Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes

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1m Prot Warrior: Ignore Pain is...painful. Another expansion for the warrior to get benched. Ignore pain feels extremely bad. At 40 rage and a GCD, it feels not worth pressing. This is a problem because it is the only thing holding together a Prot Warriors mitigation kit to make them competitive tanks. The rage generation nerf feels bad enough without the constant pain (no pun intended) of sacking a flat 40 rage into a mitigation talent that is mediocre at mitigating damage, and also reduces damage output time, in turn killing threat. There are a few things that could turn this around and make Prot Warriors competitive. Option 1.) Remove ignore pain from GCD ( too easy right?) Okay option 2.) Bake the mitigation portion of the talent into an existing damaging talent. Possibly revenge. Option 3.) Add a taunt or threat generation to the talent. That way, already rage starved Warriors won’t feel as bad when they sacrifice damage / threat generation for the mediocrity of the expensive skill on the GCD. Anyone else share this frustration? I love warriors and wanted so badly to play mine again this expansion, but my hand is being forced away from the unfinished and neglected status of them currently.Ñyxx1 1m
6m BFA Feral Feedback Posted on behalf of Guiltyas from the Dreamgrove discord. Feral Druid feedback- BFA Feral seems to be little changed from the baseline Feral in legion other than in a few areas, It’s little secret that my preference for Feral is oriented more towards the slower bleed focused playstyle of early legion and latter expansions so bear in mind my feedback will be coloured by this. Talent Layout A recent dev watercooler introduced an interesting idea, that talent rows which are choices between AOE and ST aren’t good design. I agree with this, it’s not particularly interesting as it makes talent rows very binary. This is something the current Feral talent tree suffers from (Brutal Slash and Predator as the biggest culprits). Having talked about this with other respected members of dreamgrove we have a proposed idea for a new set up talent tree (Big credit to Xanzara). We assumed blizzard wanted to keep a passive in each row so it’s set up that someone can choose an almost entirely passive set of talents or a set where almost every talent gives an extra ability. Obviously this is just something some people discussed and put together but it would be interesting to see blizzards take on it. It really is something that i think would improve the specs talent options and it would be interesting to see more discussion about this. Underperforming talents Tiger’s Dash and Renewal are the talents here that I think would most be considered underperforming. I can’t think of any fight this expansion where renewal was a good choice and it really doesn’t make sense on the row its on, It is the only healing talent competing on a row of mobility talents. With the changes to Regrowth it isn’t even a comparatively strong healing option, It is approximately twice as strong as an average regrowth on a 90 second cd. This talent existed through legion and stayed underwhelming. I’d like to see this changed or replaced. Tiger’s dash is a new addition for legion replacing displacer beast, it replaces dash. As it is at the moment it appears to be strictly worse than Wild Charge. The ability itself is ok though a little weak but the opportunity cost for taking the talent is enormous as it replaces dash and also means you miss out on Wild Charge. It makes no sense that the talent is on a 45 second cd compared to the 15s cd of Wild Charge while also meaning you no longer have dash as baseline. Feral mobility is a luxury, unlike many classes we have extremely high base move speed, tiger’s dash just doesn’t seem like a good option in a world with Wild Charge. I like the talent but it needs a buff Boring Talents Blood scent might be the most boring talent ever created. For all intents and purposes it is a talent that gives you 10% crit. And that’s it. It’s extremely boring and hopefully it can be changed or replaced. We’ve seen other classes get legendaries baked in as talents, potentially behemoth could fit in blood scent’s place? It remains a passive but makes the talent not criminally boring! Sabertooth is another example of a boring talent, while the talent is semi interesting in cleave scenarios in single target it is a talent that actively removes thought from your rotation. This talent existed throughout the entirety of legion as a new addition and outside of PvP has seen almost no use. It’s not a strong talent and its not an interesting or enjoyable talent. Incarnation, this is entirely my own personal opinion, but incarnation is an extremely boring talent for Ferals. There are a few reasons I think this, to start with I believe that overly focusing throughput into long CD abilities that have a big impact on damage (which incarnation certainly does) makes the rotation outside of the cds far more boring as it becomes less impactful. Incarnation in particular doesn’t make you play differently, it just becomes 30s of spamming.Snuffly732 6m
25m My Shadow Priest has too many buttons Prune harder. I don't have room for Dark Ascension, Mind Sear, Leap of Faith, or PW:Fort on my bar. I mean, I do...but I'm gonna have to move some stuff around here. =/ I feel like there is an opportunity to fuse the effects of Vampiric Embrace, Vampiric Touch, and Shadow Word: Pain into a single ability somehow. Misery is a start, but baseline we could become a single-dot spec, and that dot could provide us with both self-healing and a lesser amount of group healing. Another idea with some potential is merging Shackle Undead and Mind Control into a single ability. Mind Control doesn't currently work on Undead, so maybe using it on an Undead would just Shackle them instead? You'd probably want to rename the fused ability to something else - but I think it makes sense to merge them together. What about Dispel Magic and Purify Disease? It could be a single ability that does one thing when an enemy is targeted and another when a friendly is targeted. Anyway, just wanted to throw some ideas out there, because since when is Shadow Priest one of the more complicated specs in the game?Neptune6 25m
45m [Shadow Priest] Solving the Ramp Hoping to make this post as concise as possible. Shadow Priests have too much ramp. They have the normal DoT ramp that all DoT classes have, but then they also have a secondary ramp, which is building up the Insanity resource to enter Voidform. Why is this a problem? Well, for starters it doesn't play well in any content outside of raids. Furthermore, specs with more DoTs (like Affliction) are actually able to burst faster than Shadow Priests. Exhibit A: To fix this problem, there are 2 Insanity resource generation changes I'd recommend: Out of combat & not in Voidform Like rogues and monks passively regenerate energy, Shadow Priests should passively regenerate about 30 Insanity per second while out of combat and not in Voidform. This would allow Shadow Priests to start almost every combat encounter with a Void Eruption that puts them immediately in Voidform - thus eliminating the double ramp problem that they currently have. Out of combat & in Voidform If a Shadow Priest is in Voidform when combat ends, the Insanity drain rate should increase by 2 or 3 times to quickly help the priest exit Voidform, so that they can start regenerating Insanity again and begin the next encounter with another Void Eruption. In combat & not in Voidform No changes would be made to this state, and it would function as it currently does. Once in combat, Shadow priests would passively regenerate 0 Insanity, and would rely on spells to build their Insanity up. In combat & in Voidform This state would also have no changes made to it. You'll still be fighting the drain by casting spells that generate Insanity. Overall, these changes would allow Shadow Priests to start most combat encounters "Standing Up" instead of "Sitting Down." Further Shadow Priest changes: Once Shadow Priests can typically start most of their encounters from Voidform, it would be nice to see Voidform pack more punch again. It should increase spell damage by 15% (to be more attractive than Shadowform), and it should reduce Physical damage taken by 15% as well (once again, to make it the obvious choice over Shadowform). When your "Uberform" asks you to make trade-offs, that's not a good thing. It basically just makes you crappy compared to all the other classes out there that are not asked to make trade-offs with their abilities. Feelsbadman.Neptune13 45m
47m Very disappointed with Prot W. and Guardian Two tanking specs I enjoy playing that needed a lot of attention going into bfa have received almost none at all. Prot warriors in legion were fairly fun to play when specced for booming voice and devastator, but the spec lacked a lot of it's original fantasy being an impenetrable wall of shield and steel. It really needed a proper overhaul but all you did was remove ignore pain then add it back later in a much much worse state. Guardian druids were fun and effective in legion but they really needed a few more synergies or rotational abilities because the spec is widely considered as one of the most boring in the game. But you literally added nothing for them and instead pruned away a really fun and powerful ability along with their snare and other helpful passives. How you went a full alpha and beta without even trying to make guardian a more fun or engaging spec is shameful. Even doing something as simple as making galactic guardian and pulverize baseline would work wonders for the gameplay of the spec. Not to mention you have access to any number of helpful legendary effects from legion that would help the spec. Also, how the hell can you justify pruning more off this already bare bones spec? Bears have no snares now. Prot warriors in legion were so much more fun to play than on the beta right now. Ignore pain on the global is a crime, who ever thought that was appropriate should resign. The spec had issues in legion but at least with the right talents it was fast paced. Now you are literally rage starved staring at your screen or spamming devastate because you somehow thought it was a good idea to put booming voice on the same row as devastator. Really disappointed in the effort or lack there of put into these two specs. It's like you didn't even try. This is a new expansion? Really?Providence5 47m
