Rogue

2d What's the Best Combat Ally right now? I've been trying to search online but I can't get a clear answer. Trying to use the legendary equipment on the best one. I got the one who provide AP on WQBamboo19 2d
2d I think they were tryin to cheese Rogue Lore ...with the quest dialog for champions of legionfall.The way Jorach and co were describing themselves? After the demon-cave-keg bit, he's all 'nobody knows, but we take satisfaction in the fact that we made the difference nobody knows about'? Or Tess, about 'all rogues step through shadows outlawsaywhat? but I've got to keep my activities secret' I just feel such hamhanded lines are a quiet little excuse for the lack of major rogue figures in lore. "We didn't make any real rogue heroes, which explains the subpar rogue concept/design, but we can't admit that, but "here! secrecy!" Moments like this don't make me see the class fantasy.Tyiako8 2d
2d Soul Ring of Vigor Sooo..... did anyone else see this ring for 7.2.5? New Leggo ring - Grants the Vigor talent. Thoughts? Mandatory for Sin? Very nice to have for Outlaw/Sub? DOES IT STACK?????????????Sephiron12 2d
2d OUTLAW vs Agatha guide (Mage tower Challenge) Hey guys! This challenge is very, very hard for us Outlaws, so here is a short guide on what worked for me, and a video of my kill. Agatha is all about add management. Kill the adds correctly and efficiently, and you will have time left over to DPS her. I cannot stress enough that this fight is about the adds above all else. The video: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/133238628 RTB STRATEGY Bones values in this fight are as follows: 1. True Bearing 2. Grand Melee 3. The rest On the pull, try to fish for True Bearing. This will give you frequent Adrenaline Rushes, providing more than enough energy for Crimson Vial (if needed), frequent Sprints to reduce damage (feint) and get to the different adds, and of course, additional damage from MFD. Grand melee is an obvious one, as the leech will save you in many situations but is not required.. You can get plenty of self-healing from Greed procs, Crimson Vial, and good use of Cloak. Basically go for True Bearing, anything else is an added bonus. Sticking with Grand Melee for too long will cause your damage to drop off and you'll just fall behind on adds (more on this in a sec). GEARING STRATEGY Basically, go with what you've been using and what you're comfortable with. I experimented with Will of Valeera, an intuitive go-to, but it didn't work well for me. Sure, I healed through stuff, but at great energy cost, causing me to fall behind on adds. Instead of using Will, try and rely on good Bones RNG to keep you alive. My go-to's are Mantle, and Greenskins. Mantle provides you with very strong burst on adds when needed (via Vanish), and Greenskins provides that single-target boost to chew through her absurd 103M health pool. But again, go with what you're comfortable with and have the most practice on. You DO NOT need Valeera for this fight. TALENTS General raid talents. Nothing unconventional is needed here; however, I did experiment a bit, so here's what I found. Dirty Tricks is a must, for free Gouges on the Imp Servants. Grapple vs Acrobatic Strikes: I feel that Grapple is a trap. Do NOT use it here, as you will have trouble positioning around the green puddles and killing adds that inevitably spawn on top of them. Rely on True Bearing to refresh Sprint, and that is all the mobility you'll need for when she teleports. THE FIGHT The pull: On pull, she spawns three Smoldering imp adds that fire spells at you. Cleave these down with your opening burst on the boss. Shortly after, she spawns two of the next type of adds. These ignore you, and instead attempt to channel a heal onto Agatha. Kick one, bring it to the other. Gouge the second one since your interrupt is down. Make sure you have MFD up for these, and all subsequent add spawns. Good MFD usage is how Outlaw can get through this. Umbral imps: after a little while, she will spawn a new round of imps, Umbrals. When these are alive, Agatha is immune to damage. Kill these as quickly as possible. They will periodically teleport a short distance, so have sprint ready. These imps also chain shadowbolts at you, which are quite painful, so cloak can be nice here. Dark Fury: Periodically, Agatha channels Dark Fury, giving her a shield while she channels stacking damage on you. Break the shield, then interrupt the channel ASAP to minimize damage taken. If you're falling behind here, it's another good spot for defensives. Fuming Imp: throughout the fight, she spawns imps that charge at you, and upon getting to you they drop patches of ground that slow you and damage you. It's super important to keep the patches to a minimum: if they build up, it eventually becomes impossible to run around killing the other adds, and dodging boulders in Phase 2. Try to strategically lure these imps to a good spot for their ground patches. The best spot is directly under Agatha's body. Phase 2: At 50%, she will teleport to the end of the corridor, and start throwing boulders at you that roll down the hill. These boulders are exactly like Krosus beams: two will never spawn at the same location in a row, meaning when one spawns, dodge it and then move to where it was: that spot becomes a safe zone. Repeat with each boulder. Continue managing the adds while dodging boulders, and she will eventually teleport again. Try to have sprint ready. Keep doing these mechanics, focus adds down ASAP. If you can stay ahead of the mechanics and not get overwhelmed, she will eventually die. All of this is incredibly difficult to execute. I'm Mythic geared, and it took me over 20 attempts, though I did have an embarrassingly high amount of Boulder deaths. If you end up bashing your head against a wall, take a break and come back later. Perhaps give it some time and gear up a little more - if you're below 900 ilvl, your damage might not be there yet. Either way, keep at it, practice the mechanics, and you'll eventually get a pull where the Bones shine on you, giving you everything you need, when you need it. Be ready for that pull. Have your mechanics ready. Don't waste that pull. Good luck!Zzat65 2d
2d Your Guide to Topping Charts: Sin NH Update! Guide to Assassin Author Note: Hey Guys! Please check out this link ASAP! http://roguedpsguide.com/yourguidetotoppingthecharts/ And Also http://roguedpsguide.com/ I've just been granted the privledge of posting this guide on their website. It's a fantastic place that is doing exactly what I've strived to do for rogues, a big collection point of a vast amount of awesome information for any rogue or would be rogue who wants to know more about us! I have the same guide posted on the website however it is far more functional and pleasing to the eyes as I'm able to write it with a much more powerful editor. Please Check it out and the website! I'm sure yall will love it. Author Disclaimer: As of 2/6/2017 I'm a 902 Ilvl rogue with 46 Traits in the spec. I have 4P that I use for testing but I utilize no legendaries. All results were done with this in mind. Spec Overview: Assassin is a fantastic single target raider and performs well in high mobility fights - Extremely Strong Single Target dps - Quick cooldowns for bursting down high priority adds - Minimal loss of dps when performing mechanics due to the nature of bleeds and poisons - Very good cleave dps - Strong multi-target dps - Good Target Mobility - DO WE EVEN HAVE A WEAKNESS TEAM? Key Elements To Assassin: - Extreme management of CP, Energy, and cooldowns - Considerable white damage time in between bursts - More about strategizing than getting a perfect 65 APM rotation (Outlaw) Tier How good is it, and what do we want? For rogues tier is pretty strong for us besides the fact that it's so poorly optimized. 