Sep 25, 2018 Rogue Leveling FAQ (7.x) Updated: 12/17/16 for 7.x. This FAQ is for new rogues. It is full of simplifications and generalizations. The focus is on optimal leveling speed and viability. This is not how things will work for end game pve/pvp. Be sure to read though the notes, as I've tried to explain major exceptions and caveats. Bold/underline is direct question answer. But, as you will see, many choices can not be made in a vacuum. If any class is about experimentation and situational planning, the rogue class is and to fully understand the class, you will need to think this way as well. If you'd like, you can join the Ravenholdt discord server to chat with other rogues here: Or you can contact me on twitter or email. Twitter/Gmail: wavefunctionpAeriwen403 Sep 25, 2018
Jun 19, 2017 Roguedom: Common Rogue Q's & A's (Last updated July 20, 2018.) Raiding. Gear. Stats. Secrecy. Poison. Murder. Deceit. There's so much to know about being a rogue! What's a pirate-spy-ninja-sassin to do? Nothing. You're screwed. You'll never be any good. Oh! Sorry; force of forum habit -- I meant the opposite of that. Whether you're new to the class or a grizzled veteran, there's always more to learn about playing a rogue. In this thread, I’ll do my best to answer commonly asked questions on a range of rogue topics. At present I'm keeping this thread focused on end-game PvE questions only (i.e., primarily raid-relevant stuff). If you've got any suggestions, Q's you'd like to see A'd, corrections or general death threats, feel free to post in this thread, flip me the bird at @SvelteKumquat or email me at I look forward to completely ignoring your heartfelt messages.Rfeann231 Jun 19, 2017
Nov 1, 2016 Shadow Dance and the Stealth Bar We’ve been reading all of the feedback throughout beta regarding Shadow Dance and the desire to have it use the “Stealth action bar.” To get right to the point, after an upcoming hotfix, Subtlety Rogues will find that Shadow Dance swaps their main action bar to the alternate bar that is used while in Stealth. For a bit of context on the late change to our thinking on this: we rarely allow automatic functionality (such as action bar swaps, or macros) to choose between core damage abilities on the player’s behalf. We believe it’s important that the player has to make those choices themselves. The Rogue Stealth bar has always been a minor exception to this, but for many years, the Stealth bar was only active for the single ability you used to open a combat, and was not seen again for the duration of combat (other than with Vanish). The ability to bind your openers to the same buttons as your rotational abilities was a convenience that didn’t affect your use of abilities in combat. However, the new Shadow Dance (and to a lesser extent Subterfuge), has resulted in some Rogues regularly using openers during combat, as elements of their rotation. In this case, the Stealth bar changes from a minor convenience that lets you place once-per-combat buttons on more convenient keybinds, to actually making regular, mid-combat decisions for you. That said, after following the ongoing discussions and carefully considering your feedback, we understand the desire for consistency with other abilities that allow Stealth-only actions. Given the gray area that Shadow Dance is in, and the widespread feedback that using the Stealth bar would be more consistent and intuitive, we’ve decided to go ahead and allow Shadow Dance to once again swap your main action bar. This hotfix is scheduled to live with weekly restarts in each region. A few details for players who use macros to further manage their buttons: Shadow Dance will be treated similarly to Subterfuge for the purposes of macro conditionals. It will not activate [stealth], but it will activate [stance:2]. If you want to make a macro that mimics the behavior of the main bar (i.e. swapping when you have any of Stealth, Vanish, Subterfuge, or Shadow Dance), you can use the macro conditional [bonusbar:1].Ornyx127 Nov 1, 2016
