Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes

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11s Devs: Can We Get a Blue Post About Tanks? Look, I know no one likes the "waaa I want blue attention!" posts, but I think any tank that's spent significant time on beta has to be wondering at this point, right? What in the world is going on with tank balance? What is the intended balance? I can solo normals at 110 easily on my DH. I just did Atal'dazar without my HP bar ever visibly moving. I don't need a healer on blood DK. My prot warrior dies if a couple extra mobs join a trash pack. Which model is correct? What is the intended balance here? I don't even know the design philosophy behind tanks anymore. You look at something like blood DK -- you have competing and interacting resources (Runic power and runes) with a two pronged AM (physical damage shield, self-healing). You have talents that manipulate and interact with resource generation (Runestrike/Heart Breaker) and CDs (Rune tap, Red Thirst, Tombstone). The talents are competitive. You have a way to spend your AM resource offensively. This is excellent design, numbers tuning aside. All of the levers for a fun and successful tank are there. Then you look over at Prot Warrior and Brewmaster. No recovery skills, minimum skill interactions, simple rotations of "push what isn't on CD" with little decision making within the kit. Both suffer badly in a huge bevy of content, both are completely anchored to their healers, neither offer anything meaningful to their raid group. Brewmaster is good for cheesing single large hits. That's it. That's the only thing they're the best at, and obviously none of those hits are going to be designed for ONLY a brewmaster to survive, meaning the benefits they offer in that single niche are probably outweighed by their higher mana cost on healers and lack of raid utility. Prot Warrior is worse than Guardian Druid in every situation in terms of EHP. A Guardian Druid still suffers from a small rotation with minimal decision making and non-competitive talents. I just don't even understand what the intended design is anymore. My guild's trying to figure out group composition going into BfA -- I'm trying to figure out if I even still want to tank -- and I can't tell them right now because I frankly don't know. If DH is the balance level to tune to, then yeah, I'll really enjoy tanking. If DH has a nerf into the ground pending, then I'm not sure where I'm at. I like the gameplay ideas behind warrior, but it's borderline unplayable at the moment. Paladin fulfills the shield-tank fantasy better with more recovery tools, cooldowns, and raid utility. Druid fulfills the mitigation tank fantasy better by being overall stronger against physical damage (their HP more than compensates for their very slightly lower mitigation). So what is warrior even supposed to be? I have no idea because there's been zero communication about this. Brewmaster used to be fun but has had a ton of utility, depth, and just overall fun stripped from it. Now I'm pleaing with Purifying brew to not leave me like I'm in high school all over again with no other option on what to do other than hope I live long enough (thanks to my healers) to get a purify. I just really want to know how Blizzard feels about tanks -- what are their roles, what are their design goals for tanks, which tanks do they feel are currently successful and which aren't, etc. Is Blizzard still committed to simplifying playing tank to make it more accessible? etc. I want to know what's going on. I'm begging you Blizz, please. Edit: To clarify, I am not talking about numbers. I'm talking about design, toolkit, robustness, etc. Brewmaster and Warrior both would either have to be brokenly overpowered to be viable at this point. Brewmaster's at a point doing things like reverting the 7.2.5 ISB changes should be on the table. Shackles being baseline for Prot Warriors should be on the table. That's how far behind they are right now. (I just want to note, giving more ISB flexibility would SIGNIFICANTLY help Brewmaster feeling better).Auntlers193 11s
3m See you all in 8.1 Since hunter feedback is literally ignored or not acknowledged until weeks later and the hunter class seems to be heading down the same path again as legion with ignored feedback until it goes live where more people speak up with the bad design its really pointless to keep testing a class that Blizzard doesn't care enough about to fix or address especially when there has been plenty of valid feedback or suggestions. 1200 posts about MM 64 pages BM thread the lets talk thread part 1 lets talk thread part 2 ^ both threads here are the biggest memes of the hunter community as it stands as it shows how little has been done by the devs to reach out to hunters. instead of hiding behind twitter or making claims of reading both but not actually making any logical response to the issues brought in a hunter thread perhaps someone could actually take the time to address the hunter specs.Manales1 3m
6m The state of Marksmanship This thread is intended to address, in a comprehensive manner, the current position of Marksmanship in BfA. Since Blizzard has repeatedly said that tuning passes have not yet been done, I'll be specifically focusing on mechanical issues and features, along with proposals to fix them (derived from several of the very long MM threads here and in the Class Development section), though I will also be noting significant tuning issues as well. I'll be modeling this after some of the higher quality feedback posts made recently for other classes/specs. Core Issues The baseline rotation works reasonably well. However, it has some issues. Aimed Shot's cast time. Many players feel the base cast time is too long, and causes the entire rotation to feel slow. Unbonused Arcane Shot damage. It feels low, and makes steady/arcane filler feel unrewarding. Rapid Fire as a generator. This prevents it from scaling with mastery, making it fall behind as gear improves, and causes very weird playstyles with focus management, especially with talents. Lack of a power-feeling signature shot. Rapid Fire is arguably the closest to that, but it doesn't have the same powerful feel as a true signature shot (Chimera Shot or Windburst, for example). Precise Shots feels weird in AoE situations. Multi-Shot doesn't consume it, meaning you either have to waste the buff, or weave in single-target Arcane Shot casts during AoE. Sustained AoE feels problematic. Aimed does a LOT of damage with Trick Shot, but once you're out of charges, you're basically reduced to spamming low-damage Multi-Shot. Trick Shots requires 3 targets to activate, but the Rapid Fire effect is clearly intended for 2-target cleave. The limited AoE range on Multi-Shot can at times make triggering Trick Shots an issue even in AoE situations. The RNG in the base rotation is extremely low. The only RNG is the number of Precise Shots charges you gain from Aimed Shot, and that's of very limited impact. Talents that add RNG have extremely low proc rates or no rotational changes associated with them. Many talents in general feel very low impact, either because their effects aren't terribly noticeable or because they have extremely low proc rates. We also have AoE talents competing with ST talents. Our primary cooldown, Trueshot, doesn't feel as impactful as other class CDs, and requires a very specific set of conditions in order to use properly (no Aimed Shot charges, enough time and focus to cast Aimed Shot before you get another charge, RF not coming off cooldown before you get off that first AiS cast). The benefit of Haste feels low. It doesn't affect the cooldown time on Aimed Shot or Rapid Fire (a departure compared to most classes), meaning that increased haste simply increases the percentage of our time filling with Steady and unbonused Arcane. Haste actually scales reasonably well for us despite this, but it still doesn't feel very good. Lone Wolf is currently not worth using due to damage balance and pet utility Moving between targets while soloing can involve a lot of waiting because our passive focus regen is so slow. Detailed Analysis Aimed Shot The cast time on Aimed Shot is easily one of the most commonly complained about elements of MM in BfA. Players often assert that it makes the rotation feel slow, and leaves the hunter vulnerable to necessary movement (and a loss of the entire cast time so far) for significant length of time. Aimed Shot currently represents the longest non-talented hardcast ability in any DPS rotation in BfA. Chaos Bolt has the same base cast time, but is almost always cast with the 30% reduction from Backdraft. The only two talents that provide similar or longer hardcasts (Destruction's Soul Fire, 4.0s cast, and Fire's Pyroclasm, 4.5s cast) involve intentional talent choices and only occur once every 30-45 seconds in normal gameplay. Marksmanship uses AiS an average of once every 12 seconds. This cast time, along with the dominance of AiS casts and AiS-based effects (Precise Shots, Trick Shots) in both our single-target and AoE rotation, is a very commonly cited source of MM feeling "slow" in BfA. A common recommendation is to drop the base cast time to 2.5s and adjust Arcane Shot damage to compensate for the slight increase in filler GCDs per minute.Kaedys59 6m
6m Survival lacks identity and fantasy Right now survival doesn't really fill any boxes of a successful or synergistic spec. The abilities have no interaction beyond a generator and spender, even with talents it's a weak synergy at best, and there is no end-goal or fantasy to the spec. What is the role of survival within the game? Is it a melee dot class given that we have the option to be running 3-4 dots at a time on a target? Is it a tracker/hunter fantasy? Where is the big "oomph" that would give the sort of feel of ending a hunt? There is no real beginning, end, or climax to the rotation. Even the primary cooldown is just +damage and perhaps some RNG resource generation. It makes no real gameplay change. Then even looking at secondaries, crit has absolutely zero interaction beyond the base function within the spec making it feel pretty lackluster, and mastery doesn't even impact the parts of the ability that make you feel like a hunter such as the one remaining damage dealing trap or the tools we use to hunt such as wildfire bomb. The lack of synergy within the abilities though is a glaring issue. Any ability could be removed and it wouldn't make a dramatic change in the spec. If you sped focus regen up a bit, KC serves no purpose as it's just a raw generator. If serpent sting or raptor strike were removed you could just dump resources with the other, and if wildfire bomb was removed, well I mean the only reason to hit it now is it's a slightly better use of a GCD and it doesn't cost anything so why not? Then we're left with no real payoff within the spec. There is no climax to playing it. Where is that moment of excitement within the spec? Nothing changes, there is no reason to get excited. The live version has those small moments at max mongoose bite stacks when you're hitting those gigantic bites, or with that full stack of the chest with a huge butchery cleave. That simply doesn't exist in the current spec, even with the mongoose bite talent. I know it's into early beta, but I think there is some hope for survival to come together, it just needs to really tie together a lot of the loose ends that exist right now.Kerila43 6m
28m No Class themed armor... Lazy mode? So all Clothies will look the same? All Plate - Mail - Leather? Was this change done to free up time for the art dept to push out more allied races or something else? I am very concerned about "class identity" being lost in the shuffle here. The "uniqueness" of a Warlock looking like or having access to Warlock themed gear now looking the same as a mage or priest. I remain optimistic with this change however I just really can't help but think this is a lazy move by Blizzard and is somehow being justified as not lazy. Since the beginning of this game we have always had visual class identity, now that is gone....... thoughts?Bloodpain30 28m
