Oct 21, 2011 [4.3 Update] Art of War Currently ... Update ... Outcome for PVE & PVP Allows for the paladin to still be able to apply some pressure on targets that are kiting, since we lack a snare. As it stands currently we have way too many procs and damage tied to melee swings in an every mobile PVP environment. It would even help on PVE boss fights when melee have to move out of range of splash damage. PS. yes, there are many fixes that ret paladins need, and this suggestion doesn't diminish the priority in which other things should be addressed first. Thanks for the read, and remember to click on the St. Jude link.Evilhell61 Oct 21, 2011
Oct 21, 2011 Pally spell categorization is screwey I recently leveled a Pally, and while overall I find the class to be very well designed, one area I think should be cleaned up for the next xpac is the categorization (Holy, Prot, Ret) of Pally spells. As someone new to the class trying to find spells in the spell book is simply not intuitive half the time. My suggestion is essentially to put healing/helpful spells in the Holy tab, defensive spells in the Prot tab, and offensive spells in the Ret tab, as follows: Holy: * Hand spells - with the exception of the taunt (see below), all hands are player targeted and helpful... primarily feels like a healer function, especially since they are the most likely to have healer frames and be paying close attention to others. * Resistance Aura - primarily used by healers, synergizes big with Aura Mastery. Prot: * Hand of Reckoning - rename this, doesn't fit with other hand spells, which target players. Ret: * Holy Wrath - offensive * Consecration - offensive * Exorcism - offensive, primarily interesting to Ret * Turn Evil - offensive * Seal of Righteousness - offensive, primarily interesting to Ret * Seal of Justice - offensive, primarily interesting to Ret * Hammer of Justice - offensiveSprunt6 Oct 21, 2011
Oct 21, 2011 Leveling as holy? Is it possible? Currently have a 29 pally leveling as prot, but thinking of giving holy a shot. I'm wanting a healer, so I'd like to level as the spec I want to play... would it be completely stupid to lvl as holy?Gamn10 Oct 21, 2011
Oct 21, 2011 Low DPS Raid - Is it me or the Pally? Was playing BWD heroic magmaw last night. We wiped a bunch of times. Though no one was specifically named, the leader said the DPS was just too low. I think he was talking about me. Actually, I was ranking 4 or 5 damage so it had to be me. :-( I have a 373 wow score, 4966 Wow-heroes score. Started off doing 15k against Magmaw and eventually pushed as hard as I could and got it up to 21k on subsequent tries, but averaged around 18k per try. I just felt so far behind the other toons (386 priest, 381 mage, 380 DK) who were averaging 35k, 29k, 26k. Granted, this was my first attempt at heroic magmaw, but i was just really disappointed. Really felt like quitting Wow last night. What I'm wondering is: Is my low DPS just because I'm a retadin, or because I just genuinely suck? Is there any way to determine what my benchmark DPS should be for my gear level? Rawr says my DPS level is 22,681. (I am using CLCret for my rotation. Eating croc tail and using titanic flask. On Magmaw, I hit my CDs and pots when his head was down. ) Also: a weird thing: There were times in the fight where the toon would just stop swinging and stand there. That couldn't have been good. Help! (i told my wife last night I was quitting and she said "noooooooooooo! You need the distraction!")Benevor9 Oct 21, 2011
Oct 21, 2011 Rate the Paladin above you's name! I know theres a bunch, starting a fresh one so ppl don't have to search. Rate em up! Oh, and Lobster wins by default, don't even try. Go for 2nd.Maandrix87 Oct 21, 2011
Oct 21, 2011 Holy pally question about loot Grips of the raging Giant or Immolation Gloves?Hally9 Oct 21, 2011
Oct 21, 2011 Ret PvP snare, get it done sonnn. Simple things are simple Every other class is a snare type mechanic, usually built into their main offensive ability.... i don't enjoy chasing casters around while they're running at normal speed. It's ridiculous and you know it. D'you wanna fix it? PeaceFunbobby40 Oct 21, 2011
Oct 21, 2011 Heartsong vs PowerTorrent / Spir Flask vs Int Just a quick Holy PVE Question - I currently run the spirit flask, and heartsong on my weapon (I am always nervous about running out of mana). However, most fights I end with a decent chunk of extra mana. Coupled with that, the last few weeks, on ragnaros attempts, I have been under-whelmed with my throughput when tank healing. Should have enough mana if I start running int flasks and PowerTorrent? Should I only swap one for a balanced approach? Thanks!Yorki6 Oct 21, 2011
