Nov 30, 2011 Re-wording or Fix Hand of Freedom and Cleanse OK this is something I have been complaining about for a long while. I have talked to multiple GM's and I have yet to get a proper answer, and I do not appreciate being talked to like I am a child by the GM's or being told we can't help you with this go to the forums, I thought that is what you guys are there for, but I digress, so here it goes. While in arenas or BG's if a rouge saps me, I am not able to use my Hand of Freedom or my Cleanse. When in use of either they clearly state that hand of freedom or cleanse is suppose to remove a movement impairing effect. Last time I checked when sapped I cannot move so clearly this should fall under the MOVEMENT impairing effect. Same can be said for when a player gets iced by a mage. It is impairing me to move so it should fall into the category of movement impairing effect. Also I find it ironic that PVP trinkets and Every Man For Himself works on saps, ice, fear, basically everything, yet it has almost the same exact wording as Hand of Freedom, so whats up with that? I can understand it maybe not working on fears because in a way my toon is still moving but I have no control of them, but it still does not make much since to have a spell say one thing and yet mean another. So my recommendation either make the spell work as it so clearly states, or change the wording so that is means "snares" like entangling roots or chains of ice not just saying movement impairing effect. Be a little more specific when it comes to these spells because if my toon is not moving it is then a movement impairing effect. Thank you, ~EechoEecho56 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 The Mighty Hammer of Justice Overpowered.Leomarvin0 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 Judgement glyph Anyone gonna swap out a glyph for the Judgement one ive been playing around with it but not to sure if its worth it or not.Ummrawr0 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 Paladin's level 85 performance? So my first toon was a paladin which i only got to level 20 then i started my hunter, and now im playing a dk. I stopped training my paladin due to my brother having one at 85 and saying that they just aren't to great at end game, so well i never really gave it a chance. I have been playing random bgs and doings instances and pallys always top the charts. Is this true at end game? They just seem totally dominate at this level and lower levels. I'm not asking this because i'm going to go to my pally if they are the best because i play what i enjoy but i'm just curious. I'm thinking i may heirloom him once i ping 85 if they are a well rounded class. I enjoyed mine just like i said never gave it a chance due to being totally new to the game and my brother who has three 85s turned me away from them. Also how are they at healing? Thanks!Golo4 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 Holy Radiance is now overpowered (PvE) Any baddie who claims HR is nerfed clearly does not know what he is talking about. Lets do some simple math, shall we? In my 378 gear, my HR's upfront heal is 7k, and the ticks heal for 1.5k. It ticks three times (four under haste effects). This means that if I heal one person with Holy Radiance, it will heal a total of 11.5k. The number of people it can heal before diminishing returns is 6. So when it hits at least 6 people, HR heals 69k. Divine Lights crit for around 60k. In a raid setting I have around 22% crit. HR now heals for 84k. This is 80k+ of healing you're pumping out every two seconds, which translates to 40k HPS. Now you have to take into account mastery affecting the upfront heal, and the Holy Power it provides. And guess what? You don't use any more mana than when you were spamming DL in 4.2.Pyraedine15 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 Worgen Pally Don't yall think it would be kickass,if Worgen's could be pally's???Krillen8 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 I am in love... with all of the haste and spirit on all of our holy gear. Finally, they realized that we're not looking for mastery. /tearSalesh0 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 paladin or shaman Im making a new character, ive been interested in making a healer but ive also been thinking about making another tank. Paladin can do both and shaman seems fun. Both of these classes interest me, ive seen some pretty good paladins and i like the shamans elemental playstyle. Which of these two would you recommend would be more fun to play and which tends to heal better? ill be doing alot of pvp and ill probably raid quite a bit as well.Juggernaugt6 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 Anyone notice the 5%? I really didn't notice much of a difference last night and wanted others thoughts on it. I am new to Ret (so this could be it), came back to my Pally about a week and a half prior to 4.3 going live as I enjoy the challenge. When I top charts on my DW Frost DK or MM Hunter it's 'lol face roll moar' and when I can keep up on my Ret it's a completely different reaction - I love it.Kaíden5 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 when to