32m [Feedback] Survival hunter flaws Hello, I have leveled a SV hunter to 120, done some dungeons and practice on the training dummies for some time now, and I must admit as someone who mained Legion SV hunter, it seems like a big downgrade. Please note this is the first time for me giving feedback, so It might not be as good as others. I'm not gonna call myself a raider, so my experience might not matter much as it comes from more of a casual stand point, yet I hope it holds some importance. Survival in Legion was quite fun, It was however bothersome to keep dots and Mok'nahal up at all times, but its what made the spec interactive and engaging. I admit screwing up or slowing down was punishing, yet It had a certain charm to it that made it fun to play if you managed to see past its flaws that other melee specs did not have. Its damage was not as great as other specs either, It wasn't awful but not top-tier either. The changes in BFA are currently not so great in my opinion. From what I wanted in Legion to make Survival even better was not what I got, and instead I'm left with a spec that appeals to me so little that I consider maining something else. --------------- Kill command's damage is lackluster, and just makes me think of BM. It has the 10% increased attack speed buff which is alright due to the focus of auto attack damage we got in BFA now. However I'd like to see Flanking strike replace this ability as it fit the Survival aspect much more. Serpent sting : I don't see why this exists, why? Its animation isn't that great and it feels clunky. Why couldn't it just be a passive for you Raptor strike? Add Eagle aspect in for the extra ranged and you got yourself a serpent sting right there. Its only saving grace is that it does some good damage with the proc, and its DoT isn't that bad either but I don't see why we need it to be a ranged attack. If we had carve back, and SP applied to it we'd be able to DoT more enemies rather than having to target different mobs to apply the serpent sting. The animation as well is not as good, you're there slashing away and then pull out a crossbow just to shoot the target once. Something that used to be a passive and more easy to use turned into a annoying click-when-procs ranged spell won't make it more attractive than what MM or BM offers. Wildfire: This one is okay, reminds me pretty much of Dragonsfire grenade and its damage is alright too. I've not started to use its talent which changed what it does, since Chakrams feel more rewarding and Wildfire without the talent does enough damage. Aspect of the eagle: This one is a bit neutral for me, I miss the 20% increase to crit and the chances of Moongoose procs since it was very good for burst. Its appealing for certain encounters and PVP but the damage from Raptor strike alone isn't all that great. The rotation: Its easy and boring. You got Kill command, serpent sting for when it procs or runs out, wildfire, and raptor strike and cordinated assault. Legion's rotation had; Moongoose, raptor strike, lacerate, Flanking strike, Spitting cobra, Eagle's 20% crit, Snake hunter, Explosive trap, Harpooon for its small dot, Steel trap / caltrops , Fury of the eagle. Sure it got messy sometimes, and it was annoying to keep up all those things but when you got used to it, It was much more fun than just smashing KC all the time, to then use raptor strike, then serpent sting, rince and repeat. Currently, BFA's survival is so awkward to play. I know it differs from people to people since some love it, but I see a big missed opprotunity. Why couldn't it be like Legion's survival? If they had lowered the intensity of keeping up dots and Mok'nathal, made it more rewarding to keep your rotation going, added in Wildfire as baseline maybe or Chakrams... I feel like it would've been great, much better than what we got now and in BFA.Jevus4 32m
40m BFA Frost DK feedback Frost just feels weak, plain and simple. I main this class on live and have been a frost dk pretty much since its release. Obliterate feels lackluster at best and frost strike along with it. The procs from Howling blast feel okay but they are few and far between leaving your dps up to RNG, which doesnt feel good at all. The 100 talent row feels very stong as is should being thats your main cooldown row but the class feels balanced around that row instead of being good but also with a perk. my conclusion is maybe tone down the 100 row and bring everything else up a bit?Obliterrole72 40m
55m Mistweaver Monk Feedback Hi there, looking to see what fellow mistweavers think about their changes going into Beta. I've had the alpha since it launched in the family and friends stage, but haven't had much opportunity to play with my monk. What are your thoughts on soothing mist being a casted ability? I feel like this limits our ability to be a more traditional healer and forces us to focus more on fistweaving. How about Effuse being removed? I'm going to try it in more dungeons soon, but I already miss having the low mana cost spot heal in Effuse. What other changes have you noticed in the spec that you think will significantly change our gameplay? -QuinnastreQuinnastre216 55m
56m [PvE] BfA Discipline Priest Feedback (cross post from ) Good morning (or afternoon depending where you are and when you’re reading this). I’m Mend, co-admin and webmaster for Focused Will (a Discipline Priest community, and guide author for the Icy Veins Discipline Guide. The current state of Discipline in Alpha/Beta has been overall close to the same playstyle we have today with some less bells and whistles we had due to the removal of Light’s Wrath. This isn’t really of major concern because I think this is the current state of any spec after losing many of the traits from the artifacts as well as the artifact abilities themselves. However, I think Discipline needs some work in regards to Mastery and several of the talents in order to remain competitive with other healing spec's in Battle for Azeroth. I believe Discipline in Beta right now is about 80% of the way to being in good shape, with some minor tweaks still being needed. As a group, we’ve determined a few specific things that need some attention before BfA goes live (second post).Mendpriest184 56m
57m Assassination Talent Changes I would like to open a line of discussion with the devs, as it currently stands- in both live and Beta- Assassination has two distinct build paths; Bleed focus and Poison focus. In legion bleed build was the strongest up until mid-late EN wherein it failed to even kind of compete with poison build until around lateish ToS however even then it wasn't as good, required a very specific stat budget and trait set, and in doing so would lock you in to bleed build as it and poison didn't share the same stats/traits. BFA has gone a long way to fix this, and in truth a lot of the things I've been griping about have come to pass, especially adding bleeds to our mastery, that combined with haste effecting bleeds again has really shoved bleed build into a position where it can compete with poison build all expansion long. However I believe there's still a disconnect where our talent tree is trying to allow this for us and yet isn't quite accomplishing it. For instance, I wholeheartedly believe dispatch should be deleted from the talent tree and given to us baseline, and replaced with Hemorrhage, with the changes to bleeds it can further help shove the bleed spec to where it needs to be (and actually be used). The first row would essentially be as it is now on live and further push the decision "Do I want to focus on poisons? A more neutral path? Or maybe bleeds?" Secondly, Venom rush is just as bland as it is on live, however it now has the added bonus of being worse, if this ABSOLUTELY MUST stay please include dispatch onto it, as when dispatch and venom rush are talented, we essentially lose an entire talent once the target hits 30% which is neither fun or engaging to lose an entire talent. If it must stay, a rollback to WoD Venom Rush would be stellar, max energy increased by 15, 5% increased energy regen per target poisoned up to a max of 3 targets. Further, our level 100 talent "Hidden Blades" feels like a boring, uninspired placeholder because you didn't know what else to put there for our AoE tier. Please consider the following: Delete Hidden Blades (can even be nerfed and added to our azurite traits) Replace Hidden Blades with WoD Venom rush but with an additional 10% energy regen. This would leave the earlier Venom Rush redundant, and allow for another single target focused ability to replace it, I think the perfect one for the job is Shadow Reflection. I can see how venom rush being there could be overtuned, as it would still be good in single target, and great on aoe/cleave though so tuning would be necessary. Also, maybe this will be addressed by azurite traits but as someone who loves poison spec (it's why I rolled rogue way back when, I loved crafting my own poisons) for a spec that supposedly revolves around it only having ONE baseline offensive poison, and no options to talent into another (aside from poison bomb, bleh) is incredibly confusing and boring.Worgandonor12 57m
58m Destro Talents Are Overly Passive Destruction Warlock has a problem. Not with the core rotation. That's pretty much the same as it's been since Mists of Pandaria, and it's a solid one. No, the problem is that the talent choices are severely lacking in options for complexity. A good spec has a solid and simple core rotation and then the talents let the player add complexity as desired. A little or a lot, new procs or new abilities, ways to spend resources faster or in different ways. Not only does this let players customize play feel of the spec to suit themselves, but unless they go out of their way to pick all passive options it adds the complexity the core rotation doesn't offer. However, at the moment, the Destro talents are overwhelmingly passive damage improvements that do little to nothing to alter the play rotation. Even the talents that add a new ability only offer short cooldowns you hit as soon as they light up with no interact with the rest of the rotation. Let's look at the talents from the Level 15, 30, 90, and 100 tiers. Five are pure passive damage increases. Fine, you want one on each tier so that the player isn't forced into too much complexity, and you need Grim of Sacrifice for the people who really want to go petless. But another three are nearly entirely passive as well. Eradication might as well just say, "Try to cast two Chaos Bolts together." Internal Combustion is just "Recast Immolate more often." Grim of Supremacy just makes your existing 3m cooldown stronger, because you need to be casting those Chaos Bolts anyway so you don't SS cap. Meanwhile, what do the four new ability choices offer? CDF and Soul Fire are buttons that light up every X seconds and get pushed without much planning because they don't interact with anything else. They're basically "Get a slightly altered Chaos Bolt that has some small perks but doesn't trigger your Chaos Bolt talents or Azurite traits." Shadowburn is, "Get a second weaker Conflag button that helps execute WQ mobs." Only Dark Soul is actually powerful, which is why it's the clear leader on the tier. There's no procs, there's nothing that encourages you to alter your rotation, and the short cooldown abilities don't require you to plan around them coming up. In short, the talent choices are full of passive options with no way to build synergistic talent picks or increase the complexity of the rotation in interesting ways. I dearly hope that there are plans for another pass at the Destro talents. As they stand they're a really disappointing lot.Ilkoland15 58m
1h Remove Two-Handed Requirement Srvl Hunters Currently on the BFA beta only Harpoon and Raptor Strike for abilities require two-handed weapons, others require just a melee weapon or don't have a weapon requirement, Butchery and Mongoose Bite are the only talents that require two-handed weapons. There really is no reason for these to have a weapon type requirement when the majority of the Srvl toolkit doesn't even have a weapon requirement. Having a melee requirement would be fine and would take nothing away from the way Srvl plays atm. It would however, open up Srvl more to people who enjoy using two one-handed weapons and their animations, mog models, and overall feel. Please remove the two-handed requirement for these abilities/talents. (Is it wrong for me to want to chop up my enemies with axes like Rexxar?)Murinae29 1h
