Tides of Vengeance PTR General Discussion

1d Mythic+ Azerite Armor Improvements Throughout the discussions regarding Azerite Armor, there’s been a lot of talk about how you earn Azerite pieces from Mythic+ dungeons. Players have told us – and we agree – that the process of earning Azerite Armor through Mythic+ feels overly based on luck, and that there isn’t enough control in the players’ hands. Even with our bad luck protection systems in place, the sheer number of potential Azerite pieces you can get from the weekly chest means that trying to get ahold of a specific piece feels hopeless. That’s a problem we want to solve, and give you some control over the Azerite gear you earn through Mythic+. So here’s what we’re working on for Tides of Vengeance: First, we’re adding a new (as yet unnamed) currency, which you’ll earn from your weekly Mythic+ chest as well as from scrapping (or disenchanting) epic-quality Azerite Armor. This currency is rewarded in addition to the item in the chest (which can no longer be an Azerite piece), and the amount you earn will scale up based on the highest level Keystone you’ve completed. For example, completing a level 10 Keystone will reward you with about three times as much as clearing a level 7. Similarly, scrapping higher-item-level Azerite pieces will give you significantly higher amounts of this currency than lower-level pieces. To spend that currency, we’re bringing back an old friend: Thaumaturge Vashreen. He’ll have two main types of items for sale. The first are caches that reward a random dungeon Azerite Armor piece for a given slot (helm, shoulders, or chest). They’ll be separated out by item level as well (at 355, 370, and 385), with higher item level caches requiring significantly more currency to purchase. But we recognize that with six or more options per slot, this may still not be enough control for high-end players who want to be able to work towards a specific piece that perfectly complements their build. Thus, Vashreen will also offer Item Level 385 versions of the specific dungeon Azerite Armor pieces for each class, sold at a premium. We’re still nailing down the exact numbers, but our goal for tuning this new currency is that you’ll be able to purchase one of the Azerite caches that lines up roughly with the item level of the gear you’re getting from your Mythic+ runs every two or three weeks, with the specific 385 pieces as long-term goals for top players. Overall, we believe that this change will improve things in a lot of different ways: Mythic+ players of all skill levels will now have a clear path to upgrading their Azerite slots High-end Mythic+ players will have a way to target specific Azerite pieces to optimize their setups Duplicate or unwanted Azerite pieces from other sources (such as raiding) now have some additional value The piece of gear in your weekly chest will have a more reliable item level You should see all of this hitting the Tides of Vengeance PTR sometime in the next week or so. We really do appreciate your feedback, and believe that this, in addition to the new traits and other improvements coming to the Azerite system in Tides of Vengeance, will help ease a lot of the concerns about Azerite Armor in Mythic+ and as a whole.Lore500 1d
Sep 28 Welcome! Please read. Welcome to the Tides of Vengeance PTR General Discussion forum! This forum is here to provide you with a friendly environment where you can discuss the Tides of Vengeance PTR with your fellow World of Warcraft players, and give feedback on changes currently in testing. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy, so we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct (http://us.battle.net/en/community/conduct) and guidelines (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/15252595157) before posting. Important Reminders: Search The search function at the top of the World of Warcraft community site is extremely effective and robust. Before you create a new forum topic, please be use it to search for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer for which you are looking. Making a new thread on an existing subject can result in your thread being deleted or, if you continue to re-post the same content, the loss of your forum privileges for spamming. Rating The forum rating system can be used to promote positive discussion, demote unhelpful comments, and even report posts that violate the forum Code of Conduct. By hovering over a post you'll be presented with several options, including a "thumbs up" (Like) icon. Clicking the "thumbs up" icon will rate the post up. You can also quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of a violation. Please note that you can only rate each post once. Use your power wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community. Guidelines In addition to the forum Code of Conduct (http://forums.battle.net/forum-coc.html), here are some common courtesy guidelines to follow. While these do technically fall within the bounds of the Code of Conduct, these cover more specific examples of common errors that will lead to thread deletions or posting privileges being revoked. The World of Warcraft forums are for discussion of topics directly related to World of Warcraft. The forums here are specifically to discuss the game and related topics. Any topics not related to World of Warcraft, Battle.net, or Blizzard Entertainment are subject to deletion. Don't post in all capital letters, use a misleading title, excessive punctuation, and/or non-standard symbols, etc. While everyone wants their posts read, we ask you to refrain from using these types of tactics in order to bring more people to your thread. Let your post stand on its own merit. Threads violating this guideline are subject to deletion. Using the words "Blizzard," "Blue," or any community team members' names in a thread topic is frowned upon. Everyone would like Blizzard to read and acknowledge his or her post, and we understand that; however, use of such words in the subject line does not help that come to pass. Please make your thread title relevant to the post subject. Threads violating this guideline are subject to deletion. Posting "First" or IBTL ("in before lock") constitutes as spamming. You will be suspended if you create a post that is intended to call out that you achieved a specific reply number in a thread. This is considered spamming. Posting IBTL ("in before the lock") is not helpful, and if you feel a thread should be moderated please use the rating button to do so. Do not "bump" posts. The act of posting simply to bump a thread is considered spamming. This also includes bumping very old threads for no reason (called "necro bumping" or "necroing"). Petition posts are frowned upon. These are discussion forums and, as such, we ask that you hold discussions. Creating a thread to ask for replies as votes is not a discussion. Threads violating this guideline are subject to deletion. Do not post about locked or deleted threads. Posts that are moderated have a reason behind the moderation. It's up to you to read the forum Code of Conduct and these guidelines to determine what you did wrong, learn from your mistake, and attempt to post again without breaking any rules. There is also cool down period we institute during times of high forum traffic. If you are violating policy during one of these times due to frustration, you will be given a three-hour cool down suspension. This does not get logged on your record and is simply in place to keep the forums readable and civil. Serious violations will still have the appropriate action taken against them as documented in the Code of Conduct, and we do keep track of these cool down periods separately—if one is found to be repeatedly violating policy, appropriate action will be taken.Kaivax0 Sep 28
