Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes

Oct 29, 2018 Upcoming Azerite Armor Improvements Thanks for all of the continued feedback and discussion around the Azerite Armor system. We’ve been following the community discussions closely, and the systems team has been focusing on making some improvements as their top priority. I’ve got some updates to share on our current thoughts, as well as some upcoming changes. To start, here’s some of the bigger issues we’ve been seeing brought up: Overall Availability: While there’s plenty of Azerite Armor in the 295-340 item level range, further sources are heavily limited and susceptible to bad luck. Even players who are doing a wide range of high-end content are still wearing at least one Item Level 340 piece, despite having replaced all their other gear several times over. Everything else about the system is basically irrelevant if you can’t get your hands on the gear in the first place. Lack of Agency: When items do drop, it can feel like you’re not really given much in the way of options. You can choose whether you want this to be a Fire or a Frost piece, or a versatile one with a generic trait, but that isn’t necessarily an interesting choice. And when you look at the complete package, those choices don’t often feel like they’re having a meaningful impact on how you play your character. Trait Depth: Several of the traits that are considered the “best” mathematically turn out to be some of the simplest mechanically, which reinforces the sense that the system isn’t really affecting gameplay. We agree that those issues need to be resolved. So, here’s a few changes we’re working on: We need to make Azerite Armor more available, for all types of players, through a method everyone can utilize. So we’re actually looking at Emissary rewards for that. The plan is to make Azerite Armor rewards from Emissary quests scale all the way up to 370 (based on your item level), which gives everyone a new, reliable source for appropriate gear. Further on, we’re looking at making some further improvements to the ways Emissaries reward gear, but getting more Azerite Armor in your hands is the higher priority for the immediate future. When we add new Azerite Armor in what we’re calling “BfA Season 2” (starting with Siege of Zuldazar and its corresponding Mythic+ and PvP seasons), we’re going to add another outer ring to those pieces of gear that has two spec-specific trait options for each spec. This effectively means that your favorite traits will be available on a lot more items, while also opening up a lot more options across the scope of all of your Azerite pieces (and thus, we hope, create more interesting decisions). We’re also going to continue to work on the individual traits themselves. We’ve done some basic tuning so far, but we’re taking the lessons we’ve learned from these first iterations forward, and Tides of Vengeance will bring new traits into the pool that reflect that. Our goal is to make the more generic traits be decent middle-of-the-road options for when you want to use a single piece for multiple situations or specs, but make sure the spec-specific options (which are generally the more interesting traits) win out in their respective environments. Some of those changes won’t be coming until Tides of Vengeance (and you’ll see them on the PTR soon), but the overall availability of Azerite Armor is a much more pressing concern, so we’re investigating ways of hotfixing that directly into the live game. I don’t have a solid timeline on when that might be yet, but we’ll definitely have more information to share as soon as we can confirm when that can happen.Lore899 Oct 29, 2018
Apr 24, 2018 Welcome! Please read Welcome to the Battle for Azeroth Beta Items and Classes forum! This forum is here to provide you with a friendly environment where you can discuss the Battle for Azeroth Beta test with your fellow World of Warcraft players, and describe issues related to items and classes that you encountered while testing. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy, so we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct ( and guidelines ( before posting. Important Reminders: Search The search function at the top of the World of Warcraft community site is extremely effective and robust. Before you create a new forum topic, please be use it to search for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer for which you are looking. Making a new thread on an existing subject can result in your thread being deleted or, if you continue to re-post the same content, the loss of your forum privileges for spamming. Rating The forum rating system can be used to promote positive discussion, demote unhelpful comments, and even report posts that violate the forum Code of Conduct. By hovering over a post you'll be presented with several options, including a "thumbs up" (Like) icon. Clicking the "thumbs up" icon will rate the post up. You can also quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of a violation. Please note that you can only rate each post once. Use your power wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community. Guidelines In addition to the forum Code of Conduct (, here are some common courtesy guidelines to follow. While these do technically fall within the bounds of the Code of Conduct, these cover more specific examples of common errors that will lead to thread deletions or posting privileges being revoked. The World of Warcraft forums are for discussion of topics directly related to World of Warcraft. The forums here are specifically to discuss the game and related topics. Any topics not related to World of Warcraft,, or Blizzard Entertainment are subject to deletion. Don't post in all capital letters, use a misleading title, excessive punctuation, and/or non-standard symbols, etc. While everyone wants their posts read, we ask you to refrain from using these types of tactics in order to bring more people to your thread. Let your post stand on its own merit. Threads violating this guideline are subject to deletion. Using the words "Blizzard," "Blue," or any community team members' names in a thread topic is frowned upon. Everyone would like Blizzard to read and acknowledge his or her post, and we understand that; however, use of such words in the subject line does not help that come to pass. Please make your thread title relevant to the post subject. Threads violating this guideline are subject to deletion. Posting "First" or IBTL ("in before lock") constitutes as spamming. You will be suspended if you create a post that is intended to call out that you achieved a specific reply number in a thread. This is considered spamming. Posting IBTL ("in before the lock") is not helpful, and if you feel a thread should be moderated please use the rating button to do so. Do not "bump" posts. The act of posting simply to bump a thread is considered spamming. This also includes bumping very old threads for no reason (called "necro bumping" or "necroing"). Petition posts are frowned upon. These are discussion forums and, as such, we ask that you hold discussions. Creating a thread to ask for replies as votes is not a discussion. Threads violating this guideline are subject to deletion. Do not post about locked or deleted threads. Posts that are moderated have a reason behind the moderation. It's up to you to read the forum Code of Conduct and these guidelines to determine what you did wrong, learn from your mistake, and attempt to post again without breaking any rules. There is also cool down period we institute during times of high forum traffic. If you are violating policy during one of these times due to frustration, you will be given a three-hour cool down suspension. This does not get logged on your record and is simply in place to keep the forums readable and civil. Serious violations will still have the appropriate action taken against them as documented in the Code of Conduct, and we do keep track of these cool down periods separately—if one is found to be repeatedly violating policy, appropriate action will be taken.Kaivax0 Apr 24, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Enhancement Shaman PTR Changes In an upcoming Public Test Realm (PTR) build, several changes are coming for Enhancement Shamans. We’re adjusting the following talents: Boulderfist damage bonus increased to 35%. Lightning Shield will no longer generate any bonus Maelstrom when the Lightning Shield overcharges. Landslide changed to a 40% proc chance. Forceful Winds reduced from 100% per stack to 80% per stack. Totem Mastery: the Storm Totem benefit increased from 5% to 10%. Hailstorm’s damage increased by 50%. Overcharge now causes a 9 second cooldown to Lightning Bolt, down from 12 seconds. Fury of Air damage increased by 40%. Crashing Storm damage increased by 40%. Lightning Shield and Forceful Winds are both popular talents right now, and we don’t want to reduce Enhancement’s overall damage with changes to those two talents, so additionally: The damage done by all Enhancement abilities increased by 5%. The changes above should help make the different choices on many talent rows much more competitive with each other. In addition to these changes above, we’re adjusting how many tooltips are generated. This may cause some websites to show that the damage or healing of almost every single Enhancement ability has changed. Do not panic; we are not lowering all of your damage and healing! This will be a behind-the-scenes data adjustment only. Thank you for testing with us on the PTR!Nimox284 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 BFA Unholy Death Knight Feedback (Cont.) Old thread link - Current talking points Single Target Damage ST is passive feels unrewarding ... ST Damage is extremely lackluster Army of the dead Army of the dead not strong enough to warrant an 8-10 min cd. Has lost its "powerful moment" feeling Suggested merging aotd and apocalypse together and slightly increasing its CD Armies of the Dammed not very good in raids. Does not succeed where it should on long encounters. Death Coil Death Coil RP cost being too high. Not casted as much as we did in legion (pre unholy frenzy buff) since the removal of key artifact traits. (Double doom,Runic tattoos) T90/T60 Talent row offer no choice With Defile and Pestilence giving little to no gain on ST(DND on ST?) compared to Epidemic. Could be argued epidemic should be baseline(Work with Sudden Doom Procs). Could be argued Infected Claws should be baseline as well Soul Reaper is extremely strong in every situation. Harbinger of Doom/ Pestilent Pustules severely under tuned in comparison. Also talked about Unholy Blight having no use currently. Gcd makes it annoying to use Suggested turning Unholy Blight into new version of Necrotic Plague with wounds extending its duration/increasing its damage Spec specific azerite traits not very good in practice Festering Doom, Bone Spike Graveyard, Cankerous wounds, Harrowwing Decay, Last Surprise etc Meaning anytime we get Azerite traits we default to neutral ones unless its Festermight. Making azerite upgrades harder to come by Would like to see more Wound/VP traits instead of Pet/Festering strike ones Dark Arbiter/Summon Garg Whether or not it should return to its Abt form (2 min cd/20 sec duration) or return baseline or bothUrioh194 