Rogue

4d Rogue Leveling FAQ (7.x) Updated: 12/17/16 for 7.x. This FAQ is for new rogues. It is full of simplifications and generalizations. The focus is on optimal leveling speed and viability. This is not how things will work for end game pve/pvp. Be sure to read though the notes, as I've tried to explain major exceptions and caveats. Bold/underline is direct question answer. But, as you will see, many choices can not be made in a vacuum. If any class is about experimentation and situational planning, the rogue class is and to fully understand the class, you will need to think this way as well. If you'd like, you can join the Ravenholdt discord server to chat with other rogues here: https://discord.gg/gPv7ag2 Or you can contact me on twitter or email. Twitter/Gmail: wavefunctionpAeriwen388 4d
Dec 30 Roguedom: Common Rogue Q's & A's (Last updated Oct. 21, 2016.) Whether you're new to the class or a grizzled veteran, there's always more to learn about playing a rogue. In this thread, I’ll do my best to answer commonly asked questions on a wide range of topics relevant to every level and breed of rogue. At present I'm keeping this thread to PvE questions only; I'll fill in PvP gaps in the future. If you've got any suggestions, Q's you'd like to see A'd, corrections or general death threats, feel free to post in this thread, flip me the bird at @SvelteKumquat or email me at sveltekumquat@gmail.com. I look forward to completely ignoring your messages. :)Rfeann228 Dec 30
Nov 3 Jo's Compendium of Mutilating: Seeya in 7.0! DISCLAIMER: This guide is outdated currently! It will likely not be updated until a few weeks after Legion launches. Until then, I will be changing things over time, so don't be surprised if things don't make sense! The tell all guide to assist you in plunging two daggers into the heart of Archimonde! Learn how to maximize your defense! Be the envy of the other melee in the raid! Live through extreme damage! Pull more burst than ever before! Be the prize member of your raid team! (Warning: Do not attempt any of the practices in this guide unless you are an Assassination spec'd Rogue!) ~Changelog~ 10/16/14 - The Iron Tide crashes into Azeroth! Made my first pass at updating the guide for the new patch and decorated the hidden gumdrops with spikes of iron and bone. 10/18/14 - Herped my derp and missed some things with the 6.0.2 patch update, changed the stat section. Began the Great Changelog Purge to prevent having the changelog become half the guide. 10/22/14 - Found more missed parts of the guide, mostly wording to things that aren't around anymore like profession bonuses. Updated gem section and some talent descriptions. 11/10/14 - Updated rotation section to reflect the pandemic changes affecting Envenom. 11/14/14 - Started updating the guide for Warlords of Draenor. 11/17/14 NEW N' TASTY! Finished updating to level 100 Warlords. Combined enchant and gem section, eliminated some outdated wording, added new glyph recommendations, added new talent tier, reworked stat priorities, changed rotation guidelines and covered everything in a delicious Lemon Zest. Removed Herobrine. 11/19/14 - Made some changes to the 100 talent tier section. and expanded on the rotation section to accommodate for Shadow Reflection. 11/21/14 - Changed the enchant recommendations, elaborated more on multi-target section. Released the Molten Corgis. 12/02/14 - Expanded on the rotation section. 01/06/15 - It's a new year! Finally got off my lazy butt and updated example fights for talent descriptions. Also updated the enchantment section. 01/17/15 - Added a paragraph on Vanish and Premeditation into the rotation section, expanded on Vendetta section. Changed some syntax and grammar choices. Removed all parasprites and sent them back to the Everfree Forest. 02/02/15 - BRF OR BUST! Began updating the guide for Blackrock Foundry. Lamented that 'Blackrock n' Roll' doesn't fit as the new tag line. 02/19/15 - Stopped being lazy and updated enchant section to reflect Shattered Hand losing value. 02/25/15 - Updated Leeching Poison for the new changes in 6.1. Removed Herobrine. Or added. I forget at this point. 03/02/15 - Updated the foreword section with another communication option. 06/29/15 - Patch time! Started updating the guide for 6.2: Fury of Hellfire. 09/3/15 - I'm still alive! Finished updates for 6.2... Almost three months after the patch came out. Changed references to Premeditation to Preparation. 04/27/16 - Since there's very likely to be no update until Legion, I had some fun with the title. Compendium of Mutilating 1. Your Initiation - Foreword (J1): 2. Your Tools - Common Terms, Abilities and Abbreviations (J2): 3. Your Build - Talents and Glyphs (J3): 4. Your Gear - Stats, Enchanting and Gemming (J4): 5. Your Cunning - Common Tips, Tricks and Strategems (J5): 6. Your Victory - Afterword (J6): ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Your Initiation - Foreword (J1) The first spec on your left, Assassination has classically been a bit of an oddball spec. Originally following the same path as the Arcane spec for Mages, in the early days of the old talent point system, most Rogues only ventured into the tree for Seal Fate, a talent that gave extra combo points on critical combo point generating moves like Backstab and Sinister Strike, or for Cold Blood, a now deprecated talent that used to ensure a critical strike on your next ability. As it went through expansions it slowly began to gain traction until Cataclysm, when Assassination was able to hold it's own against the other two specs. Now, Assassination is as competitive, if not more so, than Combat and Sub. The rotation is simple and requires less management than the other two specs and pulls exceptional numbers. Assassination has come a long way from it's origins. This compendium will help you identify common Rogue terms, maximize your gear, talents and glyphs, and perfect your strategy in raid encounters during patch 6.0.3: Warlords of Draenor. Most of the advice in this guide will focus on preparing you for Blackrock Foundry (Which releases on February 2nd.) but should apply just as well to previous raid tiers and other content. If you have any questions or suggestions, please, feel free to leave them in a reply to this thread! I'll get back to you as soon as possible. I also have a Twitter! Just send a tweet to @JoTheRogue to chat! ... Your Tools - Common Terms, Abilities and Abbreviations (J2) Common Terms AP - Attack Power Crit - Critical Strike Rating Mastery - Mastery Rating Multi - Multistrike Rating Vers - Versatility Haste - Haste Rating CD - Cooldown GCD - Global Cooldown Common Assassination Abilities and Abbreviations (Stuff that should be on your bars) Mutilate (Mut) Dispatch Marked for Death (MfD) Shuriken Toss (Toss) Rupture (Rup) Garrote Cheap Shot (CS) Kidney Shot (KS) Envenom Slice and Dice (SnD) Recuperate (Recup) Shadowstep (Step) Burst of Speed (BoS) Sprint Deadly Poison Leeching Poison Crippling Poison (Crip) Gouge Blind Kick Feint Evasion Combat Readiness Stealth Vanish Fan of Knives (FoK) Crimson Tempest (Tempest) Vendetta Smoke Bomb Cloak of Shadows (Cloak, CloS) Sap Venom Rush (Rush, VR, Lemon Zest) Shadow Reflection (SR) Death from Above (DfA) Non-Assassination Abilites and Abbreviations (Things that can't be on your bars, for reference) Hemorrhage (Hemo) Backstab (BS) Shadow Dance (ShD) Sinister Strike (SS) Blade Flurry (Flurry, BF) Killing Spree (Spree) Revealing Strike (RS) Adrenaline Rush (AR)Jokaste263 Nov 3