1h [Feeback] Fury Warrior: Rotation & Talents As it stands now on Beta, Fury warrior has lost a lot of what made the spec fun in Legion without compensation. I can only assume more is coming for the Fury warrior, and too that end here is a compiled list of what I think is good and bad about the specialisation. The good: - Retains the core structure of building rage with BT and RB and spending rage on Executes and Rampages - Enrage is back to 6 seconds and is more comfortable to use as a result - Meat cleaving is more engaging than just spamming WW in sustained AoE scenarios The bad: - Rage generation is quite low since the removal of artifact abilities and legendary bonuses - The attack speed bonus reduction from Enrage exacerbates the low rage generation - AoE is cumbersome since we not only lack any dedicated high damage AoE abilities that we’ve enjoyed in the past such as Bladestorm or Odyn’s Fury - Rage generation while AoEing is especially poor since WW does not generate rage. This results in very few opportunities to cleave Rampages which feels bad. - The execute phase sends mixed messages on how to play and is thus non-intuitive. Enrage up time is primarily provided by Rampage, however you’ll never have rage to cast an execute if you’re Rampaging during this execute window. - It is still possible in some builds to need to spend several globals in a row casting buff spells (ie: Avatar → Recklessness → Bloodbath) Underpowered abilities: - Recklessness - Recklessness was heavily criticised for multiple expansions for being a weak cool down as 100% crit for 8 seconds is underwhelming on a 60 second cooldown. In Legion this was solved with both Cooldown Reduction (CDR) and a +% damage component via an artifact trait. - Suggestion: Buff recklessness to give a +% damage component, perhaps around ~20%. - Meatcleaving - Due to the inability of the class to generate rage when casting a lot of whirlwinds, the ability to cast Rampages with the meatcleaving buff is very low to non existent. - Suggestion: Whirlwind should grant rage per target hit. This should be low enough that it’s not worth using on single target but high enough that on 3+ targets it provides a meaningful amount of rage generation.Euphanicen44 1h
1h [Feedback] Elemental Gameplay Mechanics Hello community, It’s time for the Storm Earth & Lava team to voice a few concerns with the state of Elemental Shamans in Battle for Azeroth. For the uninitiated, we are a group of Elemental theorycrafters that launched our resource Storm Earth & Lava in December of 2016. Since then, we’ve provided a hub of guides and articles about the spec in Legion, and will continue to do so into Battle for Azeroth. I write today as the “official voice” of the team. Please note that the goal of this post is not general spec discussion, but to highlight a few focused issues we have with Elemental’s playstyle. We will not comment on the spec’s numbers, and would like to keep discussion directed at playstyle -- however, some of our points require numbers to elucidate our argument. Table of Contents Echo of the Elements - Movement issues: Frost Shock and Earth Shock - Area of effect (AoE) pacing - Miscellaneous issues - For the Europeans, my good friend Bloodmallet has posted this on the EU forums: 1h
1h Brewmasters & Quality of Life A little about me first: I've mained prot warrior, brewmaster monk, and BDK over the course of this expansion, and completed every tier on mythic while it was relevant. I'm not top tier by any means, but I have spent a lot of time playing with these and as someone who almost exclusively tanks these days, I feel like I have some insight into how the tanks compare. My DK is in my profile, and my monk is "Xyrmfu" on the same server. I love my monk. It is my favorite character thematically, mechanically (for raids), and I love the aesthetic. But going into BFA I'm struggling to justify playing it because of how weak it is in 5 mans (M+ is something I find enjoyable and plan to get into more in BFA) and how bad it feels while doing world/quest content, which is a large part of the game to simply "suffer through" for the sake of its strength in raids. I'm a 2 night a week casual and I won't just play a class because it's the best. The Problem IMO, there is a large discrepancy with how playing a brewmaster feels while questing and doing world content compared to any other tank (and to a lesser extent, 5 man content). I'm going to attempt to make the argument that this both feels bad from a gameplay perspective and is discouraging new players from trying the class, and how the problem may be exacerbated in BFA by losing some key points of QOL going into BFA from Legion. I leveled a brewmaster to 120 recently on horde side for Beta and it was a miserable experience. The only thing that even made me able to do all the soloable quest content was the fact that I ran with a boomkin who could spot heal me occasionally. I've played every tank on beta except bear some amount, and monk felt the worst by a large margin, even worse than warrior, which is admittedly unfinished by blizzard. Three mobs could almost kill me at times, where most DPS I played could handle that easily. Even in dungeons, Monk often felt the worst. I believe there's a few reasons for this, so I'll try to outline them in the most organized and clear manner I can, and welcome feedback! Sustain Brewmasters suffer from a severe lack of sustain. Unlike the mitigation tanks (warrior/druid), they don't STOP any damage automatically, they simply delay it, and you can't remove any without purifying brew. Stagger, by design, isn't very effective against consistent incoming damage that you experience while questing and doing 5 mans. This is fine in raids as you have a team of healers (typically where at least one is 100% dedicated to watch tanks) to watch you, but when solo or in 5 mans, you have yourself, and sometimes a healer who's attention is rightfully split. This means while questing, you actually often have to stop to drink/heal/recover MORE than even DPS, which is something no other tank typically has to do (maybe warrior in the current iteration but they are unfinished). Now I'm sensitive as to WHY they don't have the sustain of a DK, pally, or DH tank. That would be grossly overpowered with how well they smooth out damage. That's completely and totally understandable. However, I feel like their sustain is far too low. While the mechanism in which they generate self healing is great for raids, it falls short (to put it mildly) while solo and doing 5 mans. With the tank redesign in Legion, all tanks had additional reliance on healers (although BDK eventually broke out of this as the expansion progressed), and weren't meant to be able to keep themselves alive in raids of their own accord. I feel like there's a lot of room for improvement in both the potency and consistency of self healing while solo without making them overpowered for raids. The first tier of talents for brewmaster represent healing that is so weak and inadequate for sustain that most of us simply pick "Eye of the Tiger" and forget that tier exists. Chi Burst or Chi Wave still heal virtually nothing and simply don't warrant the GCD they cost. Offensive Cooldowns Of which to say, BFA monks have none. And that's fine. Not every tank needs to be the same, or have the same tools. But coupled with the fact that we have the worst sustain, AND no answer to then burst things down faster, means we are even further in the proverbial "hole" when it comes to killing a powerful rare or pulling a large pack of monsters. These template characters were instrumental in highlighting this fact to me, because I doubt I would have noticed if I had copied my live monk over and just mongo'd my way through the content. I'd argue as far as the tanks go by design, monks need a DPS cd MORE than other tanks, simply because they will never sustain like a BDK. (Continued in next post)Xyrmortus130 1h
2h BM Leech bug? Is the leech supposed to work with mend pet? Even when my pet is full health my leech heals me based on the mend pet healingMyt0 2h
2h BFA Feral Feedback Posted on behalf of Guiltyas from the Dreamgrove discord. Feral Druid feedback- BFA Feral seems to be little changed from the baseline Feral in legion other than in a few areas, It’s little secret that my preference for Feral is oriented more towards the slower bleed focused playstyle of early legion and latter expansions so bear in mind my feedback will be coloured by this. Talent Layout A recent dev watercooler introduced an interesting idea, that talent rows which are choices between AOE and ST aren’t good design. I agree with this, it’s not particularly interesting as it makes talent rows very binary. This is something the current Feral talent tree suffers from (Brutal Slash and Predator as the biggest culprits). Having talked about this with other respected members of dreamgrove we have a proposed idea for a new set up talent tree (Big credit to Xanzara). We assumed blizzard wanted to keep a passive in each row so it’s set up that someone can choose an almost entirely passive set of talents or a set where almost every talent gives an extra ability. Obviously this is just something some people discussed and put together but it would be interesting to see blizzards take on it. It really is something that i think would improve the specs talent options and it would be interesting to see more discussion about this. Underperforming talents Tiger’s Dash and Renewal are the talents here that I think would most be considered underperforming. I can’t think of any fight this expansion where renewal was a good choice and it really doesn’t make sense on the row its on, It is the only healing talent competing on a row of mobility talents. With the changes to Regrowth it isn’t even a comparatively strong healing option, It is approximately twice as strong as an average regrowth on a 90 second cd. This talent existed through legion and stayed underwhelming. I’d like to see this changed or replaced. Tiger’s dash is a new addition for legion replacing displacer beast, it replaces dash. As it is at the moment it appears to be strictly worse than Wild Charge. The ability itself is ok though a little weak but the opportunity cost for taking the talent is enormous as it replaces dash and also means you miss out on Wild Charge. It makes no sense that the talent is on a 45 second cd compared to the 15s cd of Wild Charge while also meaning you no longer have dash as baseline. Feral mobility is a luxury, unlike many classes we have extremely high base move speed, tiger’s dash just doesn’t seem like a good option in a world with Wild Charge. I like the talent but it needs a buff Boring Talents Blood scent might be the most boring talent ever created. For all intents and purposes it is a talent that gives you 10% crit. And that’s it. It’s extremely boring and hopefully it can be changed or replaced. We’ve seen other classes get legendaries baked in as talents, potentially behemoth could fit in blood scent’s place? It remains a passive but makes the talent not criminally boring! Sabertooth is another example of a boring talent, while the talent is semi interesting in cleave scenarios in single target it is a talent that actively removes thought from your rotation. This talent existed throughout the entirety of legion as a new addition and outside of PvP has seen almost no use. It’s not a strong talent and its not an interesting or enjoyable talent. Incarnation, this is entirely my own personal opinion, but incarnation is an extremely boring talent for Ferals. There are a few reasons I think this, to start with I believe that overly focusing throughput into long CD abilities that have a big impact on damage (which incarnation certainly does) makes the rotation outside of the cds far more boring as it becomes less impactful. Incarnation in particular doesn’t make you play differently, it just becomes 30s of spamming.Snuffly263 2h
