimics the behavior of the main bar (i.e. swapping when you have any of Stealth, Vanish, Subterfuge, or Shadow Dance), you can use the macro conditional [bonusbar:1].Ornyx127 Nov 1, 2016
Oct 26, 2010 Welcome Rogues: Please Read! Welcome to the Rogue forum! This forum is here to provide you with a friendly environment where you can discuss the rogue class with your fellow World of Warcraft players. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy, so we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct ( and guidelines ( before posting. Important Reminders: Search The search function at the top of the World of Warcraft community site is extremely effective and robust. Before you create a new forum topic, please be use it to search for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer for which you are looking. Making a new thread on an existing subject can result in your thread being deleted or, if you continue to re-post the same content, the loss of your forum privileges for spamming. Rating The forum rating system can be used to promote positive discussion, demote unhelpful comments, and even report posts that violate the forum Code of Conduct. By hovering over a post you'll be presented with several options, including a "thumbs up" (Like) and a "thumbs down" (Dislike) icon. Clicking the "thumbs up" icon will rate the post up. If enough people like a post, it will gain a Highly Rated status and appear at the top of related search results. Highly Rated posts will also have a highlighted background. Clicking the "thumbs down" icon will expand a drop-down menu which will include "Dislike," "Trolling, "Spam" and "Report" options. "Dislike" will rate the post down. If enough people dislike a post, it will be darkened, and with a lot of dislikes it will be hidden completely. You can also quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of a violation. Please note that you can only rate each post once. Use your power wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community. Have fun posting on these forums, and good luck with your adventures in Azeroth!Lylirra1 Oct 26, 2010
5m Vanish is severely broken right now. I've been able to use ST target abilities on Rogue right after they vanished pretty consistently this patch and have noticed I continue to get single target DoTed even after cleansing and Vanishing. I know its been like this for a while but feels far more consistent and worse this patch. Anyone else seeing this?Boneslime6 5m
7m My new sim and shrouded suff Hey guys. I just simmed my character for top gear and it had me using a 355 blighted crut buff trait over 370 shrouded suff shoulders combined with 370 double dose chest and uldir helm. My highest sim was 15,680 dps without SS trait vs 15,320 with SS Im simming 300dps higher without the shrouded trait and am wondering if you guys think the benefit of the 2 combo points outweighs the extra dps im simming at? If i go the top dps route ill have no extra cp on my garrotes completely changing my rotstion, im guessing to garrote > mut > rupture > garrote > mut > rupture?? Help!!Mercader9 7m
1h One truth about rogues. You can't balance them, they will either be too powerful or not powerful enough. The way they interact with other classes makes them too strong in certain situations and good enough in others, nerf them and they become weak in some and good enough on the rest. No way rogues are not going to be well represented in pvp, people create rogues having pvp in mind. Not because they're op, but because stealth/assassin/rogue classes have been the iconic pvp class in mmorpgs. Nerf assassination more and it wont make a difference, cripple the class like what they did to sub and everyone will move on to outlaw. To me that's injustice, to not buff other classes and to ruin and to make you feel restricted on what to play. Especially when rogues feel less like rogues every expansion after wod, when every patch takes something away and slowly we become more incomplete. From a sub rogue player.Pallies10 1h
1h Rate that mog: Rogue Edition Hey everyone, I want to see the best rogue transmogs Azeroth has to offer. Be cool, have fun, and let’s see those mogs!Thresh396 1h
4h Snake Eyes Nerf Sneakykiller29 4h
4h wPvP gank spec Ive always been horde, and I rolled this guy specifically to enjoy more world pvp. Im not looking for fair fights. Just open world fun. Im having a hard time with Assassination at my ilvl. Just cant burst down quick enough and blowing all cooldowns. What talents would be best suited currently for open world fights? Im doing better with outlaw, but still am newish to this rogue. Thanks!Varicko2 4h
6h Playing Outlaw in BFA Yo dawg I heard you like RNG in your RNG so we added roll the bones so you can RNG damage while you RNG for azerite pieces *Rolls 47 true bearings*Numbynutkins9 6h