reapply? Im curious to know what time it is best to reapply judgement for the mana regen at 30 seconds or a few seconds before it falls off. I got my thumb to stomp hitting it on cd when i could on my naga but im curious to know when to reapply it or what the general consensus is.Spamalot7 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 holy radiance. someone explain WHY ? There has been multiple threads on this topic already. Can someone explain WHY they changed holy radiance to the way it is now? The new version has its benefits but it has SOME SERIOUS drawbacks. pro: no cooldown. CAN be cast on top of itself on multiple people in different groups. if cast multiple times has GREAT healing output in 25m but at a SEVERE cost to mana. cons: 2.13 sec cast only effects 6 people before diminishing returns. costs 8k mana. lasts only 3 seconds. forces the pally to remain stationary while casting as compared to the previous version pallies have no sprint any more as compared to the previous version. More useful in 25m than 10m. completely useless in arena Auturius7 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 Ret rotation does judgement take prioity over exo now if you dont have t13 2 set?Gierth6 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 Hammer of the Righteous? Has anyone else noticed with this ability when being attacked that the Base Holy damage goes up?Fushira3 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 My gear is too bad for the new heroics? Someone told me this after tanking all of the new heroics with no wipes. There's certain things that look like devourers in the last heroic that do like insane knockback and hit me for like 1/4 my hp and they said it's because i'm a noob and my gear is bad. How is my gear that bad? Even my shoulders from BOT are only 359. I seriously need Firelands gear to do DUNGEON heroics?Shimmerxx7 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 Tank Weapon. Souldrinker Do we know anything about this yet? Because it kinda looks meh. And the CD has to be short for it to be worth much imo.Thorrin2 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 4.3 Holy Pally AoE healing rotation Holy Radiance -> Holy Radiance -> Holy Radiance -> Light of Dawn -> Faceroll I'm not even kidding.Nilathal0 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 New ret pally Priotization? With the changes to HoW, and judgements what is the new prio over everything? is it the same thing with HoW at the bottom of the list?Zetrov1 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 HoW vs Judgement with wings What has priory now when wings are up, with the new HoW nerf and the Judgement buff. Like I got everythign rolling I CS then I TV and if Exo isnt up should I be pressing Judgement or HoW?Livenn3 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 Ret Pally Glyphs 4.3 With the buff judgement got as well as its priority in our rotation with the 2 set T13 has any one done the math to see if its worth getting Glyph of judgement over Exo now?Silverocean2 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 Varothen's Brooch Hello fellow Paladins, I picked up Varothen's brooch and was wondering if it's a good trinket for ret PvE and PvP... ty for the advice!Morgraine3 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 Any Class changes with this patch? Hello my fellow pallies. So the patch hit i see all kinds of new stuff, some really awesome stuff. But one question.. Did they change our class at all yet? or are they saving that for the expasion? If they did change stuff where i can get the list of changes? Thank you every one, Bruel10 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 So Hammer of wrath crit chance is only 6%? Why such a drastic change? 60% crit chance made Hammer of Wrath viable and useful. Now it barely hits higher than my Templar's verdict. Why must we have it nerfed?Gheus5 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 PvP Macro and Reforge Questions So last season my nuke macro had AW with GotAK and the pvp trinket. That with reforging entirely to crit allowed for some solid burst. With the nerf to HoW, is it better to combine the trinket and GotAK with zealotry and stack mastery? Gorkar1 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 Question on trinket for holy I ended up getting Windward Heart tonight. Now I'm trying to decide which will provide better regen, Core of Ripeness or Darkmoon Card: Tsunami ? I was using core and was close to going oom fairly often, would tsunami be a better choice?Furiousg0 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 Rosary of light How good is this trinket compare to AOK? Rosary of LightZaknafeind2 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 did i miss something ??? i dont recall anything but did something happen to getting crushed for some reason can anybody tell me why and thanks for your time looking over this -vid-Videli4 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 A few changes for Paladins in MoP Sorta my own wish list... and some questions i hope someone can answer. but.. most of these changes are wanted by everyone and should be in there already anyway. I'd