2h Elemental Shaman | Fundamental Issues Lavallama touched on some of these issues in another post. And a special thanks to Raden, a friend of mine that helped write this post. So I know this thread has a lot of constructive criticism in it but I do want to point out that we do like some of the changes. Coming into BFA we do appreciate the changes in our survivability and self preservation as a spec. Allowing us to be viable in high end mythic + content. Flame Shock Duration and Cooldown Issues: * The duration of Flame Shock doesn't compliment the duration of the ascendance buff. * Duration is almost impossible to keep up on 3 targets * Target switching is a pain like in Warlords. * Cant use it anymore as an "on the move" spell. * Makes PvP priority target switching even worse than PVE and the debuff can just be dispelled in PVP with no reproccusion Possible Solutions: * Have a interaction with lava surge LvB casts to have a Path of Flame Mechanic to spread flameshock. * Lower CD by 50%, Duration of Flame shock isn't as bad of an issue. * Have a reprocussion for Flame Shock Dispells in pvp. * Have 2 Stacks of FLame Shock | Maybe even have a simliar interaction to reset the CD of Flameshock like Lava Surge. Maelstrom Generation Issues Issues: * Forcing Cookie Cutter Build to fill the void of mealstrom gap with such talents: Echo of the Elements, Aftershock, Storm Elemental/High Voltage (If high voltage isn't bugged), Primal Elementalist cus (Icefury isn't worth the maelstrom cost of FrostShocks), Storm Keeper (To eliminate AOE build up). * Chain Lightning Generating low maelstrom, having to cast 4-6 times before earthquake can be casted. * Earthquake Costs too much maelstrom, causing 3 target situations to continue using Earthshock instead. Possible Solutions: * Increase Maelstrom generated by Chainlightning to eliminate slow build up for aoe. * Increase Maelstrom generation scaling from elemental overloads thus not overpowering Mastery proc chance. * Reduce cost of Earthquake to 50 so we can cast twice at full maelstrom. Eliminating aoe buildup. Start of Expansion and Late Expansion Scaling * Elemental Scaling has been an issue and a reputation with the class, we would prefer to be adjusted later in the expansion when the gear comes in then to start out weak and unviable in high end content for the first raid tier. Mobility issues Coming from Legion Issues: * Gust of wind Removed leaving us with low combat mobility and a sour taste in our mouths. And nothing in return for the removal of the talent. * We have no spells to use while moving aside from instant cast spells, though they are either gated behind maelstrom costs or long CD's. Outside of RNG with lava surge procs we don't have the "stutter step capabilities" like other casters do. Possible Solutions: * Gust of Wind was a "baseline talent" in which it was so good that we took it in almost every situation. So making it baseline would be preffered. Other casters have at least 2 mobility spells while we are stuck with ghost wolf. * Allow Lightning Bolt to be castable while moving, or give us back Spirit Walkers grace as a baseline ability. We know that numbers adjustments are still to come and we know that elemental still has some bugs to fix but we hope that these points will help or the existence of the said issues are already known.Barokoshama99 2h
2h Horde, No Pally in Allied Races Forgive me if this has been posted before, search doesnt appear to be working for me. I had a co-worker come up to me yesterday and tell me he would be switching to alliance because none of the Horde allied races can be a Paladin. What gives 2 of the Alliance races can be a Paladin.Ceat20 2h
2h Holy Paladin Feedback Redoing the thread for the Beta Forums Tier 60 I don't think I hate Aura of Sacrifice as much as other people do. I like the trade-off between sacrificing your health (or at least the cooldown of Divine Shield) for an incredibly impactful raid cooldown. However, I will agree with other posters that both the passive and the active don't feel different enough from Devotion Aura. I still think Aura of Mercy is fine as an option among a row of aura talents, but I'm not very excited by it. Using Aura Mastery with Mercy feels like you haven't really done much. At least in Legion we were able to provide the 15% increased healing for 8 seconds from Protection of Tyr. Tier 75 I like the choice between Judgment of Light and Holy Avenger. I don't know how noticeable losing 15 stacks per application on top of losing Il'terendi will feel for Judgment of Light, but my guess is that this is still a comparable decision. I feel like Holy Prism is still lackluster. I think this talent has lost a lot of its power now that Light of Dawn has such a short cooldown (compared to LoD being ~20 seconds as a Holy Power spender when Holy Prism was more prominent in Cata/MoP). I think the design of damage plus healing can work really well with other more damage-focused talents, but it just doesn't feel as impactful as other choices on this row. [continued]Dreamguard188 2h
2h Ret Paladin design Ret feels better designed in BfA than it was in Legion, but a second pass would do it a world of good. Here are some suggestions. // Rotation // Changing the Judgment window to only apply to the next finisher was an excellent choice. However, the abilities in our baseline rotation sort of blur together because they deal similar damage. I think the problem here is that Judgment has a little bit of an identity crisis that could be solved by lowering both its damage and its cooldown (from 12 sec to 8). Judgment's focus should be on repeatedly applying the debuff for lots of hard-hitting Templar's Verdicts. The next problem I've experienced is that Ret has no baseline procs. Am I not playing the spec that had Seal of Casino and The Art of War? How about Divine Purpose as our original mastery? I don't think there should exist a build that is devoid of procs and that shiny Ashbringer spell alert. Therefore, I suggest baseline Blade of Wrath. Lastly, Hammer of Wrath, an ability that is only available in certain circumstances, is only higher in priority than measly Crusader Strike. I don't really care how this is fixed so long as it's fixed. // Mobility // I like the recent approach to death knight mobility where they got Death's Advance baseline and then Wraith Walk was made a talent. How about move Divine Steed to our talent tree in place of Cavalier, and for Ret baseline mobility you give us Long Arm of the Law: Judgment increases movement speed by X%. Then if you wanna get crazy you can create a PvP talent that causes Judgment to dispel one movement impairing effect. // Utility // I want to first reiterate how important it is to reduce the cooldown of Judgment to 8 sec. This greatly improves the flow of our rotation, makes the Long Arm idea a lot more attractive, and Selfless Healer is now a useful talent. My main gripe with Ret utility is how much of it is passive or largely useless. Kings fits both criteria. Wisdom can be good occasionally, but I wouldn't miss it if it were gone. The Retribution passive is even more passive than one hour long buffs, and it's odd that a mechanic added purely for flavor has no graphic or sound effect. I realize to a developer this probably sounds like a rather drastic request, but can we just sweep all of these away? (You can add Cleanse Toxins to the list as well, which has devolved into such a sad little spell that its sole purpose in life is to screw with Assassination Rogues.) In their place, give us something that's exciting to press, whether that be a true raid buff or a third baseline blessing. // Misc changes // Adjust Blinding Light to a 1 min CD with a 4 sec duration, add a 50% snare to Cons so it can better compete with Wake of Ashes, and lower the cost of Justicar's Veng to 3 holy power (and its damage a little as well) so that it's useful without DP. Alright, that's all I've got. Here's to hoping.Churchmouse103 2h
2h Transmog in BFA OK, dumb question considering the more important issues to be dealt with, but... Im reading there are a lot more restrictions, like Artifact tints locked to specs and even weapons themselves locked to specific specs and such in BFA. Can anyone confirm what the rules are in regard to; A) artifact appearances B) spec locks C) weapon type locks I figure if its jacked up as it sounds so far to or if certain things are true I wont bother wasting time chasing things i wont be able to use.Mulconroi6 2h
3h Guardian Druid Feedback Just got the game downloaded since I have crappy internet. Haven't done much testing yet on Guardian Druid but if anyone has feedback/thoughts on the class feel free to post it here, since I went through 4 pages and didn't see a thread for Guardian Druid Feedback. The few things I noticed was Lunar Beam is still lackluster compared to Rend and Tear, Ironfur I got 2 stacks ( almost 3 stacks) but it still felt like the duration was too short and the Frenzied Regeneration feels weird now with longer CD and less heal-output.Caféaulait163 3h
3h Unholy DK BfA Feedback Thread part 2 First thread hit post limit. In case anyone missed anything, start here : Hopefully this thread can continue with more actual feedback.Rothulian48 3h
3h Beastmaster Hunter Feedback Greetings Beastmaster hunters, The purpose of this thread is a collective of any feedback, concerns, gameplay issues, bugs, or other misc. things that come up during game play. if possible please comment with any talent set up run during gameplay if in dungeons or logs if applicable. otherwise just apply any and all input for the class whether it be talents, pets *AI, pathing, etc.* Thank you all, and Looking forward to testing with everyone! Edit: google doc compiled with with information so far (live document). reference here for forum version of Google doc thread detailing the haste scaling problem.Manales298 3h
3h [Feedback] Balance Druid: Rotation & Talents EDIT: When the major changes drop, this thread will be marked as *OLD* and a new thread will be created. Why? -- Just to keep the feedback up to date.. Until then, feel free to continue commenting in various threads. _____________________ Balance Druid gameplay is uneventful and provides a poor experience overall. Core Issues: Solar Empowerment and Lunar Empowerment do not provide rewarding gameplay. Single-target rotation can be optimized by a CastSequence macro. AOE output is heavily weighted behind a talent (Shooting Stars). Lunar Strike is insignificant in AOE despite having a splash mechanic. Fury of Elune, Sunfire, and Lunar Strike do not share the same splash radius. Talents have too much of an impact on performance. Some are too weak and others are overpowered. Positive Aspects: Many issues can be resolved through adding simple, passive bonuses to talents. The core spells are proven to work in Legion, so they just need to reinforce their role within the kit. Many issues stem from tuning, which means we don't need significant mechanical changes -- which means it's easier to test ideas. There are dozens of competing ideas to improve gameplay, reading various threads could spark some interesting debates over the direction of the spec's gameplay. Underpowered Effects: Lunar Strike (Splash): Lunar Strike has a really neat ability to splash to nearby enemies. However, the damage is far too low. There is a chance for good synergy between the splash effect and some talents. Suggestion: Buff the splash damage of Lunar Strike to 40% of initial damage, up from 25%. In addition, Warrior of Elune further increases the splash effect to 80% in addition to its 3 instant LS casts. - This suggestion really pushes the role of Lunar Strike as our AOE filler. - It drastically improves our sluggish AOE ramp-up. Stellar Flare: Stellar Flare suffers from a very heavy cost. A Starfall that costs 60, plus the Stellar Flare (10), plus the fact we aren't casting a filler (8), means Stellar Flare costs a bit too much. Suggestion: Shooting Stars now effects Stellar Flare. Remove the Astral Power cost of Stellar Flare. In addition, casting Stellar Flare no longer requires you facing the target. Stellar Flare's duration reduced to 16sec. - This suggestion really pushes tries to make Stellar Flare feel better to play in AOE and Multi-Target. - A short duration turns the gameplay into a micromanagement playstyle. - Significantly harder to play with multiple targets in play. - The only coding change is to Shooting Stars, everything else is just a number. Force of Nature: Force of Nature suffers from scaling issues. The other talents have a notable effect on Astral Power generation. Suggestion: Force of Nature increases the amount of Astral Power generated by Moonfire and Sunfire to 5 (up from 3). - This suggestion speeds up the opener just a little bit. It has a positive impact on Fury of Elune in the opener as well. - Significantly improves Astral Power generation while leveling and in dungeons. - Overall footprint in single-target and AOE is barely increased. - No Wax and Wane, spamming Moonfire isn't exactly that amazing (AP factored in). - Considering possible Warrior of Elune buffs, it keeps FON relevant in the row. Stellar Drift: I'd like Stellar Drift to have relevant use on single-target. The casting-while-moving mechanic is a good bonus in itself, but it needs a little more. I firmly believe Stellar Drift should fill it's niche through the movement mechanic. Suggestion: Stellar Drift increases the duration of Starfall by 25% (10sec, up from 8sec). In addition Stellar Drift increases our Astral Damage by 3%. No longer increases the damage of Starfall by 20% (duration increase does the same thing, basically). - This suggestion is to help the active AOE playstyle, allowing us to cast an additional filler between Starfall casts. - The small 3% bonus damage serves as a tuning value without touching other mechanics. - Effectively, it's a 3% bonus in single-target, but the extra duration is especially strong in prolonged AOE, but it suffers in burst AOE. Fury of Elune fills one niche where Stellar Drift fills another.Cyouskin474 3h
