Nov 6, 2012 Id like to see hands or wog have a lower GCD i don't think it would be overpowered. I find sometimes i focus to much on doing damage that i cant support my team in bgs/arena. The opposite sometimes happens for me too and i feel like i'm not putting out enough dps. When my cooldowns are popped, i like to be able to put out as much dps as i can. it frustrates me when i'm spending full GCDs casting sacrifice/freedom/wog. I think it would be great and not overpowered to see the GCD for hand spells reduced, maybe cut in half. I could see this really benefitting Hand of Sacrifice (for me anyway), as i find i always want to use it, but i just don't see it worth the GCD, because i will probably replace it with a protection or a freedom soon after. Overall i'd like to see ret pvp as a decent dps, with strong heals from wog and support from hands. I feel like it's very close to being there, and still alot of fun, but the GCD from wog and hands is sometimes limiting me in going into only one of a support, or a dps role. wondered what you guys thought about this? I know my ratings are low, still think this is a valid point that could be argued.Garnaw2 Nov 6, 2012
Nov 6, 2012 Ret is missing something There is always a 2 second gap in my rotation where everything is on the GCD & I use the suggested rotation from Noxxic.Draconova7 Nov 6, 2012
Nov 6, 2012 "Free cleave damage is bad" Remember when Blizzard justified removing divine storm from the single target rotation because paladins had too much "free" cleave damage? It's a good thing they still care about that promise, otherwise we'd have things like Frost DKs passively cleaving just by using howling blast (part of their single target rotation) Hunters cleaving with glaive as part of their single target rotation Mages cleaving with talent tier 5 (nether tempest etc.) in their single target rotation Enh shamans applying flame shock to a second target automatically in their rotation Windwalkers hitting extra targets with fists of fury in their single target rotation etc. Phew, good thing all those things were never added and ret still has no free cleaving!Aristeia17 Nov 6, 2012
Nov 6, 2012 Why can paladins heal themselves without Withouth having to click on their Icon to heal themselves.Pallysrus6 Nov 6, 2012
Nov 6, 2012 How is holy pvp atm? In terms of survivability, healing and a general scaling to other healing classes?Lental8 Nov 6, 2012
Nov 5, 2012 Question with Holy Talents (Tier 3) Selfless Healer vs Sacred Shield vs Eternal Flame. I've heard most choose either SS or EF. The former for a "bubble" of sorts (to play like Disc Priests I guess?), and the latter for an extra HoT with their WoG. Then again, considering that we get close to enemies and we can heal with Focus and the like, I thought about using Selfless Healer; especially with the Glyph of Flash of Light to improve our healing. Eternal Flame still feels like the winner (especially since at least the initial heal can be used with Protector of the Innocent Glyph), but I'd like to ask for opinions from others on this before I make a solid decision. This is mostly in regards to PvE, but I might as well ask for future PvP reference too when I feel like playing Holy instead of Ret.Bassm7 Nov 5, 2012
Nov 5, 2012 My issues since MoP started I don't think I've been doing anything wrong (but I could be and not realize it), but I've noticed some things while leveling til 90 on my pally: 1. I'm taking waaaaay more damage than I should be. 1 mob I lose about 1/4 of my health - no biggie. 2-3 mobs I'm dragged way down to the point I'm dead or almost dead even after using my Flash of Light (both procced and non-procced). It's like I'm wearing cloth or no armor whatsoever. 2. Damage output is sucking bad - especially in AoE. Glyphed WoG is not providing the damage output it should (just from looking at mobs health when I use it with 3 HP I can see very little damage being done) is at a point I'm ready to change out that glyph. With the issue of #1, I've noticed this in areas where you can't help but pull 2-3 mobs at once no matter what (the mantids in Townlong Steppes and in Dread Wastes are the 2 main problem). Anyone else notice this or am I just a bad pally - which I don't think I am as I've been playing one for a while now.Hammahtime21 Nov 5, 2012
