Monk

Nov 13, 2015 Most of what made MW unique is gone. Fistweaving being removed did not bother me at all. However, what drew me to mistweaver was how unique its abilities were to other healing classes. -I loved the channeling effect of soothing mists, and the animation with it. -I loved my jade statue that would be with me. -Using chi as a resource. -Mana tea as a ways to slowly replenish mana. ALL of that is gone now. They completely changed the spec, and instead of making it "unique" they made it much more like any other healing class. This makes me very sad, and for the time being makes me consider shelving this character.Caliopae15 Nov 13, 2015
Nov 13, 2015 monk questions 4 legion that need answering first, for brewmasters or i guess monks as a while, being the artifact weapon has a keg hanging from it are you gonna fix the sheathed staff so that it hangs from the top and not the bottom? or maybe when we have it out we can rest it on our shoulders while running/walking? second i notice with glyphs all major is going away and only keeping minors to simply add on to spells...what about zen flight? this doesnt fall onto a spell and you guys want us to be in FANTASY with our characters..so please tell me this stays. so the BrM and the WW artifacts are amazing...simply put im gonna become very attached to these skins...but you guys said we cant mog into artifacts only out of them..so whats to become of these after legion...you guys just cant give us amazing skins to use for 1-2 years then we go back to the stick with the nail at the end of it..i mean those WW claws alone...iv been waiting for a skin like this sense BC on my shaman...please PLEASE let us mog into these skins after legion also can i please get a keg on my back? can we get a buff to chi burst? my haudoken fantasy wants to be there but the attack feels so sub par...ALSO can we charge effect for it for if we hold it long enough we can channel it for like 3-5 seconds as a huge beam blast with knock back? just throwin ideas out here :P my final question is more of a cosmetic thing, if we cant have a keg for those of use with the farmers hat or the shadopan helm can there be an effect where it appears on your back on use then back to head on use? okay my final final question, will our class hall be at the peak? will there be a secret monk only entrance somewhere?Dakudin1 Nov 13, 2015
Nov 13, 2015 BrM monks in legion. I don't think many people realize how fricken strong BrM are going to be if this goes through. ... That is a 60% on top of base stagger which atm is 20% so. that is a 80% stagger on demand. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets changed before release. that is ALL dmg remember. stagger will also affect magic dmg at a 50% reduction. but that's still a 40% magic stagger.Utrtipsy14 Nov 13, 2015
Nov 13, 2015 You're destroying MW Unique Identity I don't mind change, except what happened to MW's after MOP, but at least their game play style wasn't messed with. Now, they are to lose their unique channelling game play style? You guy's need to step back and see what you are doing. MW's are slowly turning into another casting healer class and losing their channelling focused style. This is why I loved MW's and now you guy's are destroying it and creating just another caster. Yea, sure maybe they will good, but that's not the point. The point is you had MW's as something different other then just another caster and now it's fading away. There is nothing wrong with MW's right now in terms of how their spells work, aside from Uplift and it's weak heals in PvP. Don't let your anxiousness for change blind you guys and ruin such a special and unique class.Missbarbíe3 Nov 13, 2015
Nov 13, 2015 Speculations: Soothing Mist The changes to Soothing Mist have caused a fair bit of outrage, and are quite at odds with the Dev team's prior design focus. Not so much an argument against the change, I intend to quantify (requiring generalizations to even begin) what this change means for our Single Target healing. The largest problem in the way is Blizzards terms, what exactly is the meaning of 'minor', 'moderate' and 'large'. For my purposes I will be using my own output for SooM ticks (minor: around 10k), surging mist (moderate: around 25k) and Enveloping Mist (large: around 100k). This could either mean I am close or considerably off but it provides an easier visual for me at least. The first consideration for SooM is how it interacts with our mastery. Whether or not it triggers the mastery can change how we approach the spell. In this I will consider with it not triggering and with it triggering on channel. The furthest extreme would be if it triggered on every tick but that would make it almost as strong as Enveloping Mist (or stronger since it heals that amount in 2 sec while EM takes 6). The second is simply how fast the new SooM is, at 0.5 sec a tick compared to the current ~0.8 sec. This means that the spell will tick three times in the cast time of Effuse or Vivify meaning that it will heal 10k more then Effuse without triggering mastery or 5k less then Vivify (Since both Effuse and Vivify will trigger mastery, making