4h Idea for MM Hunter There are many problems with the current MM rendition in Beta, just looking at other specs I have an idea to remedy two of them with one change. Add a talent called "Windburst" or "Chimera Shot" What it does it replaces Arcane Shot with this new ability (ala Fracture Boulderfist etc) that is magic damage, instant cast, and does 3x the damage of Arcane Shot at double the cost and 1 gcd. This alleviates many things. 1. First it would give a big hitting instant cast magic ability to the rotation to use in between RF and AiS. 2. Our downtime in between AiS or RF feels very weak, peppering enemies with SS or unbuffed AS. As it is only 1 gcd having this talent gives us a strong feeling ability that is impactful enough from SS to notice it. 3. The passive for 1-2 buffed AS following AiS can easily be changed to buff the next 'Windmera Shot' so its easy to fit in. Out spec should function in the following manner: AiS on cd RF if under x focus (Windmera Shot) if over x focus SS While thats not very different between using AS and this new ability, the difference is people will feel good pressing the button whereas we currently feel sad pressing an unbuffed AS. By making this as a single target talent you are giving the option to people to have a big hitting ability back. It helps many flow issues with the spec, and should be relatively simple to create.Ladihoodwink6 4h
4h Vengeance DH Talent Feedback and Suggestions Hi all. I have played DH as my main for all of Legion, and have been tanking as Vengeance for the last few raid tiers. I am familiar with the class, and have been enjoying testing out the BFA beta. Having said that, here is my feedback for the current VDH talents in Beta. I include my suggestions to change the least powerful talents, to make them more competitive with all talents in that row. I think that is important because currently there isn't a lot of talent variety taken. Row 1 Abyssal Strike - Infernal Strike's range is increased by 10 yards, its cooldown is reduced by 8 seconds. - Most picked talent. No changes suggested. Agonizing Flames - Immolation's Aura increases your movement speed by 30% and increases its damage by 20%. - Suggest adding "Immolation aura also reduces the cooldown on Fiery Brand by 2 seconds for every target hit by immolation", aka baking the legendary boots ability in. Razor Spikes While demon spikes is active you deal 15% increased physical damage, and your melee attacks snare the target by 20% for 6 seconds. - Weak and uncompetitive talent. Suggest adding to the talent "Also extends the duration of Demon Spikes by 2 seconds". Row 2 Feast of Souls -Soul cleave heals you for an additional 2,024 over 6 seconds. . - Not competitive Suggest increasing the HOT component, or at least letting the HOT stack with itself, which it does not appear to be doing. Fallout - Immolation's Aura initial burst has a chance to shatter Lesser Soul Fragments from enemies. - Most competitive talent. No changes needed. However would like to see the percentage chance listed in the tooltip. Burning alive Every 2 seconds your Fiery Brand deals 141 damage, and spreads to 1 nearby enemy. - Weak and uncompetitive talent. Suggest altering the mechanic to allow Fiery Brand to stack additional Fiery Brand Stacks on target, if there is only 1 target in range." If stacking on same target damage component would stay consistent, but damage reduction would need to be reduced with each stacking application ". Row 3 Flame Crash - Infernal Strike's creates a Sigil of Flame when you land. - Most picked talent. No changes suggested. Charred Flesh - Fiery Brand increases the fire damage you deal to your target by 20%. - Super weak and uncompetitive. Suggest increasing the percentage to 40-50%. And/or "Extend the duration of Fiery Brand by 1 second, for every tick of immolation aura the target is hit by. Felblade Charge to your target and deal 1,219 fire damage to the target. Shear has a chance to reset felblade. - Relatively weak and out of place talent. Suggest switching positions with Gluttony, in Row 6 talents. No other changes suggested.Bigdiggles5 4h
4h Fists of Fury + Spearhandstrike (interrupt) Hello, i would like discuss an issue with Fists of Fury and Spearhandstrike. We are the only melee class that has to interrupt one of its biggest damage abilities to interrupt, why not make it possible to interrupt while the channeling is active. Not being able to interrupt should be caster not a melee thing.Arai15 4h
5h Affliction Warlock Feedback Now that we have switched over from Alpha to Beta, with new forums, it is time for fresh feedback threads. I am first going to go over the changes to Affliction so far, followed by talents and will offer a little feedback mixed in on things I feel should be worked on or changed. This post is not going to be about numbers or tuning, but more about how Affliction feels mechanically. I may discuss numbers briefly but it is not meant to imply any tuning changes. What has changed? Some active abilities and talents have been removed/replaced in the Affliction kit. Removed: Drain Soul Life Tap (Empowered Life Tap with it) Howl of Terror Summon Infernal Summon Doomguard (Grimoire of Supremacy along with these) Grimoire of Service (Imp, Voidwalker, Felhunter, Succubus utility) Reap Souls (Some specs kept their artifact abilities, this would have been useless) Added: Deathbolt (talent) Shadow Bolt Drain Life Shadowfury Overall, we are losing more active abilities than we are gaining, as is the case for many specs in the game. With these changes comes a big loss of utility for Affliction - no more Infernal stun, Cripple, optional Howl of Terror, or bonus Spell Lock, Seduce, Imp cleanse, or clutch Voidwalker taunt from Grimoire of Service. We got Shadowfury, which has a cast time and arguably does not feel like a good enough replacement for all of that. Also, along with most classes, all of the artifact passives for Affliction are gone. This includes things like Soul Flame, Sweet Souls, Wrath of Consumption, etc. We have gained Azerite Armor passives, but many of those have yet to be unveiled. Shadow Bolt/Drain Life vs. Drain Soul This is one of the big debates about Affliction so far. Drain Soul was removed and replaced by both Shadow Bolt and Drain Life. Shadow Bolt functions as the primary damage filler, while Drain Life serves as a high healing, but low damage channel. Drain Soul was one of the strongest fillers in the game in Legion. With all the artifact passives and damage modifiers it gave along with stackable Unstable Affliction, it did an insane amount of damage and healing. It does not particularly come as a surprise to me that Blizzard wanted to tone down the strength of Affliction, but I will say this: Shadow Bolt feels very empty. I liked having it in the past and I was sad to see it go when it did, but without having Nightfall selected (I will discuss this more in the talents section) it is very uninspired and does not feel good when combined with having to stack UA, in my humble opinion. Talents discussion below.Xoja656 5h
5h Arcane Mage - Rotation and Talent Feedback With the changes to arcane in bfa, the spec is feeling a bit too simplified and bare. Arcane has only 3 rotational spells, and one of them is usually only cast when we have clearcasting! The talent, "Mana Adept," makes this issue worse as it has the potential to reduce arcane to literally ONE BUTTON! Yes, you read that right. With mana adept, you can just spam arcane missiles until your mana dips below 80%, then just stand there and wait for it to regenerate so you can resume arcane missile spam. The issue would only get worse with increasing amounts of mastery since mastery increases the mage's mana pool and mana regeneration, while arcane missiles has a fixed mana cost. What arcane desperately needs is a new rotational ability to prevent this kind of degenerate gameplay from developing in the first place. Battle for Azeroth also appears to be repeating the mistake legion made of having all the active talents be weaker than the passive talents. The active talents feel very underpowered and are each competing with powerful passive abilities which have basically been mandatory talents for nearly all of legion and killed any talent diversity among arcane mages. Supernova? A spell which can accidentally be cast on friendly targets, neutering its damage. Also doesn't scale with mastery and has no interaction at all with arcane charges. It competes with resonance, a passive increase to single target and a massive increase to aoe. Nether Tempest? A dot which requires frequent recasts, requires 4 arcane charges when cast, and still does less than 1/3rd the damage of a single arcane blast against a single target. It competes with a passive that is essentially a permanent +8% damage boost against all targets. Arcane Orb? The saddest case yet. A ranged aoe spell that deals good damage, generates arcane charges, and has a short cooldown! This spell sounds amazing, but it just can't compete against overpowered which doubles the damage boost and mana reduction of arcane power. If the power of the active talents aren't balanced against the power passive ones, we will just end up with the situation we had in legion with a single cookie-cutter build for arcane. Please adjust these talents so they are actually viable and so arcane would actually have options among the talent rows. Please make talent diversity possible for arcane this expansion so every arcane mage doesn't feel compelled into using the same set of talents as each other all expansion.Fatcow202 5h
5h [PvP] Affliction Lock Concerns Disclaimer: I know this is beta, I know things change, feedback based on current state – that is aftercall the entire purpose of beta testing. I know affliction has historically done well in arena, possibly too well at times. This feedback is purely about class survivability and sensical gameplay, if you have issues with afflictions offensive potential that would be a different thread. I used the exact amount of words I thought were needed to convey the information I wanted to, that is their purpose. If you feel my post is too long you are in no way obligated to read it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information below is based on level 110 premade’s and the current numbers on the PTR. Feedback centers around Affliction from a PvP perspective specifically and, in a nutshell I feel the class has two core problems in that regard: Cleanse Protection Survivability Cleanse Protection A snippet from Blizzard: “When we started to go down that road, we got some difficult to ignore feedback that Unstable Affliction being able to stack up multiple times on the same target was good uniqueness and flexibility, and that flexibility provided power in a way that was special to Affliction. For much of the spec’s history, it wasn’t good at burst damage or single-target damage, and being able to stack up to 5 Unstable Afflictions on the same target was actually a decent way to fix that.” This issue was already addressed, and in an unquestionably superior way – Haunt. Unstable Affliction was cleanse protection while Haunt allowed us to either frontload burst damage into a single target or cleave across the entire team, trading single target burst for more dot pressure via the haunt debuff. Also, we had to decide between using our shards offensively or defensively. Soulburn summoning circle could save your life, five haunts could end someone else’s. Why would we take a system that is richer and deeper, and best of all - makes logical sense, and trade it for the current model? Our cleanse protection is no longer cleanse protection, it is an incentive to cleanse! It was the same in Legion and BfA is making the exact same mistake. Why would a healer not want to cleanse all my UAs AND all my other debuffs, including a 10% increased damage debuff? Not cleansing UA means not cleansing the rest of my debuffs, not cleansing UA means empowering me to do MORE damage. If anyone at Blizzard feels healers are too scared of a 4 second silence and would rather their team take considerably more damage then I have some bad news, healers never got that message. So why is the conversation “How do we make UA dangerous to dispel but dangerous to leave up without it being unbalanced?” The conversation should be, and should have always been “Why would we take a soul shard spending burst tool, and a cleanse protection tool, and try to merge them together?” Haunt is so clearly the answer to this problem, and I can say that with confidence because haunt… used to be the answer to this problem! I mean just think about it: Option A: Haunt, does damage, has cast time, costs soul shard. Option B: Make cleanse protection cost a very finite resource, now our cleanse protection has far and away the lowest uptime out of all the debuffs its intended to protect, woops? Also make a target take more damage when they have your cleanse protection on them. Oh, and also make cleanse protection our highest most bursty spell. Great, now it does three things! Except well, it doesn’t do the first thing anymore, and since it doesn’t do the first thing anymore it can’t reliably do the other two things, so more often than not it does zero of the things. If only we had eggs we could have ham and eggs, if only we had ham. Also, Endless Affliction is a wasted talent slot, the last thing a Warlock would want in an arena is for UA to do the same amount of damage but take longer to do it. This talent would be great if the healer, for some baffling reason, wasn’t cleansing our dots on cooldown, or we got the old UA, the actual cleanse protection UA, back. As neither of those are the case presently, this is a useless talent. It makes our cleanse protection (I shake my head every time I have to type that) not only do less damage before it’s removed, but also makes UA even more enticing to cleanse, as a longer UA means a longer damage increase debuff. So, a talent that makes my UA do less damage and even further increases the reward to cleanse it? Thanks, but no thanks.Ganaanaa2 5h
