Jul 22, 2011 Prot: threat increase from 1 pt reck to 2 I would like to know how big of an increase in threat you can expect by putting the 2nd point into reckoning. How significant is it? If someone has seen Theck's math or can do a calculation themselves, I would appreciate it.Visionquest2 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 Tier 12 Paladin Dresses We're being made to wear a skirt again. When was the last time that happened? Vanilla?Cbredbeard169 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 Fresh 85 Protadin: best JP items? Hi guys, just hit 85 and am looking at gear upgrades but haven't had a chance to research every possible boss drop in the game yet. Which JP items should I focus on first? Which will last the longest? I don't have a guild to run me through easier raids to gear me up quickly, my gear will be through lucky PUG drops mostly. Thanks for the help!Teranoid5 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 New Rebuke Animation Feedback ...ugh. I liked the roundhouse kick--I know not everyone did, but having it just be Hammer of Justice Part 2 is pretty cheap. Why did we lose a unique animation for a duplicate?Kibethe8 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 Ret Pvp Viability? Just a feeler to the Pally community. Is ret a bottom of the barrel class/spec in pvp now? I have a friend who runs Ret, and she consistently gets beat. She used to go 50% 1v1 vs most classes in Wrath and for the first couple months of Cata. Now, if it is 1v1 she will lose against almost all classes. She is fully Pvp geared, some S10 Arena, S10 Honor and 2 pieces of s9 arena gear (including the s9 arena weapon of course) Now It has got to the point that she is ready to drop her Pally (she has played a Pally since she started the game). She feels like she can't compete anymore. Is there an observation of Ret needing a serious buff? Do we think Blizz will be doing anything about Ret soon? Or is there an overall feel that Ret is fine so we should expect no additional attention to try and close the gap with other classes as DPS pvp?Nythe45 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 Fiery Quintessance trinket for Holy? I've never been lucky with trinkets in T11 and a sim my healing leader ran says that Fiery Quintessence is better than Core of Ripeness. I am now revered and can purchase Quintessance. I trust them but I must ask, this is a significant int loss and I've always been told that int is king, I do not have many mana issues as of yet so I don't see a need for spirit. An on use int gain would help with regen and throughput I'm sure but as much as the static Int off core of ripeness? As this is not my main and we do not run tier 11 anymore I do not have a choice of T11 trinkets and probably won't have Majordomo's given to me anytime soon. If anyone who knows what they're talking about can either put my mind at ease by recommending the upgrade or give me something to tell my healing leader contrary to his directions that'd be great.Tedst5 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 Ideas for Holy Paladins to AoE heal better Summary of Post for People who don’t read... Don’t troll without reading the rest of the post. The ideas proposed are indeed a slight nerf to ret and prot; but I’m concerned if you actual need this spell to survive. This post is in response to “Ask the Devs #11 Healing”, read the attached quote. Except for the finisher moves, Paladins can’t choose whether to single target heal or AoE heal. Holy Radiance is “fire and forget”, and can be used in the tank healing rotation (this shouldn’t be) Other classes have reliable group healing: Shamans = Chain Heal, Priests = Prayer of Healing Solution: Redesign “Holy Radiance” into a core rotation spell; an AoE “Holy Light”. (Remove CD, add a channelling time. Think of Hellfire + Penance) Create a new spell to generate holy power; an AoE “Holy Shock”. (Shares CD with Holy Shock, like Divine Storm vs. Crusader Strike) Original question from “Ask the Devs #11 Healing”. ... Redesigning Holy Radiance Retains some basics of the old spell: Heals all friendly targets within 20 yrds for XXX every sec Continues to diminish in effect for targets farther than 8 yrds, and each additional player beyond 6. All specs would see the change. (Holy would have talents to modify it) New Things: Channelled instead of being an active buff. (Think of Hellfire + Penance) Channelled for 3 sec, pulsing every sec (on par with Holy Light’s cast time; modified by “Clarity of Purpose”, reducing time between pulses) No CD (Becomes the core to a Holy paladins AE healing.) Other Notes: Takes more mana to activate than Holy Light. Since it’s a channelled spell, the paladin would remain stationary while in use. Haste reduces the time between pulses. Ideas for Modifying Talents Ideas: Basically any talent that modifies “Holy Light” would affect this spell in a similar way. “Speed of Light” talent in the holy tree could allow you to move while channelling; like a Demo Lock. (With possible speed limitations so it’s not OP.) This would allow for better positioning since “Holy Radiance” diminishes in effect on targets