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Marksmanship PTR Changes The Public Test Realms (PTR) are seeing several changes for Marksmanship Hunters. Here’s some context on those changes. One goal of ours for Marksmanship is proficiency in keeping targets at range in PvE and PvP situations. Marksmanship plays best when you have distance from your target, so we’re emphasizing some of the tools that help you either move a target away from you, or keep your distance. - Bursting Shot has had its knockback range increased, can no longer be dodged, and snares targets for 6 seconds now. - Steady Shot will now increase the duration of Concussive Shot on the target by 3 seconds. This will work on a Concussive Shot from any friendly Hunter, not just your own Concussive Shot. Rapid Fire has had some usability problems in PvP. Most other channeled spells will continue to deal damage when your target runs behind a pillar and breaks line of sight, but Rapid Fire requires constant line of sight. We’re changing that, and now it will behave like almost every other channeled spell that players cast, and will continue to damage a target, even if the target is no longer in line of sight. We also think it’s cool to be able to use Disengage while channeling Rapid Fire, so now you can. Aimed Shot is a driving force behind a significant amount of the damage a Marksmanship Hunter deals. There are a lot of different stacking bonuses you can get from various Talents and Azerite Armor that can swing the damage of Aimed Shot by a huge amount. Some of these bonuses are entirely uncontrolled, which made Aimed Shot an unreliable source of damage. We want Aimed Shot to feel like an impactful and more reliable source of damage, so: - Careful Aim is now a guaranteed bonus to Aimed Shot damage against targets above 80% health or below 20% health. Trueshot has changed a lot over the years, but it’s currently not a very exciting button, and it could feel much more impactful when you use it. We like that it makes your Aimed Shot cast time reduced, so we’re keeping that, and it now additionally causes your Rapid Fire and Aimed Shot abilities to recharge significantly faster while Trueshot is active. The new version of Trueshot is a significant pacing change for its duration, allowing you to cast multiple Aimed Shots and Rapid Fires during its duration. We’re also lowering its cooldown from 3 minutes to 2 minutes.Nimox376 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Affliction Warlock Feedback Now that we have switched over from Alpha to Beta, with new forums, it is time for fresh feedback threads. I am first going to go over the changes to Affliction so far, followed by talents and will offer a little feedback mixed in on things I feel should be worked on or changed. This post is not going to be about numbers or tuning, but more about how Affliction feels mechanically. I may discuss numbers briefly but it is not meant to imply any tuning changes. What has changed? Some active abilities and talents have been removed/replaced in the Affliction kit. Removed: Drain Soul Life Tap (Empowered Life Tap with it) Howl of Terror Summon Infernal Summon Doomguard (Grimoire of Supremacy along with these) Grimoire of Service (Imp, Voidwalker, Felhunter, Succubus utility) Reap Souls (Some specs kept their artifact abilities, this would have been useless) Added: Deathbolt (talent) Shadow Bolt Drain Life Shadowfury Overall, we are losing more active abilities than we are gaining, as is the case for many specs in the game. With these changes comes a big loss of utility for Affliction - no more Infernal stun, Cripple, optional Howl of Terror, or bonus Spell Lock, Seduce, Imp cleanse, or clutch Voidwalker taunt from Grimoire of Service. We got Shadowfury, which has a cast time and arguably does not feel like a good enough replacement for all of that. Also, along with most classes, all of the artifact passives for Affliction are gone. This includes things like Soul Flame, Sweet Souls, Wrath of Consumption, etc. We have gained Azerite Armor passives, but many of those have yet to be unveiled. Shadow Bolt/Drain Life vs. Drain Soul This is one of the big debates about Affliction so far. Drain Soul was removed and replaced by both Shadow Bolt and Drain Life. Shadow Bolt functions as the primary damage filler, while Drain Life serves as a high healing, but low damage channel. Drain Soul was one of the strongest fillers in the game in Legion. With all the artifact passives and damage modifiers it gave along with stackable Unstable Affliction, it did an insane amount of damage and healing. It does not particularly come as a surprise to me that Blizzard wanted to tone down the strength of Affliction, but I will say this: Shadow Bolt feels very empty. I liked having it in the past and I was sad to see it go when it did, but without having Nightfall selected (I will discuss this more in the talents section) it is very uninspired and does not feel good when combined with having to stack UA, in my humble opinion. Talents discussion below.Xoja1662 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 8.1 may be the end People are leaving, guilds look empty, friends list don't log on anymore, PTR looks horrible, Blizzcon is incredibly insulting to Blizzard fans.... Been a loyal Blizzard customer since vanilla..... been a Blizzard customer since Warcraft, Orcs vs Humans way back in middle school...... I'll be subbed til December 11th. If you can't turn this !@#$ around, I'm done with your company. Your cinematic team is amazing, however the game is going to %^-* and I'm seeing no effort to course correct. Guess it has to come to an end at some point.Gumble64 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Classes still Garbage Nothing that you will do Blizzard will stem the tide of people leaving. 8.1 nope, 8.1.5, nope 8.2 and beyond, nope. The classes still are hot garbage to play. The Azerite system will not fix that. The classes in BfA are just turds that you lazly crapped out because the company is too cheap to hire real class developers to work on the classes. You can put out new content, but when people feel as if they are playing with arthritis or on a bad trip from a drug cut with bulls**t, they will stop playing. Their character is how they interface with the game, and that seems to be long forgotten. Poor interface, poor player retention. Azerite wont fix this problem, people who actually care about this game will. This current group of grifters working at Blizzard need to go. And when Blizzard pisses on your face, they send Ion out there to use us lawyer double speak and try to convince you it's just raining. This does not bode well for the game at all.Bruzes22 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Frost DK Rotation Smoothing All in all, I like where Frost DK's are standing right now. With that said, there's always room for a little improvement. The one thing that would smooth out the rotation overall, would be to bake in the 4 Piece T19 NH bonus to Rime. Every time we cast a Rime proc, we get 6 runic power (or 8 RP like the original 4 piece bonus). Firstly, during BoS burst there are times where we cannot spend a GCD to cast a Rime proc or we risk dropping the breath prematurely. I believe that rewarding the Rime proc with a small RP gain will help smooth out this speed bump. Secondly, there are short periods where we are both Rune and Runic power starved. Adding a small RP gain to Rime procs will help in reducing these droughts with an added Frost Strike here and there. It makes sense, and it's not asking for a huge rework of how the class/Spec works.Ghannon0 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Bulwark of the Masses - Azerite Gear trait I have leveled a BM Hunter, Ele Shaman, Fire Mage, Ret Pally and Havoc DH all to 120 since BfA beta started and as I level their azurite armor I get this second level trait offered to me Bulwark of the Masses - this trait is for when you are surrounded by 4+ enemies you gain a shield that absorbs 2,919 damage. First of all, please note I play DPS, not tanks. I most often do not get myself in a situation when I am surrounded by 4+ enemies, and actually the only time I see that is when a druid or blood dk has the capability to pull that number and survive when questing. Sooooo why is it offered a to DPS when we could actually benefit more greatly from some other trait that would be more realistic and beneficial to us?Startastic6 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Bad luck pvp cache I've had some terrible luck with items coming out of the pvp cache for about 3-4 weeks now. I used to be able to play this game a lot more when I was younger, which made it much easier to fill the gaps when it came to gearing up. Sadly, my adult life has led to time constraints, and now I must focus my time on the activities I enjoy most. Rated battle grounds have been a blast, but reaching the cap, and trying to push my rating takes up the majority of my play time, so it really hurts to spend 4 weeks straight with no item upgrades (I mean I can use them for other specs, but I don't really care to play those specs). If theres anything you can do to help lessen the RNG factor of the pvp cache I would love you guys forever. Something akin to what you are planning for the mythic cache sounds reasonable. Getting the right item slot only to get the worst combination of stats on it is a total bummer, especially 3-4 weeks in a row. Thanks!Wael4 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Add this into 8.1! I cannot wait for the day we can choose roles. Let me elaborate. We were first locked into a spec, and if you wanted to change spec, you had to create a whole new character. Then they implemented changing between specs; this was great! I had thought of this way before it was put into practice. When I would speak of it, I was told over and over: "Know your role". Well, here we go, let's put in another idea that seems insane. Allow for us to have choices of 3 roles; race and class; 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 dps! For example, I could be a Night Elf Mistweaver Monk(Heals), Human Protection Paladin(Tank) and a Gnome Destruction Warlock(dps); all of this on the same logged-in character. Then, yes then! Allow us to modify that as well, allow for re-spec'ing those roles. Allow for me to change(for a fair amount of gold) my Gnome Destruction Warlock, or any other roles, to a Night Elf Shadow Priest. It sounds crazy, but it adds flexibility that WoW needs, imo. Thank you. **edited only to add space for new paragraph**Ebonaegis7 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Guardian Druid Feedback Just got the game downloaded since I have crappy internet. Haven't done much testing yet on Guardian Druid but if anyone has feedback/thoughts on the class feel free to post it here, since I went through 4 pages and didn't see a thread for Guardian Druid Feedback. The few things I noticed was Lunar Beam is still lackluster compared to Rend and Tear, Ironfur I got 2 stacks ( almost 3 stacks) but it still felt like the duration was too short and the Frenzied Regeneration feels weird now with longer CD and less heal-output.Caféaulait1051 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 State of Shadow, 8.1 Edition Hello! With 8.1 having gone live, we of Warcraftpriests