Aug 11, 2011 PvP Trinket Recently i've looked at other ret paladin pvp trinkets and came across some using Apparatus of Khaz'goroth and Vicious Gladiator's Insiginia of Victory (proc trinket). Im curious as to why use the Apparatus? I understand that there is the base strength value which adds overall more damage. But with low crit rating would this trinket not take forever to stack up to lead to being available for a 5 stack on use with trinkets/CD's? Basically what i'm asking is why use the Apparatus of Khaz'goroth over the Vicious Gladiator's Insignia of Victory with its long ramp up time? How long does it take you to ramp up this trinket?Popmybuble5 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 Holy paladin question Chamalos2 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 Threat from dodge/parry? I'm seriously starting to think our guild's warlock is trolling me but... basically he started to argue with me that dodge/parry in some way generates threat. I've never ever heard of anything like this and off the top of my head the only things I think he could have confused it with would be reckoning, which is block only, although when I asked him about if that's what he meant he said that it wasn't, and then sanctuary, which is mana return, which I guess you could argue is indirectly threat, but not really given how little mana is an issue for us to begin with. He said it was in some patch notes at some point but I've never seen it and I read all the notes. I'm 99% certain that he's wrong, but who knows, maybe there was a change somewhere that was never mentioned, and was never implemented as any kind of tooltip or communicated. I can't possibly think of anything that could possibly boost threat through dodge/parry.Darthelmet6 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 Coming back to holy PVP I havent played in a while, what stats should I prioritize? Is mastery more useful then it used to be? Still worth it to reforge gear to spirit? I guess I'm going to grind the honor gear and hopefully start arena/RBGs.Mâson1 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 Ret DPS: The real story By now everybody has seen that now infamous graph that shows ret dps near the bottom of the dps pack and dead last among melee classes. However, the author of that graph freely admits that there is more to the numbers than meets the eye. Ret IS NOT as far behind as the graph would tend to show. I wanted to put this out there and beg for some sanity in these discussions about ret dps, and clarify some things that I don't think people understand about the data. The biggest thing to know about the graph is that it does NOT account for gear levels, it just drags together the averages of the top 600 parses for each spec, and then puts the data on a table. It is a fact that right now, compared to rogues and warriors, rets are not as high on the theoretical dps charts if each spec was played by a computer. This means that, in the best guilds where every player plays at near 100% capacity, ret pallies are being phased out in favor of these FOTM classes. That's how they do things, and it's how they win. However, this means that warriors and rogues will tend to have a lot more of the best gear than rets simply due to there being fewer of them at that level of gameplay, and it will push their numbers up, and the ret numbers down by contrast. This makes the gap between the specs seem much larger than it actually is. I think an even better example of this kind of artificially inflated divide is in the numbers for warlocks. Now, Destro is very, very far behind the other specs on that graph. Again, it's true that destro is the bottom of the three warlock specs, however, in the actual numbers department the gap is pretty small. It is large enough, however, that the highest end raiders will switch their spec to the best possible one in order to get the most out of their class. This is natural. However, these raiders, playing these specs at the highest levels, will naturally have more gear than your average destro lock who isn't into heroics yet. So you have a lot of affliction locks doing very very well on the top parses, and destro lagging far more than it would at equal gear and skill levels. Rets, of course, do not have other specs to switch into, so the divide is not as pronounced as it is with destro. The fact is: if you are that far behind other specs when playing your ret paladin: YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG. The biggest problem with ret's numbers right now is not that ret pallies are bad, it's that very small mistakes in gearing and rotation can lead to severe dps penalties. The solution is not to come here and beg for buffs, or ask for crazy things like making procs more predictable (doesn't that defeat the point?) and the removal of holy power, but to learn more about your class, get better at your rotation, and learn the fights (knowing when to move, when to switch targets, and when to use cooldowns to get the most benefit is a large part of being a successful melee dps in Cata content, regardless of class). Blaming your spec for bad dps is not an excuse that raid leaders like to hear, especially because you really are capable of doing competitive dps in a raid if you get better at your spec. Nobody ever improved