Oct 21, 2011 So... a potentially dumb question Let me preface this with a bit of a disclaimer: I don't raid (or plan to) at all, except when my guild says, "It's fun run time!" I'm not about min/maxing every little thing I do and I heal just fine in five mans with my boyfriend/pocket bear. That being said, is Aura Mastery really worth it? Or, is it really worth learning the timing and aura dancing for someone that just does five mans? I don't see it being useful except in perhaps one or two of the current five-man situations (specifically Nalorakk in ZA and a couple of the pulls in ZA that have Flame Casters) and I'm not really willing to learn (unless I have to) the timing of another skill and aura dance just to use my GCDs effectively. Most healadins whose armory pages I've poked have AM, but they also appear to be raiders.Isilya11 Oct 21, 2011
Oct 21, 2011 New Hpally asking "how to..." Due to Guild needs and pally love - i'm coming back to this toon. However, i've never healed. I started this past week. I've read the one sticky on holy paladin. I hit the BG's this past week (see achieve's) to level and learn under fire. How do I execute the mechanics properly? Specifically, do you all key bind and use healbot or a similar add on? How do you not keyboard turn if you are clicking the BG/Party icons then the heals? I'm lost on how to set up as a healer and perform good. In BG's now - in the time it takes to click target party member then click a heal - they could be dead. Can i run the brutal pvp gear until 80 and survive in the pvp setting to lvl? I would love some insight and assistance towards being successful. :) Thank you Jedilogan18 Oct 21, 2011
Oct 21, 2011 Retribution Paladins We are not broken, hell Ill do more damage than frost DKS in RBGs. Not some Pug group but a legit one. So yea ok the nerf were getting is a heavy loss but more damage increase = a plus to me :D. Anyway I love Ret so if you love Ret speak up I'm self proclaimed Ret on my realm so yea! lol im also drinking a 40ozRishira16 Oct 21, 2011
Oct 21, 2011 nerfing mages there is a post started in their forum. you guys think they are overpowered? there is a long thread currently active. maybe balance would be brought to the class.Frezzle10 Oct 21, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 i think there missing something ! Explanation of 4.3 Balance Changes, Part One Paladin We changed Seal of Insight to no longer return 15% base mana and then changed Judgment of the Pure to provide mana regeneration so that Holy paladins would not need to Judge every eight seconds. With these changes, they will want to Judge every 30 seconds, which seems more reasonable. Judging every eight seconds is hard to ask someone who is also targeting players a lot to heal them. We made several changes to Holy Radiance to make it a cast time spell. We felt like Holy paladins couldn’t go into a group healing mode because Holy Radiance had a long cooldown and in the absence of a cast time, didn’t compete with any other spell. With this change (and the Light of Dawn change below), paladins can opt for an AE healing “rotation” (insofar as healers can ever have a rotation) of using Holy Radiance -> Light of Dawn instead of Holy Light et al. -> Word of Glory. Several Holy talents changed to support the change to Holy Radiance, such as allowing it to benefit from Illuminated Healing, Clarity of Purpose, and Infusion of Light. It didn’t make sense for Speed of Light to be triggered by a cast-time spell, so we caused the Paragon of Virtue talent to lower the cooldown on Divine Protection, so that Holy wouldn’t lose quite so much functionality of Speed of Light. Speed of Light has definitely been nerfed compared to 4.2, but we feel it’s an acceptable change given the entire package. We reversed the glyph for Light of Dawn. Instead of providing an additional target to Light of Dawn, the glyph now reduces the number of targets but increases the throughput. Light of Dawn was not a very useful spell in 10-player raids or similar small groups, like Arena teams. This glyph should allow paladins to tailor Light of Dawn for their group size. the bigest changes are to ret no Explanation there !! lol gg blizzard Nastassia2 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 Having a hard time healing... I have 2 healers - a druid and this pally. My druid has absolutely no problems healing heroics, za/zg