that move.Stonedrake4 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 Range silence by paly? Yesterday, playing on my 62 mage, I got interrupted and silence at least 3 times by a pally who was further than melee range. Is it not like only rebuke can interrupted and silence but only from melee range? Am I imagining things ? (I don t think so but everything's possible!!!) Is it possible that some people did nt install patch 4.2 ? Is cheating possible ? Tks for your answers.Pranaly13 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 Holy pally trinkets Okay so i have three trinkets the core of ripeness the vibrant alch stone and the Fall of Mortality but im not sure which two to use together. thanks for the help in advanceAnarisa0 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 I cant decide on my OS Ret or prot. I love them both. (I love them all <3) However, I cant decide which one I'd like to do more. Are Ret pallies still competitive DPS endgame? If not, tanks are always in demand. I'd hate to go Ret only to have the same problems as locks vs mages. Pressing more buttons to do just the same damage.Anathela10 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 Protection Paladin UI help (rotation) hey i just started playing prot pally again and i would like help with my UI so i need help with knowing what spells to cast like roation etc.......i strugle on knowing which spells to pick next or what to use my holy power on........plz helpAlielle5 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 First Time Paladin Tank (All-Around Noobie) Hey Guys, So just out of nowhere I decided I wanted to make a draenei paladin tank. I've been following the proc 101 guide on these forums for talent distribution and basic attack order. It's been working pretty but I'm beginning to realize that I need better gear!! I really don't know what to do though because this is one of my first characters so I don't have much Gold. I'm basically picking up Gold from quests and leveling. I tried doing a dungeon for the first time today and that did not work out well AT ALL. I couldn't tank very well at all and ended up leaving. So my question is: what should I do? Do I keep leveling or should I finally go out and start trying to look for new gear now? And if so, where? What do I do? Thanks for the help in advance.Dralius4 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 Dispell protection for wings Seriously. I honestly believe teams should actually have to chain CC to nullify ret's burst damage, rather than just spamming the dispell button until wings go away. If not complete dispell protection, any kind of incentive for dispelling wings would be nice. Am I the only one that thinks this way? I did plenty of arenas as enhancement last season, and I died a little inside every time I purged a paladin's wings. It just feels too easy. Even with the increased mana cost to dispells. Gravestorm2 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 Ret Paladin/Frost Mage I know I know 2's lulz but does this comp still work decently well? Strongpoints? Weakpoints? What's a reasonable rating for this comp?Ascendant0 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 Why is prot pvp considered dead? I have not tried it, but it looks like you could survive forever and deal decent damage. Or am i wrong? Plus shield with glyph can do aoe slow. Can someone give me an in depth clarification?Susann5 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 Blood knights! Let's see your RP setup. Here's mine.Propulsion20 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 ret paladin DPS help My DPS is struggling I DPS an average around 8.9k-9.5k DPS. Any Ideas How I can improve my DPS I think I am well geared if that matters. For my rotation I just click whatever is not on cool down. And when I have 3 holy power I would hit Inquisition if it is on then every time art of war procs I immediately hit exorcism 3 holy power I hit Templar verdict. I would also pop avenging wrath on bosses and cast hammer of wrath every-time it is on. With zealotry I would hit my trinket 1k strength then spam crusader strike and Templar verdict back and forth until zealotry is done. My Skada DPS meter always show my DPS around 8.9k-9.5k DPS I think I have fairly good gear but still lack DPS. Any ideas or tips for help. Check My Armory.Xanaths4 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 Ret paladin vs hunter Should equally geared and skilled hunters beat ret paladins most of the time? I'm interested in playing a paladin, but it seems like too many classes are able to kite them.Koholint14 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 PvP 4PC Isn't -1second on judgement a little outdated considering it does like 2k-4k dmg and LaoTL has a deadzone? Change time???Hallvaror1 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 Obviously ret is perfectly fine! 142k world of glory, nuff said Nawtprot24 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 The Return of Athene. Words can not describe my excitement. Ais27 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 HPally questions Good morning to you