their healing 20k and 35k respectively). Without triggering mastery, use of Effuse at any point besides absolutely necessary to refresh SooM is a healing loss. Vivify constitutes a minor increase to healing compared to letting SooM tick, but at 5% mana a cast, it will likely be prudent to stagger it with SooM ticks. Which spell you start the SooM channel with is also a consideration (Effuse start: 1.8% mana - 50k healing over 3 sec, Vivify start: 5% mana - 65k healing over 3 sec). Obviously with Vivify there will be further considerations, raid damage and ReM procs (increasing Vivify healing to 47k on it's own). If SooM does trigger mastery, then even the unbuffed Vivify will be 5k less then letting the ticks go for the 1.5 sec. After that it becomes the same as without triggering mastery, meaning that a pure numbers look at it would be to stagger vivify casts every 1.5 sec for a 10k healing increase. I would consider Enveloping Mist as well, but in general situations I haven't seen the need to use one EM after another so it is likely on a more situational basis then a rotational. Overall, this seems like the Mistweaver single target is going to be a lot of empty actions which is... disconcerting. Obviously, these are not the actual numbers and the release of the actual information could wildly throw these thoughts out of place. In addition I have never done this kind of thing before and likely made quite a few errors in my math and organization.Ninh0 Nov 13, 2015
Nov 13, 2015 Confused on soothing mist I loved my character's casting animation with soothing mist. Silly to some but it really made it feel unique. I know reading that it will become a passive, but will I still be actually channeling it? From the way it sounded I would be, it would just be automatic and need to be cancelled. Correct me if Im wrong.Caliopae2 Nov 13, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 New Brewmaster Mastery problems. Mastery: Elusive Brawler. Each time you are hit by a melee attack, you gain 20% (with Mastery from typical gear) Dodge, until your next successful Dodge. The upcoming Legion Mastery for Brewmasters is very unique, but I already see some issues with it, mainly with its scaling. Quite frankly, I think that the Mastery will have some very adverse affects on the rest of the Brewmasters toolkit. Stacking Mastery will still provide a defensive increase of course, but not nearly to the extent that it should/could. First, lets talk about its scaling. Assuming we have a baseline 20% Dodge chance, and 20% Dodge chance per hit from Mastery as our example, this means that we can go 4 hits before we get a truly guaranteed Dodge, as the Dodge chance will increase from 20%, to 40%->60%->80%->100%. Now, lets say we have 25% Dodge chance per hit from Mastery. Our Dodge chance will increase from 20% to 45%->70%->95%->100%. Meaning it will still take 4 hits before we gain a guaranteed Dodge. Now, lets say we have 26.7% Dodge chance per hit from Mastery. Our Dodge chance will increase from 20% to 46.7%->73.4%->100%, meaning it will take 3 hits before a guaranteed Dodge. What this means, is that Mastery has several small soft caps until it hits certain breakpoints, specifically, the amount of Mastery needed to make a guaranteed Dodge happen. Assuming 20% baseline Dodge, 20% Dodge per hit and 26.7% Dodge per hit are both breakpoints. Mastery's value decreases if your Dodge per hit chance is not on one of these breakpoints, and this presents a very small scaling issue. However, while this is an issue nonetheless, its such a minor issue that it can basically be disregarded, as this takes into assumption that every single hit won't be Dodged until the 100% Dodge chance, which is extremely rare for it to happen more than 15 times over an average boss fight. Now, since these breakpoints are a non-issue for the most part, lets talk about how this Mastery interacts with our other currently revealed abilities. Gift of the Ox. Passive. When you take damage, you have a chance to summon a Healing Sphere visible only to you. Moving through this Healing Sphere will heal you for 25% of your maximum health. This chance is increased the lower health you are. Take notice of the "When you take damage" portion. That is where the problem lies. To benefit from your 25% self heal, you have to have taken damage. And this Mastery overall reduces the amount of hits you take, meaning that this passive will be triggered less often the more Mastery you have. This affects its scaling, since the more Mastery you have, the less value that this passive provides, since it will proc less often as you get more Mastery. Ironskin Brew. Instant, 20 sec recharge, 3 charges. Increases your Stagger amount by an additional 60% for 6 sec. Shares charges with Purifying Brew. Stagger is a very good mechanic for dealing with damage, and this ability reflects that. However, stagger only works when you are actually taking damage. If you are avoiding the attacks, you gain less benefit from using this ability. Since Mastery increases your avoidance, it devalues Ironskin Brew (and subsequently, Purifying Brew) substantially. The more Mastery