and even some raids. This pally has a pretty easy time with heroics but on certain bosses in za/zg it's a nightmare and his ilvl is pretty similar to the druids. When there is a lot of damage being tossed around I can't keep up and end up burning my mana down because I have to fast cast to keep peeps alive or I spend too much time on the dps and the tank gets too low and I have to fast cat to keep him up (and yes the tank is beaconed). Granted it's mostly pugs and there are certainly a lot of "special" people in those groups but I figure if my druid can handle it, my pally should just as easy. Any assistance on heavy aoe damage situations would be greatly appreciated. edit (I realize I have 2 pieces of pvp gear on but haven't been able to get any good drops to replace them).Elorien4 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 Leveling in Cata??? Prot or ret just looking for opinions i have both specs but i would prefer to only pick up gear for one while i level. Questing as prot is really easy right now but i have a feeling thats gonna change when the mobs have more health and i wont be able to aoe 4-5 down at a timeChopps3 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 Which has priority? I've just hit 85 and I'm starting to try to gear up for entry level raiding and heroics. From my experience so far I haven't had any threat issues, only survivability . I've read that main priority is getting hit cap/expertise cap, then to stack mastery and de-prioritize avoidance stats such as dodge and parry. I was just going to get an opinion from another source. What should be my priority stats when gearing up for entry level tanking. A stat hierarchy model would be preferable.Raydlor9 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 Plate Specialization and Shields Hello, I was wondering if you have to have a shield equipped to get your Plate Specialization as a Holy Paladin. My theory is that it doesn't count but others insist that it does. Thank you in advance.Slickfurry6 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 Ret 4.3 crit vs mastery I read somewhere that crit surpasses mastery as the best secondary stat at a certain point. Can anyone confirm this and if so tell me what that point is? I would love to get more instaexobombprocs from more crit and have it be max dps ;DTrucidare2 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 So...when is Inquisition NOT garbage? A few of you may have read (and even responded) to my thread asking about improving my Ret. game. I figured it out last night. You know what I did? I removed Inquisition from my PvP rotation. Immediately, I got the big damage, burst, and everything else I'd heard about Ret. but was unable to recreate. Retribution got 500 percent more fun, and all I did, again, was throw Inquisition in the trash. Not only did my PvP get more fun, but so did PvE. I now complete my dailies way faster, farm stuff way faster, etc... all because I told CLCRet to ignore Inquisition. I can't overstate this. For PvP and (short) PvE, Inquisition is trash. It's garbage. Toss it, and you'll be glad within minutes that you did. This leads to my question. When is it actually a good idea to use Inquisition. I'm guessing PvE boss fights? Does it even help then, or is it also a giant Holy Power waster in that context? Bonus question: Do you use Ret. aura for PvP, or switch over to Devotion/Resistance dependign upon the context?Ryzaerian16 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 Paladin or Druid healer Hey everyone! A friend and I are planning on making new characters that will work together well in 2s/3s. He is going Warrior, and I am going Druid or Paladin as heals. Now what I would like to know is what are the pros and cons of each. I need someone who really knows both of these classes and their respective healing specs. I know resto druids aren't so hot in pvp right now, but I'd love someone to prove me wrong. Thanks for any help!Alfrachas4 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 Dumb Inq question For Ret, is it suggested to only use 3 HP on Inq? Or should I use whatever I have if it's about to fall off? Edit: This is for raiding at 85, I realize using Inq while questing is probably a waste hahaRoevathus0 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 Advice on DPS and spec/gear please Hiya folks, Just looking to get some input on where my dps should be with the gear I have and if I should make any changes to reforging/chanting/gems/etc (I know I need one more JC gem, I'll be doing that when I