7h Thinking of trying sin So this rogue has been my main since I started playing this game about 10 months ago. ive played sub the whole time and I really like it but I feel like we have just been neutered in pvp. Our dmg sucks rn. Im thinking of trying out sin but I've invested a lot of time into sub and I feel pretty comfortable on it. It would be nice to know how to play the spec but I'm not really interested in switching specs often just by whats flavor of the month. Will it probably be awhile before sub gets some help? Should I consider switching to Sin permanently? I feel like how the spec works its more likely to stay consistently mediocre-good. Seems like sub are being left in a bad place because of how oppressive they were off the very start of the expansion. it sucks more cuz I didn't even start pvping(other than world pvp) until the day after sub got the first round of nerfs lol, it was still fine then but now its bad. Granted all specs have been nerfed several times.Istealthl8 7h
7h between the eyes question does between the eyes add to blade flurry dmg when activated?Ouchhy0 7h
8h nightelf twink 19 (help me choose look) example: skin: 2 face: 1 hair style: 14 hair color: 8 markings: 5 choose for me and let me use your look while i destroy other plays!!Nephela1 8h
9h Tricks of Our Trade: Argus and Back Again [quote]In an attempt to bring the rogue community together, I say we follow in the footsteps of the Sentry Totem, Mangle: Bear, and more recently Power Word We have a few rules here but they're all easy: 1) Be nice, we're friends not food. 2) Fellow rogues aren't to be trusted but helping them isn't bad though. (Mind your wallet!) 3) Other classes come in here too sometimes. It's cool, they may be of use to us. 4) Most important is to have fun! This is an off-topic thread after all. Website: Anyone looking forward to anything specific with BfA?Gyroscope480 9h
9h Looking for advice from sub rogur Hi, i really enjoy the sub rogue playstyle, especially in pvp, but i want to also be able to do all content as a competitive dps. To arena 2k+ players, how much worse is a sub rogue compared to assn rogue in arena? Aside from the control, what benefit is it to play sub and what are its best comps? To raiders, is it possible to suceed in pve as sub? Is our aoe decent and can i level fast with it?Ihero2 9h
13h Any Burning Blademaster Rogues? Hi I was looking for some Burning Blademaster transmog inspiration. I already have a warrior so i rolled a Mag'har rogue. :)Amakas4 13h
15h Sharpened Blades trait question I got new chest w/ this trait on it and according to my sims & research this appears to be the best thing I have so far for any chest in my bags. Is it any good? Also, judging by the description it uses poisoned knife which I very rarely use in encounters because I'm usually always right up on the boss. Is this supposed to change your rotation?Ablemine2 15h
15h Sub BG’s? Or re-roll Sin I’m interested in starting battlegrounds, mostly random for now but as I get better I want to do it competitively. Now I play Sub for PvE, which I’m happy with, but does Sub have a place in battlegrounds? I havenMt found much info on Sub BG’s - it seems fan of knives Sin is the way to go? Sin has been interesting me lately but I don’f fancy playing 2 different specs for PvE/PvP so if there was a viable strat/talents for Sub I’d love to hear it!Nightraid9 15h
17h The strongest m+ spec? Hey all, m+ is my favorite type of content to run, and I'm leveling a rogue atm. What is the premier spec for the most optimal dps? I almost never see rogues in m+ to know what to use. I'd like to get used to the spec via leveling.Skoomad11 17h
18h Good rogues to watch on twitch? Hey, im interested in checking out some streamers who are high rated to see if i can pick up any tips. I tried watching a few players but they were being toxic to their team mates and also being toxic to their chat believe it or not, i do not wish to support any1 with a toxic behavior, so im wondering if anyone could recommend me some mature rogue players who are high rated on twitch? thank you.Broggar17 18h
18h Outlaw is best for BFA PvP, why? Can somebody explain why a lot of people are saying Outlaw will be the best PvP spec in BFA? Even Xaryu, who's one of the best PvP players out there has said Outlaw is looking like the best.Rampaged51 18h
19h LF help with arena Hi rogues, Am looking for general arena tips for assassination or outlaw specs. I main sin but I am open to playing outlaw in the future. I am a casual player but would like to improve my game once I find the right partners to grow with. What addons do you use for your UI that you find helpful in Arena? What macros do you find crucial for growth as a rogue. Anything rogue and arena that's constructive is welcome here. I do my best to enjoy the game through PvP. Am hoping this topic will start a constructive post that will help rogues improve their gameplay. Cheers Krem de la KremKrem8 19h
