Nov 22, 2011 Avengers of Hyjal Ret Trinket Just finally got Essence of the Eternal Flame and trying to figure out the optimal way to use it. (Yeah, I know, I was slow getting there. What can I say?) I'm not a theory-crafter, but I suppose ideally you want it up as close to on cooldown as possible. On the other hand, you definitely want it up during zealotry/wings. But cooldown on zealotry/wings is 120 seconds, while cooldown on Essence is 60 seconds. So is it better to save it to use with zealotry/wings (maybe just macro it to them), or is it better to use it immediately when it's up, without reference to zealotry/wings (maybe macro it to something you do constantly in any fight, light Crusader Strike?). The result of the latter could be that it's not up when you pop zealotry/wings, but the result of the former is a huge loss of uptime. I'm sure there's an optimal theory-crafter's solution. Or maybe you just have to eyeball it, and decide when to use and when to save, depending on where your zealotry/wings timer curently is? Can anyone provide guidance or a link? Any help much appreciated. (For that matter, I've got Dwyer's Caber and License to Slay now. Various sites rank the Essence higher than both of them. Is this consistent with people's experience in game, or am I better off sticking with what I've got?)Unoki5 Nov 22, 2011
Nov 22, 2011 Pallies are just as relient on mana. Simply put, I'm just tired of the hype and prejudice toward paladins from others healers who seem to think we don't use mana, particularly in pvp. We have one heal which doesn't cost mana: Word of Glory. There is no proc that will give us an additional free cast. A fast/instant cast, yes. Free cast? No. That being said, Word of Glory is still free.. ish. We DO have to spend mana to build up the holy power for it. It's also instant. It's also one of the base-lines for paladin healing. No matter what you say, we can not get off as big of heals as an equally geared priest. We do not have the raid healing capability of any of ther other classes. And Beacon, which would normally heal a second target, is often best used for your primary target for faster Holy Power charges, so we sometimes don't even get the second heal from beacon. Our mastery provides a bit of mitigation, but nothing like the priests bubble (even a holy priest). Having Word of Glory DOES help out with mana. In many pvp situations I've been able to out-last another healing class on mana. However, other classes how much more ability to recap mana than paladins. Stay with me here, we DO have a judgement every 8 seconds, which will restore about 2.5% base mana, or around 3k minus the judgement cost. Then we have divine plea, which cuts our healing in half and is dispellable. Used correctly, we CAN keep our mana a little longer, but ever blizzard themselves have acknowledges the idea that it's just absurd to expect to be able to judge every 8 seconds while simultaneously keeping a groupmember alive. And if divine plea isn't dispelled, we either have to stop it shot or heal at 50% for 12 seconds. Should ANY of this be changed? No. But considering that in pvp situations where I can be mana burned or have to focus so hard that I oom, if I can't afford to judge, and I can;t afford to HS, I'm as done as any other healer. Purpose of this post: Priests have offensive dispells, an unlimited supply of bubbles, mana burn, shadowfiend, a hot, and aoe heals. Shamans have totems, aoe heals, hots, ghost wolf for mobility, among other things (Though granted I know the least amount about shamans, having never played one). Druids have plenty of hots, a few big instant heals, aoe heals, travel form, root escapes, and all classes have their own stuff? What do I have? Well. In an arena I have two bubbles, a beason and a guardian along with one mana free instant cast that I must build up holy power for. It makes me mana effecient, sure. But once I'm out in pvp against any capable team, then I'm out. It doesn't put an infinity sign where my mana bar should be and I don't have the biggest or fastest heals (Though with procs I do have some pretty quick heals). My point is simply that the bias of other classes towards paladins because of our slight, yes, only slight, difference in mana effeciency needs to go.Painpills4 Nov 22, 2011
Nov 22, 2011 Transmog gear seen a few people around this server with gear that looks like T2 but black and blue rather than the red and gold. anyone know where i can get this gear if its still around.Aribelle4 Nov 22, 2011
