Class Development

Feb 15 Class Adjustments - February 6 With realm maintenance in each region, starting tomorrow (February 6), we plan to apply a few class tuning changes via hotfix. Details below. Thanks! Hunter Beast Mastery All damage increased by 2.5%. Serpentstalker Guise 4-piece bonus now causes Kill Command to reduce the cooldown of Aspect of the Wild by 3 seconds (was 2.5 seconds). Mage Fire All damage increased by 3%. Warlock Affliction Corruption, Agony damage reduced by 6%. Long Dark Night of the Soul now increases healing you receive from Drain Soul by 3% per rank (was 10%). Player versus Player All of the above class changes are offset in PvP situations.Kaivax98 Feb 15
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Jan 19, 2017 Welcome. Please Read! Welcome to the Class Development forum! This forum is here to provide you with a friendly environment where you can discuss the ongoing development of Class Design in Legion with your fellow World of Warcraft players. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy, so we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct (http://us.battle.net/en/community/conduct) and guidelines (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/15252595157) before posting. Important Reminders: Search The search function at the top of the World of Warcraft community site is extremely effective and robust. Before you create a new forum topic, please be use it to search for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer for which you are looking. Making a new thread on an existing subject can result in your thread being deleted or, if you continue to re-post the same content, the loss of your forum privileges for spamming. Rating The forum rating system can be used to promote positive discussion, demote unhelpful comments, and even report posts that violate the forum Code of Conduct. By hovering over a post you'll be presented with several options, including a "thumbs up" (Like) and a "thumbs down" (Dislike) icon. Clicking the "thumbs up" icon will rate the post up. If enough people like a post, it will gain a Highly Rated status and appear at the top of related search results. Highly Rated posts will also have a highlighted background. Clicking the "thumbs down" icon will expand a drop-down menu which will include "Dislike," "Trolling, "Spam" and "Report" options. "Dislike" will rate the post down. If enough people dislike a post, it will be darkened, and with a lot of dislikes it will be hidden completely. You can also quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of a violation. Please note that you can only rate each post once. Use your power wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community. Have fun posting on these forums, and good luck with your adventures in Azeroth and the Broken Isles!Lore0 Jan 19, 2017
7m Go full ranged with Outlaw Why have 3 spec so similar if you are trying to differentiate so badly. Its time to do to Outlaw what you did to survival except backwards!Bhrome26 7m
14m Warlock alpha feedback BFA Warcraft developers and blizzard, I'm aware the datamining changes aren't final and there are still many changes to be done. Below I've compiled a comprehensive list of changes that myself and many other Warlocks would like to see introduced in BFA. Talent choices in legion for Warlocks were poor, We were in an extremely bad place at the beginning of the expansion and finding a keystone to run via lfg was impossible because of our poor performance. I have a screenshot saved on my pc showing a whisper from a keystone leader stating I quote "Not inviting you because you're a Warlock and they aren't good". I speak from a competitive cutting edge mythic raiding standpoint and want to see fun and meaningful spells/talent choices.. General class changes Baseline demonic circle (This talent has been baseline since introduced to the Warlock class. It's a mandatory talent in nearly 99% of all situations this has been one of the biggest community requests since legion launched. I can guarantee if BFA goes live with this as a talent the other 2 talents it's competing with will be dead talents. It makes no sense for it to be a talent first of all and secondly competing with cc talents. Being slow isn't a fun mechanic, Even with baseline demonic circle we're still going to be one of the most immobile classes out there. Demonic circle being a talent ruined the spell because it now requires a macro to work correctly even though the macro is still buggy. I've spoken to multiple rank 1 gladiators and the most common suggestion we need is baseline demonic circle.) Baseline Dark soul It's unfair that Warlocks have demons for our baseline offensive CD. They don't scale with multitarget unlike our old dark soul spells did, They were unique to each spec haste for affliction for partial dot ticks and increased soulshard gen and crit for destruction which provided quick embers on demand(Demons are lacklustre cd's and Warlocks are the only dps spec without a true baseline offensive cd. Please remove soul harvest as a talent and give us back the freedom of having an offensive cd unique to each of our specs. Our cd felt more enjoyable that way rather than a talent.) Anti melee cc options (Instant Shadowfury, Bloodhorror, Demonic breath, Curse of exhaustion. We're always the prime target when it comes to arena we are in desperate need of a snare and some anti melee tools.) Unique resource skins for each spec. Having the same resource makes no sense thematically (Affliction:Soulshards, Destruction:Burning embers, Demonology:X) Soul link(Why is demonology the only spec that has access to soul link, For the tanky caster it's the only tanky spec of our class when all specs are meant to be durable and tanky) Gateway mastery baseline (It was baseline in MoP why was the distance reduced we're already extremely immobile) Dark regeneration (Warlocks are meant to be the tanky and durable caster with lots of self healing but it doesn't seem that way in pvp. We're trained by melee cleave comps until we die and make for easy targets.) 4 soulshard + Ember resource limit/cap(Resource management just felt and flowed better with 4 shards/embers)Xelnaz185 14m
16m [Arms] Revert the Tactician and EXECUTE NERF Please revert tactician how it was, to reset the CD on both MORTAL STRIKE and OVERPOWER. I do not want to be spamming overpower mindlessly in between MS cool-downs. There was a nice eb and flow and fluidity to the CS (overpower in BfA) empowering MS > into MS with Tactician resetting both. HOLLLLLLD UP.... so I just re-read the new changes ************THEY ARE NERFING Executioner's Precision************** If this goes live and you guys remove the execute buffing mortal strike mechanic I will be super mad. You guys said you aren't going to be messing with specs that much, stop changing core aspects of the spec with no compensation or interesting mechanic in its place. The tactician nerf and execute nerf in place of spamming overpower???? Is this your idea of fun for Arms??? Ya no thanks. Please fix this ASAP.Palaceknight0 16m