get home tonight). I'm not raiding yet so I know my hit doesn't need to be higher, I'll tweak to get the 8% once I get to that point. Right now (before the helm upgrade this morning, had the 353 troll one before) I'm consistently getting 14-19K on trash depending on cooldowns and procs and on most boss fights I can sustain 18-21K. Can I improve on that? Would it be entirely rotation tweaks at this point or do I need to change something else? Thanks in advance for the advice! Cheers, Cach Cachrisany5 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 Coming back to wow needing help! Hey guys. I left the WoW community for awhile and I decided that I want to try and get back into it. I have many level 85's I could play but I remember my Paladin being the most fun. I am not sure if I'm wanting to heal, tank, or DPS. I remember when I used to play Ret. was under-powered. Was just hoping someone could fill me in on some need to know stuff about Paladins nowadays. Maybe direct me to a couple sites to help me get a feel for them again. And could someone also tell me if Ret is a viable raid spec anymore? Thanks in advance. Sealofmoo.Sealofmøø0 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 Heart of Rage and SoT Glyph Hey guys, I have a couple of questions: 1. I just picked up heart of rage. Was I correct in replacing License to Slay with it? 2. I had reforged away from expertise and I still had over 30 (33) expertise. I reset my reforges, got my expertise to 36 and switched my glyphs out. I switched out my glyph of seal of truth with glyph of crusader strike, should I go with the glyph of judgement instead? I'm guessing that the 8 second CD and the meh damage of judgement would yield less DPS than more CS crits. Thanks guys.Atreus6 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 How do i look? Gear, Chants, Gems, Etc. Struggling a bit on Rag in FL. Not sure if something about my gear is off, or if im just unskilled prat with delusional tendencies. Constructive criticism ppreferred! ATM im pushing roughly 11.2k HPS.Whackers12 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 Sacred Cleansing What bosses (or trash) in firelands have a magic debuff where sacred cleansing would be necessary? I am seeing some people who don't take that talent point. It seems that I really only dispel the wave of Ragnaros after sulfurus smash. But that doesn't seem to be magic. But the dungeon guide doesn't say. Also can you think of any tier 11 raids that need sacred cleansing? Or any boss/instance at all? I am thinking of dropping the talent point for something else.Andrais14 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 Retribution Paladins Ok, I only have one question for Blizzard. When will retribution get a buff to their damage and not nerfed "to the ground" (that quote should be remembered well).Solith14 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 take hammer off of wings So that rets will have a valid reason to get better sustained damage than the incoming buff to 2h spec and SoT buffGhastbawl2 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 Is ret a viable questing/solo spec? Before when I tried ret if I pulled more then one mob I would die, is this still the case?Pallyôs8 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 Link to a following discussion Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 Does anyone not hate ret? It seems all I hear is how much it sucks, does anyone like it?Kiza48 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 Newest Holy Paladin PTR Nerfs •Beacon of Light is triggered by Word of Glory, Holy Shock, Flash of Light, Divine Light and Light of Dawn at 50% transference and Holy Light at 100% transference. It does not transfer Holy Radiance, Protector of the Innocent or other sources of healing With this being the case I am wondering why is this being considered. I know at the end of T11 that Paladins were just able to spam Divine Light and not really worry about mana and thats why our mana costs were increased, but now I don't see the reasoning behind this change. The nerf i'm mainly talking about is Protector of the Innocent. Holy Paladins healing or self healing in fact, is not a problem or a main factor in healing. It is more of an overheal more then anything. I'm really just asking why this is being nerfed. Taking off 2-3k heals on average of 2-3 seconds of a 10 minute fight to the beacon target is huge. Not only are the Protector of the Innocent heals being nerfed but the amount of heals we get from judgement due to lack of