Jan 23, 2012 Quick question I did a search, couldn't find my answer. Does HotR still spread weapon enchant effects? Thanks :DAndrèa0 Jan 23, 2012
Jan 23, 2012 Prot profession help Hi i have 525 enchanting but i cant decide between blacksmithing( for the sockets) or jc'ing ( for the gems ) i want one that i can use on both spec's (prot and ret) Ty in advanceShinho3 Jan 23, 2012
Jan 23, 2012 Illuminated Healing Blizzard I'd really appreciate it if you guys give it a visual effect like Val'anyr. It would help keep track if a paladins mastery shield is on/off.Vakharia3 Jan 23, 2012
Jan 23, 2012 First Valor Purchase for Prot Pally Basically what the title says, I only dinged 85 like 2 days ago and already I can queue for HoTs. I capped valor 1000/1000 and want to know which item I should buy first with valor. Preferably something under 2000 VP as I dont like waiting a whole nother week :D. Thanks in advance! OberjarlOberjarl12 Jan 23, 2012
Jan 23, 2012 Ret PVP; inquiring about CD usage... Bad ret here... Was wondering if I could ask you guys a few questions about CDs. For starters, when are some of your most opportune moments to use Divine Shield (I know it's dependent on the situation, but maybe list a couple scenarios?), should I Zealot before/after wings, or even about my spec? I tried to use a spec that compliments my route with mastery. Also, how do you guys deal with being opened on by burst-y comps? Generally, any tips on how to improve in arena (2s and triple deeps 3s) beyond that of Vanguards' guide. In response to my questions, I try to find a spot with my DS where I'm stopping their momentum, but early enough to where I'm not almost dead by the time it comes off. Offensively, I try to open with a HoJ on kill target and get a Zealot/Inquisition rolling to build up momentum and save my wings for the kill. I tried to specialize my comp to work with triple deeps, thus I've made some changes. My biggest gripe is dealing with Mage/Rogue/Burst openers... I try to freedom -> trinket -> Divine Prot. then heal, but against some comps I feel like I HAVE to bubble or I'll die/let them gain a lot of momentum. Thanks for reading :)Comeatmebrah3 Jan 23, 2012
Jan 23, 2012 2piece pally tank set Anyone else find that part of the set extremely useless? just got it for my offspec, tried it on deathwing and i got a whole 2k shield... seriously? doesnt the warrior piece's revenge give like 20k shields or somethingHolyrunner6 Jan 23, 2012
Jan 23, 2012 So, just got gurthalak, voice of deeps Is this still BiS even though they nerfed it for pallies? Wished I could of seen what it was like before they took the censure thing from it =/.Galook9 Jan 23, 2012
Jan 23, 2012 GoTK, Holy Paladin Quick question, does the splash effect from GoTK work with Lay on Hands?Braveheárth2 Jan 23, 2012
Jan 23, 2012 reforgenator acting oddly? In my last two attempts to reforge with Reforgenator, its recommendations have left me with 29 expertise without Seal of Truth active; i.e., 39 expertise with it active. My understanding, double checked with EJ this evening, is that the expertise cap for ret pally is 16 without Seal of Truth active (a point count of 391 for a mace equipped human); i.e., 26 with it active. So both times I've revised my reforging (at some expense) to get as close to these targets as possible. However, I didn't recheck the entire Ret Concordance forum on EJ, and now I'm wondering if perhaps I missed something, and Reforgenator is in fact correct. Has anything changed with regard to expertise cap (391 for a mace equipped human) or hit cap (961) for ret pallies? If nothing has changed with regard to the cap, is this a known bug in Reforgenator, or perhaps just some kind of anomaly from my own individual use of it? Any help much appreciated! Edited for poor grammar.Unoki5 Jan 23, 2012
Jan 22, 2012 Seal of Insight + Judgement Does Judgement count as a melee attack that would trigger the chance for mana gain from Seal of Insight? Or does it mean just straight up melee auto-attacking only?Spices1 Jan 22, 2012
Jan 22, 2012 Healing Heroic 5mans I recently turned 85, and decided to launch into healing H5mans after getting my first piece of T12 gear. Although my first experience wasn't that bad, my subsequent runs have always been very stressful. A couple questions for all y'all knowledgeable people out there: 1. Is my spec optimal for H5mans? 2. Should I start using food? 2a. If so, should I buy it or just level up cooking? 2b. What food should I use? 3. How's my armor? Should I get 3 of the T12 armour? I just started running Heroics with my guildies, and it's much better running with a group of people who know what they're doing. Still, I always feel bad whenever they die because of my poor heals. Thanks for the advice!Chuuhwa1 Jan 22, 2012