by yelling at devs on forums that they don't read. The fact is, most of you do not raid at the kind of level at which ret pallies are truly being phased out for other melee specs. You're playing with semi-hardcore or casual guilds in which extra effort really does make all the difference. I would say that envelope-pushing rets in server first guilds have legitimate gripes about where they stand in relation to other melee specs, but for the rest of us, please, let's calm down and lend a little bit of perspective to this discussion. It's an important discussion, and it's one we should be having, but let's not let it get reduced to the level of "Ret dps is clearly broken, Blizz, make me the new combat rogue so people will take me to raids just because of my spec."Hammerlock38 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 Ret DPS (Heroic Ragnaros lol) At first I was like ... But now I'm all like ... Blizzard y u no give me sustained damage??Lobster52 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 Whats the point of Exp? I've always wondered whats the point of Exp cap, there are so many more important things a paladin should forge into like mastery, plus the SoT Glyph could be replaced with something better for dps. After all, I thought nothing can be dodged or parried if attacking from behind?Flamesburg5 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 Noobie Paladin questions im just coming back to wow and am wanting to play a paladin. i only played wow for a few months back in about 2007, so lots has changed since then. my questions are: 1) im going to be going totally solo. play time is sporadic between work and famliy, so grouping will be difficult. what talent tree should i put my points into? and how should i spend those points? 2) gear. what stats should i be looking for? example: stam over int, ot whatever. so what the order of the important stats would be great. 3) and lastly weapons. should i go with a 2-hander or 1-hand a shield? any other suggestions/tips anyone has would be greatly appreciated. any help for new pally would be great, thanks.Kertus5 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 AW + Zealotry? OK I keep getting mixed reviews... Some people say we SHOULD pop AW and Z together. Other paladins have told me NEVER pop them together? Which is it?Tomtanknheal20 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 Resil Set for FC Now that RBG has become a weekly regime, who's keeping their old PvP set and gemming resil as FC? I assume at most we'll be 4.5K resil?Speedlot3 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 Tanking Help Plz Hello, I recently started tanking on my paladin and I am taking so much damage it's insane. My bear has about the same gear level as my paladin (mabye worse), and takes WAY less damage. Healers are having to pull 12k hps in zul gurub/aman, I feel like I am geared and gemmed properly and I feel like I am using my cooldowns well, I don't understand why I take so much damage. If anybody can look at my armory or give me tips that would be appreciated. Thx in advance. Also I have no problem with aggro.Herculezz1 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 Rate me as a HOLY pally What am i doing wrong? i know i need a new trinket -thanksGalarick3 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 Horrible expertise and hit! ok so im a tank and i got 6 expertise and .88% hit.. so i read that you need these two in order to get more threat.. i know it's horrible... and im having a problem on how to cap these.. anyone got a suggestion?thanksAkosimalakas12 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 Need some tips on Holy PvP So I've only recently started gearing up for PvP , and as I love healing in PvP because it makes me feel like a gracious God saving a poor mans life(or woman), I need some tips. I noticed on the secondary gear, wrist/bracers/boots, there is one with spirit and one with mastery. Does mastery pull ahead for the short burst fight involved in PvP or do I generally still want a good amount of spirit? Gems. What am I looking for on these? Lastly what would you recommend as a good combo for 2v2s and 3v3s? Any other tips regarding Arena play or Rated BG's would be much appreciated. Side Note: Okay so why is there a PvE guide for each pally spec (even two for Ret), and a PvP guide for ret and prot (lolwut? O.O) but not holy. I am confuse D:<Asrian8 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 Ret PvP So what spells should i be prioritizing when PvPing? I find myself not casting anything half the time.. Any help is awesome :) Thanks!Cherwin7 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 Yes! Paladins vs. Zombies No! The main paladin is played by Milla Jovovich: Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 How is Ret atm? How is it without the tier set bonus? And with? I am bored of Holy/Prot, and want to try Ret, but I don't want to spend all the extra time if its dps is bad.Elewood10 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 Ret Reforging Priority OK, easily strength is priority #1 and then weapon damage min/max, but once Hit and Expertise are capped is the priority Mastery>Crit>Haste or Mastery>Haste>Crit or Crit>Mastery>Haste or Crit>Haste>Mastery? ...because I've heard all four. Makes me wanna try