Class Development

3d PvP Hotfixes - February 26 We've identified the following fixes that we're working to make live later today: Monk Brewmaster Guard can no longer be applied to non-player targets such as pets and guardians. Paladin Protection Fist of Justice now reduces the cooldown of Hammer of Justice by 5 seconds in PvP (was 10 seconds). Priest Discipline Fixed a bug where Trinity's bonus 20% Atonement healing transfer was increasing Atonement heals by more than intended. Fixed a bug where Atonement's bonus 15% healing transfer in PvP was increasing Atonement heals by more than intended. Rogue Assassination Fixed a bug that caused Kingsbane's damage to be higher than intended in PvP situations. We expect to implement all of these changes simultaneously to all regions in a few hours, and you'll see them in today's full hotfixes update in our blog.Kaivax25 3d
Jan 19, 2017 Discussion Forum Guidelines Guidelines In addition to the forum Code of Conduct (http://forums.battle.net/forum-coc.html), here are some common courtesy guidelines to follow. While these do technically fall within the bounds of the Code of Conduct, these cover more specific examples of common errors that will lead to thread deletions or posting privileges being revoked. The World of Warcraft forums are for discussion of topics directly related to World of Warcraft. The forums here are specifically to discuss the game and related topics. Any topics not related to World of Warcraft, Battle.net, or Blizzard Entertainment are subject to deletion. Don't post in all capital letters, use a misleading title, excessive punctuation, and/or non-standard symbols, etc. While everyone wants their posts read, we ask you to refrain from using these types of tactics in order to bring more people to your thread. Let your post stand on its own merit. Threads violating this guideline are subject to deletion. Using the words "Blizzard," "Blue," or any community team members' names in a thread topic is frowned upon. Everyone would like Blizzard to read and acknowledge his or her post, and we understand that; however, use of such words in the subject line does not help that come to pass. Please make your thread title relevant to the post subject. Threads violating this guideline are subject to deletion. Posting "First" or IBTL ("in before lock") constitutes as spamming. You will be suspended if you create a post that is intended to call out that you achieved a specific reply number in a thread. This is considered spamming. Posting IBTL ("in before the lock") is not helpful, and if you feel a thread should be moderated please use the rating button to do so. Do not "bump" posts. The act of posting simply to bump a thread is considered spamming. This also includes bumping very old threads for no reason (called "necro bumping" or "necroing"). Petition posts are frowned upon. These are discussion forums and, as such, we ask that you hold discussions. Creating a thread to ask for replies as votes is not a discussion. Threads violating this guideline are subject to deletion. Do not post about locked or deleted threads. Posts that are moderated have a reason behind the moderation. It's up to you to read the forum Code of Conduct and these guidelines to determine what you did wrong, learn from your mistake, and attempt to post again without breaking any rules. There is also cool down period we institute during times of high forum traffic. If you are violating policy during one of these times due to frustration, you will be given a three-hour cool down suspension. This does not get logged on your record and is simply in place to keep the forums readable and civil. Serious violations will still have the appropriate action taken against them as documented in the Code of Conduct, and we do keep track of these cool down periods separately—if one is found to be repeatedly violating policy, appropriate action will be taken.Lore0 Jan 19, 2017
Jan 19, 2017 Welcome. Please Read! Welcome to the Class Development forum! This forum is here to provide you with a friendly environment where you can discuss the ongoing development of Class Design in Legion with your fellow World of Warcraft players. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy, so we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct (http://us.battle.net/en/community/conduct) and guidelines (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/15252595157) before posting. Important Reminders: Search The search function at the top of the World of Warcraft community site is extremely effective and robust. Before you create a new forum topic, please be use it to search for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer for which you are looking. Making a new thread on an existing subject can result in your thread being deleted or, if you continue to re-post the same content, the loss of your forum privileges for spamming. Rating The forum rating system can be used to promote positive discussion, demote unhelpful comments, and even report posts that violate the forum Code of Conduct. By hovering over a post you'll be presented with several options, including a "thumbs up" (Like) and a "thumbs down" (Dislike) icon. Clicking the "thumbs up" icon will rate the post up. If enough people like a post, it will gain a Highly Rated status and appear at the top of related search results. Highly Rated posts will also have a highlighted background. Clicking the "thumbs down" icon will expand a drop-down menu which will include "Dislike," "Trolling, "Spam" and "Report" options. "Dislike" will rate the post down. If enough people dislike a post, it will be darkened, and with a lot of dislikes it will be hidden completely. You can also quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of a violation. Please note that you can only rate each post once. Use your power wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community. Have fun posting on these forums, and good luck with your adventures in Azeroth and the Broken Isles!Lore0 Jan 19, 2017
1m Let's Actually Talk About Pruning Without hurling insults at one another at how bad they are because of their lack of any worthy achievements (which I have done, multiple times), putting aside emotion and communicating purely with reason. If you recognize my name then it's obvious that I am against pruning, but if you are for it, try to change my mind. Please don't use the argument of more $$$ for Blizzard as an argument, that doesn't really help our cause. Also don't use fun as an argument, as fun is subjective. So go ahead and hit me with your best shot, I will gladly destroy your arguments, with logic of course :D. Let me start: I think the pruning of classes reduces the skill cap of the game by removing buttons overall (since being able to press your buttons is the mechanical skill of the game) and by reducing decision making (more buttons = more decision making). So give me a reason as to why reducing the skill cap is not a bad thing, or how pruning classes does not actually reduce the skill cap. Or give me an entirely different argument, just try to change my (and other people who are for pruning's) mind.Namjoo14 1m
12m MM Hunter spec problems I'll start with a positive note: vulnerability is gone. Thank you! Now for some issues: 1. A class that must remain stationary for long casts (cannom effectively kite) must have powerful CC, or hit like a mack truck. MM will suffer severely in pvp for having stationary aimed shot. 2. Aimed shot restrictions. Aimed shot is limited by charges, has a long cast time, cannot be used while moving, AND has a high focus cost. 4 severe limitations on 1 ability will utterly destroy this spec. It's very lazy design work. 3. Steady shot/arcane don't play well together. Arcane is simply a focus dump that's rarely used. GCD locked at 1.5 secs, high focus cost of other abilities, throw serrated shot in the mix and you run into a situation where even if you end up with focus to dump, the GCD will simply restrict you from doing so because your next aimed or rapid is ready to go. It bogs down the rotation. 4. Binding shot and posthaste on the same talent row. Both of these talents are 100% necessary for Pvp. My suggestions for improvements: 1. Ditch steady shot. It's slow and boring. Make arcane shot an instant cast focus builder, and reduce the focus gain from 10 down to something more appropriate for an instant. 2. Make aimed castable while moving. It's a no-brainer. Learn some lessons from Legion... 3. Do something interesting with arcane/aimed. Lock and load (and other talents) that have a chance to proc off auto attacks are horrid. Enough of the random crap. Make things proc off arcane, giving the player some control over the proc rate. Eliminating steady shot, and having arcane shot proc buffs or CD reductions to aimed would give a nice synergy.Angris9 12m
15m Guardian Druid: Dual Weild Fist Weapons. Please allow Guardian Druids to Dual Weild Fist Weapons. Its simple it fits the class fantasy a lot more than a Polearm or a Staff. Weapons like claws for Bears make sense especially after the looking at the Legendary Weapon we have in Legion, "Claws of Ursoc". Its been one of my pet peeves about Bears since vanilla and I was overjoyed when you guys finally added the legendary. (I actually remember sending help, and putting forum post requests for this ability back then.)Greenstone2 15m