2 Set a flat 4-5.5% of our dps and is fairly easy to maintain as it's simply an additional bleed off of our CP Generator, Mutilate. 4 Set offers a bit more of a dps bump, it offers 10% Extra envenom damage per bleed on the target (Rupture and Garrote for a 20% Envenom damage buff), Currently unsure if 4 Set synergizes with 2 set off of additional bleed (Heard rumors it does not, needs confirmation) So What pieces of tier do we want to use? I'll list them in order of BIS piece to worst: 1. Helmet 2. Chest ( = to Legs/Back if Alacrity Build) 3. Legs (Tied with Back and chest if Alacrity Build) 4. Back (Bis/Second BIS if Alacrity Build) 5. Shoulders 6. Hands Talents I'll be hitting up on all of the viable/or past viable talent setups to explain how each one compares to each other and themselves after the rebalance. Tier 1: MP, EP, or Hemorrhage? Master Poisoner: Master Poisoner is a strong talent to take especially with the recent buffs to poison damage. Often it is the strongest talent to choose for cleave and multi-target fights and offers neck-to-neck ST dps compared to the other talents. Master Poisoner also has latent scaling, as you get more mastery it becomes more effective increasing how awesome it is. Elaborate Planning: The 3% Nerf to it's effectiveness put it slightly behind MP in all cases with AP in the mix, however with our AP receiving the 2.5% damage nerf itself, EP might become viable. Testing will need to be done to compare the two. Until then however the rest of the guide will be written based on the previous results of EP being slightly worse than MP for AP. Tier 2: Nightstalker or Subterfuge? Nightstalker probably outweighs Subterfuge in most ST cases. However I have seen very comparable numbers to NS with Subterfuge getting buffed and the fact that we no longer use Deeper Stratagem as our main talent. Tier 3: After DS nerf, Deeper Stratagem or Vigor? After the DS nerf and Re-work on our rupture scaling, Vigor in almost all situations outscales/beats both Anticipation and DS (I personally see better numbers with Exsang builds as well). So For T3 Vigor is practically a must in my eyes. Tier 6: Agonizing Poison or Exsanguinate Agonizing Poison: AP is a talent that gives you a flat damage scaling based on a flat bonus and a mastery scaled bonus. Now with the rebalance granting a 10% higher application rate, it's effectiveness in add-switching and a myriad of other situations other than just ST is far higher than it's previous iteration. AP, even with the upcoming nerf (1/17/2017) will most likely be our strongest talent. Alacrity: Alacrity has proven to be an extremely strong talent for us in both cleave and ST as we've progressed through NH. While it is weaker to it's counterpart AP in the ST department, it is unrivaled in cleave for Assassins. Any fights that you have to do multi-target cleave or damage this is the talent you want to use (Aka Botanist, Scorp, etc.) Exsanguinate: Exsanguinate had receieved a 20% bleed nerf when I was in the midst of my testings. After they had reverted that nerf I did not have the chance to go back and do extensive testings again to compare the two specs. My first inclination is to say that AP will still be better in almost all situations, but for anyone who wants to offer valuable input either supporting or refuting my claim is welcome to do so. Edit: No one uses this Post 7.1.5. Dead Talent D: Tier 7: Venom Rush, or Maybe DFA?? Venom Rush: Venom Rush has been our strongest T7 since the start of the expansion, and honestly it still seems to be the case. Our Energy returns from it only compliment the new playstyle with Vigor and provides a fast, fun, and fluid rotation that allows for active target switching or consistent sustained damage on ST. Death From Above: In 95% of cases this talent is no good. However with 4 set it's actually comparable in ST to VR and add burst phases like skorp. I wouldn't recommend this talent as it makes the build clunky and I feel like you lose a lot of dps comparably speaking if you mess up your rotation compared to other talents, but it's actually not that bad otherwise, I'm only seeing a slight dps loss in ST compared to VR. Aka, take for style points. Stat Priorities and talent combinations So before I really shoot off any numbers I'd like to preface this with I'm still in the midst of testing for the most effective combination, but as of 1/17/2017 these are the results of what I've seen over the course of 120-150mil raid training dummy sessions. As of 1/25/2017 This is the currently one of the strongest talent setups for Assassin. It offers high versatility, decent cleave dps, Top ST dps, as well as giving us a very fluid rotation due to our high energy return. Right now this setup is mostly for ST, as MP/AL is superior for add/cleave fights. *Stat Allotment:* Currently in the process of refining but testings from multiple people appear to garnish the best results with these stat spreads: *Crit:* You want to hover anywhere from 25-35%, the reason we have a lower crit threshold than before is two things; Firstly we have a harder time generating the old levels of crit due to the double crit nerf we received, and secondly with the rework of the talents and not choosing DS, mastery starts outscaling Crit. The reasons for this occuring could be many, one possibly being with only 5 CP, we would often lose cp when either of our Mutilate procs crits, resulting in a loss of cp generation thus resulting in a loss of dps. Instead we opt to simply go for less CP generation by default (not necessarily hindering our dps due to the gated mechanic of 5 CP with vigor), and go for a flat damage increase, which happens to be mastery for this talent setup. *Mastery:* Pump everything else into this badboy. It really starts to shine at around 140-150% mastery, and only gets better as it gets higher. *Versatility:* I haven't done the math to find out the appropriate vers scaling for our now very high mastery stacking. I'm sure some small amount of vers will provide a better stat spread than simply dumping the rest into mastery, but those numbers currently elude me. So If you have small amounts of vers fret not, you are probably going about this in the right direction, I just don't have the numbers for the perfect setup yet. Any information on this with testing behind it is welcomed. ***Pro's to this build:*** - Strong build, lots of buttons to press - Fun build, lots to do especially as an Assassin - Low-ish Ramp up time ***Con's to this build:*** - Weaker on Cleave than Other setups -Slightly harder to manage than before due to a higher overall APM. (That's a good thing for me though, I like difficult specs) DPS Estimates for an 900 Ilvl Rogue w/ 46 Traits: 100-150Mil tests resulted in 650-750k DPS. With so many more finishers in this rotation than in previous iterations of Assassin, we are seeing a large increase in both BoTA and BoT procs, thus effectively offering a much wider swing in dps variation. We've become a stronger spec no doubt, but we also obtained a higher rng component than before. **MP/Vigor/Alacrity:** As of 1/25/2017 This is the