fellow healers, So, I've started seeing the light and playing a holy paladin recently. Couple of nuances have come to my mind. 1) I cast LoH on a tank that is about to die, only to see him die and the LoH to be cast on myself, who is at full health. Now, clearly this is a lagg and reaction time issue at my end, however is there a macro or similar that will only allow LoH to be cast on the target and not on myself if that target is dead? 2) I'm after a one stop shop button for Judging. What do you fellow Pallies do w.r.t. judging while healing? Do you tab target then judge and reselect your target? Do you have a macro that targets your targets target, judges, then switches back to your original target? Or do you have a target focus macro? Ideas/Solutions would be greatly appreciated. - SkySkypig9 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 Zealotry is there a way to make a macro so that whenever I try to cast Templar's Verdict my char will also try to cast Zealotry? and if Zealotry isn't up I would like to still cast TVSpidar5 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 "Communion" Talent Description-- Confusing! The Retribution Paladin talent description for "Communion" is confusing as written. The problem is in the second part of the description, regarding Replenishment. It reads: ... 1% of their max mana per 10 seconds, lasting 15 seconds? Does that mean they get 1.5% of their max. mana over 15 seconds? If so, why not just say so? If not, then what does this mean? Also, that seems like an insignificant amount of mana-- but I guess that's a different discussion. Sorry, as a new Ret Pally, this is really confusing to me. Thanks for any help clarifying this for me!Braghan2 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 Ret Paladins Who are the other top Retribution Pallies? Surely there cannot be only one that comes to mind, and who I am speaking of is Vanguards. This is about PvP Ret's btwAzqua15 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 light of dawn shoots sideways ever since patch 4.2 came out, my light of dawn shoots sideways, but still heals people directly in front of me. has anyone else run into this problem? any suggestions on how to fix it?Randymarsh12 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 Profession choices I'm currently, and typically, miner (525) and blacksmithing (511). I'm having a problem finding gems on my server. Specifically Fine Ember Topaz. Should I drop blacksmithing and loose my two socket bonuses I get with it for jewelcrafting? I think I would make more money in jewelcrafting, plus being able to have the gems I need, when I need them. What about dropping mining, although I loose the stamina bonus, and have an alt pickup mining? Leaving me with Blacksmithing and Jewelcrafting? Discuss please.Berrik6 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 White Elephant Game List the ability(s) you would give up to gain another. 1. Bubble and repentence for a 40% snare 2. Gap Closer-like(Intercept,Charge,DG) for all healing abilities for Ret/Prot spec.Speedlot13 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 Healing Tol Barad Anyone have any tips for healing TB as a Pally? I'm a PvP noob so even basic advice would be helpful.Dabrin5 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 22, 2011 Stay Ret or go Holy? My ret gear isn't the best right now obviously but i could be working on it. But before i keep going on as a Ret pally I was thinking about going holy. What do you guys think Ret or Holy? I enjoy Ret right now (kinda) but i played holy back in wrath I know its a lot different now so any suggestions would help.Madixx5 Jul 22, 2011
Jul 21, 2011 Visible librams. It's been said before, but we should address this again. It wouldn't be that hard to implement really, just take some of the offhand books and put them on a chain that hangs somewhere, and give it some movement physics. Eezy peezy, Bleezy. (It's pretty simple, Blizzard.) Propulsion0 Jul 21, 2011
Jul 21, 2011 Ret PvE trinkets 4.2 So i have gotten Apparatus recently, also i have LtS or HoR(non-heroic). I am wondering which is better. I'm thinking HoR because of the decent amount of Strength proc but I'm not sure if it beats the 380 Strength for basically the whole fight unless it rolls off of course.Lolibubble0 Jul 21, 2011
Jul 21, 2011 having trouble on 10man normal Alysrazor I'm having trouble killing the bird add in phase 1 of the normal Alysrazor encounter in firelands. My other tank is just as geared as me without the tier 12 2 piece and he's not having a problem killing the add. I have a shadow priest helping me the whole time on mine and were killing it just as phase 2 starts... I'm mashing my rotation as its up using AW as much as i can... Only thing the other prot pally has that i don't is Eye of an Eye talent.. i don't think that would make the difference in the fight... any tips or anything would be awesome =) Jul 21, 2011
Jul 21, 2011 Denounce in pvp. Haven't played holy in pvp for a few months and I see they change what it does. How useful is it in arena? Is it worth dropping points out of something for it?Healsformoo3 Jul 21, 2011