Haste>Mastery>Crit.Negrito4 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 Rets with Alts: Do you love tunneling Rets On my Warrior, I love tunneling Rets...especially with a dispeller stripping wings asap. :(Lawlbringer27 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 Ret 2t12 + pvp gloves vs 2t12+2t11 Just a Simple question. is it a bigger Dps increase to roll Legs/Shoulders t12 w/ Pvp glvoes for 5% Cs or Legs/Shoulders t12 + Chest/Gloves t11.Päddi3 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 Where to go now as Prot Well I couldn't really raid very hard at the beginning of Cata because of school and other things. So I got kind of behind on the raid progression. I feel I am geared for things like BWD and maybe parts of BOT, but everyone wants achieves and I don't have them. Should I just start my own group or keep trying to convince people I can hang?Chongbro1 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 Starting a new Pally Hey guys just wondering what you all think will be the best build spec-wise for a Prot Paladin? I'm thinking of going Holy as my secondary spec but I'll worry about that later on. Also, ideas for professions? what suits you guys? And just general tips on tanking I mean as of level 22 I haven't found it that hard but as I said I'm level 22 :P. Anyways any advice will be appreciated since I am still reletively new to the game, this being my 2nd toon. CheersGraftonov2 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 Tanking alysrazor My guild finaly had a good bash at her today, and both hatchlings were up still when p2 starts (blood DK and myself tanking) Now, the DK thinks he can get his down if he nails the rotation. I however, have some crazy ammount of health on mine. Is this just a gear issue, or is there something prot pallies are doing to fix this? I am using Inq where possible, but otherwise I am in my full prot set and specDoograwr10 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 11, 2011 rawr like haste for Ret? I see items that rawr wants me to reforge into haste for more dps. Why is this? I thought haste wasn't all that great. Thanks for your help.Ethenger2 Aug 11, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Need some Ret Advice Logs for my guild in our Fireland endevours, I pull respectable amounts on Beth and Baleroc, but fights like Shannox, and the important ones like Majordomo and Rag, my dps tanks. Never been much for mods, but recently downloaded CLCret, watching my rotations, optimizing gear and even prepotting. So I'm not sure what else I can do on fights like Domo and Rag Any advice would be appreciated.Paladinchaz4 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Macro driving me nuts!!!!! ... This is my primary macro to defend my partner. I play as a prot paladin, and I need this to keep my partner alive. Problems: It is erratic in what it casts first. Mostly it casts holy light first. So I reversed the order in the macro, but it still doesnt work. WTH is wrong with it? Same problem also with this macro: ... It used to work fine before the patch!Resmee10 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Holy Pally / Warrior I am running restoration druid/warrior in 2's. Probably every 4/5 losses is to Hpally/warrior comp. Is there anybody that can help me?Spliceit5 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 384 pvp Shoulder or reg T11..or just bash me. Would it be worth it to drop [item="inv_shoulder_plate_pvppaladin_c_02" /] for [item="inv_shoulder_plate_raidpaladin_i_01" /] and pick up [item="inv_helmet_plate_raidpaladin_i_01" /] For the 10% TV damage or is the lose 70 str off the set and the 80 str from the pvp shoulder for a total of 150 str a over all lose in dps. I have the tokens to get the head and shoulders but i don't want to waste them if there going to be a dps lose where i can just use them for my tank set :D. PS. My spec, Gems, Gear, and my Race is open for bashing so have it :D.Tankdoctor1 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Threat help needed I'm a casual tank, and I pretty much cringe whenever I see a dedicated raider enter ZA/ZG. I can't stop them, but I know I'm going to be losing aggro. My question is: "What can I do about it?" Does anyone have any tips? Maybe you can share how an average pull goes for you? Do I just need to get better gear? I'm just frustrated because every guide tells me to avoid expertise/hit like the plague and reforge it out whenever possible, while stacking avoidance to high hell. That's all well and good but now my Avenger's Shield flies around like a retarded UFO and sometimes I have to hit Shield of the Righteous 2-3 times just to get it to connect. While I'm asking for help, any other tanks feel this way?Mariette10 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Leveling as holy? So I've decided to start leveling my low level paladin alt again but I'm only interested in playing HOLY and plan on solo questing and instance healing on the side. Need some tips and success stories please.Amducious18 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Utility > Damage In the realm of pvp, you MUST be useful. If all you are is a damage trinket, then you can be ignored for the 1:40 you're not bursting. Ignored. Powerful word that. It means nobody cares about us for a very long time. Oh You're HoJ'd? Let me cleanse that for you. Seal of Justice? What does he think he's going to kill with that pitiful dps. Ignore him. Tunnel his healer and he can't do anything. Our insane burst can be dispelled, so people can ignore us. I would rather a peel of some sort. Rep. / HoJ don't count, they suck and can be dispelled. 