decided it would be a good idea to write a document that summarizes Shadow’s biggest problems right now and to create a forum thread for discussion to go with it. If you wish to contribute to the discussion, please do so in a constructive way. Thanks in advance for reading! EU forum link: Summary of what’s discussed in more detail in the doc: Shadow doesn’t have enough strengths to make up for the weaknesses it has. Execute and multidotting aren’t nearly as strong for us anymore, and our weaknesses from previous expansions (such as single-target or AoE) haven’t been improved enough to compensate. Shadow Word: Death becoming a talent was a mistake. Too much of our AoE comes from our talents, and they do not synergize with our kit well at all. Baseline AoE is weak, boring, and unintuitive. Mind Sear keeps you in Voidform longer which goes against the goal of getting out more Void Eruptions; the problem is that Void Eruption is tied to entering Voidform. Shadow’s mobility is quite bad right now, with our only mobility options coming from our talents. We don’t really have anything meaningful to offset our weak mobility, either. Shadow’s survivability is not in a good spot right now. Losing our artifact made Dispersion too weak considering the downsides it has. Shadow Word: Void fixes Mind Blast and Void Bolt coming off cooldown at the same time, but we have to invest a talent point to fix it when Fury and Beast Mastery have had this fixed baseline. Void Torrent made sense in Legion, but is in a bad state right now. It needs to be designed with Battle for Azeroth Shadow in mind.Publik1034 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Prot Warrior changes in 8.1 After reading, and testing the changes on the PTR, I feel the 8.1 changes are not nearly enough for prot warriors. One change I heard about not listed below, physical ranged attacks are now blockable. What these changes are still missing is magic damage blocking, a lower cost for Ignore Pain, and ideally a even larger HP boost than proposed. Ignore Pain Fight through the pain, ignoring 50% of damage taken, up to [(0 + Attack power * 3.5) * (1 + Versatility)] total damage prevented. Cooldown changed from None to 0.5 sec cooldown. No longer on the GCD. Shield Block Raise your shield, blocking all melee attacks against you for 6 sec. Increases Shield Slam damage by 30% while active. Cooldown changed from 18 sec recharge to 16 sec recharge. Vanguard Hardened by battle, your Stamina is increased by 40%45%, and your armor is increased by 50%55% of your Strength. Even if all of the changes listed above were implemented, both confirmed changes and my recommendations, I feel the above changes should have been a hotfix early in the season and are overdue. The confirmed changes do help, but do not solve the struggle alone, hence my call to action. I am hoping we can get some level of assurance that these issues will be watched closely and addressed timely. I am trying not to go negative. I am respectfully asking for feedback from the dev team on my feedback to understand why the 8.1 changes are some what underwhelming and what the time line is to making further changes.Yeksihw11 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 The Dead Spin Well this is the end. You pulled it off Ion. You drove a die hard player away. Hope you're proud of yourself. When people ask what killed WoW... your name is going to be the first that comes up. Honestly, I could do a better job than your entire class dev team after being the grinning recipient of an icepick lobotomy. So, as it is not my style to just go quietly into the night. As my final act here I'll lay out just how monumentally stupid your decisions have been, and how you killed the fun for so many players. Little backstory. I started playing in Vanilla, shortly before the paladin overhaul patch. Love the game. I've been everything. From a hardcore raider in vanilla, to casual as life demanded it of me. I've had long stints where the economy has kept me from playing all together and stints where I just didn't like the game's current content and did other things. Through all that I loved the game, and when life would let me I played. Being a WoW player was never a choice. If I could be, I was. Cause I had faith in the company that they would continue giving us a fun way to relieve stress. Let's go over the parts of wow that are currently good, and currently bad, and why it isn't the bad things that are driving me off. What's good: The story: Top notch. I'm going to keep up with what happens with Zappeh Boi, cause that's going to be interesting. The World: Your world design team is top notch as well. Always loved the world. What's bad: The systems design: Azerite gear is a great idea, but with horrible execution. And you know it. But as usual you refuse to scrap anything cause your texas sized ego tells you THAT will make you look bad. Well guess what, your mismanagement does that every day of the week. The Class Design: Here's the big one. Class design isn't a dumpster fire. It's a diaper hurricane. You didn't drop the ball, you ate it. Then you had the gall to make vague insinuations that its 'our problem' and that we're 'bad players'. We tell you time and again this needs more attention than azerite, and time and time again you get in front of a camera, act like the king handing down knowledge from on high, and tell us we're stupid behind a thin veil of faux civility. And lastly: You. You are the biggest problem. The buck stops with you Ion. You are the lead dev. If something's wrong, its because you didn't take steps to fix it. I don't want to hear 'its hard' or 'its complicated'. Cause I honestly don't care. You weren't hired to do an easy or simple job. You were hired to do an incredibly difficult one. And if you can't cut it, which clearly you can't. You shouldn't be doing it. But as usual Ion is the smartest guy in any room Ion happens to be in, so the problem can't be you right? Wrong. Not only should you no longer be drawing a pay check, you shouldn't have been hired in the first place. The bottom line: All of that stuff, and your blatant incompetence aren't why I'm leaving. It's the culture at Blizzard, which every day looks more and more like EA. People who under perform or blatantly insult the community remain with the company, and move up despite sub par performance. But hey, the shareholders and your Activision overlords still get to buy sports cars, so who gives a crap about the people playing your death-spiraling game. The world is great, the story is great. But NONE OF THAT MATTERS if the vessel through which you experience that great world is garbage. The real reason why I'm leaving: It's simple. It's not the mechanics, the gameplay, or even you Ion. Its that I have lost faith in your ability to make a game that is fun. You lost the fun, and that wouldn't be a deal breaker normally. Its that you lost it and I don't see you ever pulling your head out of your butt long enough to find it again. THAT is why I unsubbed, and why I will not be resubbing so long as you remain at Blizzard. It's not worth it. It's not worth putting up with the insult, the poor performance, and the staggering lack of consideration. To everyone else: It's been fun. I've made a ton of lifelong friends playing this game and I am honestly grateful for that. But I'm just not the kind of person to let someone piss on my head and call it rain. I'm out. If Ion ever leaves I might come back. But I just don't have any faith in him, and that's a deal breaker for me. See you on the flip side... thanks for the memories.Kharn1 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 BfA Feral Feedback (cont'd) First one reached its limit. Wouldn't let me quote. Here's a popular post. Posted by Gontier First and foremost I'd like to say that for the past six years I've been a Blizzard Entertainment Forum MVP over at the European region*, so I'm quite knowledgeable about how your communication works, I'm well aware of how to communicate with our fellow players with a "Blizzard mindset", so to speak, etc. I'm also a feral druid, obviously. Every Voice Matters. Commit To Quality. These words.. they're part of what you call your "company core values" that you so proudly claim to hold on to, the points that you aspire to meet when creating new games and/or new content. Today you failed us at both these points. You've had plenty of time to listen to our feedback, our voices that you claim matter and respond accordingly. You've had alpha, beta, PTR, pre-patch, and now even on live. You know what's even worse? Not once during this time did we receive a post from one of your Community Managers/Developers explaining your thoughts about feral, no matter the sheer value of constructive criticism we gave you, but finally when we're worthy of your attention and get it, you gave us hope with the promise of a "tuning package" which turned out to be a flat damage increase to three abilities, two if you consider that one of said abilities nullifies the other. Not to mention that these fixes does not rectify any of the true, real concerns that we have and want, and even need, fixed first and foremost. Our energy regen, our ST and AoE, our lack of burst, our lack of effective DPS cooldown and how Berserk is almost a dps loss to use due to the GCD (can you just remove Berserk and replace it with Incarnation already, an actual DPS cooldown, please?). How Feral is still the least changed specialization throughout World of Warcraft's history. We're practically the same as we were back in The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King, while most other classes have received substantial updates and big class changes that make them easier live up to today's version of World of Warcraft. We do not. You took what, most Community Managers would call, a "constructive and well-thought through thread" and didn't treat it with the attention and care that it deserved. It's a good, well explained thread that describes some of our current issues that we, feral players, experience with your game. If you don't find this thread particularly interesting there's plenty of others both on this forum and other social media that we know you take feedback from as well, not to mention the in-game feedback and suggestion tools. "Takes on the form of a great cat to deal damage with bleeds and bites." That's your definition of the feral specialization in the game and I fail to see where we live up to this anywhere. We're not great, we certainly don't have the bleed damage nor the teeth to have an effective bite. Hell, I'm not sure we can be considered to have claws. With the Battle for Azeroth pre-patch you removed the artifact and with it everything that made feral even viable and competitive to begin with. Everything that made feral work. I'd like to strongly ask you to review Legion's patch notes for the feral specialization and see that it took almost an entire expansion for you to make us viable in Legion, and that is not okay a second time around. Learn and Grow is one of your other company core values. Please take that to heart and learn and grow when it comes to feral and what needs to be changed. We really can't bother with band-aid fixes every expansion. Q&A EDIT: Ion specifically said that we, feral, should not triumph on Aoe, not every specialization is