Nov 19, 2012 Hand of Salvation ... I appreciate the interest in changing this ability, but the current raiding environment just doesnt support threat reduction abilities like this. Same can really be said for Soul Shatter. Feint has changed away from this outdated model as well into a more meaningful damage reduction ability. I'd rather see it changed to a threat increase, along the lines of Misdirect or Tricks, or just redesigned all together to provide some other kind of benefit. Due to its name, its overall intention to help 'save' players, and some recent PvP changes that aim to cut down on the overall off-healing capabilities of Ret and Prot, I thought I'd through out this idea for consideration. ... The actual percentage of healing increase would most likely calculate based on the damage taken relative to their maximum health and stack every 2 sec over it's duration and provide an increase in healing received from the Paladin. So, for example, a Paladin with 350k health casts Hand of Salvation on themselves (or someone else) and then sustains a damaging attack of 70k. The Hand of Salvation buff gained would be 20% increased healing to that target from the Paladin. Another 70k hit gives them 40% extra healing. If that seems overtuned, the percentage benefit can be cut in half; 10% increased healing taken for a 70k hit on a 350k player. The duration is short and the CD is still fairly significant. My guess is the real issue will come to Holy, who will almost certainly find this a necessary buff on someone. But, it only works on healing received from the Paladin, so it's not an overall gain in healing, nor is it guaranteed. It relies on the target taking damage and the Paladin healing that target through the duration of the buff. It doesnt seem too much to give, and it provides a more meaningful buff.Ozmademos15 Nov 19, 2012
Nov 19, 2012 Blessing of Might or Kings I am fresh too starting back (5 days ago after some years,) I just dinged 81, and with the new Blessing of Might, I am confused on which too use.. Kings or Might, help in understanding and which too use is greatly needed.. Thanks!Akano13 Nov 19, 2012
Nov 19, 2012 Ret pally?keep ur receipt for poss refund. Whelp, hit 90 on my ret pally 2 days ago. Starting to wonder if maybe I should cut bait and reroll?? I felt like I ruled the bg and dungeons while leveling, leveling up was great with my ret pally. Good damage and fantastic heals. I hit 90 and its like my ret pally is not even the same toon that I grew accustomed to during leveling. Now I'm having problems with dps and my heals are no where near as powerful as they once where, which really negates a big portion of the benefit of being a hybrid class. Did my first heroic dungeon today and was kicked for low dps. Until 90 I never had problems keeping close to the other members in the 5 man dungeons in the damage dept. Now im being insulted and being called names like 'crap pally' and getting kicked. I recounted after I was kicked.... My dps was about 22K. The other members were 28,30,32K so I was a good bit behind. I fared not any better in my first RBG. Bottom of the class now in damage, and being accused of being a bot. To which I replied " I'm not a bot, I just suck I guess" This type of experience is completely foreign to me. I'm use to always being in the top 5-10 in damage on RBG and on occasion the number 1 overall damage dealer. I'm just wondering what the heck happened to my pally. The distressing thing is that this was not at all my experience leveling up my ret pally. There are those that will say to me that I just don't know how to play my pally. However, I felt i was doing awesome until 90. If this is what the ret pally is like at 90 not so sure I like it. In hind sight leveling up my ret pally now feels a lot like false advertising......this is not the character I grew to love during the leveling. Anyone else have a similar experience? I'm just having some serious pangs of doubt at the moment, as this is my first 90 toon ever and feeling a bit deceived.Ketorolac58 Nov 19, 2012
Nov 19, 2012 Druid or Paladin? (all round play) Hi, what’s a better combo for casual player? I like tanking on both my Druid & Paladin, and probably find the Druid rotation a little easier, but want a good offspec for questing and have found Ret more forgiving than Feral. I also want to switch offspec for healing too on occasions. Finally, would I be right that a Druid can get away with 2 sets of gear, one for tanking/dps and one for healing, whereas a Paladin would need 3 sets, one each for the 3 roles? Thanks.Docbones2 Nov 19, 2012