Jan 22, 2012 ret pally needs some advice. I started playing again and gearing my pally up. I am running heroics and only pulling 12k dps. For my gear level is this normal? If not would you mind helping me out with gear/chants/gem tips. Iam working on gettings those blues turned into purples. I use FCFS to help with my rotation which is (Inq > CS > TV > Exo > HoW > J > HW > Cons). Also is it worth it to change to alchy to another prof/ Thanks for any help. Urlair1 Jan 22, 2012
Jan 22, 2012 Prot pally crit + kill pvp vid I agree it is not a work of art in editing and video skills. This is the first video I seriously put any effort into. Regardless, it is a decent video overall showing some average yet nice prot pally pvp crits and killing blows. Criticism is expected, but thanks for watching. Jan 22, 2012
Jan 22, 2012 Prot Paladin Problem with H Yorsahj? Anyone having problem? (10man HC btw) I tried my best to use Glyphed DP, Mirror, Guardian, and still ended up having trouble surviving some phases. I tried two tank, it is ok, but the dps isnt going to be ok into for enrage. Any prot paladin successfully tanked him? If so, what kind of strategy/tip u use? what kind of trinket? Ooze color? Right now my guild just downed him using 1 DK tank and they said it's ton easier... now unless i can one tank it, i dont think i will have spot there =-=''' Damn blizzard, why they make DK tank neccesary and make prot paladin obsolete -=-'''Tajz6 Jan 22, 2012
Jan 22, 2012 Is 2-piece Tier Bonus Worth It Here? Just got the 384 tier helmet for Ret Pally. If I equip it, I'll finally have the 2-piece tier bonus (my guild is still only 3/8 DS and my luck in lfr and normal rolls has been awful). However, I've already got Visage of Petrification (i.e., 397 VP helm) equipped. Is it worth it to swap the 397 helm temporarily for the 384 helm in order to get the 2-piece tier bonus? It's a major strength loss, of course; but I love the idea of the extra HP... Obviously once I get another tier piece, I'd swap back, so it would only be a temporary fix. I'm gonna go hit a dummy with each of them and see how it looks; but any input much appreciated from people who know the numbers better than I do. Thanks!Unoki6 Jan 22, 2012
Jan 22, 2012 holy: replace t13 head with the VP helm? if i use t13 head, i'll get the 4th set bonus. but is it really worth it? im only asking because im also trying to build my Ret gear (OS spec) --- so i can convert the t13 head for retInaudax3 Jan 22, 2012
Jan 22, 2012 LinkedIn - reads like a pally to me. Has this occurred to anyone else? Whenever I see a link to Linkedin, I can't help but picture a pally. (If you don't know about Linkedin, just google anyone's name and it's bound to be on the first page)Windbreeze1 Jan 22, 2012
Jan 22, 2012 Finally back to paladin Basically a fresh 85, I just need your help in making a decision in what to do choose.. How is Pali tanking going for DS? also for PvP, how is ret going? edit: No idea how i posted twice, which was not intended. sorry.Istanbüll3 Jan 22, 2012
Jan 22, 2012 Suggestion: Ret "Holy Charge" Hello guys, I'm new to the forums so please don't be to hard on me. As far as my research goes, there has been no topics with this especific seggestion. Now a days I found myself prot Pallying, when I used to go hardcore Ret all the away. Why have I changed my main spec? Basicaly because I don't like the "feeling" of playing a ret now a days. For some reason unleashing ret skills doesn't fulfill my need as it used to. I used to love bursting judgement, CS and DS. Today, we don't even have the awesome DS as far as PVP is concerned. (I know we do "have", it just su** for it =D). It went from an Ultimate to what it is now. Not really good for the feelings of those playing ret for a long time, changing such a meaningful skill like that. Anyway, I have 2 main suggestion to make (or 3, depending on how we count o/.) 1st - I honestly feel like DS should go back to the Ret PVP spec as it used to be. Instead of using CS, DS should be again some sort of viable pick. My idea would be remove CS from the Ret "rotation" and put back DS as a main PVP skill (pvp or at least a hight single target dmg). 2nd - The more interesting one (I think). This one would go to MoP. Ret paladin should have a new skill, one that would "fix" (or at least help) the "gap closing" problem of rets in pvp. It would basicaly be a mix of the Warrior's Charge with the Mage's Blink. The Paladin would charge forward filled with holy light breaking from movement imparing effects. It would have a short CD and would consume a charge of Holy Power. (You would not go directly to your target nor will you actually blink.) The CD and distance of course would have to be tested, but I think that the idea stands... 