6m M+ Currency...what about the rest of us? So, I have a question. Y'all seem to be working on the problems with the Azerite gear system...at least for those of us who run Mythic+ dungeons. That's fine. What about those of us, who don't want or like to run dungeons or raids? What about those of us who want more content for the outside world that was so beautifully created by your team? What about those crafters among us who have been waiting, hoping and wishing for the devs to fix, or more importantly redesign the crafting systems to make crafting more immersive and engaging, and make crafted items on par with any loot that drops in the game? Why does a high item level piece of gear have to have mats come from dungeons and/or raids, that some of us may not like doing at all? Personally, I see it as a way to force those like me who love crafting to do dungeons that honestly, I have no fun running. When does our good news come? Also, this is directed to the devs of this game. I am being sincere in my concerns for this game, because right now there's nothing that I enjoy in this game outside of leveling lowbies. My main toon right now is sitting in Tradewinds doing nothing, because I don't like dungeons, raids or warfronts, but I loved the land of Suramar in the previous expansion.Ogan22 6m
9m Azerite Armor Currency. Is it enough? While I think the idea of azerite armor currency is a step in the right direction, I do, however, have some considerable amount of concerns for the proposed changes in 8.1. I have compiled a few of my concerns as well as the concerns I have seen from other players on the forums in this list below. Feel free to add your own ideas and any constructive criticism below. 1. We will lose a sense of community associated with trading azerite armor pieces (which we recently got the ability to do in the first place). With the proposed change, players that do not have their best in slot azerite pieces will, inherently, hold onto all the azerite armor they receive to scrap them into the new azerite currency. So even though a piece might be best in slot for another player, another player can choose not to trade this item to them to further their own character progression. This creates a rather negative, toxic environment. This will change the feeling of “We Are Progressing Together” into “I Need to Progress Myself”. A possible solution to this, the first time an azerite armor piece is traded to another player, it will give you the scrap azerite currency to you. That may be asking a bit much in the coding department but it would prevent this negative aspect associated with the change. 2. Players will only do a M+10 on the week and then nothing else for the rest of the week. On the flip side, those that do only M+s (ie, no raiding, no pvp, etc) will receive no rewards all through the week as they grind harder content. This does not encourage players to continue to play this mode any more than they must. A solution I’m seeing thrown around is to allow the azerite currency to drop from the end of the dungeon chest for M+s. Some players are even suggesting having a weekly cap on how much azerite currency one can get from the end of dungeon M+ chests. To inject my bias here, if Blizzard allowed for the currency to drop in M+s, the prices of the gear will just be increased to compensate for the increased amount of azerite currency being given to players (so it seems like a lose lose for the players). A better solution, in my opinion, is to just allow for azerite armor to drop at the end of M+ chests. 3. Depending on how the numbers work for the currency, since we don’t know yet, this may force hardcore and semi hardcore players to farm M0s, LFRs, and world quests just to get azerite armors to scrap. From an RPG standpoint, why are players being forced to do lower, easier content when they should be getting more powerful in order to do harder content? It seems odd that a M0 will give you a potential currency for your character but a M+2 will not. It also seems at odds with the idea of a rpg. 4. Is this really any different than live? It takes about 2-3 weeks to receive an rng azerite item from our weekly cache. The new currency allows you to get a rng azurite armor piece every 2-3 weeks, according to Lore’s post. No, it is not different. It’s just the same system painted with a different color. One might argue that the ability to specifically target a 385 azerite piece is different from the current system, and it seems like it is different. So that is a quality of life change for the better; however, is it enough? We won’t know until the numbers come out for the currency itself. 5. We need a PvP vendor as well. I don’t know enough about this to make a concise point here so feel free to make one below but it is a concern being thrown around frequently from the PvP community. 6. Just a feeling but it feels like they didn’t really listen to the player base but rather reacted to the loss of subs. If you've made it this far, thank you for reading and please discuss and give positive feedback so we can get this right.Morphasis1 9m
36m Can we deny quests yet? As a member of the Horde why am I sent out to kill the traitorous narcissist known as Saurfang, but am then forced to help him? Warchief wants him dead, here's a couple quick sentences from a traitor that will completely change your mind, and now you suddenly murder your allies. What? This isn't just bad storytelling, this is Steven Universe levels of storytelling. I know that technically we can deny quests but that doesn't actually do anything but deny xp/quest rewards. It doesn't affect the overall story or my overall story. I don't want to play out this story, this is not what my character would do.Leyesh6 36m