5h Frost Mage rotation with bad RNG: 1,1,1,1,1.. Can Blizzard please address Frost Mages right now? They're the same in BFA as they are in Legion, in that outside of cooldowns, EVERYTHING outside of one ability is a damned proc. Not to say you can't use those spells ever, but in virtually 100% of scenarios you won't unless you get a Brainfreeze or Fingers of Frost proc. That azerite trait that made you sometimes hardcast Flurry was interesting but even that was changed to just buff Frostbolt! Frost mages *feel* the worst to play out of any Mage spec, by far. Other specs, even when you don't get RNG for procs, you're actively doing SOMETHING. Fire has enhanced pyrotechnics to eventually guarantee a crit + Fire Blast to use during other spells to get Hot Streaks. Arcane has Mana that you monitor and manage, which is at least something. But Frost? Pop all your CDs and get bad RNG? You literally, no exaggeration, just hit one button. I've popped Icy Veins and gone a full 20 seconds without a single proc, which is the main meat of a Frost Mage's damage. Oh boy do I just LOVE it when I pop my 3-min CD to really lay into an enemy, only to get no procs and just spam my wet-noodle filler. I see Blizzard addressed Balance Druids today, which is good to see. I see they've been addressing issues in other specs. Can we at least get an indication they're looking into the abysmal playstyle of Frost?Astraéus23 5h
6h I miss Sniper Training The schematic was far from perfect, and for the raids out then it hurt at times. But I miss when Aimed Shot had an overall much higher NATURAL source of damage that was to be increased not by a 30% chance on hit, or a 1 minute CD that fired twice, or even a 5% chance Lock and Load proc... But just pure, raw damage, and the way to boost it was simple, be standing in the proper spot for your target. Right now, AiS is getting back on track. but it has a LONG way to go before MM becomes as fun as it was in WoD for me. Again, it wasnt perfect back then, but it was fun. A lot of the power was up to me, not RNG, and my biggest factor was getting crits. Thats it, blamo. Please blizz. Bring something meatier to the table for MM. Im not saying bring back ST, but bring us something that lets OUR OWN PLAYER SKILL define our damage. Like what you did for WW Monk. The Careful Aim talent and other Chance on Hit spam abilities need to be weeded out of the garden for this to happen.Chestius1 6h
6h Azerite armor is a respec tax; nothing else. When Azerite Armor was introduced at Blizzcon, it was sold as a system where you could pick from a number of choices in a row, and from a number of rows as the neck leveled up. Looking back at the screenshots now we should have been looking at what we saw in abhorrence, because it is what we have now. Right now, every piece of Azerite-influenced gear in the game starts with a tier 1 that consists of one spec-neutral choice, and one other choice per spec. The second tier consists of generally two generic choices, and the third tier consists of an item level buff that is probably a placeholder. However, that first tier should be enough to tell us all we need to know. We have a system that offers a choice between one generic choice and one spec specific choice on a spec by spec basis. A modicum of logic tells you that if the spec-specific choices are not stronger than the generic choice, there is never a reason to not pick the generic choice, which leaves the armor useful for any spec. Thus; you don't get to make a choice about the talents; you make a choice about your spec. That's it. Azerite items are spec-specific gear; no more and no less. You can respec them at an increasing cost, meaning that people who want to play different roles on the same character get taxed. Welcome back to those hundred-page threads from WoD beta, where we succesfully beat a ridiculous cost to respeccing at the time. This is that, only with better window dressing. How in the !@#$ is anyone happy with this system? Does everyone really think it is going to be expanded in scope so far that you get multiple choices per spec per row on any given piece of gear? Until such a time that Azerite armor offers multiple functional choices for _EACH SPEC_ on a given row, it offers literally no choice at all. There is a right choice for your current spec, and there are a couple of literally non-functional choices for that spec, and there is a choice that is effectively to grind world content and get healed for free. That's it. This is not the system it was sold to be. It is not going to become the system it was sold to be. There is no way it is expanding from what it is now, to what it needs to be to be an interactive, fun system.Delekii69 6h
6h How to fix MM AiS Make it a 3s channeled ability that doesn't "fire" until you finish channeling, but that can be triggered prior to the 3s by hitting the button again for a linear reduction in damage. Bonus for 'pulling back the bowstring all the way' so to speak, but still functional if you're about to have a warrior bite your face off. YW.Lekai29 6h
6h Class Design IS Being Slowed Down! First of all I just want to make myself clear. I am not trying to call any on person out or trying to be negative at all. These are just simply my thoughts. I've seen some dev interviews and read a lot of posts saying that the devs are not trying to slow game play down. They might not be trying to but they are. Hands down. Here we go. The GCD changes: It's simple. Having to press any ability such as a dps CD that has a GCD decreases the abilities that you press by 1 for each CD pressed. It's simple math. It may seem trivial but overall it technically does slow down game play. Classes: Prior to Legion we had 2 or 3 classes that had gaps in their rotations. DK's, Shamans (Enhancement) and Monks (barely). DK's had and have their runes. Enhancement's abilties and rotation were just set up to have gaps and this felt unique to the spec. Same thing with WW and BM. Now we have Hunters that have gaps in their rotations aside from MM but it's painfully slow on the beta right now because of the Aimed Shot cast time. DK's and Hunters had their base GCD increased from 1 second to 1.5 seconds in Legion. Again this does technically slow down the rotation and decreases the amount of abilities pressed leading to an overall slower play style. It's math people, it speaks for itself. The Pruning: Yes, this has a big part to play too! Think about it... Less abilities that you have decreases the amount of thinking and decisions that you make while playing any given class. Having more abilities increases your thought process because there are more decisions that you get to make in any given situation. It literally speeds up your thinking process!Faraya16 6h
6h The concept of pruning. The concept of pruning a plant is so that it can grow once again. We were told the same about pruning classes. Take away the bloat through the only lightly used and unused abilities, so that the class can grow again. However, Blizzard has pruned for three expansions now and not given us growth. No, artifact traits and azerite powers are not class growth. They are temporary and meant only for a single expansions worth of content. I want new abilities and new talents that will STAY on my bars. The concept of pruning to give azerite and artifact powers is simple in the grand scheme of things. Give them these "Abilities" that we then take away at a new expac launch. Then they will have to grind and level throughout the new content to gain replacements, which we will in turn take away again at the end so that we can continue to give and then prune so that it never stops, but the classes also don't get any firm new abilities. Please Blizzard, this "runaround" is not what we want. We don't want to have our things removed just so that we have to earn them back each and every expac.Celtika22 6h
7h Subtlety Rogue Feedback Hi. Wanted to start up a thread for Subtlety Rogues on the new Beta forums. Please feel free to post your own feedback. Energy Starvation Although Shadow's Whisper was made baseline, we are currently still missing Energetic Stabbing with no compensation. Without it I feel very starved unless I pick Vigor and Master of Shadows. Please reintroduce Energetic Stabbing, reduce the Energy cost of the abilities or otherwise compensate for it. Symbols of Death on Global This feedback is something a lot of players are giving for various specs, but it ls very clunky to play with this. Using it mid-Dance feels absolutely horrible and reminds me of the pre-7.2.5 version of Symbols as it's a button that essentially does nothing that you apply while you have much more exciting things to be doing. The choice then becomes to use it before you Dance, but then the Energy regen portion of it becomes quite a bit less appealing unless you've been tapping yourself on Energy by spamming Backstabs. In PvP it's even worse as Subtlety burst is normally started with a Kidney Shot followed by a Shadow Dance, so unless you want to have a gaping hole in your setup you want to use it before you even Kidney, at which point you're getting the benefit at best 2 seconds into the buff, sometimes 3 or even 4 if you're also Cheap Shotting. From my perspective, the button does too little and is pressed too often for it to be on the GCD. The damage buff is fairly insignificant, the Energy regen feels largely unimportant outside of Dance and it has no impact whatsoever on how your character plays. Personally, I'd love if you scrapped this whole GCD idea, but if you're sticking with it, I think I'd rather not have Symbols at all than how it is on Beta currently. It's not a particularly interesting button anyway, and at least then it doesn't make the spec feel clunky to play. Dark Shadow I'm really excited you've decided to bring back Find Weakness, it's a fantastic mechanic, but I wish it was instead of Dark Shadow rather than on top of it. I liked Find Weakness in the past because it made the spec feel so open-ended. Mostly from a PvP perspective, it was very cool that if I managed to find my way into Stealth, either by leaving combat or using Vanish, I was able to put out significant damage. This encouraged a hit and run playstyle where you were looking to run away and re-enter Stealth rather than stay and fight like, say, a Warrior, and I feel it suited the spec very well. Dark Shadow is different from Find Weakness in that it only works with Shadow Dance, whereas Find Weakness also works with Stealth. The problem with that is that it makes Stealth feel insignificant from a damage perspective, since the only way you're able to pump out a lot of damage is if you press Shadow Dance. This on top of Deepening Shadows reducing the cooldown on Shadow Dance if you keep fighting means you're not actually that eager to pull back. On top of that, it also makes Vanish into an insignificant damage cooldown. In PvP in Legion, this is already the case, whereas in PvE it is made relevant by the Mantle of the Master Assassin which is going away in Battle for Azeroth. But why does it matter if we have both, you ask? Well, if Dark Shadow exists, we have to be balanced around it. If a Subtlety Rogue is able to do significant burst with just Find Weakness, then they'll do way too much with Shadow Dance as you then add Dark Shadow on top of it as well. The result here is that you don't really care all that much about Stealth as a Subtlety Rogue. The prospect of being able to press Cheap Shot and Sap is not particularly enticing as you have easy access to them with Shadow Dance anyway, and from a damage perspective it really doesn't matter all that much. Compare this to Assassination, which is very excited to enter Stealth as it gives them access to Sap, Cheap Shot and Garrote Silence, abilities they otherwise struggle to access, as well as Master Assassin if they talent into that. Isn't Subtlety supposed to be the Stealth focused spec? Frequency of Access to Stealth abilities To expand on the previous point, I'm concerned that Find Weakness will be too easy to access and have too much uptime. Shadow Dance has such a short cooldown in Legion & BfA compared to previous expansions, roughly 30 seconds, and on top of that you can access Find Weakness from Stealth as well. It also lasts a full 10 seconds after your last Shadowstrike, whereas Dark Shadow only lasts until the Shadow Dance ends. I think we may end up having a similar problem to early Legion Subtlety, where you're bursting all the time, and when you're bursting all the time your burst becomes your sustained and does damage as such. Perhaps a good idea would be to look into making Shadow Dances less common, like they used to be? That's all for me, thanks for reading.Sfddf93 7h
