Apr 7 Frost Vs Arcane, Why do i suck at frost? So.. Title says it all... When i go to PvP, Im not good at frost it seems, but I do much, much better with arcane. I find displacement, and two Blinks, much more effective and mobile with arcane, than what frost has to offer..... I know its always, play what your good at, not what is "in that month".. But i really want to be good at frost and ive read guides but cant figure out why the Damage, and my mobility isnt there when i play frost spec.. However, when i get 4 arcane charges in pvp, its like...... watch out cause your dead.... And with a constant charge of 2 blinks, not just 1, plus displacement I can constantly out run, and out-perform.. Now with frost, I feel like in a 2v2 particularly, I am CONSTANTLY running, so i can never get any decent damage off, because NOTHING procs... Where with arcane, one arcane blast, already does the damage of 5 frost bolts, if my other things are on cd' with frost. Ive had a friend, tell me he got to 2.4k with arcane last season, and that its more mobile than frost, and people are just so stuck with "frost is the only pvp way". So what my main question is, what am i missing. Why is frost so much better than arcane for PvP, what is everyone realizing that im not? My mobility with frost seems non-existent if a melee can manage to get close enough, especially a warrior who has 2 charges, and then just clips my movement speed.Màkjuice3 Apr 7
Apr 7 Frost Mages in 7.2 I switched to Frost when 7.1.5 came out, as I always loved the spec and the mechanics, but it was always at the bottom in DPS. But now, I truly believe that Frost is perfectly tuned and doesn't require any major changes or any nerfs to our abilities. The only thing many are discussing about, is of course double ice lancing. Some consider it unfair and that it should be removed, but some achieve very high dps, especially because of them. I've seen some great suggestions on how to fix that and maybe Frost Mages could NATURALLY fit two ice lances into the Winter's Chill debuff? Everyone could maintain their good dps easily, without dancing around 5-15 yards, or just have no idea on how to do it and then underperforming. Post your opinions, if you believe there are any other things that should be changed about Frost in 7.2.5, and your stance on the double ice lancing.Kharneus8 Apr 7
Apr 7 What PvP spec do you prefer? For arena and what one for bgsRetallìca5 Apr 7
Apr 7 Big difference between RoP and IF ? As I am looking to improve my dps, I am wondering, maybe I am not used to play arcane enough and I should go IF instead of RoP... is there a very big difference between the two? On warcraft log, I can see some good arcane mage (well better than me anyway) using IF...Waddell4 Apr 7
Apr 7 Can't 2x ice lance: will it still be good? I've been having a hard time doing a double ice lance. Maybe it's just me or my latency affects me from doing it? Im always playing at 250ms (home) 260ms (world). Will frost still be good without double ice lancing?Forestgump15 Apr 7
Apr 7 Questions about Koralon's Burning Touch So after getting 4 utility cross spec legendaries I finally looted my first real dps legendary as Koralon's Burning Touch. I get the point that its supposed to make scorch almost a replacement for fireball when under 30%. However the scorch doesn't travel and that's making me eat up procs. For example, normally I would fireball into pyro and then be casting fireball and see if I got a HS or HU and fireblast if necessary and continue. But when i scorch into pyro and i start casting my second scorch I notice that if the pyro doesn't crit then the HU proc gets munched. I'm also uncertain where to use fireblast. I tried to scorch, fireblast, pyro but that was slowing down the rotation and I'm not sure that is the optimal way to do it. I tried looking online but I could not find much help. Can someone please explain exactly how my rotation should be in detail including how to use fireblast and pyros. My guild is progressing into mythic Nighthold and I want to be at the top of my game at that time. Thanks, Fellow Fire MageZarkafor6 Apr 7
Apr 7 WTF blizzard fire mages... What have you done still we are low on the DPS for single target and aoe to many classes under geared beat us out. Yes you will say go play arcane hey up yours you know what 3 expansions same crappy spec I have to switch to. This expansion is all about artifact weapons which take a ton of work time etc and to go switch to another spec isnt as easy. The gear drops do not give towards what it means to be a fire mage. You give us crap statistics that just dont cut it. And dont even get me started on the PVP which why do we keep our HP and all other classes get a HUGE Boost? WTF I think this will be my last expansion as your dev group keeps doing the same !@#$ over the years and you keep compounding the details with same old same old. Bring in a new class and you cant even fix the current ones. You have made this game into a bloated messDrakuul23 Apr 7
Apr 7 Fire,Frost or Arcane? What is the better spec for raiding since 7.2? I noticed a decrease in fire DPS and I wanted to get other peoples opinions on the optimal spec for raiding atm.Karmakey10 Apr 7
Apr 6 AMR tells me 600k.. not even close Hey guys ! Ask mr Robot is telling me I should be doing 600k dps and I'm am struggling to do 500k, usualy 450 at the end of a long fight.. I open with: 4 arcane blast trinket MoA RoP AP PoM arcane blast and arcane missile to be sure not to top AM proc then evoc and go on conserve phase and cast MoA and trinket as soon as they are up with RoP Am I missing something ??Waddell8 Apr 6
Apr 6 frost mages dead after the ToS? i was wondering about that, after watching this video, arcane will be the top 1 dps Apr 6
Apr 6 Fire Mage - For Shame Blizz What an absolute disgrace this spec has become. Not only has blizz gated its subpar performance behind 2 key legendary items.But now they've also made it harder for those wanting to escape these terrible design decisions behind ever more horrendous legendaries and artifact power mechanics For shame...Wizud7 Apr 6