1h [Feedback] Mage BfA First off I would like to say that testing in the beta has been interesting thus far. I wanted to provide some feedback about our class rotations and such. Keep in mind I will only be speaking on single target rotations. Arcane: It feels like there is way too much setup for arcane especially with most CDs being on the GCD. With using Rune of Power, Charged Up and Time Warp you have to use the CDs in a specific order to feel as though you aren't wasting the GCD. Even with Presence of Mind and Racials off of the GCD thats 4 seconds before you able to cast any sort of damage abilities. I feel Charged Up should be off of the GCD that way its TW > RoP > CDs > Rotation. Other than that the rotation itself seems fine with mana management etc. As a side note, this is the spec I have the least experience with. Just from what I have seen in the beta is what I feel the basic rotation is there but does need some work, maybe another spell to help it feel less bland. Frost: Frost for the most part seems fine but a couple of changes I'd suggest. With the addition of Chain Reaction (Mag's Bracers) Ebonbolt seems to be the odd ball out. While yes in certain cleave situations EB is a good choice it seems underwhelming. I honestly think EB should be base line for Frost and another talent put in its place. Another talent that is underwhelming is Comet Storm. Sadly, this has been an honestly been bad talent since they introduced it into the game in WoD. I'm not sure if it balance issues with the talent but it has always underperformed from a PvE standpoint. Finally, we come to Ray of Frost. I have no idea what you all are trying to do with this talent. It really doesn’t fit the play style for Frost and honestly doesn’t work well with any combination of the talents. Fire: With the addition of the bracers and belt legendarys as talents feels a bit more sound but we need something else here especially with the loss of Phoenix Flames baseline. My proposition here is drop Incanter’s Flow for a new talent that more fits Fire. I really miss the days of scorch weaving to keep up a buff so one of the replacement talents would be scorch adds a debuff to the target that lasts 30 seconds increasing damage by 12% to the target, basically the average buff you get from Incanter’s flow over the course of a fight. This makes I feel makes the rotation flow a little more smoothly and gives us something else to cast besides Fire Ball and Pyroblast. Other thoughts: Mirror Image as a whole needs to be given base line or just chunked entirely. The spec it only really fits is Arcane but is still very underpowered in its current incarnation. While yes it is a temporary aggro dump we have two of other ways to dump aggro so especially as a DPS talent this feels wasted when there are 2 other talents that are significantly stronger in that same talent row. My two cents.Pyrõx13 1h
1h ####Arcane Torrent##### ###Arcane Torrent #### Please return this back to Legion version. I noticed that the humans got to retain their trait which impacts stun effects, yet blood elves didn't. This was an essential skill and frequented spell used by all blood elves.Onebunglung7 1h
1h BFA Artifact Appearance Mogging Hi there! I'm not someone who frequents the forums, so if I missed any part of forum etiquette, please be gentle and I will correct it. Myself, my guild, and my friends all have a few grievances with the mogging system for our artifact appearances being used on weapons that we'll be replacing them with. Take the hunter for example (this is my own personal opinion): Say whatever you like, but I've mained hunters through thick and thin every single xpac since I began playing in Wrath during Naxx's release. This has always been my go to class to have fun and get the most out of the game's content that I wanted to experience with, so I have quite a personal bond with this class. I'm not really any good at melee and keeping up with the quintessential neurotic boss movements tanks that can't stand still for an appropriate amount of time for (when there's no need to turn the boss or hop around aimlessly) to maximize dps, so I prefer ranged, and in turn, abhor what Blizzard has done with Survival BUT I have 2 other playable specs to choose from, so I digress that point. So this leaves me with BM and MM. Again, my own personal opinion here, but all of the BM appearances were awful. They were underwhelming in terms of what could have potentially been (sorry to whoever the designers were, but they were pretty unsubstantial) and that was upsetting for me. All through Legion, MM has been at the bottom of the totem pole as far as dps output is concerned. I also am a huge fan of having pets, in particular, my favorites are Magria and Ankha, so I was OKAY with having to settle for BM just so I could see these lovely kitties... and have to mog old weapon appearances to for my character to look nice because the artifact appearances were "lacking", for lack of a better term. Having said all of this, I understand MM is in the process of getting a bit of an overhaul (maybe somewhat of an overstatement?), but sadly, it's still at the bottom of the totem pole. Now that leaves me with BM; a spec I love to play because it's FUN and I get to use my kitties! This brings me to the purpose of my post. I completed the balance of power questlines, mage towers, and hidden appearances for my hunter. The BOP appearances are, BY FAR, the most amazing looking ones to date (kudos to whoever designed them!). MY GRIPE is that I can't use this amazing bow I've worked so hard to achieve and put so many hours into getting, while also using my amazing pets that I spent days camping to get. The same goes for druids. While the feral mage tower was beyond easy, the guardian mage tower wasn't... and again, the BOP appearances grind is no easy feat. We've all put so much time and effort into these specs and appearances, for those of us who have succeeded. Why can't we cross transmog our appearances across our personal specs? I completely get gear being bound to a specific class. We have a lot of amazing regalia sets in the game that ONLY a mage can use, or a priest, or a warlock, for example, that no other class of cloth can use. Why can't it be weapon/class specific? For example, the hunter; hunters use bows and can mog guns to be bows and visa versa. Swords, maces, etc work the same way, whether it's a 1H or a 2H. I REALLY hope this is something implemented later down the road or a suggestion that is taken into consideration at the very least. I'm also very sorry for this long post, but I felt that all of this information was inclusive and relevant enough to explain and mention.Trikxty5 1h
2h The state of Marksmanship This thread is intended to address, in a comprehensive manner, the current position of Marksmanship in BfA. Since Blizzard has repeatedly said that tuning passes have not yet been done, I'll be specifically focusing on mechanical issues and features, along with proposals to fix them (derived from several of the very long MM threads here and in the Class Development section), though I will also be noting significant tuning issues as well. I'll be modeling this after some of the higher quality feedback posts made recently for other classes/specs. Core Issues The baseline rotation works reasonably well. However, it has some issues. Aimed Shot's cast time. Many players feel the base cast time is too long, and causes the entire rotation to feel slow. Unbonused Arcane Shot damage. It feels low, and makes steady/arcane filler feel unrewarding. Rapid Fire as a generator. This prevents it from scaling with mastery, making it fall behind as gear improves, and causes very weird playstyles with focus management, especially with talents. Lack of a power-feeling signature shot. Rapid Fire is arguably the closest to that, but it doesn't have the same powerful feel as a true signature shot (Chimera Shot or Windburst, for example). Precise Shots feels weird in AoE situations. Multi-Shot doesn't consume it, meaning you either have to waste the buff, or weave in single-target Arcane Shot casts during AoE. Sustained AoE feels problematic. Aimed does a LOT of damage with Trick Shot, but once you're out of charges, you're basically reduced to spamming low-damage Multi-Shot. Trick Shots requires 3 targets to activate, but the Rapid Fire effect is clearly intended for 2-target cleave. The limited AoE range on Multi-Shot can at times make triggering Trick Shots an issue even in AoE situations. The RNG in the base rotation is extremely low. The only RNG is the number of Precise Shots charges you gain from Aimed Shot, and that's of very limited impact. Talents that add RNG have extremely low proc rates or no rotational changes associated with them. Many talents in general