Nov 19, 2012 Holy Avenger CD It says 2 mins when it's more like 2:30 seconds. What an annoyance.Madawk6 Nov 19, 2012
Nov 19, 2012 HOLY help :) i love being holy pally ... but need some assistance plz what should the haste spirit ratio be i think im about 23% haste and 9.5k spirit (mastery 20% with might buff))... also im thinking of jacking my crit plz advise ..... and ty for your timeBatedcobra3 Nov 19, 2012
Nov 19, 2012 Holy Paladin Gems Sup, I've been seeing a lot of top holy paladins geming a lot of spirit, but then reforging largely from mastery. Wouldn't it be more effective to gem for int, and reforge for spirit? I must be wrong because almost every high progression paladin I look at is gemming almost all spirit, but I don't really understand why.Adraza3 Nov 19, 2012
Nov 19, 2012 Is this nerf official? Are RETS really getting a nerf to their off heals? If so, better start gearing up as holy... >.>Torso26 Nov 19, 2012
Nov 19, 2012 New Paladin Armor Set Request Now I know some people will disagree, but I have a request for a straight up pink plate armor set. Since paladin names are pink......why not have a cool looking solid pink armor set. If not for the male paladins, make it for the female pallys and then if people wanna make a male pally with a pink armor set then that's up to them. I know lots of people enjoy having the gold armor set and iv noticed the new Sunstone Panthers are nice and shinny gold to match. So......why not make a sweet pink type of mount to go with the pink armor. All I'm saying is that if your gonna make pally names and nameplates pink you might as well allow us to go the full length and go all pink. And to boost the chances of making it, Blizzard, you could always theme off of the breast cancer foundations. Might even make some money off that way too. So, PLEASE Blizzard think it over and do what needs to be done. And World of Watercraft subscribers its also up to you for input. More positive input means a better chance of blizzard doing it.Xorion21 Nov 19, 2012
Nov 19, 2012 why are the tier 14 normal mode models reused I finally got around checking out what my tier was going to look like and i noticed that while RF and heroic versions look really good, the normal mode tier chest, hands, and legs are the old tier 13 models and don't really match the head and shoulders at all. I would be more ok with this if i could get the offtier that looks the way it's supposed to but the only hpally legs that drop are from MV and do not share what is supposed to be the tier model. so is this a bug? or what.Paudson2 Nov 19, 2012
Nov 19, 2012 Holy pally or Prot pally for raiding? Heyy what spec do you think i should go for raiding? and dont anyone say do what you enjoy because i love tanking but tanking in raids is really hard and you need to know the fights. Holy on the other hand seems fun but its a completely new spec for me? So please what do you guys reckon is a easy spec for me. btw i do not want to play retribution ive got 2 dps classes allready and im bored of playing dpsGortank2 Nov 19, 2012
Nov 18, 2012 Please help me be a better ret paladin... Hello, I have been healing on this toon since BC. Healing is something I've always done and done well. Recently, my raid group acquired 2 additional healers, giving us 4 total in a 10 man. While I like healing, I decided to step up and help the group by dpsing most encounters. That said, Ret is something I fiddled with during each expansion, but ultimately dropped since I never got to use it. Yes, my gear is horrible. I know that is part of the issue but it's a work-in-progress (got a few drops tonight!!!!). My questions are as follow: 1. What is the best/easiest way to deal with the horrible inquisition mechanic? 2. What should my AOE rotation look like? ie. seal, skills etc.. 3. Stat priorities... Are they still Str>Hit&Exp cap> haste>mastery>crit? Also, at what point is it more worth it to prioritize mastery over haste if at all? 4. With all of the target swaps, how do I manage to NOT suck? The fight I'm having issues with is Elegon specifically though my dps drops like a sack of bricks on any fight with multiple targets. Any additional information is welcome. Thanks in advance. ~ Mytchi [edited for grammar/syntax]Mytchi9 Nov 18, 2012