19m Healing Priests in Mythic+ needs some love Is this being addressed? So far everything I read & have seen says no. I understand its still early, but I really hope this is being addressed as I really love mythic plus and the priest class. Blizzard finally made end game content that doesn't involve farming the same raid boss over and over. I want to play Priest in BFA, but if we don't get some minor changes that would help us in 5 mans, I don't think I see myself playing it. Holy Priests need a baseline DR that is on a 2 minute or less cooldown. Maybe add it to Desperate Prayer? The healing they put out is fine, but our survivability is severely slacking when compared to other classes. Holy Priests arguably are the weakest healer in Mythic+ right now in most keys. Our mobility is also weak, but getting a baseline DR would help a bit in that department. If we don't get a new mobility or DR spell then the Legion legendary cloak mechanic should be made baseline at least. We don't have a brez, no true reliable stun/interrupt, no mobility, and no DR currently... If Disc Priests are staying generally the same, atonement healing needs a small boost. The kit is strong , even stronger than Holy. But our healing lacks in higher keys. If the atonement healing was adjusted in 5 mans just a bit, I truly think it would make a huge difference. For anyone thinking about my experience in keys, I have been pushing keys this patch quite hard and I am usually top 10 for healing priests for NA. I also play both Holy and Disc. https://raider.io/characters/us/whisperwind/Guysavesyou Druids and Paladins aren't OP in keys, their kits shouldn't be nerfed. Buff the other classes please.Guysavesyou6 19m
20m All Rogue specs should have poisons It is part of our class icon.Mafic11 20m
5s The New Ret Update Looks Great For the most part everything looks positive. I still have a few grievances with it but I feel much better about how it's shaping up. I'm a bit worried Hammer of Wrath competing with Blade of Wrath, not so much just HoW competing, but literally anything. BoW smooths out our rotation with procs and ensures we almost always have something good to press. I don't think very many rets at all will want to not use HoW, but outside of wings/execute, I fear our rotation will still be a bit slow. I really like the Final Verdict change but I'm afraid it'll be too hard to maintain the buff for long enough to make it worth it without BoW The change to judgement is great and still keep the flavor of what you were going for without making everything awful. I like it. Consecrate generating HP looks like it could make it drastically more useful as well as not having to compete with something as simply overpowered as current final verdict. I can see this being useful and actually taken now. I really don't know why you brought inquisition back. It was one of the most universally hated spells amongst paladins in cata/mop. With it's new effect and competing against an even further nerfed crusade, I feel like it's going to be an automatic include. It's basically 10% passive dmg and haste every so often. It's going to provide no rotational complexity, all it's going to do is make us not press a useful, meaningful, fun spell just for the sake of keeping it up. Maintenance isn't fun. Divine Vengeance looks neat. I'm interested to see how well it plays out in practice. I'm slightly worried it may fall short simply because it's a dead talent when you reach pure st or 2 target cleave, but I can think of some places now where I would consider using it, so that's not bad. Although if I'm being honest, if we have a talent that augments divine storm, could it just be divine tempest instead? I'm quite pleased to see divine hammer get axed. The only reason people were so ravenous about this ability is it was so overtuned in nighthold that nerfing it was a direct ST dmg nerf to us as well in a world where we were underperforming on ST. It almost felt like a maintenance buff except that maintenance buff was part of your core rotation. Press button, receive damage over 8 seconds, read reddit comments on 2nd screen. You're also on the right track by nerfing the retribution passive, keep going, you're almost there. All you have to do is delete it. Lastly, a few last tidbits, I'd really like to see exorcism come back in place of blade of justice. It worked functionally the same. The only good reason I could think of as to why it wouldnt work in legion was because maybe it wouldn't work with divine hammer, which is gone now. You can even reduce the range to BoJ range and adjust it's dmg to be proportional. It just feels right to have exorcism back. At least make it a glyph. Same with divine storm. Please give us the old divine storm animation. Please. Overall, I'm very excited. please keep this up.Auras9 5s
32m Bring the Class, not the player I keep hearing something from Ion that concerns me about class design, and I think it has a lot to do with why we're getting pruned so much. It's not about class fantasy or spec fantasy either. There seems to be the mindset that if multiple players have similar abilities, then they can't feel unique so the abilities need to be removed from other classes so players "feel unique". Here are a few quotes from Ion (and informational releases from Blizzard): ... ... ... ... ... In the process of making players feel unique, they are pruning all of the fun tools each spec has. They clearly has no idea why people are so upset. If they did, they wouldn't be making statements like this. For the love of God, where does it stop? If you think about this design strategy, it puts most of the questionable class design decisions into context: - Melee SV - Remove traps from Hunters to reduce CC - Only Assasination Rogues need poisons - Remove all the knock back abilities from all the classes except one - Changing classes so they are virtually unrecognizable from WoD to Legion - Taking utility spells and giving each spec different abilities that used to be baseline for all three/four specs. Everything makes sense if their design philosophy is "Bring the class, not the player." This design philosophy destroyed Class Design in Legion, but they continue to pursue it. If they truly want to make players feel unique, they need to add unique abilities to the classes, not delete abilities because they are too similar to one another. The thing that used to make classes unique was the combination of abilities, not one special talent. "Bring the class, not the player" is a terrible design strategy. It we call it what it is, then the designers might just figure it out. I am here begging Blizzard to stop going down this road. You are quite literally destroying classes and specs and all we're getting is a DPS rotation and one or two unique abilities. That is why we keep complaining about classes feeling "empty." You keep deleting all the abilities so other classes feel unique.Snugsnug1 32m
38m Hammer of wrath! Baseline, all specs! Please! Don’t make it a talent. You almost excited me until I realized it’s now a talent. Allow prot and holy to have it too! Having to spec into an execute is neither fun or exciting, and if it’s top tier dps for raids it’ll feel mandatory and we will likely begrudgingly take it even though those of us who mained a paladin for ages love hammer of wrath.Cbegzz3 38m