Apr 6 Best Spec ATM? Just got back into WoW and decided I would role mage as I don't really like Shadow Priest anymore. What is the best spec for lower ilvl and top tier raiding?Bjorde10 Apr 6
Apr 6 casting latency issue? So since the 7.2 patch my dps has actually gone down. I now have 42 points in my ebonchill and it has still not picked up. I noticed that i am simply not casting as many spells in the same time frame as i use to. It doesn't seem like my haste stat has gone down or anything. It really just feels like my casts aren't going off as quickly anymore. Even when spamming icelance it goes off slowly. It feels like there is lag at the end of a cast that wont let me cast the next spell for a split second. It is just a split second but it adds up. It has to be some sort of latency problem but has anyone else noticed anything?Ashthorne9 Apr 6
Apr 6 Best race for a Frost Mage (Horde)? Good evening. I'm planning to roll a mage, and going for frost. I was just curious, if any of the remaining racials would be a boon to this class spec choice? Thank you for your time and consideration.Ridinshotgun15 Apr 6
Apr 6 6th fire appearance is disappointing. Anyone else feel like the new fire artifact appearance was phoned in? The standard four all have a fiery feel to them, and the hidden is still unique in its own way (and, in case of tint 3, also has a fiery feel). But the new one? It's just Generic McSword Type 4B. It doesn't feel fiery. It doesn't look unique. It looks like something they copied from a few expansions ago. It looks like something a fighter would use, not a spellcaster.Manabender20 Apr 6
Apr 6 Ray of frost in pvp so its pretty deep dampen. me and my dps line to recover and all the sudden ferals getting ticked for 350k a second through a pillar. Can you stop that or how to counterplay thatSfscxpaladin1 Apr 6
Apr 6 Arcane Mage guide? Hey all! Haven't posted here on the mage forums yet but I recently leveled up my mage and geared her up a bit. I had a few questions and I was looking around and didn't see any kind of guide. Maybe I missed it, apologies if so. Is there a discord/guide somewhere? I looked at Icy Veins but heard it wasn't the best for certain classes so I wasn't sure if that was a good place to start. Any help is appreciated as I start doing raids and such. Thanks! I used to play Arcane in WotLK/Cata/end of WoD so I am not totally new. Just wanted to find the most up to date information.Emidi7 Apr 6
Apr 6 Relinquished Trinket (fire) .. Got this... So it says i get a trinket for a fire mage.. I got Moonlit Prism It has haste and speed... I thought fire mages want crit !!!! .. :(Gervleth2 Apr 6
Apr 6 Imagine.. a WoW where Blink actually worked 100% of the time. I was just thinking about it today for some reason. I mean besides all the other stuff that's wrong with mages right now.. How blink never consistently worked since vanilla.Lilianâ15 Apr 6
Apr 6 [Overpowered] + [time anomaly] Overpowered doubles the bonus of 30% to 60% so when time anomaly procs, the tooltip says 45% higher not 60. Does anyone know if these two effects are together.Arostu1 Apr 6
Apr 6 Rememberance of frostfire graphic change Change the graphic of flurry/frozen orb to frostfire when you have frostfire apperance chosen Would be awesome.Zalmiran0 Apr 6
Apr 6 chain reaction (frost in) im arcane main and ive been trying frost lately and i really love its mechanics. With our main damage output relying on finger of frost, chain reaction buffs that damage a lot - 60% with 3 stacks, but only within that time period which is 6 sec. generating and popping our whole set of fof requires much more time than 6 sec so a well set-up can buff at most 3-4 fof. extending it for most damage output is almost impossible. for example during that 6sec u throw 2 ice lances out, followed by a frost bolt hoping ur 30% crit chance (mine - not high enough) can extend it by another 6 sec, not impossible but with a pretty low chance. If it doesnt crit u wasted the time for 2 more icelances during the 6s. However by doing this, since the set-up burst is mostly used together with rune of power, if the frost bolt doesnt crit u suffer even greater damage loss. to maximize the use of chain reaction is real clumsy and hard to achieve. If blizzard can buff it to 10 sec, that is a pretty big buff and adds more depth to the spec (like it's not deep enough). if u wanna extend the duration of chain reaction please extend the duration of frost bomb too. but i doubt blizzard will give more buff to frost given by what they say about hurting other's feeling. I feel being cheated when blizzard promises to make all specs viable. What about my feeling huh?Fuyumaho3 Apr 6
Apr 6 Frost mage challenge Hi all, here is what i learned about the challenge that might help or motivate those that have not bothered.. 1) The only talent outside the usual tv build that is mandatory is artic gale... if you have the legendary for it, use it. 2) use your dps legendaries.. incoming damage is a non issue... if you get hit you die.. the shadowbolt damage is tickling at best 3) ilvl requirement.. id say the benchmark is being able to inturrpt the hands and burn them down before they cast again.. if you can do that.. you can do this challenge 4) mechanics: kite everything.. inturrupt hands at the end of the cast and kill them (while kiting) i would make a target macro for them as they are hard to see... demonic portals.. these you have to close.. they are hard to see even tho there is an announcement. 5)abilities ; blizzard will be your best friend.. adds are rootable.. so save nova for emergencies..DO NOT EASTE AN INTURRUPT ON THE BOSS.. save it for grasping hands. Keep frozen orb pretty much out there as much as you can. Also the trait for instant blizzard is pretty much mandetory. Overall it feels very doable.. im pretty close only about 10 attempts in.. its a long fight snd the lower ilvl you are the less mistakes you can make.. Happy hunting!!Malms6 Apr 6