currently one of the most popular talent setups for Assassin. It offers high versatility, top cleave dps, top aoe burst dps, and great ST dps just barely falling short of AP. It also sports an even more fluid and faster rotation than it's AP counterpart. *Stat Allotment/Priority:* Currently in the process of refining but testings from multiple people appear to garnish the best results with these stat spreads: Crit (All situations) => Mastery (Mastery for ST and adds) => Vers (Vers for cleave) > Haste (Yuck. You already get a ton of it from Alacrity.) **Pro's to this build:** - Very strong in all situations - Most Fluid of the talent setups **Con's to this build:** - Meh in ST, anything with mechanics that stop you from getting a finisher off every 20 seconds makes this build a lot less effective (Is there even a mechanic in NH like that though? :P) - Slightly harder to manage than before due to a higher overall APM. (That's a good thing for me though, I like difficult specs) DPS Estimates for an 900 Ilvl Rogue w/ 46 Traits: 100-150Mil tests resulted in 600k-670k DPS (ST). Very fun build, and is a breath of fresh air as we get to use Alacrity which was so useless in EN. **EP/Vigor/AP:** For those of you who have found yourself in a situation where you have absolutely no mastery to speak of, this build can act as a temp substitute until you stack mastery. *Stat Allotment:* Currently in the process of refining but testings from multiple people appear to garnish the best results with these stat spreads: *Crit:* You want to hover anywhere from 35-43%, the reason we have a lower crit threshold than before is two things; Firstly we have a harder time generating the old levels of crit due to the double crit nerf we received, and secondly with the rework of the talents and not choosing DS, mastery starts outscaling Crit. The reasons for this occuring could be many, one possibly being with only 5 CP, we would often lose cp when either of our Mutilate procs crits, resulting in a loss of cp generation thus resulting in a loss of dps. Instead we opt to simply go for less CP generation by default (not necessarily hindering our dps due to the gated mechanic of 5 CP with vigor), and go for a flat damgae increase, which happens to be mastery for this talent setup. *Mastery:* Pump everything else into this badboy. Mostly because this build should just be a short lived solution until you go to the stronger talent, MP. *Versatility:* I haven't done the math to find out the appropriate vers scaling for our now very high mastery stacking. I'm sure some small amount of vers will provide a better stat spread than simply dumping the rest into mastery, but those numbers currently elude me. So If you have small amounts of vers fret not, you are probably going about this in the right direction, I just don't have the numbers for the perfect setup yet. Any information on this with testing behind it is welcomed. Pro's to this build: Strong build, lots of buttons to press Fun build, lots to do especially as an Assassin Low-ish Ramp up time Con's to this build: For an Assassin, not really a lot of weaknesses. This setup covers the base in almost every situation, albeit from all testing slightly weaker than the MP variant. Slightly harder to manage than before due to a higher overall APM. (That's a good thing for me though, I like difficult specs) DPS Estimates for an 900 Ilvl Rogue w/ 46 Traits: Results may be skewed due to me already having good mastery D: 100-150Mil tests resulted in 620k-700k DPS. **EP(Or MP)/DS/AP: Dps Results are Post 1/17/2017 AP Nerf :** For those of you who used this setup(Pretty much all of us) I regret to inform you that with nerfs to both EP, DS, and the rework of rupture this setup has for the most part been put out of comission. I would strongly recommend looking at changing talent setups. The results with this setup after the rebalance were very grim. DS for AP is just not a very viable option. Please look into another option. **Pro's to this build:** - Soz fam, I haven't seen any. **Con's to this build:** - Much weaker after the many nerfs it received. DPS Estimates for an 900 Ilvl Rogue w/ 46 Traits: 100-150Mil tests resulted in 550-650k **MP/Vigor/AP/DfA:** This one surprised me a bit. Please note that this build is only even slightly viable with 4 set from NH. The rotation is really clunky and you have to do a lot of energy conservation but I've seen some interesting results. Stat Allotment: Exact same as MP/Vigor/AP/VR **Pro's to this build:** - WE GET TO USE DFA, WOOOOOO. - Fairly strong in ST - Probably stronger in Cleave/AoE than MP/Vigor/AP/VR **Con's to this build:** - Clunky - Dps falls off a lot if you are not literally perfect with your rotation during mechanics DPS Estimates for an 900 Ilvl Rogue w/ 46 Traits: 100-150Mil tests resulted in 630k-740k DPS. (Variance is high, lots of testing to do still.) **Order of Strongest to Weakest Sin builds For ST:** 1. MP/Vigor/AP/VR 2. MP/Vigor/AP/DfA (Viability unknown, live testing on bosses needed) 3. EP/Vigor/AP/VR 4. MP/Vigor/Alacrity/VR Order of Strongest to Weakest for Aoe fights: (Short duration adds) 1. MP/Vigor/Alacrity/VR 2. MP/Vigor/AP/DfA (Viability unknown, live testing on bosses needed) 3. MP/Vigor/AP/VR 4. EP/Vigor/AP/VR Order of Strongest to Weakest for Cleave Fights (High health adds): 1. MP/Vigor/Alacrity/VR 2. MP/Vigor/AP/VR 3. MP/Vigor/AP/DfA (Viability unknown, live testing on bosses needed) 4. EP/Vigor/AP/VR Relics FOR ALACRITY BUILDS: Alright now that i've done a bit more extensive testing I've been able to figure out a bit more of what's worth it to run with this build. I'll discuss what's best for a few different situations. IF YOU ONLY USE ALACRITY: Master Alchemist is our bis relic as our DP does => to rupture in a lot of cases, after that it's a toss up between things like GW, PK, etc. If you have Boots w/ Alacrity: Double Master Assassin, some people are running one MA since alacrity generates more ER, so it reduces the need for a second MA as much. If you plan on swapping between Alacrity and AP: GW = Master Alchemist, depending on which spec you want to take priority. GW if AP is your main, Master alch if Alacrity is your main. FOR AP BUILDS: Sigh. I don't think I complain a lot, but let me tell you. This MA nerf really hit my soul. I loved it. But let's not digress into negativity. IF YOU DON'T HAVE LEGENDARY BOOTS: Gushing Wound **(Toxic Blades as well IF you have 4 Set)** > Master Alchemist > Serrated Edge > Poison Knives > Toxic Blades > Master Assassin triple relic Yeah. MA got hit that hard. IF YOU DO HAVE LEGENDARY BOOTS: Master Assassin **(Double relic only, 1 MA is also viable if you have cof)** > Gushing Wounds **(Toxic Blades as well IF you have 4 Set)** > Master Alchemist > Serrated Edge > etc. Right now as of 1/17/2017 I am seeing about a three a minute proc rate for Convergence, this would equalize MA to be about a min cooldown if we had 2-3MA. My early guess will be Double MA and GW if you have convergence. This is of course pure speculation. Trinkets: Order of Trinket Value Assuming Same Ilvl in NH: - Convergence of Fate (Way more value if you have legendary boots.) - Draught of Souls (Very strong for ST 8-12% of your dps. Weak for cleave/Aoe. Swap trinkets if not ST focus. ) - Nightblooming Frond: It can be our #1 trinket if it double procs, otherwise it falls short below the other three. - ArcanoGolem Digit (Wow, I never thought I'd end up saying this > frond. But the more I test it the more I see it's stability compared to frond. Averaging 3-4% dps. Frond ranges 1.5%-7% - Flat Stat Mastery trinkets such as Eye of Guarm w/ Mastery Opening Rotations and how to do normal rotations (This part needs to be done still, placeholder) MP or EP/Vigor/AP: 1.Stealth 2.Garrote 3.Mutilate 4.Rupture 5.Mutilate (If 4 cp, kingsbane after, if 3 cp then another mutilate) 6.Mutilate Or Kingsbane depending on CP 7.If you are still at 4cp cuz your unlucky !