you receive, the less useful that your Brews will be in mitigating Damage. All in all, Mastery's value outweighs the loss of value from your Brew abilities and Gift of the Ox passive, so by stacking Mastery, you are still getting more defense. However, since Mastery weakens the overall power of your toolkit, this means that it doesn't scale particularly well.What this means, is that we could possibly receive a better benefit from Haste than what we receive from our current Mastery, since Haste results in more frequent usage of our Brew abilities, due to our Energy spenders reducing their CD's. Only time will tell, but quite frankly, this Mastery has some underlying issues that hinder its scaling, and other stats could very well pass over it in terms of defense. We do not have an understanding as to what our other core abilities, Artifact enhancements, and talent choices will be, so we can't make a proper conclusion as to how our Mastery is going to scale. But with the information we have now, our Mastery may see some issues in Legion.Titusmonk6 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 Word on the street - Fistweaving GONE?! A few monks over on the mmo-c forums who attended Blizzcon said that Celestalon told a few people that Chi, Mana Tea, Ranged Immunity and most importantly fistweaving, is being taken away from us in Legion. If this turns out to be true tomorrow when you release your Monk blog, I am going to be viciously angry with the development team. Healing while dealing damage is supposed to be OUR niche, not Disc. I am okay with sharing it since Disc is Ranged and we are melee, but if you take it out completely, you are ENTIRELY missing the point of what the Mistweaver fantasy is for your players. We are supposed to be martial artists who heal, and taking away fistweaving completely trashes and throws away that fantasy. This will be a complete deal-breaker for me if this turns out to be true!Dragonberry20 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 Here's whats wrong with the MW changes Sure the MW Mastery change is good. Everything else? May as well have removed mw monks and added a new spec entirely, cause that's how much MW in Legion will resemble the spec we currently know. Not only is it mechanically butchered, but the flavour has been utterly destroyed. First of all, the ReM Uplift interaction. !@#$ where do I begin. This was one of the best elements of the spec that had a high skill level to it. Yes in WoD the setup time is excessive, but that's ENTIRELY because they gave uplift a cast time. The ReM and Chi generation served as the cast time, so then adding an actual cast time to Uplift really made it problematic. Clear example of how the devs sometimes have nfi what they're doing. Next, the new Soothing Mist. Wtf. What the actual %^-* is this. This is probably one of the most clueless changes and biggest lack of insights by the devs I've ever seen. "For Mistweavers, it’s OK to have open global cooldowns between heals—Soothing Mist fills these gaps." WRONG. SO !@#$ING WRONG. First of all, the initial cast is either going to top them up, in which case the follow up from Soothing is completely pointless, or you're going to need to immediately move on to healing someone else, in which case your soothing gets cancelled. Now, in the event where neither of these is true, i.e. you need to keep healing that same target, do you really think we're going to want to sit there using a slow, weak passive heal? Hell no. Maybe it'll be okay for dungeon content at the start of the expansion. In a raid environment this will never fly, its going to lower your HPS and make you look bad as well as ignoring the fact that there's always someone else to triage. In a raid if after the first cast they're not sufficiently topped, you'll just want to recast the direct heal, not wait for some bull%^-* passive soothing mist to do the job. If there's one thing that is absolutely always true about any spec, its that you NEVER want empty GCD's, especially as a healer, you should ALWAYS be casting something. I can't see this new Soothing Mist working at all. Now, the thing that has bothered most people, the removal of Fistweaving. Yep, I dislike this too. In fact I think its completely stupid. Fistweaving is one of the CORE elements of Mistweaver flavour and identity and lore (or it would be if they had any). Furthermore it wasn't half as clunky as they said, and it could have easily been addressed via tuning. And sure, if it only serves real purpose as a mana management tool, then why is that necessarily bad? I think that's a great part of the spec that had a lot of flavour tied to it. Yes mana tea is innately hard to balance, but so what. Let that be their thing, cause lets be honest, its not like any other healing spec has a significantly harder time managing mana, its all pretty face rolly by the 2nd tier of the xpac. Now, just to add insult to injury, they announced that ALL HEALERS will have a way to contribute significant damage during downtime and for leveling. ... So are you seriously telling me they've removed fistweaving only to add some other form of Mistweaver damage dealing? THAT. IS. !