supposed to be superior in every area of the game(hey, I can buy that), but the problem is also that we don't triumph on single target either, nor utility or bring anything "wow" to the table when it comes to raids or Mythic Plus. There's still plenty of fixes we need to see for a long term solution instead of band-aid fixes. *The MVP program is held by the Blizzard Community Team on their forums, Blizzard Forum MVPs are NOT employees of Blizzard Entertainment. Can Blizzard please please remove our +50% haste then do a tuning pass around that?Carbonaceous900 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 What niche is AoE capped at 5 targets? I'd love to know what gave rise to this, we see a lot of it in BfA. Fury Warriors, Marks Hunters, WW Monk stacks stopping at 5, Ele Shamans, maybe more? I don't understand why this number is supposed to feel good. From what I can tell our stuff that is capped at 5 targets isn't any better than other classes that can hit everything. And it's not like it excels at 2-3 targets either. What niche is this supposed to be for?Varrow11 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 RETRIBUTION Paladin needs fixing RETRIBUTION Paladin needs fixing - BLIZZARD reply Hello Blizzard, it seems that all you do is keep nerfing ret palading without giving any thought to the class itself and the lack of luster .. lack of dps .. lack of of everything except us having a bubble and a lay on hands it is almost pointless trying to do anything because everyone will rather have a rogue or warrior or demon hunter or anything else other than a hybrid class that has no comparable DPS why is Blizzard hating ret paladins so muchGeöspäwn72 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Thread didn’t appear Put effort into a thread. Didn’t appear. Is it stuck in the SPAM filter or lost in the ether? Pls lock this once resolved.Dogemon5 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Frost Mage PTR Changes/Feedback I notice there has been quite a few blue posts for specs with respect to the upcoming or latest PTR changes. For example, Enhance and Ele Shaman, Shadow, Demonology, Affliction, MM Hunter, and more. But I cannot see any blue posts regarding frost mage. The latest changes appear reasonably significant and, I would have thought, probably warrant some feedback. Specifically feedback on the intent of the changes for the spec, how the spec is performing with the adjustments and whether that performance is warranting further adjustment. TBH I have not seen any specific feedback from frost mages actually playing on the PTR ... unless someone can point me to any. Was this latest round of adjustments driven by frost mage feedback? So could frost mages get some feedback please?Telchar13 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Demonology Warlock PTR Changes In the current build up on the PTR (Public Test Realm), a few changes were made to the Demonic Consumption level 100 talent: - Any imp that the Demonic Tyrant consumes now has a chance to grant you the Demonic Core buff. If your Tyrant consumes six imps when summoned, you have six individual chances to get a Demonic Core buff applied to you. - The damage buff to the Demonic Tyrant from consuming the Wild Imps is now much higher. One additional note about the Demonic Tyrant: - In an upcoming build, the Demonic Tyrant will also extend the duration of any demons summoned from the Nether Portal level 100 talent.Nimox189 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Blizzard is a joke The way class designed has been handled is very unprofessional. To ship classes recognised by the head of design as unfinished, make people wait (and pay) 4 months to only change a few talents/ number tuning on frankly unfun classes, is just disheartening. I remember the days where I would have 8-10 classes max level and couldn't even pick a main. Now the one class I actually enjoy is terrible in all 3 specs (and you ignored all the feedback) and its killed the game for me. Spend more time looking for positive changes on the forums than I do logged in the game lol! Please communicate better Blizz, you used to care, shame. Rant over.Mercybliz31 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 If You're Unhappy, Consider Unsubbing tl;dr There hasn't been enough progress to keep me interested and it doesn't look like there's going to be. New design decisions don't look like it's making the game more fun baseline. I've unsubbed. I like WoW. It's a good timesink, but I've unsubbed. There's more to it than QQ'ing over not receiving significant changes until 8.1. The Q&A just made the decision easier. I can't speak for everyone or everything, but here are some of my motivations: I dislike a lot of the WoW model of timegating a lot of stuff for arbitrary reasons. Most of the stuff I want is just up to RNGesus. There's no reward for significant or prolonged effort. There are other games I can be playing over WoW. The architecture of the game has been old for a while and now they want to make classes go at a crawl with all the pruning they've done. I could've forgiven a lot of that if class gameplay was fun but it's not. Issues that have been identified for months have been routinely ignored with little to no feedback from developers into players' concerns. Being told to pound sand until the next big patch (and therefore feel like !@#$ for the entire beginning of an expansion and raid cycle) is not just demoralizing, it's infuriating. I already played this spec's rotation for an expansion. I don't need or want the Diet version for another expansion. Their changes to Mythic+, loot, and classes don't inspire my support. It's just more arbitrary timegating and RNGesus at play. I didn't really care about M+ in Legion because my spec was %^-* for it, but the gear change moving into BfA is silly. Of course we can't change gear during a raid fight, but how does that have any bearing on a dungeon? Why are we allowed to change gear at all in a raid if we can't do it in a fight? It's just bad precedence, doesn't offer any new or interesting gameplay options, and just serves to make dungeons either aoe lulfests or slow defensive slugfests. This change could make sense to me if they were removing repairs in dungeons too to make deaths/wipes have more of a consequence, but then at that point they could just put a group or player lives limit on the instance. Give players more options. For M+ let us choose between some affix options on our keystones that better suits our group composition. Make them standard for MDI or something, but give us agency Fixing the TF problem by giving players alternative ways to upgrade their gear. The pantheon trinkets were great. It would be even greater if we had other upgrade items. Even if it's linked to ilvl scaling with difficulty level it would definitely alleviate a lot of players' frustrations. Warmode talents. It doesn't make sense to me at all these are available for World Questing but not dungeons and raids when they play such a huge factor in smoothing out the process of leveling/questing. It feels like part of the power budget from my class was pulled out to make room for these, not that these enhance my base spec. Flight and reputation gains being put on the timegate again...being unable to fly in older zones without following old, boring pathfinder paradigms and rep grinding. If you want pathfinder to feel special, just make the pathfinder rewards special. I wouldn't care if newbies can fly in the Broken Isles once BfA drops. Stale combat system, no implementation of mounted combat (even when it's been possible and executed for certain quests,) etc. and no signs of improvement, just maintenance. Player characters feeling inconsequential especially in events and lore. (The time I watched Alleria struggle to use Void powers while I literally stood next to her in Void Form...) Sluggish AH/bags. Being unable to sort things by item level. Older zones not being updated/modernized in new expansions. Cities like Thunderbluff not getting portals to newer areas. Super repetitive quests. Kill x. Gather y. Super awkward summoning system that bugs out often. It being limited to one class due to "class fantasy" suddenly being more important than gameplay Streamlining things for a playerbase that doesn't use those features/being out of touch with the community. Lack of communication. I know the QnA today was feedback, and I am grateful for that, but this has been a joke on the alpha and beta. So many communities were dying to do the devs' work for them but there was just radio silence. Why continue to contribute to the system when other developers are more receptive to feedback? A lot of this stuff would be forgivable or able to be overlooked for me if the base gameplay was fun or they were making steps towards that direction. But it isn't and I don't see it becoming so. I know many people have dedicated a lot of time to characters, friends, and guilds, and I understand those motivations. But please don't feel like you have to stick with the game due to what you've already invested otherwise you'll never be able to quit. It's the sunk cost fallacy.Presance126 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 GCD Creep So we're starting to slowly see abilities creep back off the GCD, and it makes me wonder - why can't the developers just admit that the GCD change was a bad one? Just flatout admit it, and have a conversation about what will be put back off the GCD in order to return some of the fluidness and speed to the gameplay. The arguments like, "it felt silly to have dps classes popping all their CDs at once" were quite foolish imo, as this was just a product of lazy and/or antequated design. If you want DPS cooldowns that aren't just stacked with each other, design them in such a way that they are incentivized by very different situations. Just generally, I do not like the GCD changes and nor do any of the people I play with, who are mostly cutting edge raiders and people that run high keys. I think a big part of the general malaise about BFA stems from the pruning that came from losing artifacts and the GCD change; the game just *feels* worse than Legion, and I think that boils down to basic gameplay changes, since the art design and raid design of BFA is pretty good. So admit it - the GCD change was a failure. There's no shame in walking it back.Mortis12 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Perspective and Dev Failure I went into my post history to get some perspective on how long we have been telling blizzard they boned the classes for BFA. I made a post January 29th 2018 after the first BFA alpha build was posted on mmo-champion. It was called "BFA DK Disappointment." It has since been 404ed because the forum doesn't exist anymore. But, I can see how it started: "It looks like they are sticking to their word about not changing classes very much. Wish they would listen more. Classes need to be reworked more than they think. I look forward to class improvement changes as much as getting new content. Maybe more! My wish list, as posted in....." It gets cut off there. Not trying to give myself a pat on the back. I just think its mind blowing how they didn't realize class design was so important yet some pleb like me did. It is also insane that they have been getting an enormous amount of valid feedback since LAST JANUARY and they still don't know what they are doing. The arrogance of these Devs is confounding considering how big of a failure BFA class design is. DK class design is hot garbage but the warcraftlogs look good so !