39m The new Azerite Currency should Drop from M+. The problem I see is that people will be enticed to do regular Mythic 0's to get azurite to scrap for currency. But I think the BETTER content that should be rewarded is M+ not M0's. So adding the currency at the end of M+ will make it more lucrative to do than doing M0's for a chance at azurite. Two Ideas: Have Currency drop from chest at the end of a M+ run. There could be a weekly cap so you can't farm forever. 2nd idea is to have a M+ weekly (similar to Island Expeiditons) that rewards you with currency for having completed however many M+s that week. Perhaps there is a weekly for 50 Azerite Tokens. And doing 10+ rewards 10 azerite tokens at the end. A M+5 rewards 5. and M+2 rewards 2. A Mythic Zero...rewards ZERO... but has a chance at that azerite piece. So you do 5 M+10 dungeons a week for cap of 50 azerite Tokens for the Weekly. Rewarding M+ rather than M0's.Felera33 39m
1h Petition for Night Elf Paladins 8.1 I don't know what all transpires in Night Warrior other than people are angry about it and Night Elves get cool black eyes afterwards (and please don't spoil it here for those of us that wan't to play it blind) but I personally would love to be able to change my Paladin to a Night Elf. We already had 2 (one of them I guess technically wasn't a Paladin but he was a follower that could go into combat with you) Night Elf Paladins in Legion as part of the order hall campaign. One of them literally became a Paladin in front of you. Anyone else in support of this?Crypticghoul17 1h
2h remove azerite gear its literal garbageGlitters1 2h
2h Alliance Purge Squads in Vol'dun. Why? Why is the Alliance trying to exterminate the vulpera? They aren't even Horde. I could understand slaughtering Forsaken or other Horde races as revenge for Teldrassil, but the vulpera literally haven't done anything to us. EDIT: Why is the Alliance limiting civilian casualties in Zuldazar if we're "purging" Vol'dun? Consistency would be nice. ...Ershan92 2h
4h New azerite traits for fury i was recently testing out the new azerite traits for fury and they both feel like they dont proc as much as they should especially the dot with bloodthirst, i even geared myself more towards crit to help out with the bloodthirst trait and even with 19% crit around 1-15 bloodthirsts would crit and apply the dot, as for the rampage granting reckless i was getting around 1 every 2 minutes or so i feel like the proc rate may be a little bit too low for those 2 traits to be viableAlûcárd0 4h
5h Azerite: A Great Start & Some Criticisms... Alright. I want to start with the good... This is a great step in the right direction. This is what happens when you speak up and put pressure on the developers to make changes. This shows they are at least paying attention to these issues. Which is good. However, I think the recent changes need a little bit of iteration... I have a few concerns centered around this piece of the post "We’re still nailing down the exact numbers, but our goal for tuning this new currency is that you’ll be able to purchase one of the Azerite caches that lines up roughly with the item level of the gear you’re getting from your Mythic+ runs every two or three weeks, with the specific 385 pieces as long-term goals for top players." This actually means a few things: - You are disincentivised from buying lower ilvl pieces. If you are buying 370 pieces for example while farming +10, it will delay you getting your 385 by about a month. Assuming you are going for a random one... This gets worse when you realize that the first 385 piece you buy will quickly be rendered useless shortly after you buy it with the ilvl hike. To prevent people from pooling expect a bump in costs and currency income (via +15s becoming the cap in all liklihood) with the new raid. - Farming Heroic after you no longer need it as a Mythic raider is a thing again(Normal for Heroic raiders). Even going back and doing old content once the new raid drops will be a thing. Not something I am interested in doing. You also now are disincentivised from trading any Azerite you get in favor of getting more tokens. This is degenerate gameplay and encourages very selfish behavior. - Assuming it takes 2-3 weeks to get a RANDOM cache, expect the higher end pieces to take even longer... Think closer to a 4-6 weeks (if I had to guess) if the cost was a small . That means 4 months to build your set. If the premium is too small, then the premium doesn't mean anything. - This is so expensive and it takes so long to get the armor you need, that choice is still a non-factor regarding your armor slots. You still can't treat those slots as Modular. You still can't change them up depending on the content you're doing, let alone when you change specs. You equip your highest ilvl piece and just play or pay out the !@# to Respec it. By the time you fill out your main set (quite a while) it will take just as long to fill out future sets. Simply put: I do not think that scrapping Azerite gear should give you this currency. It should come from activities that give you Azerite gear (as long as they are current, so when the new raid drops, Uldir should no longer drop this currency), with the Azerite gear itself being a bonus if you aren't going to equip it. That means that the gear you get from raiding can be traded to friends without feeling like you're giving your personal progression up(not a great feeling). The other large issue that remains to be solved is the non-modular nature of the slot. You can't really change between say different sets depending on the affixes, dungeon, or boss you're doing. It takes so long to "collect" the sets, that it is more time efficient to just roll another copy of your character and collect your sets in paralell for each spec (or maybe even for each type of content). Imagine leveling 3-4 different rogues and using them to gear out different playstyles WITHIN a spec. The non-azerite slots aren't difficult to get up to an acceptable level relatively quickly. Azerite pieces are the choke. Imagine M+ teams pushing with Rogue 1 on Tyrannical weeks, Rogue 2 on Fortified weeks, and Rogue 3 on specific dungeons. All owned by the same player. That is what this system will lead to unless the acquisition rates are not as steep. Imagine a Druid player being incentivesed to level a Guardian, an Resto, and a Feral and swapping between them depending on what they want to play... that doesn't sound fun. Now, I am not a proponent of "Just throw loot at people" and "Wellfare Epics". Quite the opposite. However this is the system that's been built, and we're trying to make the best of it. I would err towards over-rewarding loot instead of creating degenerate gameplay incentives. Ion said that he doesn't want us "Swimming" in Azerite gear, and that you should feel less powerful in offspecs. There has to be some sort of middle ground though, or we are stuck with something where choice still doesn't matter.Shinrael9 5h