@#$ING. STUPID. Now, lastly, and this is more general to all monk spec changes, they've really just butchered the class flavour. While almost every other classes announcements have really indicated that the developers really understood the class/spec identity and flavour, these Monk changes absolutely do not (and the shammy ones weren't great either IMO). Removing Chi for MW and BrM, Removing the "Brewing" mechanic for MW, a mechanic that all 3 specs had their own version of and which was core to flavour, removing any martial arts link from Mistweaver, making the fast paced martial arts master (WW) a slower spec, etc, etc, I can continue, but you get the point. It feels bad and completely disconnected from the identity and flavour of the spec that they've created up until now. Just, I don't even. Seriously, wtf. Did some new crew get posted on Monks and have absolutely no idea what they're doing? Did they move the old %^-* and disconnected Priest Dev team to monks? Who knows, but these changes do not at all reflect the really solid understanding of class and spec flavour and design that we've seen with most of the other classes changes.Totöro26 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 Fistweaving is essential. Yeah they aren't the most popular or most utilized playstyle choices. But they represent far more than what Blizzard is giving them credit for. Right now they intend to strip Fistweaver from the game come Legion. They want to make Holy Paladins front-line healers, because "Standing in the thick of it and waving your hands around is the class fantasy of Holy Paladins". They want to make Discipline Priests a 70/30 Healer/Damager, while simultaneously claiming that Fistweaving can't/won't work. But thats just laziness. Thats Blizz saying "We don't like that there is more to healing than just standing around waving your hands until green text comes out". To pretend its anything else is an insult to dedicated Fistweavers everywhere, and a discredit to the fine work of the original Monk creators that put together the MoP fistweaver archetype in the first place. Blizzard is saying; "We want people who can heal and also do damage (Disc Priests), and we want people who can heal and be in the front lines (Holy Paladin). But its impossible to do both, which is why Fistweaving "isn't going to make the cut for legion."..." I can feel the vomit and vitriol pooling in the back of my throat as a result of these horrible Mistweaver changes. If you wanted to stand around waving your hands while casting the same 1-2 healing skills over and over on your Healbot interface - than you have Resto Shaman, Holy Paladin, Disc/Holy Priest and Resto Druid for that. Thats what they do. Its what they've always done (with the exception of feisty trees running around spamming insta-cast HoT's in pvp!) - and they do it quite well enough. Mistweaving though, was about versatility. Original playstyles and innovative mechanics. Stance dancing between dedicated healer mistmancy and quick immersive hybrid healing/damage inflicted by the calloused bruised hands of a dedicated fistweaver. And what do we all have to show for it? Just another healing cog in the healing cookie-cutter machine. Get ready to stand still and spam a few heals for the rest of your career, at least until the expansion after Legion where Blizzard finally realizes it messed up and killed one of the most original gameplay mechanics they've been able to craft since they first learned you could right-click a gold '!'. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ By the way. Giving up on Fistweaving is a cop out. Giving up on it and then trying to create yet another hybrid damage/healer in Disc Priest while saying Fistweaver won't work is a bold-faced lie. It reeks of incompetence, and is so anti-fun that even EA is taken aback by the audacity of such a lazy half-hearted move. Good luck balancing this new would-be hybrid class with absolutely no other comparable hybrid to tune it off of. If anything else, Fistweaving & Discipline should have been two peas in a pod. Owning up to the fact that healing can be about more than just waving and waving your hands around like an animatronic chess piece would have actually been the smart move here. After all these years, you've created something genuinely immersive to play for a healing spec. But much like all the other great mechanics you let fall into disarray and obscurity (such as shaman Totems and warlock Demons) - you're ready to pack it up and go home with your tail between your legs. Its so completely disappointing. How did Blizzard end up like this? Are we not giving you enough money? Is that what you think of your creation? "Sorry guys, fistweaving will cost you a raid tier because these low-quality tier set designs aint gonna pay for themselves!" I know that folks aren't used to hearing it said so blatantly. But I think this is what Blizzard needs to hear - from everyone whose had their hopes dashed with the release of the class preview information. Give us what we want Blizzard. Don't think for a second that the "fantasies" you've dragged up from your slag bucket will ever compare with what we as players ultimately demand in your game.Fystify22 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 Are MW still considered Meelee in Legion? I ask this because i personally LOVE the fact that we don't get targeted by half the stuff everybody else does. Changing this is completely changing the spec from a ground up level. Any one know? From what i can tell they are giving the Meelee spec to Holy Paladins and we are losing it.Fistsoganja6 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 Mistweavers are redefined @WarcraftDevs @SuperAmazSofi During an encounter where you can't be in melee, Crackling Jade Lightning makes a good fallback. 