Nov 18, 2012 A few prot questions 1. Where does hammer of wrath fit into the priority list for prot? 2. Is it worth it to downgrade my necklace by 6 ilvls in order to change mastery to hit? (Bloodseeker's Solitaire vs. Malevolent Gladiator's Choker of Accuracy) 3. I noticed that both of the tank trinkets that drop in T14 have dodge procs. My current trinket setup is Lao-Chin's Liquid Courage and Ghost Iron Dragonling with hit/haste/exp. Is it worth replacing either of these with any level of the dodge trinkets or will I be keeping them until the next tier? 4. I read a post saying that if you use enough cds to bring annihilate damage below overkill you can still use it for vengeance cheesing. I did some napkin math and calculated 152k with ShoR, GoaK, and DP (1.5m * .54 * .8 * .5 * .47), 243k with ShoR, AD, and DP (1.5m * .54 * .8 * .8 * .47), and 304k with just ShoR and DP (1.5m * .54 * .8 * .47). The .47 is for armor, assuming it reduces annihilate damage. Did I calculate this right and would it work? Thanks in advance for any answers.Shokkawin10 Nov 18, 2012
Nov 18, 2012 How much support is involved in tanking? Healing, bubbling, freeing, etc. Is it often? I'm thinking of making a protection paladin but the thought of having the use and monitor unit frames doesn't appeal to me.Belren4 Nov 18, 2012
Nov 18, 2012 (tank)Will of the Emperor help?(N 10 man) Hey, guys Look for some advise on Emperor. I'm taking a crap ton of melee damage on this fight and it's hard for me to stay up. We are two healing it with a holy pally and a monk. I'm trying to rotated cd's but I find myself in a melee phase with no cd's or cookies to use. I gear myself close to mr.robot beside stamina stacking. Should I be rolling with more avoidance? Drop some expertise? Any help or pointers would be awesome. thanksRigwaltz11 Nov 18, 2012
Nov 18, 2012 Anti-CC options? Being a tank, getting CC'd is never good. This occurs especially often in Siege of Niuzao Temple. What can I do to shed a CC once it's on me? Hand of Freedom will not cast once I'm already CC'd. I can go Ret for Emancipate, but Ret can't tank. I can roll Human for Every Man for Himself on the 5min CD, but that means losing my epic beard! I could have a PvP trinket, but I would have to sacrifice some stats even if I reforge it. Am I missing something? Is there some talent, some glyph, some other item I can get?Maxpro11 Nov 18, 2012
Nov 18, 2012 I'd Like to see some Polearms. I really hate having the ability to use polearms and never seeing any good ones. It would be cool if some were added to weapon specializations and the loot tables. There was a brief period on one of my alts in the 83-84 bracket, when I was decked in MoP greens and wielding a sweet polearm with strength and haste. It was so much fun. But now i'm back to nothing but swords and maces again. And is it true that our current BiS is an axe? Gross! haha! Anyways, why no love for the polearm Blizz?Lazerpants2 Nov 18, 2012
Nov 18, 2012 Supportadin - Retribution PvP So, what I'm looking for is a dps class that can also provide off-healing and utility support in a PvP environment. That means my choices are: Boomkin Feral Enhancement Shaman Elemental Shaman Shadow Priest Of these, I don't care for Boomkin, Feral's offhealing is minimal as is Enhancement's. Elemental is pretty weak right now. Shadow Priest is not a playstyle I enjoy. So I'm thinking Retadin. The tools seem to be there. How is ret for support and damage? Glyph of Battle Healer seems like a powerful option when not attempting to burst or being trained. If you glyph Blinding Light to knock down does it DR with stuns? Any words of wisdom?Manlypecs17 Nov 18, 2012
Nov 18, 2012 help with low dps. can someone look and see if there is anything wrong anywhere in my build? I.E. gems, skills, reforges, or anything else that is keeping my DPS so low? Any advice would be much appreciated.Bobthebuildr6 Nov 18, 2012
Nov 18, 2012 AoE Healing troubles So throughout the raids I have done (4/6 mv and almost did 1 HoF, not much I know but still something) I noticed that holy pallies really lack in AoE healing. The aoe heals we have either are extremely expensive (Holy Radiance) which is also a !@#$ spell, or cost holy power and does decent enough healing. But that's about it and so when heavy aoe comes I have the hammer on a 1 minute cooldown but nothing else very viable. Is there something Im missing?Getdunked6 Nov 18, 2012