Nov 5, 2012 Begginner Pally help plz So, I finally hit 90 on my rogue, and while i still love him as my first and only character, I really need a new class. I really don't have a RDPS mindset and warriors got the whole flavor of the month thing going. I got my heirlooms except for the weapon. I want to know if I should go prot or ret for more PVP viability. And, any knowledge/tips/videos of advice would be appreciated. Thank you very much.Dench3 Nov 5, 2012
Nov 5, 2012 Help a noob out, will ya? So if you take a look at my gear, you might giggle a bit. I know, it's horribad. But that's just because this is my first attempt at learning Ret, coming from holy [: So, this gear isn't serious business. My arena partner bought it for me so I can simply start learning the spec, but here is one thing I'm wondering. (You're gonna lol) I'm not sure what type of weapon I should be using, since I've always used a shield and mace. Should I be using a two handed sword, mace, or axe? Ty for the help {:Màevina6 Nov 5, 2012
Nov 5, 2012 Does Eternal Flame HoT scale? Does the HoT from EF also scale with the holy power spent to cast as well as the instant heal? Because I have noticed that I have varying ticks from EF that range from 1-4k all non crits, I will look at the buff and it always says "502 healing per 2.88 seconds" and that person has 1k ticks, then I will look at say the tank, the buff reads the same but they are ticking for 4k in the same time period? And if it does that brings me to my second point, does that mean that if I heal someone with a 3 charge EF then heal them later with a 2 charge EF does the refreshed buff get weaker? Thanks for any info on thisHurrakane3 Nov 5, 2012
Nov 5, 2012 new to ret pally-ing I have a pally which I've always enjoyed healing with, but I'd rather level as ret than holy. So I went ret, got some ret gearz and did the starter quests for MoP. I didn't have trouble killing anything - certainly a lot faster than holy, and health wasn't an issue at all, between the occasional WoG, and occasional Flash, I was never in any trouble. The thing is that I feel like I'm missing A LOT on how to ret. Judge -> Crusader Strike -> ??? -> ??? -> Judge -> Crusader Strike -> Inquisition-> hey, look, templar's verdict (and divine storm and inquisition) are all lit up, yay! -> Templar's Verdict -> Templar's Verdict -> Judge -> Crusader Strike -> ??? -> ??? -> &c. &c. So, my question is what's ??? Nothing's lit up, I have one holy power, and it seems like there's nothing I can do except wait for crusader strike & judgement to come off cd.Williame5 Nov 5, 2012
Nov 4, 2012 Ret 4pc nerf 65 Secs off as compared to 85...I heard this will be a 23% HA>SW now? My main concern i guess is how well will ret perform later on, IE in t14 now as compared to before? Did we just drop from middle of the pack to high low end of the pack? :\.. PS GC im starting to think you never removed the hybrid tax on us rets :(Sheephappens14 Nov 4, 2012
Nov 4, 2012 Ret PVP is fine. It sucks giant balls until you are able to get some gear. After that point it feels quite balanced to me. This is in the context of random BG's only. I havent played any RBG's this xpac yet. Just wanted to give my opinion on all the "qq ret sucks threads" . And i was right there with you for the first few weeks, dont get me wrong. So this is basically just to let all the new guys struggling with Ret, that it does get exponentially better with gear.Gorjax43 Nov 4, 2012
Nov 4, 2012 Holy PVP w/4 piece ret anyone doing it? How is it working out for you?Maxsteiner6 Nov 4, 2012
Nov 4, 2012 Dwarf Paladin Mount's a little bit overdue by now right? Instead of a ram....I'm feeling a sick decked out armored bear. MMMMM sexy.Pallygraph8 Nov 4, 2012
Nov 4, 2012 Open Libram LIII: The Righteous Retreat ... Previous Libram: Libram Archive: Paladin Social Networking: My Little Ponydins by Lobster: "Maid" by the Light by Lobster: "Bunny" Chaz by Lobster: Vanilla Ret Pally "Melgibsmash": Stealing the Libram, just cause.Paladinchaz500 Nov 4, 2012