like to see the healing reduction removed on Divine Plea. It's been a huge pita to have to cancel it every time I need to drop a heal. The original problem and WHY it was added in the first place was because in wrath paladins could pop it and just keep healing, it had a 1min CD then. it made "some" sense. but now that it doesn't restore 50% of your mana I would think it is time to remove the reduction. I'd also like to see the speed boost added to Divine Protection as baseline for all specs. I'd like to see something done with Consecration I need more details on how Veneration works. Does it move with you now? does it remove the effects if used after? Like freedom? Can we place consecration anywhere or is it still just under us? Would be great to see all Hand Spells at 40yards. Bubble and Hand of Protection at 3min CD to match the Warlock Bubble. Change the third final Tier Talent Divine Purpose to something better, just remove that RNG completely! Let Clemency reset the CD on Bubble as well Need an update for Acts of sacrifice, cause last i read. all dispels were going to have a 20something second Cd and remove everything. What is the point of this talent now? Missing the baseline haste buff from JotP, are we getting anything to counter it? It's fairly game breaking as it lowers the GCD by a lot in PvE where haste is extremely limited. What happened to Divine Favor? It has been a holy paladin staple since BC, removing it is silly, what is taking it's place? Burden of guilt should be in T1 and replace Pursuit of justice. Just remove Pursuit of justice, and make something better, because Long arm of the law and this don't even compare to Speed of Light. for any spec. What happened to Fist of Justice being a 30yard range? It really shouldn't be only 20 considering what the trade off is. I feel like Blinding Light is lack luster if that's the only thing paladins get in MoP. If the CD was much lower, 1min maybe 1.5 I could be content with it. but 3 for a 6 second blind is pretty long for a shiny new fun ability that's sooooooooo situational that it wont get much use outside of PvP. Will holy paladins being able hit boss targets somehow? or will holy need to gear for hit now to guarantee JotP Holy wrath damage needs to be raised and not have a target modifier, otherwise what is the point in wasting a cast for its aoe when it hits for 100dmg, you could auto attack and be much more effective. That or make it instant again with no CD, that would make it much more useful. GL getting a cast off with 20 something mobs on you. Where did all of holy paladins damaging spells go? We don't get Inquisition, Exorcism, or Hammer of Wrath? Who is leading your design team? someone smack him for the entire paladin community. Make sure he understands that MoP is a PvP expansion with Extreme emphasis on Factions and what not, leaving a spec with no offensive capability is just plain silly. What ever happened to the thing that made a holy paladin a HOLY PALADIN. You know for almost 4 years paladins had this image, and it was all about not having any push back while casting, and bubble. Now that you have removed Conc aura completely, what do we have left? I mean considering nothing in my above comments get looked and an considered.... paladin is pretty naked. and with that it's time for me to head on over to moon-guard and join my fellow naked single buddies in the Lion's Pride Inn, while I bubble myself and hope to fend off the drunkards. Good day! PS: Would love some second opinions on any and everything, don't be shy friends. You can review everything here:!Arche0 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 enemy of target auto select gone Hi, I used to select tank, and click the judgement, it will automatically select the target of tank and cast judgement on that enemy target. But seems this function is gone after I log on today. I am not sure it's a in-game setting or some add-on just not function any more? Does anyone know how to fix this? ThanksReleezee2 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 Sanctified Wrath 4.3 - 1/3 or 3/3? - PVP Are 40 seconds reduced cooldown and 4% crit on HoW really worth 2 points? I'm trying thinking wether I should move these points. Could Sanctity of Battle be more valuable than one of those points? Maybe a second point on Acts of Sacrifice? Or maybe 2/3 is the best answer for you? Well, what do you people think? I like to see other people's opinions before coming to a conclusion, I hope this thread is useful for everybody. EDIT: I forgot to mention I meant PVP-wise.Edgeworth1 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 4.3 Patch Someone explain to me what about paladins makes us so OP? I play both PVP and PVE and I have yet to find a reason why our class takes more nerfs to things that make our class better. then pretty much any other class in the game. (Bolded areas are things i'd like an answer to.) Holy Radiance now has a 3.0-second cast time Why? What about Holy Radiance if so OP that it now needs to be interupted?, no cooldown, and requires a player target. That target is imbued with Holy Radiance, which heals them and all group members within 10 yards instantly, and continues