Nov 22, 2011 Ret less fun at lvl 85? Did any of you think holy power was a reasonable mechanic when you were lower level? Granted at lower level, CS does more damage in comparison, you had two things you could use hp on, heal or damage. I like somewhat of combo systems, but when I reached 85 it got extremely tedious, and with the release of cata at 85 we were extremely weak even in pve questing of all things. Think tol barad, if you did the dailies before we had a buff and were in basic green gear. There are many reasons why it is so tedious, one of which is the upkeep of inquisition, and the fact that holy power is hard to build up, especially with dodges and parries. And that we need 3 hp to do any form of damage. Not to mention we have the lowest uptime on a pvp target, where other melee can instantly do large damage while on a target for a brief second, we tickle till we get the hp. I mean it could be a cool combo system, if lets say we had more uptime on a target, and if maybe we weren't constantly having to use our resource on a buff. It just seems like our class always is tweaked in an awkward way, Its like someone with a crooked back, constantly walking around half bent out of shape, and they really need to see a chiropractor to get straightened out, yet never do it. Blizzard please take ret to the chiropractor, you would think they would be competent enough to notice the need for this. Seoinage3 Nov 22, 2011
Nov 22, 2011 PVP ret and tier 13 I know others will be doing this, getting the pve set two piece bonus for holy power generation on judgement. But which pieces will you get? If you get shoulders and gloves then that is the least resilience lost. But you are stuck with more haste to be reforging. Where if you get an item like pants, you lose some extra resil, but get amazing stats, and lose the haste off of the pvp pants. So if you plan on doing two piece pve set in pvp, which pieces will they be?Seoinage4 Nov 22, 2011
Nov 22, 2011 Please Blizz give me Repentance again Thanks for the 4.3 nerfs, atleast give us rep back for pvp. At least make it a tier 2 option in ret so I can has.Ashleybeth6 Nov 22, 2011
Nov 22, 2011 Ret rotation I normally use the priority of HoW, TV at 3 HP, CS, TV proc, Exo proc, judgement, holy wrath, Is it normal to have gaps in your rotation while waiting for everything to come off CDDerivative5 Nov 22, 2011
Nov 22, 2011 Ret DPS? My Rotation or My Gear? I am currently seeing about 7-8K in Heroics. This seems to me that it is a little low for my Ret set. I am not sure if this is average, good or bad considering my gear. Or if it is my rotation. I work off the Ret suggestions on Elitistjerks and that seems to be an accepted order. Any suggestions.. other than improve my gear and get enchants. Enchants are too expensive to put on 333 Blues and I need 2 for my purples that are not enchanted but I cannot see how that would make that much of a difference. Thanks Tornel10 Nov 22, 2011
Nov 22, 2011 ret pvp i know that the community is really vocal about ret pvp being in need of attention and care... or that it sucks now... either/or... six of one, half a dozen of the other. i have been feeling an "itch" to play my pally a bit lately. i enjoy pvp. my pally is currently in fresh blue and green just dinged 85 gear from months ago. the community is also vocal about hunter pvp needing care and/or sucking. i actually have fun on my hunter. the only thing that really hard counters me is someone who out-gears me as far as i have played. specs and classes certainly have advantage on me. people do certainly beat me. i always feel like i can put up a good fight and make a meaningful contribution. i also pvp on a rogue and on a feral druid. when i think of ret pvp i sort of get the willies. what does ret do well against? i don't mean to qq i am honestly curious. i feel like ret does only decent against a handful of specs and gets romped by the rest. am i wrong about this? i would love to be wrong. against healers i can at least dispel all their stuffs and put up a healing debuff and cc a little bit. what can ret do? i feel that i have a good ability against all melee... even rogues... even though they can beat me. don't rogues wreck ret? how does ret do vs the other melee? i do fine vs mages. don't mages wreck ret? how do rets do vs shadow priests and locks? hunters also seem to wreck rets. if rets only do well vs boomkins and ele shaman that is sad... and i bet both can put up a good fight vs ret. how is ret in pvp atm (atm meaning mostly on the ptr as that is going to be current soon enough)? Eytan14 Nov 22, 2011