Nov 18, 2012 So my paladin feel REALLY weak. So here I am. Leveling my way to 90 because I have enjoyed my paladin in WotlK. And EVERY FKING class I come against destroys me in world PvP. Not just a little but train wrecks me. A DK 3 shot me. Warriors hit like a !@#$ing tank. A mage I cannot even come close to touching. Everything just destroys me. So if I am a pvper and do not want to be suck just healing the whole time is ret even worth it? Because right now I feel that I am wasting my time leveling and I should just roll a warrior and be fine?Williamwalas12 Nov 18, 2012
Nov 18, 2012 Open Libram LV: Can't Do that While Silenced ... Previous Libram: Libram Archive: Paladin Social Networking: My Little Ponydins by Lobster: "Maid" by the Light by Lobster: "Bunny" Chaz by Lobster: Vanilla Ret Pally "Melgibsmash": Nov 18, 2012
Nov 18, 2012 prot pally belt question. vs Nov 18, 2012
Nov 18, 2012 Holy: Which do you prefer for PvE? Light's hammer, or Holy prism?Torso8 Nov 18, 2012
Nov 17, 2012 I die a MILLION TIMES ret questing? I've died a minimum of 10 times from 88, and I'm only 1/2 way to 89. I use SH for FoL procs, which only had 35k on me, but 100ks on friendlies.. If I use my HoPo on WoG, it's only a 35k heal for 3 HP... I'm keeping up inq 100% of the time... I die to 2 or more mobs, it's ridiculous. Half of the mobs have abilties where I can't interrupt or stun and they just spin around me hitting back to back to back to back to back 15ks and I'm done in a few seconds if I'm not using all my healing.. I'm honestly use Holy Avenger for the HP generation FOR WoG. I'm constantly using divine shield, BoP. I stun what I can, blinding light on CD. It's really quite ridiculous. Is anyone else having troubles?Sagalar30 Nov 17, 2012
Nov 17, 2012 Prot pally yt channels? anyone know of any good channels for a prot pally like zumio, swifty, bahjeera, etc etc?Kretonz1 Nov 17, 2012
Nov 17, 2012 Ret Paladin Nerf Inc With PvP Power getting hit, Ret Paladins get hit hard. Considering we are designed to Heal even as Ret as a part of our Defensive play style. Talents such as Selfless Healer will quickly become Worthless Healer and it leaves us back to only desiring one talent for each desired tree. What reason would you ever have to choose that talent if it the numbers will never work out? It will force one choice and one choice only, Shielding. Blizzard screams the new talent tree is all about choice but if this change happens we just go back to where we were in Cataclysm. It deeply troubles me this game is always in a state of flux after being out for almost a decade. I'm not being rude but how hard is math really? How hard is math when you have a calculator? How hard would it be to run a sim with all possible active passives and trinkets rolling to see max dmg or healing potentials? How hard is it really?Stolus129 Nov 17, 2012
Nov 17, 2012 lost ability to use judgment, can anyone help at level 24 I lost the ability to use judgment what happend and how do I get it backZansebararic10 Nov 17, 2012
Nov 17, 2012 Holy PVP strategy Hi there. Any guides around that are up to date on some stratetgies etc. Just looking for general tips or whatever on how to proceed...I am currently dueling and learning on him.. but wanted some pro advice. Thanks!Ralazzar1 Nov 17, 2012
Nov 17, 2012 Your Paladin role model I've been thinking, who is the Paladin that your character looks up to? And why? Is it Uther the Lightbringer? How about Ashbringer Alexandros Morgraine? Highlord Tirion Fordring? I have decided my role model would be High General Turalyon. He has the spirit of a leader, who wasn't blinded by vengeance or hatred, but only fought to protect others from harm. He was one who sacrified everything for Azeroth and her people as well as defeating Orgrim Doomhammer in the second war..... plus he scored one of the Windrunners. (/wink)Christhemity18 Nov 17, 2012
Nov 17, 2012 BiS ret trinkets I have not seen a list for Ret trinkets in an ascending order or anything. Would anyone happen to have a link? There's usually one floating around.Braydrel2 Nov 17, 2012
Nov 17, 2012 First world xmog problems. So I'm trying to decide on a holy-eque heavenly xmog set for my pally and was between these two weapons, just wanted your guys' opinions on it and any suggestions you had that could make the set look better. Thanks in advance!!! With Twinblade of the Phoenix: or With Stormrune Edge: Nov 17, 2012