Oct 26, 2010 Welcome Rogues: Please Read! Welcome to the Rogue forum! This forum is here to provide you with a friendly environment where you can discuss the rogue class with your fellow World of Warcraft players. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy, so we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct ( and guidelines ( before posting. Important Reminders: Search The search function at the top of the World of Warcraft community site is extremely effective and robust. Before you create a new forum topic, please be use it to search for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer for which you are looking. Making a new thread on an existing subject can result in your thread being deleted or, if you continue to re-post the same content, the loss of your forum privileges for spamming. Rating The forum rating system can be used to promote positive discussion, demote unhelpful comments, and even report posts that violate the forum Code of Conduct. By hovering over a post you'll be presented with several options, including a "thumbs up" (Like) and a "thumbs down" (Dislike) icon. Clicking the "thumbs up" icon will rate the post up. If enough people like a post, it will gain a Highly Rated status and appear at the top of related search results. Highly Rated posts will also have a highlighted background. Clicking the "thumbs down" icon will expand a drop-down menu which will include "Dislike," "Trolling, "Spam" and "Report" options. "Dislike" will rate the post down. If enough people dislike a post, it will be darkened, and with a lot of dislikes it will be hidden completely. You can also quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of a violation. Please note that you can only rate each post once. Use your power wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community. Have fun posting on these forums, and good luck with your adventures in Azeroth!Lylirra1 Oct 26, 2010
Nov 15, 2018 Will Snake Eyes be nerfed in 8.1? Title says it all.Roxanewatson11 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Removal of Deadly Brew Hmm, thoughts here folks?Maztao16 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Hey Blizzard Can Rogues get a finisher that actually finishes off another player. This weak sauce we have now is really getting old.Tavlina8 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Even Years After RTB It never seases to amaze me how stupid and pointless this RNG ability is and how sadly it's compulsory. Just spend attempts on mythic Vectis, some attempts sitting there for 1min before I get anything I need. Even with improvement it's still just such a pointless skill. Keep up SND while boring was at least not an RNGfest and something you could control. I hope one day this trash ability goes. 6 buffs all random, if you don't get 2 of 6 or 2 at once you reroll, I rerolled once 8x so basically that ends your whole attempt. In dungeons it's not so bad purely because you can MFD, anywhere else it's just a lottery ticket every 5-6 cps. Combat rogue was an awesome spec, the RTB addition and blade flurry changes are just pointless hindrance and stupid layers of RNG. Yeah I am venting, I used to love this spec and seeing it be like this is frustrating. It's bad enough the iconic talent of the build has to be SELECTED. Why don't they want to just admit overall RTB was is taking RNG too far?Loginerror2 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 outlaw NEEDS a DOT back in lich king rupture made a significant difference in dps during raids. also it helps with fighting other rogues in pvp with there vanish. maybe give rogues a DOT that activates with crits or finishing moves, maybe just crits and finishing moves and crits refresh the bleed?Mandree19 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Damage Charts I'm currently leveling a sin rogue, and I am CONSISTENTLY on the bottom of the damage charts for dungeons lol, is that normal for this spec or am i doing something horrendously wrong?Shadomaul3 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Best Ninja Transmog I'm looking for your guys' best "Ninja" transmogs! Let's see what everyone can come up with!Nayrvik23 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Outlaw PVP - Snakes Eyes I hear it's the way to go for Outlaw PVP, true?Wrayith18 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Outlaw PvP Help - Thug Cleave First of all... CHECK DA MOG DOE! But in all seriousness, wanted to start a conversation on outlaw pvp specifications. I run thug cleave, and I'm tryna get triple deadshot. My main question is how do we burst? Do I use my 6 cp (while not bursting) fishing for the sharkfin buff (pun intended) while not bursting? Then is my burst: on use + Tricks + B/w the eyes + Pistol Shot Proc --> Sinister Strike spam --> Evis? I feel like my dmg is so low playing combat. It might be due to gear, or me not knowing my class, but any help would be appreciated.Zóren7 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Rate that mog: Rogue Edition Hey everyone, I want to see the best rogue transmogs Azeroth has to offer. Be cool, have fun, and let’s see those mogs!Thresh495 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 daily reminder stealth broken yup. title. was just in an EOTS and i was stealthing around trying to get some kills and then a warrior somehow sees me and charges me out of no where. feels