Nov 22, 2011 OMG! i cant believe there are no +intellect plate gears for L60 holy pally from PVP gears vendor in Hall of Legends. i finally made my pally to 60, thought i could finally get a full plate set. but for level 60, all plate gears are +strength. i have to wait until L70. where is the best place or dungeon to find +intellect plate gears for Level 60 toon? so far all the dungeons i have played, all Plate drops are +strength.Loktard1 Nov 22, 2011
Nov 22, 2011 4.3. We only judge once per minute? Holy As topic, reading some forum and they say 1 per minute, is this true?Kayslay7 Nov 22, 2011
Nov 22, 2011 Holy looking to switch to Ret (PVP) How is Ret in PvP nowadays? i haven't been keeping up. I have a priest I want to gear out as Disc and don't really want to play two healers...Beaststatus5 Nov 22, 2011
Nov 22, 2011 4.3 paladin So what should we expect for 4.3 holy paladin? Best or worst healers ? Viable for arena and rbgs? Or is it time to hang up the plate gear and reroll to another class ! Lets hear it from the pallies ! PS this is for pvp holy paladins :PEzkieo1 Nov 22, 2011
Nov 22, 2011 A little help is asked for... ... a returning Paladin. Just returning and I want to get my Paladin back on track. What path do I need to follow for gear and talent? I would like to keep sword and shield. Thanks for the advice.Valden1 Nov 22, 2011
Nov 22, 2011 Zoid's vs. Skullstealer Greataxe? Which is better? Zoid's: +20 Strength +3 Expertise due to Human racial Skullstealer Greataxe: Mastery instead of Crit Can't figure out through raid testing, since my DPS fluctuates enough on its own. Was under the impression the Strength and Expertise on Zoid's made up for the lack of mastery, but have been hearing otherwise from several sources. Any comments would be appreciated.Sophus4 Nov 22, 2011
Nov 22, 2011 Where do you think retribution will be in MoP I think we're going to get broken again. Am I being paranoid or has seeing how we're managed over the last seven years finally started to take its toll on me? Btw I was only tried ret a little in 3.3.5 and took it seriously from 4.0.6 until the WoG nerf in 4.1. I was only Holy and protection before then.Kissieaz5 Nov 22, 2011
Nov 22, 2011 Sacred Shield Needs some fixing If lets say i'm at 35% hp and lets say a mage hits me in deepfreez I go from the 35% to death and the shield never procs. Could they not make it like the spell cauterizeGunslingér8 Nov 22, 2011
Nov 22, 2011 Gnomadin Dear Blizzard, Please make me a gnome paladin, lets face it the dreanei look isnt cutting it. And humans are just gnomes who are trying too hard to be dwarfs. And as such I would much appreciate taking the time to make me into the gnome I've always wanted to be.Zezmazuru13 Nov 22, 2011
Nov 21, 2011 How Much DPS Hi, I was wondering how much dps i should be doing with my current gear i have on? I don't really look at the dps meters, but every time someone posts in a dungeon, im 4th place under the other dps and tank. Like i just finished a troll dungeon and when it was done i checked, i had 10k over all dps and 12 on the last boss. Should i be doing better with my current gear, or is this normal? ThanksKelmach2 Nov 21, 2011
Nov 21, 2011 Prot ?'s I just started trying to gear this character toward tanking a few days ago. Obviously, my gear isn't raid worthy, some pieces are "ok" and some are terrible. I started out just running 5-6 normal dungeons to get a feel for it and I really do not have an issue keeping aggro save for pack pulls and someone dumping 20+k in a normal mode. I feel squishy. I had a priest last time tell me I'm squishy and recommended I work on my reforges in a 346 heroic. I've read around and all I can see is mastery mastery, and pieces that have mastery reforge the other secondary stat to dodge or parry and to keep those around the same level. I know I do not have many of the items enchanted and as gearing is pretty smooth these days with the justice/vp rewards and molten front dailies, it doesnt take terribly long to upgrade slots (hence a good deal of lacking enchants). I'd rather toss enchants on gear that I plan to use for raids etc when I'm settled on it and plan to have it for a while. Do I have an issue with reforging, gemming, low in one avoidance stat or another? My ilvl is in the low 350's but I feel like I'm getting mashed in the 346 heroics, IE trash packs in heroic grim batol, specifically with the ogre mages or whichever mob spawns the plethora of twisted nethers.Srixon10 Nov 21, 2011