Nov 4, 2012 execution sentence not so good so iv'e been testing holy prism and execution sentence and just for a 1min cd thats suppose to be a heavy damage burst towards the end turns out to be just as much if not less compared to holy prism besides the dot damage of execution sentence. i done this for awhile testing both out, getting 60-80k crits with holy prism instant cast and being able to use holy pirsm more better with my burst moves unlike execution sentence, not to metion a big falling hammer coming from the sky is pretty obvious it's a burst on them, i think execution sentence should always be a 100% crit chance towards the end just like dragon roar, since execution sentence is a longer cd than holy prism, it's also obvious and takes longer to set up your burst, either way kinda disappointed with this ability that should sum up to more damage towards the final burst.Avrand1 Nov 4, 2012
Nov 4, 2012 ret spriest vs disc priest ret so on a happy note today was my first day of arena. Holy !@#$ this is fun. When you're a noob and all this stuff is going on it's like running through traffic surrounded by naked women. I can't think. I digress... despite the talk at how disc priests are not so good they are way tankier than I thought. We had a bit more success going on the ret but not without me going super low. Is there a particular strategy or simple-as-hell cc chain we could go back to again and again so that we can train one guy? Or strats in general with the comp.Hyosun0 Nov 4, 2012
Nov 4, 2012 Wotlk holy pally vs MoP holy pally Which do you think is beter, and a overall stronger healer. I personaly believe Wotlk pally was I was probably one of the only pallys back then that used flash of light as my main healing move back then. I used to beable to place sacred shield on the tank then flash of light him and the sacred shield would make it double heal. Also holy shock would add tons of haste to my next flash of light. That move was cheap cheap back then and my mana pool would last forever. Whats odd is i feel like flash of light now heals for just as much as back then but its so much more expensive now.Seraphím26 Nov 4, 2012
Nov 4, 2012 execution sentence not so good so i've been testing holy prism and execution sentence out, and just for a 1min cd thats suppose to be a heavy damage burst towards the end turns out to be just as much if not less compared to holy prism besides the dot damage of execution sentence. I've done this for awhile testing both out, getting 60-80k crits with holy prism instant cast and being able to use holy pirsm much more better with my burst moves unlike execution sentence, not to metion a big falling hammer coming from the sky is pretty obvious it's a burst, I think execution sentence should always be a 100% crit chance towards the end just like dragon roar, since execution sentence is a longer cd than holy prism, it's also obvious and takes longer to set up your burst, either way kinda disappointed with this ability that should sum up to more damage towards the final burst. either way i'm wandering if i could get some info about these two since i still see some pallys using this in bg's or if they're doing the same as me testing execution sentence out.Avrand0 Nov 4, 2012
Nov 4, 2012 PvP Holy Pally - PvP Power or Int? This is a pretty straightforward question: Should I use my Relic of Chi Ji or my Badge of Dominance? I've tried testing it out but I don't really see that much of a difference either way.Tibli2 Nov 4, 2012
Nov 4, 2012 Is Shockadin still feasible or no? Hello All - I'd heard early in MoP that a shockadin spec was again viable even for PvE. I'm just now getting around to messing around w/ it just for fun, and from what I can tell it's been nerfed somewhat. I was just wondering if anyone is still doing it and just how nerfed it is? Should I even bother? Thanks for any info; have a good one.Hieron9 Nov 4, 2012
Nov 4, 2012 Hammer of the Righteous should be baseline The main reason HotR should be baseline is to give Holy an AOE attack. That's about it really... Thoughts?Gabath2 Nov 4, 2012