Nov 1 Shadow Dance and the Stealth Bar We’ve been reading all of the feedback throughout beta regarding Shadow Dance and the desire to have it use the “Stealth action bar.” To get right to the point, after an upcoming hotfix, Subtlety Rogues will find that Shadow Dance swaps their main action bar to the alternate bar that is used while in Stealth. For a bit of context on the late change to our thinking on this: we rarely allow automatic functionality (such as action bar swaps, or macros) to choose between core damage abilities on the player’s behalf. We believe it’s important that the player has to make those choices themselves. The Rogue Stealth bar has always been a minor exception to this, but for many years, the Stealth bar was only active for the single ability you used to open a combat, and was not seen again for the duration of combat (other than with Vanish). The ability to bind your openers to the same buttons as your rotational abilities was a convenience that didn’t affect your use of abilities in combat. However, the new Shadow Dance (and to a lesser extent Subterfuge), has resulted in some Rogues regularly using openers during combat, as elements of their rotation. In this case, the Stealth bar changes from a minor convenience that lets you place once-per-combat buttons on more convenient keybinds, to actually making regular, mid-combat decisions for you. That said, after following the ongoing discussions and carefully considering your feedback, we understand the desire for consistency with other abilities that allow Stealth-only actions. Given the gray area that Shadow Dance is in, and the widespread feedback that using the Stealth bar would be more consistent and intuitive, we’ve decided to go ahead and allow Shadow Dance to once again swap your main action bar. This hotfix is scheduled to live with weekly restarts in each region. A few details for players who use macros to further manage their buttons: Shadow Dance will be treated similarly to Subterfuge for the purposes of macro conditionals. It will not activate [stealth], but it will activate [stance:2]. If you want to make a macro that mimics the behavior of the main bar (i.e. swapping when you have any of Stealth, Vanish, Subterfuge, or Shadow Dance), you can use the macro conditional [bonusbar:1].Ornyx127 Nov 1
Oct 26, 2010 Welcome Rogues: Please Read! Welcome to the Rogue forum! This forum is here to provide you with a friendly environment where you can discuss the rogue class with your fellow World of Warcraft players. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy, so we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct (http://us.battle.net/en/community/conduct) and guidelines (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/15252595157) before posting. Important Reminders: Search The search function at the top of the World of Warcraft community site is extremely effective and robust. Before you create a new forum topic, please be use it to search for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer for which you are looking. Making a new thread on an existing subject can result in your thread being deleted or, if you continue to re-post the same content, the loss of your forum privileges for spamming. Rating The forum rating system can be used to promote positive discussion, demote unhelpful comments, and even report posts that violate the forum Code of Conduct. By hovering over a post you'll be presented with several options, including a "thumbs up" (Like) and a "thumbs down" (Dislike) icon. Clicking the "thumbs up" icon will rate the post up. If enough people like a post, it will gain a Highly Rated status and appear at the top of related search results. Highly Rated posts will also have a highlighted background. Clicking the "thumbs down" icon will expand a drop-down menu which will include "Dislike," "Trolling, "Spam" and "Report" options. "Dislike" will rate the post down. If enough people dislike a post, it will be darkened, and with a lot of dislikes it will be hidden completely. You can also quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of a violation. Please note that you can only rate each post once. Use your power wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community. Have fun posting on these forums, and good luck with your adventures in Azeroth!Lylirra1 Oct 26, 2010
6m Anyone play Outlaw in NH? Trying to decide if I'm taking my frost mage or rogue here to NH - how was outlaw performance? I'm hoping really good because of adds/cleave, but sustained over the course of a boss fight? I dunno, so I'm asking you.Dovathuil9 6m
9m Tricks of Our Trade: Bag of Nerfs ... Let's see if this one gets me in trouble.Relikar289 9m
11m Problem in 2s/bg Sup guys! I started playing with a DH in 2s. Its REALLY hard for me to survive more than 10 sec in 2s. My damages are good if i can set my burst but most of the time i don't even have the time to do my opener and im dead. Even with evasion, im stunlock to death and evasion becomes useless. Im using faint too . I play rogue and ret. I really like my rogue and want to main it but i die in a second. Any tips for me? I know it is probably a skill issue but anyway...Râvën12 11m
14m Your Guide to Topping Charts: Sin NH Update! Guide to Assassin Author Disclaimer: As of 1/17/2017 I'll now be releasing the current results I have found with my testings after the big rebalances! Please note that due to such large changes happening so suddenly things are subject to still be altered. All of the testing was done with an 885 37 Trait Assassin with no legendaries for testing. Spec Overview: Assassin is a fantastic single target raider and performs well in high mobility fights - Extremely Strong Single Target dps - Quick cooldowns for bursting down high priority adds - Minimal loss of dps when performing mechanics due to the nature of bleeds and poisons - Very good cleave dps - Strong multi-target dps - Good Target Mobility - DO WE EVEN HAVE A WEAKNESS TEAM? Key Elements To Assassin: - Extreme management of CP, Energy, and cooldowns - Considerable white damage time in between bursts - More about strategizing than getting a perfect 65 APM rotation (Outlaw) Talents I'll be hitting up on all of the viable/or past viable talent setups to explain how each one compares to each other and themselves after the rebalance. Tier 1: MP, EP, or Hemorrhage? Master Poisoner: Master Poisoner is a strong talent to take especially with the recent buffs to poison damage. Often it is the strongest talent to choose for cleave and multi-target fights and offers neck-to-neck ST dps compared to the other talents. Master Poisoner also has latent scaling, as you get more mastery it becomes more effective increasing how awesome it is. Elaborate Planning: The 3% Nerf to it's effectiveness put it slightly behind MP in all cases with AP in the mix, however with our AP receiving the 2.5% damage nerf itself, EP might become viable. Testing will need to be done to compare the two. Until then however the rest of the guide will be written based on the previous results of EP being slightly worse than MP for AP. Hemorrhage: I personally feel like this talent has fallen out of it's prime. I don't see much use for it. It pulls good damage no doubt but the other two outshine it in their own respective strengths leaving this talent second rate in most situations. Tier 2: Nightstalker or Subterfuge? Nightstalker probably outweighs Subterfuge in most ST cases. However I have seen very comparable numbers to NS with Subterfuge getting buffed and the fact that we no longer use Deeper Stratagem as our main talent. Tier 3: After DS nerf, Deeper Stratagem or Vigor? After the DS nerf and Re-work on our rupture scaling, Vigor in almost all situations outscales/beats both Anticipation and DS (I personally see better numbers with Exsang builds as well). So For T3 Vigor is practically a must in my eyes. Tier 6: Agonizing Poison or Exsanguinate Agonizing Poison: AP is a talen that gives you a flat damage scaling based on a flat bonus and a mastery scaled bonus. Now with the rebalance granting a 10% higher application rate, it's effectiveness in add-switching and a myriad of other situations other than just ST is far higher than it's previous iteration. AP, even with the upcoming nerf (1/17/2017) will most likely be our strongest talent. Exsanguinate: Exsanguinate had receieved a 20% bleed nerf when I was in the midst of my testings. After they had reverted that nerf I did not have the chance to go back and do extensive testings