39m Legion's Class Design Failed I'm making this post because Blizzard is obviously not listening to their players. They obviously have not realized that class design failed in Legion. They're going into BfA with a lot of the same mindsets as they had with Legion. This can not happen. It is getting ridiculously frustrating seeing abilities we've had for years be taken away completely or taken and thrown up on the talent tree. In no way has this ever felt good as a player. Ever. Class design in MoP was truly the best I've ever experienced. This is my opinion of course but there are many reasons as to why it was great. I played all classes and most if not all specs over the course of MoP and I never once complained about the design because it felt full, rewarding and just crazy fun to play. Blizzard. Your class design in Legion failed. Accept it. Change it or BfA will be another expansion with a lot of cool stuff to do but it's not going to be as enjoyable because class design is uninteresting and unfun to play.Fretti104 39m
48m Summon Pit Lord. This would really complete demo imo. We need a big powerful summon like this and alpha is the perfect time to add it.Lucîfîa2 48m
49m #RevertToMoP Enough is enough Blizz. You don't know what is and isn't fun anymore when it comes to class design. MoP class design is the definition of fun. Take it from the people who are actually playing this game and putting up with your poor choices. EDIT: I've made another thread in light of recent condensing and pruning. The future looks grim, fellow depth seekers... https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761606775Starsite406 49m
51m Binding Shot and Wyvern Sting too similar to baseline skills in BfA, seems Tar Trap is being boosted to 80%, and at the same time Binding Shot is being nerfed. They will look pretty much the same. In the same way, Wyvern Sting and Freezing trap are already too simular. My point is: both Binding Shot and Wyvern Sting are too simular to baseline abilities. What about removing them to allow more space for new nicer talents?Axmor3 51m
56m Camouflage as a baseline talent. Because we're sneaky. I know this gets said a lot but I don't know if it's been clarified how many of us really feel that camo should be baseline. Camouflage has seriously been one of the most fun improvements to the Hunter class I've seen since launch. It makes sense to me that it has some weaknesses over other stealth classes! This actually helps my racial talent choice a ton which is a nice change playing Alliance. But it would be fantastic to have as a baseline ability instead of a talent.Wyspers16 56m
1h 8.0 Alpha Marksman Feedback The alpha test for Battle for Azeroth has begun, and I would like to present some early feedback on the changes thus far. UPDATED FOR BUILD 26032 on 2/14/18 Discussion as of this update begins as of this post: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20760917770?page=13#post-252 First and foremost, the changes in question. PLEASE NOTE THAT ALL NUMBERS ARE HEAVILY SUBJECT TO CHANGE, DO NOT FREAK OUT ABOUT UNDERTUNED ABILITIES, THE PURPOSE IS TO DISCUSS MECHANICS: Core rotational abilities: Aimed Shot: 50 Focus, 40 yd range, 3 sec cast, 12 sec recharge, 2 charges A powerful aimed shot that deals 143% of AP Physical damage. Damage increased by 50% against a target you have not damaged. Quick Shot (NEW) Instant, 15 Focus A quick shot that causes 19.24% of AP Physical damage. Multi-Shot 25 Focus, 40 yd range, Instant cast Fires several missiles, hitting your current target and all enemies within 8 yards for 26.52% of AP Physical damage. Rapid Fire (NEW) Channeled (3 sec cast), 20 sec cooldown Shoot a stream of arrows at your target, dealing 5.72% of AP Physical damage every 0.3 sec for 3 sec. Each shot generates 3 Focus. Usable while moving. Steady Shot (NEW) 2 sec cast A steady shot that causes 19.24% Physical damage. Usable while moving. Generates 10 Focus. Trueshot Instant, 3 min cooldown Increase all damage done by 20%. Windburst (REMOVED) Marked Shot (REMOVED) Arcane Shot (REMOVED) Passives: Mastery: Sniper Training (UNCHANGED) Lone Wolf (NOW BASELINE) Increases your damage by 18% when you do not have an active pet. Trick Shots When Multi-Shot hits 2 or more targets, your next Aimed Shot will ricochet and hit up to 5 additional targets, or each shot of your next Rapid Fire will ricochet to an additional nearby target. Hunting Party (UNCHANGED) Marksman's Focus (REMOVED) Marking Targets (REMOVED) Hunter's Mark (REMOVED) Vulnerable (REMOVED) Utility: Bursting Shot (NERFED) 10 Focus, Attack speed, 30 sec cooldown Fires an explosion of bolts at all enemies in front of you, knocking them back, snaring them by 50% for 4 sec, and dealing 6.76% of AP Physical damage. Concussive Shot (NERFED) 40 yd range, Instant, 8 sec cooldown Dazes the target, slowing movement speed by 50% for 6 sec. Counter Shot (UNCHANGED) Disengage (UNCHANGED) Exhilaration (UNCHANGED) Freezing Trap (UNCHANGED) Misdirection (UNCHANGED) Tar Trap (BUFFED) 40 yd range, Instant, 30 sec cooldown Hurls a tar trap to the target location that creates a 8 yd radius pool of tar around itself for 30 sec when the first enemy approaches. All enemies have 80% reduced movement speed while in the area of effect. Trap will exist for 1 min. Tranquilizing Shot (NEW) 10 sec cooldown Removes 1 Enrage and 1 Magic effect from an enemy target.Adreaver301 1h
1h Hunter Stable Idea Hello, so I have an idea for Hunters and their Stable of pets. Right now, we have 55 slots and in BFA there will be about 51 pet families. For those who collect or camp for rare tames, it's very easy to have, say, 10 spirit beasts, so stable slots are at a premium. There's been a lot of talk about adding more stable slots, but I think that's more a band-aid fix. However, I have an idea as well! They could change the stable into more of an interface like with the Battle Pets. They can be sorted by family, you can name them, and on the right half you could "set" your 5 pets to bring with you if they still want to keep stable masters a thing. With this kind of system, as soon as you tame something you learn the appearance and can summon it whenever as your active pet. This way we kind of get the best of both worlds: those who want to collect can and those who don't won't have to. It can even be account-wide so you can bring your rare pet with you no matter which hunter you're on. I can see there being a little difficulty with coding some pets such as the oil-stained wolf or the pig that's on fire, but Blizzard could probably handle it.Clamperl13 1h
1h Tank Mitigation: Spells So the way it looks in alpha atm is that tanks active mitigation will simply increase your armor amount. Now this only helps against physical attacks. I was curious how other tanks feel Blizzard will help with mitigating spells. For example as a paladin I could use -Kings -Ardent Defender -Spellward -Bubble trick Now personally that’s enough CDs, IF the spell is being cast like every 45secs. Starting with AD and running through the list until AD is back up. But this also only works if the boss fights are short. Those who have tanked dungeons in BfA and seen bosses how do you feel they are being handled? Is say 80% of the fight physical and then like 2-3spells over the course of the whole fight? Or do they have some bosses such as Medivh from Upper Kara who is 100% spell dmg.Phatori5 1h
1h BfA frost dk Since we artifact weapons are going away, and gearing now switches to appropriate stats for your spec. I.e. if you use agility it switches, if you use strength it switches. Would it be to much to ask for frost Dk to be able to use daggers to help with gearing since 2h frost is dead anyway.Cronge0 1h