22h How Bad Is Outlaw? Just curious before I grind out another 60+ levels. Currently at level 40 even on lowbie dungeons I fall dead last in damage. Is it because im using two swords that have slow speed?Jârlaxle4 22h
23h Energy potions? We have health, mana, rejuv, and rage potions but are there energy potions or anything else to get my energy back? I'm fairly new to the rogue but he seems pretty cool so far. I have another toon that can make potions but I don't see anything for energy. Am I missing something? Is there any way to get it back faster?Hynloth9 23h
23h Pick Pocket Macros Not Looting Ever since I started leveling in BFA, my Pick Pocket macros have stopped working. The loot window opens, but it does not loot. Has anyone else experienced this? The Macros I'm using are similar to the one below. #showtooltip Ambush /cast Pick Pocket /cast AmbushSneakynachos6 23h
1d Picking Pockets for? Where's the lockboxes for picking pockets? In most x-pacs before WoD there was lockboxes that had a small (very small) chance of dropping epic dagger or sword. WoD and Legion had their own vender for the coins dropped while picking. So far I've picked at least 150-200 pockets from random mobs and gotten only few silver and some junk greys. Anyone know if this is it for pick pocketing in BfA? Hope not.Stabsolutly18 1d
1d Snake Eyes Nerf Who thought it was a smart idea to change snake eyes so it does half the damage, but has twice the charges... with the same duration? Outside of Adrenaline Rush, you will never go through all 10 stacks within 12 seconds. By the time the duration drops, you'll have 4-6 stacks left depending on procs. With that being said, this is a way bigger nerf than it looks on paper. Snake Eyes is one of the rotation changing and dynamic traits for outlaw and this unnecessary change will break it. There's no point taking a trait you can't get it's full value. Actually there is one faceroll build that can go through all 10 stacks within 12 seconds and I highly doubt you would want outlaw rogues to go down that rabbit hole in both PvP and PvE.Sneakykiller2 1d
1d Why is everyone using subterfuge? Nightstalker has always been the best choice, especially you guys using exsang. It buffs your longer lasting rupture by 50%. Why is subterfuge suddenly better? It has never been used in the past except as an option in m+ to garrote 3 targets. Just curious why everyone is suddenly taking this talent.Dilate33 1d
1d Please don't change snake eyes Please don't change snake eyes, its one of the few good traits we have as outlaw and its a funny one that makes the playstyle different, by changing it doubling the stacks with half the bonus it wont be worth running it, also the trait isnt even over performing to warrant this nerf. Outlaw is right now the only rogue spec where the traits are actually interesting and might alter your play style but some of them are undertunned like paradise lost and storm of steel. While deadshot and ace up your sleeve are performing great, others arent, snake eyes for example is only good when you are able to stack it.Gwynneth21 1d
1d Yeah Blizz keep nerfing. Blizzard, Your token value is falling and yet you continue to nerf the only fun classes left to play in your miserable excuse for an expansion. There isn't a single engaging mechanic added to the game via Azerite or any BFA content because you've now nerfed every interesting trait. You'e nerfed all 4 of my characters every week. I'm unsubbing as are 99.99% of all the people I know. Maybe next time you fail to come even remotely close to balancing your game why not buff the 'weak classes' instead of continuing to make people who grind and grind feel like their time was wasted because they just get nerfed.Letsgobby14 1d
1d Alliance Race for Rogue Dark Iron? Thinking of making a rogue for a MDPS Was thinking for what race to pick was thinking Dark iron would be optimal, What are the best races for alliance? I do a mix of pvp and pve.Anabolick21 1d
1d Is fathoms really worth it? In every dungeon or raid I go to, it only does like 2% of my damage. 2.5% at most. Yet on bloodmallet and sims, it ranks much higher than any other trinket, even ones 20-30 ilvl higher. What's your experience with it?Gghax10 1d
1d A negative stat weight??? (help?) not sure if this is a big deal or not but any insight would be rad. just simmed after getting a significant upgrade on my wrists 360 - 385, expected dps went up which is nice but the stat weights look odd - specifically the haste: Here's my %: Mast 50% / Vers 5.4% / Crit 20.7% / Haste 13.6% any ideas why Haste is showing as a negative? i dont have 2 sets of gear yet so not much i can do right now and i'm building right now with M+ in mind. thanks!Skiés13 1d