25m 8.0 Alpha Marksman Feedback The alpha for Battle for Azeroth has begun, and I would like to present some feedback on the changes thus far. UPDATED FOR BUILD 26433 on 4/13/18 Discussion as of this update begins as of this post: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20760917770?page=41#post-809 Core rotational abilities: Aimed Shot: 30 Focus, 40 yd range, 3 sec cast, 12 sec recharge, 2 charges A powerful aimed shot that deals 180% of AP Physical damage. Damage increased by 50% against a target you have not damaged. Arcane Shot Instant, 15 Focus A quick shot that causes 48% of AP Arcane damage. Multi-Shot 15 Focus, 40 yd range, Instant cast Fires several missiles, hitting your current target and all enemies within 8 yards for 40% of AP Physical damage. Rapid Fire (NEW) Channeled (3 sec cast), 20 sec cooldown Shoot a stream of 10 shots at your target, dealing a total of 400% of AP Physical damage. Each shot generates 2 Focus. Usable while moving. Steady Shot (NEW) 2 sec cast A steady shot that causes 60% Physical damage. Usable while moving. Generates 10 Focus. Trueshot Instant, 3 min cooldown Immediately gain 1 charge of Aimed Shot, and gain 30% Haste for 15 sec. Windburst (REMOVED) Marked Shot (REMOVED) Passives: Mastery: Sniper Training (UNCHANGED) Lone Wolf (NOW BASELINE) Increases your damage by 10% when you do not have an active pet. Trick Shots (NOW BASELINE) When Multi-Shot hits 3 or more targets, your next Aimed Shot will ricochet and hit up to 5 additional targets, or each shot of your next Rapid Fire will ricochet to an additional nearby target. Precise Shots (NEW) Aimed Shot causes your next 1-2 Arcane Shots to deal 100% more damage. Hunting Party (REMOVED) Marksman's Focus (REMOVED) Marking Targets (REMOVED) Hunter's Mark (REMOVED) Vulnerable (REMOVED) Utility: Command Pet (NEW) Instant Commands your pet to perform its unique ability. This ability will transform based on the specialization of your active pet. Ferocity: Primal Rage Tenacity: Survival of the Fittest Cunning: Master's Call Bursting Shot (NERFED) 10 Focus, Attack speed, 30 sec cooldown Fires an explosion of bolts at all enemies in front of you, knocking them back, snaring them by 50% for 4 sec, and dealing 5.27% of AP Physical damage. Concussive Shot (NERFED) 40 yd range, Instant, 8 sec cooldown Dazes the target, slowing movement speed by 50% for 6 sec. Counter Shot (UNCHANGED) Disengage (UNCHANGED) Exhilaration (UNCHANGED) Freezing Trap (UNCHANGED) Misdirection (UNCHANGED) Tar Trap (BUFFED) 40 yd range, Instant, 30 sec cooldown Hurls a tar trap to the target location that creates a 8 yd radius pool of tar around itself for 30 sec when the first enemy approaches. All enemies have 80% reduced movement speed while in the area of effect. Trap will exist for 1 min. Tranquilizing Shot (NEW) 10 sec cooldown Removes 1 Enrage and 1 Magic effect from an enemy target. AZERITE TRAITS (NOTE - MM traits only included here. Check WoWhead for the cross-spec, BM, and SV traits. Only including traits visible on alpha gear for the time being.): In the Rhythm When Rapid Fire finishes fully channeling, your Haste is increased by 24 for 8 sec. Arcane Flurry Arcane Shot increases the damage of Arcane Shot by 63, stacking up to 2 times.Adreaver890 25m
39m Subspecs for classes There are ALOT of competing tropes for each class, and some classes have multiple tropes competing for a single spec. For example, unholy deathknights have the theme of baron rivendare, and the shadowy necromancer types competing as tropes. Spriests have the elder gods on one hand, and the san'layn on the other. Marksmen hunters have the woodsy elf type competing against an archer who shoots light arrows vs an archer who uses explosive dynamite shots, not to mention the dark ranger archetype. All of these archetypes have different basic abilities, and in the past, blizzard differentiated this via specializations. However... What if this were done via T10 talents? The first talent you get unlocks 3-4 moves that are unique to that talent. Then, the rest of the kit can be selected at will. This allows for simplified design, more moves, and less buttons. Int that what we all want?Malsiferus4 39m
43m Blizzard is dead set on simplification I personally think they have it in their head that making the game easier is the best course of action. They believe that they will gain more subs if they push a less complex game and make all classes easier to play. Logging into Alpha (yea its alpha) and seeing class bars and spell books was a little scary. We are months out and I dont think we are randomly going to get 4-5 buttons added per spec in the jump from alpha to beta. Seeing posts about Devs in Discords saying SW: Death for priest is too complex and moved to a talent tree is super disheartening. Artifact abilities that are baseline are moved to talent trees. Some flat out removed. Being vocal about this hasnt really done much. You can see the multitude of posts begging for unpruning. I wish I never got introduced to pvp s15 of MoP. It was some the most fun I have had in any game. Learning the complexity of rogues in pvp and working hard to improve and push with team was so much fun. But now that feeling of improving and learning is all but gone. Classes are void of identity despite their "class identity push" I got excited to an extent about class identity because you could have made each spec super unique and different and add multiple diff buttons that interact with each other that the other specs dont have. This did not happen at all. It was an excuse to remove 3-5 buttons and abilities that classes have had since almost vanilla. There simply are not enough buttons to press to feel like you have a skill ceiling to push towards. I dont see this changing with BFA. Hope when Beta drops Im proven wrong. But assuming with prepatch I will be uninstalling the game and just focus on smash bros tourneys more. WoW pvp and the diversity and complexity this game offered is going to just be a thing of the past. A fond memory and only that.Stickiriki43 43m
49m Blizzard's Vision For Class Design Dumbed down, excuse me "streamlined and modernized", WoW classes To think of all of the money and effort they spent on the huge Legion class revamp only to produce... this steaming pile of unrecognizable specs, completely severed from their classic feel, produced not to satisfy passionate players but to be "accessible and easy to learn" for people who want to shell out $60 for a max level boost of a class they've never even played. It honestly makes me sick. Legion is Fisher-Price WoW. I vote no confidence in the entire game design and product management teams, and particularly the game director Ion Hazzikostas. It's clear that removing Celestalon and Holinka wasn't enough and they were probably just taking orders from their boss anyway.Shoegazer34 49m
53m Blood DK - Post Leveling Hit 120 on the Alpha, and had a blast leveling. New zones are amazing, I love Drustvar. Overall I'm enjoying the changes to Blood DK, but there's a few places I'd like to provide feedback on, from the viewpoint of an 11/11M raider that also does lots of high M+ keys. Skills: Dancing Rune Weapon - Now on the GCD, the 8s duration is not long enough to fully utilize your resources. I believe it either needs to come back off the GCD, or be given another 2s to the duration. DRW is less a reactionary defense, and more of a planned tool for larger pulls, so I feel the extra 2s would be a better solution that lets you fully utilize your resources during it. Gorefiend's Grasp - Definitely needed a nerf, but I feel 20y to 15y was the wrong direction. I believe the CD should be raised to 3m, and then the Tightening Grasp talent can instead reduce the CD to 1.5m and range to 15y (tightening does make things smaller, after all). Talents: T1 - Blooddrinker is still a bit of an overpowering option, it's by far the hardest hitting thing we have available. Rune Strike's CD is a bit too high to be useful right now, and Heartbreaker is an AOE talent on a ST row. T2 - Rapid Decomp is a nice static buff, and Consumption is a nice AE burst heal. Hemostasis feel like a ST talent on an AOE row. I feel that Heartbreaker and Hemostasis should swap places. This would make the choices within T1 and T2 far more compelling. Blooddrinker burst healing and damage vs. Hemostasis flat bonus vs. Rune Strike's increased generation? Great choice. Rapid decomp flat damage vs. Heartbreaker increased generation vs. Consumption burst healing? Great choice. T3 - Rune Tap a clear winner for basically everything. Numerically it's superior reduction against magic damage than Anti-Magic Barrier, which might just be a tuning thing for AMB. Will of the Necropolis doesn't really do anything against relevant damage at the higher end. Will of the Necropolis would be a great talent if it generated a rune when you fall below 35%, and very thematically appropriate. AMB and Rune tap prolly just need some tuning. T4 - Good choices that you can tailor to the content you're doing, no complaints. T5 - Another good row. I quite like being able to play Tombstone, now that it's not competing with Red Thirst. T6 - Another lackluster tier. Voracious is a nice passive bonus, but leech is a very tiny amount of healing overall. Bloodworms being RNG attached to autoattacks is not attractive. And Mark of Blood's RP cost is too prohibitive against relevant damage, you'd never trade a Death Strike for a Mark of Blood. I think Voracious would be much better if it provided a flat increase to your RP generation, which would make maintaining the buff both easier, and very desirable. Mark of Blood is never going to be worth the RP cost, so if it was instead applied by Death Strike on hit, it would be rather cool. Bloodworms on autoattack are pretty lame, but if they take Mark of Bloods RP cost, they'll fill a gap that DKs don't currently have - a preemptive button to press when at full RP and health. T7 - Purgatory is a bit overpowering in this row, defensively. Bonestorm and Red Thirst are both very cool talents, but I don't feel they do enough to make them better than a cheat death. Red Thirst would be a much more attractive option if it gained the Umbilicus Eternus trait from our artifact weapon. Bonestorm is great healing, but the big pitfall of Bonestorm is that once you've dumped your RP, you have to build it back up, but that's hard to do if you have to use runes on Marrowrend. Bonestorm should also generate one bone per second for Bone Shield. I mean, it is a BONEstorm, after all. Conclusion: That's all I got. Blood DK is in a good place, but with some small changes it could be a lot better. Just a little bit of love for talents would go a long way to increasing our options for how we play. (I reeeeally want to use Bonestorm in M+ instead of Purgatory, it's so damn cool) Happy leveling everyone!Normita7 53m