1h About the BfA Demo "Imp Mother" Theme... Hi all, I'm sure i'm going to get a ton of hate for this but I love the way Blizzad is going with Demonolog. I don't often post on these forums but after seeing all of the players "protesting" against the new changes in BfA I thought I would join in and share my opinion on the matter. Let me start out by saying that this is a game and it is a class fantasy geared came sense why it is in the "roleplaying" genre. Granted, PvP is a large aspect to WoW but not everything about classes is wrapped around "dots" and "dps" which is just something that needs to be said. I love PvP, I enjoy a challenge on occasion but as I said earlier this is a game and for some folks such as myself I play to have fun in-between other activities not to boost my ego online. With all of this being said here are a few items to keep in mind as the developers move forward: 1) ALL Warlocks can summon demons just as much as ALL warlocks can open portals if they have the appropriate experience and power. 2) Warlock's power source does NOT come from their weapon. Why? Because they are Warlocks and are born that way. A Warrior, for example cannot just say "Hey, let me equip this staff and cast a Shadow Bolt" no, they can't do that because they do not have the internal power they were born with. Is their power boosted from their weapons? Sure, as much as protein boosts your ability to build muscle but it is our internal cellular makeup that allows us to build muscle in the first place 3) No, Demonology should not have a single, powerful "pit lord" if I wanted this I would play destruction and use Grimoire of Service to have a permanent Infernal. Demonology is met to be a summon, we see this in lore with the Warlocks who sit behind the scenes opening portals and summoning swarms of demons. 4) There is nothing wrong with the "imp mother" theme. This is exactly what high level warlocks are. Warlocks do not engage directly, they have servants that do this for them. 5) Finally, I would like to say to Blizzard I have never been more excited for an expansion. I was originally upset because of the posts regarding removal of dimensional rift which is my favorite spell and now we get a longer lasting portal spell in Demonology? What?? This is awesome. The talents are awesome and they are worthwhile and have the class fantasy element in them. Blizzard, my only suggestion and compromise for the haters of the Imp Mother theme is to have a talent that sacrifices your "internal hatchery" to have a permanent Imp Mother pet that has an ability to spawn imps instead of the Warlock doing it. Either way, I love spawning imps all over the place and I look forward to trying these changes out for myself! To anyone responding to this or down voting please be constructive and do not post anything about "dots" or "addons" thank you.Sspirit28 1h
1h Affliction Warlock BFA not good So far from what i have see in videos of affliction game play in BFA doesnt sound that good, basically we are back to WoD affliction, good single target but mediocre AoE since we will lost soul flame and seed of corruption got nerfed. This will put us in big disadvantage with classes that can do both things, we wont perform well in mythic plus dungeons, probably it will be good for single target raids, i hope that blizzard still make some changes to the class cause affliction is the spec i like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6py271gOioOjoverde4 1h
2h Let Zandalari be Paladins I don't see why they can't be. I mean. Their culture falls in line with the paladin class even more so than the Sunwalkers. It basically screams spiritual warrior. I hope blizzard allows for them.Gerethan52 2h
2h Brewmaster Talent Feedback For the most part I really like the brewmaster talent tree, but there is some staleness on certain rows that I wanted to give feedback on. Row 45: Black ox brew feels good to use, but compared to the other options there's really no competition. Light brewing just doesn't hold up as a valid option. I understand and respect it being the "Easy Mode" choice, but I feel like it should still be a valid choice for veterans given the right situation. Doing this by tweaking the numbers would probably be a mistake as it would just come down to a math problem based on your haste of if it's worth taking or not. A more interesting fix could be to make it cause Ironskin brew to stagger more damage based on your health percentage or the size of the attack. Alternatively it could make Ironskin brew a passive but stagger less damage, or some combination of the two. Gift of the mists I like the idea of it being a go to for self healing, but going into BFA we will be losing the legendary effects, it might be a good opportunity to replace it with some combination of legendary/relic effects. Good candidates being Gai Plin's Soothing Sash (purify healing belt) and Quick Sip (Empowered Artifact Golden Trait) The tier 21 4p could make a great addition in one of the other rows as well, potentially in place of Chi wave, or Invoke Nuizao. giving the player some choice in AoE situations to not choose Rushing Jade Wind once the legendary brewmaster chest is removed. Blackout Combo is a great ability but as a player it feels bad to have options to combo that are simply such bad choices that ever doing so is simply a mistake,or only ever done by mistake. (namely Blackout Combo -> Purifying brew/Breath of Fire) Blackout Combo -> Breath of Fire should reduce it's cool down such that you shouldn't feel the requirement to take Rushing Jade Wind (reducing it's cooldown by 6 or even not going on cooldown when combo-ed) Blackout Combo -> Purifying brew should really have a more impact effect, such as some self healing/shielding, purifying extra over time. or increasing the amount of damage you stagger. Blackout Combo might make a good candidate to be made baseline and baked into the specialization and replaced with a different talent that could be a go to for content you out gear.Voltibeer3 2h
2h Make a stand! Do not buy BfA! This is not acceptable! Make a stand, make a difference! Tell them that we will not buy a expansion where they prune us and regift what they've taken. I will list what has been taken from one spec I play Enhancement... What Enhancement has lost... Earth Elemental totem Fire Elemental totem Tremor totem Grounding totem Searing totem Magma Totem Windfury weapon imbue Feral Spirit healing group/utility Grace of air totem Strength of Earth totem Stormlash totem Healing stream totem Healing tide totem Stone Bulwark totem Ascendance baseline Shamanistic rage Flame shock Earth shock Frost shock Unleash elements Fire nova Make a stand! DO NOT BUY BFA! MAKE YOURSELVES HEARD! They need to earn our money, it isn't free to them. No 120 ability, no new talent row....NO MONEY¡!!!!!!Victor51 2h
2h artifact weapons in BfA ok so it's known that artifact weapons are going away but what about appearances for them? also what about hati for beast mastery hunter bc i feel like that's a fundamental part of that class spec now. what about all the artifact bonuses that helped make us powerful, is that now just all going away?Pegiey2 2h
