Aug 30, 2012 Loving the "shockadin" Im loving the dps capability of holy paladins at the moment. I know this will not last and that its tuned around level 90 or whatever, but Oh-Em-Gee. Hour of Twilight - Asira Dawnslayer, I sustained just over 19K dps while healing at 14k hps (recount numbers). Nothing amazing, but hey, its miles from what we've had in the past. I also ran lfr and did a pure dps run on Ultraxion, and pulled 24k dps. There were some mana issues sustaining this over the fight but not bad. For those of you who have not tried a "shockadin" build thus far, I highly recommend it while it lasts, it is a blast (rhyme intended)! I love my paladin, but I have not had THIS much fun on my pally in a long time /cheer! =)Koralo10 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 Boundless Conviction UI Hello, I've been playing around with my paladin over the last couple days, and I love the functionality that Boundless Conviction provides! However, I think the bottom two lights on the Holy Power UI bar could be enlarged. They are surprisingly small compared to our main 3 Holy Power indicators. At the risk of jeapordizing my authority, I honestly didn't notice the bottom two Holy Power indicators for a couple of hours, because they are just too small to be able to see when taking a quick glance at the HoPo UI bar. I like the position of them underneath the main HoPo bank, I just think they should become slightly larger in order to be more visible in the heat of battle.Provedense2 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 So i was questing in STV today... Trying to get some loremaster done while im bored waiting for MoP and this hunter comes down and starts shooting away at me, normally this would be key for me to run and spam and eventually and frustratingly get to a town somewhere while he ineffectively tries to kill me but since 5.0.4 that aint happening. I turned around and !%#*d face, 30k holy shock crits and denounce just chipping away at him, laughed of his damage with my sacred shield and a few flashes. 30sec later I was sitting on his face in quiet contemplation of how much im enjoying this op period between cata and mop. Hell if i'm up against someone without pvp gear on I can mash out insane crits almost hitting 6 figures if I pop wings n junk... Anyone else ruin someone's day?Binkly0 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 T2 Ret Paladin Youtube Channel! Hey guys! In the coming weeks I will be looking to consistantly release content regarding Retribution PvP in all forms including: - Arenas and the comps which will run the best in MoP - Spec guides in regards to why I do and do not choose certain talents - BG Montages -As well as UI and Macro guides for any uninitiated or anyone looking to start to PvP! Here's the channel guys! I understand it is lacking at the moment and the quality is a bit lame for my first video, but I promise you I have fixed it with a whole host of awesome video ideas coming up in the following fortnight! Subscribe to be notified!Solvexx0 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 Missing a taunt? So I log on today to mess around and test stuff out, and it seams I am missing the taunt "Righteous Defense" I can't find it anywhereDésu8 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 Macro help plz So i went to duel this other ret pally yesterday and he just kept popping his sacred shield every time it came off cd it was boom and I've tried and tried and i cannot seem to create a macro that auto casts ss on me automatically off cool down help please?Chemetra1 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 Tanks that have gone out for a few laps... So, for those that have run Heroics and DS since the changes, any quick, non theory craft tips? This isn't about textbook rotation and stat changes as it is your experience with the game play and/or threat generation. I just want know what to expect before I subject strangers to my tanking tonight. Thanks!Cadmus14 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 Somethings as a pally don't feel right. Ok so far as ret I'm not really enjoying this class anymore as dps. The reason for this is like any good changes make larger sacrifices for not much of a reason. One example of this is the fact that we finally got a cleave with hammer but lost a loved aoe of holy wrath, why ?. It's losing 6years of a Spell that as and would've continued to be useful. The second thing for Ret that I have comes from the 5th tier choices. The choice between holy avenger, a great spell visual and just as well a nice bit of burst is on the same choice of a passive ability that since Cata was actually built into the spec anyway. To me it isn't exactly even to have to choose between something we had already to something that would make burst evenly fair. Moving away from ret. I so far don't have much of a issue with prot except that (so far going with all tank) that they lost mass taunting, I don't see the point of it I'm assuming it