Apr 6 The God-Queen's Fury At the moment, the Arcane challenge seems to be impossible to complete without having access to Prydaz or Belo'vir's. According to a mage on the discord, they were able to complete it after 12 attempts using these two legendaries as they essentially mitigated all damage in the encounter minus one shots. In order to down them, he ran: Amp -> Slip -> IF -> CU -> CS -> Ersn -> OP His rotation was mostly just a full aoe rotation: try to AE all 3 targets together as often as possible, use AM procs to push past ancient knowledge checks with AP, and try to keep double slow up from Chrono Shift and Slow. He did confirm that it is most likely impossible to complete without these legendaries now however, as the healing orbs given by the val'kyr stop at 60% of the bosses health. It looks as though those of us without the defensive legendaries will need to wait for better gear, to have higher dps to down it. Unless you have perfect execution, it won't happen for a little while. Be patient!Caelîn37 Apr 6
Apr 6 Frost vs fire/arcane aoe. With the release of night hold coming out I have seen a drastic change in mages switching off fire due to the nerfs. Now that frost is considered the best single target now one plays fire or arcane unless you have to for mythic plus... Can frost mage get an aoe buff so that it is more viable instead of only raids? Arcane and frost seem to be behind on aoe compared to fire. So in theory fire is still the best overall spec. That is fine, I just feel frost falls behind in m+.Throwdots11 Apr 6
Apr 6 reasonable (pvp) change for comet storm Should comet storm has some sort of stun effect? I feel mage can play a lot more comps if we can just have someone sit there for few seconds. For a last tier talent, it doesn't do much damage so i think comet storm can/should have 2~3 seconds of stun. The Whole problem with deep freeze was about Guaranteed CC and Free brainless lancing. No CC or Neither would become a problem. No CC can be done under Comet storm or Free lancing. Plus it's comet storm. it's suppose to have some stun affect. Comet storm is boring and not strong enough for a last tier talent. Increasing the damage is not necessary but atleast have some special ability effect. Right now comet storm is just a "good looking" skill......:( Just a thought.Furryfurry24 Apr 6
Apr 5 Fire DPS is SOOO OFFF blizzard do something about this.Sheatwitch22 Apr 5
Apr 5 [Mage Tower] Raest & Sigryn Hey guys feel free to add any info on these two encounters. I keep getting to the second part of the Raest encounter and still trying to figure out what exactly to do there. Any info or tips would be great!Meibae23 Apr 5
Apr 5 Lonely Winter dps loss? Hey just wondering if I talented this if it would be a dps loss for me at my Ilvl?Evelica3 Apr 5
Apr 5 Back to Back Spell Queuing. (Scorch no queue) So is anyone else having an issue with regards to back to back spells not queuing. E.g. I can't fireball then cast another fireball just before it ends, like usual. I have to wait until the end of the spell + latency to cast another one. However I can cast another spell such as scorch or pyro. Also scorch, I cant queue anything, not even a fireball. This is gimping a lot of my damage, and is making the new trait useless, because I cant scorch while I have a pyro proc up, because the scorch has to end before i can throw the pyro, and I lose a heating up I have played around with my custom lag tolerance etc. But that is not fixing the issue. Please help, I hate this a lot.Gretel10 Apr 5
Apr 5 Intellect vs Secondary stats/Legendaries?!? Good Afternoon, I have a question regarding some stats and my legendaries for my Arcane Mage. Which of these two combinations do you think would be better... OPTION #1) Kilt+KJ burning wish Legendaries Stats would be.. Intellect= 47,749K Crit=18% Haste=18% Mastery=37% Vers=9% Option #2) Kilt+Sephulz Ring Legendaries Stats would be.. Intellect= 44,135K Crit=23% Haste=20% Mastery=33% Vers=9% So is it better to take a hit on the intellect for a faster Haste build and more crit? or go with less crit for a build with more Intellect... Much appreciated team, thanks for the advice/help!Noodlesjr6 Apr 5
Apr 5 Teach me how to frost I played fire when legion was first released and now i switched to frost because i likw the damage output better. I mainly do pve. Im not super geared up yet just doing what it takes to get my ilvl up. What talents do i need to take, whats the best rotation, and what are some good tips?Izzarok1 Apr 5
Apr 5 What spec? Started levelling my alt mage from 100. Not sure what spec to go. Fire still the goat?Fireyballs12 Apr 5
Apr 5 Raest video (Frost mage artifact challenge) Here's a little video of me doing the Raest artifact challenge as frost. I wouldn't recommend trying this until you have the 41st trait in your artifact (Freezing Rain) that makes Blizzard instant cast during frozen orb. Let me know if you have any questions Apr 5
Apr 5 Sephuz Secret good for Frost? Just got Sephuz Secret for Frost... is it good?Nommi10 Apr 5
Apr 5 Time and Space During a 11 Lower Kara tonight my Time and Space trait was pulling the Entire instance threw walls and different levels of the dungeon. Before opera I was aggroing all 3 floors, during opera fight and the in the room following It was hitting back up dancers under the floor, it also was going threw huntsman walls. Time to make a Time and Space cancel aura macro =\ Also Arcane barrage seems to not work on Explosive even when directly targeted.Ådoor0 Apr 5
Apr 5 Arcane Mage God Queen Fury Challenge! Here is a guide I made explaining mechanics and the best way to complete the challenge that I found! Also how is everyone going with it? Would love to help!Judgetv5 Apr 5
Apr 5 Fire Mage 7.2 - ST Stat Priority Hey, I know fire mage ST dps is in a tough spot right now, compared to frost mages or other classes. Since I have no time to build up my frost artifact or reroll a new toon, what ideas do any of you have on stat priorities for ST dps? What stat percentages are good to help boost dps on boss fights in NH?Füsoyà2 Apr 5
