Dec 16, 2011 My apologetic to the post 4.3 nerfed Rets I really cannot believe how you can function with such little damage now! Putting you at blood DK level damage (with Vengeance!) was really, really unnecessary and I sincerely hope Blizzard is really, really sorry for it. It is truly unjust to expect you to be able to cope with a mere 34k Templar's Verdict as a melee class against a character with 4k resilence. Especially against those pesky ranged classes where you can only use your Exorcism for a paltry 25k, given that it crits. Removing your hammer's crit was completely unnecessary, because adding a guaranteed 30k crit into that mix while you roll a 1-10k censure DoT really brings your class to balance. Plus that weakling "Guardian"? He's more of a pretty conversation piece on a shelf, like a Troll doll. I personally cannot comprehend why such a small amount of damage would need to be leveled out during a 6-second stun. It's not even like the Ret Paladin has any other function! No 100k off-hand heals to an injured team member. No magical spell to free them from their bonds... or a second spell to do that exact same thing! So to all you Ret paladins, who I'm sure have disappeared just like you pledged to do if the nerfs went through, I feel for you, bros. But I ask of you, my fellow Paladins, to stay vigiliant, there is light in the future! tl;dr Noob goes on a rant, leaves before the 0/10 posts.Strangebytes10 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 16, 2011 how hard to get Pally T2 now? Can ret pally solo it, or need another healz? Thanks, CnCn8 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 16, 2011 Removal of Judgement Auto-target I just saw that Judgement Auto targeting is going to be removed. Is anyone aware as to why this change is taking place? ... It was always quite nice as a healer to just be able to press judge and on a fairly reliable basis actually judge something.Lolliki28 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 16, 2011 Pants for Recolored Purple Judgement Set The past 3 days I have been getting the purple Pali set. Not being the best fan of the Dress type legs I decided to give the AH a try, and I came upon this: "Bogslayer Legplates". Excuse me if I don't have the link, but check out my Pali to take a look. They may not match the purple color exsactly, but they do have the stripes like the dress and do match the grey color of the shoulder. I am verry pleased with them. :)Aryyn13 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 16, 2011 Really enjoying ret this patch... Hi all, I'd like to hear some feedback from other rets on this, but so far ret has been a blast to play this patch. The nerf to hammer of wrath crit isn't proving to be a problem and the new sustained damage is awesome, I feel like I can always do good damage not just every two minutes.Kolori4 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 16, 2011 Im sucking at healing after coming back. Hey im having a problem in heroics, just came back too heal and im having a major problem.... my Mana runs out faster and tanks dying to quick.. i used to blow through heroics like it was nothing but i don't know my rotation or what to cast anymore... Can somebody tell me what spells do i have use i really want to heal again.Arthinas2 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 16, 2011 HP usage as Holy for PvE? Hi guys, my main is my Druid Dimetre but I'm posting on my pally alt to ask a question. I'm currently thinking of changing one of my specs to Holy but I've never been able to get down Holy Power usage. On my old Paladin alt (wanted to reroll so I deleted) I healed through heroics a lot but I never got down how to use HP. Note that my questions are mostly for 5-man healing. I know how to generate it just fine: HS group members, and DL/FoL the beacon target, but I always find myself struggling with how to spend my HP. I heard somewhere once that generating 1 HP, using LoD, and repeating this was the best but I'm pretty sure that's not true. Naturally I just think generating to 3 first is most logical and then spending it before HS comes off cooldown is the right way to go, but this might not be right. What if I don't need all that healing at that time? Furthermore, should I even use WoG on the tank (just like you never use HL on the tank due to 100% transferance) and just save it for group members? Or should I just spend my HP for what healing people need at any given moment? In short it would be really helpful for me if any Holy Paladins could tell me in general how they spend their HP in 5-man heroics. Thanks.Sigvard2 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 16, 2011 Stacking Mastery Feels so wrong, but it heals so right... I think I'm in love. /swoonÐaedalus2 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 16, 2011 hpally 4 peice