3rd (or not) - Holy Power should be used for utility skills, instead of damaging ones. This one is kinda controversial, but I just don't like depending on Holy Power to do my burst damage. If you are fighting a steady boss, then well, it is pretty easy to get Holy Power, but if you are fighting a squishy mage, then well, we have a problem. And that's the part that I don't like. It gives me some kind of insicurity PVP wise, wich I don't like at all. I sometimes feel like I cannot trust my all mighty Paladin. (I know this one it's just me complaining about my own problems, but I wanted to see if anyone share the same burden as myself or not... If you don't agree with it, please don't bash me for it =D.) That's it I think guys. Please take the second suggestion as the main one... I know that most would say for me, just use the damn CS.... But I really think that having that special feeling towards unleashing a skill is priceless. Amonret0 Jan 22, 2012
Jan 22, 2012 Ret PvP - stats and caps? Anyone in the Libram knows me and some random tanking discussions in the past, but I'm trying to PvP, and have gotten tired of Prot not being able to move. :) So what I'm trying to figure out is, what do I need to gear for? What's a good stat priority for RetvP? Can someone point me to where I can find out about this Resil thing, how much hit/expertise I need, and do I need Spell Pen (not exactly sure what it is post Cata)? I've noticed sometimes my abilities seem to do nothing to some people (HoJ, for example), but not like they trinketed, it just...didn't effect them at all. Anyway, going to see what I can find on wowpedia, but thought I'd ask in here since some of that information is dated when I look it up (though I haven't looked up PvP stuff there for a while, so maybe they've got it up to date now...)Arthinas1 Jan 22, 2012
Jan 22, 2012 Retribution BiS Trinkets So EoU Heroic is supposed to be BiS no questions ask but I'm concerned with the 2nd BiS trinkets where does Creche and BLF fit in in both heroic and normal modes. Any light on this topic will help me out lots!!!!Zohm1 Jan 22, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 Ret pally haste vs crit thread This thread will be for all the ret pallies to discuss and share their thoughts and experience about reforging to crit, haste or a balance of both. It is my deepest wish for this thread to remain as helpful as possible since there are a lot of questions and debate about what secondary stat comes after mastery. That being said, I will start by sharing my experience and get the ball rolling. One day on a whim I've decided to reforge out of the crit i can into haste just to see what happens, and after about a week of raiding and dungeons I am quite please with the result. It seems that when reforging to haste my dps remains very stable after the dip of the initial burst phase, and that to my surprise that my dps would actually to start climbing back up after my 2nd or 3rd burst phase if only for a lil bit (toally unprecedented before this patch). I've also notice art of war procs more often due to faster melee attacks, and so far I am quite please with the result of reforging to haste. However, i do have questions of my own. It seems like crit and haste have a very intricate relationship which each other which i find at time confusing in terms of reforging. I start to feel that the more haste i have, the more crit is gona benefit me more and i can imagine it being the same the other way around. I want to know is there a certain cap of either haste or crit that one would reach before reforging to another, or do we simply keep them balanced kinda like prot pally tank with dodge and parry? What do you guys think?Innermadness20 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 Prot pally pvp gems For a prot pally that would be FC in any RBG, what would the best gems be?Malsonsus3 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 Mr. Robot and block capping Does anyone use Mr. Robot to hit block cap for their paladin? I've been trying to use it but when i gem and reforge as it suggests it seems that my character's actual stats are a little off. So either there is a problem with Mr. Robot or I'm interpreting block cap incorrectly. Currently, if I follow Mr. Robot, block+dodge+parry comes out around 98% fully raid buffed. Am I not supposed to be at 102.4? Help! I usually tank as a death knight :)Jweezette10 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 So yah madness and dps Im pulling 45-47k on madness all said and done and I feel like i should be so much higher. What the heck am i doing wrong.Nousayhi6 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 Looking for some Holy advice. A number of contributing factors led me to switch to a Holy Paladin, and having just leveled up and beginning the gearing process, I have a question regarding haste/spirit levels. I know that it's said to stack spirit "until you're comfortable", and then stack haste, but is there a certain point I should roughly be looking for? 3000 Spirit? 