was to make everything more "challenging" later on but it does seem right. This is just my opinion on the classes first impression now since the patch came. And for changes btw I would like to see holy wrath back as a all around ability again and also have divine purpose back as a auto gain talent for ret as either it's mastery again or just a passive and replace the choice with something else.Alorthion0 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 15% speed boost and heal/tank The 15% speed boost helps me keep up on healing, being able to move to an ally that is too far from me, it makes healing much more easier! As for tanking, it really just helps me stay on target, and get to it faster, as well as moving off to grab some threat on something that dps snagged off me, it really is a great talent! My guess with ret would be much the same thing, on a pvp stand point, you can get onto an enemy on foot much faster, and move out of hitting distance, overall, i think its is a great passive talent to take!Phappy2 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 I really like ret now. The play style is much better. I haven't a clue what my dps is since I have yet to reinstall recount, but the play style I am very happy with.Slater15 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 Holy shock. I have it talented to 50% reduced cooldown, but its still sitting at 6 seconds? Anyone else dealing with this?Bubbletruble4 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 Lulret... (pic)[/IMG] I love how everyone say's Ret sucks now... Ofc it doesn't compare to our OTHER spec... but it's still op.Raev3 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 Paladin noob question for 5.0 leveling I was leveling a ret paladin when the patch hit. I am level 40 at the moment and they have moved exorcism to level 47 as well as other changes, my damage is way down and I take forever (compared to yesterday) to kill same level mobs. Could you give me any suggestion as to which rotation to use? or should I respec to holy maybe for leveling?Chatevil3 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 Thoughts on Ret PvP Damage and Tier 2 talents Hi there, I'm sure as many of you Rets out there know that there are some long awaited changes that have finally come. For starters, we gain numerous abilities that allow us to remain on target, and also have other abilities that have boosted our utility (healing, BoPs, Sacs, etc...). But one thing that gets me with this change is our non-burst damage in PvP. I gotta say, t's not great. Not a fan. And the tier 2 talents, tell me your thoughts on them. Thanks!Vangüard9 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 Old School Paladins! Who remembers this??\ Lets take a moment of our time to look back on where the class was 6 years ago... AND THEN CAST FROST SHOCK!Dandaman6 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 Name of a good PVP Holy Pally? Hi, i'm just looking for the name of a pro pvp holy pally, well known and skilled. I want to check him out on armory and maybe youtube if there is any of them. ThanksShikome2 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 Might needs to provide attack power too No reason for me to run around solo wit 15% less damage Its been a staple It gives me spell power =)Meganfoxadin0 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 [Holy] Awkward Gap in AoE Rotation? During periods of heavy AoE damage, I'm running into this situation Holy Radiance -> Daybreak Holy Shock -> Holy Radiance -> Light of Dawn Holy Radiance -> (Daybreak procs, but Holy Shock on cooldown.... what to do next?) I guess I could cast a Holy Light on someone (or just do nothing?), then I have a <1 second window between the cooldown of Holy Shock and the duration of the Daybreak proc. Or i could do another Holy Radiance, but that would be wasting a perfectly good Daybreak proc which is far less expensive than Holy Radiance. Does anyone else experience this strange gap in the rotation? What do you fill it with?Jãsmin2 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 Give me Consecration back please.. I really don't understand why consecration was taken from the ret spell book. SoT and DS can't keep up with other classes AOE damage. I get a average single target damage of 35k, but my AOE is mid 20s. Maybe someone could explain what I am missing here?Zuroch3 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 whats with the Paladin cooldowns what is the reason behind puting Crusader strike on a 4 second cooldown,along with hammer of Righteous,thats insane.Kelyisa7 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 So... About that spec called Holy... I only played ptr for a day, didn't bother following too much. But I finally got back on for the patch today and I have a few questions! Now, I was once a pretty decent healadin. I loved it. I was always there to answer questions people had, but now, I seek the guidance of the Forums. :3 Are some of these talents just