bad man and its been happening for months. no i wasnt in a flare no i had no dots i pay money to play this game so it would kinda be cool to get it fixedRayu4 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 RtB is rather confusing for a newbie It really is a weird ability to get use to. I'm currently leveling my rogue, and every time I use it, I basically stop to look at the buffs and see what i got. It doesn't seem to alter my rotation, other than if I get the BtE buff. Just a bunch of passive buffs. I'm thinking of just using SnD, is it a viable option? Or do you just constantly reroll until you get a certain buff combo?Executioner9 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Best Rogue Spec in BFA? Which one is the best?Zolldyk31 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 370 Permafrost vs 355 Darkmoon Fathoms I have a 370 Dooms Wake and a 355 Darkmoon Deck: Fathoms trinket. I picked up a 370 Permafrost Encrusted Heart on a world boss re-roll. MrRobot is saying the Permafrost trinket is 58th and the Darkmoon is #1. I don't understand how that's possible when the permafrost trinket has a chance to boost my agility every 3 seconds for 15 seconds. is it really that bad? I'd really like the iLvl boost. Seems like a waste to not use it..Satchem5 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Rogue opener? Hi I'm stuck at 1900-2k rating, having problems with a good opener. I play rmp and I'm just confused on how to open really. I try to garrote, mutilate to get 5cp, then rupture into a kidney. Then mut into envenom. My mage uses combustion on the opener and i save my vendetta until the second go after defensive. My mage complain on the opener that I dont stun and let him hit his meteor but if I use cheap shot then my kidney is DR'd. Any advice or help or what I should do? How to open differently or better, how to burst better.Opiax7 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 PvP Traits What azerite traits are you guys finding useful for Assassinatin PvP. Specifically BG’sTavlina6 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 blizzards assasin favoritism In 8.1 they are leaving assasin virtually untouched. Meanwhile they and nerfing sub a ton.Stungodx17 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 RtB bad luck protection Could we make it so if you reroll within 10 seconds that you can't get the same roll you just got? Or have it increase the probability of +2? Getting the same !@#$ roll 4x in a row is pretty terrible.Nicholasfury5 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Battle field focus Anyone double or triple stacking battle field focus? I chose to take the plus main stat proc shoulders over the battle field focus and its really good, like really good, but i also cant help to notice how much my battle field focus is doing on my 7th legion piece. If you are double stacking and even triple stacking it how good do you feel that it is? Just asking for opinions and reasoning behind it.Kodash0 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 13, 2018 3 months in BFA and stealth... is still broken. how can a warrior stun me 2 seconds after i press my vanish button? plz fix this its been broke for a long time dudesRayu3 Nov 13, 2018
Nov 13, 2018 I thought rogue was cool at first then i leveled my druid its like a rogue on crack. i can literally just dot the crap out of some1 from stealth, insta root, run away and watch them bleed out as i re stealth. most dps cant heal so this gives me a huge advantage. just pillar hump, and heal myself back to full then i can jump back in with another stun, add more dots, insta root and get outta there + heal up. rogues cant do that if things get bad i can just go bear form aka tank form and take almost no damage. also i can heal my team mates if they get in trouble. feral drood = rogue on steroids and crack its so much fun, i highly suggest people try it.Rayu8 Nov 13, 2018
Nov 13, 2018 Which rogue spec for...? So I’m heard for aoe combat is best, for single target sub is best... where does assassination sit? Or am I off on this? This post is raid/mythic oriented... is assassination just for PvP and leveling? What for is best for questing anyway?Ambèr4 Nov 13, 2018
Nov 13, 2018 Vanish bugged again Why does every time i vanish after 3 sec it breaks with nothing hitting me or any dots on me.. this is really game losingWarbaby4 Nov 13, 2018
Nov 13, 2018 Let's see all the mythic Zul Rogue alts! I wanna see all your guys's alts for mythic zul sub rogue stacking before the forums reset! :D still don't have the kill but we just started him this week. think we got a good chance to down him after reset next week!Spaceship4 Nov 13, 2018