3500 Spirit? I've ready the sticky but again, it just says until your comfortable. I know it's going to come down to how you heal as well, so I guess I'm just asking what you all find as a comfortable level of spirit with or without trinkets. Aleksia1 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 Prot stat help Ok, so I have been trying to wrap my head around this whole CTC thing and I am a little lost. I keep being told to go mastery heavy and leave other parry and dodge alone. I am also told the hit and expertise caps are no longer required. My problem is, if I reforge to mastery from hit, I lose aggro wars with well geared DPS. If I keep the hit cap I take way more damage and healers complain. Looking at my gear and spec, is there anything I can do with what I already have to improve my tank-a-bility? I know I need gear upgrades, but I am mainly looking for guidance on where to go from here stat wise to help make me easier to heal and run with.Xerrxes3 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 Professions.. So I will be leveling and ultimately PvP'ing as a Prot paladin at 85. What spec/professions should I take up?Bratva11 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 INQUISITION POP WINGS OMG!!!!!! 8k exorcism crit. Reticence25 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 is holy broken or am i broken? somehow i doubt my whole 2 chain mail items i have instead of plate is the problem but its like i have a serious lack in the int. department, i was just healing a regular vortex pinnical and after a while im starting to realize SOMETHING is broken i should NOT have to spam FOL and go OOM in 8 casts just to keep the tank alive all the while the DPS are all sitting at 15% hp. someone explain if the inst is broken maybe the tank or if im just broken, anyother way SOMETHING needs to be fixed. and dont tell me to use that AOE HOT heal we have now because iv come to realize that it is useless as !@#$, i would LOVE to use divine light instead of FOL but its just not fast enough, and holy light is laughable and i can only really see it being used as a top off heal.Velfair21 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 Help with heals on Ultraxion So this is my first time healing in probably six months or so, and I thought I'd gotten myself warmed up with a few heroics and the raid finder under my belt, but last night my guild called upon me to heal Ultraxion and I got my face eaten. So two questions: 1: Am I geared enough to be able to handle that fight (10-man, two healers)? I realize that I'm missing enchants and my shoulders are outdated, but provided I remedy that, do you think I'd be able to handle it? 2: How do you go about healing a fight where that much damage is incoming? I always feel like I'm burning too much mana being forced to use my big, expensive heals rather than the efficient Holy Light and Holy Shock. Should I be that concerned about mana conservation or simply focus on trying to keep everyone alive? Thanks for any advice you can provide!Utopia4 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 Ret mana I cannot go a single boss fight without ooming and this is without using consecrationAxeliart14 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 Do we really still want gurth? So from what I understand, even post nerf, gurth is still the theoretical top DPS weapon, but I've been kind of second guessing using the sword for 2 reasons. 1. Checking recount after beating on a dummy for several trials (usually around 10 minutes) and some raid attempts, its only coming out to like 5-8% of my damage most of the time compared to it's pre nerf 10ish%. 