feel very low impact, either because their effects aren't terribly noticeable or because they have extremely low proc rates. We also have AoE talents competing with ST talents. Our primary cooldown, Trueshot, doesn't feel as impactful as other class CDs, and requires a very specific set of conditions in order to use properly (no Aimed Shot charges, enough time and focus to cast Aimed Shot before you get another charge, RF not coming off cooldown before you get off that first AiS cast). The benefit of Haste feels low. It doesn't affect the cooldown time on Aimed Shot or Rapid Fire (a departure compared to most classes), meaning that increased haste simply increases the percentage of our time filling with Steady and unbonused Arcane. This leaves haste as being pretty darn terrible for us. Lone Wolf is currently not worth using due to damage balance and pet utility Moving between targets while soloing can involve a lot of waiting because our passive focus regen is so slow. Detailed Analysis Aimed Shot The cast time on Aimed Shot is easily one of the most commonly complained about elements of MM in BfA. Players often assert that it makes the rotation feel slow, and leaves the hunter vulnerable to necessary movement (and a loss of the entire cast time so far) for significant length of time. Aimed Shot currently represents the longest non-talented hardcast ability in any DPS rotation in BfA. Chaos Bolt has the same base cast time, but is almost always cast with the 30% reduction from Backdraft. The only two talents that provide similar or longer hardcasts (Destruction's Soul Fire, 4.0s cast, and Fire's Pyroclasm, 4.5s cast) involve intentional talent choices and only occur once every 30-45 seconds in normal gameplay. Marksmanship uses AiS an average of once every 12 seconds. This cast time, along with the dominance of AiS casts and AiS-based effects (Precise Shots, Trick Shots) in both our single-target and AoE rotation, is a very commonly cited source of MM feeling "slow" in BfA. A common recommendation is to drop the base cast time to 2.5s and adjust Arcane Shot damage to compensate for the slight increase in filler GCDs per minute.Kaedys951 2h
3h Guardian Druid Feedback Just got the game downloaded since I have crappy internet. Haven't done much testing yet on Guardian Druid but if anyone has feedback/thoughts on the class feel free to post it here, since I went through 4 pages and didn't see a thread for Guardian Druid Feedback. The few things I noticed was Lunar Beam is still lackluster compared to Rend and Tear, Ironfur I got 2 stacks ( almost 3 stacks) but it still felt like the duration was too short and the Frenzied Regeneration feels weird now with longer CD and less heal-output.Caféaulait575 3h
3h SPIRIT WOLF WORST TALENT Yep, Im here to be ignored by the Devs about how bad the Shaman talents are right now. So, the thing is this: Spirit Wolf gives you an increasing 5% buff to speed and damage reduction every 1 sec, stacking 5 times. It takes 5 seconds to give you the full 2'% effect. In other news, Warriors have Defensive Stance, which gives 20% damage reduction but reduces damage dealt by 10%. The thing is that Shaman has a long !@# ramp up on the buff, which means you need to stop whatever you are doing for 5 seconds to have a good damage reduction. Warriors just use 1 GCD to have the same effect and they can still do damage while the Defensive Stance is active. As you can see, there's something totally wrong there. Spirit Wolf os soooo useless it has no place in any scenario. In PvP you can activate it but when it's full 20% buffed, you already took all the damage of any burst. In PvE, it hurst your dps very very badly. So, the talents needs to be buffed: - It could start at 10% and in the next second give another 10% dmg/speed. - It could just give the 20% reduction and last for 5 seconds when you shift out of Ghost Wolf. I dont know, the current talent it's just unusable and pointless.Krenna1 3h
3h Ignore Pain 8.0 is ineffective and not fun I know, another Protection Warrior thread. I just wanted to say that now that I have had personal experience working on higher M+ keys, it really isn't fun to be spamming Ignore Pain as often as you have to for two reasons: 1) Ignore Pains absorption shield is so low it falls off extremely quickly, thus requiring more time spent casting Ignore Pain when you get enough rage. 2) We are losing many many global cooldowns during combat to simply reapplying Ignore Pain, time that is not spent contributing DPS or building threat. It's interesting doing M+ as a fury warrior and watching closely how other tanks perform. The single biggest weakness to the warrior right now is that we lose an enormous amount of time in comparison to other tanks actually contributing DPS because of how frequently it needs to be reapplied. In order to contribute a large amount of DPS we would need to stop using IP and just rely on shield block alone which puts our mitigation at the worst of all tanks. Yes, I know it's not the tanks job to DPS, but if every other single tank can do their normal rotation without having to sacrifice an enormous amount of GCD's just for the sake of a small absorb shield, it really just shows how poorly thought out the current iteration of protection warrior is. As much as I want a self heal to be competitive with other tanks, right now as-is Ignore Pain is the single biggest problem with the class. It really needs to be removed from the global cooldown, or be baked into an attack much like death strike etc is. Right now we spend too much time "roaring" for ignore pain while just standing around doing nothing. Blizz please get us more engaged into the fight like the rest of the tanks are.Scotiabank15 3h
4h Bloodlust on GCD So, the thing is this. Normal Bloodlust is not in the GCD. PvP Shamanism talent Bloodlust is in the GCD. Who understand this? Can you remove the PvP version from the GCD like the normal version pls.Krenna0 4h
5h Changes to Hunter Pets: Karkin the Crab I spent a long time in Cata hunting down this rare pet because of it's unique red, white and black colour scheme. I've continued to use it throughout past expansions because it was unique. I logged on today and saw it's been changed to an awful all aqua colour. Why the change? What other pets have been changed?Killerguppy1 5h
5h 2h Shaman anyone care to try? Hello, So I'm thinking if anyone want to test if 2h enhancement shaman is at all remotely close to dual-wielding I know you can't use Stormstrike and Lava Lash with 2h, but all other abilities works. So I was thinking in terms of talents, something along this line: I would have tried it myself, but I have such a bad gear on my shaman (only have elemental gear), and I don't really know how to play enhancement. And as it is pretty limiting with Weapons in legion you can't really find any way to try it easily (I don't want to level in the beta, don't want to spoil stuff too much). But the testing I did do was that they where kinda-ish close to each other around 900 dps 2h vs 1.2k dps dual-wield (in my gear), which however tells me a little bit. I bought 2h and 2x1h weapons from Ashran PvP vendor to not have a difference in iLVL. However I would want to know if the difference would be more apparent with current iLVL (both at 110, but mostly at 120) So if anyone is willing to hunt for a 2h weapon at the same iLVL as their 2x1hs, would you be willing to try it out and see if it is far behind or "close"Seeings6 5h
6h [Feedback] Elemental Gameplay Mechanics Hello community, It’s time for the Storm Earth & Lava team to voice a few concerns with the state of Elemental Shamans in Battle for Azeroth. For the uninitiated, we are a group of Elemental theorycrafters that launched our resource Storm Earth & Lava in December of 2016. Since then, we’ve provided a hub of guides and articles about the spec in Legion, and will continue to do so into Battle for Azeroth. I write today as the “official voice” of the team. Please note that the goal of this post is not general spec discussion, but to highlight a few focused issues we have with Elemental’s playstyle. We will not comment on the spec’s numbers, and would like to keep discussion directed at playstyle -- however, some of our points require numbers to elucidate our argument. Table of Contents Echo of the Elements - Baseline spell-spell interactions, and movement issues - Area of effect (AoE) pacing - Miscellaneous issues - UPDATE 31/5 - Gistwiki's updated feedback post - For the Europeans, my good friend Bloodmallet has posted this on the EU forums: 6h
7h T21 prot warrior battle cry got removed. The Warrior T21 bonus for protection Warriors 2 piece providing 100% reduced cooldown on shield slam when battle cry is active no longer functions as battle cry was removed. I tried triggering it with Avatar as it's baseline now and I assumed that was the intended replacement, but it doesn't trigger with that either.Stollmar0 7h
7h Amani War Bear Ruined. Upon logging on to my character today, and checking things out...I happened to notice that one of the most rare, iconic, and coveted mounts in WoW now looks like it was reborn in the fashion of disney magic, and also has a soul-patch. It's original look was that for a reason. For example: Grandpa is old, and Grandpa got plastic surgery. Grandpa now looks worse than he ever did. Conclusion: Just because something can be done, doesn't mean that it should. In addition, please tell me your planning on a reversal of the new skin. Let the debate begin!Drachenstein9 7h