1d Rogue or DH I love RBGs, I love WPvP... thats about it. I love playing a Ninja in other MMOs and RPGs. I like mobility, shadows, burst, blowing people up in seconds. Very Ninja-esque gameplay but I feel no rogue spec makes me feel like a ninja (although rogue is normally the "go-to" class for this playstyle/theme) Actually, it seems DH has made me feel more like a ninja than rogue in WoW (a demonic ninja?). DH seems to have more burst, more mobility, and more fast pace combat. Am I wrong on this statement? Is DH more "ninja" like than rogues? I'm surprised Rogues dont have a single ninja transmog either after how many years WoW has been out. Closest thing is the "Assassination Set" but even that is atrocious when compared to a true "ninja" themed set. What are your guys' thoughts?Nayruin6 1d
1d Just gonna keep posting about sub Until by some miracle they take notice. Just look at this damage log, bare in mind this is with nightblade 15% damage buff and symbols........ Evis for 6.7k 2.8k Shadowstrikes 2.5k backstabs Nightblade CRITTING for 1.6k Hates rogues or not. We have three specs and barely anyone is playing two of them. How is that fine, I actually just afkd out of the bg because I think I will retire rogue for the meantime. I watched Pikaboo trying it in arena a few games and then nope...back to assassination.Dirtydancin23 1d
1d TMW help plz Im trying to set up Pistol Shot so that Opportunity shows up and not having luck so far. Is it a buff? Anyone using it?Raggnaross5 1d
1d Outlaw Tier 3 Talents Hey guys, So I roll with Outlaw and my main focus is on M+. My question is does DS or MfD become more viable than vigor in M+ and at what haste % do I switch over? I keep hearing 15% is the go to for outlaw granted, that's just theory. Currently unbuffed I sit at just over 11% haste and raidbots is still telling me to dump haste in favour of crit then vers. If I equip haste gear and sit at just over 17% unbuffed, vigor still comes out on top when I parse with crit and vers values increasing. Is there a haste breakpoint you can reach where you are able to ditch vigor in favour of the other two or, is it more of a dps gain to just roll with vigor and keep dumping haste for crit/vers? I have only started using raidbots about 4 weeks ago and I'm not too sure how to create such a scenario or if it is even possible to. I truly appreciate any pointers. Thanks allAsmodean3 1d
1d Outlaw talent diversity and balance Hello all, So I'm constantly tinkering and simming talents and discussing about it eith fellow rogues on ravenholdt and in game and I have few concerns about the perfomance of some of our talebts, mainly: Weapon master, ghostly strike and killing spree. Quick draw is miles ahead of both t1 talents, even with builds that should improve with the use of weapon master like storm of steel and snake eyes, ghostly strike on the other hand is on a very sad state, it underperforms on st, cleave and pvp and it doesnt have any support from azerite traits either (maybe it could benefit from snake eyes?). While killing spree is behind blade rush even on single target. Also killing spree got a massive nerf on pvp so right now it doesnt really feel like our nuke cooldown anymore... So what do other fellows here on the forums think about those points?Gwynneth4 1d
1d How much haste do I need? To instead take MfD and not notice it too much.Mithous8 1d
1d LF ROGUES for Machinima! Hello ! Strausin back again with another Class Chats casting call! This time around I'm looking for ROGUES If you're wondering what this is all about here is the previous episode: Druids So post below for your chance to be in the newest episode! Post as your character that you'd like used, I will not use armory links, thanks ! DISCLAIMER: By posting here you're giving me permission to use your character as I see fit. (There has been issues with people complaining as to how their toons were used, and this is here as a result)Strausin47 1d
1d Stealth Macro stopped Working I've had the same stealth macro since WotLK #showtooltip Vanish /cast !Stealth /use [Target=Party1] Tricks of the Trade This starting like 1 hour ago stopped putting me in stealth. "Spell not Learned." For people who don't / didn't have a macro like this, !Stealth meant you couldn't accidentally hit the button twice and take yourself out of stealth. Rewriting the macro without Tricks of the Trade doesn't fix anything. Removing ! from before Stealth does. Wth? Edit: Relogging fixed it. But what the actual heck? How did this bug occur? Spell not Learned? What?Vãrick4 1d