fillers? For instance: 1st and 2nd tier. Eternal Flame vs Selfless Healer? Thoughts? Unbreakable Spirit v Hand of Purity? Divine Purpose or Sanctified Wrath? Also, what about Glyphs? And stat priorities, now that our mana has been leveled out? Thanks greatly in advance. <3 Selama ashal'anore.Vèlirrís17 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 list of Ret paladin losses Holy Wrath Consecration Exorcism auto crit vs undead/demons Glyph of Exorcism effect Auras(all paladins) auto sacred shield at near death(traded for active sacred shield talent from wotlk) 2 min Avenging wrath Zealotry(changed for an improved version in a talent) Divine Purpose(in the same tier as zealotry talent) Eye for an Eye Pursuit of Justice/Judgement speed boost(have to pick one or the other) access to Holy/divine light & holy radiance spells Repentance(got nerfed and is now a talent) Vindication Glyph of Vengence/truth expertise bonus Seals do not trigger from exorcism take what you will but apparantly losing all this is supposed to improve our play experience? /discussMandulis13 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 patch dislikes im sure blizzard is working on the kinks of the new patch, but every since i downloaded it my paladin is crazy powerful. i can kill level 26 raptors with one hit of flash heal... i enjoy a challenge while playing, and this patch has kind of taken that away. i hope this gets fixed later on comment if you feel the same way or if there are things that are bugging you with the pandaria patchVacente1 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 Prot damage seems extremely low Anyone else concerned about this? From a tanking point of view its pretty good, but Prot paladins need to be able to kill things as well, I mean I just did a heroic sethek halls and it took me three times as long because damage was just so low Are other tanks in the same boat? I was excited by the prospect of Prot-PvP this expac but that's not possible atmZavala15 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 Infusion of Light is now Daybreak proc image. I don't know if it's a bug or intentional, but the Daybreak proc image is appearing for Infusion of Light and... frankly, I've always much preferred the Infusion of Light image to Daybreak. I've just enjoyed Daybreak because I know what it meant, I get to spam some Holy Shock. But if that mechanic has been removed and you've got to choose between the two images for the proc, I think the Infusion of Light image was more appealing. It was very... pointed, and as Paladin heals are very direct and very pointed, it really felt good. Very paladin-like.Lowrey3 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 VP (now JP) vs Tier Gear Hey guys. So I was looking around the forums for information between these two choices and found that they were all based before 5.0.4. My question is about choosing between the 2pc LFR Tier 13 Set (for the set bonus) or using the Ilvl 397 VP gear, which can now be obtained with JP. Right now, I'm using the helm and chest piece of the LFR tier set and am thinking about getting the ilvl 397 pieces to replace them. The same would go for the other 2pc set bonus that I have equipped (immolation). Any thoughts towards deciding which is better for optimizing DPS from gear?Unobtanium0 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 Feeling very lost right now... Since the patch I haven't been able to get used to my pally since my layout is halfway gone. I'm not sure I can pull this off since I was used to dps but after reading some posts I noticed a lot have mentioned healing. I do want to learn what to do with my class because I hate the feeling of "hurry up, do dailies, get off." I want to go back to lfr so that maybe someday I can enter a real raid. I haven't reforged or redone my glyphs because I am unsure of what to use. I haven't figured out a new layout since my newly acquired confusion on what I am actyually supposed to do. I'm strictly on pve/raid right now since I always felt I was garbage in pvp (which I now think was the lack of healing myself.) I'm wondering if you guys could help me out a bit, but I feel this will just end in an omg fail retadin rerole.Istara1 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 talenst since update just wanted to see what Prot paladins are sunning with since the update... i remember CATA i respected at leaset 20 times before i could make up my mind :) what are you running with and have you taken it for a ride :)Megavolt11 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 Avenger's Shield: Graphic or Function? So right now when I cast Avenger's Shield, it hits its three mobs and then...then it comes back to me, seemingly with no effect at all. Is this just a new (and interesting) graphic, or is there some purpose that I'm not seeing?Heraqawa1 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 Avid Ret PvPers: This or that? I still suck at PvP, and staring at armory pages doesn't help me any. I need real