again to compare the two specs. My first inclination is to say that AP will still be better in almost all situations, but for anyone who wants to offer valuable input either supporting or refuting my claim is welcome to do so. Tier 7: Venom Rush, or Maybe DFA?? Venom Rush: Venom Rush has been our strongest T7 since the start of the expansion, and honestly it still seems to be the case. Our Energy returns from it only compliment the new playstyle with Vigor and provides a fast, fun, and fluid rotation that allows for active target switching or consistent sustained damage on ST. Death From Above: Oh how thoroughly I tested this talent the world will never know. I've probably done more iterations of testing with this talent than any other talent out there. The reason being is because it's a secret favorite of so many of us, but just never quite stacked up to the powerhouse that Venom Rush is. Pre-Master Assassin nerf, DfA was actually giving me comparable numbers to VR at only a very slight dps loss over all, but had a much higher dps potential if you got lucky on crits. (I was sustaining 650ish on few fights, rng is like Outlaw in that regard, you have to get lucky on every DFA proc for it to do well.) However after the MA nerf, DfA started to fall behind. As our rotation got more clunky and our overall energy return slowed down it became apparent that DfA was once again not in the race to be a ST competitor. Alas all is not lost, When it comes to 2-3 target fights, DfA actually outperforms if only slightly than VR. So for those of you who really like pushing the envelope on your class, or simply love DfA. I'm pretty confident to say that it is now a viable option for cleave fights. Stat Priorities and talent combinations So before I really shoot off any numbers I'd like to preface this with I'm still in the midst of testing for the most effective combination, but as of 1/17/2017 these are the results of what I've seen over the course of 120-150mil raid training dummy sessions. MP/Vigor/AP: As of 1/17/2017 This is the currently one of the strongest talent setups for Assassin. It offers high versatility, great cleave dps, great ST dps, as well as giving us a very fluid rotation due to our high energy return. Stat Allotment: Currently in the process of refining but testings from multiple people appear to garnish the best results with these stat spreads: Crit: You want to hover anywhere from 31-39%, the reason we have a lower crit threshold than before is two things; Firstly we have a harder time generating the old levels of crit due to the double crit nerf we received, and secondly with the rework of the talents and not choosing DS, mastery starts outscaling Crit. The reasons for this occuring could be many, one possibly being with only 5 CP, we would often lose cp when either of our Mutilate procs crits, resulting in a loss of cp generation thus resulting in a loss of dps. Instead we opt to simply go for less CP generation by default (not necessarily hindering our dps due to the gated mechanic of 5 CP with vigor), and go for a flat damgae increase, which happens to be mastery for this talent setup. Mastery: Pump everything else into this badboy. It really starts to shine at around 140-150% mastery, and only gets better as it gets higher. Unsure of the results come AP nerf 1/17/2017, but likely you'll just need a higher mastery base. Versatility: I haven't done the math to find out the appropriate vers scaling for our now very high mastery stacking. I'm sure some small amount of vers will provide a better stat spread than simply dumping the rest into mastery, but those numbers currently elude me. So If you have small amounts of vers fret not, you are probably going about this in the right direction, I just don't have the numbers for the perfect setup yet. Any information on this with testing behind it is welcomed. Pro's to this build: Strong build, lots of buttons to press Fun build, lots to do especially as an Assassin Low-ish Ramp up time Con's to this build: For an Assassin, not really a lot of weaknesses. This setup covers the base in almost every situation. Slightly harder to manage than before due to a higher overall APM. (That's a good thing for me though, I like difficult specs) DPS Estimates for an 885 Ilvl Rogue w/ 37 Traits: Dps Results are Post 1/17/2017 AP Nerf 100-150Mil tests resulted in 480-550k DPS. With so many more finishers in this rotation than in previous iterations of Assassin, we are seeing a large increase in both BoTA and BoT procs, thus effectively offering a much wider swing in dps variation. We've become a stronger spec no doubt, but we also obtained a higher rng component than before. Note that this is only for shorter fights, I generally see our dps stabilize pretty comfortably the longer a fight goes on. EP/Vigor/AP: For those of you who hate MP (Although now it's literally the same playstyle), EP offers decent dps at a slight loss compared to the former. Other than wanting a slightly higher crit base, the rest of the spec mirrors it's MP rival. (After the 1/17/2017 Nerf goes through, testing on this setup's viability will once again need to be checked. Prepare for updates on the matter as the week goes through.) Stat Allotment: Currently in the process of refining but testings from multiple people appear to garnish the best results with these stat spreads: Crit: You want to hover anywhere from 35-43%, the reason we have a lower crit threshold than before is two things; Firstly we have a harder time generating the old levels of crit due to the double crit nerf we received, and secondly with the rework of the talents and not choosing DS, mastery starts outscaling Crit. The reasons for this occuring could be many, one possibly being with only 5 CP, we would often lose cp when either of our Mutilate procs crits, resulting in a loss of cp generation thus resulting in a loss of dps. Instead we opt to simply go for less CP generation by default (not necessarily hindering our dps due to the gated mechanic of 5 CP with vigor), and go for a flat damgae increase, which happens to be mastery for this talent setup. Mastery: Pump everything else into this badboy. It really starts to shine at around 140-150% mastery, and only gets better as it gets higher. Unsure of the results come AP nerf 1/17/2017, but likely you'll just need a higher mastery base. Versatility: I haven't done the math to find out the appropriate vers scaling for our now very high mastery stacking. I'm sure some small amount of vers will provide a better stat spread than simply dumping the rest into mastery, but those numbers currently elude me. So If you have small amounts of vers fret not, you are probably going about this in the right direction, I just don't have the numbers for the perfect setup yet. Any information on this with testing behind it is welcomed. Pro's to this build: Strong build, lots of buttons to press Fun build, lots to do especially as an Assassin Low-ish Ramp up time Con's to this build: For an Assassin, not really a lot of weaknesses. This setup covers the base in almost every situation, albeit from all testing slightly weaker than the MP variant. Slightly harder to manage than before due to a higher overall APM. (That's a good thing for me though, I like difficult specs) DPS Estimates for an 885 Ilvl Rogue w/ 37 Traits: Dps Results are Post 1/17/2017 AP Nerf 100-150Mil tests resulted in 455-530k DPS. EP(Or MP)/DS/AP: Dps Results are Post 1/17/2017 AP Nerf For those of you who used this setup(Pretty much all of us) I regret to inform you that with nerfs to both EP, DS, and the rework of rupture this setup has for the most part been put out of comission. I would strongly recommend looking at changing talent setups. The results with this setup after the rebalance were very grim. DS for AP is just not a very viable option. Please look into another option. Pro's to this build: Soz fam, I haven't seen any. Con's to this build: Much weaker after the many nerfs it received. DPS Estimates for an 885 Ilvl Rogue