question Headguard of Radiant Glory my guild said something to me this past week about the pally 4 peice is now 5% holy radiance and not really 20%, but they tool-tip is still 20%. and i can't find anywhere where it says that it has been reduced. so whats up?Helablakcow1 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 16, 2011 Stat priority I'm trying to build a set for tanking Ultraxion and working with the second team to get Ultraxion down. The 26K required from DPS is a hurdle. I can do 26K in my Ret set and 16K in my tank set. I'm looking to tank but help the dps by pushing 20K or better myself while being the second tank. Cap Hit / Expertise. (a given) Haste: Does it reduce the global cooldown of a prot pally? Is that of any value since there can be dead spots in our rotaion anyway? My Conclusion: little/no value. Critical Strike Rating: Shied of the righteous crits mostly already. Crusader strike gets %15 bonus to crit also so is already at 25% crit rate. Mastery: Also low value since I won't be getting Melee hit very often at all. The other tank basically solo tanks with me only taking the odd Hour of Twilight and the occasional random single hit while he's away for a second. Strength and Stamina are similar value for DPS but Stam helps me live so I take that in Trinkets. So my question is this: Once Hit and Expertise are capped, none of the other 3 secondary stats have any real value. What's the best of the worst?Capital8 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 16, 2011 Curiosity of the Prot Pallies I heard about paladins and they were one of the classes I have yet to try out. I'm a sucker for healing and melee and pallies seem to fit. Why not finally give one a chance? I have some friends who play prot pallies and they say it's a breeze. Some tell me the same and others 'dissuade' me by saying: "If you like to faceroll, go for it." Honestly, I'm for the challenge, fun and games. I'm not a huge fan of facerolling even if it means looking up said pictures after dropping and use couple multiple-mob spells. I'm not trying to assume it's all what a paladin can do, but some insight on knowing how they are in terms of "fun" in your opinions of course will be appreciated. Lazypoet9 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 16, 2011 Numbers for non-crits not being displayed? I thought I'd bring this up here to see if any other paladins notice this, before I submit a bug report, in case it's just me. You know the numbers that fly around your screen, showing you the damage you're doing? What I seem to be noticing is that, when I attack with Crusader Strike or certain other melee attacks, I'm not seeing any damage number at all, unless the hit is a crit. I'm talking specifically about the damage caused by the actual impact of my weapon on the target. I see all the "secondary" damage numbers, the various small DoTs and what-have-you that come from talents and the effects of buffs and such. But I attack with Crusader Strike or Templar's Verdict, my sword hits with a non-crit, and there doesn't seem to be any number displayed for that hit. Meanwhile, if I get a crit, I see the big, yellow, double-sized number. Now, I'm extremely casual and I play almost entirely solo, so I've never gotten into theorycrafting or studying how all the damage formulas work together. But I look at my character sheet and I see that, fully-buffed, my base melee damage numbers look like this: Damage: 6714-7894 DPS: 2066.1 Attack Power: 12901 The way I interpret that (and I acknowledge that I may be completely wrong), ignoring Attack Power, the absolute minimum damage I should do on a melee hit is 6714. That's why I think my non-crit damage numbers aren't displaying - the other numbers floating around my screen are all smaller than 6714, suggesting that those numbers are all "secondary" damage. But then I score a critical hit, and there's a great big 40,000+ number on my screen. Has anybody else noticed this, or am I just misunderstanding how my damage numbers get displayed?Eilyssana7 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 16, 2011 Question about healing Ultraxion I'm looking for input on the last part of the fight, after the blue crystal drops. I 2 heal the fight with a Disc priest (she gets the red and the blue buffs and I get the green one). After the blue crystal drops and Ultraxion's aoe ticks every 3 or 2 secs, should I keep on using HR or switch to HL or DL? It just seems to me like the HR ticks aren't that useful, even tho I pop AW and DF it still feels like the heals from the tick don't really make a difference and it just drains my mana. I do know that once the Timeloop comes out it's nearly impossible to keep people alive, I'm just wondering if HL or DL would be a better choice over HR in the last part of the fight. Note, most of the time we're wiping it's due to