2. I've been considering just how random it is. When it does proc, its fun to see all the damage it puts out, especially with multiple tentacles up, and on a patchwerk fight like ultraxion it doing high overall damage over the course of the fight is fine, but if it doesn't proc when you need burst, its practically wasted. For instance, when working on a fight like H hagara, or H spine, the only time your DPS really matters is for a small window of burst. If my tentacles don't proc for those periods, then they're effectively wasted, and having extra mastery/crit would have been a huge boost to my zealotry/AW burst. So what do you think? Is it really worth it continuing to use gurth? Especially considering the piece I'd replace it with would probably be a normal weapon since our guild isn't currently working on any of the bosses that drop 2h on H yet.Darthelmet16 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 The future of Rets is promising! Judgements generate holy power and increase damage dealt to affected target by 4%. Autoattacks proc for increased attack speed of next 3 attacks. HoW generates holy power. Divine Protection makes us more survivable against casters. Blinfing light is an aoe disorient. BoM gives 5 mastery (can be bad in arena w/ no abominations might, good in some bgs with another person giving +20 ap). And Awesomly powerful Tier 6 talents. Who else is liking the future of ret paladins? Doesn't make us OP (unless you're in holy avenger form...winning) but these buffs deffinetly don't hurt.Mukara19 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 (Ret) [2] T13 Question. (2): Your Judgement ability now also generates 1 Holy power. >Compared to crusader strike, The time the holy power actually rolls in is delayed from when i cast it / and or see the damage output. >Does the power roll in as soon as you: A) Cast B) Deal damage ( via judgement ) C) Or when the animation is finished. I doubt it is due to latency due to crusader strikes comparison.Nebø2 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 Blessings in groups Maybe a silly question, but how can I have blessing of might on myself, when everyone in the group wants blessing of kings? It says you can only have 1 blessing at a time, and a blessing will affect all party members.Marbarus4 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 Finally back to paladin Basically a fresh 85, I just need your help in making a decision in what to do choose.. How is Pali tanking going for DS? also for PvP, how is ret going? edit: Didnt mean to post twice.. Sorry.Istanbüll1 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 Tanking Trinkets in DS I've been looking to upgrade my trinkets but I have been having a hard time finding the information I am looking for in regards to current trinkets. Right now I am still using the Mirror of Broken Images coupled with the Stay of Execution. I recently acquired Resolve of Undying from the LFR (my actual DS drops have been very meh for me despite killing Deathwing for weeks now.) And I was looking to see how I may calculate that into my avoidance as well as what other tanks are looking at using for their secondary trinkets. Personally I find the trinket from VP to be -very- underwhelming because excluding Blackhorn and Zonozz, I don't feel as if having a truckload of dodge at the ready is valuable. The SoulShifter Vortex feels, at least to me, as if it is aimed more towards Bears or DK's as going over the block cap doesn't really give us paladins any sort of benefit. Indomitable Pride sounds good on paper but I have been reading a lot about getting poor use out of it due to a small amount of damage pushing us over edge and then putting the trinket on its internal cooldown. I see use for this trinket on the Madness fight itself for sure on impales but not a lot past that. Is the loss of the AMS from Mirror of Broken Images really worth it for what feels like a teir of very underwhelming trinkets for us paladins. I struggle most with magical damage, as we all do, so I like to be able to mitigate large amounts of it on command. I figure Resolve of the Undying is a good pair with this but again, I don't know how to calculate the dodge rating into my 102.4% cap without pushing myself too much over it. I appreciate any advice that can be sent my way as I am still a baby tank, only having been tanking since about the beginning of Firelands, perhaps some of you more knowledgeable tanks can give me some insight as to your feelings about this tier of trinketsAelean4 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 Ret Pallys and HoT Dungeons I run the HoTs on my main weekly for Valor and because I like them but I have never seen a Ret in one yet. Always a Prot or Holy pally. This is an alt but besides my main this is my favorite class/spec combo to play. I was wondering if Ret was viable in the new dungeons or was the nerfs from earlier in xpac a lil too much for the spec? I tried End Times but couldn't get past Shade of Sylvanas (RNG luck sucks for me). I realize that fight is hard on any melee class. Just curious if anyone else has the same problem or if I just suck that bad. AND yes, I know that I am missing enchants and tinkers on my gear and need to up grade some pieces. I'm working on that.Darksied9 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 stacking crit over mastery So ive recently decided to