answers with real reasoning behind them as I attempt to put together my Ret PvP "spec." LAotL vs PoJ Why? FoJ vs BoG Why? EF vs SS Why? US vs Clemency Why? I'm going to be using DP because I enjoy WoG/EF bombs. Remember that this is for BGs only (obviously). Thanks in advance for any informed answers you may provide me with.Svayne11 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 Prot... I seem to be having a hard time keeping aggro especially from locks and hunters pets (for some reason). Only having one taunt kinda stinks too. Idk, maybe I've just gotten lazy and not had to try to keep aggro and now I have to try... I'll get use to it. Anyone else having similar problems as prot or am I just a noob, noobing it up?Fusoya3 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 30, 2012 Just desserts Serves me right. A few days ago I was actually starting to like my RET again. Poor guy doesn't get much playtime. But I was just beginning to feel a little power. Just a little playability. You know, that feeling when you begin to think maybe you're not a TOTAL waste. After yesterday, of course, I'm more like a tender young newborn faun. Standing for the first time on my spindley, shakey little legs. My moist enormous eyes frightfully scanning for anything, even the tiniest insect or the most benevolent forest creature, that might destroy me with one blow. lolAlexdefolet3 Aug 30, 2012
Aug 29, 2012 @People who need healbot! I was able to get it to work on my end, but please remember that it might not have all the MOP spells, but this is SOMETHING that will hold you over till the developer fixes the issues. Aug 29, 2012
Aug 29, 2012 holy shockadin Is it viable for dps in PVE/dungeons?Solicon7 Aug 29, 2012
Aug 29, 2012 Prot Paladin missing while hit capped... I know this is a new patch and we're all still trying to figure out new rotations and possible issues with our classes. However, I came across an issue that possibly has come up before. Last night my guild was doing Dragon Soul and I was having a hard time keeping threat. I didn't know why. I did some research and found that tanks need to start stacking hit and expertise again. Long story short for those TL'DR'ers out there. I did go and get hit capped, but I'm still missing with my avenger shield, judgements, and censure debuff. Is there something I'm missing or are these supposed to miss now not matter if we are hit capped/expertise capped? Are our abilities now spells and need to be spell hit capped, too? Thanks for the help!Varyenna4 Aug 29, 2012
Aug 29, 2012 Santified Wrath passive not working for holy? I am holy. The tool tip says holy shock will have a reduced cooldown of 50% Holy shock still has a 6 second cooldown after this passive talent, it does not reduce to 3 seconds. Is it bugged? Should I pick another talent for now? ThanksSmoothie4 Aug 29, 2012
Aug 29, 2012 Paladin Glyphs So it seems like paladin is the one class missing a bunch of glyphs. Are they in game or Blizz droped the ball?Rainmon0 Aug 29, 2012
Aug 29, 2012 Holy or Ret for Arena / Rated BG in MOP? What's gonna be the best option for PvP players who wants to be competitive in MOP? Holy or Retribution?Talantyr1 Aug 29, 2012
Aug 29, 2012 Rate my Shockadin BG spec This is the spec I'm currently using as a Shockadin in Random BGs for fun and gear upgrades: Level 15, Long Arm of the Law - A successful Judgment increases your movement speed by 45% for 3 sec. Didn't like the long cooldown on Speed of Light (Sprint) and Pursuit of Justice didn't seem overly great since I figure to be dumping my Holy Power. You don't have to be facing your target to judge them, so you can tab target the closet hostile and judge for a quick speed boost. Level 30, Burden of Guilt - Your Judgment hits fill your target with doubt and remorse, reducing movement speed by 50% for 12 sec. Using this with Long Arm of the Law makes your judgement a great kiting and peeling tool. Great for slowing demos in SotA as well as FCs in WSG and TP. Repentance is less useful in a chaotic BG setting, where your CC will frequently be broken by damage. While a 30 second HOJ is nice, I just think the 30 yard hamstring has greater overall utility. Level 45, Sacred Shield - Protects the target with a shield of Holy Light for 30 sec. The shield absorbs up to (30 + 1.17 * holy spell power) damage every 6 sec. Can be active only on one target at a time. Love this talent. Absorbs damage on application and at intervals thereafter. The tooltip might not seem like much but this thing absorbs a ton of damage. Didn't care for Selfless Healer, seemed like a long build up for a heal that isn't that great unless used on others. Eternal Flame didn't seem that great either, it just seems to add a HOT to Word of Glory, in my experience a well placed shield will save your life more readily than a HOT will. Level 60, Clemency - You can use Hand of Freedom, Hand of Protection, Hand of Sacrifice and Hand of Salvation twice each before incurring their cooldowns. Great talent. With this