either DPS not being high enough or people dying to Fading Light, it's definitely not a healer issue. I'm just wondering which spell would be more effective according to ya'lls experiences with the fight. Healsnseals9 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 16, 2011 Holy paladin haste vs. Mastery Okay, so I have been wondering this for a while, the start of 4.2 i believe. Is haste better then mastery or is it the other-way around. I have seen many forums on the topic but cant come out to a clear decision as you can see i'm a haste paladin (knowing me i have longed out in ret gear) but would it be best to go mastery over haste? Little more info i heal in a 10 man group we are starting heroic modes next week (just got our DW kill Woot woot). Any feedback would be nice thx Edit: Changed 4.3 to 4.2 (silly me)Tankiden4 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 16, 2011 I need to vent a little I was healing a heroic Throne of the Tides. I zone in and all the mobs are dead up to the room before Lady Naz'jar. We get there, we cc the adds, the tank pulls, he dcs, and we all die. Everybody runs back in and they get to the room before me. The tank pulls when I was not there, and everybody dies again and they managed to pull that mob that pats around the room. So I get there as everybody dies, and then I get attacked by that mob. The funny thing is, some people ran back in while I was running away and he didn't reset. So some of us died a couple more times. Then this enhancement shaman says that I am one of the top 5 worst healers and is calling me fail and all that jazz. We eventually kill all the mobs and pull Lady Naz'jar. During the fight, that same enhancement shaman stood in the geyser and got hit by the whirlpools during the second phase. That shaman eventually died, but we downed the boss. Then we pull Commander Ulthok. The tank didn't position him very well and he used his dark fissure right in the middle of the room. It took all my mana to heal everyone, but we downed him and one of the hunters died. I thought I did a pretty good job. So far so good, I think. We head to Erunak. We didn't wipe on the mobs to him, but that enhancement shaman died from one of those Faceless Watchers because he didn't move fast enough when they started doing their ground pound. We pull Erunak and the tank dcs again. We eventually kill Ghur'sha, but I had zero mana left. Then we head on over to Neptulon. The tank starts running down the hallway and I think he pulled either 3 or 4 of those Tainted Sentries and dies. I tried to keep everyone up. I used all the cooldowns that I had available, but it didn't really work. Then I get kicked. Maybe I did something worng, maybe I didn't. That enhancement shaman was really making me mad. I guarantee he was the one that initiated the vote to kick. He never set a single totem down and he was using a dagger for his off-hand weapon. I don't know too much about enhancement shamans, but I thought they wanted a slow weapon for their off-hand. He never got out of bad stuff on the ground. I just looked him up on the armory because I was that mad, and he didn't have a single piece of gear enchanted and had 2 prime glyphs and 2 minor glyphs. I know this isn't the worst story about a bad heroic, but it was the worst one that I have been in. I have never ran out of mana that fast before. Thanks for reading if you made it all the way here. Have a good one. Vynlan11 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 16, 2011 Tanking Advice Hello fellow paladins. I'm working on getting my tanking set in better shape and was looking for some help. Any gem, enchant, and stat advice in general would be awesome. Thanks! :)Scarletsong5 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 16, 2011 I just 1 healed the new Bh boss... So umm, this is my first time posting, but honestly i found this too funny not to tell. The new Baradin Hold boss, Alizabel, is so easy i was able to 1 heal it no problems, and im starting to question just how op my class is atm, any one have any thoughts on the matter? such as whether or not other classes can just as easily do it? thx. ( and i'm not just looking for posts like, holy radiance = this posts validity.)Blôôd8 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 16, 2011 yes or no ... spirit 2749 spirit ... too much? 4119 combat regen... Is it time to actually REFORGE out of spirit? Im scared.Syyan3 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 16, 2011 Pre Heroic DS BiS List? I need to get a BiS list for my raid leader and I can't seem to find any for pre-heroic DS BiS. I was thinking maybe askMrrrobot is good for pre heroic DS BiS, if not you guys have a website I can go to?Zetrov1 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 16, 2011 Ret vs. Rogue, Losing battle? Having a ton of troubles killing rogues. When