@# didn't get a single Crit proc, Kingsbane here 8.Once you are at 5cp (not before) Vanish 9.Rupture (Give it half a sec so you don't blow your Vanish proc with the Bug atm (Dunno if it's fixed yet) 10. Kingsbane if you haven't. If you have then Vendetta. 11. Vendetta if you have not already. 12. Mutilate to 4CP+ and proc your envenom as SoT is about to fall off. 13. Conform to normal rotation after this AP/Vigor/MP/DFA: I'll explain the full idea of the rotation after the initial burst since it's a bit different 1. Stealth 2. Garrote 3. Mutilate 4. Rupture 5. Mutilate (If 4 cp, kingsbane, if 3 cp then another mutilate) 6. Mutilate Or Kingsbane depending on CP 7. If you are still at 4cp cuz your unlucky -*! didn't get a single Crit proc, Kingsbane here. 8. Once you are at 5cp (not before) Vanish 9. Rupture (Give it half a sec so you don't blow your Vanish proc with the Bug atm (Dunno if it's fixed yet) 10. Kingsbane if you haven't. Vendetta if you have. 11. Vendetta if you haven't. 12. Mutilate to 3CP+ and CONSERVE ENERGY 13. Wait till you have enough Energy for TWO mutilates, then proc your envenom. 14. Follow it up with two quick mutilates and An immediate DFA, your DFA should hit with a little less than one second of SoT to spare. This will become an integral part of your rotation. The rest of your rotation is about keeping your rupture up while being able to micro burst for every DFA. The idea is that you make sure your rupture and garrote have enough time for you to be able to do three things: - Generate CP - Conserve Energy - Burn two mutilates and DFA Each time you do this it gets a little harder to do without decent Crit RNG as Garrote takes a little too much energy to make this a smooth rotation. This got a real big nerf when triple MA got nerfed because 3 rotations of this was about what you could sustain comfortably without letting SoT drop off for too long, now you practically have to do 4-4 ½ rotations and the energy usage drain becomes very apparent resulting in dps losses. Nonetheless it's still fun to use and only a slight dps loss/maybe even a dps gain if you get lucky. How to Properly Abuse Kingsbane and it's Damage The idea behind Kingsbane is it's a dot that gets stronger as you continously reapply your poisons. The problem with this is Assassin isn't known for their endless supply of energy and fast applications of skills. To mitigate this you must properly prepare yourself. I'll explain a few situations and how to handle them to properly obtain maximum Kingsbane damage. Kingsbane is 15 seconds out without Vendetta or Exsanguinate: Make sure that your rupture has at least 30 seconds on it's timer, make sure your garrote has been refreshed recently. Once you hit the 10 second mark expend any CP you have or reapply garrote once more if you have no cp. Then Spam Mutilate to 5-6 CP and conserve energy till Kingsbane is off CD. Ideally you want near full durations of your bleeds, a full CP bar, and a full energy bar. Get as close to this as possible. Once Kingsbane is off CD, proc it followed by an immediate envenom followed by spamming mutilate to 5-6 CP on Envenom and then expend CP with Envenom again. Use Garrote once it falls off regardless of where you are in this rotation (Energy is too important to skip). Kingsbane is 15 seconds out with Vendetta on a similar timer: Make sure your bleeds are near full duration and expend any excess CP at 10 seconds. Conserve energy till 5 seconds off Kingsbane CD. Then Use Mutilate to stack to 5-6 CP. Ideally you want near full durations on your bleeds, a Full CP bar and an empty Energy bar when Kingsbane is up. Proc Kingsbane once it's off CD and immediately Vendetta to refill energy bar followed by an Envenom on the same gcd. Then simply follow the same rotation as mentioned above. Kingsbane is 15 seconds out with Vendetta and Exsanguinate on a similar timer: Make sure your rupture is around 20-25 seconds left at the 10 Second point. Refresh Garrote and spam mutilate until 5-6 CP. Conserve energy with whatever time you have left. Pop Rupture once Kingsbane is off GCD. Proc Kingsbane followed by an immediate Vendetta. Proc Mutilate once to ensure you don't overflow on energy followed by Exsanguinate. Cast Mutilate again and Proc envenom. Continue with normal rotation from here on out, reapply rupture and garrote when they fall off and try to get as many envenom's as possible. Surge of Toxins and it's ridiculous scaling with Agonizing Poison So a forum poster Rinehilde (Idk his rogues name, he posted on his hunter. -5 Points :P) asked me a fairly good question. He was trying to decide what path to take on his artifact weapon and wanted to know if for AP Specific builds if he should pick up BoTA or SoT first. I quickly responded with BoTA as our gold traits are all very powerful. He came back with a reply being skeptical showing his confusion about how why BoTA would be better. I decided I didn't want to start throwing out wrong information so I went and did a little comparing the two. Between logs, live testing and a good chunk of math I was very surprised to find out that not only is Surge of Toxins more valuable than BoTA, it's significantly more valuable. **TLDR Comparison:** *BoTA:* For AP builds BoTA ends up being a 4-6% damage increase, generally hovering around 5%. *SoT:* Surge of Toxins, taking the Low end of every factor it brings gives a whopping 6-9% damage increase. --- The Maths: BoTA seems to follow an average of a 15-33% uptime. Rupture does around 15-20% of our damage even on AP builds (without BoTA). Surge of Toxins gives a Flat 1% AP Increase PER CP that you expend on your finishers. This means a 5CP finisher is a 5% flat AP increase, a 3CP Finisher is 3%. Surge of Toxins also has a proc on finishers that buffs your poison damage by 10%. Generally you should have near 100% uptime of SoT during Kingsbane and Bag of Tricks procs. But ignoring that we'll just go with an average uptime of 80% (That's around what I maintain). Poisons including Bag of Tricks ranges around 25-35% of our damage as AP. So a 10% damage bonus equates to a 2.5-3.5%. So if We take an average value of 4CP Per finisher for 4% Damage, and then add in an average of the additional 10% damage bonus, we see a total of a 7% Damage increase. Surge of Toxins, Mastery, master poisoner, and how they compliment each other oh, oh so well. *Disclaimer: This next portion is very outdated, however it should all still function the same way. So disregard flat numbers and just take the actual synergies for what they are.