w/ 37 Traits: 100-150Mil tests resulted in 410k-490k MP/Vigor/AP/DfA: IN THE PROCESS OF TESTING AFTER MA/AP NERFS Pre-MA Nerf this was going to be a big surprise for those who loved DfA, as it was totally viable in many situations, and provided more output on cleave fights. It also had an entirely new rotation that offered a near minute long cycle that you could keep active. After the MA nerf, effectively making triple MA go from a 1 min cooldown to a 1.25 min cooldown (1 minute 15 seconds), the rotation took a large hit in viability as now the reset of our energy simply took too long to drag out the rotation any further. So unfortunately after the Ma nerf, this option no longer provides the same level of dps that VR does. However there is still good news! One, it's still an okay option, and I'll break down the rotation further down in the guide for those of you who want to pick up on where I left off to see if there is any remnant of hope for this setup on ST. The second being that on cleave fights (With TWO adds, one add VR is still better), this setup actually outperforms MP/Vigor/VR. So with that in mind, enjoy it! :D Stat Allotment: The overall results of this setup are kind of finnicky when it comes to best stat allottment. With the recent changes I just haven't had enough time to properly test all of the possible stat allocations. Crit: 31-47% (What? That's way too high of a variance Neverrz.) Let me change that. 31-37% OR 42-47%. The reason is we can take two paths here. One is stacking mastery, the other is stacking crit. I do not know which one provides more benefit after MA nerf. Will have to do testing. Mastery: Pump all remaining points into this stat. Whether it be your main pump or secondary, the rst should go here. Versatility: Similar to the AP/Vigor/MP stat priorities, a small amount of vers will be beneficial, numbers currently elude me as we're still working on which stat setups work best overall. Pro's to this build: Strong build, lots of buttons to press Our Burst is out of this world. On good rng, I've seen sustained dps of over 1mil after a minute long into the fight. WE GET TO USE DFA, WOOOOOO. One of our strongest setups for Cleave fights Con's to this build: Weaker in ST on fights lasting longer than 2 min after MA nerf (Dunno if this is a con for everyone but) A whole new rotation due to working in DfA including timed drops of SoT and lots of energy saving for micro burst phases Could take another viability nerf after the AP nerf on 1/17/2017 DPS Estimates for an 885 Ilvl Rogue w/ 37 Traits: 100-150Mil tests resulted in 465-620k DPS. (Variance is high, lots of testing to do still.) EP/Vigor/Exsang: Dps Results are Post 1/17/2017 AP Nerf (Not that it matters for this one :P) Exsang is slightly weaker than AP (Subject to change after AP nerf 1/17/2017) currently in most situations. Still viable as long and can beat out AP with some lucky and rng, but overall a bit weaker (Although this was a prediction that this would happen from the very beginning, so not surprising in the least) Stat Allotment: To be honest, most of my testing has been with the new AP rework so any input on this matter would be appreciated. Crit: 40-47% I'd still push crit to at least these levels. Versatility: Pump all remaining points into this stat. Whether it be your main pump or secondary, the rst should go here. Pro's to this build: Fun, different playstyle Utilizes bleeds, not necessarily a target for nerfs in the future Sorry guys I don't have a lot haha, maybe it'll be competitive because of the AP nerf happening at 1/17/2017? Testing needed Con's to this build: Outclassed by AP atm. DPS Estimates for an 885 Ilvl Rogue w/ 37 Traits: 100-150Mil tests resulted in 420-480k Meh. To be fair I do not have a very optimized Exsang set anymore. Anyone who has one please post your results to me :D Order of Strongest to Weakest Sin builds For ST: 1. MP/Vigor/AP/VR 2. EP/Vigor/AP/VR 3. EP/Exsang/VR 4. MP/Vigor/AP/DFA Order of Strongest to Weakest for Aoe fights: (Short duration adds) 1. MP/Vigor/AP/DFA 2. EP/Vigor/AP/VR 3. EP/Vigor/AP/VR 4. EP/Exsang/VR Order of Strongest to Weakest for Cleave Fights (High health adds): 1. MP/Vigor/AP/DFA 2. MP/Vigor/AP/VR (Better than DFA if it's just one add, I just have it ahead of VR cuz of style points yo.) 3. EP/Vigor/AP/VR 4. EP/Exsang/VR Relics FOR EXSANG BUILDS: Gushing Wound relics > All. I believe the current concensus is 20ilvl diff and dps relic use that instead however. So 850 GW > 860 DPS Relic But 870 DPS Relic > 850 GW. I don't test exsang builds often though, so any input is appreciated. FOR AP BUILDS: Sigh. I don't think I complain a lot, but let me tell you. This MA nerf really hit my soul. I loved it. But let's not digress into negativity. Right now, the situation pans out into two different scenarios and an added outlier which I will explain after. IF YOU DON'T HAVE LEGENDARY BOOTS: Gushing Wound > Master Alchemist > Serrated Edge > Poison Knives > Toxic Blades > Master Assassin triple relic Yeah. MA got hit that hard. IF YOU DO HAVE LEGENDARY BOOTS: Master Assassin (Double/Triple relic) > Gushing Wounds > Master Alchemist > Serrated Edge > etc. What's the outlier I was talking about? Well, it's our nighthold trinket Convergence of Fate (Or whatever the heck it's called). This baby can proc a lot, enough that it may bring back the value of triple MA. I'm doing testing on the PTR very soon to test this out. I'd love to continue using triple MA, so hopefully it pans out to be a situation where with trinket we can! (Not high hopes though.) Right now as of 1/17/2017 I am seeing about a three a minute proc rate for Convergence, this would equalize MA to be about a min cooldown if we had 2-3MA. My early guess will be Double MA and GW if you have convergence. This is of course pure speculation. Trinkets: Order of Trinket Value Assuming Same Ilvl: Convergence of Fate, this baby is just amazing. The rest I'm not sure, didn't get to do a lot of trinket testing other than early CoF tests (Pre MA nerf) I'd put flat mastery trinkets real high up there though. Opening Rotations and how to do normal rotations (This part needs to be done still, placeholder) MP or EP/Vigor/AP: Stealth Garrote Mutilate Rupture Mutilate (If 4 cp, kingsbane, if 3 cp then another mutilate) Mutilate Or Kingsbane depending on CP If you are still at 4cp cuz your unlucky !@# didn't get a single Crit proc, Kingsbane here Once you are at 5cp (not before) Vanish Rupture (Give it half a sec so you don't blow your Vanish proc with the Bug atm (Dunno if it's fixed yet) If your raid lusted at the beginning Mutilate (OR kingsbane if you haven't yet), if they didn't then pop Vendetta Mutilate to 3CP+ and proc your envenom as SoT is about to fall off. Conform to normal rotation after this (By the way, I currently go off of a 3cp rotation where I proc Envenom or rupture at 3cp if SoT is about to fall off. I've gotten a couple people telling me they obtain better dps with a lower crit and going off a 4cp rotation, I will test that in the coming weeks) Exsanguinate with EP: Stealth Garrote Mutilate Rupture Mutilate (If 4 cp, kingsbane, if 3 cp then another mutilate) Mutilate Or Kingsbane depending on CP If you are still at 4cp cuz your unlucky $%^ didn't get a single Crit proc, Kingsbane here Once you are at 5cp (not before) Vanish Rupture (Give it half a sec so you don't blow your Vanish proc with the Bug atm (Dunno if it's fixed yet) Exsanguinate If your raid lusted at the beginning Mutilate (OR kingsbane if you haven't yet), if they didn't then pop Vendetta Mutilate to 3CP+ and proc your envenom as SoT is about to fall off. Conform to normal rotation after this (By the way, I currently go off of a 3cp rotation where I proc Envenom or rupture at 3cp if SoT is about to fall off. I've gotten a couple people telling me they obtain better dps with a lower crit and going off a 4cp rotation, I will test that in the coming weeks) AP/Vigor/MP/DFA: I'll explain the full idea of the rotation after the initial burst since