@#$ it. lol. That is the mind set I've been seeing from Devs and some players and it sickens me.Diecruxx5 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 MOP Class design Can we have this back please. I would love to LOVE my characters again, I rather like them, but I would rather LOVE playing them again like I did in any expansion before WoD ruined everything regarding class designs. Sorry to the Devs who worked hard at pruning all my abilities, but I want them back; thanks. There is a reason for why I am promoting MoP Class designs; because it was the last time this game's classes felt decent. I would preference earlier expansions but MoP is a very decent compromise because it's what modern players know and are use too regarding the talent grid and all that game UI stuff.Härländ2 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Prot warriors in 8.1? Shamans got a blue; Here's to hoping Warriors get one. I won't make a massive OP, there's been tomes written on how broken prot was since earliest stages of BfA beta. It's common knowledge that warriors make up for under 5% of all tank representation after 2 weeks of Uldir, in ALL types of content; They're weak, they lack a niche, their kit has been massively hurt by the GCD change, and they need a lot of love to become viable. Like. Without exaggeration, it's easier to heal a shadow priest who pulls aggro in a dungeon, than a prot warrior in that same dungeon... Blizzard? Are you doing this one class at a time, or can prots hope for some love as well? Cause it honestly feels really bad when the most iconic tank in the game is just so far behind it's not even worth using any more...Lina374 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Azerite Items as a Hybrid My two main characters are monk and paladin, part of the reason I play both is that I can play them in all 3 roles and fill in as needed. I applaud you guys for the new azerite system to at least remove RNG from the equation somewhat. Hower, different spec traits need to be addressed. Many of the generic traits are what we would have to use to make the gear anything more than a stat stick, yet they are pretty lackluster for anywhere from 1-3 of the specs. As a tank it feels pretty bad taking a tidal surge instead of something to help boost my survivability, as a healer tidal surge also feels bad when i could use something to synergize with my healing. Tier 2 traits can be a pretty big deal surivability wise for tanking, but the same trait is not worthwile at all for dps or healing. Respeccing isn't an option, as playing all 3 specs makes the price out of hand quickly. The current way it works is just awkward, if you play a hybrid class, you get punished for actually filling all of the hybrid roles and wanting to play each one at the best of your ability. Solutions: 1. Put a cap on respec cost, somewhere in the neighborhood of 500-1000g. This way if we want to min/max there's still a cost but its reasonable 2. Have the traits work like talents or tier bonuses, where the traits are different depending on what spec you're in. 3. Vastly increase acquisiton of azerite gear so you have different azerite pieces per spec.Cahones13 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Stop nerfing classes plzzzz I hate reading posts about various classes in the game whether it's pve or pvp and them screaming for various nerfs. I played all of legion (a sh*t ton of it) and now still chugging along in BFA. Almost every single spec right now that's under performing, i can remember a time in Legion where it was considered "op". What makes this more egregious is the fact that most specs have remained unchanged since Legion, so why can't each spec go back to when they were most powerful? Examples from legion (specs that were strong and now are considered weak): Ele shams in pvp with icefury ele's considered trash in all content Prot warrior in legion launch (minus the raid wide leach stacking) Shadow priests in legion launch with surrender to madness (insanely fun) Enh shamans at the end of legion (insane single target dmg) WW monks at the end of legion (in all content) Sub rogues in tomb / also in pvp when they got reworked Ret aoe in legion was great (still was never top tier though) Frost dk dmg was absurd in pvp (which i think is fine, it was just too easy to pump out) etc, etc. you can prolly add more to that list. I don't want disc's to be gutted....i like that assassination rogue's are scary af, Demon Hunters only have 1 dps spec...i want it to be strong. Don't nerf blood dk's...buff the other tanks, a fully geared/experienced tank should feel immortal. (except for pvp, tanks in pvp suck). Frost mage slow should be a huge part of their identity they should give comparable slows to frost dk as well (chains of ice is 70 percent yes, but it's single target and costs runes). Etc, etc, etc. MAKE ALL SPECS FEEL STRONG. Last but not least, no matter what numbers you toon, some specs are never gonna be top tier in M+ because of their toolkit....give less represented specs some more utility.Tigermask4 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Lock Aff PvP-Thread 5 MONTHS old GG Blizz Update: Apparently getting an armor and stamina buff according to PTR. However if the video at is correct the stam buff won't matter much. Blizz, you need to explain the following: Healthstone CD UA Cleanse Non-Protection Tankiness, mobility? Let's try it with neitherDisclaimer: I know this is beta, I know things change, feedback based on current state – that is aftercall the entire purpose of beta testing. <- lol since I wrote this things have only gotten worse, love it. I know affliction has historically done well in arena, possibly too well at times. This feedback is purely about class survivability and sensical gameplay, if you have issues with afflictions offensive potential that would be a different thread. I used the exact amount of words I thought were needed to convey the information I wanted to, that is their purpose. If you feel my post is too long you are in no way obligated to read it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 OF 3 Cleanse Protection A snippet from Blizzard: “When we started to go down that road, we got some difficult to ignore feedback that Unstable Affliction being able to stack up multiple times on the same target was good uniqueness and flexibility, and that flexibility provided power in a way that was special to Affliction. For much of the spec’s history, it wasn’t good at burst damage or single-target damage, and being able to stack up to 5 Unstable Afflictions on the same target was actually a decent way to fix that.” This issue was already addressed, and in an unquestionably superior way – Haunt. Unstable Affliction was cleanse protection while Haunt allowed us to either frontload burst damage into a single target or cleave across the entire team, trading single target burst for more dot pressure via the haunt debuff. Also, we had to decide between using our shards offensively or defensively. Soulburn summoning circle could save your life, five haunts could end someone else’s. Why would we take a system that is richer and deeper, and best of all - makes logical sense, and trade it for the current model? Our cleanse protection is no longer cleanse protection, it is an incentive to cleanse! It was the same in Legion and BfA is making the exact same mistake. Why would a healer not want to cleanse all my UAs AND all my other debuffs, including a 10% increased damage debuff? Not cleansing UA means not cleansing the rest of my debuffs, not cleansing UA means empowering me to do MORE damage. If anyone at Blizzard feels healers are too scared of a 4 second silence and would rather their team take considerably more damage then I have some bad news, healers never got that message. So why is the conversation “How do we make UA dangerous to dispel but dangerous to leave up without it being unbalanced?” The conversation should be, and should have always been “Why would we take a soul shard spending burst tool, and a cleanse protection tool, and try to merge them together?” Haunt is so clearly the answer to this problem, and I can say that with confidence because haunt… used to be the answer to this problem! I mean just think about it: Option A: Haunt, does damage, has cast time, costs soul shard. Option B: Make cleanse protection cost a very finite resource, now our cleanse protection has far and away the lowest uptime out of all the debuffs its intended to protect, woops? Also make a target take more damage when they have your cleanse protection on them. Oh, and also make cleanse protection our highest most bursty spell. Great, now it does three things! Except well, it doesn’t do the first thing anymore, and since it doesn’t do the first thing anymore it can’t reliably do the other two things, so more often than not it does zero of the things. If only we had eggs we could have ham and eggs, if only we had ham. Also, Endless Affliction is a wasted talent slot, the last thing a Warlock would want in an arena is for UA to do the same amount of damage but take longer to do it. This talent would be great if the healer, for some baffling reason, wasn’t cleansing our dots on cooldown, or we got the old UA, the actual cleanse protection UA, back. As neither of those are the case presently, this is a useless talent. It makes our cleanse protection (I shake my head every time I have to type that) not only do less damage before it’s removed, but also makes UA even more enticing to cleanse, as a longer UA means a longer damage increase debuff. So, a talent that makes my UA do less damage and even further increases the reward to cleanse it? Thanks, but no thanks.Ganaanaa317 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 15, 2018 Cool/Fun Item Sets - Theory-crafting So I was wondering what good sets would be if we just make sets for the sake of fun. I am talking outside of the normal "This increases dps/hps" type of fun. Lets think out side the box. So I was speaking with my guildies and community in our joint raid and we came up with some fun ideas. Hope to hear what the community would think would be fun outside of the fighting world. 1. Wings. What if we had a set that gives you wings to glide with but on some type of cool down. This can be itemized via 2 rings or something like old xpacts (head, shoulder, chest). I would use this while traversing in the world content and would engage me more in world quests as my lock. 2. Speed Boots. Something to make us go fast. You removed bear tar tar imagine something to make us go really fast, while running. 3. Frog Hop. Sort of like if you take Krag'wa the Huge's leap ability to the literal maximum range but only on a once per X time use. Landing doesn't cause damage. 