2h BFA DK Disappointment It looks like they are sticking to their word about not changing classes very much. Wish they would listen more. Classes need to be reworked more than they think. I look forward to class improvement changes as much as getting new content. Maybe more! My wishlist on the DK forums below (posted in DK forum.) I think the foundation of the specs are solid, but we need utility back! -Bring back all presences. -Bring back deaths advance -AMZ, Darksim, Necrotic Strike should be baseline for all specs -Frost should have strangulate and obliterate should do some frost damage. -Unholy, Asphyxiate should be baseline. Debilitating infestation should be taken out. In Asphyxiate and DI place, make talents that buff your pet in different ways similar to sludge belcher. -make pet UI better. My own selfish wish is that they would make a new presence for blood where it can be a petless 2h dps spec. Kind of how glad stance was for warriors in WoD or how blood worked in WotLK.Diecruxx31 2h
3h Bring Back Spec Specific Weapon Variety PLEASE 2h enh shamans, 2h frost dks, dw unholy dks possibly some new ones like 2h ww monks or those 2h havoc demon hunters I see flying around or whatever you get the picture. It's so boring to be forced into one weapon play style per spec. Blizzard Please Change this.Shewasntrdy10 3h
3h Mage direction in BfA is pretty bad right now We need some serious overhauls going on. Fire - Most people would say that 7.0 fire was either the greatest iteration of the spec, or even as far to say that it was the greatest iteration of a caster spec. This isn't from a damage perspective, this is from a playstyle perspective. Blizzard should be aiming to emulate that, but instead there are extremely questionable design decisions. -Phoenix Flames being a talent, on the same row as AF and FO. This effectively hits being able to fill out the combustion window. PF is the one artifact ability that mages have that SHOULD have been made baseline. It's fun to use, has multiple applications for it's use, and gives fire a button that has weight to it. -Critical mass\Enhanced Pyrotechnics are still in a bad spot. The spec does not feel like it plays well without 50-55% critical strike. This has caused fire initially be the fastest scaling spec in 7.0 (which is where many said it was OP), but it's scaling completely fell off the deep end later on, resulting in fire receiving the most (or close to it) hot fix buffs throughout the entire expansion -Rune of Power still exists. Cooldown stacking is "interesting", but ultimately does hurt the spec in a lot of regards and RoP is the biggest factor to this. It needs removed or nerfed, and the amount of damage that's done outside of those windows need brought up, while the burst window needs a slight hit. Combustion needed a nerf through the cooldown stacking, not through no longer being able to completely fill it out. -T90 is still pretty uninteresting. LB is the only fun ability on that tier, UM is not an interesting passive, and in a lot of cases the passive being a cleave effect is 100% redundant in what it actually does to our mastery. Meteor should really be moved to this row, and we should get a new 100 talent. Frost - -Very little actually done to this spec right now on the alpha, it's the most "hurt" by the passives lost from Ebonchill -Proc rates from BF and FoF need drastically increased -BF itself is still somewhat redundant in it's functionality to FoF, in the legion alpha it was set to reset the cooldown on frozen orb, but that felt bad so we effectively got frost fire bolt 2.0. Flurry still isn't that interesting of a button. -Several of our talents are "dead", they aren't really applicable and with several of the legendaries being removed that will prevent some that see use in situations now no longer see any use such as artic gale -Frost bomb as a "damage injector" AoE talent completely and totally fails what it wants to do -T100 is still a problem, almost to the point that all of them should be more or less removed or redesigned. Many frost mages would LOVE comet storm baseline (which hey, this would be a FANTSTIC proc brain freeze replacement for flurry!),TV still scales kinda funny, and GS still double dips. -Our mastery sucks, and gets worse with the loss of things like black ice. Arcane - Can you please just stop whatever it is your trying to do with this spec, the #ArcaneDream discord have collectively scratched there heads at this, some of us saying if these changes go through that the dream is likely dead. -Most depth with arcane charges removed -AM now costing mana, not being triggered by procs -Clearcasting procs now effectively do the same thing as AM procs, but conflicting design with AM being a more efficent mana dump while the design doesn't allow that -Kilt, Gravity Spinal, and Arcane familiar should be T15, not that hot mess -AO not baseline -AoE still requires a ranged spec that takes ranged mechanics to go in melee range -T90 is a joke, erosion is a bad passive mechanic, UM is not any further interesting, but at least it makes up for the fact that arcane has zero two target cleave -Slipstream needs to be passive, a spec that is based around mana and is required to evocate needs protection on evocation -T60 and T90 have awkward talent placements, both rows have clear cut ST talents and clear cut AoE talents, but most of the AoE talents (outside of resonance) are just hilariously bad I get "why" arcane is getting so many changes, because if you mess up the mana management which isn't entirely complicated in of itself, it's by far the most punishing DPS spec to play in the game. There are talent options that could be introduced to alleviate that (such as what I recommend for T15), but the response to this should be to removed 90% of the depth from the spec. The current iteration needs scrapped. People who play arcane right now play it because they love it, and when many of those people have a half statement of "I may never go back to this spec again", then there's a big problem.Disagreed31 3h
4h [Druid] Displacer Beast in BFA Reading through the patch notes and nothing seems out of the ordinary, till I happened across the fact that Displacer Beast is being removed. You're removing a fantastic mobility talent and replacing it with something that has a far longer CD and barely any viable use. Displacer is used by Druids to get away from stuff that otherwise would kill them, making us one of the more mobile classes in the game simply because this talent exists, and for good reason. Without it we might as well be a Priest with a small speed boost attached to a GCD. If you're going to prune something make it viable, but taking this away makes absolutely no sense at all. Please rethink this. Edit: I was actually just using it today during a +15 HoV as Resto. I was able to get off 2 GCD's that saved us from wiping just because I had Displacer Beast at my disposal to shift forwards out of the Dragon Breath that would have otherwise killed me. Antorus is another fantastic example, if you're hotting someone but you're slightly out of position, Displacer puts you back into position without having to run there, which is what this new talent is going to force us to do. Have to stack for a mechanic but you're not in melee range? You're going to have to run there, rather than just blinking in quickly and easily. And if this is going to be taking over the spot of Displacer, then you're going to see every single Druid in existence using Wild Charge because this new iteration is going to replace our Dash, so it's basically just putting it on a shorter CD for the sake of a small mobility boost, when you can literally just wild charge to an ally off-gcd. I'm actually never going to use that talent, I'll just be salty that you removed Displacer from my class. If this is about Displacer being "overpowered" in PvP, then remove the speed boost attached to i t and leave the blink effect. The Blink itself is huge, I rarely find myself making use of the speed boost because once I've re-positioned I go straight back to caster form to continue healing, in both PvP and PvE. Again, please rethink this choice, because overall it makes very little sense. Serrow70 4h