54m Shadow Word: Death Isn’t Too Complex to Be Baseline Last night we were fortunate enough to have a dev drop by in the how2priest discord (thank you so much for sharing your thoughts!) and he mentioned this about Shadow Word: Death: “Shadow really needed Mind Sear's on demand AOE, and really didn't need baseline, an execute that you have to always have in the back of your mind to think about, as far as baseline spec complexity goes” I believe that having both Mind Sear and Death as baseline buttons would not dramatically increase the baseline complexity of the spec for these reasons: It has a visual cue when it’s usable. I think saying that the spell always needs to be in the back of your mind is overstating the mental gymnastics needed to remember the spell exists. Even if you do forget the spell, it will light up on your bars to let you know it is castable. If the indicator wasn’t there, I would agree more with this argument. It was baseline in Legion. The amount of time the devs put into developing classes for Legion was huge. Each spec was looked at and played so many times to the point where they felt that each spec’s kit was complete. I feel that if a spell was not removed or put into a talent during 7.0, it should remain baseline as long as the original vision for the spec is there. The theme of death itself was emphasized with the shadow changes in Legion, with priests killing themselves for the greater good. It feels like a core part of the fantasy now. Mind Sear does not require much thought to use. I see a lot of mobs, I hit Mind Sear. That’s what goes through my head. It is probably one of the simplest AoE spells as you don’t even need to target enemies to use it. In some situations, you could describe the spell as “set it and forget it”. Of course adding more interaction between the spell and our kit would make it more interesting, but if it’s the choice between that and SW:D I would rather prefer having Death. I’ll end this by saying I’m the type of player that loves having as many buttons to hit as possible to get really engaging gameplay, but I realize that a lot of players don’t enjoy that. If you feel that having both Mind Sear and Death baseline is too much for you, I’d love to hear your thoughts.Kalaratic50 54m
1h Mass grip needs to be given to dps dks Once again in Legion, there is a boss, in Aggramar, where you need multiple mass grips to do the fight. I don’t see how it’s good design at all that many, many, guilds bring a 3rd Blood dk tank to not tank but just go around mass gripping things. And I don’t know why it was removed from dps DKs but it really needs to be returned to them. It makes Blood DKs far too valuable and necessary to have. Which is unfun if you want to play any of the other tank classes.Ninqjinq0 1h
1h Feral - Savage Roar FinalbossTV did a review of Feral in current state on Alpha. A point was made about Savage Roar being a dead talent. I personally agree with this. Savage Roar is flat out unfun. There is nothing about it that is engaging other than me having to make sure it's active. It is simply a flat power increase. I've seen blizzard say these types of talents and abilities are not desireable, and I'm not even sure if a Savage roar equivalent is present on any other spec. A good alternative would be to remove Savage roar (tune appropriately), and add Ashamane Frenzy (our artificat ability). It's just one option, and I'm sure others have good ideas too. But anything is more engaging then Savage roar. I know there is more to address with feral, but if partaking in this thread please focus on Savage roar.Plainshoof5 1h
2h What is Depth? "Depth" is one of these key words I see thrown around a lot, but I think people misinterpret what creates it from a gameplay perspective. Depth is caused/created when there are multiple correct solutions to a problem/encounter. In Cataclysm Heroics, the depth of the encounters game from a variety of different ways to defeat the enemy. CC a mob and pull his friends, get a priest to Mind Control and wreck face with the powerful mob, pop all your cooldowns and hope for the best, etc. Let's look at Depth's relation to Pruning. It's a common misconception that pruning just eliminated all depth from the game -and yes it did contribute- but the real problem was there was no need for a secondary solution. The solution 99% of the time is to just hit it until it dies, and most classes/specs have the tools to do that well, and the ones that don't are generally frustrating to play as a result. Occasionally in a High M+ Key, a minor utility was called for like an AoE stun, but it's so rare that it's borderline unimpactful. How do you add Depth to the game? You need to introduce more complex encounters to allow utilities to shine in their given situation, and ensure that Classes have multiple angles of attack. I'll cite the Shadow Priest as a contender for a current Legion class that has depth. Its versatility in its ability to deal single target damage and mow down multiple targets in burst and its sustain damage makes it very interesting. It doesn't have many buttons, but it has choices to make on a case-by-case basis, and finds that it always has an option to tackle a problem from a new angle. It does however fall into the category of frustrating, because it doesn't always have the ability to simply hit it until it dies as well as other classes. The main takeaway from this is that button clutter does not inherently make for an interesting game, only muscle memory. Decision making is where the Depth and Fun comes from. More buttons does not inherently create more decisions to be made, it only slows down the gameplay.Relisa15 2h
2h BFA Fury Warrior Feedback As Bfa alpha/ beta continues on its run I can't help but get a little scared that there is little changes going on with fury warrior. Being the warrior i am I been constantly searching for any indication of change and so far the greatest discussion of Bfa changes has been finalbosstv 1st Alpha pass. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8k3HARsIP4&t=754s ) The big changes that were discussed are - Enrage changed to 6 seconds buff (up from 4 seconds) - Raging blow is used for Aoe Cleave (Meat Cleaver ) - Furious slash buffs BT crit by 20% (up from 10%) - Battle shout has been reintroduced - Rage generation is lower with the removal of Artifact Weapon - The rest are just buffs/nerfs and name changes My biggest issue with fury is talents and an area where I was hoping the biggest amount of change would occur. I will be highlighting what I refer to as dead talents (LvL15) Fresh Meat - Only seems usuable in PVP.. why not replace this with Blood Rage? Cost 10% health gives 20 rage and replaces berserker rage. Does all the other berserker rage stuff. (LvL45) Outburst - keeping up enrage seems very easy at this point making Outburst lose any real requirement. Maybe replace this with Odin’s fury? (LvL60) Warpaint - Cant compete with Movement or a big heal... maybe a buff to enraged Regen. Enrage reduces the CD of enraged regen by 6 seconds. (LvL 90) Bloodbath - Fury has evolved away from CS windows and just doesn't feel like its warranted. Frenzy and Inner Rage are better talents that does add button bloat (LvL 100) Dragon Roar - Same arguement as Bloodbath. (LvL 100) Bladestorm - Can this please just be odins fury and changed places with Outburst? It makes more sense thematically Thats my 5 centsRyuku28 2h
2h Stop insulting our intelligence Even the most casual of players can handle a bit of problem solving. We're not all going to unsubscribe, scratching our heads because our specs made us think a little. Enough with the shallow justifications. If you were able to find the time prune away several pages worth of abilities and then re-balance classes around said pruning, it would not have been untenable to move forward into future expansions by adding slight tuning and flavor tweaks to, what were, perfectly functional classes at the time. Moving SW:D to the talent tree because having it baseline forced players to use their brains while they play... It's incredibly insulting to the playerbase.Grizzlpaw3 2h
2h Headhunter/Axe Thrower Class Fantasy I'll try to keep this short. Not sure if others would like this but I sure would. 1.) Not a new class! (Although I wouldn't be opposed to a pure throwing ranged class) 2.) I like the idea of emulating WC RTS units in WoW. 3.) I love troll axe throwers and headhunters from the RTS games and would like to play a class like that. 4.) Zul'jin in HotS is badass. Options to slot them into existing classes. 1.) Talent for fury warriors Makes heroic throw a rotational ability or makes raging blow become raging throw. Works the same way as raging blow but ranged now. You get so mad that you can't even wait to get into melee range to slaughter your foe. 2.) Glyph or alteration to BfA aspect of the eagle for survival hunters. Aspect of the eagle already makes raptor strike ranged but I'd like a glyph that lets you hurl axes or spears instead of...eagles... I get that they have the throwing axes talent and the glyph of the headhunter but I'd like something more a part of the rotation and neither look very good. Hitting aspect of the eagle and then going ham with each raptor strike button press hurling an axe would be so satisfying. Can be a headhunter and an axe thrower combined! With the recent race flavor additions with Zandalari druid forms and the like (and hopefully getting the Cuban accented forest trolls as an allied race someday) this would be amazing! Please Blizzard, make a lifelong fan's dream come true!Ellyan5 2h
3h Please separate flight form from travel form i know this has been brought up before, but i thought for my own piece of mind i would bring it up again. It would be wonderful, if the land travel form could be separate from flight. When flying becomes available tot hose who have rep-grinded our butts off in Legion, we lose the ability to take on our land travel form and get placed automatically into flight form for travel. Of course, this is an issue in all areas where flight is an option, not just Legion. Land travel has its uses in both role-play, and practicality. When questing with someone else, they have the ability to jump on our backs and take a ride. Yes, i know these people can get on their own mount, but that's not my point here. It would just be very nice to have the option. Additionally, it would enable druids to choose a different 'non glyph' thing to change our appearances for each one - where now Travel form changes are thrown altogether (flight, land travel, swimming) which i find frustrating. It would be nice to be able to choose an alternate appearance for each, if one wanted to.Shariadune20 3h