11:38 AM - 12 Nov 2015 I don't see why they can't have both Paladins and Monks be Melee, but I guess that's asking too much. Paladins into Legion it is! I can get the gameplay style I want on another class I enjoy at least, but shelving this monk wasn't what I had desired. I like the other changes, as our Mastery and chi generation and the Crane stance were a bit clunky and off putting, but I was hoping for a return to the 5.4 iteration where none of those things were true. Gives us the new healing design but classify us as melee and make our dps melee and I'd still want to main this character. I guess I'm the minority though.Dhimsum5 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 No mention of TEB.. is it gone? I loved the TEB mechanic and how it added complexity to the class.. crushed about SEF being simplified.. however TEB removal might just kill how much fun windwalker was.. is it removed? I can't tell..Zedray33 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 MW: Soothing mist changes I'm a bit confused about the changes to soothing mist. ... It looks like the point of effuse is to trigger soothing mist on a target, since it only heals for a minor amount. I'm guessing Effuse itself will never be cast with the intention of doing anything else. Is it supposed to make MW feel "unique" because we save 1 second of casting when we use Effuse into the passive Soothing Mist instead of casting a longer heal/healing touch/holy light/healing wave? Maybe I'm missing something, but the change feels awkward and random to me. From a design perspective, I'm curious why soothing mist was changed? The current way soothing mist channels with instant surging/enveloping made the spec feel different than other healing classes. It seemed to work well and I don't recall hearing anyone complaining about it. I hope the developers provide some insight into the design change.Vicky2 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 SEF...why So i read the changes to SEF today and it really disappoints me. that was one of the main reasons i played WW monks and enjoyed it. but now i just hit a button and they do what they want...no...just no. why would i want a "pet" that i cant control. in raids it nice to be able to set 2 on one target and another on a caster that out of melee range while you DPS your own. being able to select what targets they attack is nice and it makes the class fun. im not interested in a toggle that just lets them loose to do what they wish. if i have this wrong then please let me know but that's what i got out of it.Desalation1 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 BRM in Legion I read the Preview and my face contorted into a mess of emotions. So we're losing Expel Harm and we need to strafe in order to self-heal based on a chance that a sphere will spawn? I'm really confused. Did they just gut our self-healing? The impression I get is that Brewmasters are losing a lot of their control. No Guard. No Expel Harm. Mitigation is based on dodge change and stagger operating like an unreliable Shield Block we need to purify. I fear we may be too RNG based and damage spikes will be erratic and unpredictable. I really don't understand the changes. Somebody explain. Please.Muddler17 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 The changes ....Aren't all that badDriefal9 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 Chi-Ji love Hello Monk community! I, like a group of people am kind of saddened they are getting rid of fist weaving, but I'm especially saddened because as a healer I want my celestial represented! we have the tiger and ox representation going pretty strong in Brewmaster and Windwalker with summing Xuen and having that Ox statue, and the dragon usually represented caster damage. I want some crane love! I know it won't happen but just wanted to put it out there to get a summonable Crane like Xuen that can help with healing would be so cool! ok that is all.Ghobes3 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 To all those complaining about skills: Hey ! Calm down a little and read this: "Every class only had 5 ish skill, 1 mastery and 1 talent revealed from legion" So it ain't because you do not see Touch of Death or Jab or Chi Explosion or anything else, that it means it has been removed. All class preview had a limited list of skill to be revealed! So chill and netflix !Siegroth6 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 more disapointment >TEB on 1.5 min CD >FoF no longer stuns (?) >Chi Explosion and Jab are R.I.P >Absolutely no mentions to our healing or surviviability >Fistweaving is R.I.P >BrM changes are meh inb4 "its to early, need to wait, trust in blizz, slit your wrist kid" blah blah blah yadda yadda. Im just saying, WW/Monks being like they are now, i expected ALOT more.... there better be more coming in the future or Monk is gonna be R.I.PZife19 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 New Monk with quick questions Hello Monks!!! I have recently started leveling a Monk in prep for a new at in Legion, but I have found this class to be the most fun I've had in the game for years. The more I play the more I want to main this class for Legion, but I have a question about leveling. I like all classes and am thinking I'll go BM/WW but in the interest of leveling my artifact early in legion I'm curious about BM leveling. I have done very little leveling outside lfg and pvp. Last time I leveled a tank was as protection pally in wrath, and it was a hell of a grind. Can BM do decent enough damage while questing so it doesn't feel like a massive grind? What about leveling around TJ for baleful? Also, I'm wondering if you think BM will be new player friendly and effective in Legion. I don't quite understand the class enough yet to know what all the changes mean exactly. Thanks for the help!Yomji3 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 Legion Class Preview: Windwalker PvP Windwalker Changes ... This sounds fun for the most part, but I feel as though it will be balanced so that the 25% additional damage is roughly equal to the baseline damage of other classes. This seemingly creates a higher skill cap for monks, and I hope they reward that skill cap. ... There was no mention of Jab or Expel Harm in the preview, so it's hard to speculate about the changes to Tiger Palm. I would like to have more Chi-generating abilities, considering our new Mastery. ... Blackout Kick is relatively unchanged, except for the Chi cost and removal of positional effects. ... The only change I can see is that there is no longer a damage-increasing debuff attached to Rising Sun Kick. Let's hope RSK hits like a truck in Legion. ... Fists of Fury got a reduced cooldown, its stun is removed, and it can now be channeled while moving. I'm hoping we don't rely on Leg Sweep as our only stun, especially if we have issues being kited in Legion. It still mentions melee range which is disappointing. ... Spinning Crane Kick now costs Chi instead of energy. This may mean that Rushing Jade Wind will become a viable talent over Chi Torpedo. ... This is probably a net nerf for Storm, Earth, and Fire in 3's. Comps with pets will make things complicated. Interestingly, the net damage and healing will be 150% of normal, given 100% uptime for all clones. Perhaps we'll be able to cast Storm, Earth, and Fire and then Chi Wave or Rushing Jade Wind for some pretty crazy AoE heals on top of the extra damage. I can see this giving us a spot in RBG's for team fights. ... This was mentioned as a talent, so it's going to be optional. I can imagine short cooldowns being extremely valuable for Hit Combo builds, possibly giving this talent a slightly more unique playstyle. My Overall Opinion I'm anxious about all of this. The removal of Fists of Fury's stun could give our burst much less utility on its own, and they didn't mention Tigereye Brew. If TeB is removed, I will be a bit upset. The new Mastery doesn't make up for it because we can't activate the extra damage on demand, but major cooldowns haven't been revealed yet. I just don't want Windwalker to become another "press this button every 2 minutes for more burst damage" spec. Give me your thoughts about these changes. September 2016 is ridiculously far away, so we have plenty of time to speculate.Sciezko5 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 Fistweaving (and Glad Stance) Officially Gone http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/393117-rip-fistweaving/ Fistweaving (and Gladiator Stance) will not be joining us in Legion. We love the fantasy that each of those “subspecs” promise, but leaving them as subspecs has proven to be problematic, making us unable to properly deliver on their fantasy. Trying to support two different playstyles within one spec restricts how much we can focus and bring out the strengths of either of them. We still love both of their concepts, however, and will look for opportunities to bring them back in the future. Fistweaving in particular ended up being used mostly as a mana management tool to support Serpent Stance, instead of a damage/heal hybrid, which didn’t support its fantasy well. While we recognize that the initial goal for Mistweaver Monk -- combining a ranged healer with a melee healing style -- attracted some people to the class, quite a few things have changed since then. Most importantly, there’s been a huge shift away from smart heals in Warlords, which is continuing in Legion. Mistweaver gameplay for most players was centered around their ranged healing spells, and our focus for the spec in 7.0 consists of reinforcing