7h Holy Paladin: Lack of Interesting Gameplay [TL;DR: The removal of Holy Power and its mechanics going into Legion, plus the removal of our Artifact and other gameplay mechanics going into Battle for Azeroth, has left Holy Paladins with little gameplay, and the gameplay they are left with is slow, simple and thus not as fun as previous expansions.] I love playing a Holy Paladin, it was my main in every expansion since Vanilla, but playing on the Beta i have noticed that Holy Paladins in their current state are not as fun to play. I think i know why. One issue is tuning, Holy Paladins base spells heal for very little currently, but this can be easily fixed once a balance pass is done. Another issue is our talents, currently in Beta we have more "dead" talents than we do on Live. Going into a new expansion with less desirable talents is never fun. But the main reason why i am no longer finding Holy Paladin as fun is this: We have lost so much gameplay and gained very little in return. A common complaint among DPS specs. It's easy to forget that Holy Paladins were reworked going into Legion, we lost Holy Power, spells associated with Holy Power, and thus the gameplay that went with it, plus procs, and some AoE healing capabilities. We lost a lot of gameplay and gained very little gameplay in return. Where other healers Artifacts were a bonus to their gameplay, the Holy Paladin Artifact filled in gaps the Legion reworked created. Now with the Silver Hand being taken away we can see these gaps in gameplay more clearly, with other Beta changes making these gaps feel worse. While other classes return to a similar baseline gameplay they may be use to prior Legion, Holy Paladins are left with a gameplay not seen since Wrath of the Lich King. The combination of the Legion rework, plus the removal of our Artifact, plus other current Beta changes, has left Holy Paladins lacking in interesting gameplay. Holy Power, and the spells/gameplay associated with it, was introduced in Cataclysm, and while there were changes over the years the gameplay stayed mostly the same. That is three expansions of playing a certain way. Legion changed it, but in Battle for Azeroth we really feel it. Take Holy Shock and Infusion of Light for example, our huge dependency on crit has been a problem for some time, but in the past when a Holy Shock didn’t crit we still received a charge of Holy Power. In Legion, thanks to the extra crit on Holy Shock passive and our Artifact, we were able to reach high enough crit that our Holy Shocks were guaranteed to give us Infusion of Light procs. However in this current Beta the crit passive is lower and our Artifact is gone, when a Holy Shock doesn’t crit it feels terrible, we get nothing, it will be much harder to stack crit in order for us to retain that gameplay again. Another example is Light of the Martyr, a situational problematic spell that had a niche role in Legion due to Artifact traits and the legendary cloak Maraad’s Dying Breath. It was a spell that helped fill a gap in gameplay Holy Powers removal created, but in Battle for Azeroth with our Artifact and legendary cloak gone, Light of the Martyr becomes even more problematic and less fun to use. The gameplay mentioned above, combined with Aura of Sacrifice gameplay removal, instant procs such as Second Sunrise removed and Divine Purpose repositioned to a place less desirable in our talent tree, has created a playstyle on the Beta that is slow, simple and thus not as fun to play as previous expansions. Our niche is spot healing while cleave healing via our Beacons, what makes Holy Paladins so fun is our fast cast, big crits, and instant casts spells, on the the Beta currently we are the complete opposite of that. Now please don't misunderstand my complaints, i am referring to gameplay and gameplay only. I am fully aware that Holy Paladins have been lucky to be viable in almost all game content. I am not asking for buffs, nor am i asking for a return to Holy Power. I am also not asking for Holy Paladins to play like other Healers, a developer has stated in the past that Holy Paladins should be simple to play, but simple should not equal boring, and if Holy Power and it's mechanics were our "simple" for many years then our current Beta state is whatever word describes “less than simple”, boring? Absolutely, and that is very concerning.Vyrbur38 7h
8h Thanks Blizzard Thank you for extending the alpha and beta test invitation to me. I don't necessarily agree with everything in BfA, but I also don't 100% agree with beta testers' feedback. There are good and bad changes. One thing that stands out the most for me. I honestly feel bad for whoever has to read through the beta WoW forum everyday where there is only 10% constructive feedback and 90% whining, crying, dramatic, entitled, threats.. etc. posts. It must be painful. Anyway, there's always room for improvement. Good luck.Airese14 8h
9h Tuesday: ALL players intro to BfA classes I honestly think this is gonna be both painful and brilliant to see this unfold. "Welcome to BfA, please buy a 110 boost for a different class, as yours is in tatters" "Where are all my buttons? Is this really Battle for Abilities?" "Look at this beautiful new content and this turd of a class/spec I have to use"Bishopx91 9h
9h Please nerf Deathbolt Rather reroll then be forced to play it.OdineB527D911 9h
10h [PvE] BfA Discipline Priest Feedback (cross post from ) Good morning (or afternoon depending where you are and when you’re reading this). I’m Mend, co-admin and webmaster for Focused Will (a Discipline Priest community, and guide author for the Icy Veins Discipline Guide. The current state of Discipline in Alpha/Beta has been overall close to the same playstyle we have today with some less bells and whistles we had due to the removal of Light’s Wrath. This isn’t really of major concern because I think this is the current state of any spec after losing many of the traits from the artifacts as well as the artifact abilities themselves. However, I think Discipline needs some work in regards to Mastery and several of the talents in order to remain competitive with other healing spec's in Battle for Azeroth. I believe Discipline in Beta right now is about 80% of the way to being in good shape, with some minor tweaks still being needed. As a group, we’ve determined a few specific things that need some attention before BfA goes live (second post).Mendpriest354 10h
10h Weapon model clipping I really don't understand that after 17 years, Blizzard still hasn't fixed the numerous clipping issues in this game, especially for short races and blood elves. It really frustrates me when I get a new 1h transmog that looks super cool, just to find out that half of the weapon hides underground and drags along as a I move around. As such, even though dwarves are my favorite race, my mains are tall races like night elf, simply because I can't stand not seeing my weapons. A quick fix would just be to change the angle that weapons sheath on our side. But apparently, Blizzard doesn't particularly care about this aspect of the game. I don't even think this post is going to change anything, I'm just ranting at this point. I just can't wrap my head around all the pretty new models blizzard is putting into the game, but they can't fix a simple clipping issue. Geez.Modaan27 10h
11h Dalaran Brilliance Hi there, One of my favorite mage tomes was the Tome of Dalaran Brilliance, which changed the spell icon / animation for Arcane Intellect. I went to see if this item was available at the old Dalaran vendor, but I couldn't find it (there's only the toy version that was added in Legion). Are there any plans to re-add this item? Or is it possibly in the game somewhere else that I missed? Thanks!Vikander7 11h
12h Paladin Spell effects and casting animations. Where we at with these? Can Mr and Mrs Blizz give us an update? I get you're busy, but surely you can send one of your lovely CM's in here to share some insight.Vaeliira4 12h
12h Elemental Shaman | Fundamental Issues Lavallama touched on some of these issues in another post. And a special thanks to Raden, a friend of mine that helped write this post. So I know this thread has a lot of constructive criticism in it but I do want to point out that we do like some of the changes. Coming into BFA we do appreciate the changes in our survivability and self preservation as a spec. Allowing us to be viable in high end mythic + content. Flame Shock Duration and Cooldown Issues: * The duration of Flame Shock doesn't compliment the duration of the ascendance buff. * Duration is almost impossible to keep up on 3 targets * Target switching is a pain like in Warlords. * Cant use it anymore as an "on the move" spell. * Makes PvP priority target switching even worse than PVE and the debuff can just be dispelled in PVP with no reproccusion Possible Solutions: * Have a interaction with lava surge LvB casts to have a Path of Flame Mechanic to spread flameshock. * Lower CD by 50%, Duration of Flame shock isn't as bad of an issue. * Have a reprocussion for Flame Shock Dispells in pvp. * Have 2 Stacks of FLame Shock | Maybe even have a simliar interaction to reset the CD of Flameshock like Lava Surge. Maelstrom Generation Issues Issues: * Forcing Cookie Cutter Build to fill the void of mealstrom gap with such talents: Echo of the Elements, Aftershock, Storm Elemental/High Voltage (If high voltage isn't bugged), Primal Elementalist cus (Icefury isn't worth the maelstrom cost of FrostShocks), Storm Keeper (To eliminate AOE build up). * Chain Lightning Generating low maelstrom, having to cast 4-6 times before earthquake can be casted. * Earthquake Costs too much maelstrom, causing 3 target situations to continue using Earthshock instead. Possible Solutions: * Increase Maelstrom generated by Chainlightning to eliminate slow