* So. First let's hit up the basics. AP/MP stacks Mastery after getting 30-40% crit because you get a 20% bonus to your mastery from MP. That means as you get more mastery you get a higher bonus from MP. This means mastery already scales harder with more mastery. Now Let's add in SoT. What Does Surge of Toxins do and how does it compliment AP and mastery? During the Surge of Toxins Proc, our Agonizing poison gets a direct buff that is further buffed by MP. Example: I run 12.6k Mastery atm and I have a 40% damage bonus right now with my Agonizing Poison (Giving up Mastery for Crit for internal testing) without SoT proc. When My SoT procs I hit 50%. That's an ADDITIONAL 10% damage bonus with a 90% uptime (For 90% uptime you generally roll 3-4CP rotations, so the actual bonus is 6-8% averaging to 7%) So! If we just take my stat values at 12.6k mastery and average out the % damage bonus to 7%, So Surge of Toxins gives around a 7-8% flat damage bonus compared to the very rng BoTA. Realistically SoT gives an 11-12% damage bonus when including all factors. How to do Mythic+ (10 And higher): Note: As a 902 Ilvl Rogue I average 650-700k Overall dps in mythic 10+. Obviously Variance exists (Mostly in the lower end, I can drop to 600k if we die a lot or pull like wimps.) Okay, so due to popular demand I shall write how I handle myself in higher mythics. I won't bother to try and write a guide for lower mythics because as Assassin's we're just not suited to it. Mobs die too fast in good groups for us to really shine. You CAN use this setup for lower mythics if the group isn't a speed clear and it's just a normal run. Just note that the stronger your teammates are the worse you will do, so higher mythics give us a better safety net to look/do good. So Suck it up and use outlaw or Sub for low myth speed runs, or Accept your role as a ST role D:. Where we start to pull ahead is when mobs last long enough for us to get our ramp going. Talent Setup that I use 10-12-2016: T1: MP for sure nowadays T2: Honestly, with the buff and us now using Vigor > DS, Subterfuge is probably better than Nightstalker for Overall dps. Nightstalker is still viable though, and especially handy for Tyrannical weeks. T3: Vigor T4: Cheat Death, Elusiveness costs too much nowadays T5: Thuggee T6: AP for Tyrannical. Alacrity for Fortified. T7: Venom Rush. How to Aoe: -Stealth BEFORE EVERY PACK/PULL (if your tank is chain pulling stab him in the throat, or use vanish for big packs of mobs, it's worth it.) -Tab Garrote 3 Targets. -Rupture (Yes 3cp rupture, just do it) -Fok Do you feel it? Maybe you got unlucky. -Fok By now you have to feel it, you can't be so unlucky you didn't get poison applications with TWO fok uses. So now you have 3 garrotes and a rupture generating energy for you, this alone is enough to sustain consistent fok spam. But that's not where we are stopping. Remember rupture is by far our strongest and hardest hitter. Energy capping is a non-issue, don't let people tell you otherwise. -At this point you're hoping you've crit once, you should be capped on CP. -Tab Target rupture -Fok to 5-6CP again -Tab Target Rupture -Repeat this process till you have 4 ruptures rolling. By this time your garrotes will probably be off, and 3 ruptures is not enough to give you infinite energy when you start proccing your envenoms. You want 4 ruptures. If there are only three targets cast garrote on a target as a replacement. -Now you just have the most fun of your life as A Sin rogue with no energy problems! -Fok till 4-6CP and Envenom! You'll see your dps hitting much much higher numbers more consistently than before! And that's not even including the amazing BoT procs. So You've Mastered how to AoE, your pugs are confused at how an Assassin is pulling awesome Aoe but you don't let it get to your head, yet. You still got to show them up on ST. Conclusion: I have successfully run many.. many mythic 8-9's being 100% competitive with all specs. Even when going against fire mage padlords in Vault of wardens (Stupid imps) I've come out as top overall dps once the dungeon was done. I've ran up to mythic 11 and stayed top dps. Right now Rogues, especially sin and sub have a VERY VERY bad rep when it comes to myth+. And Now that outlaw has been gutted people don't even like them. I get pm's every single day in regards to my rogue compatriots reporting being kicked from mythic+ runs just for being Sin, or being declined just for being rogues. This really shouldn't be happening, we're a very strong class who can perform well in Myth+, we are simply being mis-represented! Hopefully this helps some of you guys who were having trouble getting decent numbers in myth+ climb back up to the top! Note: As of 2/6/2017 I'm fairly certain this is dispelled. Go forth my Fellow rogues! Queue up for everything!As of 2/6/2017 I'm fairly certain this is dispelled. Go forth my Fellow rogues! Queue up for everything! Conclusion and Raid Effectiveness for bosses Conclusion: Raid Effectiveness: Single Target: 9.5/10 Aoe Fights: 5.5/10 Cleave Fights: 9/10 Heavy Mechanic fights with lots of time off Boss: 8.5/10 Mechanics that make boss immune: 7.5/10 Overall Score: 40/50 Final Notes As stated in the Opener of this guide. This is a sim-Free guide dedicated to the rogue community gathering information and making conclusions on nothing but *live results* off of training dummies, raids, and other such activities. I Don't guarantee for certain anything in this guide as things change, people have different experiences and a better, smarter rogue out there might have a different viewpoint than I do. So take the guide with a grain of salt! The very best advice I can give for any rogue who wants to do better is simply this: Do your research, study up on guides such as this one, and then test it yourself. See what works for you. Sim yourself, test what you've learned in raids. Experience is Priceless and only you can make yourself better! Also Be sure to check out: http://roguedpsguide.com/yourguidetotoppingthecharts/ http://roguedpsguide.com/Neverrz3152 2d
2d the sub rogue changes are pretty intresting http://www.wowhead.com/news=262373/7-2-5-ptr-build-23910-development-notes-and-data-highlights-spells-trial-of-styl one of the bigger things i noticed is symbols of death cost got lowered by 10 energy and is active until cancelled what do you guys think about the changes in this iteration of the ptrLunala192 2d
2d Vanish is broken ok, real talk blizz. I dont know if this is a bug or what, but if not it needs to be fixed ASAP. Been having a real problem with vanish not dropping pet agro in pvp. Very very annoying.Critzú9 2d
2d Question for experienced Sub Rogues Hey guys. Sub is a pretty unique spec these days and I was strongly considering leveling one once the 7.2.5 changes roll in. I was wondering what Sub mains think of the upcoming changes. Will sub be better? Worse? It looks like the AoE setup will be considerably more easily managed, at a glance anyway. I'll probably be using mine for mythic + and raids, not sure about PvP. Think it will be in a good spot? I'd rather not go through all the effort it takes to get an alt up to speed these days unless there's going to be a solid payoff.Ðurzo10 2d
3d Too late to reroll? Decided I should just stop wasting my time and effort with feral druid. How is rogue in terms of fun/immersion/mobility/survivability in both pvp and pve? Thing is, I have come this far with my druid but its just no longer rewarding or satisfying for the amount of effort it requires. It just feels like a big fat clunky mess and I hate it. Should I roll a rogue, or maybe something similar? Appreciate any opinions :)Stormlíng13 3d
3d Can assassin please be redesigned I fell in love with this spec in mop and I feel like the spec got completely gutted I love somethings done with the spec but the overall bleed play is just not fun in pve or pvp not to mention in pve you don't even play with bleeds reallyArianalol8 3d