to heal them by a smaller amount every 1 second for 3 seconds. Seal of Insight, when Judged, no longer returns 15% base mana to the paladin. Judging Seal of Insight still causes damage, and melee attacks will still restore 4% of base mana. Seal of Truth, when Judged, now benefits from a multiplier of 20% per stack of Censure, up from 10%. Talent Specializations - Holy - Clarity of Purpose now also reduces the cast time of Holy Radiance. - Illuminated Healing (mastery) now also applies to Holy Radiance. - Infusion of Light now applies its cast time reduction from Holy Shock critical effects to Holy Radiance, in addition to its current effects. - In addition to providing haste, the effect from Judgements of the Pure now increases mana regeneration from Spirit by 10/20/30% for 60 seconds. - Light of Dawn now affects 6 targets (base effect), up from 5. - Paragon of Virtue now lowers the cooldown of Divine Protection by 15/30 seconds, up from 10/20 seconds. - Speed of Light no longer triggers from Holy Radiance and no longer lowers the Holy Radiance cooldown. Speed of Light now only triggers from Divine Protection. Every other class has away to get away from melee classes, lets take that away from paladins aswell. - Tower of Radiance, in addition to its current effects, now also causes Holy Radiance to always generate 1 charge of Holy Power at all times. - Beacon of Light is triggered by Word of Glory, Holy Shock, Flash of Light, Divine Light and Light of Dawn at 50% transference and Holy Light at 100% transference. It does not transfer - Holy Radiance, Protector of the Innocent or other sources of healing. <strong/> Retribution - Sanctified Retribution now increases the critical hit chance of Hammer of Wrath by 2/4/6%, down from 20/40/60%. A Paladin can barely do any damage unless they have all there CD's popped and half the time our wings are dispelled ANYWAYS. - Two-Handed Weapon Specialization (passive) now increases damage by 25%, up from 20%. Glyphs Glyph of Light of Dawn now lowers the number of targets to 4, instead of increasing targets to 6, but increases healing by 25%.Mercûry19 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 My Hair is too Fantastic 2 I'm only lvl 52 and already my hair is so amazingly fantastic..what will I be like at 85 /gasp/head toss to the side /hairflipHalonn67 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 4.3 is NOT that bad. Stop QQing. I am tired of hearing "LOL ZOMG WINGS NERF COME ON BLIZZ WHY YOU HATE US" Yes. Yes our wings got nerfed. 54% less crit on wings. Now lets look at the buffs, which none of you want to mention: 5% flat increase on weapon damage This goes for Auto Attacks Crusader Strike Templar's Verdict (which hits like a truck) Not to mention your mastery (you have been stacking mastery for pvp right?) which also benefits from this flat increase. This is a really nice buff. 10% AP buff (20% BoM) This benefits everything, thanks to SP->AP. So you get a nice bonus to ALL your abilities from this. 20% benefit from censure stacks on judgement, up from 10%. This is the smallest of the buffs. But its still nice. TLDR: Stop QQing. 4.3 will be fine. Most of you probably never played ret during vanilla anyway (when it was actually bad)Irreligion35 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 Grand Marshal's Set NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU! Why u no transmog?!Gilley3 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 Any current Ret guides? I was wondering if there are any updated ret guides? Or if anyone can check my gear/gems/enchants for some reason, my dps seems a bit low in Fire Lands... it is either good or so-so depending on the fights, but I think it should at least be like 15k... only seems to do good with a lot of procs. I have to be missing something...any help would be great. And I know I am not the best geared and probably could use better gear...this is more an alt...Darremercy3 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 30, 2011 LOD vs divinity im debating on switching out glyph of light of dawn for divinity. at first lod seemed like an obvious choice for 10man but the fact that every single fight in ds has the whole raid stacked up it doesn't seem like it matters all that much. divinity would just be an extra 10% mana per boss fight.Derindel0 Nov 30, 2011
Nov 29, 2011 FINALLY, LoD transfers to Beacon Great day for Holy Pallies! Maybe it's actually worth taking now.Richbutnaked4 Nov 29, 2011
Nov 29, 2011 quick question so looking at talent was wonder. what u guys think after getting 2 set prot of getting abiter of the light over rule of law. since our judgement will give us a shield. but the crit chance to word of glory is nice. but idk what do u guys thinkLonefighter0 Nov 29, 2011
Nov 29, 2011 great news everybody! pallies finally have titans grip check it out! Nov 29, 2011
Nov 29, 2011 Should I still roll a Holy Paladin? Currently have a Ret Paladin but wanted to do some healing. Are Holy Paladins still viable PVP healer?Stryper3 Nov 29, 2011