judging and getting rid of the need to jugde as much as possible, now there is no use to do it more than just to get your buff again which is another nerf to our heals. Yes it's a very small amount of heals and its towards just ourselves but it still reduces overall output. Now lets look at Holy Radiance. This is a pretty decent heal in 4.2 and has a useful speed boost for PvE and PvP. Didn't seem like it was too much healing but people's opinions opted for this spell to become a targetable spell and now in which case it has for PTR for 4.3. As of this spell becoming a targetable spell it also seems like the total amount of healing for the amount of mana it costs is almost not worth it. With it becoming a targetable healing spell we also lose the mobility of the speed buff. I've been playing on the PTR and I like the idea of the new Holy Radiance but if we could see some sort of buff to make this even close to the one of 4.2 then it would be great. Just a simple buff as in making the mana cost just slighty lower or healing 1 or 2 more targets with a longer lasting HoT. What I see since the beginning of Cata is continous Holy Paladin nerfs, yes there are some buffs here and there but mainly nerfs.Vanelz2 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 holy pally help how much spell power would i need to heal at lvl 70Lolimfat4 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 What are ways Rets can become less Rng relian My idea Divine purpose- your judgments will generate a charge of holy power and cause your next ability that consumes holy power to not consume holy power but act as if you had 3 charges of holy power----2 CHARGES art of war- crusader strikes proc this ability and in addition to what it currently does it will cause your next excorsism to also generate a charge of holy power- cannot happen more than x seconds Thoughts? please no trolling, if they are bad ideas please say so in a constructive manner.Bråveheart1 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 Another nerf to holy. Protector of the innocent will no longer transfer 50% of our passive self heal to the beacon. For those wondering that is a 2k heal to the beacon lost on every single cast including instants. I'm not surprised even slightly. Every single patch since the end of wotlk has changed a major part of the holy paladin playstyle (this time it's judgment) and every single patch has brought nerfs.Chjkfjnghmdk1 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 holy pvp just wanted to find out how well it is doing atm in rbg's. Is it worth playing or is priest/shaman way better? If so what is the best build for it? thanksViledeath3 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 roaring mask vs horseman's helm Im always bad at making decisions like this =(Rabanastre7 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 Armor to match HH helm. I got my HH helm today and the main reason I wanted it was to transmog in 4.3. Then I started thinking, maybe I should make an entire armor set to match the helm. One of my favorite PvP sets was the hunter's set in BC.. cant remember what it was called but was completly black and just wicked looking. My question is: does anyone know of a "black" plate armor set that would match the helm well? If not a set then maybe just some pieces that you think would look good with the helmet. Thanks for the input!Holybub0 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 20, 2011 Templar Verdict no Crits? Is it just me or did they remove chance to crit from Templar Verdict? Been like this for awhile now.Palastorm5 Oct 20, 2011
Oct 19, 2011 64 ret paladin in battlegrounds 3 got muted remake w/ different audio hope this doesn't get muted tooMajinßuu0 Oct 19, 2011
Oct 19, 2011 T11 to 12 question When did you start dropping your T11 for 12? Just got my T12 chest today (1st piece of 12, this's an alt so I'm slackin). Should I wait til I get a 2nd piece to trade out?Legendãiry1 Oct 19, 2011
Oct 19, 2011 need help pvp wise sup all, im new to HOLY pvp and have a few questions ive been a holy pally for a bit now and decided to get into pvp as holy, the thing is my pve spec doesnt seem to be doing to well, gear either, but im workin on it there seems to be pvp specs on everything except holy, not sure why, maybe i just didnt notice it whats the best spec atm for holy pvp? and what about gylphs? tyDragnar7 Oct 19, 2011