Nov 21, 2011 Ret PVP, Crit or Mastery...? Just wondering I hear a lot of talks about both being good for PvP, but what is your peoples choice?Cinderrot1 Nov 21, 2011
Nov 21, 2011 Need some pvp holy pally tips! So im starting to take a liking to holy pally pvp. As of right now im just going to do random bg's but i might eventually get into so arenas/rated bg's. So go any tips? Im logged out in the pvp spec i put together in like 30 seconds so any advice there would help. And remember im not doing any arenas or rated stuff yet.Amishjello2 Nov 21, 2011
Nov 21, 2011 Rate my pally. What do you guys think about my pally? Been doing heroic FL and just wanting to know what you guys thought. thanksJàden4 Nov 21, 2011
Nov 21, 2011 Glyph Of Truth Noob Question I realize this is noob question but I just spent a good portion of my pallys funds on upgrading his riding skill so I dont have a ton of money to throw around on reforging but just to make sir I understand the situation correctly if I use the glyph of truth I only need 16 more points to hit the exp cap? My bank account thanks you for your help. Thanks and cheers!Tygranoran10 Nov 21, 2011
Nov 21, 2011 Cloak enchant for PvP Holy So I'm thinking about going Tailoring for the leg kit and cloak enchant, but I'm not sure if it's worth it. What do you think is more valuable for Holy arena, the flat +50 intellect or Darkglow Embroidery (chance to increase spirit by 580 for 15 seconds on cast)? The Darkglow seems like it would be amazing for arena, but is 50 intellect too big of a loss? I need some opinions before I commit to leveling Tailoring.Rahhwasz0 Nov 21, 2011
Nov 21, 2011 Plaque under character I have a plaque hanging under my character's health bar and also on my character that I cannot find how to remove. Can anyone help me with this? Thanks.Kunga8 Nov 21, 2011
Nov 21, 2011 Spell steal.... Does it make anyone else rage?Liching12 Nov 21, 2011
Nov 21, 2011 How good is the Tier 12 4 set for ret? I can use the 4 set of 378's (Helm, chest, legs, and gloves. Can't obtain the shoulders as ret is my off spec and quite a few people still need the shoulders main spec) or 391 Helm and legs + ret 2 set. Is the 4 set worth using over the 2 391's?Zorbing5 Nov 21, 2011
Nov 21, 2011 FL ready?(Holy) Hello, I am looking for some advice on whether or not you all think I would be able to heal FL normal fights. I realize I am still using a few PVP items still. Just transitioning from the full PVP set I had before to now mostly PVE gear. Also, any tips/pointers or improvements that could be made to my current gear is welcome as well. ThanksBlooddivine2 Nov 21, 2011
Nov 21, 2011 Swap avenging wrath and inquisition graphics? Our wings are a favorite spell visual and since most of us dislike keeping up inquisition it would be great if there was a non-dps related buff to keeping up with the hassle. This way we can keep up wings for the entirety of a fight. This would mostly benefit ret paladins so it could be a minor glyph or perhaps they could add some healing benefits to inquisition to make it worthwhile for holy. Prot uses it on AoE rotations and last I checked it was a small tps increase alternating it with SotR for those who want to squeeze out the little bit of extra damage. Just an idea of something fun that I think most fellow paladins would enjoy, aside from not having to use inquisition at all. Tyten11 Nov 21, 2011
Nov 21, 2011 2h weapon for ret offspec Hello everybody, I'm going to play ret a bit from now on, and I'd like to know if the PvP Ruthless 2h is better than the one im using (359 from nef), anyone?Lemmer1 Nov 21, 2011
Nov 21, 2011 EotEF or Apparatus I just got another Rag kill tonight and I switched it up a bit and paired my Vessel with EotEF this time. I usually pull 20-21k with Apparatus but with the the EotEF I pulled 22-23k, but sustained 24k into one attempt well into P3 with Apparatus. I've seen people say Apparatus is BiS and I've seen people say EotEF is BIS, both of course paired with Vessel. I'm just curious, does EotEF really come out on top even if you get the upgraded Apparatus? I just despise the RNG ramp-up time of Apparatus.Xenophaze2 Nov 21, 2011
Nov 21, 2011 check my gear please =D im just looking for someone to check out my gear see if im doing anything wrong i have been running through fourms and a bunch of different sites to see if its good now i think it isTaugrim1 Nov 21, 2011