Apr 5 Mage Campaign - Occulus Preparations I'm trying to finish my mage campaign on this character, and I'm having some trouble finishing the quest "When there's a will, there's a way." I assume its because my follows are not high enough level and I have to run them on lesser missions first? There is an icon next to one of the enemy NPCS within the mission that says "Lethal - troops on this mission will be killed." Does this mean my followers will be killed forever after attempting this mission? Any advice on this part of the campaign?Gandwolf1 Apr 5
Apr 4 Spec help I need help y'all, so I am a fire mage and 6 legendary. The head, wrist, and hands for fire. Then also the chest, trinket, and feet. So I have 2 good legendary for fire. But, my dps is staying about 450k and I am I'll 897. Everytime I am in a raid I either get kick my dps and all. Then also I see frost makes with higher dps who are procing to 1million. And they don't have legendary for frost they are for fire. But my dps sucks as frost. It is more of should I switch to frost and try to get a good rotation down, if you could post that in the comments that would be amazing, or should I stick with fire?Babycrock5 Apr 4
Apr 4 Mage Tower PSA: Frost (Raest) Make sure you equip Sephuz and eat Bear Tartare if you have the legendary, it helps a ton. In last phase you ONLY need to kill Raest, if you die to Karam the quest still completes, got my appearance today.Verycoolguy9 Apr 4
Apr 4 Fire: Perception vs Reality Greetings, I will preface this post by stating that I am biased. I play a fire mage, therefore, a nerf to fire as a spec directly conflicts with my personal interests. However, I believe that players of different classes and developers can have a rational dialogue driven by facts, reason, and respectful argumentation in spite of any perceived bias on either side. I was also completely understanding of the 6% nerf to pyroblast that occurred a few weeks ago that, in term, nerfed ignite as well. I also preface this post with full knowledge that the changes on the 7.1.5 PTR are not final, however, the preliminary changes do reveal the thought process of the developers that illuminate their perception of the class and direction that they wish to take from a balance perspective. A TL/DR is included at the bottom of my post, however, the post's value is strongly tied to evidence and logic presented as support found outside of the TL/DR. I would hope for you to read the entire post for the full effect. Blizzard, you know more than any of us posting on these boards how challenging and arduous the task of balancing specs can be while still maintaining the vision for your game and creating a fun experience. You also have a difficult task of balancing for PvP, PvE, and now mythic + content. Many small changes can have drastic consequences for other areas of this massive game. Despite the fact that I believe you exert a high amount of critical thinking and poise behind all of the major changes that you incite in World of Warcraft, I believe that the changes to fire are rooted on false pretenses of the perceived power of this spec. Like many of us here, I have played WoW with varying degrees of investment dating back to vanilla. I assert, with absolute confidence, that these proposed changes are the only time in my decade long history of playing this game where I have felt completely disconnected from the developers' perspectives of balance. Although, as I understand, the PTR showcases a state of the game that can constantly change, and that, theoretically, the changes proposed on the PTR are not final, I am profoundly troubled that these changes to fire were even proposed in the first place. The fact that these changes were even conceived, shows that the developers believe fire to exist in a state completely different than what many of us who are scouring logs and keeping up with the cutting edge theory of the game believe. Even moving past the concerns that I have over the changes being proposed, nerfs and buffs on the PTR are almost always fully realized with minor tweaks before they hit live. Blizzard, we have many reasons to be worried about the PTR that the response of "The changes are not final!" will not rectify. The pendulum will most likely not swing far back in our direction if it swings at all. Blizzard, even if you do not respond to this thread, as you are not entitled to, please understand that many of us are looking at evidence and do not understand even on a rational basis why these changes are being made. We feel punished for playing a spec, that we believe, (with evidence), is not uniquely powerful in any sense. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evidence Supporting Why Fire Is Not Uniquely Powerful --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In this section, I will show why fire is not overpowered currently using real-time data and log parses. The reason why many people laugh at fire mages when we attempt to defend ourselves on the basis of logs, is that they go to Emerald Nightmare Mythic statistics on warcraftlogs and see the following picture for high-peforming fire mages in mythic progression. From this image alone, one could certainly construct a reasonable argument that fire mages are overpowered and relevant in mythic content. However, this data is highly misleading. The data is misleading because warcraftlogs averages the damage on each fight to produce a total average. Normally, this type of data analysis would be acceptable, however, the fight that fire mages do the highest disproportionate amount of damage on ( thus the biggest factor to the overall rank of 3 in Emerald Nightmare ) is Xavius. This means that the main reason that fire mages are rank 3 on those logs are due to Xavius. On Xavius, fire mages do a TON of USELESS damage from ignite that spreads uncontrollably to tentacles. Additionally, fire mages with the legendary helmet literally pad their logs uncontrollably with the huge dragon's breath cone. I can't state enough how useless the Xavius tentacle damage is. When you average fights in the manner shown by warcraftlogs, this leads to fire mages placement being HIGHLY inflated on the list. If we look at Xavius specifically, we will find this image. In the case of Xavius, since a lot of the damage