7h Less Self Healing Tanks, and more mitigation. I've been doing a lot of heroics as a healer, whether it be on my druid, shaman or paladin, and one thing I've noticed is that the tanks that do a lot of self healing, do kind of too much. Now to be completely fair, I've never had any interest in DH's or DK's but I just came from 3 heroics 2 with DH tanks and 1 with a DK tank and they're healing for basically as much as I do, and in some cases more. I hit about 11k Hps pretty regularly on my druid when its required. The last DH tank I had in my group was healing himself for 10-12kHPS.... like what the hell? Not only is it frustrating that a tank can heal more than an actual dedicated healer, but because the self healing is designed to make up for a lack in mitigation that other tanks have, it's very frustrating to heal. They take an absurd amount of damage and you never really know if you're screwed or if they're going to full heal themselves in 2 seconds. So you end up spamming heals into them to try to compensate only to waste mana, and neglect the rest of the party half the time because they didn't actually need it. DK's are less obnoxious but still doing around 8khps.Nuanah9 7h
7h Blood DK Feedback - Dancing Rune Weapon. Dancing Rune Weapon does not feel like it does a job representative of the quality of the spell in BFA after the loss of the Artifact from Legion. In order to explain why, I'll detail some history. Through MoP, it was a 1.5m CD with a 12 second duration and gave 20 percent parry. It was like this for many years, and DK wasn't what it is today but its important to remember where we started with this ability. At the time, DK had many different diseases and effects, so Rune Weapon was able to dramatically increase our abilities for the opening few seconds. During WoD's facelift, was nerfed to an 8 second duration, 1.5m CD, 20 percent parry. WoD was notable for its rune replenishment model and siphoning the diseases to greatly increase our DPS, so the nerf was justified entirely. Even with this, getting multiple diseases up while having Blood Boil do as much dps as it did left us as one of the top DPS tanks ever conceived. Legion dramatically changed Death Knights so that they are unrecognizable to previous iterations, and Rune Weapon turned into their most potent CD. Upon launch the ability became a 3 minute CD still with an 8 second duration but now with 40 percent parry Likely trying to make up for all the massive reductions Blood lost. Obviously, that was BEFORE the artifact. On Live, I have my Rune Weapon up to a 22 second duration, which is obviously quite absurd and overpowered, but it is a major part of why Mythic+ is a stomping ground for DK and the ability is clearly cemented as the best Tank CD in the game period. In BFA, the ability is now a 2 minute CD with still 8 seconds of duration and 40 percent parry. After Ion has said he would like to hear more specific feedback about the lack of Artifacts, my primary concerns are as follows. The ability was modified massively by Dance of Darkness, but was also modified by a single point trait called Mouth of Hell, which allowed for a THIRD rune weapon. The reason this was so strong and why it is so weak now, is because that third rune weapon allowed for much faster runic power recruitment and much better use within the window. Here are the main points of interest about ability in BFA. 1. It has gone from a potential 22 second duration to an 8 second. 2. It has been halved in its efficacy with both offense and defense considered, and is particularly difficult to use with the low haste we will have early. Consider that you used to cap on Boneshield with one Marrowrend, but now you need 2 at least, and it will waste some stack, effectively rune starving you for half the duration. 3. Its been BUFFED from a 3m cd to a 2 min CD, but we had the ABT tier set reducing it some times by half. So with this in mind, I would propose one of the following. Fix #1: Make Rune Weapon a 12 second CD again. This will allow for a more appropriate burst window, while also allowing us to spend the extra globals on generating Runic Power and Bone Shield Stacks. Fix #2: Make Mouth of Hell available in some way again, preferably passively. Keep it at 8 seconds, thus allowing us to cap on Bone Shield again, but not pump out absurd DPS during it. Fix #3: Tune the 40 percent parry to something more interactive overall, like haste percentage gain. This will solve all problems, and everything can stay the same and will act as balance against the passive defense that no one interacts with. TLDR: Now that the ability is ON THE GLOBAL COOLDOWN, the duration was obliterated with the loss of the Artifact, and Mouth of Hell has been removed, the CD is effectively extremely weakened and should be buffed if you are concerned with things that feel particularly bad after the loss of Legion's Artifact. The 2 minute CD was a nice concession, but essentially only addresses the lose of the latest Tier set, as it would be, on average, around 2 minutes anyway if tanking consistently.Metrohaha22 7h
7h [Feedback] Mage BfA First off I would like to say that testing in the beta has been interesting thus far. I wanted to provide some feedback about our class rotations and such. Keep in mind I will only be speaking on single target rotations. Arcane: It feels like there is way too much setup for arcane especially with most CDs being on the GCD. With using Rune of Power, Charged Up and Time Warp you have to use the CDs in a specific order to feel as though you aren't wasting the GCD. Even with Presence of Mind and Racials off of the GCD thats 4 seconds before you able to cast any sort of damage abilities. I feel Charged Up should be off of the GCD that way its TW > RoP > CDs > Rotation. Other than that the rotation itself seems fine with mana management etc. As a side note, this is the spec I have the least experience with. Just from what I have seen in the beta is what I feel the basic rotation is there but does need some work, maybe another spell to help it feel less bland. Frost: Frost for the most part seems fine but a couple of changes I'd suggest. With the addition of Chain Reaction (Mag's Bracers) Ebonbolt seems to be the odd ball out. While yes in certain cleave situations EB is a good choice it seems underwhelming. I honestly think EB should be base line for Frost and another talent put in its place. Another talent that is underwhelming is Comet Storm. Sadly, this has been an honestly been bad talent since they introduced it into the game in WoD. I'm not sure if it balance issues with the talent but it has always underperformed from a PvE standpoint. Finally, we come to Ray of Frost. I have no idea what you all are trying to do with this talent. It really doesn’t fit the play style for Frost and honestly doesn’t work well with any combination of the talents. Fire: With the addition of the bracers and belt legendarys as talents feels a bit more sound but we need something else here especially with the loss of Phoenix Flames baseline. My proposition here is drop Incanter’s Flow for a new talent that more fits Fire. I really miss the days of scorch weaving to keep up a buff so one of the replacement talents would be scorch adds a debuff to the target that lasts 30 seconds increasing damage by 12% to the target, basically the average buff you get from Incanter’s flow over the course of a fight. This makes I feel makes the rotation flow a little more smoothly and gives us something else to cast besides Fire Ball and Pyroblast. Other thoughts: Mirror Image as a whole needs to be given base line or just chunked entirely. The spec it only really fits is Arcane but is still very underpowered in its current incarnation. While yes it is a temporary aggro dump we have two of other ways to dump aggro so especially as a DPS talent this feels wasted when there are 2 other talents that are significantly stronger in that same talent row. My two cents.Pyrõx11 7h
8h Balance Arcane Torrent for Healers Blood Elf has the strongest racials for healers by far. 1% crit and 3% mana every 1.5 minutes overshadows all the other horde combat racials for healers that can be Blood Elves. Blood Elf: 1% crit, 3% mana every 1.5 mins Orc: Intellect buff for 15s every 2 mins. 20% reduced stuns. Throughput buff is similar to 1% crit. Nothing to compare Arcane Torrent to though. Undead: 1% shadow DR. Charm Fear Sleep break every 2 mins. Weak passive lifedrain. Very weak racials. Touch of the Grave is worse than 1% crit just by itself. Tauren: 2% stronger crits. Mild stam increase. 1% nature DR. AOE stun 2% stronger crits is worse than 1% crit. The other racials are much worse than Arcane Torrent’s free mana. Troll: 15% haste for 10s every 3 minutes. 10% health regen in combat. 20% movement impairing duration reduction Berserking is similar value to 1% crit. 10% health regen is significantly worse than 3% mana every 1.5 minutes. Goblin: Weak single target damage every 2 mins. Rocket jump. KJ showed that Rocket Jump can have niche uses which I think is fine for a racial, similar to how Arcane Torrent’s AOE purge will have niche uses. They have no output increasing racials to compare 1% crit and 3% mana every 1.5 mins to though. Pandaren: Double food buff strength. 2 min melee CC broken by damage. The double food buff has similar value to 1% crit (ignoring that it gets wiped when you die). They have nothing to compare Arcane Torrent to. Nightborne: Weak AOE slow every 3 mins. 1% magic damage buff. 1% arcane DR Almost useless racials for healers. Highmountain Tauren: 1% vers. Passive weak DR. AOE knockdown every 2 mins. The 1% vers is similar in strength to 1% crit. The passive DR is significantly weaker than Blood Elves effectively starting an 8 minute fight with a 16% larger mana bar though. Mag'har Orc: Random secondary stat buff for 15 seconds every 2 mins. Poison, Disease, Curse reduction. Pet Health. The random secondary stat buff is similar in strength to Blood Elves 1% crit. The debuff reduction might have some occasional raiding applications, but it doesn’t compare to how ubiquitously strong Arcane Torrent’s free mana is. Reducing or removing the mana gained by Arcane Torrent would bring Blood Elf racials more in line with the other Horde races for healers. Right now the power difference for healers is so large I feel forced to play a race I don’t enjoy aesthetically on Horde. Thanks for reading.Salorah0 8h
8h WW needs something to deal with fall damage! Our spec is literally called WINDwalker, but yet we have nothing to negate or even reduce fall damage. While rogues get a passive (I think I even saw 2, not sure). Please give us something to address this. Gives us 2-3 second of a buff that negates fall dmg after a fall or give us a passive. My vote goes to the former because then its different enough from the rogues passive.Voebra21 8h