it's a bit different Stealth Garrote Mutilate Rupture Mutilate (If 4 cp, kingsbane, if 3 cp then another mutilate) Mutilate Or Kingsbane depending on CP If you are still at 4cp cuz your unlucky -*! didn't get a single Crit proc, Kingsbane here Once you are at 5cp (not before) Vanish Rupture (Give it half a sec so you don't blow your Vanish proc with the Bug atm (Dunno if it's fixed yet) If your raid lusted at the beginning Mutilate (OR kingsbane if you haven't yet), if they didn't then pop Vendetta Mutilate to 3CP+ and CONSERVE ENERGY Wait till you have enough Energy for TWO mutilates, then proc your envenom Follow it up with two quick mutilates and An immediate DFA, your DFA should hit with a little less than one second of SoT to spare. This will become an integral part of your rotation. The rest of your rotation is about keeping your rupture up while being able to micro burst for every DFA. The idea is that you make sure your rupture and garrote have enough time for you to be able to do three things: Generate CP Conserve Energy Burn two mutilates and DFA Each time you do this it gets a little harder to do without decent Crit RNG as Garrote takes a little too much energy to make this a smooth rotation. This got a real big nerf when triple MA got nerfed because 3 rotations of this was about what you could sustain comfortably without letting SoT drop off for too long, now you practically have to do 4-4 ½ rotations and the energy usage drain becomes very apparent resulting in dps losses. Nonetheless it's still How to Properly Abuse Kingsbane and it's Damage The idea behind Kingsbane is it's a dot that gets stronger as you continously reapply your poisons. The problem with this is Assassin isn't known for their endless supply of energy and fast applications of skills. To mitigate this you must properly prepare yourself. I'll explain a few situations and how to handle them to properly obtain maximum Kingsbane damage. Kingsbane is 15 seconds out without Vendetta or Exsanguinate: Make sure that your rupture has at least 30 seconds on it's timer, make sure your garrote has been refreshed recently. Once you hit the 10 second mark expend any CP you have or reapply garrote once more if you have no cp. Then Spam Mutilate to 5-6 CP and conserve energy till Kingsbane is off CD. Ideally you want near full durations of your bleeds, a full CP bar, and a full energy bar. Get as close to this as possible. Once Kingsbane is off CD, proc it followed by an immediate envenom followed by spamming mutilate to 5-6 CP on Envenom and then expend CP with Envenom again. Use Garrote once it falls off regardless of where you are in this rotation (Energy is too important to skip). Kingsbane is 15 seconds out with Vendetta on a similar timer: Make sure your bleeds are near full duration and expend any excess CP at 10 seconds. Conserve energy till 5 seconds off Kingsbane CD. Then Use Mutilate to stack to 5-6 CP. Ideally you want near full durations on your bleeds, a Full CP bar and an empty Energy bar when Kingsbane is up. Proc Kingsbane once it's off CD and immediately Vendetta to refill energy bar followed by an Envenom on the same gcd. Then simply follow the same rotation as mentioned above. Kingsbane is 15 seconds out with Vendetta and Exsanguinate on a similar timer: Make sure your rupture is around 20-25 seconds left at the 10 Second point. Refresh Garrote and spam mutilate until 5-6 CP. Conserve energy with whatever time you have left. Pop Rupture once Kingsbane is off GCD. Proc Kingsbane followed by an immediate Vendetta. Proc Mutilate once to ensure you don't overflow on energy followed by Exsanguinate. Cast Mutilate again and Proc envenom. Continue with normal rotation from here on out, reapply rupture and garrote when they fall off and try to get as many envenom's as possible. Surge of Toxins and it's ridiculous scaling with Agonizing Poison So a forum poster Rinehilde (Idk his rogues name, he posted on his hunter. -5 Points :P) asked me a fairly good question. He was trying to decide what path to take on his artifact weapon and wanted to know if for AP Specific builds if he should pick up BoTA or SoT first. I quickly responded with BoTA as our gold traits are all very powerful. He came back with a reply being skeptical showing his confusion about how why BoTA would be better. I decided I didn't want to start throwing out wrong information so I went and did a little comparing the two. Between logs, live testing and a good chunk of math I was very surprised to find out that not only is Surge of Toxins more valuable than BoTA, it's significantly more valuable. TLDR Comparison: BoTA: For AP builds BoTA ends up being a 4-9% damage increase, generally hovering around 7.5%. SoT: Surge of Toxins, taking the Lowend of every factor it brings gives a whopping 9-11% damage increase. The Maths: BoTA seems to follow an average of a 15-33% uptime. Rupture does around 20-30% of our damage even on AP builds (without BoTA). Surge of Toxins gives a flat 5% damage bonus through AP. Edit: This is Wrong, Tooltip is misleading. Surge of Toxins gives a 1% Damage bonus PER COMBO POINT. Which means 6 CP deeper strats give a higherdamage bonus. SoT also has the primary effect of increasing your poison damage by 10% which effects your AP damage bonus. So you take 10% of your 5 Stack AP and the flat 6% from a 6CP finisher and that alone is 8-10% extra damage during it's up time. Surge of Toxins also has a proc on finishers that buffs your poison damage by 10%. Generally you should have near 100% uptime of SoT during Kingsbane and Bag of Tricks procs. But ignoring that we'll just go with an average uptime of 50% (That's around what I maintain). Poisons including Bag of Tricks ranges around 10-20% of our damage as AP. So a 10% damage bonus equates to a 1-2%. Now We Take the 8-10% with the 1-2% and that gives us an average of a 10% damage bonus during it's up time. Cut that in half for a flat 5% damage bonus alone from SoT. Surge of Toxins, Mastery, master poisoner, and how they compliment each other oh, oh so well So. First let's hit up the basics. AP/MP stacks Mastery after getting 30-40% crit because you get a 20% bonus to your mastery from MP. That means as you get more mastery you get a higher bonus from MP. This means mastery already scales harder with more mastery. Now Let's add in SoT. What Does Surge of Toxins do and how does it compliment AP and mastery? During the Surge of Toxins Proc, our Agonizing poison gets a direct buff that is further buffed by MP. Example: I run 12.6k Mastery atm and I have a 40% damage bonus right now with my Agonizing Poison (Giving up Mastery for Crit for internal testing) without SoT proc. When My SoT procs I hit 50%. That's an ADDITIONAL 10% damage bonus with a 90% uptime (For 90% uptime you generally roll 3-4CP rotations, so the actual bonus is 6-8% averaging to 7%) So! If we just take my stat values at 12.6k mastery and average out the % damage bonus to 7%, So Surge of Toxins gives around a 7-8% flat damage bonus compared to the very rng BoTA. Realistically SoT gives an 11-12% damage bonus when including all factors. How to do Mythic+ (7 And higher): Okay, so due to popular demand I shall write how I handle myself in higher mythics. I won't bother to try and write a guide for lower mythics because as Assassin's we're just not suited to it. Mobs die too fast in good groups for us to really shine. You CAN use this setup for lower mythics if the group isn't a speed clear and it's just a normal run. Just note that the stronger your teammates are the worse you will do, so higher mythics give us a better safety net to look/do good. So Suck it up and use outlaw or Sub for low myth speed runs, or Accept your role as a ST role D:. Where we start to pull ahead is when mobs last long enough for us to get our ramp going. Talent Setup that I use 10-12-2016: T1: MP for sure nowadays T2: Honestly, with the buff and us now using Vigor > DS, Subterfuge is probably better than Nightstalker for Overall dps. Nightstalker is still viable