3d Dense Concoction Artifact Trait Anyone know if dense concoction stacks with Feint?Jozeywalez1 3d
3d Bugged Runes in God-queens Fury its really frustrating to get to 50% and have the ruins explode as soon as I touch one. Ive put in a ticket. I hope that this is happening for others or maybe some one knows what how this bug can be avoided would really helpBrozzy53 3d
3d Outlaw Rotation Question (BTE) I was looking at the guide for outlaw rogues on icy-veins (pve) and I noticed that there wasn't any mention of Between the Eyes in the rotation. So my question: Are we not supposed to use Between the Eyes in our standard rotation?Malonin9 3d
3d Shadow Reflection Anyone miss this?? I felt it maybe so many cool plays possible. Anyway it could come back?Cryptstalker10 3d
3d 7.2.5 Roll-the-bones changes I've been neglecting my rogue in Legion because I hate RtB and sin wasn't good at launch (and I've always hated sub.) and is arguably still worse in most Mythic + situations ("arguably"! don't hate.) I really like the idea of outlaw rogues, but hated spending all of my combo points on re-rolling the bones trying to get 2+buffs until the end of the fight when I get 6 buffs just in time for the between-pack walk... It's a terrible feeling. Any thoughts on whether the 7.2.5 RtB changes will make Outlaw playable for a rogue like me?Apachii12 3d
3d Suspicious Crate From Noggenfogger Does anyone have any insight as to how to acquire this? So far I've gathered that it sits on the carpet area in front of Marin Noggenfogger in our Order Hall. It shows up on Minimap with Outlaw Treasure Finding on. Does Marin have to be on a mission, off of a mission? Does he need to be active or deactivated follower? Do you have to have The Vault Order Hall talent or not? Is it a competitive world spawn so that once another rogue grabs it, it disappears? Any helpful knowledge here as Wowhead is filled with competing information.Shortcut9 3d
3d Riding trainers Outlaw rouge riding trainer, I can't seem to find one. I've been using the google machine but still having trouble. I tried going to kar stormsinger in bloodhoof village but the gates are closed. I'm a lvl 40 and ready to learn journeyman riding.Dagig4 3d
3d CLASSY FANTASSSYYYY You know what's total bull!@#$? Death Knights get to summon a skeleton dragon from the %^-*ing aether to carpet bomb any area of their choosing but my Cannonball Barrage comes from !@#$%^- nowhere. There's already a Ghost Ship in-game so you wouldn't even have to make a new model, come on Blizzard. Right?Cadlington13 3d
3d Blizzard deletes sub? This can't be real. From MMO: Relentless Strikes Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to generate 40 Energy. Rogue - Subtlety Spec. generate 5 Energy per combo point spent. Rogue - Subtlety Spec. You can't even do a rotation of 2 ss Eviscerate 2 SS anymore without legendary boots and even then it will be a tight squeeze. This is aweful. Tell me MMO is wrong... =/' HOLY CRAP?!?! "Developers’ notes: This improves Energy capping situations and an issue where with Deeper Stratagem (talent), you would sometimes get 80 Energy back on a 6-combo point finisher." That dude is the moron of the century. CAPPING IS NOT A PROBLEM YOU CLOWN, NOT HAVING ENERGY IS A PROBLEM.Brutain88 3d
3d Fire Holinka Make it so number oneKaratecow15 3d
3d 7.2 & the effect of Sinister Circulation Evening Gents, Looking for any information on how this has affected other peoples rotation deep into fights. Obviously the trait itself will make the cool down on Kingsbane dramatically shorter, but it doesn't seem to line up in any functional way. Pre-Sinister Circulation: with 1 MA relic, boots, and NO convergence, I was able to launch my initial opener, and have next Kingsbane line up with my next vendetta with only a 4/5 second gap, allowing me to always align my cooldowns. What I'm noticing with the addition of this new "Sinister Circulation" is that my second kingsbane pops up about 20-30seconds before my second vendetta leaving me in a position to try and squeeze another kinsgbane, however it wont be up again by the time my second vendetta comes around. Any information on how other have handled this would be appreciated -- Are you waiting for cooldowns to align, or using kingsbane on CD?Theophilus21 3d
3d KingSlayers, Concordance of the Legionfall Is this bugged? I just spent 4 minutes on a target dummy and got no proc's. Anyone else that has unlocked it seen it proc?Spitefuly5 3d
3d Thunderfury Hidden Appearance issue I've recently got both bindings, so I went to go talk to that dragon on the peak in Stormheim. I accidentally chose the wrong dialogue option not knowing that I'd get penalized for it and now she has none. I already tried some of the earlier solutions (join a skirmish, log out/in, close game completely and reopen) with no luck. I also opened up a ticket and this was the response I got: "Thanks for contacting us today, I'm Game Master Unneawhin. I've got your ticket here about that Hidden Artifact appearance and not being able to open up that dialouge again. That is definitely frustrating to hear. I think that appearance is one of the best ones. I'm leveling my Rogue right now and looking forward to that. When it comes to the hidden artifact appearance, there isn't much we can do. We're completely hands off and can't offer any hints on what's going. I do want to add that there isn't anything wrong or broken with it which is good. I would just wait and try again later. There isn't a bug or anything, the Dev team wouldn't cut off all rogues from getting this if they messed up. You just have to wait for the Dragon to open up the dialouge with you again. Hope that helps. Take care and have a good day!" The only solution I think is gonna work is the weekly reset. If anyone has found a solution to this in patch 7.2 I'd gladly appreciate it as it is driving me insane. Getting this far and then being denied the appearance due to a bug is very frustrating.Redeadlol6 3d
3d Outlaws What do you guys Love or Hate about the spec? No Salt Plz. I've always loved the theme of a rogue character with swords and it's what drives me to play the spec when I can, it is an RPG after all. But god damn do i HATE our energy regen and it seems with every patch we get slower and slower. I remember how fast Combat was. I have no problem with RTB besides it's imbalance, but why the f--k does it cost energy? all our energy cost are BS IMO. And they just keep nerfing us. Hopefully 7.2.5 helps this but I don't have high hopes. It's bad when my Brewmaster feels faster than my rogue. TLDR: Outlaw is my favorite spec but due to poor balancing and energy starve it can sometimes feel very punishing to play especially when i can switch to Assassination and shoot up to the top of DPS charts with little to no effort. What do you guys think? Stay Dishonest my friends.Rélyt30 3d
3d Sin PvP? How is Assassin PvP right now? Ive been hearing its pretty good in RBG's and not so much in arenas. I havent touched rated pvp since launch and I'm a bit out of touch with the current meta so if someone could let me know what is being played right now I'd appreciate it.Akorus3 3d