Nov 4, 2012 Hammer of the Righteous...when? Totally newb pally. When should I be using Hammer of the Righteous? (PvE and PvP)Luvok7 Nov 4, 2012
Nov 4, 2012 PvP Ret - 1h and Shield, which ones? Do I use healing 1h and shield or strength ones? I recall from Lich King that most rets used the healing stuff because they would try to proc art of war with the faster swing speed and heal themselves with slightly buffed flash of lights from the SP. Now healing weapons have less swing damage and I feel like ret's heals don't benefit nearly as much from SP as they used to. So is it better to use strength 1h and shield when going defensive?Lazah34 Nov 4, 2012
Nov 4, 2012 It doesn't make sense that we have to... Kite every melee class in the game 1v1 (except Enhancement Shaman). Can't really kite a Feral Druid so forget that. That said, that means there is something wrong with Ret if that is the case. You can not really kite other melee in arenas or rbgs, and since we don't have any physical protection so to say (don't even give me that plate BS), other melee just dish out so much damage to us. Warriors can parry every attack while they have Retaliation popped. So you have to time your "stun" right to do damage to them which is highly unlikely because they have a dispeller. I love how Warriors can crit me for 120 - 130k with heroic strike and I'm in Full PvP gear, While I hit them back for baby arm damage.Iziren15 Nov 4, 2012
Nov 4, 2012 Ret Spell Request: Holy Bomb Ok, hear me out. This would be for Ret Paladins: Holy Bomb: Creates an holy dome with a 10 yard radius around the Paladin for 5 seconds. Enemy Heals into the dome are split between between the Paladin and his allies. 3 min cooldown. Instant. Differences from smokebomb: - Enemies can still target the Paladin and his allies. This would only effect healing. Thoughts?Jonhenry6 Nov 4, 2012
Nov 4, 2012 Hit Cap not really cap If hit cap is supposed to be 7.5% why is my prot paladin missing occasionally on white damage and holy damage when I am at 7.52% hit and 11.79% Expertise? I shouldn't be missing at all against the boss but I see I missed a little under 1% of the time against the raid boss. A case of the tool tip not lining up with reality?Redpriest10 Nov 4, 2012
Nov 3, 2012 Buff retribution paladins. Seriously. Me at level 88 was able to faceroll a lvl90 ,lvl89, and two lvl86 paladins without barely getting touched. I felt kinda bad for hurting the guys ego that I let the guy hit me a couple times and kill me.Kazmius46 Nov 3, 2012
Nov 3, 2012 Garalon Pheromones & Blessing of Protection If you BoP'd someone who had pheromones if it would cause the boss to deaggro? I am wondering because the aggro is technically from the pheromone debuff that the BoP would not remove. Apologies if there is some mechanic I am not taking account for! Thank you.Jovana2 Nov 3, 2012
Nov 3, 2012 Question regarding Holy PvP trinket Hello, I recently leveled my alchemy to max and got the Zen Alchemist Stone trinket ( and was wondering if this would be a good trinket to replace one of the PvP trinkets? The proc rate seems rather consistent and increased intellect is always nice but the fact that I would lose alot of PvP power and Resil from the PvP trinket makes me iffy. Any feedback would be great. Thanks in advance.Suprrpoopr0 Nov 3, 2012
Nov 3, 2012 Valor Point spendage I have the rep/coin for GL shoulders but someone on here once advised me to go for the malevolent shoulders? Tough time deciding as they are the only thing I can not upgrade in MSV... Pointers? thankyouAbcremix2 Nov 3, 2012
Nov 3, 2012 Nothing to see here, Just an undergeared Ret Heres a PvP video of what I can do even as Undergeared as I am. I love ret this Xpac. Nov 3, 2012
Nov 3, 2012 Expertise or hit rating? Which stats are more important for a ret , pvp?Pallysrus1 Nov 3, 2012