build up for aoe. * Increase Maelstrom generation scaling from elemental overloads thus not overpowering Mastery proc chance. * Reduce cost of Earthquake to 50 so we can cast twice at full maelstrom. Eliminating aoe buildup. Start of Expansion and Late Expansion Scaling * Elemental Scaling has been an issue and a reputation with the class, we would prefer to be adjusted later in the expansion when the gear comes in then to start out weak and unviable in high end content for the first raid tier. Mobility issues Coming from Legion Issues: * Gust of wind Removed leaving us with low combat mobility and a sour taste in our mouths. And nothing in return for the removal of the talent. * We have no spells to use while moving aside from instant cast spells, though they are either gated behind maelstrom costs or long CD's. Outside of RNG with lava surge procs we don't have the "stutter step capabilities" like other casters do. Possible Solutions: * Gust of Wind was a "baseline talent" in which it was so good that we took it in almost every situation. So making it baseline would be preffered. Other casters have at least 2 mobility spells while we are stuck with ghost wolf. * Allow Lightning Bolt to be castable while moving, or give us back Spirit Walkers grace as a baseline ability. We know that numbers adjustments are still to come and we know that elemental still has some bugs to fix but we hope that these points will help or the existence of the said issues are already known.Barokoshama450 12h
12h Arcane Missiles Blurb In Patch Notes This was the main Arcane highlight: "Arcane Missiles can now be launched at any time, with a Clearcasting proc sometimes making them free and fire faster." This implies that using Arcane Missiles "at any time" is useful. People might actually think this is the case with the proc being a bonus or something, and there is nothing in our kit to deter them from this gameplay. Right now Arcane Missiles are ONLY worth casting if there is a clearcasting proc. Otherwise it is a strict DPS loss unless you take a specific azerite trait that pushes Arcane into a degenerate "rotation" of only spamming Arcane Missiles. This applies to both PvE and PvP. It's like saying "Flurry can be cast at any time with Brain Freeze proc sometimes making it instant and apply Winter's Reach" OK? Not ever casting Flurry without Brain Freeze. If the intent is to make Arcane Missiles useful outside of Clearcasting, which is the desirable outcome, the current tuning of Arcane's mana cost/damage ratios does not deliver.Mythlos12 12h
12h Essences useless if you have your leggos. Not that it's much of a big deal now with only a few weeks left until BfA, but why remove the ability to purchase random alt legendaries? Giving people 1000 essences in their weekly chest is great but utterly useless if you have all your legendaries now.Tempestwinds4 12h
13h Arms "Second Wind" talent is useless Speaking from a PvP perspective, Arms Warriors need something to help them sustain themselves during combat. A perfect solution to this problem would be a long-needed change to our talent "Second Wind" that has no real use for -anyone-, -anywhere-, doing -any type of content- in it's current form. My suggestions on how it can be changed: 1) "Mortal Strike heals you for 12% of its damage" -- literally our artifact trait that made Arms bearable to play for most of Legion in solo / world / pvp content. 2) "Every 30 Rage you spend restores 1% of your health" -- Legendary bracers. The spec is a lot more playable in solo with them. 3) "Your Deep Wounds heal you for 35% of the damage they deal". -- not seen before but it feels like it should be an option because it fits so well into the warrior's theme of just outfighting and outbleeding the opponents. All those options would help out Arms Warrior complete lack of healing, and will make the spec infinitely more playable in solo / PvP. Edit: Adjusted the numbers.Lina49 13h
13h A Little Bit Sad.. For those of you this morning stretching those nethershards to the last pull at mage tower..i salute you,...(Damn you Kruul!!).... checking some of your achievemnets and seeing a few without a challenging skin sucks...i didnt get Brewmaster but i went 11/12 in the mage towers for the skins i wanted. Next time we shouldn't wait til the last minute.Ironsong5 13h
13h No King Rules Forever Nice joke, Ian. Really gave us some hope that we would be able to play Destro or Demo. J/K here is 5 builds in a row of nothing but Destro and Demo nerfs and now Aff is right back at the top of Warlock specs. This is insane how bad the class design/tuning has been.App13 13h
14h Affliction Warlock Feedback Now that we have switched over from Alpha to Beta, with new forums, it is time for fresh feedback threads. I am first going to go over the changes to Affliction so far, followed by talents and will offer a little feedback mixed in on things I feel should be worked on or changed. This post is not going to be about numbers or tuning, but more about how Affliction feels mechanically. I may discuss numbers briefly but it is not meant to imply any tuning changes. What has changed? Some active abilities and talents have been removed/replaced in the Affliction kit. Removed: Drain Soul Life Tap (Empowered Life Tap with it) Howl of Terror Summon Infernal Summon Doomguard (Grimoire of Supremacy along with these) Grimoire of Service (Imp, Voidwalker, Felhunter, Succubus utility) Reap Souls (Some specs kept their artifact abilities, this would have been useless) Added: Deathbolt (talent) Shadow Bolt Drain Life Shadowfury Overall, we are losing more active abilities than we are gaining, as is the case for many specs in the game. With these changes comes a big loss of utility for Affliction - no more Infernal stun, Cripple, optional Howl of Terror, or bonus Spell Lock, Seduce, Imp cleanse, or clutch Voidwalker taunt from Grimoire of Service. We got Shadowfury, which has a cast time and arguably does not feel like a good enough replacement for all of that. Also, along with most classes, all of the artifact passives for Affliction are gone. This includes things like Soul Flame, Sweet Souls, Wrath of Consumption, etc. We have gained Azerite Armor passives, but many of those have yet to be unveiled. Shadow Bolt/Drain Life vs. Drain Soul This is one of the big debates about Affliction so far. Drain Soul was removed and replaced by both Shadow Bolt and Drain Life. Shadow Bolt functions as the primary damage filler, while Drain Life serves as a high healing, but low damage channel. Drain Soul was one of the strongest fillers in the game in Legion. With all the artifact passives and damage modifiers it gave along with stackable Unstable Affliction, it did an insane amount of damage and healing. It does not particularly come as a surprise to me that Blizzard wanted to tone down the strength of Affliction, but I will say this: Shadow Bolt feels very empty. I liked having it in the past and I was sad to see it go when it did, but without having Nightfall selected (I will discuss this more in the talents section) it is very uninspired and does not feel good when combined with having to stack UA, in my humble opinion. Talents discussion below.Xoja1189 14h
17h Can get the mage tower skins in a vendor ? Wondering if we could get a vendor for the mage tower skins for gold?? i would love to have all the skins but i wont have the time to complete all the 35 challenges, i am sure many players are in the same boat, blizzard you put a lot of work in designing the transmog skins for the artifact to just be removed from the game please!Ojoverde21 17h
17h Protection Paladin Feedback Here is some feedback on the Protection Paladin going into BFA based on my time tanking Mythic raids in Legion and playing the BFA Alpha/Beta. My post is focused on the problems of Paladin tanks. Feel free to post your thoughts too. Light of the Protector and the GCD Why are reactive healing abilities on the GCD? It kills any min/maxing of the rotation and heal. It forces a trade of SOTR CDR from Judgment or Consecration uptime to heal myself. With the changes to SOTR and the loss of the Consecration duration artifact trait, this is a much bigger loss in BFA. And with how little margin for error a Paladin tank has in general, the difference between being able to reactively heal and not is a matter of life and death. Light of the Protector Scaling It does really well on the pre-mades in 185 gear but in the 120 scaled Islands or the 120 scaled raid testing Light of the Protector doesn't scale as well. Based on raid testing, Light of the Protector heals for no more than 20% of my health for non-critical heals. I would look at how it scales relative to player health so it keeps up and stays as an important part of the Paladin tank kit. Avenging Wrath on the GCD Avenging Wrath can be used as a survival cooldown or it can be used as a DPS cooldown. With it being on the GCD, we lose a lot of flexibility to decide when we can use it. We have to trade SOTR CDR from Judgment or Consecration uptime for it. Just think about the actual pull of a boss or a trash pack. I Avenging Wrath and maybe Seraphim on the pull, then I can start drop Consecration, or Judge? That's 1-3 seconds of deadtime where we trade all of our survivability for cooldowns and frankly more vulnerable to death. I could SOTR then run in on the pull but using SOTR outside of Consecration is poor play. And I'll go back to some of the same reasoning as the Light of the Protector GCD issue. The difference between Paladins and another tank is that the moment to moment decisions matter on a Paladin because the margin for error is so much smaller. Talent Tier Level 75 This is the number #1 problem tier headed into BFA. Hand of the Protector is generally seen as the “default” choice of this talent tier. The shorter cooldown our self heal is going to be a god send for any content. And frankly, the other two talents aren’t up to its level in any type of fashion. Final Stand is bad and should not exist. The situations in Legion where it was useful are countable on one hand. And Unbreakable Spirit is a nice add but it’s only going to be taken for the AD CDR, if at all. The value of the Lay on Hands or Divine Shield portions are non-existent. Finally, if you look at pick rates in logs, its picked by 85% of players on all Mythic Antorus Raid encounters, 89% of all Mythic Tomb of Sargeras encounters and 87% of all Mythic Nighthold encounters. This tier is basically a non-choice in current state. Talent Tier Level 90 This is the number #2 problem talent tier headed into BFA. All three choices, if you can call them that, are sad and don’t feel meaningful. The only thing that feels meaningful is the snare on Consecrated Ground. Otherwise, Judgment of Light and Aegis of Light never really feel like meaningful choices. Judgment is usually default because it’s just free passive healing. But the healing is ultimately not significant when compared to similar mechanics. And Aegis of Light has a number of usability issues in group content. For example, it limits the use of abilities for 6 seconds and it places teammates directly behind the tank which is a poor place to group in many cases. This talent tier can be summarized as the following: ‘Do I need to kite/snare mobs? If not, take Judgment of Light.’ It’s not fun, meaningful or interesting. Consecrated Hammer This talent should not exist. With good play, you’ll get far more significant value from Holy Shield or Blessed Hammer. It’s not a valid talent option for any type of serious play. Retribution Aura This talent should not exist. Its <1% damage total and not worth losing the double horse or Spell Warding. And this is even truer in a world where Divine Steed and magic DR are both nerfed.Reese178 17h
18h Innervate on GCD makes no sense and why Why it makes no sense why Resto Druid Innervate is on GCD, 2 main reasons. A. It lasts 12 seconds and can be casted on others, so if you cast on yourself you get a little over 10 seconds of casting with buff (due to GCD), BUT if you put on someone else they can get 12 full seconds of casting with buff. So 2 restro druids to maximize will want to plan invervates on each other so during fight healers are healing for 24 seconds of mana free casts, oppose to if they self cast ~20 seconds. I know its small but the fact they it makes sense to be complicated like this is reason enough why the GCD added to innervate is not intellgent. B. When now to cast? before typically when you know you want healing to go out you cast innervate, typically with a wild growth and follow up by spamming rejuvs or other heals as much as possible during window. SO now if big damage is going out, you have to spend a GCD to cast,WAIT RAID HEALS COMING AFTER THIS INNERVATE GCD, I HAVE TO CAST. so not* real ideal as someone could die cause your waiting a GCD cause reasons... So casting it during high dmg is going to be riskier. So when to cast? during not so risky moments? so then your casts during innervate doing a lot of overheal? So the mana free casts you spending are mostly worthless cause of overheal? What a helpful cd... I can understand GCD added to buffs that are only on self and increase damage/healing, but it makes no sense at all why innervate should be on GCD. Revert to 10 sec buff that is OFF GCD, why it was even considered to be on GCD makes no sense to me, please convince us that someone in control of these changes is thinking about game. Changes are always scary and exciting about expansion, but when there is really unintelligent, idiotic changes like innervate on GCD it really drains excitement for expansion, hire designers that at least kind of think about everything, not just disc priests or whatever the flavor of the patch going to be, thanks.Holycowbell11 18h
18h Class Pruning First off, I'd like to say that I love World of Warcraft, and unless something truly terrible happened to it, I wouldn't dream of quitting the game. That said, I do have some serious concerns for what classes are looking like for the new expansion. Class pruning has been a major issue since Warlords of Draenor, in my opinion. Before that, with every expansion, classes seemed to gain new and interesting abilities. Even if some abilities were removed entirely, there were still new aspects of the class to enjoy. In WoD, there weren't really any new abilities added to the game other than a level 100 talent choice, (by the way, there isn't a 120 choice either, making it over 20 levels since characters will gain a new ability), and a couple of passive abilities to make leveling up go a little smoother. Monks and Druids lost defensive abilities, Death Knights, Warriors, and Hunters lost abilities that used to be a major part of their rotation, and so on. But then we get to Legion. Players were told by Blizzard that Legion would strive to make the "class fantasy" as real as ever. We were told that the different specializations of each class would feel more diverse, and the players overall would have a style of gameplay that was unique to their own class. They definitely achieved this goal in terms of RP purposes. There were many class-specific quests that made the player feel like they were aiding their cause, and the introduction of Order Halls added to the experience. However, if the gameplay itself doesn't reflect what the quests and order halls are trying to achieve, the whole "Class Diversity" agenda of Blizzard doesn't really work. Legion completely tore down most of the classes, and instead of making the classes feel different from each other, they all started to feel the same. Feral Druids are rogues with healing. Paladins, Death Knights, and Warriors, all have the same set of 5 attack abilities, with different names for them. Shadow Priests are essentially Affliction Warlocks. All tank specializations have 2 or 3 weak attack abilities, and a couple of defense abilities that are made to spend resources like Rage, Fury, and Energy. While the specializations of one class don't feel the same, the classes overall do. It seems to me that Blizzard has realized this, and that they're trying to add a couple of abilities back into the game. Quite a few class buffs have returned, and abilities like Hibernate, and Remove Curse have made a comeback. It's just simply not enough. Mists of Pandaria was only 4 years ago, and back then, each class had anywhere from 5-7 pages of abilities and passives that went along with their class, and while the each specialization shared a lot of abilities, (All druid specs had Cyclone, all shaman specs had Flame Shock, All Warrior specs had Heroic Strike, etc.), each class still had a completely different feel. Now, in Legion, each class has 2-3 pages of abilities, and in Battle For Azeroth, that number hasn't really changed much. In Legion, I heard several complaints that there weren't even enough abilities to fill in each class's bar, and I find it funny that even after Blizzard reworked and changed the UI in BFA, they didn't even change the amount of buttons there are. My point is, classes just feel empty right now. Give me Mangle and Shred on my feral, and let me do the hard work to calculate which one to use, don't just do it for me. Give me Death Coil back as a Blood DK, give me Heroic strike as a Prot Warrior. Give me Earth and Flame Shocks as a Shaman, and Deep Freeze as a Frost Mage. Don't focus on the specializations if it's just going to hurt the overall class design. It's incredibly annoying that no class has anything specific to offer anymore. The mindset of "bring the player, not the class" needs to be toned down a bit. Make every class useful, just for different things. I'm not trying to trash talk on here. I wanted to be as respectful as possible, because I truly do love the game, and Blizzard typically does a good job of satisfying their audience. However, I do think they've gone about this topic the wrong way. Classes need to have shared abilities, and I don't abilities like Portals for Mages. I mean stuff that actually contributes to combat. I would actually argue that classes need to have MORE shared abilities, than specialization-specific ones. Warlocks need to feel like Warlocks, not just the "Caster Class". Tank Warriors need to feel like Tank Warriors, not just the "Tank Class". If you've read this far, thanks for at least reading and considering my opinion. If you agree, please let me know, and if you don't, please bring up some good examples, so that we can at least get somewhere as a community. AlganothAlganoth16 18h
18h Druid yell when shifting gone now? Yes, this is low on the totem pole, but I'm wondering if this little change was recently removed, or is possibly a bug now. For a couple weeks there was a neat emote where your toon would yell or roar when shifting into bear/cat from caster. It was a different yell from your character's voice emote list, so I'm guessing they were newly recorded for each of the races. I really liked that, and felt it gave a cooler effect when morphing into forms, IMO. Hoping that's something you all put back in.Purrgatory4 18h
19h Frost Mage Frozen Touch Talent Shouldn't this be built into the specialization and not a talent? When is Chain Reaction and Ebonbolt going to be superior to this?Ultimècia2 19h