Hand of Freedom has great uptime and you can toss around Hand of Protection much more liberally on yourself and others. Even having a couple Hand of Sacrifices available is nice if you're getting sheeped. Hand of Purity seems really weak. Unbreakable Spirit is a viable alternative to Clemency, but I just don't really like to be overly reliant on long CD abilities like Divine Shield and Lay on Hands. Level 75, Divine Purpose - Abilities that cost Holy Power have a 25% chance to cause the Divine Purpose effect. Divine Purpose - Your next Holy Power ability will consume no Holy Power and will cast as if 3 Holy Power were consumed. Lasts 8 sec. While Holy Avenger and Sanctified Wrath will provide you with some nice burst damage or healing, my personal preference/playstyle is for the consistent passive ability. Divine Purpose will give you frequent back to back 3 Holy Power Word of Glory heals, which can easily take you from 5% to full health. It also lets you put out some decent damage when used with Glyph of Harsh Words. Major Glyphs Glyph of Holy Shock - Decreases the healing of Holy Shock by 50% but increases its damage by 50%. Glyph of Harsh Words - Your Word of Glory can now also be used on enemy targets, causing Holy damage approximately equal to the amount it would have healed. Does not work with Eternal Flame. Glyph of Denounce - Your Holy Shocks have a 50% chance to reduce the cast time of your next Denounce by 1.0 sec. Holy Shock is still an effective heal even reduced by 50%. For damage my highest Holy Shock crits yesterday were 65k on a player and 82k on a demo with wings up, no zerker buff. Harsh Words needs no explanation. Glyph of Denounce is good, it brings my Denounce down to about 0.44 seconds so not much worry about getting spell locked. Denounce doesn't do huge damage but the crit prevention is nice, I especially like to use this against enemy healers. Another Glyph I'm considering is: Glyph of Word of Glory - Increases your damage by 3% per Holy Power spent after you cast Word of Glory or Eternal Flame. Lasts 6 sec. A 9% damage buff for 6 seconds after casting Word of Glory is decent, especially since I'm specced into Divine Purpose. I might switch out Glyph of Denounce in favor of this. Any critique/input is appreciated.Tirramissu9 Aug 29, 2012
Aug 29, 2012 Does Holy/Shockadin need hit rating? Holy Insight - Increases your chance to hit with Holy Shock, Judgment, and Denounce by 15%. The way Holy was prior to 5.04 we got 8% hit chance with all spells. Now we get 15% hit chance but only for the 3 spells listed above. I'm thinking about at least putting 20 Int/20 Hit or 40 Hit gems in the blue slots figuring it will help: Crusader Strike (Holy Power generator) Hammer of Justice Word of Glory/Harsh Words (not sure if Holy Insight helps this or not) Rebuke Hammer of Wrath Turn Evil Melee swings Any input on this would be appreciated.Tirramissu4 Aug 29, 2012
Aug 29, 2012 Shockadins <3 I love playing a Shockadin! So fun and so good :) Thoughts on Shockadins?Apec7 Aug 29, 2012
Aug 29, 2012 Holy Shock Proc??? Im getting the holy shock proc which should allow me to cast holy shock once more without CD. but it keeps going on CD with proc still up... WTF?Uwish3 Aug 29, 2012
Aug 29, 2012 [Prot] 5.0.4 Guide Saw this on EJ and thought I should share it here since I haven't seen any guides. All credit goes to the people who put this together. Significant changes from 4.3 to 5.0.4 - It’s a whole new world, but there are a few key points: - Talent tree, cooldowns, coefficients, etc completely revamped. - You can now store up to 5 HoPo at a time, though you can only use 3 at once - Active mitigation system with hit/exp capping or not becoming a big gearing question. I'm saying "no". - No more auras - Only 1 taunt and its single target - Remember that the level cap is remaining at 85 for a few more weeks and there won’t be any new content quite yet (so no new bosses, set bonuses or the like yet) Disclaimer The purpose of the Field Manual to assist you in being a better Paladin tank. The goal is to provide the best and most accurate information possible so you can make the best decisions possible. In some cases theory crafting will suggest only one solution, in other cases you will have a variety of solutions, either way it is your choice to use information from this post. If you feel you have something to contribute or correct please feel free to send me a PM or post in this thread. ________________________________________ Abbreviations Abr Definition AD Ardent Defender AP Attack Power AS Avenger Shield BiS Best in Slot BoK Blessing of Kings BoM Blessing of Might Con Consecration CS Crusader Strike CTC Combat Table Coverage DP Divine Protection DS Divine Shield GAK Guardian of Ancient Kings GC Grand Crusader GCD Global Cooldown HotR Hammer of the Righteous HoPo Holy Power HoW Hammer of Wrath HW Holy Wrath J Judgement JotW Judgements of the Wise LoH Lay on Hands SoI Seal of Insight SoT Seal of Truth ShoR Shield of the Righteous SS Sacred Shield