Nov 3, 2012 Gear Design Question I thought I read from blizzard a while back that they were thinking about making gear that changed with your spec. Example: Ret pally=Strength based / Holy Pally=Intellect based. So if you are ret with strength gear and change to holy, the gear becomes intellect based. Was there a discussion of this or am I making this up? I am very busy and am not always on the forums so go easy on me here. It came to mind because with the new system where you can upgrade your current gear through valor/conquest points, the thought of keeping up with two sets of PvP gear (ret/holy) seemed a bit much. Don't get me wrong. I think this is a wonderful system, but take the warrior for example. You can go arms, furry or tank using the same set of gear which is great. The pally on the other hand seems like it's such a grind to gear both specs because they require such different stats. I love ret and holy and want to experience other parts of the game without always feeling like I have to spend all my time upgrading two sets of PvP gear(I'm not even thinking about two additional sets of PvE gear). These are just thoughts and I haven't really formed a solid opinion. I just wanted to know if there was a discussion of this going on and if not that's cool. No trolling please. Like I said, I'm not able to keep up with the forums as often as I'd like and wondered if you guys who are more knowledgeable than myself had any ideas or thoughts on the matter.Magdalum3 Nov 3, 2012
Nov 3, 2012 Ret PvP 4pc ok for tanking? Well, aside from the occasional crit, most of our PvP pieces have some amazing stats for tanking. So, seeing this I got to wandering. Would it be worth it to try and use our 4pc bonus for tanking? An extra holy power every 8seconds would be amazing. What do others think about the possible viability of this?Holoo6 Nov 3, 2012
Nov 3, 2012 How do I use my hands? [PVE] I haven't really used any of the hand of ____ abilities and I want to start. Where and how should I use these? Is there a way to setup vuhdo to help me be more aware of when to use these? List of abilites I don't know how to use in PvE: Hand of Freedom Hand of Protection Hand of Sacrifice Hand of salvation Hand of Purity (if I take it for a specific fight) I appreciate the feedback this forum is one of the kinder wow forums.Healzbeard7 Nov 3, 2012
Nov 2, 2012 Holy prism I know this spell is useful in some situations, but at least for ret it feels entirely underwhelming, especially in it's animation. Can we please have a giant hammer drop and blow up on the target like a supernova or something? i mean it is a level 90 talent.Glencoco8 Nov 2, 2012
Nov 2, 2012 Denounce and Killing machine? Does it stop all crit's? I denounced a frost DK in a BG but i still saw Frost strikes and Obliterates critting on me with my add on. It is entirely possible that there was another frost DK but i just thought I should ask to see if i'm wasting healing time trying to denounce high crit players? I mean normally I do it on a warrior when I see recklessness, but i never got hit to see if it works, i just read the tool tip and assumed it did. Am I wasting my time denouncing people just to put the debuff on them??Hurrakane9 Nov 2, 2012
Nov 2, 2012 Ret help Hey all I am looking for some advice about DPS for paladins, I have gone and read up on elitist jerk about how to do lots of damage but it seams I must be missing something. On a target dummy I can pull around 42k but I get into a 5man or LFR and I am half that most times around 27-30k.. Any tips? I think my gear is pretty good (ect the pvp shoulders 5man heroics don't drop) missing a few enchants don't want to enchant my sword waiting for the LFR one to drop since the dancing steel cost over 3k on my server. Any help would be amazing, sorry for any spelling errors. If your just going to troll I shall sit here and laugh and drink.Zarlis11 Nov 2, 2012
Nov 2, 2012 [Ret] At what point do I gimp myself... by trying to be too support oriented? If thats possible. Granted, I enjoy BGs more than I like doing arenas. But is there a point where my off-heals and partner support become redundant and I no longer make myself viable as a hybrid? Does my survival hinge on my ability to help my team DPS, or is it directly linked to the amount of healing I can put out? I know this kind of mentality is better suited for arenas. Should I just give up on my teammates and make myself happy by focusing on my burst? I hate Holy, but I am entertaining the idea of being a battle-healer playing as ret. Is this viable?Monodex3 Nov 2, 2012