4h Please fix druid changing forms One of the biggest changes to druids come legion was the cooldown on forms when leaving them. From both a pve and pvp perspective it doesn't make any sense to have this in, the only benefit i can see from it would be protection of ashamane. I assumed it was added in so players wouldn't accidentally proc the ability and instantly remove it when leaving and returning to cat form. Feral is the only class I play and throughout this expansion the cooldown on forms has been the main issue preventing me from actually enjoying it. Every time I have to change out of form I'm always reminded of how clunky the system has become.Kyoski13 4h
4h Pruning/Lack of Complexity - BFA alpha (pls read bliz) Before I start this post I want to get this out of the way. Just because it is the alpha doesn't mean that the main class design philosophy of the classes won't pan out when the game goes live. It has been proven that pruning and lack of class complexity has not worked. And I'll tell you why. When Warlords of Draenor came out, and even in the alpha/beta cycles, many people did not enjoy their class neither did they like that fact that a slew of cool/unique abilities got taken away with no compensation. The only people who liked this change were people who didn't want to learn their class to its full potential or cared about their class. These people most likely were casual/fairweather players who don't really care about the game, nor wanted to better themselves and get better at the game. After all the backlash from the pruning the response from Blizzard was, "We took away abilities so we can add new ones in the future." When legion came out the same thing happened, people on the forums cried out and begged Blizzard to not prune more abilities. But they did, a 2nd time. Not only were more abilities removed, but the core of most classes was completely demolished and twisted into disgusting and deformed versions of their former selves. So Blizzard, I thought you said you pruned because you wanted to add NEW ABILITIES, not take baseline abilities and put them as talents and even prune more than legion. So no, do not take this as a grain of salt because its alpha, because the same thing was done 2 expansion back to back, and its about to happen again if we don't speak up. People want their classes back, 10+ years of class design and iteration was competently thrown out of the window in legion. Please go back too your roots.Aamonx29 4h
4h Class fantasy is dead So I typed some salty paragraphs below but I want to put in some things I believe will make the game better from a class design aspect before you read my salt. Looking at alpha and playing wod/legion ruined my class immersion and here's some things to bring it back imo: (yes I realize that most of these have been talked to death about with no results) -multiple point talent trees -spec specific spells(bring back old or add new spells idc just add to my spellbook) -totems totems totems totems totems totems and some more god dang totems -Take away pvp talent spells and add them to baseline spells for all players to use -Give reasons for pvp players to pve and pve players to pvp (and no not weekly 10 win caps) -for the love of Azeroth make Wpvp a thing again -get rid of this "you are the champion" aspect of the game, I dont want to be "the" guy I want to be "a" guy in a vast world who, with a long journey and hard work, has become better than the other "a" guys in the game SALTY SHAMAN WARNING: Do I feel like playing a range dps or a melee dps today? Or maybe i'm so bored I'll try healing. I'm sure as hell not a shaman anymore. The pruning needs to stop, I no longer feel like the class I play. Every melee and range dps feels the same. I have never had so much trouble finding a main to play in an expansion, every class I have tried has the same watered down feel with different animations. I have been a shaman for over half my life and I no longer feel like I play shaman. All my spells are gone with no (FUN) compensation. I have leveled everything to 110 except for a DK at this point and guess what... my keybind rotation is pretty much the same for all my toons. Nothing feels unique other than DH double jump and maybe rogues' stealth. I understand if rogues, druids, and maybe BM hunters feel like their class still because rogues still stealth and gank, druids still shapeshift and BM hunters have tons of pets. But do the rest of us truly feel like our classes anymore? This has turned into a complaining salty post because I honestly think this game is too far gone to ever have the classes back to the way they felt before. At least the art and story teams have their stuff on point. Bringing in Diablo devs ruined this game. It's not their fault, I don't think, since they are just doing what they know worked for their game. It just hurts my nerdy soul to no longer feel like my class and only feel like a class role. This game means so much to a lot of people and the pruning is killing my thrill for it. I like to think Classic will save it but I honestly don't know anymore because God only knows what they will do to it. https://imgur.com/a/ahqv5Qüø23 4h
5h 2H Frost DK There is huge discussion about this and we would love too have 2h frost returned. Even just a glyph to let us xmog to a 2h for the aesthetics would be amazing. Arthas was a frost death knight with a 2h so, so can we be. PLEASE BLIZZARD.Naethrorn31 5h
6h Can we get a new lvl 120 talent tier? Hey there, while leveling I couldn't happen but notice that we get a new talent tier every 15 levels. However in the last 2 tiers we go from 90-100. 10 levels in between instead of the normal 15. Which made sense for WoD and Legion. I had gotten excited when I realized that the level 100 talent tier would probably now be unlocked at level 105 and that there would probably be an all new level 120 tier. I decided to check on WoWHead and some alpha footage on YouTube, to find that at least as of now; we have no new talent tier. I guess that's okay but I've always liked getting that new ability to use when I reach max level.Nightfallen20 6h
6h #RevertThePrune Deleting beloved abilities that we have had since 2004 is no way to design these classes. Nerfing utility across the board is no way to design these classes. Down with the Pruned Classes, bring back Spellbooks which are rich with options!!Himwhogazes24 6h
6h Lack of Character Progression from 100-110 in BFA What character progression will you make from 100-110 when this new expansion releases? Will we have artifact weapons for 10-12 levels? If not, there should be some sort of progression/achievement for your character. I think we should at least get a 110 talent row like milestones similar to MoP and WoD. Thoughts?Telvanni12 6h