on "adds" ( primarily the tentacles ) is wasted, we can sort for boss damage on this fight to get a better picture of the spec's real performance. Note, on most fights add damage IS useful damage, however, on Xavius, vast proportions of add damage are WASTED on tentacles. When sorting by boss damage, the following picture arises. And just like that, fire is behind 7 of 11 dps classes and behind both frost and arcane. Note that this doesn't alone mean that fire is not overpowered, this simply means that the main fight that is boosting fire's overall rankings in mythic EN uses misleading data. The previous sentence means that we need to look at where fire would be without taking in to account the Xavius fight that makes the spec look more attractive than it actually is. Also note that on Xavius, fire cannot dps the most important adds ( Inconceivable Horrors ) effectively. The adds die almost instantly to the point where ignite damage is wasted frequently. Xavius truly is a niche case of a spec appearing to be good but being poor overall. Although not perfectly mathematically sound from a pure numbers perspective, we can look at the average position fire mage would have from the first 6 fights of EN (excluding Xavius). Nythendra: 10th Place, behind 8 of 11 classes Il'gynoth : 10th Place, behind 6 of 11 classes Renferal : 4th Place, behind 2 of 11 classes Ursoc : 11th Place, behind 9 of 11 classes Dragons : 3rd Place, behind 2 of 11 classes Cenarius : 21st Place, behind 11 of 11 classes Aggregate: 10th Place, Behind 6 of 11 classes So, if we remove the NOISY data from Xavius, fire mage is, on average, the 10th best dps spec in the game and literally below average in terms of class placement. What this means, is that if you have a room of the top 20% of raiders in the world, and you pick a dps AT RANDOM, on average, they will perform slightly better than a random fire mage in mythic EN. Disclaimer: For any astute mathematician, I am aware that warcraftlogs takes a weighted average and I only took an average of the positions of the class. However, if you remove Xavius that has highly inflated dps numbers, each bosses dps for 80th% is around the same meaning that the weighted average will not be much different than the results that I obtained. I did the calculation this way for ease and to shorten this already incredibly lengthy post. Now lets look at Trials of Valor on heroic, which, thankfully does not require nearly as much thought as they aren't as many ways to obfuscate the data. I will use heroic because mythic has almost no samples, especially on Helya with only 2 guilds being able to kill her at this point. Fire has one amazing fight in Helya and two terrible fights in Odyn and Guarm. However, we see that in Trials of Valor fire is literally 17th place and LAST place in terms of class placement. In trials of valor, there is a spec for literally EVERY single class, that performs better than fire mages. Let me repeat this, In trials of valor, there is a spec for literally EVERY single class, that performs better than fire mages. Unfortunately, the situation is much worse than it seems already for most fire mages. Let me elaborate. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Effect of the Sun King --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pretty much everyone agrees that the fire mage legendary bracers the Marquee Bindings of the Sun King are overpowered. Even Blizzard devs have admitted that the fire mage bracers and unholy DK bracers outstandingly overpowered. Blizzard said, ... So, all of the analysis that I previously explained is highly affected by the legendary bracers that is skewing performance especially in single target scenarios where mages struggle. Because I was using logs for the top ~80% of players, a large portion of the fire mage data is from mages using the bracers. Blizzard already realized that pyroblast was hitting like an absolute truck with these bracers so they nerfed pyrbolast by 6% which hit all mages. The thing that doesn't make literally any sense, is that mages, as I have shown are around average with the bracers. In 7.1.5, the bracers are being nerfed as well as the class. Can someone explain this to me???? I am truly perplexed as to the reasoning behind these changes. With the bracers, mages are slightly above average to average. Without the bracers, mages are performing around average to below average. So Blizzard wants to nerf the bracers and the spec simultaneously after already nerfing us a few weeks back?? Also, the 6% pyroblast nerf was larger than most people realize. Each artifact relic minor trait if you get the best one gives 2% pyroblast damage. So the nerf literally was like removing the minor trait from every artifact relic you will ever receive. Without the bracers, the spec feels so anemic on fights that don't allow for the abuse of living bomb. Blizzard, this feels like all fire mages are being punished for the OPness of the bracers that you are already nerfing! I am being punished for a legendary item that I don't have! Let's take a look at how the bracers affect mage rankings. Luckily, warcraftlogs allows the option to exclude items from ranking lists. This is the top 100 rankings for fire mages on mythic ursoc excluding the legendary bracers. We can see, that the 100th best fire mage WITHOUT the bracers on Ursoc is the 500th best mage overall on Ursoc. This is STAGGERING. This shows that the bracers are a large part of the high end mage rankings. Blizzard, your proposed solution nerfs the bracers and the rest of us. However, I have shown that even WITH the bracers, fire mages still aren't as strong as perceived. This is what many of us can't wrap our head around and why many of us are infuriated by the already frustrating legendary item system. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Perception vs Reality --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Perhaps the most alarming thing for any fire mage waiting for our fate to be decided is Ornyx's response in a previous thread. ... The problem is, the perception of fire mage is warped. I understand that Blizzard wants every player to have a voice, however, I have shown that the perception of the public is that fire mages are stronger than they actually are. This shouldn't be an issue of voice, but rather of fact. This was the only justification provided from Blizzard to these large sweeping nerfs, was that unnamed members of the WoW population believe fire to be too strong. Yesterday, I did a mythic + dungeon and we pulled 20 mobs. Fire mages' dps in AOE is quadractic, meaning that the more mobs present, the much higher damage we do per mob due to living bomb. As I combusted and spiked to millions of dps, the healer made a comment about how he/she wished his/her alt was a fire mage. Do you know what the healer didn't see? The healer didn't notice the small pulls where my combustion was down where I do the dps of an ilvl 830 melee dps at 870. This averages out over the course of the entire dungeon. After the dungeon was over, I looked at my logs ( yes I log 90% or more of the mythic + that I do ) and I only beat the other two dps by ~5%. However, the healer BELIEVED that I was the one carrying the massive damage load because of the asinine spikes in damage allowed to us through mass pulling and combustion/living bomb AOE. Fire mages are incredibly easy to scapegoat and be perceived as overpower due to the flashy nature of our damage. We are noticed when we are on top, but invisible when on the bottom. Players see this, and they get an improper PERCEPTION of the actual strength of the class. Ornyx, this is why your response has deeply troubled me, and many other fire mages trying to remain rational in this situation. We all know that everyone thinks we are overpowered. I can understand why people think this as well as I have pointed out! The problem is, the average player's assessment that isn't in the trenches with fire mages ( especially on our numerous bad fights ) isn't rooted with experiences. They only see the glory. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mythic + Balance --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A brief segment on mythic + balance. Blizzard has stated that since mythic + awards cutting edge loot, it must be balanced to similar scrutiny as raid content. This is a reasonable statement and policy. I do want to say this about fire mages in mythic +. I stated previously that our damage in AOE situations is quadratic. This needs to be fully understood so that the rest of my argument makes sense. When most classes AOE, they do a ton of dps because they are hitting many targets. Most of the time, the amount of targets that they are hitting does not enhance the damage dealt to an individual target. Fire mages do not operate this way. Due to living bomb applying to each target in an AOE situation, and then exploding damaging each target again. The more targets that a fire mage hits in mass AOE, the more damage that each individual monster takes. This is made even stronger by the fact that giant pulls align very nicely with combustion. This means that fire is hilariously rewarded for massive pulls that are mostly only possible in LOW mythic + where the tank won't die instantly. On higher mythic+, fire is nowhere as good at AOE as one would think simply because 99.999% of the playerbase ( depending on affixes as well ) cannot just pull 20 monsters per pull. Think of this week in NA where the affix is bolstering. Most pulls are 3-4 monsters each. This means that living bomb doesn't reach insane damage and this also means that there are several pulls where we cannot use combustion. Without combustion, fire does TERRIBLE damage in AoE. So we do 1 pull with insane damage, and 1 pull with terrible damage. Now, obviously, we are still very good in mythic + especially due to our burst on short boss fights, but we, again, we are not as good as one would think. For high mythic +, ( the content that Blizzard wants to balance with high scrutiny) fire severely suffers from many small pulls. We can see, again, that we are ~10th place on mythic + 10 keystones, and 6 of 11 classes. Absolutely not warranting a nerf. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Conclusion --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The most troubling part of this entire scenario is that switching specs has never provided so much turbulence. Although artifact research will allow a player to quickly catch up in terms of artifact power on off spec weapons, they will still be hurting massively in terms of legendary items ( that can amount to +/- 75,000 dps single target), artifact relics, and itemization. For example, I have gotten insanely lucky with artifact relics but have had terrible luck with legendary items. My Felo'melorn is literaly 911 ilvl, I have 3 relics that are amazing. 1 from Nightbane titanforge, 1 from mythic + 10 titanforge, and another from a mythic + 8 titanforge. So despite my legendary luck ( sephuz secret is the only one I have ), I have something to look forward to. The thing is, I have spent 15 days played grinding content like a madman for fire. I have literally done over 100 + mythic + dungeons ( from wowprogress) as fire where a large, large portion of those are multiple chest runs with a few close friends. If I am forced to switch specs, the new system that you have in place will literally RUIN me. The only good thing about my character is my artifact relics, and the same is true for thousands of other players. What about the players that spent 25 days played and have a similar artifact relic to mine and spec specific legendary items? Never before has the punishment for switching specs been so high. Blizzard, Ion claimed in a Q&A with fatboss TV that you would avoid changing specs like this for this specific reason. I have never invested so much into this game to be punished so severely which in part is due to a legendary item that I don't have. I am objectively being punished for the perception of fire that other players hold and for a legendary item that I do not have. I am unlikely to get my frost or arcane artifact relic even within 11 ilvls for the next 80 hours of play time