Nov 2, 2012 (Holy) Divine Purpose proc scaling? So i have seen some conflicting information on this, but does anyone know if divine purpose's proc chance is lower if you use a WoG/EF at less then 3 holy power? It seems that i get more proccs casting at 3HP, but it's so random its hard to tell for sure. As a followup, if the proc chance is indeed a function of the number of HP used, does that mean we should steer away from hotting up the raid with 1HP eternal flames?Corvala2 Nov 2, 2012
Nov 2, 2012 Pvp guild The Undesirables is looking for dedicated PvPers for RBGs we are recruiting anyone who loves to PvP. We are at a CR of 1700 looking to push to 2400 before the season ends! Requirements: Skype is a big must for our RBGs. Communication is key cant stress it enough. Don't have a horrible microphone. Know how use cool-downs effectively. Also know how to play your class -Basic Info- Alliance Guild Server: Kil'jaeden Rated Battle Ground Schedule: We want to aim for 4pm-8pm PSTÀzriel0 Nov 2, 2012
Nov 2, 2012 Pally Tanking Questions alright guys, i've read up on my prot pally stuff and i know what i need, i just have a couple of questions. First, Trinkets, would a Str on use for haste be better than one of the trinkets i currently have? i have the BoE out of MSV for my DPS set, and i have enough valor to get the DPS Str/haste from shado pan, i'm just not sure if they would be an upgrade. Second, Crit Strike - I know Elitist Jerks says to stay away from DPS gear with Crit strike on it, and that's understandable, BUT would haste with crit strike gear be a bigger upgrade than avoidance gear? this expansion has just made pally tanking confusing as all hell, i just need a bit of help. I use askmrrobot for my reforging and gemming, but with the reforging/gemming it tells me, i'm not expertise capped. if anyone could suggest some stat weights, i would appreciate it. Any and all constructive feedback is appreciated. Nov 2, 2012
Nov 2, 2012 Inquisition Yes another Inquisition post basically reiterating proposed ideas. Since Inquisition is on GCD, change Glyph of Inquisition to "Inquisition can now be used with 0 holy power, resulting in an 8 sec duration." And then when used, each holy power increases duration of Inquisition by 15 seconds capping at 45 seconds.Exemplar15 Nov 2, 2012
Nov 2, 2012 Noob tank questions. I'm new to tanking so i just need to know what my stat caps are.Vitamix1 Nov 2, 2012
Nov 2, 2012 I am confused I keep seeing people talk about Holy Avenger, and this straight confused me at first because I didn't know what it was. Then I looked it up and now I am confused. Hammer of Wrath is our "strongest" ability, right? I've been using Sanctified Wrath all this time because Avenging Wrath lasts 50% longer and it makes our Hammer of Wrath have a fairly short CD so I use it every other this bad? What's so great about Holy Avenger over this? Is the extra hammer of wraths and longer duration lesser than 30% extra damage on CS/Judge/Exor for 18 seconds???Adainaal6 Nov 2, 2012
Nov 2, 2012 Holy Prism Does anyone else agree that the animation for this talent is just a little bit lack-luster? I was expecting, like, a literal prism of light to appear over the head of an enemy or ally and do its desired effect by sending down a wall of light, healing and damaging its respectable targets in the blast. When I first used it, though, I didn't even know it did anything. It feels so igsinificant...Loreness4 Nov 2, 2012
Nov 2, 2012 New holy pally my 10m group is in need of a healer so I'm considering re-speccing and gearing my pally holy. I've been reading over the basics as far as reforging gemming and gearing my question is concerning haste/mastery. I understand there is alot of debate over the two, and really both sides seem to have valid points. However I think I'm going to go the side of haste. What I can't seem to find are haste breakpoints. Pre raid 463 gear what's my first haste breakpoint and going forward what would be my second if there is any breakpoint at all.Bekks16 Nov 2, 2012