SP Spell Power TbtL Touched by the Light WoG Word of Glory ________________________________________ Active Mitigation Prot paladin rotation and survivability now revolve around what’s called “Active Mitigation”. The idea is that correctly and efficiently executing your rotation will not only increase your damage done, but also will improve your survivability. The idea revolves around the generation and use of HoPo. Some abilities generate HoPo: CS, J and AS when the Grand Crusader proc is up. The more you use these abilities, the more HoPo you get. Some abilities are “finishers” and use HoPo: ShoR and WoG. Both of these abilities require HoPo to use, are instant cast and off-GCD, and help keep you alive. We no longer have Inquisition. Our level 75 talents allow generation of HoPo more rapidly. Unlike in Cata, generating more HoPo is primarily a survival boost rather than a threat/dps boost since it will allow you to ShoR and WoG more often. The HoPo abilities both have strong survival abilities built into them and the more you use them, the more likely you are to survive. In addition, they synergize together and are each more or less useful in different situations. Managing your pool of HoPo and using these abilities together optimally will provide a large survival boost over using them poorly. ShoR ShoR costs 3 HoPo to use and is like a guaranteed shield block. It reduces incoming physical damage for a short time (30% for 3 seconds, but the damage reduction increases as you stack Mastery). The more you use it, the less damage you take, but it depends. If you know a big hit is coming, you’ll want to wait before using ShoR. Additionally, each ShoR cast (its ok if it misses) gives you a stack of Bastion of Light which increases the healing done by your next WoG by 10% (stacking up to 5 times). WoG WoG is still a heal, but its overheal won’t turn into a shield anymore. Its flexible and can be used with as little as 1 HoPo but scales up with 3 HoPo. Obviously the more Bastion stacks you have, the more attractive WoG looks but it will depend on the situation. ShoR will generally be better, but it does nothing against magic damage and a 3 HoPo, 5-Bastion stack WoG can do a LOT of healing. Figuring out when to use each will be crucial. ___________________________________Omang17 Aug 29, 2012
Aug 29, 2012 Retribution: Damage to support? First off these are just ideas on how retribution paladins could be changed to fit more of a support role. We currently don't have a strong damage role and our healing role is far too much they buffed our healing and survivability but we just dont do any damage. "We're damage dealers, with support thrown in; not support, with some damage thrown in." Blizzard doesn't really have a class or spec that is true support. But patch 5.0.4 Ret dps was nerfed a bit and our role looks to have changed slightly more towards a dps/healer, like the previous talent system was trying to do with selfless healer it just was never strong enough to make any dps want to take it. Now with the glyph changes Blizzard can almost force us into taking support glyphs as our current glyphs for retribution doesn't support a damage role or a true support role. Now I feel a support role for ret fits the playstyle but I dont feel like Blizzard really supports that playstyle. I feel Blizzard needs to add glyphs or change glyphs to make ret more of a support spec. To start ret is a damage spec they need to give us glyphs to make the support role more desireable for those playing it so that instead of ONLY focusing on damage we are actually focused on doing damage with healing on the side. For example the glyph "Glyph of Word of Glory" only lasts 6 seconds for 9% dmg when healing anyone with word of glory, lets change it back to what the talent with a slight buff so that after healing someone else with Word of Glory we gain 9% dmg for like 18 seconds, so that it says "Increases your dmg by 3% for 6 seconds for every point of holy power used when you heal someone else with Word of Glory" or something to that effect. Another idea to make ret more support is lets change the "Glyph of the Battle Healer" so that it works with Seal of Truth instead of Seal of Insight that way we are still in the dps seal and doing the healing. This would need a nerf though I would say it should only be 10% of the damage dealt and even that may be too high. One last thought of buffing our support role is blizzard gave prot paladins no GCD on Word of Glory lets swap it. Give ret pallies no GCD on Word of Glory and give it to prot instead. Currently I dont feel like we fit the support role for we sacrifice too much dps for not enough healing to really make a difference in a fight (PvE mainly we seem to be almost unkillable in PvP). Trying to balance ret so that they are desirable in raids and still not too strong in PvP is difficult because most guilds want a pure dps or a pure healer over a hybrid like ret and if you make the hybrid too strong then PvP will be overpowered and will just require another nerf. PvP is gonna probably get nerfed for ret anyway but maybe to balance ret PvP the scaling of resilience could be nerfed a little bit for ret so that we don't become this unkillable damage machine. Another thought could be that Word of Glory when used self casted only does 75% of the full healing effect (not sure how that one would pan out). As I said previously pvp is not going to be easy to balance.Baocaleb0 Aug 29, 2012