Nov 13, 2018 leveling a rogue he's level 76 right now and outlaw destroys sin in damage but I heard sin was the best spec, what level does sin become better?Chuangso6 Nov 13, 2018
Nov 13, 2018 FoK combo point generation... I notice its a bit off? For instance, lets say i am in the middle of 5 enemies. Sometimes i will FoK and get full combo points from a single FoK Other times, even when im still surrounded by 5 enemies, i will FoK and will only get one combo point? Anyone know why? Thank youRayu3 Nov 13, 2018
Nov 13, 2018 paladins started to one shoot me what's going on? any suggestion against them?Alfredd3 Nov 13, 2018
Nov 13, 2018 Between the eyes and snake eyes viable? Would it be worth a shot to combine snake eyes with between the eyes or does stacking SE 3x out do it too much to compare?Speedyspark2 Nov 13, 2018
Nov 13, 2018 Rogue Stealth Question Played a rogue in Legion, and everything seemed normal for what I know of them for the last decade, but... Playing a mage now, and noticed that I can't seem to detect rogues in stealth, ever. Lvl 20's in Redridge, never see them. Level 120s in BGs, never see them either. Did they get a super stealth buff since legion that I missed? I know they're there. Close enough to sap me, but never even so much as a "wshhh" stealth sound to say I've noticed them.Pneumonia6 Nov 13, 2018
Nov 13, 2018 For old timed sake... during the last hours of these forums: Damn it Blizzard, nerf rogues!Lettuceprey3 Nov 13, 2018
Nov 13, 2018 Rogue Macro Kick How can i make a macro for when i press "r" i land a kick on my target, but if i press shift R i shadowstep kick my focus target?Motegii5 Nov 13, 2018
Nov 13, 2018 Arena stats As rogue should i be focusing Haste/Mastery? i see some of the top rogues have mixed stats.. so im confused how i should be gearing..Motegii4 Nov 13, 2018
Nov 13, 2018 So, Sub Rogues... you sometimes find yourself popping Shadow Dance just because you realized you forgot to loot a pocket or two before a fight, or is that just me?Manta0 Nov 13, 2018
Nov 13, 2018 Finally My Luck Has Turned :). Been farming weapons for too long. Two in one kill.. I'll take them!Dinamic3 Nov 13, 2018
Nov 13, 2018 Best way to aoe farm with assassination? Advice pls.Milarepa3 Nov 13, 2018
Nov 13, 2018 Rogue talent question. "Prey on the weak" talent. So what i don't understand how much the damage % actually is. 10% or 5%? I checked out Sensus's guide to Assassination rouge PvP. He said this talent was nerfed. But, in wowhead's DB I see the talent having 10%. So if it's nerfed, then i want to see where are these changes. Also in-game i see 10%. I'm confused. So, can anyone clarify? Share some links?Morgreth6 Nov 13, 2018
Nov 12, 2018 All Rogue specs should have poisons again Our class icon says it all. Enough said.Mafic34 Nov 12, 2018
Nov 12, 2018 Buff Sub DMG Im leveling this character from level 1, and I swapped specs for fun every couple levels. Now i realize this isn't science, but Outlaw just out preforms Subtly so much, there is no point in playing it. It's a shame because I like the playstyle. EDIT: wrong spec, i meant SubtlyPdn7 Nov 12, 2018
Nov 12, 2018 Key Binding for PvP help Anybody have any better ways i can key bind? everyone says to do whats comfortable but im trying to improve in arena, ive looked up tons of guides but nothing helps due to i use a 12 button naga, i use 12345,e,r,t,f,z,x,c and all my 12 button on mouse.. guess my issue is idk what to put on my mouse.. i have my mainly all my cool downs on my mouse offensive and defensive but i feel like i need to learn something else to put macros and stuff on my mouse. what are some tips or how do you guys key bind? if you have a naga what do you put on there?Motegii6 Nov 12, 2018
Nov 12, 2018 Rogue build question So after I hit max level and start to grind dungeons, raids, and daily stuff to get geared, what spec would you recommend? Im currently outlaw following a noxic guide, but I dont think I am going to like it end game stuff.Guilly11 Nov 12, 2018
Nov 12, 2018 Death From Above How many people use it? just wondering I like it because it makes my hardest hitting ability (eviscerate) stronger and its a gap closer, plus it looks badass :D looks like cloud braver from ff7Stillstylin4 Nov 12, 2018
Nov 12, 2018 Current state of BFA and Fathoms worth it? Just curious what you all think...with 8.1 coming out in December, do you think it's worth it to buy Darkmoon Deck: Fathoms? Thing is going for 40-50 k on my server (im poor only rocking 62k atm). I'm worried this will be a silly short term investment cuz the new content items will just be better than Fathoms. Just sick of the RNG and trying to gain some control over my items.Gindjinn8 Nov 12, 2018