7h remove hellfire wow i just notice that u guys re-introduce hellfire for destro as a talent, lol what the heck? 4 soulshards for killing myself and deal mediocre dmgs plz no remove it or at least make it ala blast nova just a single explosion and cost x shards but old hellfire was bad, and u make it even worse cuse u make it cost shards. what the hell are u guys thinking? less bring back !@#$ty spells and make it really resource expesive and call it a day? what? whats the point forcing ppl to choose unfun mechanicsMoneymike18 7h
7h Blizzard. One mage question if you dare... I know money is the name of the game and you would rather sell knick-knacks and dolls and mounts etc. But lets talk about the game for a minute. Mages have terrible representation, the worst since Arena introduction. The Mage forums are full of complaints about how bad the mage class is. Can you shed some light on what you intend to do about it , if anything? Or are you happy with the mage state of being? Its literally been almost a year since any kind of feedback, response anything from Blizzard to the Mage community. Surely you can spare a little bit of time to respond to your customers right? Blizzard, cant you at least say "Mages are fine and we like where they are at" or "we see the rankings, frustrations and their popularity drop, we are looking into it"?? Anything....are you alive, Blizzard? Do you even care?Meatballzz1 7h
8h Legion Survival for Demon Hunters? What do you think of turning Legion Survival into the 3rd DH spec? +Survival goes back to MoP-era gameplay- in this way, [demon]hunters keep and improve SV's melee gameplay and fantasy, AND Survival goes back to where it should be. Torment (working spec title, think NPC "Allari the Souleater") Damage-dealer*. Primary Stat: Intellect. Using blade, arcane runes and soulstones, this tenacious soul-stealer destroys enemies with their own captured essence. Legion Survival Hunter gameplay recreated as DH's 3rd spec but magic runes and soulstones replacing traps and explosives, and the "Harpoon" ability is essentially the DH tethering their polearm/blades to their opponent's soul. They use those soulstones to store parts of their enemy's soul, then destroy the stones with a mixture of spells, granting the DH different buffs and/or utilities including: - An outright damage buff/burst - A slow. - Knockback. - AOE interrupt - Increased armor. It can potentially be like the old Retribution "seal-bending", where good use of the toolkit allows the character more buffs- ergo more dps, and poor-use leads to lack of armor/health and eventually a lack of dps/or resultant death. *Alternately, this could be another hybrid dps/healing spec, alike but reverse output to the Disc priest, where consuming particular soulstones heals the player and immediate melee fighting beside them. Anyway, the idea consumed me for a good hour. Hope it sounds like fun.Annun0 8h
9h Abilities becoming talents.. so what? So, there's a lot of rage against abilities becoming talents. But other than the usual 'sky is falling' argument, I genuinely fail to see the real issue here. Talents exist exactly to allow each player to customize their preferred playstyle or rotation. For example, Shadow Word: Death will become a talent. If you enjoy this ability now and like having extra buttons, then just take the talent in BfA. Otherwise, don't take the talent. Isn't this simple? I mean, what's the difference between (1) choosing Shadow Word: Death as talent and (2) having it baseline and choosing another passive on top of it? Is this just a question of having more and more abilities/passives each new expansion? If yes, then what's the threshold? Or maybe is this just a question of having tasted an ability and losing it? If this is the answer.. ok, fair enough.. but what about power creep? I really don't want to be rude here. I genuinely would like to understand more logical arguments for the actual issue people are complaining.Axmor32 9h
9h Character progression suggestion So in the spell book spells seem to stop around level 80 for most classes if you are not counting hero classes. Why not allow the player to gain new spells/passives from level 81-120. Other than that you can add back the glyph system where players get a new glyph slot based on their level. There really was nothing wrong with the glyph system besides trading something to make somethimg work better. The talent system is very vague and boring. The pruning cookie cutter build just seems so bad. Talents are meant to be more spread out in a tree format. Why not break every specialization into three different paths. For example a mage. Fire mage has 3 paths. 1st allows you to become a battle-mage 2nd alows you to become a blood mage 3rd allows you to focus primarily on just fire spells. Each path allows the player to spend 31 points. You gain points every 2-3 levels. You can also choose to level up a different path in the specialization or become a hybrid of specialization by leveling talents from a different specialization in combination. This allows for tons of customization for classes. Not to mention there will already be a cap, you just gotta choose a second path if you maxed out 1 path. You class playstyle,spells and rotation will chane based on the path you take.Eviljaina3 9h
11h Demo locks My two cents: - Please don't implement Demon Commander. It's lame; stick the Summon Infernal/Doomguard on that cooldown timer. - Summon Vile Fiend is lame. Make that summon Dark Glare. - Please no Bat Bombardment skill. It's looks terrible. Rolling my eyes everytime I cast that is going to give me a headache. - Doom baseline. - Give Dreadstalkers a hamstring.Zsigmond10 11h
11h Return Ranged Survival Hunter The experiment was not successful. Most of us did not ask for a melee spec it was forced. Either revert Survival to MoP or add a 4th spec for Hunters that retains the old playstyle of SV. Edit - I made this Hunter 8 years ago and SV was my favorite spec through 4 expansions. Legion changes made me quit this character for a year, and after coming back and trying to play it again I can not stand the class anymore. You deleted a ranged option in a game where we are already extremely limited compared to magic casters and melee. I can't play a gun or bow user on any other class. How can you say Legion was focused on class fantasy and then delete a spec? MM is not even close to old SV. It's a boring and bland physical caster. There's no serpent sting, explosives, or any other elemental shots. edit 2 - BfA alpha's been out and SV is still a melee but with some random ranged abilities thrown in. Seems like SV is likely to be stuck in a weird melee state for quite a while so RIP. MM basically cut all non-physical shots out so an even more bland and slow version of live. Hope more changes are in progress.Yura349 11h
12h PvP Templant in WPvP phase! Since in next expansion all server are converted in PVE servers, and who want do world PvP are transferred to exclusive PvP world (phase), there no more excuses to enable PvP Templant On PvP world! Like BG's and Arena's PvP Templant will value what's really important on PvP, your skills, not your gear! And also fix the problem of legendary items! Hope blizz has learn with epic fail in shattrath! WPvP is not trick, or cheating! World PvP is the true spirit of PvP any time, any where! Like a survivor game inside RPG, any time you may finishing one quest and someone can attack you! This dangerous, this adrenaline, to be 1vs1 and the stay alive is your reward! This is WPvP! And PvE gear no more can domine this! This is unacceptable! Hope blizz finally fix WPvP with PvP Templant!Eektheçåt9 12h