9h Death Knight Spell Visual Feedback This topic is to give my opinions and feedback on animations and spell effects used for our abilities. With the recent build, figured it was time to start up a topic on the subject, and this is likely the best time for this kind of input. This topic was originally on the general discussion forums, but felt that it would be better placed over here. To start off, the Death Knight is a class that lives and dies by the rune blade. As such, they should be primarily utilizing their weapons for necromancy, frost magic, and blood magic. The standard racial cast animations is being used for most of our castable spells, at least for our summoning and omni spells. With the newer animations added in Legion, I think this would be an opportune time to take a second look at DKs visually. Unholy Blight: Currently, the DK will use the CastStrongLeft/Right when this spell is cast. I think that they should primarily cast with CastStrongLeft while still having their weapon held in their right hand. The spell effect for Unholy Blight could also stand to have a touch up visually as well. Wraith Walk: This ability has been something Ive had a problem with since it’s inception. The spell has the character use the Monk2HLIdle animation. The issue with this animation is its intended to be used for longer weapons such as Polearms or Staves. Recently, the animation labeled WASackHold was added and would be absolutely perfect for this ability. Issue is only Orcs, Humans, and KT Humans seem to have access to this pose at the moment, but I see the other races getting this pose at some point. *Something I also want to point out is with Wraith Walk turning into a talent, we lose customization options for this ability, meaning we are unable to use glyph of the Unholy Wraith, Blood Wraith, and Wraith Walker. Please consider allowing glyphs for Talents, or allow the class trainer to change the color of the Death Knight's wraith form. Unholy Frenzy: I like that Death Knights use the old Unholy Presence spell effect, but they also need to have some glow effect during the duration of the spell. Would be cool to get the old classic Unholy Frenzy spell effect back for this. Summon Undead Spells and Omni Cast Spells: I feel death knights need to make use of the PalSpellCast1H animation for more than just blood spec. We should use the power of our rune blades to summon and control our undead minions, rather than casting with our bare hands. The blade is the Death Knight’s power, and it should be conveyed as such for our abilities. *That said, and occasional off cast with our off hand for spells like Mind Freeze and Unholy Blight isnt bad. Our more powerful abilities should make use of our weapon more often though. Army of the Dead: This ability would look imposing if the death knight used the ArtMainLoop animation for the duration of the cast. Remorseless Winter: This should use the PalSpellCast1H animation for the initial cast. Empower Rune Weapon/Hunger Rune Weapon: Nothing to complain about here, I just want to say that I really like the change to this ability visually. Making use of the Artifact Pose with the frost effects and runes around the weapons makes this look really cool. Soul Reaper: With the rework of this ability, we lost the cool soul effect that we gained from the haste buff. The sound of the ability is there and the effect is present when the target with the dot dies, but its visually lackluster. I recommend either having the weapon glow during the duration of the dot, or add a spell visual to show the soul circling our weapon. Death's Advance: The spell effect for this ability just looks boring, and the sound used for it is the standard sprint sound. Only suggestion I have is to have our DK leave decaying foot prints with some fitting sound to go with it. Either that or just give some sort of spectral effect coming off our feet. To summarize, Unholy Death Knights need to cast with their weapons more, Frost Death Knight animation choices are in a pretty good spot aside from that small suggested change, and Blood Death Knights make ample use of their weapon for most of their abilities and more powerful spell casts. Those are my thoughts, hope this was helpful and look forward to any potential future changes.Rulo8 9h
9h Thoughts on Shadow 2: Electric Boogaloo ...Yo! [Developer Note: Further down in this thread there is another more concise post. This first one is very extensive but also written for the community and myself as much as any developers, I've been more concise and pointed in the one further down.] As some of you may know. I am Ellipsis - Ice Bear, HowToPriest theorycrafter, moderator, crumpet eater, and general EU forum busybody. Since with the most recent Alpha (Apparently this is Beta now?!), Blizz has restructured and (hopefully) archived all the previous forum posts. It feels sensible to repost my own thoughts, highlight some areas of discussion that have come up over the past few weeks discussing shadow priest in BFA. Since I'm getting in here early this time I'd like to establish a few post ground rules, because hopefully this thread can also serve to be the "Feedback Megathread" for the shadow spec and community. There's a lot of prominent community members on the US I've wanted to discuss topics with for a while, hopefully with this thread that can happen. 1: Keep feedback constructive. 2: Focus on fun, not numbers. 3: Don't just redesign the spec yourself. Think of concepts that solve problems, and things it'd be cool to have, try to avoid attempting a detailed rework / spell design. 4: People will disagree, but please keep it civil. (Now give me an hour or so to actually write this thing) Ice Bear's shadow thesis statements: The general direction of reducing the impact of Voidform, and Voidform stacks is a good one. However, the rotational strength and complexity that shadow arguably had in legion, largely came from the pace and strength of the Voidform mechanic. Something must, at least in some part, replace this for shadow to remain a fun and engaging spec going forward. Shadow's only form of burst aoe damage is also still heavily gated by voidform with void eruption, despite the form itself being nearly irrelevant damage wise but also half of our intended rotation. It's not fun to have something as core as burst / burst aoe tied to timing and delaying a spell which, unlike other examples where this does occur, is tied to our core rotation and is arguably one of our most important rotational spells. Pacing: I'll split this into two sections, in this section I'll discuss shadow's pacing whilst levelling. Later on I will discuss the pacing in endgame content. Whilst levelling, shadow's pacing is noticeably lower than it is on Live servers, to a jarring degree. This is largely due to the vastly reduced effectiveness of Voidform and abysmal levels of base haste we're capable of scrambling together in levelling gear. It's no secret nor surprise that haste makes casting specs feel more fun to play, it increases the fluidity of a lot rotations and provides more for the player to 'do' when playing. Other specs are of course also affected by this massive reduction in stats going into BFA, the issue with this for shadow is that the rotation was designed in Legion around having large amounts of potential haste which is simply no longer there in BFA. Shadow has a simple rotation with no interactions or 'procs' (Not saying procs are the best way to solve this), it barely even has a baseline cooldown. This was fine in Legion because of the pace Voidform brought. Without any haste, shadow feels like an understatted oldschool fire mage. Slow, monotonous, without interaction, and not much fun. It's not 'all' doom and gloom for levelling though. Void eruptions redesign feels good when it hits large numbers of targets, it also feels good to have fairly hard hitting mind blast regardless of being in void form or not. Eruption's change to not require dots was definitely a step in the right direction, but as it plays such a massive role in how we play in BFA, I'm often finding it either becomes available too late, or I'm sitting on my thumbs waiting for a good time to use it. Again, this would be fine for a none rotational ability, but void eruption is a rotational ability. Being put in a position where you don't want to erupt and waste the damage slows the spec down even more. Continued later in the thread (I didn't reserve space because I am a dummy).Hpellipsis268 9h
10h [Feedback] Survival Hunter. Hi ! Seeing as Survival Hunters are getting (possibly) the biggest rework of all specs this expansion, I thought it would be nice to make a post regrouping all the feedback I found over the past weeks and adding a bit of mine. I will try to update the post as new stuff comes up. Also, to make it easier for me I won't describe every ability I mention in this post, assuming people already know how it all works at the moment. If you need additional information, I redirect you to the Surv Hunter Talent Calculator of Wowhead : TL;DR : A- 2H weapons. B- Fantasy. C- AoE. D- [Wildfire Infusion]. E- [Mongoose Bite]. F- Synergy. G- [Aspect of the Eagle]. H- [Flanking Strike] and [Kill Command]. I- [Steel Trap]. J- [Born To Be Wild]. K- [Birds of Prey]. So let's start light with some more minor things : A- I've seen many people (not just Hunters) asking for Artifact Weapon type restrictions to be reverted for BFA. For instance, letting Surv Hunters (since it's the main subject here) use one-handed weapons. Baseline and Talent, there is about 3 abilities requiring them atm and to be fair, these are more for Artifact reasons than actual lore/fantasy reasons. Considering how confused and all over the place Surv Hunter fantasy is, I think it wouldn't be too much to ask to be able to go Rexxar style with double axe or any other combination of your liking. B- Since we're talking about the fantasy : what's up with Surv exactly ? What are we ? - Let's see, there's BM : B.E.A.S.T-M.A.S.T.E.R, quite simple, really. You send your beasts after the enemy and shot from range. - We have Marksmanship : like BM, quite simple, you're a lone sharp shooter. Either sniper or bow-wielding sentinel or crossbow infantry. It's nice ! You prepare big burst of damage from range. - And then... Surv : Survivalist / Pyroman / Trapper / Beast-Master (but not fully) / Melee (but not really) / Ranged (but not really) / AoE (but awkwardly) / Single Target (but not really) / Magic (kinda)... W-what ? I'm all for melting pots and far reaching concepts, hell, I even like the concept of Melee/Ranged hybrid but as a RPer I'm struggling to find any approach to my character with such a range of different concepts mashed together. I'm supposed to send my faithful companion in the fight and then throw a freaking grenade in the lot, then harpoon myself in and poison people with quivers and hit them with a polearm before jumping back and throwing magic poison-looking birds at them and also I can send crows after them and put down traps and dots and - STOP, just... What's going on with this spec ? What's the theme, what are we supposed to feel like when playing it ? Let's continue on more tangible/major things : C- One thing that struck me right from the start when I hoped in Beta was how awkward AoE situations feel. And even after playing easily 15hours of BFA's Surv and tried every build I could it still feels off to me and it seems I'm not the only one. Now, baseline what do you have as AoE ? [Wildfire Bomb] - 17s CD (affected by haste), dealing damage in a cone from impact. That's it. With talents we have : LVL-30 : [Guerrilla Tactics] OR [Hydra's Bite] OR [Butchery]. All giving you a different AoE option but nothing that fills down times. Once you've used your 2 [Wildfire Bomb] or spread your [Serpent Sting] or spent your rather weak [Butchery] charges you're left with awkward single target Focus dump. And even if you manage to slot in everything in a way that doesn't leave down time before the pack is dead (which is possible, with the right build) it still awfully lacks the oomph of lining up a series of [Carve] or getting the glorious pay off of a 6MB stacks [Fury of the Eagle]. Then talent wise nothing else before : LVL-100 : [Wildfire Infusion] OR [Chakrams]. Now, I enjoy [Chakrams] but it has the same problem as [A Murder of Crows] for instance : you use it, it goes on a 20s CD and you forget about it. And it still doesn't solve our lack of oomph or fills down time. As for [Wildfire Infusion] I'm mixed. I both hate and love that talent, but I think it deserve a point of its own so we'll get back to that. How could we fix this AoE problem ? The simple, obvious, lazy (yet efficient) way to solve this would be to give us [Carve] again, baseline. Or make [Butchery] baseline and maybe replace its talent by a Hellcarver-type of thing that buffs its damage the more targets there are. I know tweaking is still going on so I won't go too long on this but atm it really feels weak. (1/3)Roydal13 10h
13h Outlaw Feedback Alright. We had a thread rolling (heh) in Alpha, time for a beta. - AR on GCD feels counter-intuitive - Alacrity is still a bad talent. I'd rather it just be passive haste instead of a silly stacking maintenance buff. - Loaded Dice is more or less right back to being mandatory for RTB, which feels awful. - Putting Greenskins into azerite instead of as a talent was a bad call - Blade Flurry is okay as a cd but being on GCD feels very counter-intuitive. Overall: Disappointed SND isn't a more viable choice for those of us that (still) hate the RTB core mechanic being forced into the spec.Dunkleosteus96 13h
14h holy paladin mage tower skin will we get to use it in BFA?Cyberdoc4 14h