Aug 29, 2012 paladins without auras are not paladins sighTalless25 Aug 29, 2012
Aug 29, 2012 I feel destroyed I have been a ret pally since early 2005, played through 3 expansions and watched our class lose abilities and go through numerous revamps, but now i cant even recognize the class I once started playing. I can deal with change but I just feel like this is not the game I started playing long ago. Part of the appeal of ret pallys were the ability to have a lot of leeway and act as a support player in various situations,but now that is just a memory. No more ret aura, consecration, no more holy wrath, no more ability to taunt mobs off of clothies in dungeons. Idk if i am alone here, but i feel cheated and like my class that I love has been ripped apart and I am being forced into roles I have no intention of playing. I feel like blizzard just spit in my face and i am not sure if I can handle it again. Sorry for the !@#$%ing but this is the first time in 6 years that a revamp has made me so upset. Is anyone else with me here ?Eurous32 Aug 29, 2012
Aug 29, 2012 Holy Paladin PvP Stat priorities? I read some where that Spirit>Int>crit>haste>mastery, just wanted to confirm this before jumping into it. Unless that isn't the priority set up, or you have your own opinion please explain why as well. Thank you.Seenage3 Aug 29, 2012
Aug 29, 2012 Consecration and Holy Wrath I feel rather cheated that I now have literally no AoE capabilities. How am I supposed to kill hunter snakes, or stun undead/demon pets? I'm honestly not even all that hurt about the stun as I am about losing what little utility we had in the form of Consecration! I'm still adjusting to the aura changes and believe that it's too early to really make any decisions based on the matter, even though I will forever loathe the removal of Crusader Aura. TL;DR - GIVE US SOME DAMNED AOE!Supermana3 Aug 29, 2012
Aug 29, 2012 just some paladin's take on ret Short version: Ret feels about the same. --- The first four talent choices are mostly situational/pvp oriented/off-healing and aren't anything too exciting for traditional pve for the most part. I did 5min dps runs at the 85 dummy with each of the three lvl 75 dps abilities and found overall dps to be very similiar among all three. Divine Purpose: 30,455 Time on Target 5:12 Sanc. Wrath: 30,386 Time on Target 5:11 Holy Avenger: 29,304 Time on Target 5:14 I think avenger dropped off a little because unlike last expansion, avenger cannot always be stacked with wings like zealotry could. This is because wings has 3min cooldown as opposed to avenger's 2min. The first cooldown stacking avenger/wrath/goak hits numbers comparable to what we during doing last week with zeal/wing/goak. But subsequent cooldowns will not be stacked and as such will not achieve dps spikes like we were seeing. Sanc wrath is kind of fun because wings are up longer and you can churn out lots of HoW with the cd reduction (16x in 5min vs 6 and 7 for the other two talents) what i found is that HoW dps% went up by about 4%, and TV contribution dropped by an identical amount. Divine Purpose feels pretty similar as it did in cata. I like it because it smooths out our rotation a bit and found myself with fewer gaps than i did with the other two talents. Overall sustained dps seems to be a hair higher than the other two, mostly because it trades more steady long-term dps for the higher dps peaks you will see with the other two talents. I would (at this early stage, pre-90) suggest Divine purpose be your goto talent for more patchwork high tot fights. Avenger for fights with short burst phases (ideally 3min apart to allow for wings/avenger stacking). And Sanct wrath for fights with slightly longer burn phases (maybe black phase on zon'ozz). Overall, my dps is close to what I was doing pre-patch +/- a few hundred dps. rets getting aura mastery is a nice bonus, as well as getting an aoe "rotation". But I miss holy wrath and consecration as fillers (maybe the 90 talents will help with the holes?) Self and off healing has increased, which will have strong pvp advantages i imagine, but little impact in most pve situations. Overall, I'm happy with ret and am anxious to get to 90 so I can get the full feel of the class.Decore5 Aug 29, 2012
Aug 29, 2012 Hammer of the Righteous Yesterday when i went to farm some mounts I realized that the HotR was doing a lot less dps, at least with the AOE component. Some groups of mobs that I usually kill in a few aoes, were alive after 5-6 hits. So basically, it was nerfed a lot, right?Imyourtank2 Aug 29, 2012