forge crit>mastery going from ; 7%crit to 10% 14 mastery to 11 also changed my apparatus to bone link and went 40s hoj to wog testing it now in random bgs and while on paper and mentally im telling myself this is the faceroll spec it sure does feel better overall. Just wondering how much dmg do you sacrifise on a TV swing with 3 whole points of mastery lost, doesnt seem too noticeble couldnt be more than thousands of dmg at best, so is mastery completly overated as a go to stat then ?Deeznuutz14 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 Best 2v2 and 3v3 comps for new Holy Pally? Hey guys, I've recently geared up my holy pally (full vicious + 378 wep) with the intention of it being my main pvp toon. I'd like to know what comps in 2v2 and 3v3 have the greatest potential with a holy pally. I've never arena'd as a pally before so I'm not expecting to lol my way to 2200, but I'd like to know what comps will make the arena learning process easiest. Also, if anyone has any guides/tips/advice/trolling they'd like to send my way, I'd appreciate it (minus the trolling).Evilhomer4 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 pally mana rotations what are some mana rotaions i should use when i go oomHealidian10 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 Conviction > Divinity? I have noticed in several threads that many "pvp specs" will leave out divinity but will have conviction. Am I missing something here? As far as I can tell, even though you can get a 9% heal/damage as opposed to a 6% healing buff (only after critting 3x), conviction is a dispellable proc based off crits as opposed to divinity, which is always on and undispellable. Additionally, divinity has the bonus to any heals you recieve, whereas conviction doesn't give any benefit from heals from other players. Of course, you could have both anyway, but I see many paladins with only 2/2 Eternal Glory in the Protection Tree for pvp specs, and for 3/3 crusade and 2/2 improved judgements in retribution. Its not a required talent to get 31 points in holy either. Or are holy paladins just using it as a fluff buff to get dispelled against their other buffs, since 6% or 9% by itself isn't necessarily going to save anyone anyway?Ebarmarley4 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 Holy Paladin Main Hand Weapon Enchant Hey there paladins Long story short, I did some arena when horde got paladins first in burning crusade and then i stopped, just started again this week for fun and got the pvp gear, what is a good pvp enchant for a holy paladin who is not too serious about arenas I hope you understand what I mean, i know there are a ton of new enchants and kind of confusing, if you know one or have one in mind let me know please. Thanks.Draxxlane3 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 21, 2012 RET CLC questions? Ive been using this addon for a couple days now and I now have my 2pc t13 and was wondering if I need to change something in the addon for the new priority rotation?, since it changes a little bit with the 2pc t13? Or if it automatically can detect the change in set bonuses that would be great but I dont think it is, also it seems to have HoW way to high up on the priority list since it got nerfed soo much. thanks in advancedØptimus6 Jan 21, 2012
Jan 20, 2012 prot pally seeking advice hey all. i was hoping someone could check out my armory and let me know if im doing anything wrong gear/spec/gem/reforge-wise i know i need to update the majority of my gear, but i want to be sure im doing the best i can with what i have currently. Looloo2 Jan 20, 2012
Jan 20, 2012 Am i geared? Enough for raid finder dragon soul. My item lvl says i can get in it but im not 100% sure. and i dont wana cause whipes over stupid reasons. then again i probly will over not knowthing the fights anyways. but thats how we learn lolVarindran4 Jan 20, 2012
Jan 20, 2012 Holy PvP Trinket Recently started playing and gearing my Holy Paladin again, and I just have the trinkets left; So my question is What is the current BiS trinkets for Holy Paladins in PvP~? PvE (non heroic) included as well.Streamline1 Jan 20, 2012
Jan 20, 2012 Paladin Talent examples Hi, I started another post but it was a bust. All I need is some talent suggestions for Holy, Protect and Ret builds. Can anyone supply those examples? ChastainChastain6 Jan 20, 2012
Jan 20, 2012 Holy Radiance question I don't fully understand Holy Radiance. I should spam HR on different people in the same stacking position in order to maximize heals? Spamming HR on the same target = less heal output? How long should I wait to cast the next HR spell? Less than 1 second? Or after 1 second, or wait till the HR ticks are gone?Inaudax4 Jan 20, 2012