4d Finally Loving Outlaw Rogue Just wanted to say now that I've gotten up to the Broken Shore level of gear and had a few lucky upgrades I'm finally enjoying the spec. Combat always traditionally needed to scale further into expansions to be effective but boy was that ever true for Outlaw as well. I picked up my 4th Blade Dancer trait recently and also managed to find a relic to get me to rank 5 so now my Energy Regen is only 4% reduced while Blade Flurry is on so there's barely any reason for me to turn it off. That combined with Loaded Dice and some more Haste I've gotten make the spec infinitely more fun to play. The 7.2.5 changes look amazing as well, if they stick it should mean we need less time to scale in future expansions and remove some RNG from the spec. I'm still not convinced about the upcoming Slice and Dice changes though, at the time of this post it's planned to be changed to 80% increased Attack Speed and 20% increased Energy Regen, they reduced the chance for Roll The Bones to give multiple rolls but made the single buffs stronger but that just means it'll probably be even more ahead of Slice and Dice now because Loaded Dice exists. I'll probably still be sticking with Roll The Bones by the time we get there.Straven20 4d
4d Satyr's Boots 7.2.5 Shadow Satyr's Boots: Shadowstrike, Backstab and Gloomblade refund 5 energy upon use. Is this asking too much, or just wishful thinking?Noceo10 4d
4d Since we're re-visiting Symbols of Death.. It would appear that Blizzard is toying with the idea of an indefinitely toggle-able Symbols of Death on the PTR. I've never felt that SoD should be an active ability. Actually, I've really never felt that it should be in the game to begin with. I first looked at it and said "Alright, so this exists to reward players who space out their shadow dances rather than use them back to back," which I quickly learned isn't the case. It's a menial maintenance buff with no discernible impact on gameplay moment-to-moment. It still boggles my mind how abilities like shiv can make it to the development chopping block but abilities like SoD can, not survive the prune, but actually get added to the game. It should either be made passive with zero player input necessary (remaining active during stealth/shadow dance and for 45 seconds afterwards) or it should be removed entirely. Of course, a re-imagining of the four piece set bonus would be necessary as well. Does anyone enjoy having this ability as part of our toolkit? How do you think it should be changed, if at all?Kolrend11 4d
4d Artifact Challenge The hardest part of this stupid "challenge" is not getting shadowstrike to kill you in the last phase by porting you into AOE, which has happened to me multiple times sub 10% hp. This is seriously annoying. Make him follow us closer or something because that is literally all of my deaths.Måxåmillion7 4d
4d Best pvp spec I have a level 100 undead rogue and really don't know much about the class at all. What would be the best spec for just some casual bgs and maybe some rated 2s?Thetraplord1 4d
4d 1st Leggy was Cape... if 2nd comes around and isn't something decent, I feel like I should just reroll another rogue. I mean AP/AK catch up is easy with my main and gear just flows in pretty quickly with a guild carry. (went from 810 ilvl -> 860 -> 880 within a week) I hear that without BiS you won't be competitive DPS wise. Anyway thoughts? Stick it out even if 2nd isn't a BiS setup? I'm doing about 500k-ish DPS right now and all the other rogues do about 700-900 (I'm bursting 900-1m they are bursting 1m-1.3mil if not higher)Envmz15 4d
4d Which Legendary? Happy Wednesday fellow Stealthies. Which Legendary do i choose to equip for an Assassin rouge? Mantle of the Master Assassin or Cinidaria, The Symbiote? I have Duskwalker equipped as my other Legendary.Ravenscar11 4d
4d 7.2 Shoulder Openers (Assassination) Edit: I removed all the old information from the first post. After testing different openers and sharing data, these are the current openers that are performing the best for now. When ToS opens and we start getting T20 pieces and new trinkets, I'll just start a new thread: Everyone should be wearing T19 4piece. It is incredibly strong. Get it, wear it, love it. Some people don't like using Draught of Souls (DoS) so this puts the opener into 4 categories so just scroll down to find your setup with the optimal opener; Subterfuge w/DoS: Garrote > mut > rupture > mut > vendetta > envenom > KB > mut > envenom > mut > mut > auto attack and pool until KB dot is at 6 seconds remaining > Vanish If mut > mut made 5 CPS then: envenom > mut > garrote > DoS > spam envenom while DoS is casting to catch the last tick of your crit buff If mut > mut made 4 CPS then: garrote > envenom > mut > DoS > spam envenom while DoS is casting to catch the last tick of your crit buff Then enter your normal rotation from there by mutilating to 4+CP and reapplying rupture. Subterfuge W/O DoS: Just do the same as above but where it says to use DoS, just envenom instead and keep doing your mut > envenom spam until the crit buff is gone. Nightstalker w/DoS: garrote > KB > rupture > mut > vendetta > envenom > mut > envenom > mut to 5CP (if you get 4CP, just FoK for the last one) > Wait until KB dot has less than 6 seconds left > vanish > rupture > mut > DoS > envenom > mut > crit buff is gone so clip SoT with your next envenom and go into your normal rotation from there. Nightstalker W/O DoS: Same as above but where it says to cast DoS, use envenom instead and continue the mut > envenom spam until crit buff is gone.Handsomejeff179 4d
4d PvP leveling spec I'm doing a challenge leveling in a pvp server with certain restrictions placed on me (like no heirlooms while leveling) and more specifically, where I must engage every horde player I come across. Therefore, the typical combat- er outlaw leveling spec probably isn't the best idea. Should I level as assassin or sub for frequent pvp confrontations? I'll need to pick whichever can do as much burst as possible and escapes.Kronov2 4d
4d Dear Devs Please stop putting haste on everything for assassination specs.Renamedlol1 4d
4d Xylem Bug? Evertime the blizzard phase starts I get hit by a 4 mil crit, not even have the time to cloak in time, didn't do this last time I tried, anyone else getting this?Olisin1 4d
4d Shoulders 110% trivialize proving grounds If you, like me never gave Proving Grounds a serious chance and want to get the achieve/gold thingy next to your que name, give this a shot before legion ends (or before something changes).Vaskein0 4d
5d Draught of souls for outlaw? any good? I thought draught of souls was BIS but for outlaw idk it seems not as good? Get energy capped constantly with it and you give up SO MUCH AGI wtf..Glithien6 5d
5d RIP Subtlety Was fun while it lasted.Noceo34 5d
5d 7.2.5 badjuicy please senpaiMariahcurry1 5d
5d Best bodyguard champion? I mean, which follower contribuites the least to our mission table and is also a bodyguard? My intention is to stack gold gathering equippement to this champion. My current setup would be: Garona, Vancleef, Shaw, Ravenholdt, Voss, Tethys and meatballVaskein1 5d
5d 9/10 still no cloak. The cloak was the first legendary I wanted from the start. To be able to run dungeons and do max damage is what I wanted. Well, atleast I know now I will get it next drop.. Or is blizzard going to add new Trash legendaries and the patch will come out and I will get screwed. Oddly, I got my last legendary off of one of those nerthershard boss mobs. I considered not picking up it up because it didn't auto loot.. but I just went with it. I not sure if bad luck protection changes on looting the object or the object dropping.Brutain16 5d
5d outlaw burst pvp could someone please advice on the optimal burst sequence for outlaw rogue? thank you!Quarval1 5d