8h Raid Flavor: Don't forget it's a city At the start of the expansion, comparisons of Dazar'alor and Boralus noted Dazar was more grand/majestic but Boralus was more convenient as a city functionally. With the PTR, it becomes apparent this was partly due to the layout being set up to support the raid. When we raided Orgrimmar in MoP, it had a bit of flavor, NPCs we recognized, mobs in the bank and vendors we could rescue, the warlock summoning demons fighting guards in cleft of shadow, etc... While Dazar'alor was probably designed to be a raid, I hope they keep some of the same flavor. Let the dock merchants in Zuldazar get involved, what's it like in "Little Tortolla" in the raid? What about the Amani, Farraki and other tribe-Speaker areas? What can blizz add to really make the raid lively and interesting?Skytotem0 8h
9h Azerite Gear Trading - Gone Does Blizzard realize they are essentially reverting the tradeability of azerite gear with the currency coming from scrapping/DE'ing those pieces? Was this purposefully an influence they wanted to introduce with the change? While you give a single player a greater ability to farm for a single piece every 2-3 weeks, you now take away their ability to have had an azerite piece traded to them in raids and M0's.Ðiesël6 9h
9h DK PVP changes? https://www.wowhead.com/news=287890/patch-8-1-ptr-28048-class-changes-monk-pvp-talents According to this post, DKs are losing Unholy Mutation and Heartstop Aura. Unholy Mutation is most always my second source of damage in Pvp, so I have no idea why this is being removed. Dks feel terrible to play in arena right now -- they need MORE help, not LESS. I know this is PTR and subject to change, but what is going on? Dks need some serious help in arena. They have awful mobility, awful survivability, no meaningful CC (thanks for changing Asphyx from 6s to 4s in BFA and adding 15s CD on top of it). There is no reason to bring a DK to arena, and this makes it even worse. Fix this please.Khones3 9h
11h 2700x Multithreaded benchmarking for 8.1 Hey hey, I've been looking for some info to see if anyone has bench marked it, with the 2700x, with the new multi threaded support. I've been looking on reddit/wowhead/these forums and seen nothing. Any info would be awesome as I'd rather not spend nearly double on the 9900k when the 2700x fits most of my needs. Cheers!Nazstyle3 11h
11h BUFF BM For the love of baby HEY ZUS Everyone in the entire game, and I mean EVERYONE knows you over nerfed BM in pvp.. Please buff them to correct it.Colvín10 11h
12h PTR Primal Instincts I've noticed that Primal Instincts is not present anymore on my gear in PTR and has been replaced with Dance of Death. Is this actually a proposed change in 8.1? I can only presume so if it's on the PTR If so why would you removed one of the better designed traits? It gives the player choice, can change your opener and is not overpowered. It's a well designed trait and not just another random effect.Lock1 12h
12h A step in the right direction and what's next First, I'd like to say thank Blizzard for reacting to our feedback and adding an azerite vendor in the game for 8.1. One of the major selling points of an MMORPG is the sense of achievement and progression. While this change does not fix all of the problems currently present in the game, it atleast shows us that you care about our feedback. However, there are still 3 main issues that I've seen popping up alot recently on both the forums and reddit. The Global Cooldown change The first issue is the GCD change. While I do understand why you did it (to stop cooldown stacking on a single button via macros), the result of that change makes most classes feel clunky and unenjoyable compared to Legion. To fix that problem, you could revert the changes and make big cooldowns (45 sec+ CDs) share a global cooldown. That would pretty much make the combat much smoother while still stopping cooldown stacking on one button. Warforging and Titanforging Oh boy, this topic is a heated one. Personally, I don't like being given random pieces of loot as it often feels like I don't deserve them. However, I can understand the appeal. A way to make that system less RNG reliant and frustrating would be to add a currency that allows you to warforge then titanforge your gear as a form of upgrade. While you would still be able to receive random titanforged items, it would atleast give us a reliable way to get the titanforged pieces that we want without having to rely on RNG. The removal of Master looting This change is the one that personally hits the hardest. As a mythic raider, it feels incredibly frustrating to not have the agency to distribute loot to whoever needs it the most. It was a form of group progression that is completely gone now. While it does effectively nerf split runs heavily, you shouldn't punish everyone because of the top 1%. In pickup groups formed via the LFG tool, personal loot is fine but you should give guilds the option to use Masterlooting if they wish to. Ninja looting is an unfortunate flaw of the system but again, you shouldn't punish the majority because some troll (Looking at you Asmongold) decided to steal the loot.Yhormm9 12h
13h Tides of Vengeance on PTR and... Why I still have this feeling that Beta for Azeroth is still on Early Access?Wildsong3 13h
14h They tried to wake me up back in 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g79dWuqXe5o "It's a game full of these tiny little tricks to please your brain. That's why it's so restrictive; that's why they don't allow you to trade items. If they allowed that, you'd avoid too many of the little pleasing brain tricks they've stuck in there." Sounds familiar? Danny and Andy told me what was the deal and I thought 'huh, dummy people. Lucky that's not me!' PS: Someone post the vid on GD.Grazolkarr0 14h
14h Please let DEing reward Expulsom As a player who has had both tailoring and enchanting for the last 13 years of playing WoW, they have always worked pretty well together until this expansion. I would love to craft some high level gear for myself but in order to keep up on enchanting demands of my guild, I have to DE every item I get which means I have received very, very little expulsom this whole expansion so far. Can disenchanting please have the same chance as scrapping to reward expulsom?Ignorant7 14h