3h Survey: When was your class the most fun to play? Here is a short survey I made covering each class over the expansions of WoW. VOTE for when you think your class was at its best (design, enjoyment, etc) https://surveyhero.com/c/b01b70ad Results as of April 18th 2018: DK: TBC 0, WotLK 60, MoP 35, Cata 18, WoD 7, Legion 2, BfA 1 DH: TBC 1, WotLK 0, MoP 3, Cata 0, WoD 0, Legion 47, BfA 4 Druid: TBC 10, WotLK 21, MoP 51, Cata 20, WoD 11, Legion 12, BfA 1 Hunter: TBC 12, WotLK 24, MoP 52, Cata 27, WoD 19, Legion 6, BfA 2 Mage: TBC 9, WotLK 25, MoP 47, Cata 19, WoD 9, Legion 14, BfA 2 Monk: TBC 0, WotLK 0, MoP 66, Cata 2, WoD 17, Legion 18, BfA 3 Paladin: TBC 7, WotLK 42, MoP 41, Cata 16, WoD 19, Legion 5, BfA 2 Priest: TBC 10, WotLK 23, MoP 46, Cata 22, WoD 21, Legion 13, BfA 1 Rogue: TBC 14, WotLK 31, MoP 38, Cata 29, WoD 14, Legion 11, BfA 2 Shaman: TBC 9, WotLK 20, MoP 47, Cata 17, WoD 7, Legion 16, BfA 1 Warlock: TBC 15, WotLK 28, MoP 60, Cata 14, WoD 6, Legion 6, BfA 3 Warrior: TBC 12, WotLK 37, MoP 47, Cata 20, WoD 6, Legion 7, BfA 1 UPDATE April 18th 2018 (189 total responses so far; limited to one survey per IP address) https://i.imgur.com/TnEretj.jpg Majority of classes show the strongest preference towards WotLK or MoP class design (with greatest decreases occurring at Cata or WoD, and continuing to decrease through Legion). This is strongly correlated with PRUNING and marginalization of character and class identity, flavor and depth. I will continue to implore class development teams to look at restoring classes to WotLK or MoP design and implementation. Again, new content is possibly the best ever, but without classes/specs that we enjoy playing, the new content is wasted, as our characters are the vehicle by which we explore the world of warcraft. UPDATE Check out this proposed solution to help BfA class design... "Using your artifact to vanquish great evil has rubbed some of its power off on your very soul" ba-da-bing-ba-da-boom, Bob's your uncle, you don't have to discard a whole 2 years worth of game balance and dev cycles every expansion. Artifact and other abilities (e.g. honor talents) become part of your core talent tree options. https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/8a4fud/battle_for_azeroth_class_design_suffers_from/?st=jfxqi85z&sh=583cc0ab and with examples: https://imgur.com/a/ECS9T The above is a very creative solution to bring into play artifact abilities (including gold traits) as well as "honor talents", while providing gains during leveling process. This brings many pivotal, spec-specific or spec-defining abilities back into the fold... and just in time for wPVP to be reborn!! Check out the reddit link, very interesting read and ideas presented.Bishopx49 3h
3h Warlocks Spell Updates Are Missing! I don't feel the warlock class has complete update to it's spell visuals. It's very inconsistent with half of the spells updated while the other half are still using old animations. These are the following spells that should be looked at for a visual update: Shadow Bolt - We've been stuck with the same animation for years. It needs to be updated with the new animation tech. I really want a new Shadow Bolt animation! Unstable Affliction - It needs more flare when it's casted like shadow priests and vampiric touch. The cast uses the shadow bolt aura around your hands. It should be using the casting aura from Seed of Corruption and health funnel. Corruption - Same as unstable affliction. Like you guys did with Shadow Word: Pain. Maybe a flash of shadow energy on the target. Agony - The demon skull that appears when cast is straight from vanilla. It doesn't fit with the other updated spell effects. Hand of Guldan- I don't think this spell has ever been visually updated since it was introduced. Health Funnel - Same as Hand of Guldan. The red beam is too low rez compared to every other channel in the game. The explosion looks terrible in comparison to seed of corruptions explosion. Hopefully with these 6 spells, the warlock can start to feel like a modern class like priests and mages. If I missed anything, let me know!Nightstitch9 3h
3h Return of Hunter Dual Wield Hunters have been able to dual wield since Vanilla WoW. When Survival was turned into a melee spec, I was surprised their artifact was a polearm when dual wielding was such an iconic thing for hunters/rangers. Now that we're done with artifacts and can choose weapons we like, I was disappointed to see Raptor Strike still requires a two-handed melee weapon. Bliz went through the trouble to change abilities to do damage based on attack power rather than weapon damage, so there's no real reason to have this restriction anymore. Why force every Survival hunter to use two-handers when we've had the ability to dual wield forever? Overall I really enjoy playing Survival in BFA. It's the first time I'm considering maining any spec other than Beast Mastery because it feels so fun to play while still being able to have a furry friend but being forced into two-handers for another expansion kind of kills it for me.Mylura4 3h
3h Death Knights and allied races Blizzard it really sucks for death knights that we can't be any of the allied races. I know you want the class choices to fit with the lore, but DK's really feel like they are missing out. During the DK campaign, death knights raise people to become death knights right? Couldn't that be worked into the lore for new allied races?Usutu41 3h
3h BFA Alpha Warlock 1st Pass Mythic + Breakdown Before I start I wanted to just introduce myself to give a basis of where and how I'm drawing conclusions. I'm Nightfall. I have been playing warlock for approximately 13 years. I held rank 1 in Mythic+ for either warlock or all players for 7.2, 7.2.5, and most of 7.3. I am also the author of the official Wowhead guide for warlocks in Mythic+ for Legion. I have since stopped pushing high keystones for Legion in 2018 for personal/health reasons. A few people might recognize me from twitch if they were to watch Zqs(Jasonxdrofl), Maset(Zatcharygaming), Shakib(Shakibdh), or AutomaticJack, among others. In this breakdown I am not going to involve actual damage numbers as those will absolutely be changing, in some cases drastically, before or shortly after the release of Battle for Azeroth, so balancing based on numbers is as of yet, not known. I will only touch on percentage values in regards to percentages that fall wildly outside of where they should be, not in nitpicky things that involve 1 or 2 percent changes. The majority of this will be focused on the effects and functionality of warlocks specs in regards to Mythic+ dungeons for Battle for Azeroth, things such as talents or base abilties, timers, mobility, etc.Níghtfall10 3h
4h (8.0) Feral Druid Feedback MegaThread Please post all your feedback here.Ancihcaor27 4h
4h Prophets Versus Designers I make the following prophecy: The game designers choice to dumb down base game play to be as simple as possible will eventually hurt blizzard's profitability, and cause a weak showing in bfa, followed by a possible drop in stock price. -Why- When I start playing a game, I make the choice of whether I want to play it or not in around the first 5-10 hours of gameplay. When I leave a game, specifically an MMO, I make that choice during end game content. Here is the problem. Blizzard has been making wow easier and easier and easier. Pruning abilities left and right. However, the class design team by design has no effect over new player subscription. They do however have an effect on old player retention. That player retention is based mostly on how much a player enjoys playing their class. Most players I talk to hate what blizzard has done with abilities. They pruned the abilities to nothing. Why is blizzard doing this? Specifically, why is Ion doing this? Well, I suspect that Ion is under the gun from corporate. He has deadlines to meet, and probably feedback from shareholders. They are treating him like they would treat an engineer, rather than an artist. They are asking him for a plan to increase sales, and forcing him to justify stuff. That is probably his mindset. Instead of sitting down, playing the game, daydreaming, tinkering with different designs, and iterating on the thousands of hours of work gone into creating the baseline classes, they are saying- "look we have a formula, and these special parts of the formula are not allowed to be changed. We want you to push bfa by such and such a date. We want this, we want that. blah. blah. blah" Well guess what corporate blizzard? There are several fundamental parts of the formula that do need to be fixed. First, the Design/destroy/design cycle of designing between expansions is unnecessary, and is cause for great concern. Second, the lack of new abilities or the redesign of existing abilities mid expansion is cause for concern. Third, the extreme raid centric approach to abilities, with very few purely utility moves like the warlocks fel gateway is disturbing. And lastly, the inattention to detail of the fel gateways are disturbing. The damn things don't line up, take far too much time to cast, far too much time spent on cooldown after use, and move the player too short of a distance. I prophecy all around doom and gloom for blizzard investors!Malsiferus1 4h
5h Blizzards internal playtesters Do we have any idea who these people are? Or their credentials? Cause there's no way these people said, "these classes in alpha feel great!", unless its for that $$$.Namjoo21 5h
5h Tanks are a bit OP right now on alpha Been running dungeons and it seems that tanks can pull anything and everything and barely tank any damage. It seems the main offender to this are guardian druids. I'm all for easy dungeons but it seems it's a been ridiculous. I ran whole dungeon (Tol Dagor) without a healer (left after first pull). No one healed the tank because he never once needed a heal. We ran freehold and pull every single pack as many as possible all at once with a bear/resto druid combo and no one drops at all.Dumat17 5h