their unique array of healing tools and adding talents and artifact powers that support this style. [i]Anonymage0 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 Melee healer I've been thinking about the mistweaver vision revealed yesterday. I like so many of my brothers and sisters am upset with the announced loss of fistweaving. However, the more I think on it, the more I am starting to believe we were not given the full vision Bliz has for MW. They did not say Mistweavers don't belong in melee range alongside our iron-clad pally friends. They said our attacks will no longer be the source of our healing. If you look at the toolkit that was announced, it was direct single target heals, hot with smart heal mechanics, and aoe healing centered around the monk. Think about that. It's not aoe healing centered around a target, i.e. the tank. Also why are we given so much healing that requires so little management? Add in our soothing mist replacement expects us to go periods of time not directly engaged with casting healing spells. Then there is mistwalking, a talent that encourages us rushing into melee range. Priests were given the opposite spell because they are ranged. And finally Bliz did not reveal what they have in mind for our offensive capabilities. I suspect we will see them to be melee based off what I've seen and have not seen. I will be leveling my Pally in case I am woefully mistaken, but I not confident I am. I think we will be melee healers.Tigerfury4 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 So how will leveling work as MW? They said they wanted to make healers able to level without much hassle next expansion, but with the revamp details...I simply dont see how this will be possible. Either they are baking in alot of WW abilities to do more damage for MWs somehow(attack power or something based off Int?) or are we just gonna get a CJL that hits like a truck to spam? Doesn't make much sense. If beta isnt amazing, I see no reason to main a MW. What exactly are we bringing to the table others dont already have, plus some? I guess the big problem now with MWs are our utility talents..hope they revamp some of them, because honestly they aren't very worthwhile compared to combat rezzes, mass dispells, etc.Tao7 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 Expel Harm Healing WA Trying to make a WA for my BM Monk that displays how much healing expel harm heals for when I use it. Lots of Google Searching doesn't come up with much. Any help would be appreciated.Pádwani0 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 Haste and Multi cap for BM (PVE) Just curious. I know BA>MS>CRT is our best. But what about haste and Multi...well multi goes bye bye in Legion. ThanksBätuo0 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 Deamon Hunter From what they have released, as a person that got interested in this game from monk, I feel they have said daemon hunters are what you want to play. MOP made me fall in love with style, a desire to play on a rotation that I enjoyed, if I don't have that opportunity why should I play? there are games right now that actually release their sub numbers, FFXIV, that blizzard is not currently doing. This is a thing, not releasing sub numbers, that makes me question their judgment. Currently a class I don't play, sounds like the class I want to play, and why should I trust blizzard to keep them at that level after what they did to monks? curious? or should I go to a game that listened to the players that played a class that said "this is not fun'?Creac0 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 My thoughts on the brewmaster changes preview I like the thought that blizzard has going forward. A drunkard who is so wasted that hitting them only causes a portion of the pain to immediately happen with the rest happening as you become more sober, if you can even hit them with how unpredictable and dizzying their movements can be. That said, I can't believe the direction they are ACTUALLY taking us in. 1. Guard removal - Okay, I'll bite, thematically, doesn't make a lot of sense for the class. Drunks aren't supposed to never take damage when they get hurt, just be more sturdy against the initial blow. Sad to see it go, but oh well. 2. Expel Harm - Ehhh getting a little pushy, especially since the heal has requirements to be legitmately useful, and it's main problem is how it is currently interacting with guard with T18 4 piece, but okay whatever, I'll stomach it I guess. 3. Tiger's palm - ..... What the !@#$? What? No way I read that right.... Our filler spell... is now costing us 50 energy.... in order to make up for the fact we don't have chi anymore. Because reasons? Why..... I must be getting too many pumpkin spice latte's, because I literally can't even. Okay, cool it takes ONE second off our charges (which share a cooldown).... but that's just ridiculous to me with how fast paced the monk has always felt. After all, we all know how much brewmasters love the stack haste until you can't see any other stat playstyle.... 