at least. In conclusion, I will say this. I am a competitive game fanatic. I have been on the cusp of grandmaster in SC2, I have reached top 500 in Overwatch, I've reached global in CSGO, Top 500 on the LoL ladder, etc. This is the single biggest change that I have ever disagreed with in all of my years of gaming ever. I have played my fair share of overpowered classes, underpowered classes, and classes believe to be overpowered but weren't in every game. This is by far the situation where fire mage is purported to be extremely powerful, but in reality, is not. I have not once been compelled to post on a forum in complete earnest and exasperation to what I have at stake. Blizzard, you do not owe me much of anything - this I understand. The only thing that I believe you owe to me, and to players like me that have invested so much in to a system that is so hard to change ( artifact relics/legendary items/itemization) is that you exert extreme care and analysis before potentially erasing literally several DAYS of effort and play time. Ornyx's response, and the sheer magnitude of even the first draft of these changes has led me to believe that this is not the case. I do not believe that fire mages should receive these nerfs for the reasons explained above, and I am willing, for the first time, to fight for many of these changes to be reverted. TL/DR: The perception of fire mages vastly out-scales how strong the spec actually is. Although biased, I have provided a large amount of rational evidence as to why this is the case. The system in places punishes players extremely for switching specs due to artifact relics, legendary items, and itemization. I believe all fire mages are being punished for the few that were fortunate enough to get the legendary bracers. I understand PTR isn't final, but the PTR shows how the devs perceive fire mage's strength. Of any proposed changes in the history of my gaming life ever, these are the ones that I disagree with the most. I disagree vehemently based on the claims made in my post. Thank you for reading this incredibly lengthy post.Smalldps429 Apr 4
Apr 4 Mage PvP Changes This Week Mage Intellect in PvP has been nerfed by 5% for all 3 specs. Intellect, Strength and Agility have been reduced by 5% across the board in PvP, this excludes healer specs. Health increased by 5% in PvP. Those are all the changes affecting Mages this week in PvP so we're safe for another week, Greater Pyroblast will be more valuable to Fire now. Apr 4
Apr 4 Mage Tower Woes The Mage Tower was built not too long ago, and many of us succumbed to the venom it has brought. The venom in this case being the artifact challenges. Blizzard did say that the challenges would be "extremely difficult" without ToS gear at least, and that attempting them anytime beforehand is basically suicide. In this case, it seems they're right... For the most part, at least. I'm trying to not de-rail on the "rant" end of a thread, but it brings up some analytic concerns about these challenges that I'd like to address. Being a Frost Mage, I'm dealt with the quest "Thwarting the Twins". Basically, you have Raest casting in the middle, while you kite Karam who gets faster and faster throughout the fight. Once you get Karam to some thresholds, you should then attack Raest and AoE the little adds and sometimes kill giant shadow hands etc. Rinse and repeat until Raest is dead. Karam will one-shot you if too close... Those are basically the barebones of the fight. Once you do it though, it's something that made me say "well, what the @#$% is this". I'd like to bring up 2 points here- The Frost Mage quest itself, and the general Mage Tower. Mind you me, I'm 3/10 Mythic, (almost 4/10m), and a decent player. I'd like to think I play well to the best of my abilities, as much as my spec and cooldowns can gain me. I'm not the absolute best, but I'm not a bad player neither. Thwating the Twins- I'd like to start off saying the moment I realized Karam would one-shot you within his melee range, I knew this was going to be a chore. That couldn't be it to the fight, and there has to be more. Doing what I can, I was successfully kiting him pretty well. Doing my rotation and slows when available. He then seemed to get faster and faster. If you mess up once, he will eventually just catch right up to you. Eventually if you get a a certain wall, you then have to balance Karam and shadow adds, while bringing damage to Raest. Without going into super specific detail, the sheer fact of soloing this as an average-raider Frost Mage, I can see how it may be overwhelming for many of the playerbase. This looks like something from a 5-man encounter, but you're alone with only your own spells and GCD's at your side. All of this is bundled into a "challenge", and rightfully so. It brings you to the steppes of your spec to test what you can do. But... is it really a challenge, or just a gear check for no reason? That's for you to decide. Mage Tower Quests in General- 1) Gear over Abilities - This one you're either left or right. You believe this is rightfully a challenge or just a giant gear check under the rug. I believe it's a gear check, and for some classes/specs, a check to see if you have a proper legendary lego. Blizzard did say that attempting these artifact quests would be "extremely difficult", but you are definitely allowed to take that with a grain of salt. In what factors does this make it difficult, Blizz? Difficulty comes at a price, but at a doable price. Having many people realize that they just cannot even attempt their quest isn't cool. You can perform your absolute best and feel a reward coming, but because apparently it may be a gear check under the sheets, you're just going to try over and over again with no results. 2) Pay to Play - If you're like me, you would have made a handful of attempts to see what you can change or what you can improve on the next time you try it out. Remember: the tower is only active for 3 days since it was built, so you may want all the attempts you can make. Although, this comes at a price of 100 nethershards a pop. Enough to say here... I personally believe that is just crap. I'm sorry, but it is. Just stop while you're ahead. 