5h Hunter: Survival, suggestions for BfA remake I would remake survival to include the following, and make these instant cast: 1) Serpent Sting (causes Nature damage over 15 sec.) 2) Explosive Shot (You fire an explosive charge into the enemy target, dealing Fire damage initially and every second for 2 sec and applying the Hunter's Mark effect.) 3) Lock and Load (You have a 100% chance when you trap a target with Freezing Trap or Ice Trap, and a 20% chance when your Black Arrow deals damage to cause your next two Explosive Shots to cost no Focus and trigger no cooldown. Effect lasts for 12 sec and cannot occur more often than once every 10 sec.) 4) Kill Shot (You attempt to finish the wounded target off, firing a long range attack dealing 420% weapon damage. Kill Shot can only be used on enemies that have 20% or less health. If Kill Shot fails to kill the target, the cooldown is instantly reset, but cannot be reset more often than once every 6 sec.) 5) Black Arrow (Deals damage over 20 sec.) Next I would make Survival Spec for hunters into a ranged class again, one that is able to have high mobility, with stun and snare evasion, and does primary damage as poisons, magic and bleeds (DoTs). I got the ideas from MoP hunter, back when survival was actually fun and worth playing... :) TL;DR Please bring back KITING for hunters... this was the single most enjoyable part of playing a hunter!!! I don't need big numbers, I want to kite an elite or pvp player into the ground the old fashioned way, with patience and trickery!!!!Bishopx39 5h
6h Stop. Removing. Abilities. Moving a previously baseline ability to a talent slot is effectively removing 2 things at once. Expansions should ADD new stuff, not take away. This has happened to SW:Death and a LOT of artifact abilities (wake of ashes, stormkeeper, void torrent, ebonbolt, etc) and it's honestly sickening.Luxumbral142 6h
6h Arcane mages done? Getting a little concerned that we haven’t seen anything new on arcane mages even though most who’ve tested it in alpha and beta are saying it’s not playable in its current form. Is that it? Are we done? Is it RIP in BfA for arcane?Aedrid3 6h
6h BFA Elemental - Spec needs serious work I've started testing Elemental on the BFA Alpha, and the very first think I noticed in combat was how weak I feel now. When I say that, I do not mean based on numbers (though that is an issue). Specifically, I mean the kit of tools I have. Here's my feedback on Elemental so far: Earth Shock - On live, Earth shock hits around 8 million damage for me. That's 4 to 8 Lava burst hits, and is a significant chunk of damage. On BFA Alpha, Earth shock takes more effort to get, and hits for around 2000, or about 1.8 Lava Burst hits. I'm able to use this ability less often, and it hits significantly weaker. This feels incredibly unsatisfying currently. Flame Shock - On live, flame shock has no cooldown, and lasts 15 seconds, increasing to 30 seconds with maelstrom use. On BFA, Flame shock lasts 18 seconds, with no maelstrom component to increase it, and has a 6 second cooldown. This makes switching targets much slower, prevents ramp up, requires more management, and all in all feels like a terrible change. I frequently find myself trying to use flame shock, with nothing happening, and it feels incredibly wrong. Maelstrom - Maelstrom seems to generate much slower in BFA. This may be due to the reduced stats of the alpha characters, but it takes a long time to build maelstrom, and nothing I use it on feels impactful. Maelstrom either needs to build many times faster, of the abilities I spend it on need to have significantly more impact. Stormkeeper - this felt like a core part of the spec for AoE. Now it's been moved to a talent, competing with Ascendance. Seeing as I love Ascendance, it's been effectively completely removed, or I'm forced to choose between my favorite cooldown and a seemingly vital part of my toolkit. Earth Shield - This talent feels completely useless so far, and It's still the best option on the row. That's...not a good feeling. Gust of Wind - Why was this removed? I find myself having to stop moving because I keep almost running off cliffs. I'm going to have quite a few deaths to not having this, and I feel significantly less mobile in combat. Lightning Bolt - Lightning Bolt feels weak. I get that it's supposed to be the "main builder", but it's not powerful. I get it had to be a soft hitter in MoP - we could move while casting it then. That's no longer the case, so why am I trying to tazer people with wet pool noodles? Artifact Weapon - With the loss of the Fist of Ra-Den, we've also lost the passive buffs that came with it - and you can very easily tell that. Pretty well every ability feels less impactful than it really should. Where's my gouts of fire? Oh, right, that's gone. Cool lightning elemental shooting chain lightning? Gone. Excessive number of overload procs? Gone. 125 maelstrom cap? gone. Instant heal when dropping below 35% health? Gone. Earthquake shooting lightning? Gone. We've had these as part of the class for nearly two years, and losing all that power is immediately noticeable and feels crippling. Capacitor totem - Did this really need a longer cooldown? I find myself looking for it and finding I haven't waited long enough each time I'm getting pummeled by 5+ dudes. Elemental shamans need some serious changes before BFA goes live. As is, I get better class fantasy by buying putting on a shock collar IRL and walking outside the boundry area, as the damage is better and the effect is more interesting.Sarcastryx76 6h
6h Shadow Priests and Alpha: In the hopes of drumming up awareness on the state of Shadow Priests, mine of which I really do not want to bench for BFA; I'm going to make a list of changes that I feel would improve the Class significantly based on my experiences in BFA's Alpha. Currently on the Alpha there's a lot of mechanical issues relating to Shadow Priest. I'm hoping they will be addressed before BFA launches, but that would require Blizzard to admit that in their current state they are flawed and be serious about repairing them in a way that is enjoyable. I've played Shadow Priest since the close of Wrath so I've seen a lot of ups and downs for the class. Legion was probably my least favorite rendition on the class, though the fantasy is a solid one. Voidform / Shadowform: This is the first and biggest issue I've seen. I was looking at tooltips tonight on the Alpha and it appears both Shadowform and Voidform give the same amount of spell damage regardless. That being a flat 10% increase. Sure there is the increase to damage every second your in VF, but most cap out at 30 and even then that translates at best to 4-6 DoT Ticks. Maybe. Now if this is accurate and not a bug then that means means .5% Haste per second and a reduction on Mind Blast and access to Void Bolt is basically all we're getting for popping Voidform and our attempts to maintain it longer are basically meaningless. If it's meaningless beyond a certain threshold, it feels like it's better served to be a straight damage CD rather than the confusing frantic button mash that was introduced in Legion, and which is badly affected by the GCD experiment. I'll be honest. I don't quite care about Voidform. I preferred Shadow Orbs / Devouring Plague honestly. Regardless, it has potential, though it needs help. Why not make Voidform a CD we pop that is functioned akin to say the Paladin Talent inquisition or the Shadow Priest's old Dark Archangel ability? Mind Blast: I'd set Mind Blast at 9 Seconds for it's cooldown, with a talent that allows it to have 2 charges. I would also set Void Bolt as a baseline ability with a 6 second CD. In this scenario both would generate Insanity as they do now, with Mind Flay remaining our core filler. Uses for Insanity: It would be a big QoL improvement if there were other meaningful abilities that cost Insanity since Voidform would no longer be a "drain" but rather a CD under the above ideas. Ultimately, I feel like more creative uses of Insanity as a Resource would resolve the issues with Shadow better and also help with Shadow Priest ramp-up. For example, the Void Torrent talent could ably serve as a on demand resource builder or as a "Super Mind Flay" which fills our Insanity bar. It has a 45 Second CD so that couldn't be too earth shattering, right? The question really becomes what would we spend our Insanity on? Personally, I'd love to see a series of alternating abilities that if used could improve or spice up the rotation. Perhaps a spell that summons a Dark Tendril for X Seconds, and another that is a powerful DoT for single target? This would make it so that the Priest is constantly expending the insanity that they generate, and trying to maximize the number of Dark Tendrils up, while performing their rotations. If tuned right this could be a fun game-style. Especially if uptime on Voidform played into the damage said Tendrils did. Thoughts? Regarding the often cited flaw of Shadow Priests, namely our AoE, I think Void Eruption would play better if it were tied into the Dark Void Talent as a AoE nuke which when coupled with Mind Sear gave Priests the on-demand AoE they need. Shadow Crash is cool, but it's more suited to being a NPC ability. No sane player will stand around for that to hit them. As for single target, one of the biggest things I'd also love to see would be a return of Devouring Plague or Void Entropy. A super DoT we could cast that cost 50+ Insanity would fill a strong single target niche. There's other ideas I could explore such as Void Bolt becoming baseline and increasing the speed of Mind Flay Channels, but the bigger concerns are addressing Voidform and our currently very lackluster rotation. I hope Blizzard pays this thread more attention. Annesh made an amazing thread on our concerns last Alpha and it was for the most part ignored. Finally, and speaking from strictly a cosmetic standpoint, can we have Mind Sear's spell graphic updated? It's been using the same effect since BC guys. Also Power Word: Shield direly needs a upgrade. It's been using the same animation since Vanilla. Last but not least, another QoL improvement would be three Cosmetic Glyphs. One that shuts off the Tentacle Growth in Voidform, A second that gives players Dark Naaru wings (ala Dark Archangel's theme), and a third that subs the Tentacles out for Shadow Orbs. Thanks for reading.Vandor23 6h