Nov 21, 2011 Season 11 PvP Set Bonus? I heard that the set bonus for season 10's pvp gear is going to give us one holy power every judgement. Discuss.Unholyfarts10 Nov 21, 2011
Nov 21, 2011 Prot Rbgs I see everyone saying they would rather go with a warrior or a blood or even a druid over a pally tank, Why is a pally such a bad choice being a tank In a fc game? Besides the fact of getting across the field faster. I want too be a tank for Rbgs, are my goals tanking Rbgs as a pally too high? or is it possible to be a good pally tank for pvp. Also what gems should I stack? and should I go with full pvp?Honeybaked2 Nov 21, 2011
Nov 21, 2011 Paladins. Is that a sword? LUXURY! Is that a horse?! SLOTH! Is that a helmet???!! VANITYYossarion14 Nov 21, 2011
Nov 21, 2011 Defensive coodowns Hi guys, i'm kinda new at tanking, and i don't know when i should pop defensive CDs, and wich are the ones that i must use in each case. Regards.Phenryr2 Nov 21, 2011
Nov 21, 2011 Leveling As A Holy Paladin Hello Paladin forum! Recently, I started a Holy Paladin. I wanted to heal as a Paladin because they used to be so fun back in TBC. I'm having a lot of problems trying to adjust to the post-Cata world of Paladins. For instance, the fact FoL is not as efficient as it used to be is throwing me a curve ball. I'm not doing too well in these low level dungeons, so I fear I won't do any better once I get to the higher levels. Right now, I find myself not being able to keep up with the damage my tank takes. The 2.65 cast time of Holy Light seems to doom me. I have been using Holy Shock whenever I can, and then Word of Glory when it's ready at 3 HP. What really brought this to "light" (haha, punny), was Shadowfang Keep. When Lord Godfrey uses that pistol barrage, I just can't keep up with the damage my druid tank was taking. I could end up using FoL, but I burned through mana very quickly that way. Godfrey would use that spell twice per encounter, so I would almost always be OOM by the time that second shot came around. I have about 1000 mana at level 21. Am I on par, or am I undergeared? Any tips to helping me adapt to healing as a Paladin? I really haven't played seriously since TBC.Tranter6 Nov 21, 2011
Nov 20, 2011 PVP Holy? Any adjustments to the tree? Input?Aggronn9 Nov 20, 2011
Nov 20, 2011 Outlands tanking gear Level 60 now. I'm confused with what I should be rolling on for gear. I'm not seeing dodge/parry gear so I'm not sure what is considered tanking gear. It looks like early dungeons, plate gear has strength/agility/stamina and resilience on them. Its not until the mid dungeon range of outlands where strength/stamina gear drop with either crit or defense rating drop (this is tanking gear for sure but not a lot of drops with defense rating on it) Is it wrong for me to roll on strength/agility/stamina plus resilience gear? It looks like if I roll on any outland gear, my dodge/parry will slowly drop to 0/0. Is this bad or is having more health in outlands more important? TBH, I need help with priority stats for outlands. I just ran ramps, I'm in my pre TBC gear that has dodge/parry on it and the healer seemed challenged with keeping me up. I'm using divine protection and holy shield and wog as much as possible and my pulls are small. I'm not pulling groups upon groups. My health drops fast, I do have devotion aura on as well. Any help would be great thanks.Tarjå4 Nov 20, 2011
Nov 20, 2011 Divine purpose buffed from 15% to 25% what are your guy's thoughts on this?Bråveheart12 Nov 20, 2011
Nov 20, 2011 Is it me or is it them?? is it just me or does it seem like paladins dont put out as much damage as they use to... i find myself waiting for cooldowns just so i can put numbers on the board. or just to stay alive... and i dont know if its just me but their durability has gone down too. its almost like you HAVE to use all the crazy shields blizzard gave us... i love paladins, ive been a paladin since vanilla. Im just not satisfied with the damage and survivability we have as of now. im not saying make us OP im just saying when i see DKs and rouges and warriors doing over 4mil dmg in BGs and im trying to kill a Druid in bear form and it take 3 ppl to bring him down, it bothers me. I miss the ALL POWERFUL PALADIN!!! like it use to be.... just sayin. i think paladins are nerfed pretty hard right now. Anyone else thinking the same thing??Lithius15 Nov 20, 2011