Nov 17, 2012 Fix WOG: Harsh Words As tweeted to GC Niall Presnall ‏@NiallPresnall @Ghostcrawler Word of Glory has been bugged since MoP came out, being treated as a ranged attack. Doesn't work out of attack range or LoS 'Word of Glory has been bugged since MoP came out, being treated as a ranged attack. Doesn't work out of attack range or LoS' Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler @NiallPresnall It's because of the glyph of Harsh Words. Not sure how to fix. Kyrt ‏@kyrtfurey @Ghostcrawler Treat Harsh Words as a totally different spell with a shared CD? Call it Word of Wrath? Taught by Glyph and not modded So above is the solution. Basically in PVP if you're being forced to target something (or even, are just targetting something) like a Mage (as in their pet is hitting you or dots are keeping them as your target) you are unable to heal yourself while you're running away or they are LoS'ing .. it is near game breaking in Arena against decent players due to this massive handicap. Preferably make Harsh Word's a brand new spell so WoG can be retained as it always was before Harsh Words ruined it; I want to use WoG to heal myself (ie. never used harsh word for anything) only on my Ret and I don't want it bugging out and being basically useless due to the enforced target being out of range and/or LoS'd. Likewise Ret damage against any half decent healer (of all specs) is still pretty weak; sure, you pop all your CD's, the healer does the same, they negate your damage, and then you're back to limp noodle ret for 2-3 minutes, zz. Thanks BlizzGs11 Nov 17, 2012
Nov 17, 2012 Circumventing the nerf. Str>PvP power.Invincible5 Nov 17, 2012
Nov 17, 2012 Macro Help Inspired by the Tier 13 Prot Paladin 2 set, I wanted to make a similar effect with Judgement and Sacred Shield. I honestly have no idea how to make a macro that'll wait through a GCD for the second spell. To sum it up, I want a macro that would "Replace" Judgement, so that whenever I cast Judgement, I also cast Sacred Shield. Is this doable? If so how?Karob3 Nov 17, 2012
Nov 17, 2012 Ret macro help Will someone please tell me why this macro wont work?' #showtooltip Judgment /cast [nomod:shift] Judgment /cast [mod:shift, target=focus] JudgmentAmerkia8 Nov 17, 2012
Nov 17, 2012 Macro'ing SotR onto abilites So i was thinking...we normally want to keep up the SotR active mitigation as much as possible....sometimes i get into the habit of not hitting it because i was used to tanking in cata so much.... since SotR is now off the GCD, it would be possible to macro this to other skills without it effecting your rotation too much....the only downside would be pretty much never casting WoG...but if we have maximum uptime on SotR and your healer still can't keep you up, you were probably dead in the first place however i need help coming up with the macro for each attack....would it just be: /cast Shield of the Righteousness /cast <filler attack> basically i want to do my regular rotation without ever having to worry about watching holy power....and as soon as i hit 3 holy power...the next regular attack i use will pre-cast SotR....but if i don't have 3 holy power, it will just cast the regular attackWhatamelf12 Nov 17, 2012
Nov 17, 2012 Shockadin, anyone doing it? Seen some of the glyphs and talents that make me think a Shockadin might be valid dps. Is anyone doing this or seen anyone do it sucessfully?Virulaus49 Nov 17, 2012
Nov 17, 2012 Nobody invites Rets to raids this tier All the fights are ranged friendly, impossible to get into a raid this tier as a ret. Have to re gear for holy.Gideoni24 Nov 17, 2012
Nov 17, 2012 What add ons should I use for Prot pve? Just like the topic says. Thanks. :DAtarius1 Nov 17, 2012
Nov 17, 2012 Ret DPS: Are Professions THAT Important?? I was wondering how great of an impact profession bonuses have on Ret DPS. I am currently a JC/Miner. Are the bonuses from Blacksmithing and Engineering a substantial enough DPS increase that I should pick up those professions? Any input/evidence from top dps pallies is greatly welcomed.Felila41 Nov 17, 2012