1m CD sucks too. I challenge anyone else to say you can ignore a class entirely.Knilb10 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 CLCinfo Prot questions I was wondering if anybody out there had the lua code for the current prot rotation. (Sacred Duty) 3hp SotR > (No Sacred Duty) 3 hp Inq > (inq up and no Sacred duty) SotR > CS > AS > Hammer of Wrath (below 20%) >Judgement > HW > Conc) looking for the icon code for my current ability and next ability. Or even a link to some code so I can work from there to try to build it myself.Svenska0 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 New Paladin: ADVICE WANTED What spec do you reccomend for a casual player who quests alone? I do like to kill things my level fairly quickly. Can paladins damage match other classes, for example a warrior or dk? In end game raids do people look for more of the holy/protection paladins? Thanks for you're time! - Ro Olighter1 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 A Profession Question So, I'm going to make a new Paladin, that will be mainly Prot/Tank and Ret/PvP, but perhaps occassionally Ret/PvE as well. My question is, leveling from 1 to 85, then with endgame, which professions should I take? Only three I am considering and will consider are, Blacksmithing, Jewelcrafting and Engineering. Which two should I take? Money nor mining is an issue. On this DK I have BS/Eng, and he is a tank and pvp, while I have a warlock that is JS/Eng. I like the perks you get from Engineering, like the parachute cloak, Jeeves, the mailbox, etc. But is it really the best prof for a paladin tank and pvper? As far as gear/heirlooms, I only have the sword and trinkets for my paladin, but plan on getting the chest, shoulders, helm and cloak in the next few days. So would BS even be worth getting? Any help would be appreciated. As a side note, which shoulders should I get? I only plan on buying one, so should I get the dps, tank, or pvp shoulders? He will be a tank and do a lot of BGs, but I also plan on taking my time with this paladin and get Loremaster as well. ThanksKhasalianus8 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 My dps is awful, any help appreciated First, I am going from tank to dps (I have tanked our Rag kills) so my gear is mainly off pieces. I have studied the stickies, EJ and Youtube and practiced the rotations on dummies and in ZA/ZG. I have used I have downloaded and now use CLCret. My raid dps ranges from 12-14k on single target, movement fights like Shannox and Beth'tilac to about 30k on aoe trash mobs (in ZA/ZG it is higher). On the dummies, I generally do between 11-12k. I have no idea why it is so low, and am very frustrated. My dps gear is not good, but it isn't terrible either, I don't think. Any advice would be appreciated. Maybe even, "give up ret, you suck," though that would also make me sad.Parcival15 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Ret pally arena partner Im in the process of lvling my second paladin. Transfered to my brothers realm. He's got a feral and a blood dk at lvl 85 and is also in the process of lvling his pally (currently lvl 72). Were wondering what the best comp for us would be? The survivability on his blood dk is insane and the damage output on his feral is equally fantastic. But i was wondering if double ret would be viable?? I was thinking with the insane burst and the great off heals of the retadin we could potentially be a force to be reconed with. Then again i could be completely wrong. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! ThanksXile8 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 End Game Gears I got some free times to mix match some end game gears for fireland, while i am lazy to make an up at The reason i picked voracious maw is because of the Mastery > crit rating with apparatus when it stacks. The heroic vessel gives 435 crit rating at 5 stacks + 1422 = 1877 Haste: 8.6% - 1102 Hit: 8% Expertise: 16 Critical: 9.17% - 1422 Mastery: 18.56 - 1893 helm: voracious maw neck : Necklace of fetish shoulder: immolation pauldrons cloak : bladed flamewrath cover ( this patch sucks ) chest : immolation battleplate wrist : earth crack bracer main hand : sulfuras, the extinguished hand relic : relic of the elemental lords hand : immolation gauntlet belt : cinch of the flaming ember legs : immolation legplate boot : arachnaflame treads ring : obsidian signet of the avenger ring : alysrazors band trinket : Apparatus of Khaz'goroth trinket : Vessel of Acceleration There might be alternative route but, that's the least i could do for now. Trinthakiz1 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Old mannin' em'. You all know when someone is "old manning" you. "Back in my day...." etc. Old paladins, I call on you to old man all these kids. I'll start, and then other elderly can chime in. Back in my day, seals lasted 30 seconds. Also, when you would cast judgement, it would consume the seal. Back in my day, blessings lasted five