15h NightWarrior's humiliating, lost will to play I shouldn't have to struggle to figure out a way to play that isn't emotionally draining. I used to use this game as a safe haven against my OCD, and now it's literally a source of stress. I can't even reroll to a race that feels less like it's a punching bag because I'm a druid. As long as I sit here and look at my Night Elf's back, I'm just thinking about the next time I'm going to get creamed. I have no hope for the future. I know this isn't intended, but this patch legitimately feels like targeted humiliation. The fact that we were literally victims of genocide last patch, and now cannot even manage to run in, grab a couple corpses before they are violated, and get out is disgusting. We aren't even allowed to care for our dead. Do you realize how bad that is? We are being denied the most basic form of dignity. It is such a small win we're asking for, Blizzard. Just the smallest balm to our wounds. Am I supposed to feel good about this? Am I supposed to feel cool doing this, like anyone playing a game like this should? What's the purpose of playing a fantasy game if it only serves to make me feel bad? Not only feel bad, but feel bad for the entire breadth of this expansion so far alongside what comes in the future with 8.1? The genocide of the Night Elven people should have been the end. That is PLENTY horribleness to go around. And now you think we need even more losses? There's such a thing as tragedy fatigue. Maybe your writers should learn about it. There's only so much kicks in the teeth the human mind can take before it stops being compelling and starts being abuse, and we're forced to put the book down and read something else. When I first heard about the new Night Warrior scenario and eyes, I jumped at the change to roll a Night Elf Priest. Now that I've learned all that NW accomplishes, that's it's little more than a wet noodle palette update, I've lost the desire. Even when I'm supposed to win, I lose. As cool as the eyes look, they are now a symbol for failure. Even trying to play Horde feels like garbage. I don't think you guys realize genocide isn't something we can just muscle through and forget about... The Blood Elf Outlaw I spent the entirety of Legion maining is in the dust right now because I can't bear to play her under Sylvanas. I'm being pushed out of this game, Blizzard. And you need to do something about it.Kaleesh160 15h
15h No Kadala RNG Please I worry the new system will be RNG rewards for massive amount of time spent and currency. Thoughts?Foresworn1 15h
16h Oh god I'm going to be sick. Spoilers watch out! Saurfang is conspiring with Shaw. That's a real punch in the gut Blizz. First Saurfang deliberately fails his own objective in the War of the Thorns. Second he abandons us in the middle of a battle. Third he refuses to return to the Horde when we desperately need him. Fourth he starts working with the Alliance THEN YOU MAKE US SIDE WITH HIM?!?!?!?! I want to cut Saurfang to bits, throw those bits into a blender, make a nice Orc smoothie, and pour it on the floor of Grommash hold in front my Warchief who doesn't run and cry the second people do things they don't like.Onotay102 16h
17h Moonglaives; Symptom of the Product Pipeline https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=164966/glade-wardens-glaive&bonus=5124:1532 Not long ago, fears about moonglaives becoming classified as warglaives were expressed on the forums. At the time, no information had yet been released, though I believe at the time, the reporting on WoWhead suggested that this was going to be a 'night elf glaive', which set off people's fears. That fear seems to have realized itself. https://www.wowhead.com/news=287356/patch-8-1-weapons-night-elf-forsaken-blood-elf-zuldazar-raid-naga The trouble with this is not just that night elf warriors, hunters and rogues have been denied their racially iconic weapon, this also means that, unlike the Horde, demon hunters will not be receiving a true racially iconic warglaive, such as in the image below. https://i.imgur.com/NfYQPkR.png Blizzard certainly has the right idea by having Warcraft III themes be so prominent in this patch. I really love the look of it. More and more, though, I'm detecting this worrisome trend where the fantasy of Warcraft III is played out by the NPCs, with a fundamental disconnect with the PCs. Of all the problems anyone might have with 8.1... This? Really? Alright, hear me out here. The problem that I'm trying to point out here isn't the warglaive. It is how we got to the point where a moonglaive was commisioned, how it exchanged hands through several employees and, by the end, the intent of the moonglaive as a racially iconic weapon, was lost in the translation to an in-game reward. Imagine this situation. You commission the moonglaive; you know that, not only will the NPCs be using it, but the players have wanted this weapon since vanilla. So, you pass it through to the art department. You're also sure to add the tags 'night elf PvP reward' and 'NPC weapon'. After the artists make half of the models, someone else in the organization gets an incomplete list of assets. This person is a game designer responsible for PvP rewards. They take a look at the assets and they assign which model gets used for what and what models still need to be developed. Keep in mind, whoever designs the PvP rewards is fundamentally not in charge of quest design, at all. They see the word 'moonglaive' and they think, "Oh, yeah, of course, warglaives. D'oh." and they mark it in the excel sheet as "DH pvp weapon" and mark it as "Done" in the backlog. When the art department asks what assets still needs to be developed, the PvP rewards designer gives them a list of weapons that haven't been designed yet. For example, the 1-H swords for the night elves are still missing, so better get on that. Warglaives? Oh, no, don't worry about that, we got that covered. That story? It may not be the real thing, but I imagine that is more or less how it went down. Assets were passed down, with a rich history. But the memo that this weapon was intended for warriors, hunters and rogues was never attached, because everyone either assumed it was obvious or didn't think it was important enough to include as a memo or didn't think the moonglaive could be confused as a warglaive. And now that it's implemented in the PTR, everyone just shrugs and quotes the deadlines that have to be met, so it's marked as "don't fix". That. That right there. That is the problem. There is an intent to help players tell their stories, but it is ultimately lost in production pipeline and not fixed, because there's deadlines to meet and other stories to tell.Lakyle600EAD14 17h
17h problem with the New Azerite gearing system ill first start by saying i like the fact that you are adding a currency/vendor for the azertie gearing system in mythic plus. the problem i see with it is that for most people i believe they are going to just hold on to their currency until they can buy the highest iLvL one they can get for their "best in slots". because why spend this currency on something that is sub par when i can just get BiS a few weeks later, also why spend/waste this rare/ hard to come by currency on a token that is random. this will mean people will just be using their mythic 0 azerite gear for weeks and weeks and weeks until they can save up enough currency to buy the highest iLvL one. this in my opinion does not feel like a good solution. my solution would be to have everyone have to farm/get the azerite gear they want from mythic 0 and then have the currency be able to be spent on an upgrade token that would increase the iLvL of an azerite gear that drops from mythic 0 dungeons by 15 iLvL.you would have to buy a total of 3 tokens in order to get a piece of gear up to max iLvL. This would allow for a small increase in power from week to week instead of a huge jump in power every 3-5 weeks.Thaherb0 17h