Nov 29, 2011 How do you strafe (Q and E normally)... If you only have arrow keys binded? I've seen lots of times where people have their whole keyboard bound, and they are moving with (i presume) their arrow keys, and they are circle strafing while casting spells. Am I just missing something? :PAlarmz18 Nov 29, 2011
Nov 29, 2011 How do I deal high damage as a prot paladin. Well, Ive been running some ZA dungeons and I see feral druid tanks hitting 16-18k dps. Its insane. Ive only ever been at max able to hit 12k dps on an aoe tank fight. I am interested in doing more then 6k dps. So i am here to see how. My hit is 1.27% and my exp gets to 13. How do I deal high amounts of damage? What is the prot paladin damage rotation. What do I do stat wise to increase my damage I do? I often have dps pull off me at the start of the fight. That I contribute to the fact that Our only Tricks of the Trade is spammed on dps right away so they get threat and increased damage. Please help.Mizume33 Nov 29, 2011
Nov 29, 2011 So when shall I use the new Holy Radiance? So when do I use the Holy Radiance? Surprisingly, only ppl within 6 yards get full effect. If only 2-3 people will get affected, I guess Divine light with Beacon is better. The old HR is instant with bigger range, I cast and ran into melees, position my self smartly. Now what, I need to run into melees first (which is also 10 yard near the boss), and cast a 2.5 sec spell (10 yard near the boss), doesn't sound like what a healer or any caster should do. I guess I would not use it in 5 men unless everybody packed together. Light of dawn is also a joke, WOG+beacon+POI beats it every situation except topping people when they are already 90% full health. Especially WOG has 30% chance not using holy power, 60% more chance to crit heal a player lower than 35% total hp.Releezee5 Nov 29, 2011
Nov 29, 2011 Scrolling Combat Text Anybody else use an addon for this? Currently I use Parrot, I have previously used SCT and MSBT. It took a lot of getting used to at first and while I like it now, I feel like there is a lot of pointless word and number spam all over my screen especially in pvp situations. I'm sure I can greatly limit what it outputs but I'm thinking of just getting rid of it altogether and getting something like NiceDamage to change the font of the normal damage/healing numbers. Just wanted to see what other opinions were on combat text addons and whether they've ultimately helped or been more of a nuisance.Kurae1 Nov 29, 2011
Nov 29, 2011 Such a shame Can't use the models of the level 60 pvp gear and the 2h sword =/. Loved the look on my pally.....Vanthalos1 Nov 29, 2011
Nov 29, 2011 ret pally. Are they viable/wanted in PvE. I've really wanted to get into raiding and i'm not sure if there's a high demand for rets...Kangxxi10 Nov 29, 2011
Nov 29, 2011 We aren't shining anymore... I don't get it, somehow warriors, Dk's, and bears always have more health then me even if I have much better gear then them. Face it, pallies are losing their shine, Low health and the mastery is the worst out of all of the other tank mastery (my opinion)Blite20 Nov 29, 2011
Nov 29, 2011 Glyph of Seal of Insight I really wish they would have changed the way Seal of Insight worked for this patch, rather than waiting until MoP to change it. Such a waste of a glyph spot when the 5% bonus healing could be tied in already.Salesh2 Nov 29, 2011
Nov 29, 2011 Ret Tier 13 Matchups What to use, what not to use. I'm kind of dissapointed with our tier helm although I understand (slightly) why they did it that way. Really isn't much base expertise on any of our gear. The offset helm is worse in my opinion so I suppose we'll all go with the tier. Anyways. What pieces of gear do you all plan to take from valor/Dragon Soul? There seems to be more mastery on the Dragon Soul pieces than the valor pieces. I guess it'll all be clearer once it's all in front of us. Along with the helm, I'm wondering about our shoulders. The shoulders off of Deathwing provide more mastery. Maybe we would take these? Here's a list of what I plan to use from Dragon Soul: Weapon - Experimental Specimen Slicer Bracers - Rockhide Bracers Belt - Runescriven Demon Collar Boots - Treads of Crushed Flesh *Shoulders* - Backbreaker Spaulders - possibility? Ring - Curled Twilight Claw Ring - Breathstealer Band Trink - Eye of Unmaking Trink - Creche of the Final Dragon Here's a list of what I plan to use from Valor: Relic - Gutripper Shard Back - Dreamcrusher Dr ape (T_T) Neck - Necklace of Black Dragon's Teeth Well. This is all I have to go on for now. All of this is probably going to change, but what are your thoughts?Ranelle0 Nov 29, 2011
Nov 29, 2011 Crusader Strike / Holy Power Generation Ok... I don't think I'm crazy, but lately I'm finding that I'm hitting Crusader Strike and it's not giving me an application of Holy Power. Or when I have Zealotry up, I hit Crusader Strike fully expecting to see a full three holy power appear... and nothing. Is anyone else seeing this? It happened to me today multiple times in a single fight... and it's getting very annoying. Is this something known? I've done some researching online and on the forms and haven't seen it mentioned.Saralond13 Nov 29, 2011
Nov 29, 2011 4.3 ret BiS. Anyone seen any yet? or care to make one:)?! i'll let you touch my hair.Livenn3 Nov 29, 2011