4. Air Currents - Create a current of air in front of you that would boost you in that direction. These things would be great.Plantains0 Nov 15, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 The State of Class Fantasy This is not a thread about class balance, per se. This is a thread about how well the classes are currently meeting their expected fantasy. I understand this is not what people are currently worried about, and that traditionally both players and developers have been more concerned with balance than they have been with fantasy. However, this has been and still is my top issue. As such I feel that before my subscription runs out in December I should probably mention it. The Priest As a Priest main I can say that Disc and Holy have still retained a strong sense of identity and purpose. Shadow, well... Legion just barely managed to capture it, and what's left is still mostly that, so I'll give the class fantasy itself a pass for shadow even though it just feels really underwhelming right now. Overall, has the Priest retained its class fantasy? Yes. Meanwhile Shaman is a mixed bag. First off, having 2 rows' worth of the 7 talent bars be the same across all 3 specs is lazy and homogenizes them. Again, homogeneity = balance, and people have wanted balance above fantasy for the entire history of the game, so I'm almost certainly wasting my time by putting all this time into making this thread. But I have to at least try. The Shaman Enhancement When thinking about an Enhancement Shaman, I have this image in my head of a hybrid melee dps-support class that uses buffs to enhance the durability/dps of themselves and others. Good examples of this would be Stoneskin Totem (removed), Strength of Earth Totem (removed), Elemental Resistance Totem (removed) or Wind Rush totem (which is shared by all specs). So right out of the gate the Enhancement Shaman is half of what I was hoping it to be, focusing on self-enhancement alone. Let's stay positive and focus on what's there. You have the four elements, Earth being burst, Fire being DoT, Wind being speed, Water being represented by a icey slow. Basic but effective. Do the talents add much? Outside of the level 100 talent bar, no. Not really. A slow, a charge, a stun. Most of it's just toying with what's already there, and there's not much there in the first place. Not good. Restoration Resto is actually meeting expectations. When I think of Resto Shaman I think of healing totems and focused AoE healing, and there does seem to be a good portfolio of talents and abilities to meet that expectation. There are talents to go single target healing, and that's fine, as long as it doesn't impede the bread and butter of the fantasy which as I said remains intact. If there's a single problem I have with Resto, it's actually the Flame Shock-Lava Burst rotation for the off-DPS. Elemental Elemental is bad. When I think of an Elemental Shaman I think of a high utility DPS that can do things like put totems down to serve as traps, snares, attrition, or AoE dps... And they have almost none of that. I was so happy to find that Earthbind Totem had survived the purge, because that feels like the last vestige of what Elemental Shamans used to be (which was actually a unique and fun identity for Elemental Shaman). I'm convinced that whoever was tasked with designing the Elemental Shaman wanted to play a Mage. Elemental Shaman is just a hybrid of the three Mage specs with electricity thrown in to keep it different. Single target mixed DPS rotation with some AoE thrown in. You can't even decide if you want to pursue AoE over single target, or totems over spells, the only choices you get are procs and number changes. Do you want something different? Well you can slightly alter that rotation to cast Lava Burst a little more often as opposed to Lightning Bolt, which effectively do the same thing! In the 5 talent bars that an Elemental Shaman has to work with to even be an Elemental Shaman, most of what's there is just stat changes and procs, just a bunch of "the same but better". Even the active cast talents are just doing the work of passives by empowering existing abilities! I can not conceive of how narrow-minded the development of Elemental Shaman has been up until now to get to this point, and the very idea that after 14 years of evolution we've ended up here is just insulting. Overall, has the Shaman retained its class fantasy? No. I've demo'd other classes since then to see if I was completely insulated from what was going on with the other classes. None of them seem to have it quite this bad, but then again Priest and Shaman are the only two classes that I actually have long term experience with.Juxu0 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Still waiting for those Blizzcon GCD changes Well? What's the update on the defensive and utility stuff you're taking a closer look at? Forgive my anxiousness, but this patch is running out of time.Varrow4 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Ion's Comment on Spec Tuning Hey all, I'd like to go ahead and talk a bit about Ion's comment on tuning low-performing specs. His first comment was that, sometimes, community perception can be more important than real numbers tuning. And that's completely true, players are never going to be perfectly informed, so they might form opinions that aren't well-founded. And, all of that especially applies to underplayed specs, where leaders may not have very much experience playing with them at all. His next comment is that the spec communities are doing themselves a disservice by telling others to reroll or by constantly memeing their own spec. And, that is also true to an extent. However, you have to realize that there's a reason that we tell people to reroll: we haven't really seen any kind of progress being made on our spec, which just leads us to believe that Blizzard either thinks it's ok, or that they are intentionally keeping it tuned the way it is because of something we players don't fully understand. Finally, he commented that Shamans are maybe only 2-3% behind other specs. This part really just hit the hardest, because it showed a disconnect in understanding >why< we are rallying for change. A lot of players would be happy with just upwards tuning, but the overall reason for our outcry is because we have mechanical problems that won't be easily fixed by just some numbers. Not to mention, saying a spec is only "2-3%" behind is almost unreasonable, now that auras exist. If there is any thought that a spec might be behind, then it should be addressed in the next hotfix; that kind of hesistation is exactly the thing that causes us to feel like we're being ignored. Also, I think it is important to note that any tuning concerns players have is not them wanting to be overpowered, it's more that they want to compete with the other top specs. People are told to reroll because the top specs are so incredibly far ahead that even when there is tuning, it seems to just be slight bumps to bottom specs that bring them closer to the middle (meaning, it would still have been in your best interest to have just gone and played a spec that was already at the top and already had a much more versatile kit). Speaking as an Ele player, here's a few of my concerns that just bumping the aura wouldn't address: 1) We're designed as a low-mobility spec, but do not have either of the countermeasures to address that weakness. We could either be made more beefy, allowing us to more easily "stand our ground". Or, we could be made slightly overtuned on "stand-still" DPS, with the expectation that we'd have events during the fight that would cause us to lose damage. 2) Our cleave DPS is awful, which hurts us a LOT in Mythic+, an environment where the spec should honestly shine. Any time the tank is pulling fewer than 4 targets, we're suffering for it. 3) Our AoE is amazing, but it is limited to stationary targets. As such, certain situations (i.e. any time the tank needs to kite) can really hamper what is really our only niche. 4) We don't really have any kind of interesting interactions in our kit, things that would help good players stand out against bad players. This is especially true on AoE, which ends up boiling down to two buttons with no procs. As far as our rework in 8.1, I don't really see anything that addresses these concerns, which we should have had months to outline and work with Blizzard on iterating through. I even wrote about my concerns with the currently planned rework (which effectively boils down to more LB damage and a T90 talent rework) in the megathread in this post: . It just feels like everything we bring up falls on deaf ears, and because of that, we end up hurting our own community perception by telling people to reroll to classes that are already in a good state. And, my spec is not the only one with concerns. I'd like to hear from other players outlining what their own concerns are.Omajarn68 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 PvP ladders - feedback New titles system is really nice. It's definitely better than Legion one. There is one problem though - a hole between Gladiator and Rank 1 is too big. Considering that top EU players are almost 3400 rated and Gladiator is 2400 and 50 wins over 2400 rating a typical glad is let's say 2450-2600 rated. He either has choice of giving up on push and playing other character as getting rank 1 is out of his reach or trying further. Keep in mind that there might be more Glads than Duelists this season as everyone who won 50 games over 2400 rating and was out of 0.1% of top players in the ladder will be gladiator. In my opinion there should be 1-2 more titles between rank 1 and gladiator or gladiator should be moved to 2800 or 2900 and something else should be added between duelist and gladiator. This will motivate players to still compete in the ladder after getting gladiator.Brodan0 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Balancing game - feedback Dear Blizzard, the way that you balance your game really worries me because it is extremely unfun for players. You tend to buff and nerf classes by huge marging - 30-40% what's not healthy for the game. Take a look at Arms Warrior, BM Hunter, Sub Rogue, Resto Druid, Arcane Mage - these specs were top at the beginning of the expansion but they got nerfed so much that we barely see them (Arms in Turbo/WMX and R Druid in specific comps). On the other hand you tend to overbuff classes like Feral and F DK in 7.3. This is not fun for players - I'd say it's frustrating. 