3) Certain Legos in Order to Ride - Not attaining to every class/spec here, but searching around the forums and chat in-game, it's somewhat evident you may need a certain lego to even have a shot at beating your quest, currently at least. For example, Prydaz for Arcane Mages made it super easier to do the quest than Arcane Mages without. Affliction Warlocks stated that the need of Sacrolash's Dark Strike legendary ring is almost essential to complete their quest due to it's structure. In general, we all know certain legos will make encounters easier. Overtime, we may/may not see other reports like this. 4) RNG - Rounding back onto gear, even if you don't believe it's a gear check, this phrase is in the equation somewhere, and you can't deny it. If you feel like you're not outputting enough as to where you should be, you need better gear. Plain and simple. Again, Blizz saying that without ToS gear this would be hard, they weren't wrong, but the feeling of handfuls upon handfuls of players not even feeling like they can properly attempt is horrid design, at this early stage. Where does RNG come in? I mean, put 2 + 2 together. Go into ToS, or NH, get gear, and hope for upgrades (warforged/titanforged) rather than normal ilvl for the difficulty. You will always have an upperhand than the next guy. RNG. So, what am I getting at here? The Mage Tower, regardless of the possible bonus AP power for now, was unlocked too early. Many players I feel couldn't understand just how hard these challenges would be, myself included. When someone says that something is "extremely difficult", you should at least have an inkling that it still doable and not impossible. For some specs, it's currently just impossible to do. For those of you that beat the odds, with certain legos, ilvl, luck etc., congratulations. Really, I mean it. The rest of the majority are still trying to sway and figure out what can be done, and how to go about this. Chat is just filled with things like on how a certain quest for a spec is just not even doable, or how the Mage Tower shouldn't have been built until ToS. Whether they're right or wrong is up to you. Blizzard giving us this democracy on what should be built is sort of a counter-play. None of us could forsee just how difficult these quests were until we tried them first hand on the live servers, (you see what changed from PTR to live, don't give Blizz too much credit). All in all, it's up to you what you want to do. I don't see myself completeing this at ilvl 903, with better than average player skill. I'm here to say as vague as Blizz put it, many of us will be overwhelmingly trying to complete this over and over until we gear up more from ToS. That's all I gotta say.Ópium28 Apr 4
Apr 4 Improved So after taking a break from WoW as you can see from my activity log, I was meandering through the forums kinda curios to see when the last blue post on the mage page was... It was only 42 pages back and the response was dated Nov 16th... ARE YOU KIDDING ME? We are the imperically the worst pure dps spec with the lowest utility (IMO because heroism is so readily available now). I haven't checked logs in a bit but I would be absolutely stunned if any of the three specs were on top 50% of the spectrum. Mages should be top dogs or close to it always. That's the way the class was designed to work, the weaker your survivabilty the harder you hit. Actually that's just kinda game balancing 101. So here we are almost 5 months have passed since their last comment on any mage spec and where are mages, pretty much down the drain. I don't care if you like the way the spec feels (I personally enjoy playing fire) you almost certainly have a problem with how it performs. Even if you did get lucky and have BiS legendaries, it's obvious mages need substantial buffs. So I have to wonder at the end of the day where the hell are the Devs? Ever since 7.1.5 mages have been pretty subpar. I made a deal that if I didn't I see any mage buffs in 7.2 I would let my break turn into just not playing WoW anymore. Yet here I am still hoping you guys will buff mages, because at the end of the day I do enjoy playing WoW, but it's becoming increasingly less worth the $15.Greeniejr2 Apr 4
Apr 4 FIX FIRE MAGES!!! Blizzard, A fire mage without belt or bracers is unplayable! You need to hotfix this !@#$ right now. It's stupid how people 10 ilvls lower but with BIS legendaries can do 200k more dps. You can start by restoring ROP to 50% and increasing mastery granted by combustion to 75% or back to 100%. (I'm not trying to pull people with legendaries down, I just want to not do !@#$ dps compared to everybody else) This is getting ridiculous.Schermerhorn136 Apr 4
Apr 4 Artifact Appearance Challenge So I have plenty of nethershards and have unlocked the new 7.2 artifact traits but the artifact challenge quest is not popping up at the mage tower. Any thoughts?Durzaa2 Apr 4
Apr 4 Arcane Artifact quest INSANELY difficult? Anyone else have this issue? I'm trying to do the scenario in the nexus at level 110 and I'm dying repeatedly to single mobs, this definitely doesn't seem right or I must be doing something wrong.Lawros52 Apr 4
Apr 4 Arcane, fire, or frost for PvP?? Curious to hear the communities thoughts on best pvp spec this season. I hear a lot of people saying arcane is throwing out big numbers as well as glacial spike frost. I've also seen a lot of great players still playing fire for pvp. What are your thoughts??Captkal10 Apr 4
Apr 4 God damm it's a challenge but i like it I assume majority of you tryed the new mage tower elite quest. I tried the fire one only once ,and was like aw F this, and Arcane one once as well, but i think the Arcane one is doable right now, but i tried like 15 times on the frost one. I don't get it, my kick does not come up in time to stop the claws, and i can only block like 1 one of them, I did out range one of the cast by 100 yards once haha, but i guess we need more dps to take down the claws faster to kill the paladin brother faster.Justcold1 Apr 4