though, and especially handy for Tyrannical weeks. T3: Vigor T4: Cheat Death, Elusiveness costs too much nowadays T5: Thuggee T6: AP now that it's application proc has been buffed T7: Venom Rush, Or DFA. Cuz it's viable now. WOOOOOOOOO How to Aoe: -Stealth BEFORE EVERY PACK/PULL (if your tank is chain pulling stab him in the throat, or use vanish for big packs of mobs, it's worth it.) -Tab Garrote 3 Targets. -Rupture (Yes 3cp rupture, just do it) -Fok Do you feel it? Maybe you got unlucky. -Fok By now you have to feel it, you can't be so unlucky you didn't get poison applications with TWO fok uses. So now you have 3 garrotes and a rupture generating energy for you, this alone is enough to sustain consistent fok spam. But that's not where we are stopping. Remember rupture is by far our strongest and hardest hitter. Energy capping is a non-issue, don't let people tell you otherwise. -At this point you're hoping you've crit once, you should be capped on CP. -Tab Target rupture -Fok to 5-6CP again -Tab Target Rupture -Repeat this process till you have 4 ruptures rolling. By this time your garrotes will probably be off, and 3 ruptures is not enough to give you infinite energy when you start proccing your envenoms. You want 4 ruptures. If there are only three targets cast garrote on a target as a replacement. -Now you just have the most fun of your life as A Sin rogue with no energy problems! -Fok till 4-6CP and Envenom! You'll see your dps hitting much much higher numbers more consistently than before! And that's not even including the amazing BoT procs. So You've Mastered how to AoE, your pugs are confused at how an Assassin is pulling awesome Aoe but you don't let it get to your head, yet. You still got to show them up on ST. Other Viable Options: Exsang/EP - Honestly this build is still okay in dungeons, you can utilize it well, but AP is superior atm. Conclusion: I have successfully run many.. many mythic 8-9's being 100% competitive with all specs. Even when going against fire mage padlords in Vault of wardens (Stupid imps) I've come out as top overall dps once the dungeon was done. I've ran up to mythic 11 and stayed top dps. Right now Rogues, especially sin and sub have a VERY VERY bad rep when it comes to myth+. And Now that outlaw has been gutted people don't even like them. I get pm's every single day in regards to my rogue compatriots reporting being kicked from mythic+ runs just for being Sin, or being declined just for being rogues. This really shouldn't be happening, we're a very strong class who can perform well in Myth+, we are simply being mis-represented! Hopefully this helps some of you guys who were having trouble getting decent numbers in myth+ climb back up to the top! Conclusion and Raid Effectiveness for bosses Conclusion: Raid Effectiveness: Single Target: 9.5/10 Aoe Fights: 7.5/10 Cleave Fights: 9/10 Heavy Mechanic fights with lots of time off Boss: 8.5/10 Mechanics that make boss immune: 7.5/10 Overall Score: 44/50 Final Notes God We've been double nerfed the week before nighthold came out. It's thrown off so much of my testing that I'm afraid I can't guarantee it's accuracy. I'm doing what I can to test things once again as much as possible, please bear with me team. Any help or evidence pointing towards either direction of supporting or refuting my current claims will be appreciated, as all I want is the most accurate and best information for all of you!Neverrz2158 14m
21m When will rogue be viable again I just cancelled my subscription because all my favorite classes are a joke to play now and blizzard seems to favor their garbage pail creations like demon hunter and death knight. Is there going to be balance restored in the next patch or should I just wait for the next expansion?Gnár9 21m
24m AP NERF Gone from 400k to 250kdps 876-877 ILVL sin rogue here. The normalizing stats (By nerfing crit and mastery on most of the gear) was a pain but the AP Nerf has made the damage more "Unworthy". Not sure if this was supposed to be for normalizing AP for the t19 set. But, It was made me to be one of the top dps in my current guild to having the same dmg as a 865 destro lock. http://simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19M.html We were near the middle of the list. (Excuse the Exsg build). Now we are at bottom. That list is just a simulator result but it has made the choice for AP not even good to take unless you have more than 120% mastery.Shankspeáre9 24m
1h Favourite Nighthold Boss I know NH just came out tonight but my guild cleared 6/10 bosses on normal and I was interested to see which fights people liked best as rogues. I personally found Krosus to be a nice, easy, stress-less fight which reminded me of ursoc. It was great for racking up good dps as assassination. However, my favourite fight would have to be Star Augur Etraeus. It was mostly single target but still required some attention. The most enjoyable part for me was splitting dps between the big add at the end and the boss, trying to maintain full ap stacks and rupture on both. It reminded me of the big adds in xavius and how easy it was to cleave on just one big add. I feel like Botanist will be a similar feel as well once I get through the madness of the mechanics. I was pretty stressed out trying to stay alive while keeping up rupture and AP stacks on all three bosses. Which fights did the rest of you enjoy and why?Whatagoon4 1h
1h PVE Sub Rogue Help Hey guys so I been playing a lot with AMR and been switching out trinkets and trying to get my rotation down etc however I always seem to be near the bottom of the dps charts. What am I doing wrong? I know I need some work with managing dance keeping up stuff etc however I keep coming across pieces of gear that are say 5 ilvls higher but AMR is telling me its not worth it to upgrade. I think my biggest debate I keep having right now is I have like 6 different trinkets. I have the 2 in my armory then an 835 Six feather Fan, a 850 bloodthirst and an 855 memnto. I also had a new 870 helm from NH that is 870 and has hast/mast and a new pair of boots that are 875 that have haste/versa. I seem to be very unlucky with the legendary drops as I only have the neck piece. what advice do you guys have to help? I seem to only be pulling about 330 on the dummies is this where I should be? Again I know I need to work on my rotation. Here is a link to the logs for last nights NH run. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FXPaHMBkWQKAvL2R#boss=-2&difficulty=0Shinji3 1h
1h Reasons i'm re-rolling to Demon Hunter 1. Rogue Subtlety has been receiving nerfs since Beta and Release of Legion. 2. Re-rolled to Assassination, but have been unable to get a Legendary drop for the spec. (have only found 2 since release for Sub). 3. Class is extremely dependant on Legendary BIS items. 4. Cannot perform as well as we use to in PVP (pre-legion) 5. Lack of Dev knowledge of the class and specs 6. Lack of communication to the Rogue community 7. Demon Hunter does not deal with Combo Points, only a "Rage like" energy bar 6. Auto attacks from Demon Hunters hit harder than Rogues 7. Demon Hunter out perform Rogues in both PVE and PVP 8. Demon Hunters feel very similar and comfortable like a Rogue, just no stealth I'll still be playing my Rogue as a main through the first bit of NH raid progression. Or if Rogues are fixed sooner than patch 7.2. But eventually once the gear is there for DH, this will be my new class. This is my last post on the Rogue forums i'll be submitting, I give up trying to get my voice heard due to the lack of Dev communication. Best of luck to all, you all have been an awesome community.Phay49 1h