17h Things we need for PvP. 1. Conquest and Honor points/badges "Maybe change the name of current Honor or the currency so it's not the same." 2. PvP Vendors at the Dueler's Guild which will cause players to actually participate in it. 3. PvP Power and Resilience on the gear, have the same amount of power and resi to even out the percentages, forcing PvP players to actually farm and equip PvP Armor. 4. Remove PvP scaling.Blayser0 17h
17h Blood Elf Heritage Armor Feedback I'd like to create this thread to give feedback on the Blood Elf heritage armor recently datamined. https://www.wowhead.com/news=287980/patch-8-1-ptr-build-28151-blood-elf-heritage-armor I really like this set, but I have some thoughts: 1) From the waist down (Robe and non-robe), it's a bit bland. Here's hoping for more 3D assets in the place where it counts. 2) I sure hope those boots aren't final for the non-robed version. I assume they're bugged since they don't look like the robed ones.Vertigo27 17h
18h Remove all PvP scaling When I first got World of Warcraft 14 years ago every single thing I did apart from taking resurrection sickness or unequipping gear made my character feel stronger. This was a theme that continued all the way through WoD. I knew that the more I played the game and spent time enjoying all the hard work the development team put into their content that my character would become stronger in a very tangible way. Then came Legion. In Legion for the first time I felt shackled. I felt in inability to claim ownership over my character in PvP. It was as though I was playing a rented character from Blizzard. I got to experience not my shaman that I had invested months upon months to create, but the development teams' idea of what a shaman should be. I dealt with this burden bitterly because I was going to be rewarded with some of the most outstanding well designed beautiful cosmetic elite sets. When I grew weary of how the 1 dimensional built rented shaman played I rerolled to another class to pursue the illustrious elite sets. In BFA not only are the Elite sets lack luster in comparison to past ones even going as far back as cataclysm, but there are even fewer sets to pursue. The scaling system that has replaced templates has muddied the waters so horrendously that 14 year players have no idea how to progress their character in PvP. We are reassured by Blizzard that scaling bugs were fixed in beta, yet ones manifest on live, we are told that things have been smoothed over, yet players obviously manipulating their item level appear in arena again and again, old set bonuses and weapon procs take root in rated settings. There is no place where players can reap the benefits of their labor that they've sown into their character without the scaling system directly interfering. Is all of this really worth it for the sake of "inclusiveness" do the players who have been motivated by the PvP experience for over a decade really have to bend at the knee for the sake of the ones who might dabble in a few arena matches from time to time, but don't find them enjoyable enough to invest time into gearing up their character? Do new casual players really need to be able to hit max level and join a rated setting in an MMORPG and be on even footing as everyone else? Does every single player need to live the Esports hero dream? Why can we not just let the chips fall where they may, what is so unfair about a PvP system that lets players do as much damage as their gear allows? What's so horrendous about letting players benefit from playing the game and overcoming challenging content that you, the development team, put your heart and soul into making? Why do you want to mitigate motivation for people to see the fruits of your labor and even share in them? Is part of the answer that players currently have the least control over how their character's gear progresses in WoW's entire history? That is an insanely easy fix my beloved dev gods and I wont belittle your expertise by explaining how to change that. I have faith that you in your hearts and souls know what makes for fun, exciting, challenging and fulfilling PvP content. Until scaling is removed from PvP I'll continue to pursue hollow victory after hollow victory and try to push through the demoralizing losses.Scrunchy0 18h
18h Don't forget to nerf Blood DK They are already OP and will only get more OP with scaling. The evidence is linked below. Monks are OP but they scale badly with gear so they don't need as bad of a nerf if they even need one at all. https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season-bfa-1/all/world/leaderboards#role=tank:mode=all:minMythicLevel=15:maxMythicLevel=99 M+ 15 and higher: 323 Blood DKs (55.7%) 101 Vengeance DHs (17.4%) 72 Brewmaster Monks (12.4%) 64 Protection Paladins (11.0%) 16 Protection Warriors (2.8%) 4 Guardian Druids (0.7%) https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#boss=2134&class=Tanks Mythic Vectis: 878 Brewmaster Monks (42.5%) 588 Blood DKs (28.5%) 267 Protection Paladins (12.9%) 145 Vengeance DHs (7.0%) 128 Guardian Druids (6.2%) 58 Protection Warriors (2.8%)Hutta77 18h
19h Free trial for BFA Just got a trial for BFA and 3 days game time this early in xpac makes me wonder how the game is really doingBreyger12 19h
19h Warforge/Titanforge Currency With the recent announcement of currency to help players target certain azerite gear. I would love to see something in the form of currency to upgrade items to warforged and titan forged. This could greatly offset the RNG mechanic that seems to reward players randomly. It also gives players something to work towards as they will likely always have items that they would like to be forged up.Sudsmcduff11 19h
19h Bring back Weapon skills I want more meaningful progression in WoW. This did it for me before and it’ll do it for me again.Mordecaí2 19h
21h you genuinely have to hate night elves to write a "fist-bump" story this bad. sylvanas is now, what, 1 val'kyr away from not having an extra life and being on an even playing field as every other character in the story? SUCH A LOSS. i remember people saying that new tyrande would be able to go toe to toe with sylvanas, but it seems she can't even kill the manlet sidekick. i can only imagine what horde players going through this scenario are going to think. "wow cool sky box let's kill some night elves" "are the black eyes a visual bug or something" "that was easy, back to zuldazar!" and this is ignoring the absolutely horrid fanfiction that is raising delaryn and siraMeadow64 21h