7h 8.0 Beastmaster Hunter Feedback Greetings fellow Beast Master Hunters this thread is a compilation of all alpha changes for the spec as of Alpha Build 26287 For other specs refer to https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20760917770 (Marksman) https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20762266167 (Survival) The purpose of this thread is to list the changes and discuss and offer any criticisms or feedback or suggestions Pets: Note pets have received an overhaul with Battle for Azeroth. come 8.0 and beyond BM will no longer be able to switch specializations on their pet instead pets will be preassigned specializations and each specialization will have certain abilities I.E Bloodlust to Ferocity, Masters Call to Cunning, and Survival of the Fittest to Tenacity For more information please see https://i.imgur.com/pe533Gn.png or reference http://www.wowhead.com/news=281769/battle-for-azeroth-hunter-pet-revamp for more detailed information. See https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761078085 for a great write up about the pet changes and spec locking debate (thank you Glenfeddich for the write up) Core Abilities: Aspect of the Wild Grants you and your pet 5 Focus per sec and 10% increased critical strike chance on all attacks for 10 sec.for 20 sec.(Nerfed) Beast Cleave After you Multi-Shot, your pet's melee attacks also strike all other nearby enemy targets for 75% as much for the next 4 sec.(Nerfed) Cobra Shot 27.5808% of Attack power * ((min(Level - 1, 19) * 12 + 112) / 340)] Physical damage. Reduces the cooldown of Kill Command by 1 sec. Kill Command Give the command to kill, causing your pet to savagely deal [1.5 * (00 + (Ranged attack power * 3.63 / 4)) * 1 * (0.5 + min(Level, 20) * 0.025) * (1 + Versatility)] Physical damage to its target. Range changed from 100 yd range to 50 yd range Multi-Shot Fires several missiles, hitting your current target and all enemies within 8 yards for (10.9512% of Attack power) Physical damage Tar Trap Hurls a tar trap to the target location that creates a 8 yd radius pool of tar around itself for 30 sec when the first enemy approaches. All enemies have 80% reduced movement speed while in the area of effect. Trap will exist for 1 min. Wild Call Your auto shot critical strikes have a 20% chance to reset the cooldown of Dire BeastDire Frenzy.(Remains Unchanged) Passives: Mastery Mastery of the Beasts ( Unchanged ) Bestial Fury (REMOVED) Blink Strikes (REMOVED) Natural Mending very 30 Focus you spend reduces the remaining cooldown on Exhilaration by 1 sec. (NEW talent) Thrill of the Hunt Dire Frenzy increases your critical strike chance by 3% for 8 sec, stacking up to 3 times. (NEW talent) Animal Companion Your Call Pet additionally summons the first pet from your stable. This pet will obey your Kill Command, but cannot use pet family abilities.(NEW [NYI]) Venomous Bite Cobra Shot reduces the cooldown Bestial Wrath by 1 sec. (NEW talent) Aspect of the Beast The target also bleeds for (44.226% of Attack power) Physical damage over 6 sec Utility: Concussive Shot Dazes the target, slowing movement speed by 50% for 6 sec. Cooldown changed from 5 sec cooldown to 8 sec cooldown Intimidation (NO LONGER TALENT) now baseline Wyvern Sting (REMOVED) Binding Shot (NERFED) Fires a magical projectile, tethering the enemy and any other enemies within 5 yards for 10 sec, rooting them in place for 5 sec if they move more than 5 yards from the arrow Counter Shot (NO NEW CHANGE) Disengage (NO NEW CHANGE) Exhilaration (NO NEW CHANGE) Freezing Trap (NO NEW CHANGE) Misdirection (NO NEW CHANGE) Tranquilizing Shot (NEW) 10 sec cooldown Removes 1 Enrage and 1 Magic effect from an enemy target. Azerite Traits Refer to https://i.imgur.com/hJw5wLn.png for the following list of traits All Specializations Aspect of the Cheetah - adds an additional 77% speed to the initial 3 seconds of Aspect of the Cheetah Beast Mastery Traits Flashing Fangs - Kill Command increases the damage of your next Cobra Shot by 326 Ride the Lightning - Increases the critical strike chance of Aspect of the Wild by an additional 5% and causes your attacks to deal 77 additional Nature damage, chaining to up to 2 targets Rotting Jaws - Kill Command has a chance to deal 77 to 385 additional damage and grants you 6 focus over 3 secsManales95 7h
8h Enhancement T45 talents Spirit Wolf talent is very lack luster, The movement speed feels like a much slower ramping version of just having rehgar as a combat follower in legion, going from 100% instant to a 50% over 4sec doesn't make it to appealing, even for leveling. The damage reduction aspect is even more niche, the only scenario's that come to mind to gain any value out of it is getting kited in pvp, or some downtime in a raid with damage going out, if that were the case you could just be casting healing surges. Earth Shields healing feels fairly weak to be a talent. I would rather have earth shield turned into a flat 10-20% damage reduction with a 1hr duration. Replace Spirit Wolf with a talent that increased Ghost Wolf to 100% outdoor and 50% indoor speed, will also remove the mana cost on healing surge when maelstrom is being used.(Probably need an increase in cost to 25-30 maelstrom) This would make a nice world/solo, pvp perhaps talent, it would free up mana for utility like purge while still costing you your damage for survivability which is a fair trade off.Rßk0 8h
11h BFA Class design, ability pruning & PvP Class fantasy (that turned out to be "spec fantasy"), resulted in every spec feeling like their own micro-classes. The class kit that is supposed to classify you as said class is too small, and nothing feels whole or complete as a result. Some specs have 1.5 pages of abilities/passives at max lvl, that is an insultingly low amount when there used to be 4-5 pages for every class/spec. I tried every class, but there is nothing enjoyable to me in Legion at all. There's no complexity like the previous expansions had, the gap between a bad player and an amazing player is too small, players of all calibers can't be differentiated from one another like in the past as the options you have before you are too cut and dry. It gets boring SO QUICK. Subtlety & Outlaw Rogues lost poisons, CC was split up by spec, and Preparation was removed entirely, effectively cutting Rogues defensives in half. This crushed their identity, specs were already different before Legion, having specs share nothing but stealth was clearly prioritizing spec fantasy over class fantasy, and that need to be rectified. You take away something as core as poisons and gouge and the traditional Rogue class ceases to exist. It would be like removing traps from Hunters (whoops, they did that but thankfully brought them back), or like removing Charge from Warriors, or Blink from Mages. Casters have become too one-dimensional by being restricted to one school of magic, this makes the interrupt meta one-dimensional and boring for both the interrupter and the caster. The answer is NOT to prune CC, or nerfing interrupts, or giving locks/shams/sp interrupt reductions. What casters need are more off-spec/multischool abilities again, having something to cast when interrupted on your main school or to bait interrupts on another school adds layers upon layers of counterplay, thats what PvP needs to be enjoyable to play. Why can't I cast Blizzard, or Ice Lance, or Fire Blast, or Arcane Explosion regardless of spec? Why can't Affliction Warlocks cast Immolate or Searing Pain, why can't Destruction Warlocks cast corruption? etcetc. When I look at e.g Holy Priests, they've lost their iconic Priest spells like Psychic Scream, Shadow Word: Pain, Power Word: Shield, Power Word: Fortitude (all of these scream Priest to me), Holy looks like a completely different class after that. Every Priest should have Shadow/Power word spells, Renew, Flash Heal, and so on. Shadow Word: Death is shadow only (has been for some time), and supposedly now turning into a talent in BfA, this is a massive mistake, so is keeping it restricted to Shadow only. This ability used to be one of, if not, the most skillful ability in the entire game due its backsplash damage, you could break yourself out of any CC that breaks on damage by deathing just before you got e.g blinded/polymorphed, the delayed backsplash damage would then break you out of it. This is the type of mechanics PvP is DYING to have again. Discipline priests have this type of gameplay with Premonition, but why limit it to just Discipline, and while in PvP combat only? Its time to bring back this skillful mechanic to every Priest spec. Druids. Whats the point of having shapeshifting forms, if you have next to no abilities to use within them? It makes no sense, every druid is a shapeshifter and should have a complete kit in bearform and catform. Why do Warriors root you like a Mage/Druid when they charge, what happened to charge stun? The outplay potential with Charge stun is direly needed, the root is meaningless. Why don't Warriors have stances or shields to play offensively/defensively with anymore? I could go on and on, every class is having a class identity crisis. Hunters were handled poorly. Their core identity has always been: a ranged dps, with a pet, and traps. You split that up for no good reason and now you have 3 boring specs that are either: A madman "sniper" who wildly AoE's everything in sight, A zookeeper who sends disposable pets at you and uses his gun for one single attack, or A melee spec noone signed up for when they picked a Hunter to begin with. I thought bringing back the old melee abilities for Survival was cool, but to have them lose the bow and go 100% melee? That was a ridiculous decision, but BfA SV is looking much better, I can only hope the playstyle gets any closer to this beautiful gameplay from Danaik 3 triple D: http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=122825 Pruning has been happening for a long time, I get that you can't keep literally every single ability added since 2004, but WoD and especially Legion pruning were overkill, in Legion specifically: Too much was outright pruned. Too much was gated behind certain specs. Too much was gated behind talents. Too much was gated behind max level PvP talents. Too much was gated behind max level Artifacts. Too much was gated behind max level legendaries.Chritznl140 11h
11h Just get rid of SR and BT...it's been 3 xpacs It's been 3 expansions of changing and unchanging, removing, adding, etc. for Savage Roar and Blood Talons...could we just be done with it already? They're both not really exciting talents. They make the rotation clunky. General consensus among any of my kitty and ex-kitty friends is that if they weren't in the game Feral Druid would be an infinitely better spec. TLDR: They just don't work and boring, it's time to give up on SR and BTHakar10 11h