1d Sin the only fluid spec? hey all, just got back into WOW and decided to go for rogue this time. I love my hunter but would really like to try something new and rogue has always intrigued me. so I’ve gone thru the specs and played them out in the world a bit. It seem when leveling sin Is the only real spec. The other 2 just seem clunky and from what I’ve seen of the mobs so far, a buffed fan of knives is the way to go when questing. But what do I know. I’m a rogue newb lol. So what say you all? Is there a better leveling spec? do the other specs seem clunky to you? Maybe I just really like sin. Which would be great! I don’t need to min max I prefer to play what I enjoy.Jarrlaxle25 1d
1d Belf or Gobo? I've been playing around with a goblin rogue level 110. I guess he was on a timer because now I can't use him unless I unlock him. Fair enough. I wanted to see if I could get to Dalaran and get into the Thieves Guild and look around. I did. I found the Thistle Tea and a recipe for it as well. It's a COOKING recipe not alchemy. Pretty low too. 50 I think. I bought some tea and was on my way to mail it to my other rogues and POOF trial toon now locked. Now to my question. Which do you prefer/suggest and why, a Gobo or a BElf and why? I'm also not sure whether to play a pirate or an assassin. I like both but I'm only going to boost 1 character so I'm looking for advice please. As I mentioned in another post I'm solo. Usually. That will hopefully be changing soon when I move in with my nephew. He played a long time ago but is low on funds. I told him I'd pay for it so he could play too. Will see. Also a point out is that I don't do pvp at all so that may be a factor? Thanks for all your help/advice so far and in the future. It's really appreciated.Hynloth9 1d
1d Assassination has too much control Sub should be the master of control but assassination also has too much control. Double garrote is busted, they can cc players for like 15s. Thats insane.Dritolt12 1d
1d Did Rogues get a buff? Hey I wanted to check with the rogue community here. I looked into it out of curiosity but couldn't find anything on this. Up till this recent tuesday I've never really had an issue with rogues as a prot paladin, sure I've had some rly good fights with them and I accept losing to them especially since I am still gearing etc. But in a recent BG I ran into a rogue who would 100% to 0% me in 2sec tops. At first I thought it was something he may have been using special or so until I began arena'ing with a druid friend of mine for a bit. For the most part the rogues I fought were of as expected the better end compared to randoms in BGs and wpvp. then last night during an arena fight I was about 90% hp gained ground to throw an extra heal on my friend and suddenly the rogue ported to me, silenced me and I went from 90% to dead in bout 2seconds. I get it I am still only bout 350 ilvl and maybe stats are not the greatest at the moment but what is this? Did you guys get a buff? I am not QQing just honestly curious. And if it isn't some really rare fluke could you tell me what abilities or what it is I should probably look for? If I recall the rogue looked dark and shadowy so that must be a major sign aye? Edit: Forgot to mention that I looked for any buffs and found nothing in hotfixes that showed anything like this. And while I am not QQing I do think that whatever those two rogues were able to do was kinda OP as freak, 180k dmg in 2sec flat is strong but w/e each class gets OP and UP now and then been like this 14-15 years now. Thanks for all of the info!Colmannid14 1d
2d Snake eyes with rtb or snd? I have 3 snake eyes traits. Which do you guys like more, snd or rtb? Im using dual daggersMercader6 2d
2d Leveling and learning a Rogue Going to roll my first rogue (worgen). I want to focus on pvp. I haven't played dps or pvp'd in years. To get myself started with a rogue in pvp, which spec would ease me into the class but also be good for leveling?Ishmerai5 2d
2d 1v1/Wpvp Spec Hi Rogues! I know assas is the cats pj's right now, but what spec is best for 1v1 against the majority of classes and what spec is best for general Wpvp? I currently am most familiar with WW and just by looking at general abilities etc, Outlaw seems to look like the easiest transition for me, not to mention I like the playstyle it seems to be going for. ...I just don't want to be getting stomped by everyone (mobs included) cause it has poor survivability or something. So what do you guys think? Is outlaw pretty good for general pvp/wpvp/questing or is assass just too good to pass up right now?Mönks3 2d
2d Assassination resources - websites Since our class usually has the most number crunching, I'm looking for websites that offer those numbers in terms of how much haste, mastery and crit to stack, as well as comparative talents and relative dps?Nomadchef2 2d