Nov 17, 2012 Holy Pally -- Am I doing something wrong? Hey. So the person rbg leader who claimed to be 2500 in rbgs I had xrealms said that I healed too little and kicked me from group for it after two bgs where I ended with 7 million compared to the resto druids and resto shamans 10 million + and another where the resto shaman had 10 million at my 4 million and the resto druids 3 million. Honestly, Resto shamans and Resto druids always out heal me. Am I doing something wrong? I mean in the warsong gultch we were in, I focused on dispelling the mages deep freezes because all I saw was dps getting one shotted in them. But I got called out for my few dispels. (Resto shaman was at 100 dispels and me and the resto druid were between 32-34.) I mean if I see someone at low health and getting attacked, are they priority over dispels on dps? Honestly, I just want to know what I'm doing wrong as a holy pally.Shinrah5 Nov 17, 2012
Nov 17, 2012 Ret 3v3 Comp Question I was wondering what the better comps are for Ret in 3v3 arena. Was thinking: Ret / Frost Mage / (Not sure which healer would be best) Ret / Lock / (Not sure which healer would be best) Ret / BM Hunter / Rdruid -Going for rating- Thanks in advanceAshtro3 Nov 17, 2012
Nov 16, 2012 What happened to Holy Shock? We have an undocumented change that isn't even reflected in the tool tips. Why was Holy Shock gutted so terribly? By the types of glyphs that were created, it was very clear that Holy Shock was meant to deal damage with the right setup. This gave the impression we would actually be able to level in Mists of Pandaria as Holy. As of right now, with no warning, Holy Shock is doing less than 30% of it's tool tip damage, it seems. And that is WITH the glyph to increase it's damage by 50%. Why? I have heard the excuse that it was too over powered in low level PvP brackets. And frankly, so what? So are Hunters. So are Priests. So is anyone who is in Heirloom gear versus anyone who is not in Heirloom gear. I am looking for a concrete reason behind this stealth nerfing-into-the-ground, and haven't found one yet.Khaixur80 Nov 16, 2012
Nov 16, 2012 Any tips for protadins? Any tips to get my damage output up a little? seems kinda lowGalandris19 Nov 16, 2012
Nov 16, 2012 Which seal should I use? I'm getting tired of people saying Use seal of seal of insight...not seal of truth! Lol I use Seal of Insight for the extra healing because alot of the healers don't pay attentioin. Yesterday I was running a dungeon and the healer said "Tank I'm currently watching DBZ so I if I forget to heal you I apologize in advance.". I was like okay. Though most of the time I can keep myself alive. So tell me which seal should I use the most?Atarius13 Nov 16, 2012
Nov 16, 2012 Retribution DPS (One of these) Greetings Paladin Forums, I have a question about Ret DPS @ 90. Is it viable like other DPS in raids or are we at the bottom? How easy is rotation? I have a 90 warrior and 90 monk but I would like to play a paladin due to alot of utilities. Question 2: How do they fair in 1v1? Group pvp? Do we get roflstomped or do we hold our ground? I would love to know about your paladins and how well you efficiently you play yours. Thanks.Geekdup3 Nov 16, 2012
Nov 16, 2012 5.0+ pvp / pve guide for Holy Thinking of trying out my paladin for a bit any guides around for some tips ;) ?Ralazzar0 Nov 16, 2012
Nov 16, 2012 How does everyone feel about blinding light? Blinding light needs something more. I've been really upset with blinding light lately. It feels weak and unimportant compared to other classes new spells. It doesn't work in raids, or bosses. Other classes get a nice damage boost or utility, and we get immune to pop up. It can, and should be better! I think a spec specific solution, similar to shaman ascendence would work. Holy- "Holy light blinds foes and heals allies for X." This could be out solution for heavy raid damage that we don't have now. (I'm looking at you healing totem, Devine plea, and tranquility) Protection- "Holy light blinds your foes interrupts spell casting and forces their attention towards you." This can be our AoE taunt we don't have any more. On immune to blinding targets it should still taunt and interrupt. Ret-"as blinded foes stagger critical chance goes up x%" or "holy energy fills your soul increasing chance to crit by X for X secs." This would give us a nice damage bump, like ascendence and stampede. Just some thoughts on how they an make an awful spell much MUCH more useful.Egars29 Nov 16, 2012
Nov 16, 2012 Paladin DPS question Greetings and hello, I have a question regarding Paladin DPS. I know that ret is the main DPS spec, but how well does Holy and prot do in a dps position? Thank you ahead of time for your answers. Are either of these generally frowned upon?Sardian9 Nov 16, 2012