12h Can we have a discussion about Fel Barrage? I've avoided using it so far because I was expecting it to get nerfed, or at least for the other two talents on its row to get buffed. I mean, the numbers are just off. And yet... For those who don't know, Havoc Demon Hunters have 3 talents on the third row: Trail of Ruin: Causes Blade Dance (an AoE damage ability) to deal extra chaos damage over time. Fel Mastery: Doubles the damage of Fel Rush. (ability which causes you to dash forward a certain distance, dealing chaos damage to everything in the way) Fel Barrage: Ability on a one minute cooldown, channel for 3 seconds to deal heavy chaos damage to everything in an 8 yards radius. Now, before we compare the damage of each, you need to understand that Fel Rush is only part of your rotation if you spec into momentum, a talent which causes fel rush to give you a 15% damage buff for 6 seconds. So, logically, if you spec into Momentum, you'd want to spec into Fel Mastery so as to buff the ability which is now part of your rotation, right? Now, to understand how much each ability buffs your damage, we need to be relative. So, we'll compare the damage to chaos strike. Trail of Ruin causes your Blade Dance to deal extra chaos damage equal to 0.35 chaos strikes every, say, 7.25 seconds (blade dance's cooldown is reduced by the GCD). So, that's 8.28 times a minute, which equals 2.9 extra chaos strikes worth of damage every minute. Fel Mastery doubles the chaos damage of Fel Rush. Fel rush does 0.24 chaos strikes worth of damage, and has a 10 seconds cooldown (though it has 2 charges). Let's say 6.5 Fel Rushes a minute for the sake of "fairness", which boils down to 1.56 chaos strikes a minute. Mind you, if you use the momentum build, you don't want to use Blade Dance as part of your single target rotation, so Fel Mastery would still be superior. But then we get to Fel Barrage. Fel Barrage does 7.5 chaos strikes worth of damage every minute. At zero Fury cost. Even though you have to channel it for 3 seconds (2 global cooldowns), let's say you lose 2 chaos strikes you could have used while channeling it (let's not even discuss that those chaos strikes would cost fury), which still brings it down to 5.5 chaos strikes a minute, with the auto-attack damage loss being negligible. Meaning, there is no scenario in which Fel Mastery or Trail of Ruin even come close to competing with Fel Barrage. And all 3 are AoE abilities, meaning you can't even use the "Well, one is for single target only and the other is for AoE" excuse. Fel Barrage is always the right choice, regardless of your build. In fact, it's downright nonsensical: It's obvious you're meant to use Trail of Ruin with First Blood and Fel Mastery with Momentum. Those synergize. But unless something changes, you'd be a fool to pair them together. What I'm saying is that unless Azerite winds up massively changing the relative power of those talents, either Fel Barrage needs a big nerf or the other talents need a big buff. Hell, maybe buff Trail of Ruin but keep Fel Mastery the same while buffing Fel Rush itself. I hope I'm not being presumptuous by bringing this up, but I feel like this state of affairs isn't what the devs intended.Galladen7 12h
13h Respond to your paying costumers Honestly Blizzard, what is wrong with you guys? Why don't you give any feedback on what your doing and leave everyone in the dark? People pay a lot of money for this game and deserve to hear from you guys.Soapypilot6 13h
14h Is there any progress in class design? Over the last few months, since the announcement of BfA i went from: Doubtful, to convinced, to excited, back to doubtful, then shocked and at this point i am simply disappointed. Blizzard is currently streamlining every spec that was problematic in Legion, rather than fixing existing problems in the mechanics of those classes/specs that need improvement. First they pruned in WoD because they said the game was too streamlined and every class had the same abilities. Then they pruned in Legion because they said they had to give the Classes their own Class Fantasy. NOW theyre pruning again and reason by saying they're trying to fix "some of the issues" of Legion, which is apparently the whole spec of certain classes and everything that gave those specs any identity at all. (Take the abominations that SV and Outlaw are right now f.e.) The only things, Blizzard had to do, was rework a few masteries, bake in a few passives as baseline abilities and add some interesting new abilities/talents/perks that would've given the classes more depth with BfA. Instead they strip all the classes to their bones. Take every bit of class fantasy away from those specs whose performance was in question, and make them mere copies of the other specs of that class. And add in a few augmenting passives that have barely any impact on gameplay at all, as a trade off. I fail to see any sort of progression in the class design. Every step they took forward in Legion, they are now making two steps backwards for. There's less than 4 months left, if the game goes live even remotely similar to how it is right now, i fear for the few sub's that WoW has left.Cruzifyd21 14h
14h Sub Rogues and Energy Currently on the alpha, sub energy regen is abysmal. I at first thought that haste would probably be the worst stat again for sub, but once I played it a bit on alpha, my mind on that has changed. Now I believe haste will far and away be the best stat because of how crappy energy regen is for sub. The loss of goremaw's bite and the energetic stabbing trait really kills the flow and playability of sub. Shadow techniques giving energy is made baseline, but honestly that is not enough especially given how inconsistent shadow techniques is. Sub by far has the worst energy regen of the three rogue specs unless if you spec with a very specific setup, which should not have to be done. I know SnD won't return for sub, but i'll throw in another idea. Another finisher wouldn't hurt sub (and it honestly could use another button), and it could help give sub some consistent energy. It will be called "Energetic Recovery." A simple finisher that gives X energy over X seconds. Not very flashy, but it would get the job done. With this, you could probably even remove the energy regen from shadow techniques, cause it's not that good anyway.Varolyn1 14h
15h Guardian Druid threat vs other tanks. Seems this problem still exists while its not a game breaking issue, seems that threat generation vs other tanks is still low. If you consider a situation where you have Bear vs a DK/Pally/DH tanking same mob, the DK/Pally/DH with just a few hits can pull off the Bear easily on the initial few seconds on the mob. While we always have taunt that can be used it feels pretty broken when you are hitting a mob for 2-3 secs and another tank comes in without using a taunt and pulls off you. This could be due to the way they mitigate damage where they are self-healing and doing damage on the mob at the same time, it could also be the burst damage that they can produce, either way its disheartening. (On a fight like Varimathras, it could also be an issue in the first few seconds.) This really needs to be looked at, again its not game-breaking but its one of the only real issues bear tanking has at the moment.Greenstone3 15h
15h Mobility Has any1 noticed how healer mobility is gone but dps mobility has increased? like frost dk for example now have 2 sprints when gust of wind, druid blink, and other stuff for healers is gone. Druids and Shamy are gonna get rekts in pvp by so many classes now.Lagbolts0 15h
16h light based caster dps been wanting this for years - either Paladin or Priest should have a ranged light based dps spec. a cop out way to do it would be to give Disc a talent that basically makes them dps a la glad spec, but I'd much prefer a dedicated spec of it's own. Inquisitor? There are so many dark themed specs, we could use some more light and also another ranged spec.Yalena17 16h
16h Adding GCD to even more things. This game already felt too close to FF14 as far as how freaking slow it is to attack, now the GCD is being added to even more things. This is a terrible, terrible thing, and i feel they aren't really fixing the problem. Give CC the treatment warhammer online did, Stunned? Cant be stunned for another 30 seconds. Knocked back? cant be knocked back for another 30 seconds. Without handing any real nerfs towards the true king of OP, rogues. They can blind you, stun you, vanish, sap, heal for a crazypants amount (tons of self sustain without reducing their damage, thats not balanced design). But lets put your response to those things a rogue can do, on a GCD. (rogues are just one example) This game is going to feel like molasses, and it may be the straw that broke the camels back.Raghnu16 16h
18h Developer team is pulling a Deathwing Just like how Deathwing decimated Azeroth forever changing it, the developers are doing the exact same thing to our beloved specs. Something I wrote in a topic before "What I mean is classes used to have more depth, take my class for example. I used to be a Master of Armed Combat as an Arms Warrior. Now I am the master of a 2hander which wasn't the case in the past, I had a 2 hander plus a Shield and 1 handed Sword. I would swap to my Shield and Sword during times when I needed to be more defensive as well as go into Defensive Stance which is now a talent and go back into Battle when it was safe to do so or Beserker stance which is now gone. Defensive Stance was baseline, they took a baseline ability and made it a talent... I used to Stance Dance because Stances used to mean something, a Stance wasn't just a passive buff. It used to have utility and abilities dedicated to that Stance which isn't the case anymore. I was more engaged with my class due to how the design was in the past, I had to be careful about which stance I was in. I had to predict more and use abilities pre-emptively not to lose dps or get caught in a bad spot like getting stunned in arena being in Beserker Stance which increased the damage you took but also increased your damage output. There was risk/reward type play. Before baseline abilities were stripped and made into a talent or put into another spec like Intervene and Spell Reflect or Disarm I had utility to stand out from the rest. In arena when Spell Reflect was baseline and it might as well be because that's what you take almost all the time because it's such a good ability, you could reflect incoming cc like Polymorph forcing a trinket or they sit it giving you an advantage in arena. In a raid setting you could use Shield Wall to help the tank if they made a mistake for a small period of time before they stripped it from Arms and made it Prot only or if the raid boss was physical damage you would just pop Shield Block which parried attacks which was also stripped from Arms and made Prot only. You could Disarm powerful mobs to help the healers a little bit or in Arena disarm a Rogue using all of his cooldowns. Now you can use Disarm in arena if you talent into it, you can use Spell Reflect if you talent into it etc...point is these were baseline before and instead of innovating something new they take what we already have and bake it into a talent tree which is lazy design in my opinion. My class at this stage of the game feels stale and boring to play in BFA and has been boring for me to play since WoD. It's not the same class anymore which makes me sad because I've played a Warrior for 12 years and gone through the changes but in the past they would add to the class, not take away which they have been doing for awhile now." #StopthePrune #MakeWoWGreatAgain #BringBackBaselineAbilitiesXadie2 18h