Nov 12, 2018 Assa PvP: Deadly Brew vs Wound Poison What's the better combo??? I've been using Deadly Brew's 18% MS talent, assuming that's also what Wound Poison was. But then I just checked, and Wound Poison is a 30% MS! That's insane! But is it worth the damage drop for not going Deadly Poison? Wound Poison can only instant proc for about 250 damage (this is all rough, according to my current gear). Deadly Poison can do about 5k damage over 12 seconds (not that much) and then instant proc for about 500 after that. Altogether, that's not too bad, and of course it's nature damage so that's always great (especially with Toxic Blade). But... 30% MS! What do??????Overdoneäpm6 Nov 12, 2018
Nov 12, 2018 Assassination rogues and Daggers Unfortunately, my Assassination rogue is going into temporary retirement due to the lack of sources that daggers drop from. The real insult to injury was today when I logged in and found I had 3 world quest rewards that resulted in weapon drops and not one of them resulted in a weapon for Assassin or Subtlety Rogues. I've been to the bug forum, general forum, and even submitted a bug ticket. I've had enough of this nonsense for now. Blizzard doesn't want to listen or doesn't have the resources devoted to the support of this game to keep gameplay issues like this from occuring. Before you start flaming me, I've been playing this game for 12 + years and have seen all the growing pains from patch to patch and expansion to expansion. Today marks the first day that I have had to bench a toon that I enjoyed playing because of a lack of acknowledgement from the game maker that there is a fundamental problem with their WQ loot system. A perfect example is that I main spec my Warrior as Protection. Today I logged in as Arms and I have a WQ weapon reward for my Prot spec. A few days prior, I logged in a Prot spec and had a WQ weapon reward for Arms.Evessa18 Nov 12, 2018
Nov 12, 2018 The Shredder TMNT If Oroku Saki from TMNT was a rogue in World of Warcraft. What spec would he be? Assassin- Pro Clearly a Ninja Con - Can't use Fist Weapons as main hands Outlaw- Pro Leads the Crime Organization called The Foot Clan Con Pistol Shot The Shredder does not use guns Subtlety- Pro Again a Ninja Con - Can't use Fist Weapons as main hands Would Role play and no turtles would make it to the waterMegabeef1 Nov 12, 2018
Nov 12, 2018 Ideas for how to improve Venom Rush Like most, I solely play Toxic Blade or Exsanguinate because they just offer way more dps - however I did a lot of testing with VR on dummies the other day and I noticed it really frees up your rotation. Especially when combined with the Poisoned Wire azerite trait and Master Assasin Talent. My APM skyrocketed, Mutilates crit over 60% of the time, and I could reliably get off at least 3 full CP envenoms before refreshing dots. However even with that big increase to my CP generation & APM- I still did significantly lower dps than using toxic or exsanguinate. There is clearly some room for tuning, Before I offer ideas here is how I see the talents intended purpose: Toxic Blade: transfers more power into Envenom/Poisons. Exsanguinate: transfers more power into Bleeds Venom Rush: transfers more power into CP generation (increasing the amount of finishers) Here are some potential ideas of how to improve VR. Option 1: Increase the base energy refunded 1: Since Venom Rush is intended to increase CP generation, this tells me that the variance in dps between the other options are a result of the energy refund not being large enough to generate sufficient additional finishers to overcome the gap. An increase to the energy refund, lets say 10 instead of 5, could possibly close this. Option 2: Keep energy same, but empower Mutilate Since the other talents transfer power into bleeds/finisher damage, what if VR transferred power into Mutilate's damage directly? Mutilate makes up such a tiny portion of our dps in comparison to our other abilities, so I think there is room for improvement there if you are willing to sacrifice Toxic Blade or Exsanguinate. Maybe include a feature similar to Double Dose trait where Mutilate does extra damage if the target has poisoned applied (hence, "venom rush")? Option 3: Keep energy same, make mutilate lower the cooldown of Vendetta. This could obviously be a hard one to balance, but what if each mutilate cast lowered the cooldown of mutilate by 1 or 2 seconds? Similar to how finishers lower the cooldowns of Shadow Dance/Secret Technique for Subt rogues? I think this could be a very interesting and fun change, but may take away one of the unique aspects of subt. What do you think can be done to improve Venom Rush? I'd love to hear your thoughts! Thanks for listening. CheersStabalicious8 Nov 12, 2018