19h Holy Priest feedback I didn't see a thread for Holy Priests, so thought I'd create one and all feedback could be consolidated here. My own thoughts: - Loss of Light of T'uure just adds more to the feeling that Holy Priests are stuck being the immobile healer. Instant PoM would somewhat alleviate that, as would stronger Renew. Our speed boost talents should be upped to 60%. - Little to nothing has been done to help Holy Priests with survivability in Mythic+. This will still be a very obvious shortfall of the Holy Priest, and we can already predict that they again will be second-class citizens when it comes to high levels of Mythic+. Ability of Disc Priests to spam shields on entire party will probably break the meta at the high end. - Holy Nova now feels useless once again. Does tiny damage, heals even tinier damage. Holy Nova was once in this form, and it was changed because it was universally panned for being a joke, don't the developers remember this? The main consequence of this change has been to nerf Holy Priest questing. - Divine Hymn was supported by many traits in the Artifact that are now gone. Divine Hymn feels especially weak in 5-mans, because the whole "heals for 10% more" aspect goes mostly wasted when you're the only one tossing out heals and you're also stuck channeling that actual spell. I suggest that its effectiveness be increased by 110%, rather than 100%, when used in dungeons. Could also build in the PoM bouncing from the Artifact as well. - Adding channeling to Symbol of Hope just adds more to the feeling that Holy Priests are not allowed to move and be useful at the same time, unlike most other healers. Suggest either it be instant cast or allow moving while channeling. - Appreciate the slightly lower cooldown on Guardian Spirit from 4 down to 3 minutes. It's still much longer than the external cooldowns of Resto Druids, Holy Pallies, and Mistweaver Monks. It should honestly function with the talent Guardian Angel built in, which is already forced to unsuccessfully compete against Light of the Naaru. - Cosmic Ripple generally cannot compete against Holy Word Salvation and Apotheosis because it is uncontrolled healing that is also fairly weak. Sure, it's free healing, but free healing in this form is not worth a level 100 Talent point. - Circle of Healing deserves a second look after its sad spot in Legion. Cooldown should be reduced, mana cost should be reduced, and/or healing should be increased. It does not come close to the other talents in its row right now. Remember when it used to be the Holy Priest equivalent to Resto Druid's Wild Growth? Guess which one stayed baseline and the core of AE healing, while the other was both made a talent and neutered beyond usability. - It's time to talk about Heal. Right now, its only role is as the button you hit in LFR when all the healers are out of gas, 1/2 of the raid is dead, and you're just running on fumes until the Enrage Timer takes you to your sweet oblivion. Something should be done about it, but not in a way that it always competes with Flash Heal. Maybe for every Flash Heal you cast, the cast time of Heal is lowered by 5% and the crit is increased by 5%? Just a random idea basically stolen from the Resto Druid talent Abundance, I'm sure others will have better suggestions.Shortchanged497 19h
20h Brewmasters & Quality of Life A little about me first: I've mained prot warrior, brewmaster monk, and BDK over the course of this expansion, and completed every tier on mythic while it was relevant. I'm not top tier by any means, but I have spent a lot of time playing with these and as someone who almost exclusively tanks these days, I feel like I have some insight into how the tanks compare. My DK is in my profile, and my monk is "Xyrmfu" on the same server. I love my monk. It is my favorite character thematically, mechanically (for raids), and I love the aesthetic. But going into BFA I'm struggling to justify playing it because of how weak it is in 5 mans (M+ is something I find enjoyable and plan to get into more in BFA) and how bad it feels while doing world/quest content, which is a large part of the game to simply "suffer through" for the sake of its strength in raids. I'm a 2 night a week casual and I won't just play a class because it's the best. The Problem IMO, there is a large discrepancy with how playing a brewmaster feels while questing and doing world content compared to any other tank (and to a lesser extent, 5 man content). I'm going to attempt to make the argument that this both feels bad from a gameplay perspective and is discouraging new players from trying the class, and how the problem may be exacerbated in BFA by losing some key points of QOL going into BFA from Legion. I leveled a brewmaster to 120 recently on horde side for Beta and it was a miserable experience. The only thing that even made me able to do all the soloable quest content was the fact that I ran with a boomkin who could spot heal me occasionally. I've played every tank on beta except bear some amount, and monk felt the worst by a large margin, even worse than warrior, which is admittedly unfinished by blizzard. Three mobs could almost kill me at times, where most DPS I played could handle that easily. Even in dungeons, Monk often felt the worst. I believe there's a few reasons for this, so I'll try to outline them in the most organized and clear manner I can, and welcome feedback! Sustain Brewmasters suffer from a severe lack of sustain. Unlike the mitigation tanks (warrior/druid), they don't STOP any damage automatically, they simply delay it, and you can't remove any without purifying brew. Stagger, by design, isn't very effective against consistent incoming damage that you experience while questing and doing 5 mans. This is fine in raids as you have a team of healers (typically where at least one is 100% dedicated to watch tanks) to watch you, but when solo or in 5 mans, you have yourself, and sometimes a healer who's attention is rightfully split. This means while questing, you actually often have to stop to drink/heal/recover MORE than even DPS, which is something no other tank typically has to do (maybe warrior in the current iteration but they are unfinished). Now I'm sensitive as to WHY they don't have the sustain of a DK, pally, or DH tank. That would be grossly overpowered with how well they smooth out damage. That's completely and totally understandable. However, I feel like their sustain is far too low. While the mechanism in which they generate self healing is great for raids, it falls short (to put it mildly) while solo and doing 5 mans. With the tank redesign in Legion, all tanks had additional reliance on healers (although BDK eventually broke out of this as the expansion progressed), and weren't meant to be able to keep themselves alive in raids of their own accord. I feel like there's a lot of room for improvement in both the potency and consistency of self healing while solo without making them overpowered for raids. The first tier of talents for brewmaster represent healing that is so weak and inadequate for sustain that most of us simply pick "Eye of the Tiger" and forget that tier exists. Chi Burst or Chi Wave still heal virtually nothing and simply don't warrant the GCD they cost. Offensive Cooldowns Of which to say, BFA monks have none. And that's fine. Not every tank needs to be the same, or have the same tools. But coupled with the fact that we have the worst sustain, AND no answer to then burst things down faster, means we are even further in the proverbial "hole" when it comes to killing a powerful rare or pulling a large pack of monsters. These template characters were instrumental in highlighting this fact to me, because I doubt I would have noticed if I had copied my live monk over and just mongo'd my way through the content. I'd argue as far as the tanks go by design, monks need a DPS cd MORE than other tanks, simply because they will never sustain like a BDK. (Continued in next post)Xyrmortus444 20h
20h Druid Artifact Transmog In BFA After looking over how the artifact transmog system works for druid specs such as feral and guardian (artifact appearance that alter the druid form), it has occurred to me that there isnt a way to be able to transmog the form appearance of the artifact while transmoging the weapon itself. This does not feel good because at least in legion we were able to transmog the artifact and still keep the form appearance. It would be annoying to have to use a off color weapon from your mog in order to use the form that you think is cool. Thoughts and feedback welcome :-)Lèafy11 20h