1 season you play one comp with friends and next season your spec is completely not viable. I can understand that for casual player who just does low lvl M+ keys and random bgs this is not the problem because he can reroll but if you are serious PvP player (not a pro that plays 10 hour a day but someone who tries to master his class) it's just painful and tough. I main elemental shaman and this season my teammates tried to replace me few times for better spec because they were tired of tryharding in 3s. I love elemental shaman and I play it since Cata. I don't want to play any other spec, I don't want to be forced to reroll. I'd love you to buff and nerf classes by 3-5% but more frequently. Not by 30-40%. This way we will have more specs viable and many more players happy. Believe me devs it doesn't matter how fun and appealing mechanics are if your spec is not competitive. Of course there will be few players like my friend from EU Mgodx who is almost 3k rated as Demo warlock but it costs him hours of tilting, theorycrafting and dodging some comps that he doesn't have chances with. Your nerfs usually kill specs - like they did with Sub. Sub was broken because of Shuriken trait - more nerfs were not necessary. Arms - it was strong but not because of overall damage and utility - because of "Execute Charge" it got fixed but arms got extra nerfs anyway. BM is just not worth to play after nerfs like MM if there is such powerful Survival. What about Warlocks, Shamans and WW Monks? They are/were somehow viable only due to Broken traits but when you just nerfed them these specs are unwanted. Why didn't you make any 3-5% tuning changes every 1-2 weeks to even them out? This will make your community more happy and satisfied with your work. I can understand that you are busy and WoW is a huge game with a lot of content but such changes will show that you really want your customers satisfied. When they need to wait months for changes it makes them disappointed and they are very likely to unsub (what is probably the biggest reason why players unsubbed in BfA). Anyway I don't want to be whining guy who sees everything as bad I think you did a great job adding utility back to the game. I have grounding, tremor on my shaman. My friend has Hibernate, Soothe. It's more fun because you can outplay your opponents in arena and what's more you added mechanics in dungeons that require these abilities. It's just awesome. You just need to tune the game a bit more and BfA might be really amazing expansion with great PvP. I'll end with meme - but don't worry it's not offensive towards you but I find it accurate. Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Any changes coming for 8.1 Arcane mage? The lack of communication from Blizzard's side about Arcane has been really frustrating. The spec has so many core/talent/tuning issues and various bugs. It may be one of the top performers in PvE right now, but on the other side it's currently the 4th worst performing spec in 3v3. Here's some of the multiple feedback threads about arcane since beta: I can't be asked to spent hours to write down yet another Arcane thread, I just want to play the game, but it's been really difficult to do so lately. I'll keep bumping this one up, until some good changes come or at least we get acknowledged of our existence by a blue post.Vindecaytor22 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 8.1 Arcane Mage changes when? :) Worst design, most boring azerite traits and worst tuned spec in the entire game. Broken, bugged and ignored since BFA Alpha, still 0 changes...when?Vindecaytor2 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Frost Death Knight 8.1 - PvP Hello, my name is Teebufall, i main a frost Death knight over on EU. I've mained my Death Knight as frost since Cataclysm. I have always played a 2-Hand playstyle in PvP and rarely did PvE. I was waiting for 8.1 to see what's going on whit my class. Then the mention of Death Knights getting changes with 8.1 brought some relief - only to hear they are mainly looking into unholy?! Nothing about the frost death knights?! I get it. Frost does high damage in Mythic. But it is not my fault that blizzard can't balance talents whatsoever. 1 talents (Breath of Sindragosa), a 2 minute cooldown with some upkeep doing 25% of your damage combined with another talent (Frostwyrm) on a 3 minute but just 1 GCD loss doing another 10% of your damage. Since Legion i've lost my connection to my Death Knight. Blizzard forced a "Class/Spec Fantasy" of being a Fast paced melee being empowered by frost abilities. In Bfa however what do we even have tha tis fast paced? we do on average 1 ability every 1.7 seconds (42 APM). Where is the fast pace? Our playstyle was forced to be Cooldown Reliant, Heavy use of pillar of frost with icecap, a lot of resources from Empowered Rune Weapon for Breath of Sindragosa. Main usage of remorseless winter and upkeep with Gathering Storm. However with the Global Cooldown, and Empower rune weapon giving a total of 4 Runes and 20 RP over 20 seconds on a 2 minute cooldown. At certain moments you just don't want to use your cooldowns because you will lose your damage because of that global cooldown. -------- As i only Play PvP on my DK and mainly RBG. I hate my class. It's not fun seeing 40% of my damage being Frost fever. Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Passive Damage Design. Why? I would really like an explanation of why blizzard made auto attacks and passive damage, like dots, the top sources of damage. DKs are clearly the worst offenders, but I've noticed passive damage is a big part of class design with other classes as well. I really don't understand this design philosophy. I don't want DK to be the sole focus of this thread because other classes have this issue too, but DK is my main so I'm speaking from that perspective. FDK: Obliterate, Howling Blast, and Frost Strike do not feel impactful. I feel more like a rogue should, not a slow moving Juggernaut. Obliterate does nothing of the sort. It doesn't feel good to see rogues Eviscerate hitting harder than a plate sword wielding class using "obliterate!" I miss seeing health bars getting chunked down. FDK isn't supposed to be a melee warlock. UHDK: Why even have a 2h weapon? Melee, DoTs, and Pet damage are our main damage abilities. I have this huge sword equipped but Festering strike and Scourge Strike do not hit for anything relative to other damage sources. UHDK is more of a rot class so I don't expect to see players or NPCs to get their health chunked down like FDK but they should still hit hard with their active melee abilities. This design has a negative impact on both pvp and pve though the outcry from the pve community is lessened because dps parses look okay. Please explain why you think this is fun and makes sense? ThanksDiecruxx29 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Elemental in 8.1 Hey all, so I’ve heard many people talking about how they’re really hopeful for the changes coming to ele in 8.1. As such, I wanted to start a thread and discuss what kinds of things people are looking for - what is it that you feel the current Elemental is missing? Just to start it off, here’s my own list of changes I’d like to see. Note that I don’t think current ele really needs a massive redesign, just some fine tuning to make it as fun as it has been in the past. Core Rotation Just for a quick summary of what I’d like to see with the core rotation is: Make Lava Burst a fundamental part of the Ele toolkit – move echo baseline and make LvB directly interact with other abilities in your rotation. Additionally, add Lava Burst into the AoE rotation to create some more interesting gameplay. 1) Echo of the Elements going baseline: Lava Burst is one of the most iconic abilities of the spec (the only thing that could really compete with it is Chain Lightning). Pretty much all of my suggestions here will be focused around Lava Burst, and as such I think it is really time to make the ability have the modern design that having two stacks of an ability gives. 2) Master of the Elements going baseline and fire spells added (nature, frost, or fire): This would introduce the idea of “lava burst weaving”. That is, we’ll want to try our best to cast lava burst before every high priority spell (earthquake, earth shock, flame shock). Obviously, that won’t always be possible, but it would introduce some high-level gameplay for stronger players to min-max. Master of the Elements would be very similar in design to the old Elemental Focus, but would some distinct advantages: You only gain one stack instead of two – forcing the player to really think about what the best spell to buff would be whenever LvB is up. You gain the buff on-cast, instead of on-hit. With a lot of our highest priority spells being instant casted, this is an important difference that improves playability.Note: There’s also currently a bug with MotE where it does not work with Earthquake, despite it being a Nature school spell. 3) Introduce Lava Burst to the AoE rotation: Our current AoE rotation is a very dull build/spend rotation between CL and EQ – losing Lightning Rod removed an interesting proc that I think needs to be compensated for. Introducing Lava Burst to AoE would add a ton of new mechanics to play around, by bringing them over from single target. We’d get to play with lava surge procs, get to weave with master of the elements, and mastery scaling would benefit from adding a new builder that could scale in a more linear fashion (compared to Chain Lightning, where you get a new overload chance with each new target). To do this, I’d suggest something like the following: Lava Burst explodes upon hitting its target, hitting all nearby targets for 60%(?) damage and maelstrom gain. 4) Remove the Flame Shock Dependency for LvB's Guaranteed Crit: Flame Shock is already plenty high priority to stand on its own, between the damage and it triggering lava surge. Removing the crit allows us to Lava Burst targets that do not have flame shock on them, which would help the spec feel better when swapping targets. We’d then be able to decide whether or not to apply this DoT based on how long we expect the target to live, instead of it acting as a barrier for even casting LvB (e.g. if the target will survive about 5 seconds, it probably isn’t worth it, but if it will survive closer to 12 opening with a flame shock would be great – because flame shock already is a good ability). This was already a change we had expected to get in BfA, because it was there for almost the entirety of beta. It feels good to have, and hopefully we can get it reintroduced.Omajarn670 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Frost Mage Tips I've just been playing wow for about a month and I really want to get better at it but if anyone has any tips as to best rotation, tips on dungeons and especially raiding. Sick of being the weak link lol Any help greatly appreciated, thanks :)Medivaa1 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Latest Shaman PTR 28440 Okey dear devs. I clearly remember this post just over 4 days ago. Or maybe I just think I remember, but I really don't. "The changes above should help make the different choices on many talent rows much more competitive with each other. In addition to these changes above, we’re adjusting how many tooltips are generated. This may cause some websites to show that the damage or healing of almost every single Enhancement ability has changed. Do not panic; we are not lowering all of your damage and healing! This will be a behind-the-scenes data adjustment only." So what I see today? Wall of nerf notes to Enh Shaman base abilities. Do we have double standards here again or is the right hand doing something left hand don't know? Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 The state of Ret Paladin. I used to main ret in legion, I loved it! It was versatile, had great utility such as bop, freedom, and did decent amounts of aoe and single target damage! Sure, we had great damage advantages, but we also had plenty of mobility disadvantages, making us more balanced. Now we're just an average healers training wheels, and lets face it- nobody sees the need for a ret in m+ or pvp. The only situation I would bring a ret to a m+ is where I have a weaker healer, or on certain affixes like bursting/grievous. Sure I have saved a wipe from off healing, but we're the scuffed version of an off healer, we oom in 3 Flash of Light's, and lose a substantial amount of dps using word of glory. Today, I joined an rbg team on my ret (and i'm not a horrible pvper, not a rank one player, but have some modest achieves from legion), and I was the laughing stock of this 1800 group - "Hah, why would we have a Ret Paladin" "GG, we lose- we are carrying a ret". I will literally be in the midst of a team fight, and do the lowest damage of the group, even executing my rotation to perfection! So, if ret is garbage in pvp, and pve- why don't I see substantial buffs on PTR WoWhead notes for ret? Currently, on a single target fight, with on use burst trinkets, and wings, I will top dps meters for a solid 20seconds, pulling 25k dps at 368 ilvl. When i'm all out of holy power, there is a ridiculous down time, and I drop rapidly to the bottom of the meters. No, this isn't a post about how ret is the poor left out spec. I'm well aware that there are many specs that require attention, but being an ex-ret main, I am passionate about my class/spec, and would love to return to being a viable choice for any group. Some possible buffs: Make Blessing of Kings, and Wisdom available to multiple targets, not just two insignificant buffs. Give us a Blessing of Spell-Warding. Make the pvp talent for Blessing of Freedom speed increase, baseline. Make cleans toxins to all party members, baseline. Make Judgement multi target. Get rid of Retribution passive, it's stupidly situational and isn't a baseline, consistent damage buff. Besides, if your healer dies, and you're the only one who can cast a heal, I can promise you won't be focused on dpsing, you'll be focused on off heals. Reduce the CD of HoJ, and make that baseline, not a talent. Make the blinding light talent more of a viable choice. Now, i'm not saying we need all of these, but it's a desperate cry out for some attention. Ret needs some serious work. Paladin and Ret is one of the most popular classes/spec's in the game. If Blizzard really cared about their consumers, you think they'd want people to enjoy playing their favourite classes. Not the case with poor ol' Retti Spaghetti. Also, if you're posting and crying about ret being fine, you need to do some very easy research. I'd love to hear what changes you'd like to see happen to ret, hopefully we can get the attention from a blue poster, and feel heard. Yours Sincerely, The Spaghettiest Retti of all.Ayespy2 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 My Arcane Mage Wish List Replace Mana Shield with Master of Escape. Make Arcane Empowerment baseline with an addition to Reverberate to make Clearcasting function the current way it does (for free Arcane Explosions but only 1 charge). (EDIT: the reward of 5% bonus damage to Arcane Missiles per stack of Clearcasting granted by Arcane Empowerment won't be reliable enough in PvE to make use of effectively due to how Clearcasting procs compared to the pre-BfA system of 15%/30% chance per cast; to better reward the gamble with our max mana pool and the average time spent I'm proposing changing the damage buff to grant 15% bonus damage to the next 3 casts of Arcane Missiles if the Mage manages to stack Clearcasting up to 3 times before using them.) This will still mean Arcane Missiles needs a direct buff to its damage but it provides an extra incentive to the risk/reward of getting 3 Clearcasting procs without spending them prematurely. Add 3 charges of Clearcasting to Charged Up and move it to the lvl 90 talent row in place of Touch of the Magi and move Touch of the Magi to the lvl 60 talent row in place of Charged Up. Add an extra 2 Arcane Missiles to Amplification. Increase the maximum mana buff of Arcane Familiar to 20% and make Familiar's Arcane Assault spell deal splash damage to all enemies within 5 yards of the target. (This effectively defines Arcane Familiar to be a cleave talent primarily to supplement and support Arcane Explosion while also providing a small, long ranged addition to AoE damage befitting of the first talent row) Redesign Nether Tempest to be a carbon copy of Mark of Aluneth from Legion - add a 70% snare to the Nether Tempest debuff on the target like there was in both the Legion and BfA alphas. Buff the damage of Supernova by 255%. Replace Ice Ward with a single target crowd control called Prismatic Flash - 'Dazzles the target with a flash of blinding Arcane energy, causing them to wander about in confusion for 6 seconds, their next 3 melee swings within 20 seconds has an 80% chance to miss their target. - Instant. 30 yd range. 1 min cooldown.'. (Arcane lacks the level of crowd control variety that Frost and Fire bring to both PvE and PvP, Frost has multiple sources of single target and multi target abilities that apply Chilled to their enemies that is highly valued in dungeons as well as a second root with Freeze when they don't talent in to Lonely Winter while Fire has cc on all 3 Mage schools, Polymorph, Dragon's Breath and Ring of Frost with the first 2 being baseline, while Arcane gets access to Ring of Frost through talents all of its hard cc is both casted and classified as an Incapacitate effect thus they share diminishing returns, Polymorph is also on the Arcane school which Arcane needs access to for damage, shut down Polymorph and you shut down our damage at the same time, shut down Ring of Frost and you stop us being able to use Ice Block. Prismatic Flash gives us an alternative option for control and setup that brings us to a level playing field with Fire and Frost but requires us to choose between Ring of Frost for AoE hard cc and Chrono Shift for personal survivability and an AoE snare. Ice Ward is irrelevant due to being an inferior talent to Ring of Frost and DR'ing on itself, anytime it has ever been useful it has been better to take Ring of Frost because you can cast it from a safe distance and you still have Frost Nova regardless) Increase the Arcane Power buff from Time Anomaly to 10 seconds. Increase the radius of Arcane Explosion to 15 yards (was formerly Glyph of Arcane Explosion). (Simply put, 10 yards from the target is just not a big enough radius for a Mage to spend extended periods of time in in any BfA PvE content, mechanics and splash damage, as well as tank threat generation being lower means we easily can get chunked to near death in a second once we start bursting a trash pack down with Arcane Explosion; the increased range on Arcane Explosion that we had in Legion worked wonders in ensuring we were viable as an AoE spec in all but very very very high level keystones (beyond +15's)). (EDIT: Some AoE suggestions to tackle our shortranged AoE issues) Buff Arcane Explosion by 30% and Arcane Orb by 15%. Arcane Diffraction | 2.3 sec cast time | 2.5% of base mana - Strikes the target with volatile energy dealing (55% of Spell power) Arcane damage and ripples (45% of Spell power) Arcane damage to all nearby targets. Each Arcane Charge increases the mana cost of Arcane Diffraction by 100%, and reduces cast time by 8%. Generates 1 Arcane Charge. While talented in to Reverberate, modify Clearcasting to also effect the function of Arcane Explosion to be able to be cast on either a friendly or an enemy target up to 40 yards away, this way Arcane Explosion will still always have a priority benefit to be cast during AoE portions of a fight when we proc Clearcasting but can't get in range to use Arcane Explosion safely without the proc.Failedwizard52 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Unsub or shut up Seriously. Yeah the game sucks now for most us that have been around to see the ups and downs of wow but everyone needs to either shut up or unsub. By hitting them where It hurts most (their pockets) will anything be done to save the game. So stop the crying about the multitude of things wrong and hit them where It hurts. Unsub, go outside for a few weeks, go to the gym or do whatever is to keep your mind off the game till they fix It. Oh and don’t forget to votePerifery39 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 Please dont wait for EXP Changes! People have time to level alts now before 8.1. Hotfix the Experience changes NOW so people have something to do the next month and get some alts leveled!Mattshifts3 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 The importance of class design. For the last few expansions, Blizzard has shifted their design philosophy in a completely different direction. They've started stripping away difficulty and complexity from specializations by removing abilities, synergies and downside effects from offensive and defensive cooldowns(like Divine Shield reducing your damage by 50%). Overall mosts classes rotations has come down to very few buttons. The mechanical skill ceiling has being brought down a lot, as well as the entry basic skill requirements for new players or when trying out a new class. Instead the game difficulty has been shifted into content(dungeons, raids, etc) by making more complex mob/boss mechanics, while also lessening the importance of gear requirements. Most of these changes might be good on paper to increase the game's accessibility to a broader audience. But in practice, that requires an extremely good execution, and this is where Blizzard has been failing. If you want to make most spec's rotation consist of 4-5 spells, then all of these spells MUST have some sort of synergy with the spec and they MUST feel impactful when used(3k incinerates do not feel good). This mainly comes down to proper tuning for EACH INDIVIDUAL spell, instead of buffing/nerfing specs across the board with lazy percentage auras, that affect every spell of a specialization. Also specs should have a good flow of their baseline rotations, WITHOUT the need of taking certain talents to make them less clunky. TALENTS SHOULD BUILD UPON THE SPEC, NOT COMPLETE IT! Every spec should have weaknesses, but not to the extreme. Priests having no baseline mobility unless they spec into a talent, warlocks having only gateway every 2minutes for baseline mobility or mages having no stuns or self sustain, these examples are unhealthy and unfun. Core mechanics like these should be owned to some extent by all specs BASELINE, otherwise specs do not feel complete and PvP turns into rock/paper/scissors. Blizzard has to realise that class design is the most important thing in a RPG, no matter how much content there is, if you're not having fun on your character, everything else is boring as well. Besides that, the learning experience of how to play your character in different situations, is simply the best content with the best longevity. Raids and dungeons might have difficult mechanics. But they are static, once you learn them, they become simple to complete. And no design team can produce enough content fast enough, for such a massive playerbase. A very good example of this is Black Desert Online, a game with many many downsides and issues. But it's solely carried by few things: Its graphics, proffession/life skill systems AND its extremely fun, fast paced and skill intensive combat. I myself played it for almost 6000 hours solely for the learning experience of my class and PvP. This just goes to show how important class design is. ... TLDR: Fun classes with high skill ceiling > any other content.Vindecaytor52 Nov 14, 2018
Nov 14, 2018 New PTR is out, guess what didn't get nerfed Rogues and DH. Yey!Ashenan17 Nov 14, 2018