5d PTR Sub rogue rotation (4/15/2017) I copy and pasted this, so I will begin with apologizing for the lengthy article, and disorganization. So, I was just on ptr, trying out deeper shadows, subterfuge (yes, it seems bugged by a whole second, so it does nothing atm), DS, and dfa. This is mainly because bosses in dungeons are often single target. Anyway, I precasted SoD and waited about 10 seconds, opened with SS>SS>SS, backstab, nightblade. Then pool some energy, dance, SS as many times are you can and get an eviscerate out. I then pooled energy and cp to max and applied SoD ASAP. Once I had max cp, energy, and SoD up, I dance, nightblade, SS, goremaw, and DFA. After this I spam backstab and eviscerates until SoD is back(or close to it) and begin pooling again. This time around goremaw is on cd unfortunately, but the finality nightblade should be falling off soon. You now basically repeat your opener. An important thing is doing this made dance come off cooldown just a few seconds after dfa (20 seconds), and a several seconds before SoD (30 seconds) Notes: 1) I used dfa mainly to help as a timer, I am aware I am trying an aoe talent for single target, but having dfa and not premed makes it a bit of a baseline. Also by showing subterfuge+dfa still gets 2 super empowered finishers in the window of 1 dance given the animation window of dfa is nice to know, you you have about a freee second to have fun with. 2) the current t20 2 set shortens the window for SoD to line up with the dance charge return perfectly (or so it would seem). This means that the burst window comes fairly often, which is good. 3) goremaw's bite timing seems to go well with this thanks to pandemic durations and such. 4) Every nightblade was buffed. It seemed to work perfectly, assuming you get SoD back quickly enough. In other words you burst roughly every 30 seconds for 5 seconds with some strong nukes, then you build cp. 5)given the timing of this, aoe will be very nice, as you will be getting cp much more quickly, and very very strong eviscerate hits. As stated before, atleast with current tuning, 7M dfa final crit strikes was fairly common. 6) energy pooling didn't seem that bad for some reason. Granted, doing a finisher to start and end may have alot to do with that, but when you lack goremaw's bite you nightblade SS SS SS, and if you are lucky, a finisher (given these talents of course). The only change is you can't really chain dances anymore. That being said, I did not use shadow blades, and unequiped my 4 set (which will have nearly 0 chance of being used for t20, plus random proc data is hard to be accurate) Edit: For pooling using this rotation, you only need to pool to a max of 75 energy. This is because you will use nightblade, which uses 25 energy, but you gain (at least) 40 energy from the finisher, and 10 energy (at 0% haste) in the gcd time. That, or you can pull to 100 energy, use SoD, dance, nightblade to get the same effect. Also, to thow in vanishes for the legendary shoulders, it is important to note that the Deeper shadows does NOT work with vanish/stealth, that means ideally you would pool to max energy, vanish+dance, and then proceed. It is odd but it seems that may be optimal given you are not using premed. Also you can sprint often before this setup while pooling energy to get the same result. To sumarize when/how to do the burst window, it would look as follows: open with SnD precast (time for ideality unknown atm, sorry :/) SS SS SS backstab, nightblade Dance 1 (this dance exists to not cap on charges, what you do with it is up to you, but ideally you would end it with your first eviscerate and prepare for dance 2. Dance 2, enter with both finalities, SnD, sprint (of you have the shoulders) and then dance Nightblade+SS+goremaw+dfa/eviscarate (for dfa you need subterfuge) Dance 3(all future odd dances), enter with Eviscerate finality, SoD, vanish if it is up (for shoulder buff) This is nearly identical to the opener, but you start with cp, so you nightblade, SS SS SS SS (if you can). This is an odd part of the rotation as you need procs to get the 4th SS in, but the importance is the nightblade to be buffed by dance. Premed is ideal here as you can SS SS eviscarate with no problems Dance 4 (identical to dance 2 even if you have shoulders) Dance 5, same as dance 3, except the vanish is not up for shoulder crit Dance 6, same as dance 4 and 2 Dances come in every 30 seconds thanks to SoD timing starting dance 2, this means that goremaw's bite is up every other dance, as is sprint. Vanish is every 4th dance. As said earlier, it takes about 22-25 seconds to generate the charge back in full, so in theory there should never be an issue doing this every 30 seconds (unless the timing of your pre-pull SnD is off of course, but even then, it should cause 1 delay and then all future dances are up to speed.Evielth12 5d
6d Queue up as a lootbox A new queue system, where rogues may choose to join the "Jack in the Box" PvP opportunity, to randomly pop out of another player's lootbox from random battlegrounds and engage them in mortal combat. That's my legit suggestion, I want this to happen. lol.Rinwrin5 6d
6d Outlaw: Should Grappling Hook be baseline? I believe grappling hook should be a baseline spell for outlaw rogues. It feels like it's the equivalent of shadow step for the other specs. Yes, it's nice not having to have a target to be able to use, but you can get rooted while using it, don't get a speed boost after, and at least in instanced pvp, the hill is your enemy.Tyrantor20 6d
6d Greymane or VanCleef for combat ally? I’ve avoided using a combat ally because I wanted another champion to help with missions. But I got a legendary follower item from the command center that gives me order resources and an AP token for each world quest so whoever gets it is going to pretty much be on permanent combat ally duty. I’m leaning towards Greymane because of her guardian ability, but I’ve heard Vancleef often uses Kidney shot which would be really helpful. Or would one of the others that basically give you a new ability be better? Thanks.Nachtgeist6 6d
6d Is it possible to create a macro 4 this rotation Rupture maintained with >= 5 Combo Points. Hemorrhage to maintain the DoT (if selected). Garrote to maintain the DoT. Kingsbane on cooldown. Exsanguinate on cooldown (if selected). Envenom to dump excess Combo Points. Mutilate to build Combo Points. Im new to macros so I really dont know how it would work if any of these are GCD, or on CD so another skill is selected from this rotation instead.Nephrites13 6d
6d How much AP to save before flipping. So I recently "upgraded" my monks artifact and was dismayed to see that I don't have nearly enough AP to maintain my 10% damage buff. The additional ranks of the old attacks do nothing to alleviate this and I'm determined not to make the same mistake on my rogue. How much should I save provided that my artifact is currently maxed out?Gongfuren2 6d
6d Lose 10% mastery for 4k increase dps worth? So I just started simming my character for this current patch and the gear that sims the highest dps puts me at a 10% loss in mastery for a 4k increase on dps. I'm not sure if it is worth it but I'd like a second opinion. At the moment I am sitting at 139.03% mastery 26.97% crit and with the optimized gear I am at 129.37% mastery 31.27% crit, both putting me at the same item lvl. What do you guys think?Olabe8 6d