22h Outlaw "Snake Eyes" Stealth Nerf Snake Eyes got nerfed on the 8.1 PTR. Don't know when this happened, but I went to log on to see if any new Azerite Bonuses were added, just in case. When looking closely I saw a different tool tip for Snake Eyes "For each combo point spent on Roll the Bones, it causes your next 5 Sinister Strikes to deal 313 additional damage." Now it reads- "For each combo point spent on Roll the Bones, it causes your next 10 Sinister Strikes to deal 152 additional damage." The Trait itself is pretty strong, and great for stacking, but this nerf makes no sense to me. Its not on WoWHead or anything, so maybe an input error? But it does break the playstyle. There is no way during your normal optimal rotation that you are going to get 10 sinister strikes off. The buff lasts 12 seconds, and I need globals to spend into finishers, which is what you are supposed to do when rolling this as RtB. Slice and Dice has a 2 button rotation, spamming sinisters, but testing that yields low damage, so idk what this nerf was supposed to do. Its hard to craft a rotation around this trait, making it one of the worst traits, from a decent one. Where are new traits? What happened to replacing old traits, passive boring traits, and buffing spec specific ones? Either way, just reporting this.Dalaranxd13 22h
23h RIP binding heal.. 500 mana increase is a lot, they seem to be buffing holy overall healing to make up, it did need a nerf but 500 mana is so much overkill. Will be curious if anyone will use, other talents are not so exciting either, it might still be worth taking and using if you and 2 others are missing health and both holy words on cd, really niche, definetly cant cast very much, and if even 1 part of binding heal is wasted (u at full health, 1 word off cd) its not worth casting, it did need a nerf but 500 mana.... talk about overkillMonkiestman1 23h
23h PVP Vendors coming It's not too late, this could be Blizzard next armor/weapon announcement.... Please....Aesculapius7 23h
1d Can we just kill Nathanos? It would be nice if we could actually take him out after all the trouble he caused. Having him scurry away and leave us in more pain is so unsatisfying. (also my Horde hate his ugly face and everything he stands for - what he plans to do with Jaina's brother is basically committing suicide for the entire Horde)Hallun38 1d
1d Bring back Lifetap Lifetap was an iconic warlock spell. Enough said.Mordecaí5 1d
1d Why Darkshore? With Teldrassil gone, Darkshore is the only Night Elf only zone in the game. It’s now a permanent battlefield that will never end. Why? Ashenvale was already an unending battlefield. Neither faction drives the others out in their questing, and there are still burning buildings as you walk through the zone after the quests are done. Why not make Ashenvale the War Front instead of removing the only zone we have left?Tyriellais6 1d
1d Shared Reputation coming in ToV? I remember reading awhile back that reputation gains were going to be shared across characters in the upcoming update. Is this true? Specifically, will I be able to use a new 110's levelling rep to unlock my evil dorfs, or should I keep grinding 7th Legion dailies on my main?Paul0 1d
1d Glyph of dark apotheosis Could this be a thing in Wow again? Please add it back. I want to have fun again.Mordecaí3 1d
1d Where are the Shadow changes? Is the spec receiving ANY changes? Please let me know, I'd like to unsubscribe now if not.Zubdub11 1d
1d Bring back shaman buffs Shamans need their totems back the provided group buffs just like paladins have blessings. Even if it’s buffing one or two people like Rets.Mordecaí2 1d
1d Nerf Rogues Just go ahead and get it over with and avoid the outcry and backlash.Tavlina15 1d
1d Classic Races Heritage Questline Just leaving this thought here. Perhaps the heritage racial quest lines can require a character leveled to the maximum level of the expansion they were introduced. For example: Humans, Orcs, Dwarfs, Undead, etc. require a level 60 character and exalted with the race's capital city. Draenai and Blood elves would be 70, etc. I feel like the real reason to complete the quest line is to see some of the backstory of the race and the heritage armor is just a nice perk. There are already 110 requirements for the 4 original Allied Races and 120 for the 4 new Allied Races. I suppose the stance can be taken, "Well if you have a main character that is already level cap what does it matter?" You would have a valid point; however, maybe I would be curious to see the Goblin backstory on my level 90 Goblin or the Blood elf story on my level 80 character. /end suggestion The following is slight rant and can be ignored if desired. /start rant I don't invest a lot of time on the Horde faction but maybe I would if the requirements to try something new weren't so steep. I would like to play an Horde Allied Race for a little different flair; however, unlocking a race is a drag and I would rather not duplicate classes too much. I would love to level a Zandalari Troll Druid; however, I also want to level a regular Troll Druid, Highmountain Druid, Kul'Tiran Druid... ugh. The cynical side of me thinks that this is just subscription padding to keep people strung along. Another part of me feels like the design team just tacked on a "maximum" level requirement because they didn't think of anything different. I bet you would scores of people leveling additional characters to 60, 70, 80, etc. to see something different and then maybe just continue going because they tried something new and liked it. Sorry, got off tangent. Note: Sorry if this is the wrong place. I can post elsewhere if needed.Chiyaura0 1d
1d BFA 8.1 Havoc Feedback - What's Next? So, Im here to compile everything I've read and everything I feel about the spec and it's direction as well providing some of my experience and make some suggestions to improve our gameplay. Highlights: Right now, Havoc is on a delicate position, we have lost our artifact and with it a lot of our core gameplay. The new talent tree appears, looking by its final tier, to try to give us 3 different builds: Demonic - Momentum - Nemesis. While it is a solid idea on paper and a solid final tier, the rest of the spec and talents dont even begin to cover for this choices, because of the many problems the spec currently have. Like the absurd amount of DPS windows overlap, Fury starvation, clunky flow and lackluster mastery. Although our numbers are good, the spec just feels off. Nothing really flows smoothly, only really clunky. I dont being tuned if my spec is fun. But we are a shadow of what we were. One can argue that most of the problems would be fixed by increasing the Fury cap. Thankfully, our cap was extended to 120, with feels better, but I personally think the cap should be 150, because we fill and spend so fast that a very limited cap would have us pressing Demon's Bite for large amounts of time, overcapping or starved and thats not fun or good gameplay. So, here’s a couple of ideas to improve the gameplay, and I say gameplay because I'll not talk about numbers, that's not my goal. I'll however try to explain why the spec feels so messed and give a look at the talents, one tier at the time, until I cover everything. I think is important to highlight too, that Havoc DHs didnt have a single feedback from Blizzard since the early changes on alpha and its my hope that this time we at least get a glimpse of the philosofic ideas behind our class design.Izanna75 1d