they are stuck out of stealth it's not bad but when they open it is VERY difficult to win. I'm at 30% before I can do anything and if I pop CDs, they vanish and we start over. Need some advice.Moordon17 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 16, 2011 My Ret 4.3 PVP experience For me it has been a huge nerf. In RBGs and BGs I used to lead both teams in Killing Blows, now I'm middle of the pack. It's tough to kill anyone. I know people will say that J and TV hit harder, but a buff on small damage means little when you give up the chance to bring an opponent down with a huge burst. Then people talk about the Might buff, but other melee got the same percentage buff which ends up being a bigger buff for them because they have a higher base line damage on everyone of their attacks. We have been relegated to bystanders and will be even less wanted in groups (if that's even possible).Agincourt27 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 16, 2011 Mirror of broken images Is it worth it for ret pallys in arena? The reason i ask is because most ret pallys CRY about getting there wings dispelled Do yall think the 400 resistance and 321 mastery would be worth more then the resil and strength trinket? Also if u hav any other tips for my gear dont be afraid to say something Selroph2 Dec 16, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Need Help From Great HPally's Ok so I can't for the life of me see how I can 2 heal Madness So if Any Hpally's out there can stop by in this forum and help me improve upon myself that would be great.Impiety6 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Running out of mana I'm still learning to heal and have read the holy pve practical. My problem is I run out of mana healing heroic dungeons. It seems like the tank is just dropping way faster than he should, so I can't use HL, I'm having to use DL on the tank. Also, melee dps seem to be taking a lot of damage and I can't use HL on them either, I have to use DL. I ran regular dungeons to practice and get better, but haven't tried after that. In the regulars, I was only using about 25% of my mana by building up HP before a pull and casting HR on the tank before the pull. Any help is appreciated.Tramelay18 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Trinkets Okay, so I'm in a bit of a pickle here. I've got four trinkets: Heart of Unliving, DMC:T, heroic Jaws of Defeat, and heroic Eye of Blazing Power. Obviously the Heart of Unliving is going to be one that I'm going to be using. For the past few weeks, I've been using the Jaws, with it bound to all of my spells, so it just sort of passively reduces my mana cost. I'm trying to figure out whether the Eye would be better (as I've seen a top ranked Paladin using that combo), and what the exact ICD is on the proc, or if I should use the Heart paired with the DMC:T for practically a passive 1280 spirit bonus.Salesh1 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Ret vrs DK PVE Dps Hi Guys! Ive taken a small break from the game and am looking to come back and play my pally. Im curious with all the changes how we now compete with warriors and DKs in raid dps? Given similar gear of course. Thanks in advance!Ogak2 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Helm of power from well of eternity... does this thing really exist? Any one seen it? Ive run this instance so many times I havent even had a chance to roll on it, let alone win it.Syyan7 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Beacon Stacking Currently looking at having a 3rd Holy Paladin in 25 man raid roster, I was wondering if beacon stacks. I never noticed on previous single target bosses, or in any other situations since 3 paladins was a bad idea then.Vadil2 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Are Protadins generally squishy? I'm back from a bit of a hiatus, and decided to try out some tanking. The rotations (yeah, yeah, priority system) came back pretty quick, but i noticed i'm dropping fairly quickly. I tried check out these forums a bit, changed my gemming, and reforging a bit but it didn't help too much. Now i by no means have great gear, but it should be generally fine for reg heroics, and i cannot figure out what is wrong. Can any of you fine, informed gentlemen/gentlewomen take a look, and see if you notice anything? Thanks in advance dudes.Launtilus11 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Prot pally talent question Hello my fellow paladins I have a simple question that I can't figure out myself because I'm at work right now. In the protection talent tree for paladins when you put 2/2 points into guarded by the light it states that in addition "any" overhealing will create a protective shield for the amount of overhealing and lasts about 6sec. My questions are; Does this apply to all heals or just my word of