minutes, and had to be cast on each player individually. Back in my day, there was no divine storm. Back in my day, prot paladins could seal twist seal of light and seal of wisdom to keep up full hp and mana while AoEing packs of 15 or more mobs. Yes, paladin AoE grinding. Now you add some.Propulsion48 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Will you help me choose a right healer,please Coming back from 2 years of break from WOW. I have gained interest in healing. I would like to mainly heal. I have level 80 Paladin, but Priest interests me. Should I level a from scratch or shall I keep leveling the Paladin. Priest looks fun with aoe heals etc, any advice would be apprciated. And which class is most needed and wanted healer in Cataclysm guilds? For race I think I will go with goblin or a cow. Thank you in advance for your reply.Rearview1 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Paladin Pajamas! This outfit makes me look like a mage or warlock. I threw in the lava spine ( don't worry i don't use it to tank) for good measure or to drive home the point. The look is kinda cool but Is it just me or does pally t12 forces tanks to get bigger shields?Atreus0 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Haste or Crit for Ret PvE? ok, been reading up from EJ and there are some conflicting results mastery is the best stat out of the three with raid buffs so we will leave that out but haste and crit are a bit confusing, there is no solid evidence leaning to each other, 1 sim says haste > crit, the other said crit > haste ive been looking at some pallies armouries from different high end guilds and some users here, when i found a few rets i got some mixed results, some of them have like 10-12% haste and reforge outta crit, while some of tehm forget abt it and have the usual 5-6% haste that they couldnt reforge and gone with mast/crit just looknig for some discussion abt it thxSoifonn9 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Biggest PvP Attack downtime. Paladins. I come begging a question. What is your biggest PvP attack? Your answer can be multifold and include different numbers for each spec, but basically I'm looking for about how much damage it effectively does, and how long it takes between repeating it. I plan on compiling your answers for the forums to see in one place.Knilb0 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Am I ready to tank heroics? Got all of my current gear a little while back and then quit playing my pally before I stepped foot in a heroic as a tank. Now I decided to come back and see if it was worth a shot.Kreemo1 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Holy pally weapon choice. So im still rocking normal Twilight hammer. would most of you agree that volcanospike, reforged out of hit would be a better option? More intel, over 300 more SP and only like 60 hit. upgrade i would think.Braydrel7 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Weird Ret Pally pvp gearing. So I've been seeing a decent rise in the number of pvp ret pallies who are specced ret, yet have a mix of Ret and Holy gear, usually giving them about 55k mana. Now I thought this was just a case of idiot Ret players, but lately I've been seeing people with pvp titles doing the same thing. Is this some weird pally pvp strat?Byniri3 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Rate the Paladin's Name Above You I'm bored and I see these forums all over the place, and if you want, go ahead and offer advice on how to better a said paladin. Lets change it up though, scale is x/100Celindar15 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 3v3 good ret combo I was wondering for what would be my best 3v3 combo so i can be more competive in pvpChurchills1 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Why you gotta be so hard! I was like um practicing my ret rotation on like one of those little dummies in Org and it was like soooooo hhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrddddddddd. I mean omg how many buffs do I need to keep up and not overlap and then hammer of wrath is used before 20% but then at 20% and you can't have zealotry up. The hole time it seems like 5 different things are procing all while you make sure you don't go past 3 holy power. Then if you forget to reapply Inquisition you loose. AH omg it's soo hard. I don't wanna do it. I wish paladins were just judgement and seal again. KiddingDaíry11 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Shackles of Light Matches the target's speed with the speed of the (ret) paladin. Even if we use it on sprinting targets, that still only slows them to 115% run speed if we're not snared. Might need to be a constant match for the duration so we can't hit them with it while snared, then hit HoF. Also enemy only, so we don't have dual HoFs. Sort of a spirit link snare, easy to use but with a lot of tactical options. It doesn't really gap close well, but I think it would help peel and help with uptime. Duration and cooldown would of course need to be balanced. Opinions, thoughts?Jalon2 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 wheres the racial mounts? so tauren and draenei both got racial mounts. why dont belfs or dwarfs? belfs kinda do but dwarfs should probably get a ram at this point.Angelslight9 Aug 10, 2011