Nov 20, 2011 Firelands! Just wondering, taking a look at my gear am I ready for Firelands? And if so, how far?Bloodyen6 Nov 20, 2011
Nov 20, 2011 Verigan's Fist and other unobtainables Verigan's Fist has an amazing and classic Paladin Warhammer look. It would be amazing if the model, especially the icon on the hammer, could be brought back for current and future paladins to enjoy. Anyone else have an old weapon they kept or wish they had that's no longer obtainable?Esandarius3 Nov 20, 2011
Nov 20, 2011 New Templar's Verdict effect? So, apparently TV is getting a new effect, what do you think it should look like?Arieus17 Nov 20, 2011
Nov 20, 2011 Hammer of Wrath nerf? I'm not really sure why they are nerfing the critical strike chance of hammer of wrath, wings is gonna be pretty useless without that, and ret pallies are pretty useless without wings. Yes hammer of wrath still hits for a decent amount but the crit nerf is gonna hurt ret very bad, Any ideas why they would do this? I hear theyre trying to get ret to not rely on wings and other cds, but it doesnt seem like theyre giving much of a buff to other things so that we wouldnt have to rely on the cds.Adrøck23 Nov 20, 2011
Nov 20, 2011 Light of Dawn directional trouble I understand that Light of Dawn is a frontal cone, and when trying it on a guildie that seems to be true. So why does the graphic shoot out to the left side? It's pretty confusing, I see pallys standing to the right of the raid so they can shoot light of dawn left, then it doesn't hit the targets they want.Tejay5 Nov 20, 2011
Nov 20, 2011 What are you Thankful for? My fellow Paladins, Thanksgiving is in less than a week. Let's be thankful for few days even if Blizzard hate us. So what are you thankful for? I'm thankful for all those frost mages who likes to eat me alive with smiles on their faces, because you make me play harder and make me stronger. I'm thankful for my guild, they are the kindest people I know in World of warcraft and gawd they are good players. I'm thankful for the Paladin forum community, because you all are helpful and scarcastic biznitchiesFluenz7 Nov 20, 2011
Nov 20, 2011 Lv90 ability (prot) Light's Hammer: A hammer of light flys straight out ahead of you for 50 yards for (ap*75% str/ mass of a humming bird + the diameter of the sun in millimeters) damage and (Thrall's max health / Lobster's Agi) in damage when it returns to you. All damage is increased by your weapon damage if you have a mace equipped. Damage formulas may change in final draft. get our weapon choice involved with our damage (since it does fit with the lore) much like some rogue abilities. Plus this would fit the Comic book Avengers idea that has been undertoned in paladins, avengers shield and teir 2.5 armor (come on it looks like Ironman)Soulrage2 Nov 20, 2011
Nov 20, 2011 Lost my Macros could use some Help So recently I decided for a change in pace and opted to do a character recustomization. What they don't tell you (or maybe I missed it in the fine print, who knows) is that doing so deletes all of your character's personal macros! I'm completely lost here - I made my tanking macros ages ago so I don't remember what they looked like, and can't seem to find anything remotely similar to the setup that I had on the usual sites. I'm also just not great at macros in general, so fixing it on my own is probably impossible. In short, this is a total disaster, because I rely on those macros to keep my hotbar under control, and without them I basically can't even play the game! My only hope is that maybe if I describe what the macro did someone here can maybe reconstruct it for me. So here they are: 1. The first macro did the following - it would alternate between Hammer of the Righteous and Judgment/Consecration/Holy Wrath until building up three stacks of Holy Power, then it would cast Shield of the Righteous. 2. The second is kind of a basic thing, but for whatever reason it isn't listed on wowwiki anymore - it casts all my buffs - Blessing of Kings, Righteous Fury, Seal of Truth, Devotion Aura - then resets to Blessing of Kings after a few seconds. 3. And finally, the last one handled mounting and dismounting. It would cast either an epic ground mount if the zone only allowed ground mounts, an epic flyer if it allowed flying, and pop Crusader Aura. when clicked a second time, it dismounted me and cast Devotion Aura. Any help would be tremendously appreciated - I just can't even play the game without those macros!Rosilocks4 Nov 20, 2011