glory? Also can it work with another pally's word of glory if I am tanking and I have one as a healer. Second and last question if this protective shield applies to any overheals is there a cap of how often I can benefit from this effect like only once every 10 seconds? Thanks for any information or help you can give me.Thúmper18 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Tank spec question. I have no interest at all going ret or holy, so i currently have two tank specs, which are the same but with different glyph loadouts. Is this a better option than just changing the glyphs around whenever i need to?Shaeos4 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Please Implement... Dungeon Dan! Please please please!Tailbiter8 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Tanking trinkets! Recommendations? So after spending a good 13 hours today doing HoT heroics and LFR, i have seen the veil trinket drop once and had it ninja'd by a DK. cry. Do you guys have any recommendations for an easily obtainable trinket? I dont have enough for scales of life, and im rocking the 264 skeleton key trinket + earthquake mainly because im the unluckiest person alive and have had every tank trinket ninjad that i've come across! Acandison2 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Pally? How do they work? Hello all! So I've been looking into leveling a melee considering I've almost exclusively played casters for the past 4 or 5 odd years. I like prot specs and I do PvP, I also do not care about being 2.5k viable in arena. I just want to have fun and screw around with a fun prot spec. Curently I have a prot pally and a prot warrior. The warrior is fun, but I enjoy being able to self heal on demand and not have a 3 min CD so I am leaning towards the pally. Also ret (off spec) seems pretty boss from doing 2s and 3s with my friend on his. What I am after is some PvP tips for mainly Prot, but also some Ret. And any feed back you can supply me with. And again, I know it isn't going to be the OMGBESTPVPSPECEVA, I just want to have fun with it.Hustling2 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 [Suggestion] Make Seals of Command baseline Well the part that makes SoR hit all targets within melee range. Currently, Protection AoE is almost entirely dependent on HotR. If it misses, gets dodged, or gets parried by it's primary target, then it doesn't hit anything and we're sitting there for 3 seconds waiting to try again. Against Spine and Madness adds, I currently have 21.07% chance for this to happen. To further exacerbate the problem, Paladins do not have an AoE type taunt like Challenging Shout/Roar. Righteous Defense is the closest analogue, but only taunts up to three targets and all three of them have to be targeting the exact same person. What's more, our "cleave" type ability (Avenger's Shield) has a 15 second cooldown as opposed to the 3 second cd of maul and cleave, and the no cd of Heart Strike (though it does cost a Blood Rune). Snap AoE threat is a big issue on trash, for 5 mans, and on Madness. Regenerative blood hitting healers and dps is not going to fly on heroic. Granted, I would prefer that HotR was changed to work like Swipe and Thunderclap and that Holy Wrath and Consecrate weren't so terrible, but my suggested change is easier to implement and will help fix the problem.Blizzhoof4 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Bone-link fetish vs Apparatus of Khaz'g (PVP) i just got Bone-Link Fetish and officially replaced Apparatus of Khaz'goroth. Anyone think the heroic apparatus is still something to shoot for, or has it bit the dust, this is pvp/arena oriented.Bleede5 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Spec choice So im thinking of switching a spec to holy A) should i switch B) which spec should i switch i have a set all set aside from the latest heroics, and it wont take me that long to get back into the swing of things after i get it all gemed up and enchanted. I currently cant decide to do it or not. My guild currenlty had no one who can heal besides me, and even though were not raiding we might start recruiting to try soon. And i feel that healing it just a general way to be more helpful since there seems to be a lack of them lately. i dont know if or which i would switch, i enjoy both tanking and dps. Tanking i feel is important because sometimes the other tank cant do it, but i usualy dps when their there and dps makes my dailies go by fast. this is one of those stupid late night propositions that i cant get out of my head. I just cant decide if i should or how i should. So i turn to you guysGilley1 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 PVE DS questions Ok for raiding NOT pvp, is it better to go more haste or go crit? I use . To reforge, but i am asking you all for suggestion on maxing my dps. currently at 26-32k