Oct 19, 2011 4.2 The return of the Shockadin? With the current paladin changes that have occurred since the Pre-Cata patch when we had the good 'ol Holy/prot or holy/ret healing specs for HL or a full out FoL spam class and sit at a nice range and have little mana issues back when 40k+ in T9 and up gear was pretty e-z going on most reg ICC content and now with the cata changes it is looking much like blizzard is trying to direct the Holy Paladin group into the classic "Shockadin" role that some of us had during the last days of Classic in 40man naxx more of a dps role but now a heal,and very low melee dps class with the 4.1 and the soon to be 4.2 change with the mana cost of our heals going up. Now granted if we stack spr on our gear like mad with reforging sockets and enchants we drop other stats like haste etc just to beef the mp5 to sustain long healing intensive fights if we have only the static mp5 from gear and the Divine Plea and arcane torrent for the Blood Elfs and the SoL judgment seal release if we were to maintain an out of melee range(not counting on or including replenish innervate or other sources if having an open-system to allow that.for sake of post we shall ignore other players input to mana regen.)Now to maintain a constant HpS during a boss in counter for the best results we end up having to be in melee range with the tank and use DP,Judge,AT(BE) when the CD is off plus depending on your holy tree if you spec into the Free HP on direct hit talent or other possible talents with the standard cookie cutter heal spec other 4 possible Ffa talent points we have a far more like able stready stream of mana incoming while we have a large mana out put going out with most heals like DL FoL HL all having mana cost upped by 5% from the 4.1 as is standing rates. With this i can see that hey we paladins wear plate and have a good survival record to date when a melee add or boss physical type move is used and we are in range or have aggro etc. we generaly come out alive and with a shinny mark in our plate armor unless we account for past enrage timers when everyone just bends over and takes it how it comes. With all the rambling on to make the point I am getting at is in this expansion are the WoW Dev's trying to remake some forms of the old Vanilla play styles with forcing us to become the fable shockadin and sit with the melee to keep everyone alive? seeing how Holy shock now has mana cost reduced and our exorcism with the talent Denounce 2/2 having an undispellable debuff that prevent target from causing/applying critical effects. Zelagez79 Oct 19, 2011
Oct 19, 2011 Sunwalker flying mount Just curious what the paladin community thinks a tauren "sunwalker" would ride. So far the flameward hippogryph is the only one i can think ofWrathra1 Oct 19, 2011
Oct 19, 2011 2200 Ret 2nd Arena Montage thanks for your interest if you wanna check it out here is the link also check out my channel! Oct 19, 2011
Oct 19, 2011 Glyph of the Long Word I put this glyph in a while back and, while I'm planning on replacing it later today, I was wondering how this is affected by haste. Is it possible to get an extra tick out of this? Also, if the initial WoG crits, why shouldn't the ticks crit as well? Thanks!Bromalferdon1 Oct 19, 2011
Oct 19, 2011 Finally got Heroic Skullstealer! So yesterday, Shannox dropped both H Skullstealer and H Zoid's. 10/18/2011 marks the day I first hold in my hands a Heroic raid boss weapon. /happy pandaPyraedine5 Oct 19, 2011
Oct 19, 2011 4.3 changes make RNG reliance worst? Will the changes coming in 4.3 make RNG reliance worst? With TV getting a 5% increase to damage, will that make a lucky paladin procing a lot of Divine Purposes be miles ahead of the next paladin on DPS? What about AW criting or not? A paladin now goes into a fight and his dps can vary from 25k-30k dps. after 4.3 Will a paladin go into a fight and see his dps vary from 30k-45k, depending on if Divine Purpose procs a lot or if hammer crits? Or will it all pretty much even out and a paladin will just vary from 30k-35k? (Numbers are just examples)Salah2 Oct 19, 2011
Oct 19, 2011 That was the fix? So I am guessing we not going to see anymore ret changes. Also question for the devs: Why cant ret pallies get a 3 second Crusader Strike?Viciouzangel24 Oct 19, 2011
Oct 19, 2011 Transmog gear :D Well i personally like the set i am wearing inthis moments i still need the pants but i'll get them today or tomorrow after farming that dungueon like crazy...the chest i was lucky enough to find one that looked exactly the same but im still trying to get the real one because it has better stats and Sockets but oh i wanna hear what you guys think : )Remence0 Oct 19, 2011