20h [Feedback] Shadow Priest Rotation and Talents ...Yo! [Developer Note: Further down in this thread there is another more concise post. This first one is very extensive but also written for the community and myself as much as any developers, I've been more concise and pointed in the one further down.] As some of you may know. I am Ellipsis - Ice Bear, HowToPriest theorycrafter, moderator, crumpet eater, and general EU forum busybody. Since with the most recent Alpha (Apparently this is Beta now?!), Blizz has restructured and (hopefully) archived all the previous forum posts. It feels sensible to repost my own thoughts, highlight some areas of discussion that have come up over the past few weeks discussing shadow priest in BFA. Since I'm getting in here early this time I'd like to establish a few post ground rules, because hopefully this thread can also serve to be the "Feedback Megathread" for the shadow spec and community. There's a lot of prominent community members on the US I've wanted to discuss topics with for a while, hopefully with this thread that can happen. 1: Keep feedback constructive. 2: Focus on fun, not numbers. 3: Don't just redesign the spec yourself. Think of concepts that solve problems, and things it'd be cool to have, try to avoid attempting a detailed rework / spell design. 4: People will disagree, but please keep it civil. 5: Wish lists aren't feedback. If you can tie why you think something is a good idea into what specific problems you're having and how it solves them then do so. But simply saying "My feedback is I want x" isn't helping. (Now give me an hour or so to actually write this thing) Ice Bear's shadow thesis statements: The general direction of reducing the impact of Voidform, and Voidform stacks is a good one. However, the rotational strength and complexity that shadow arguably had in legion, largely came from the pace and strength of the Voidform mechanic. Something must, at least in some part, replace this for shadow to remain a fun and engaging spec going forward. Shadow's only form of burst aoe damage is also still heavily gated by voidform with void eruption, despite the form itself being nearly irrelevant damage wise but also half of our intended rotation. It's not fun to have something as core as burst / burst aoe tied to timing and delaying a spell which, unlike other examples where this does occur, is tied to our core rotation and is arguably one of our most important rotational spells. Pacing: I'll split this into two sections, in this section I'll discuss shadow's pacing whilst levelling. Later on I will discuss the pacing in endgame content. Whilst levelling, shadow's pacing is noticeably lower than it is on Live servers, to a jarring degree. This is largely due to the vastly reduced effectiveness of Voidform and abysmal levels of base haste we're capable of scrambling together in levelling gear. It's no secret nor surprise that haste makes casting specs feel more fun to play, it increases the fluidity of a lot rotations and provides more for the player to 'do' when playing. Other specs are of course also affected by this massive reduction in stats going into BFA, the issue with this for shadow is that the rotation was designed in Legion around having large amounts of potential haste which is simply no longer there in BFA. Shadow has a simple rotation with no interactions or 'procs' (Not saying procs are the best way to solve this), it barely even has a baseline cooldown. This was fine in Legion because of the pace Voidform brought. Without any haste, shadow feels like an understatted oldschool fire mage. Slow, monotonous, without interaction, and not much fun. It's not 'all' doom and gloom for levelling though. Void eruptions redesign feels good when it hits large numbers of targets, it also feels good to have fairly hard hitting mind blast regardless of being in void form or not. Eruption's change to not require dots was definitely a step in the right direction, but as it plays such a massive role in how we play in BFA, I'm often finding it either becomes available too late, or I'm sitting on my thumbs waiting for a good time to use it. Again, this would be fine for a none rotational ability, but void eruption is a rotational ability. Being put in a position where you don't want to erupt and waste the damage slows the spec down even more. Continued later in the thread (I didn't reserve space because I am a dummy).Hpellipsis705 20h
22h 2hand Katana for SUB, ditch the dags I think to help differentiate fantasy and all that .. and give a little bit more room for variety / class fantasy -- Sub rogues should equip a thin, long 2hander Katana These Katana's would be exclusive, and limited to SUB rogue only, as an alternate means of weapons to the regular daggers. You could switch back to daggers, or back to you Katana, with minor variation in damage, but should essentially retain the same damage capacityDoozlebabbit9 22h
22h Stance Bar Customisation (Druid) Would it be possible to please update the default UI to enable customisation of the Stance Bar? At the moment my bar is: Guardian | Feral | Travel | Moonkin | Treant | Stag Which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Treant form should be a normal spell not a stance, it doesn't apply usual shapeshifting advantages such as snare removal. Having Stag form separate but other travel forms consolidated is also a pain. This could be alleviated by making the Stance Bar customisable for Druids and allowing us to select the order in which the forms appear and keybind accordingly.Miranthi3 22h
1d Unholy DK Spec Feedback Unholy Death Knight gameplay feels very slow in BFA compared to Legion. The spec experiences extended periods of downtime, primarily as a result of many Legion Artifact Traits being either no longer present or converted into talents, as well as some talents no longer being available. While I understand this is to be expected, and while some of the issues have been patched over in with the buff to the Runic Corruption passive, I feel that the spec still feels a little too sluggish due to the number of removed and nerfed passives. Ostensibly, the Death Coil Runic Power cost reduced from 45 to 40 may appear to address this problem, but this change only really offsets the removal of the Runic Tattoos Artifact Trait (increased Runic Power generation by 13%). Similarly, the buff to Runic Corruption (1.4% chance per 100 Runic Power spent, up from 1%) would appear to fix the issue of Rune generation, this is also offset both by the base reduction in Death Coil’s Runic Power cost, as well as the removal of the Scourge the Unbeliever Artifact Trait (13% chance for Scourge Strike to generate a Rune). Therefore, both of these ‘buffs’ are nullified by the removal of several passives. Also, while reducing the Festering Wounds generated from Festering Strike from 2-4 to 2-3 may address some of the RNG within the spec, overall this will lead to a higher ratio of Festering Strikes to Scourge Strikes within the priority system. The problem with this is that Scourge Strike generates a higher amount of Runic Power through bursting the Festering Wounds, so a lower number of Scourge Strikes leads to less Runic Power generation, resulting in less Death Coils, which snowballs into less Runic Corruption Procs, resulting in slower Rune generation. Perhaps the most significant change that impacts negatively upon the spec is the overhaul of the Unholy Frenzy talent. In Legion, Unholy Frenzy, in addition to the Double Doom Artifact Trait, resulted in a large number of Sudden Doom procs. This results in higher Runic Corruption procs, leading to higher Rune generation, as well as creating a more active style of gameplay due to the low downtime. The removal of both of these key passives has slowed down gameplay significantly, and leads to extended periods of downtime. While not necessarily as severe as the aforementioned issues, the changes to some of the pet abilities will also impact the spec. The removal of the Black Claws Artifact Trait will lead to lower Runic Power generation, due to the reduction of the free Festering Wounds that were being burst. Also, while a small nerf, the reduction of Infected Claws proc chance from 35% to 30% also adds to the compounding issue of less Runes being able to be spent on Scourge Strike over Festering Strike. Thanks for reading.Rotjar1 1d
1d Arms/Fury - Intervene, Disarm, Spell Reflect Theres a certain element missing from these specs. They both deliver on a strong damage rotation with ample enough choice for diversity. However, the group utility for these specs in pvp is really hurting. Disarm and Spell reflect are essential spells they should absolutely be baseline. I'm never not going to have spell reflect chosen as a pvp talent, that defeats the purpose of that system. The other essential spell is Intervene. Being able to intervene cheap shots/counter sheeps/traps etc was always a fun component of the specs' skill cap. It really should be added baseline, or at the very least as a pvp talent.Emagdnim10 1d
1d Subtlety Rogue is Unplayable Moving this post to this forum due to the subject. Subtlety is still unplayable, their rotation is clunky, energy regen is extremely slow. You are literally auto attacking 50% of the time as you need to stack energy in order to properly complete an attack rotation. Sub rogue is also locked into a specific talent build. Pve this is is a lot more prevalent and dps is unsustainable. Is there a reason why we haven’t fixed this as we had so many issues during Legion? And after over 1 year of BFA development? Why is Symbol of Death still in the game? This ability is extremely awkward to use in a rotation when the on use could easily be worked into the class as base stats. Why does ShadowStrike still require stealth and Shadow Dance, this ability should be a base attack no different from mutilate, sinister strike and backstab... it is the Subtlety main attack, having to wait for Shadow Dance to use this ability is rediculous it destroys the combat fluidity. Shadow Dance should also be removed from being a combat rotation ability, this ability would be great if it were only a 1 minute cool down and be used in the same way as Shadow Blades. Currently it is part of a combat rotation and is required in order to deal damage which is wrong... you cannot build a spec which is only capable of dealing periodic burst dps, and unable to deal sustained dps, their dps is completely up and down during a fight.Phay19 1d
1d Hybrid healing shadowmend isn't up to par. ATM shadowmend heals for the same as healing surge/regrowth with a 50% penalty. This isn't so bad for self healing with vt heals but for pvp trying to help heal teammates it isn't as good. I propose they make it so if you heal yourself you get the debuff and if you heal others it's just 100% of the heal no penalty.Isuckatdisc7 1d