sustained and burst at start to 52-57kMwch6 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Prot Trinkets Considering how easy it is to become block capped without using avoidance trinkets, what trinks are ya'll using? Mirror is still a champ for fights that have burst spell damage, and it seems stamina trinks are becoming popular as well.Tagem7 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Question.. I just got the Maw of the Dragonlord today, and was wondering if the proc works with our mastery or not.Linix1 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Weapon Question LFR Maw of the Dragonlord vs Normal Vagaries of Time DiscussElaeria1 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Paladin AoE? How good are paladins since the HR revamp? Its been a while since I've played, how viable are they as raid healers compared to the start of Cata?Maleny17 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Just starting ret pally pve so ive been doing nothing but pvp but now id like to start pveing but the problem is i only have pvp gear do i go start getting gear in normal dungeons or heroics? And how long do u think it would take to get enough gear to do the lfr? Sorry for the grammar and other stuff thanks in advance.Ärsôn9 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 [Holy] Mastery vs. Haste for tier 13 heroics Hi folks, So I know there are a lot of really bright people on these forums who push their theorycraft to the limit. My question is what are you guys seeing in HMs this tier as being the best secondary stat (other then spirit), mastery or haste? Looking into the first two HMs (my only experience thus far), I feel like mastery would be a far superior build due to having it always being used (no overheal), however when the tanks dip down / die, haste becomes ever crucial. After browsing around world of logs and seeing what some of the top paladins are doing (suprisingly mastery), does this limit them as a raid healer? In my guild, I step up as the tank healer and am usually the one blamed for the rare tank death. I do however what to push for the most HPS possible, and Illumanated Healing is now a force to be reckon with. So what are your guys' experience/thoughts (logs help :]). HammerHammerstorm9 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Gear Knowladge needed. Would greatly appreciate the gear break down of the shattered sun set. Thanks in advance Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 What made you pick a paladin Healer? What about the Holy tree made you pick a paladin over the mixed variety of healers we have in WoW?Reanimate27 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 insane please blizzard stop ruin the classes giving xtra spells to other and taking away from other class you took off ( seal of justices wich stund for 3 sec changing for slow to the palys now you take off holy radiance from instant to 3 sec cast give us a brake blizz i have 1 85 from each class and is unfair how u nerf some classes rogues can keep some stund for the full combat, so what i say kill me and i come back from my short brake till the stund is over? please stop if you blizz not add a good to the classes leave it aloneImbackk7 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Holy Light And Flash of Light... I am sure there is a post of this somewhere but I don't bother to look for things. Anyways what the h*ll happened to a quick inexpensive heal (Flash of Light pre-cataclysm) and a Slow more powerful heal (Holy Light pre-cataclysm), what I mean is wasn't the point of FoL being quick and low cost? where is the usefulness in a quick spell thats going to drain my mana in 10 or so casts and a Slow spell, though cost effective, weak so that my tank/Arena partner is dead before I can get a second cast off... I know it was a decision on the part of developers but isnt the point to make the players happy? Anyways I dont think Ill be playing pally as a healer till things are back the way they were. And though I'm one player im sure there are hundreds of others that feel the same about pally heals.Cielö5 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 BiS trinkets for rets? may sound stupid for asking but just wondering which trinkets are currently best as of 4.3. The new valor point trinket looks enticing but its just another button i have to push and keep up like my inquisition which i already don't enjoy, and it seems as if i don't keep it constantly up, then the 365 dwyers caber would still be better as it has the constant str buff. Thanks for any helpKickassordie7 Dec 15, 2011
Dec 15, 2011 Transmog Opinions. Okay just want to get a idea count of those willing to read and reply, what would you consider your favorite set to transmog to, of all the sets of paladin gear? Just curious. Mine is of course Judgement.Jakosta9 Dec 15, 2011