Jul 21, 2011 When to break the T11 4pc (and 2pc) I have been messing around with RAWR and looking around for the definitive answer on this, but RAWR seems shaky at the moment and generally the answers are for elite players in heroic T11. When do we break our i359 T11 4pc. Is it T11 4pc until you have 2 T12 pieces for an instant T12 2pc and T11 2pc. Or are we considering the PvP 2pc again, with the i384 PvP pieces having so much more str than the i359 items. Is it a DPS boost to break the i359 T11 4pc for i384 PvP 2pc. And then when we get the T12 2pc do we then use that and i384 PvP 2pc or i359 T11 2pc until we get the T12 4pc? TLDR (or are confused by poor english) What order do you put these possible combinations for upgrades allowing for stats and set bonuses: i359 T11 4pc i384 S10 2pc and i359 T11 2pc i359 T11 2pc and i378 T12 2pc i378 T12 2pc and i384 S10 2pc i378 T12 4pcZamm12 Jul 21, 2011
Jul 21, 2011 Reaching the 1.8 second cast time with HL/DL Hey folks, i was just curious if any of you kind folks know the exact haste requirement to reach 1.8 second HL/DL cast times. I have recently replaced my helmet from V&T and have once again gone above my 1.8 second cast time, which i'm not quite fond of. I'm just looking for ways to find tune my character in such a way that i can get at exactly the 1.8 cast. This is of course including Judgement buff as well as 5% spell haste buff.Tylerand16 Jul 21, 2011
Jul 21, 2011 need advice with ret dps. i get up to 20-22k dps in a fight when i use my cooldowns, starting with guardians till 20 stacks, at 3hp hitting zealotry & inquisiton, and popping wings at 20 stacks and hitting the lovely glowey buttons, but once my cooldowns wear off my dps drops down to like 11k :( how can i manage my dps better after my cds wear off?Pallyheal4 Jul 21, 2011
Jul 21, 2011 Fresh 85 Hey all I'm a pretty fresh 85, as i gear up and do dailies for faction rep it seems like i am really squishy. I can't take more than 1 mob at a time and between each one I am done to about 50% health before I kill the mob. Is this normal for a fresh ret?Shamwowdin0 Jul 21, 2011
Jul 21, 2011 Discussion: Ret Paladin PvP trinks. So I've seen it done a lot of different ways. Humans generally get a trinket that has a passive str gain and use a dps trink such as Darkmoon card or Apparatus. I've been thinking about doing a second resil pvp trinket but idk. What do you guys think? Passive on hit str gain and a dps trink? Or do you think I should get a resil battlemasters?Affis0 Jul 21, 2011
Jul 21, 2011 H. Pally Glove Enchant Hello! I have always been told INT is the best stat for us, for two reasons: it gives us a bigger mana pool and spell power. That being said, would it be bad to enchant my gloves with 28SP versus 50 haste - or even the 65 mastery?Avy5 Jul 21, 2011
Jul 21, 2011 Help with my logs hey guys, if you got a minute could some good hpallys take a look at my logs and see if you see any areas I could improve? Thanks! Jul 21, 2011
Jul 21, 2011 Want some feedback on Prot please I've been working on my prot set, and my question is just this ... will some lovely talented prot pallies out there give me some feedback on what I have so far and what I can change to make it better and so forth? I know my shoulders are more dps shoulders (I reforge them for tanking and back for ret and they are still in ret state right now) I'm not a raider at all so I'm either watching the AH or running the Troll places as Ret to get the shoulders from there. (Yes I'm too scared to tank those places cause I've gotten flack from just bad pugs so much I've lost most any confidence I had to try). Thats another one of my problems I worry so much I'm taking too much damage, yet my stats seem to be roughly on par with a lot of other prot pallies. Also loathe to do Tol Barad dailies but I know I have to get at least one of those trinkets so I do know I need gear replacements. With all that said, I would love some input from ya'll :)Tankshortage2 Jul 21, 2011
Jul 21, 2011 Ideas for ret These are mainly for pve, but probably wouldn't hurt for pvp either. All of my numbers concerning damage are mainly examples, the mechanic is more important and is all I'm really trying to get across. Remove inquisition, or change how it's activated. It makes the spec incredibly clunky and causes ret to have huge ramp up, and while I like having more then just TV for Holy Power use, keeping Inquisition up annoys me due to how long it can take to get 3 holy power. It's a hard thing to tackle, we don't need another CD, and making it a 30 min buff would just be lame. So here's my idea: -With this change a baseline damage increase would probably be needed. Inquisition: Instant, 2 min. CD. Increases all holy damage done by 15% for 30 seconds. That's it. But, to accompany it: Inquiry of Faith now causes Templar's Verdict to add 1 seconds duration to Inquisition per Holy power, in addition to reducing it's CD by 20, per point. So Inquisition would be a 1 min CD, and TV would add 9 seconds to it per use. The fact that without Inquisition our DPS drops substantially is, well, annoying. Reducing our reliance on a clunky activated damage buff