18h DKs in BfA fdbk we want our tools back twitter.com tweet these 2 @WatcherDev @WarcraftDevs be sure to bug them about this topic The dev Celestion is no longer in charge of class design so that might be a win for us The way you guys are taking Death Knights is in the wrong direction. It's very scary The Lich King was slow as hell, but he had teleport abilities. When he created us he gave us Unholy Presence for the much needed speed boost Wrath walk is terrible and having to shell out gold on a glyph and have a talent for each spec is sad and insulting. It does not belong in wow. So please bring back Death's Advance. DA worked was free and never got stuck with it ever and the passive was awesome. here is some feedback about Wrath Walk you should read https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20757356210?page=3#post-57 Here is part 2 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20757356210?page=3#post-58 Some QoL stuff that needs fixing in 8.X.X when we ditch our weapons please put back the absorb for AMS you took out for various reasons so it absorbs 75% again. stop taking parts of abilities and making talents out of them because you have no imagination. please dont involve it with the heart so we have to grind to get back the rest of it. Runes recharge individually so when you use 4 they recharge as soon as you use them. Resulting in shorter down times. Death strike for Unholy and Frost shouldn't be the same as Blood's DS please remove the 5 sec part and bring back how it healed in MoP and Early WoD Patch 6.0.2 (2014-10-14): Now causes healing that scales in effectiveness with attack power, instead of based on damage taken in the last 5 seconds. For Frost n Unholy a way to heal ourselfs other than death strike The presences brought back for a speed boost and to get back to the group or get out of the way faster. A sudden need to mini tank when out soloing old content, raiding and got caught in a mechanic you didn't expect. Also being able to not be cc'd as much as well go along way for survivability. GCD lowered to 1 Blood Returning the migration so you took out so healing through it won't be so spiky Frost tying Death strike to IBF for a bigger heal is a wast of a resource Breath be made baseline because it's to good in the talents. anywhere you put it will be the mandatory option or make the talents next to it better. abominations might replaced with hungering cold a area freeze because a rng stun is no fun Make Abominations Might a raid buff again obliteration needs to change to stacks of Km of 10 or more so if you get CC'd the stacks are less likely to fall off. Oblit scales off mastery or does frost damage and totally benefits from mastery In addition to runes recharging individually as soon as you use them I thought of this change Runic Empowerment You have 1.899 per rp spent to recharge a rune. You have 30-35% chance each time RE triggers to recharge all your runes when 4 or more are on cooldown. Death Grip Either have its cooldown lowered further reduced by haste or give it charges of 3 Also usable on allies but it pull you to them without triggering the cooldown or 1 sec cooldown Unholy the Wounds system needs to go back to rogues where it beings or be made a talent Festering strike costing 2 runes and does 3 wounds would help with openers. A way to heal and sacrifice your pet bring back Unholy blight Anyone else agree with thisKrissignacia335 18h
18h Demonology: What Legion did Right Legion's Demonology was quite the "Experience", being a contender as one of the most poorly implemented specializations for Warlocks, or even across all Classes. From its controversial changes to remove Demonic Fury and Metamorphosis, to fantasies of horde summoning, Legion really changed up the spec. But for all the things that players didn't like, let's look at things that the Expansion got right with this spec. Different from other specs Demonology is very different from Affliction and Demonology. It's something that can be forgotten easily as a Warlock player, but many other classes specs' feel as though they're identical, but they took different electives in senior year. Unique among classes You'd be hard pressed to find another class that utilizes the Zoo quite as much as a Demo Lock. They're easily identifiable by their artifact weapon which floats around them as opposed to being perpetually glued to their person, as well as their signature pet. It's also easily identifiable in combat due to the visuals of its pet summons, giving them a solid identity in the battlefield. Playstyle Customization Many Warlock Players don't realize it, but there are three main ways you can build a Demo Lock on the live servers. They range in viability, but the rotation for each build is very different. They range as a Demonic Empower heavy rotation, a Doom/AoE heavy rotation, and finally the 'Zoo Spec'. Like them or not, they are incredibly different playstyles, focusing much more on one specific spell to tune gameplay, while still including its other spells. Raw Potential Demonology's Rotation is very straightforward; very few curveballs are added to the spec before talents, making it very predictable and stable. As a result, you're far less likely to suffer damage loss from an RNG flood or drought, leaving your own ability as the biggest limiting factor for performance with the spec. Beauty in the Clunk Demonology's imperfectness with its mechanics made it incredibly fun to explore. Doom, for example, is incredibly strong in certain scenarios, but useless if the encounter is a second shorter than its duration. Dumb, gimmicky mechanics like this gave Demonology a sort of legacy vibe to it that no other spec succeeded at capturing. Many players enjoy simple things on paper, but when explored the simple things often fail to have a depth to them. A balanced game is fair, but not inherently fun. In Conclusion Let's not think of Demonology's live server representation as merely a memorial to what it was in the past. It is the first draft of something BfA and future expansions can refine and enhance into a great spec many players can enjoy playing.Relisa10 18h
19h You want REAL change? Boycott the game. Do not log on, do not pay your subscription, post thread after thread showing your frustrations. Nothing will change as long as they have money coming in. Boycotting works, so take the pain of not being able to play or else this game will never go in the direction it should be going. We will end up with a mobility skill, a defensive CD, an offensive CD, a CC skill and 3 damaging abilities per spec/class. BOYCOTT, if enough people do it they'll have no choice or lose massive profits.Carnivorous33 19h
19h I'm Fed Up! First and foremost I will make it clear that I've been an avid Blizzard game player since I was a wee child at 12 years old. I've spent 17 years playing Warcraft, Starcraft, Diablo and WoW. I've rarely ever complained about anything within any of these games up until Legion. Now I am at the point where I'd say that I'm officially fed up with the WoW Class developer's direction for this game. More specifically with the amount of pruning happening within our beloved game, the simplicity and slowing down of rotations. The reduction of player choice. I've dealt with the pruning from WoD up through Legion. I've barely been able to tolerate it. Now with BfA we're getting pruned even more. Rotations within our classes keep getting slowed down. Classes are being dumbed down to the point where a 5 year old can play them easily. I even have the proof. I'm done dealing with it. This was once a complex and engaging game. Now it's so far from recognizable it makes me sick. The developers have completely stopped listening to their player base when it comes to class and spec design. Apparently they think that fewer abilities equals more and engaging type of play. Well I'm sorry but it's the exact opposite. I'm sure there will be many of you that will call me out for being vague. There is a point to my vagueness because I have played each and every single class and spec over the years and I've gone through all of the changes and right now is the point where I just have to say that it's enough. Just for those people that say it's fine that we have less abilities, less choice, slower rotations... I've made some videos comparing old expansions to Legion. Doesn't even include BfA. We have pretty close to half the abilities and choice that we've had compared to at least MoP. This includes glyphs. Slower rotations? Ha! They are much much much slower for one because of the pruning, and also with GCD increases to certain classes as well as haste reduction across the board. For those that do doubt me, I would challenge you to go do the digging up yourself. I also have hundreds of screen shots that could show just the amount of abilities we've lost across the board. I was just glancing at a few and it struck a very sad cord inside of me. I miss my Hunters. I miss my abilities. I miss the GLORY! The words that I write are passionate, not necessarily anger. I've poured so much into this game over the years and I feel like I'm watching it die right before my eyes and there's nothing I can do about it. I'm fed up Blizzard. You have lost my trust. And this is coming from a long time fan boy. You've lost your courage. Your passion. Your creativity. Along with this you have lost my respect. Someone has to stand up and make it known to the developers that this horrible creation can not go on any longer. It has to end and things have to change. NOW.Faraya78 19h