14h BFA MM/BM hunter Feedback This feedback is based off of my research from various websites and youtube videos. MM- in my opinion the current Alpha built of marksman hunter looks very good. The builder/ spender aspect I feel works much better for the MM hunter than a damage window. The current alpha build looks to offer a smooth single target rotation and an fun aoe rotation . Im very happy to see that the hunter will again shine at target swapping thanks to the new Aimed shot build. BM - I LOVE THE CURRENT ALPHA BUILD OF BM , CHANGE NOTHINGBigdoss7 14h
16h (PSA) It's all a joke guys! haHA@! BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP (The following statements do not reflect the thoughts or actions of Blizzard or it's affiliates)(They more so reflect the current mental state of the poster) Friendly neighbor Nicolie here! I'm just in time to give you guys some huge news! (Reminisce and fantasize at your own risk.) ``In BFA they are giving us back our large talent trees. You get to water your talent trees and watch them grow! Cha Cha Chia! ``Feral Druids will be able to pounce without using a talent point on it. `No death from falling in Feral spec. ``Vampiric Embrace turns the priest into a Vampire for 10 sec, making the next shadow or vampire ability leeching HP from it's target every 3 sec and distributing it evenly among your injured party or allied members. `Void Eruption buried outside of SW and ORG for all to visit and go into the void realm for eternity if you choose. And all current Shadow-Void Priest will be deleted and banned from the game. The ones that have expressed their disgust for Void Form will be saved but you have to start at lvl 1 and only level in empowered Shadow form or you will die also. You get to keep ur gear. Thank you, Nicolie These are only the classes I am interested in, I did not hear about the other changes.... I fell asleep during those parts... Do you guys remember?Nicolie0 16h
16h Recolor PW:Shield for Shadow I'm sure this pops up on the forums all the time, but I'd love to see an update to Power Word: Shield that makes it more fitting visually, for Shadow. Even if it's just a glyph for a recolor of the current spell effect.Maerne5 16h
18h Applying for Class Dev job Hi i would like to apply for the class dev job for hunters. I figure it doesn't take much experience. When can i start?Sürval8 18h
19h BFA Class design, ability pruning & PvP Class fantasy (that turned out to be "spec fantasy"), resulted in every spec feeling like their own micro-classes. The class kit that is supposed to classify you as said class is too small, and nothing feels whole or complete as a result. Some specs have 1.5 pages of abilities/passives at max lvl, that is an insultingly low amount when there used to be 4-5 pages for every class/spec. I tried every class, but there is nothing enjoyable to me in Legion at all. There's no complexity like the previous expansions had, the gap between a bad player and an amazing player is too small, players of all calibers can't be differentiated from one another like in the past as the options you have before you are too cut and dry. It gets boring SO QUICK. Subtlety & Outlaw Rogues lost poisons, CC was split up by spec, and Preparation was removed entirely, effectively cutting Rogues defensives in half. This crushed their identity, specs were already different before Legion, having specs share nothing but stealth was clearly prioritizing spec fantasy over class fantasy, and that need to be rectified. You take away something as core as poisons and gouge and the traditional Rogue class ceases to exist. It would be like removing traps from Hunters (whoops, they did that but thankfully brought them back), or like removing Charge from Warriors, or Blink from Mages. Casters have become too one-dimensional by being restricted to one school of magic, this makes the interrupt meta one-dimensional and boring for both the interrupter and the caster. The answer is NOT to prune CC, or nerfing interrupts, or giving locks/shams/sp interrupt reductions. What casters need are more off-spec/multischool abilities again, having something to cast when interrupted on your main school or to bait interrupts on another school adds layers upon layers of counterplay, thats what PvP needs to be enjoyable to play. Why can't I cast Blizzard, or Ice Lance, or Fire Blast, or Arcane Explosion regardless of spec? Why can't Affliction Warlocks cast Immolate or Searing Pain, why can't Destruction Warlocks cast corruption? etcetc. When I look at e.g Holy Priests, they've lost their iconic Priest spells like Psychic Scream, Shadow Word: Pain, Power Word: Shield, Power Word: Fortitude (all of these scream Priest to me), Holy looks like a completely different class after that. Every Priest should have Shadow/Power word spells, Renew, Flash Heal, and so on. Shadow Word: Death is shadow only (has been for some time), and supposedly now turning into a talent in BfA, this is a massive mistake, so is keeping it restricted to Shadow only. This ability used to be one of, if not, the most skillful ability in the entire game due its backsplash damage, you could break yourself out of any CC that breaks on damage by deathing just before you got e.g blinded/polymorphed, the delayed backsplash damage would then break you out of it. This is the type of mechanics PvP is DYING to have again. Discipline priests have this type of gameplay with Premonition, but why limit it to just Discipline, and while in PvP combat only? Its time to bring back this skillful mechanic to every Priest spec. Druids. Whats the point of having shapeshifting forms, if you have next to no abilities to use within them? It makes no sense, every druid is a shapeshifter and should have a complete kit in bearform and catform. Why do Warriors root you like a Mage/Druid when they charge, what happened to charge stun? The outplay potential with Charge stun is direly needed, the root is meaningless. Why don't Warriors have stances or shields to play offensively/defensively with anymore? I could go on and on, every class is having a class identity crisis. Hunters were handled poorly. Their core identity has always been: a ranged dps, with a pet, and traps. You split that up for no good reason and now you have 3 boring specs that are either: A madman "sniper" who wildly AoE's everything in sight, A zookeeper who sends disposable pets at you and uses his gun for one single attack, or A melee spec noone signed up for when they picked a Hunter to begin with. I thought bringing back the old melee abilities for Survival was cool, but to have them lose the bow and go 100% melee? That was a ridiculous decision, but BfA SV is looking much better, I can only hope the playstyle gets any closer to this beautiful gameplay from Danaik 3 triple D: http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=122825 Pruning has been happening for a long time, I get that you can't keep literally every single ability added since 2004, but WoD and especially Legion pruning were overkill, in Legion specifically: Too much was outright pruned. Too much was gated behind certain specs. Too much was gated behind talents. Too much was gated behind max level PvP talents. Too much was gated behind max level Artifacts. Too much was gated behind max level legendaries.Chritznl88 19h