would be a huge thing for ret, and this way Inquisition won't be totally OP for Prot, the main reason I wanted a damage reduction to it and an overall increase to ret damage. Now, as for our filler and ranged situation, my ideas for this is: New spell: Templar's Judgement: 30 yard range: Consumes Holy Power to deal 50/100/150% weapon damage. This, in addition to; Long arm of the law now causes Judgment to grant 1 charge of holy power when used at more then 15 yards. Being at range should be detrimental to a melee class, however this would allow us to do something in times like Atramedes' flight phase, and wouldn't be totally overpowering, assuming it was balanced. And the final change; our fillers in between CS. No one likes sitting there for 4 seconds waiting for CDs, so: Exorcism would make a fine non-CD filler. My idea: Glyphed exorcism now causes like, 2k damage on use, but adds a DoT that ticks for a decent amount, stacking up to 3 times. When the DoT is at three stacks, Exorcism does increased on hit damage. Give it a mana cost so we can't spam it for fear of ooming, but can use it 2-3 times in a row without going oom. Art of war procs make exorcism hit fairly well, and increase the damage the DoT does for a certain amount of time. This gives us something to watch and pay attention to, another button to press at range, and allows us to do something in between CS when everything is on CD. Thoughts?Msi2 Jul 21, 2011
Jul 21, 2011 Ret Needs Help for PvP Ok so i've been looking at high rated ret pallys and there actually very different so i have no idea whats the best thing to do. I personally think my gear and everything is ok but I'd like some other to look at it and maybe give me some tips or what gems i should get? I heard a lot about some Ret's going Mastery stacking, I don't really know why but the Ret's who are are 2200 ratings. I took a look at Yoggy....Hope you all know who that is and yoggy actually didnt Gem Mastery and actually had some expertise which blew my mind because i dont know why a ret whould want that. yoggy is like 2700 rating in 3's so dont bash please if you think thats stupid. For my blue gems i put Str/Stam gems in because i wanted the strength and sokcet bonus but i didnt know what to put in it. If anyone can look at my gear and tell me what i should do to get in those 2200 Brackets i will be very grateful. I know how to PvP i don't need help on what attacks to use and stuff like that, just Gear and stats i get very confused about so if some one may help i will appreciate it so much ~Thanksss XD Edit: I will be back on later tonight (5 hours), and i will check this, hopefully some posts are here :)Vyre12 Jul 21, 2011
Jul 21, 2011 Stealth Nerf? Talking with another Ret Pally buddy of mine, and we both have noticed that since Tuesday, we've seen a drop in our overall DPS, in groups and while questing. I checked over the changelogs in the patch notes, and haven't seen anything, just wondering if there's anyone else noticing this, or if it's just me.Steelhand7 Jul 21, 2011
Jul 21, 2011 Ret Pally Snare (Part II) This is a continuation of the previous thread on the subject that has capped. The original can be found here: While I do not agree with the original poster's idea, myself and many other Ret Paladins alongside other players believe a snare mechanic would allow Retribution to break out of melee cleaves and properly synergize with casters in Arena and other PvP situations. Additionally, I believe it would allow the spec to face certain ranged classes on more equal footing, as it's lack of a snare leads the forementioned specs to counter Retribution too well to be considered balanced. If you wish to comment, please try and keep the discussion civil and constructive, even if you don't agree with the basis behind it. Thanks and have a great day!Andarin213 Jul 21, 2011
Jul 21, 2011 Am i ready for raiding? (ret) what gear should i replace next?Hospice12 Jul 21, 2011
Jul 21, 2011 Mastery Good For Holy Paladins Come 4.2? I've been told by a Holy Paladin on my server that Mastery is now a good attribute for Holy Paladins now that Illuminated Healing stacks? Post your opinions and suggestions for stat priorities here.Bamfadin5 Jul 21, 2011
Jul 21, 2011 What is the best way to get more dodge I have been trying to keep my dodge and parry the same number, but some recent gear upgrades have skewed my numbers. Defense Armor 35466 Dodge 11.61% Parry 15.56% Block 50.20% I did tank one troll heroic ok, but would like to be able to be better and not have so many wipes. Which gear is more imporant to get first? I need another TB trinket, but I just spent my points on the Mirror of Broken ImagesGerthel24 Jul 21, 2011
Jul 21, 2011 If only ret had one more HP generating move. It would be a lot more fun. I'm leveling a new pally as a shockadin, and with HS and CS generating HP, I have two HP in two seconds. That two HP is enough for an OK TV. If ret had just one more HP generating move, it'd be fun to play, cause then the rotation would be Judgement>CS>The other HP move>TV>Dead mob. As it stands, to get HP you have to use CS, wait 6 seconds, and use CS again.Velira10 Jul 21, 2011