2h Stealth Bug with Shadow Nova or Patch? I'm not sure if this came with picking up shadow nova or with the new patch, but I am occasionally stuck in combat after killing a mob now. I used to be able to immediately stealth after killing a mob, but now I am sometimes put back into combat and have to wait 3 or 4 seconds to restealth. It doesn't happen after every mob, but I think it occurs after starting an attack from stealth. The stranger part is that as soon as the mob dies, I go out of combat. I then will be put into combat for a few seconds. If I was quick enough to stealth before that, it will pop me out of stealth until combat is over. I'll have to try and determine exactly what is causing it. Nothing in my combat log is helping me yet. Anyone else having this problem now after the patch?Knibbler5 2h
2h How are Sin's 2pc/4pc bonuses? Is it really amazing? How much of a DPS increase are you guys getting? Does the 2pc proc Venomous Wounds and also is it affect by pandemic or multiple stacks? Would spamming mutilate be a detriment then for 2pc? For the 4pc, does it benefit from the 2pc?Videre3 2h
2h Are the legendary shoulders worth the switch? I just got the stealth crit legendary shoulders.. Would switching to Outlaw for the Truebearing CDR on vanish be a significant dps increase to be worth the switch from sin?Tyewïn12 2h
5h Mask of Artful Dodging? any rogues out there find out how to obtain this? would love to mog it http://www.wowhead.com/item=130322/mask-of-artful-dodgingVyrenn366 5h
7h PVP just got better for rogues Who else saw the massive nerf bat that went out to a good majority of the classes for instanced PVP. A pile of reductions to their damage and multipliers against almost every class. A few of them will still be a bit OP, but it should help us out!Elyzibeth12 7h
7h 3rd Legendary which one to unuse So last night I was given the ring Insignia of Ravenholdt 940. I already have equipped the neck (Prydaz) and the belt (Cinidaria) both of which are currently 910. I have quite a bit of gear also to change/upgrade but i was waiting to run nighthold so I don't waste gems/enchants in a day's time. I currently have bagged 865 neck and belt for when this day would arrive (I don't remember what stats but I know they have a lot of mastery). At first glance I was going to keep the neck (I love the amount of crit/mastery stats) and replace the belt. But I'm wondering if it'd be best to upgrade and keep the belt for all that agility (500 atm, will go up when upgraded to 940) even though its ability and secondary stat amounts aren't the best.Bobbaginush5 7h
8h Do you consider Combo Points fun? Do you consider the Combo Point mechanic to be fun? Why or why not?Arannar14 8h
8h AskMrRobot says Spont Appendages useless Post 7.1.5 I ran an AskMrRobot gearing strategy simulation for Assassination (MP/AP spec) and one of the gear recommendations was that I drop my 895 ilevel Spontaneous Appendages for an 845 ilevel Devilsaurs Bite. Even Bloodstained Handkerchief from Moroes (855ilevel + socket) was considered better than Spontaneous Appendages (though Devilsaur was better still): http://i65.tinypic.com/2vbrjas.jpg I inquired at AskMrRobot forum and was told it was because Spontaneous Appendages had been nerfed. I found out it did get nerfed (must've been a massive nerf??) and supposedly a hotfix is in the works: https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/status/819709858945515520 Anyone else who was using Spontaneous Appendages, have you dropped that trinket for something a lot lower in ilevel? Thought Blizz said they want ilevel to more accurately reflect how valuable an item is for you.Scabandari12 8h
9h when should I envenom/rupture I now run mp/vigor/ap and am trying to get used to having 5 cp cap. It seems like I am always at 3 cp and my question is when should I use my finishers? Am I better off doing low cp finishers to try and get more poison bomb procs/surge of toxins uptime? Or I wasting energy and should always 4 or 5 cp finisher? I know I'm doing something wrong because I'm 885 and only pulling 400k ST.Bclmj4 9h
9h Outlaw hidden appearance farming group Hey guys, I'm trying to put together a group to farm the bindings in Vault of the Wardens and Neltharion's Lair. Add me if you wanna join. :) See you guys in game!Caninano1 9h
9h Sin rogue damage stack? Hey guys some friends and I want to run Sin rogues together. But we are concerned that our bleeds, poisons ect may or may not stack. Anyone know?Holdstillplz5 9h
10h Nighthold as sub Any fights that you guys really liked as sub? I have the cape and spellblade auriel is like, THE PERFECT sub fight. When she summons those 6 adds about 1min apart, I can get 30 stacks of cloak, momento crit proc, then boom, 1.75-2m dmg to the adds. It's such a good fight and I was able to pull 663k dps, for a class with "bad" aoe!!Gougeoüs15 10h
10h Death From Above Hey all, I was hoping some expirenced PvE Outlaw rogues could offer me some advice on Death From Above. I'll be the first to admit I am a work in process for the rogue class and I find MFD difficult to use especially in clustered situations. I am grinding mythics+ right now to gear up before I attempt raids and recently speced DFA and find it much easier to use and I enjoy the animation and damage. My question for you, is DFA viable in higher end raids/mythics and during single target fights is RT better then DFA?? Any help would be appreciated. Also feel free to check out my current gear and give me your opinion on it. Thanks!Gball11 10h
10h Cmon Folks Time to restore some !@#$ing balance to pvp. I don't even bother fighting back against demon hunters, warriors, death knights... Why do you have to make all the fun classes to play so underpowered. It's not our fault nobody thinks your %^-*ty inventions of monks and demon hunters are fun to play.Gnár0 10h
11h Greenskin's Wristcuffs tooltip wrong? Hey guys, after the 7.1.5 Patch came out, Im sure I read that they ended up nerfing the wrists from 400% damage increase to 300% Damage increase. I am aware that for alot of the PTR before the patch came out they had nerfed the wrists all the way down to 200% but upped it to 300% for the patch. However the tooltip says 200%. I was wondering if anyone else has noticed this. Or am I completely wrong and the patch notes actually say they have dropped it to 200%. If the patch notes do say 300% has anyone done the work required to check if the damage buff we are getting is 300% and not 200% like the tooltip is saying?Psychedelicx5 11h
11h My Roll the Bones Weak Aura (Outlaw Rogue) I posted this on reddit and I would like to share it with all of you as well! Original Link: ... I just wanted to share with you guys my weakauras that I used for my Outlaw Rogue that has helped me keep track of my Roll the Bones buff. Here is how it looks: ... Here is the string to export it to your Weakauras if you would like to use it: ...Veldryk9 11h
13h Outlaw nerf? Just curious if its just my imagination or did they change something today. Because i'm seeing smaller numbers especially when it comes to run through. I was doing a little over 1mill crits half the time and now the max i do is about 970k.Matcauthon2 13h
13h Anyone with fate trinket? Off the queen, i managed to get lucky on my timewalking chest which also warforged to 880. Now, my question is would it worth looking into going vigor/snd to use AR much as possible with 10% aa damage ring? I mean i would be down to research and test this out. Its !@#$ing crazy for sin tho, vendetta reset for me in 45s without boot and three ma relic.Diusus3 13h
19h Blizzard The more I play this game with my favorite class, the more I begin to hate you. Thats not how your community is supposed to feel.Jimorenzhe5 19h
19h MP VIGOR AP dps loss Hey all! Since 7.1.5 has hit, i have been told the new talent build to be is MP, Vigor , AP I have swapped to these talents and according to sims i lose about 30k dps Im currently still using EP DS AP Cant someone explain to me why this is not a dps increase for my char? Is it due to my current stats? Thanks all!Thûg8 19h