1d (PvP, Disc) Strength of Soul With the nerfs coming to Disc and the return of weakened soul, I think it would be the perfect time to add the heal back onto the honor talent strength of soul so every time you power word: shield a target they receive a heal. Currently there are a plethora of purges, pw:s barely absorbs anything, and their healing numbers are pretty low. Nerfing their damage and atonement healing is completely justified in PvE but is very concerning for PvP.Crypticghoul3 1d
1d Legitimate Suggestions for Blues Here are some of my thoughts on some undertakings that could be adopted to improve the overall player experience and lift some pressure off of the development team! I do tend to get upset at times, but I genuinely want the best for this game and I have high hopes for it. I am a person who will without fail hook up to a virtual reality machine that redirects my brain signals to control an in game avatar at some point in the future. It would be wonderful if WoW was still around and was the stand out game of choice at that time. Raiding I only do up to Heroic Pugs that don't require voice communication. I take a bare minimum approach to raiding. If there is an item I really need to be viable in PvP or can improve my overall performance in M+ I will pursue it for maybe 2-3 weeks before giving up. If there was a more assured way to attain said piece through a currency I may be more inclined to down as many bosses as possible with voice chat because there would be a light at the end of the tunnel instead of uncertainty. I don't think this is a new concept and is something that has been expressed in more depth by others. I think adding in cosmetic rewards similar to how Halls of Valor was done would also be a great help, meaning that there is a quest that once complete rewards that set. Mythic+ Azerite gear definitely should drop at the appropriate difficulty levels. The possibility to get PvE versions of battleborn sigils would be a great addition to the system and has been expressed before, additionally if a currency token that could be exchanged for specific gear item would also be a great motivator. How currency would work: Tokens or a token would be given in the weekly chest. I would suggest x3 for Azerite pieces, legs, and weapons x2 for hands, boots, belt, trinkets x1 for cloaks, rings, and wrists. The item level of said pieces would reflect the highest base item level reward for M+ levels that character has completed in time. Meaning if I wanted a Trinket from Atal'Dazar and I had only completed a +2 AD then I would only be able to purchase +2 level gear from that vendor. Also cosmetic rewards for completing a +15 Key per season should be added. Similar to past challenge mode rewards. Professions A return to BC even WoTLK style profession that are able to craft very impactful pieces like the Stormherald would be a very welcome aspect for the community. Perhaps add in a legendary style quest for each profession that ends with the crafter being able to craft a soulbound base mythic raid level weapon or gear slot would be a nice touch. Adding in quest lines to unlock raid tier or m+ specific cosmetic sets for professions would also be a huge improvement. World Events I understand that incursions are being added. I do appreciate the legion invasions for leveling alts because they are extremely efficient and I imagine that these incursions might reflect legion invasions in a BFA style. I don't think that is something that's going to motivate me to do them every time I see one active nor would a sizable Azerite reward be enough to excite me. I think adding in 1-time beyond legendary consumables with mind boggling effects would be a wonderful change of pace for World immersion. For example a consumable that spawns once a month and restricts flying for the other faction for 24 hours, or doubles resource gathering or XP for ones guild for a duration. These would be items that would change how players actually behaved and would become huge focal points. I think the key with these items would be to implement them in a way that isn't leaked or datamined. Keep information about these items incredibly restricted. Players should have more out of the box impactful ways to interact with amazing world you've all created.Scrunchy8 1d
1d Destruction Feedback Topic: 1,Back draft needs reworking back to give 2 charges of reduced cast time to our filler, Incinerate. This will make the rotation more fluid, especially when moving. As it stands currently, it's a waste to use except on Chaos bolt, which due to the increased cast times, puts the player at risk of extra damage taken. 2, Demonfire. Was overly nerfed for BFA. Needs to be stronger for single target. Can work well with Cataclysm for AoE. Maybe add a mod for extra% dmg if no other enemies within a certain radius? 3,Fire and Brimstone. Another one which was overly nerfed to the point of being useless. Needs rework back to at least 50%. 4,Rain of fire. Radius is just way small to make this effective. Increased radius size would improve this. Unlike my mage or DK, this targeted AoE ability is by far the worse. Small radius, no mods to other abilities or cooldowns etc. 5, Drain life. Needs balancing better. Damage output is too low for the health return. Along with Soul Leech, it makes us less resilient than we have ever been. Suggest higher return for hp healed. Increase from current 22%( I think) for full cast time of hp healed to about 40% for full cast time, ( 8% of hp healed per second). Still keeping to 5 second cast. 6, Cataclysm. While I welcomed this back as a viable option (partly due to other nerfs), It would benefit from a slight increase to the radius. 7, Unending resolve. Reduce cooldown. Maybe link it to a trait or another ability? Or you could add an increase of % hp for a XX amount of time after it has been cast. 8, Demonic Circle. Revert the changes applied to our circle so we may have a 1 button use again. QoL issue this. 9, Glyph of Nightmares. Killjoy move that removed our awesome blazing water walking ability. Another QoL issue, that if returned someway for our class mount, would make a lot of players happy. 10, Curse of Elements. This was with us during BFA beta, then removed before launch and given with a rename to Demon Hunters. It would be nice if we could have this returned. 11, GCD. While I hate all the changes you made for all classes with the additional GCD's, and the fact that beta feedback was ignored. Could you at least, please take Cataclysm and Shadow fury off the GCD list, 1.5 and 0.5 seconds I think they are currently. Going to do some more testing and revisit or edit later. Thankyou. Disclaimer. If for any reason this post is deemed offensive, trolling, in breach of ToS or forum rules and needs to be deleted. Please feedback to me as to the reasons why. Thankyou.Entrópy2 1d