19h Outlaw feedback For a few expansions now, the rogue has felt pretty stale. I raided heavily as assassination back in WOTLK but it was mind numbingly boring and it seemed expansion to expansion it never changed much. Apply a new dot here, slight tweak there. Same old boring stuff. And for the most part I still think that is true, and then came along Outlaw! Decided to dust off the old raiding rogue and see whats what. At first I wrote off Outlaw as out of place, clunky, odd, and un necessary. Combat was OK, just tweak it right? Whilst I still think that the whole 'swashbuckling pirate theme' is not really a roguey thing, the mechanics of the spec are phenomenal in my opinion. Whether or not they are topping charts or simming well end game, I am having a freakin blast with it. Leveling and tearing through mobs easier than any class that Ive leveled to 110 thus far (DH, ele shaman, arms warrior, demo warlock). Roll the bones: I understand RNG is the bane of all existence and I agree. Its still a cool idea of an ability, fits the theme, and is fun. Some buffs are better than others but all help out. Yeah, you want certain ones whilst progressing, but its still a pretty good deal IMO. And the sound that it makes is out of this world. For some reason, ability sounds are a big thing with me and hearing the dice roll on the floor is awesome (and the graphic is neat too). Visceral: Which brings me to the sounds...as mentioned I love it. Saber slash, Run through...love the sounds they make as your pounding through mobs with your swords. Pistol shot isn't bad either. A lot of games miss the mark when it comes to ability sounds and it kind of throws everything off, but Blizz nailed it with Outlaw. Overall, I am having a blast thus far. A bit of positivity (I know its outlawed on these forums...pun), but out of the classes that Ive leveled so far, this is by far the most fun Ive had (DH is my main, ilvl 876). Very smooth game play. Good job.Sief4 19h
20h I'm bad at Subtlety rogue halp I need help, I'm at subtlety rogue. I can only hit around 220k DPS single target on a dummy. But shadow craft says I should be MUCH higher. http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/us/proudmoore/izera https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FYdKbLJVWkPzMDjn/#boss=-2&difficulty=0&start=8093255&end=10058290 Those are logs from last nights nighhold raid. I did very very poorly. Please halp!Izera6 20h
20h Counter Fists of Fury? I've checked Dalaran's and Sensus's videos, and they have some stuff on monks but it was pretty dated. In reviewing the forums here I see people talking about getting destroyed by WW monks, Fists of Fury in particular, but no counter. The only thing I can think of is spec trinket, because I really only need to get out of that one move. But is the answer to spec trinket to counter one move of one class?Celodar7 20h
20h Tracking SoT Hi all. Any tips on tracking Sot uptime/falloff? TMW or something else? TIA.Shatterstorm4 20h
21h Trinket rankings updated 1/17/17 Only for assassination agonizing poison build http://simc.aethys.eu/rog_asn_t19m_1t_aa-4-3x-30-10_trinkets.html was surprising to me. Interested to see if this holds true. exsanguinate is shocking in comparison. http://simc.aethys.eu/rog_asn_ex_t19m_2t_trinkets.htmlVyndralx0 21h
21h Concern About Shadow Nova Trait Hey everybody, I was just checking out my future Artifact Trait selections and I came across Shadow Nova. As somebody who primarily plays solo and does mostly questing, I foresee this doing more harm than good. Very often I will sap a mob to keep my fights as single-target as possible (2 v. 1 as a Rogue has never been a good idea), however I imagine that the "explosion" that damages all nearby enemies would become quite a pain, as it would break my CC on the other mob. Does it actually work like this? Can anybody provide some insight?Macávity4 21h
21h Tab Targeting Help So I know this expac came with blizzards new tab targeting. I absolutely hate it. I tab target to either a mob or enemy player right in front of me, and it targets someone behind me. Have you guys just learned to adapt to this new tab targeting? Or is there a way to revert back to pre legion targeting? I tried an add-on called OldTargets, but it doesn't seem to be working. Any help would be appreciated.Genesiz18 21h
21h Have you guys seen the new T19 Sims? (Ouch) http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19M.html Yes.... For us AP users, that's us at the bottom. Apparently the .5% really compounded into a fat nerf when you add all the multipliers together.Stankysweg39 21h
21h Outlaw - talent and stat priority So after 7.1.5 hit im still running the same talent and stat priority. I am seeing vigor pop up on more and more rogues though. Is it still DS > vig? And stat wise are we still going for agi > vers > crit, or is mastery higher up now?Hdholy4 21h
21h #Outlaw My thoughts so far on 7.1.5. I've been playing Outlaw since September pretty hardcore and quite frankly, I thought this patch would be a godsend but it looks like we are back to square 1. Energy.....Energy....Energy.....I'm being considerably starved even more and this is simply because they nerfed our trait Fatebringer. Now I don't know if our T19 set will solve this issue BUT it's very concerning to me to say the least. TL;DR replace all your relics with fatebringer or switch to Assassin because that gap is even bigger now. edit: please don't tell me to use vigor... edit: what's even more disappointing is i have assassination at 35 and have consistently upgraded that set. Did some testing and I LOL'd at the disparity between the two even with my lvl 48 on outlaw.Tígerblood38 21h
22h Outlaw Questions Hi everyone, first of all sorry for my english (i´ll try my best). Im a OL(Combat) Rogue player sience WoD, im here asking about BIS Items from Nighthold and best 4 Set pieces. Which stats are the best for OL Rogue? Please take a look at my armory, all help is welcome :) Actually my DPS is better (or it feel better) with SnD and Vigor than MfD and DS. Norica US-Ragnaros Thanks for your help.Norica4 22h
1d Why AP seems more nerfed, and switching to EP You're probably thinking when you logged in.. "oh my god my AP % per stack went from from 7.8 to 6.9, THAT'S NOT .5%?!?" Well you're right but also wrong. For those who haven't read what your artifact traits do you might want to take a look. One of the increases the effect of poisons by a %. KEEP in mind that is a % from the initial 4->3.5% nerf. Once again since everyone is running MP-> Vigor, that is ALSO a % added on top of that. And once again with the artifact trait surging toxins. What you guys didn't realize is this isn't just a flat 2.5% nerf. It's a compounding nerf upon everything that synergizes with AP. So with this compounding nerf I'm starting to almost wonder if EP will be better than MP. If anyone have experiences or has tested this I'd love to know.Stankysweg11 1d
1d Cheat Death Broken in PvP? Because Cheat Death is on a 6 minute cd, has it been disabled along with shroud in instanced pvp? I died 2 different games and it didn't proc, and no debuff.Worldlyquest2 1d
1d 30% Slow for rogues was a poor choice Idk you guys, but i think this 30% nerf was pretty bad, anyone can kite me now...Howlf30 1d
1d Upcoming Rogue Tuning http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/792769-upcoming-class-tuning-hotfixes Rogue Assassination Agonizing Poison increases damage by 3.5% per stack (down from 4%). Rogue Duskwalker Footpads: Energy needed per 1 second of CDR for Vendetta increased from 50 to 65. Boots got a pretty heavy nerf, AP isn't so bad I guess....Unbone108 1d
1d 7.1.5 Rogue pvp So i hit 110 on this char just b4 7.1.5 came out. Im aware rogues arent as strong as they have been in history but i have other 110s and I guess i just get that rogue craving.. Anyways, b4 the patch i noticed in EU a lot of the top players were Outlaw. In NA a lot were playing sin. A handful of sub rogues thrown in the mix. My gear is wack rn and im having trouble trying to figure out what spec i should invest in. Currently have 2 gold traits in all 3, so right now is when its time to commit. Id appreciate only positive feedback ! Rogue, even in its current state is still by far top contenders for fun factor, my opinion ! ThxGnàrkil20 1d