4. Blackout kick - Okay. Nerf it once, shame, but okay, I'll live. Nerf it twice, making shuffle (from what we can see so far) not even a thing, and now we get one filler spell every 3 seconds.... Why? Just why? 5. Mastery - Elusive Brawler - Whelp. There goes elusive brew, our, as of 6.2, ONLY active mitigation spell. Wonder what they'll give us in response. So great not having control of your dodge chance that your class should thematically have. 6. Breath of fire - Okay, kinda fine with this one. Never used breath of fire because it wasn't really worth it, maybe we can start now. 7. Elusive Dance - Okay, a talent, not a big deal, it can changed around. But FIFTEEN PERCENT CAP!?!?! ARE YOU SERIOUS?! Brewmasters were already not caring about shuffle as much because it was only 10% parry, so you give us a 15% dodge MAX? Please, tell me I'm wrong and that we won't be as boring to play as it looks on paper, because I would really hate to see a toon that I love so much turn into something not even recognizable.Senaris0 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 Early WWMonk Preview : Nerfs... (FROM A PVP POV) Anyone else unhappy with WWMonk Early Previews? Pros : New Better Mastery. BoK costing 1 Chi. 20Second Fist CD. Hopefully new talents will be fun/give us a decent feel again that we once had in MoP. Cons : Spinning Crane Kick Costing 1 Chi, over 40 Energy. SEF completely dumbed down because somehow blizzard thinks its a hard ability to use. (I Think) Fist No longer stunning? Unless its becoming A Talent. Tiger Palm now costing 50 Energy Tiger Palm new Jab, New Jab removed, so that means thats 1 less way we'll be seeing our fist weps in Legion due to Animation Changes, unless Blizzard truely has a good way of us Sheathing our Weapons next In Legion. Additionally : TEB better not be removed, it wasn't mentioned in the Description, but thats probably just because it wasnt changed (Hopefully it stays how it is)... So far, quite unhappy with these changes, giving WW awful changes for Legion as of this Preview, Hopefully Beta proves me wrong...Untaintedx14 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 Guys, fistweaving was going to go... We should've known this was going to happen. Look at WoD. Blizzard did everything in their power to dumb down healing to 1 or 2 single target spells and 1 or 2 AoE spells with a dispel, a defensive CD, and a healing CD. That's like the gist of every healer. I guess Monk escaped that because it was the baby of the last expansion, but it's grown up now, the fun is over. It got a repetitive dead end job like the rest of the healers. Meanwhile disc priest is exploring its dream job of being an atonement healer again, but it'll be back. They'll all be back. Kind of sad. I -SPECIFICALLY- resubscribed just to play a fistweaving monk, because it's the funnest thing happening in MMOs right now. Being so dynamic in a raid, switching from high serpent stance healers to optimizing my dps/healing in crane stance was probably the funnest thing I've ever done in WoW, seconded only by spot healing the raid by using healing touch and tranquility while tanking as a bear in MoP. But fun obviously isn't their goal. They just lost half their subs and they're going to lose another next expansion because of this.Tyokâ0 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 MW, Damage Dealing, and the Future One of the things I enjoyed about mistweaver was the ability to dps in content that I had far outgeared while also keeping the group alive. We have been told that all healers will be able to do much better damage (although not competitive with actual dps specs). Does that mean that I can ReM the group, cast a quick heal on the tank, and then dps as my soothing mist continues to heal him? Or will my dps moves (that now provide no healing, thanks a lot for ruining the fantasy) interrupt the soothing mist passive? What I'm trying to get at is, will I still be able to keep the group alive while I try to pad meters when I outgear 5 mans.Drpeanut7 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 WW into Legion Hey guys so I actually am loving some of what I was reading for WW! IDK how I feel about FoF not mentioning a stun but besides that I kinda am digging it! But when I read that ret is getting a FLIPPING BLINK!!! and the revamp to surv hunters I feel kinda annoyed that monks arent brought back to their glory days of MoP What are your guys thought and the ww changesMurrek21 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 Not impressed with Mistweaver Changes I can't say I'm excited for Mistweaver changes after reading the blog. Fist Weaving, Uplift, Soothing Mist all where cool to me. Having abilities change based on whether your channeling or not was neat, it made channeling this spell feel pretty neat in a way where most other channel spells don't. Renewing Mist / Uplift was a satisfying combo, the ability to HoT a bunch of players, and then see an explosion of green numbers was something I really enjoyed as well. And then Fistweaving was fun more or less because it gave me an alternate way to play the class. If I didn't feel like sitting back with the ranged for a fight, I could run up and punch the boss, but still be fulfilling my role. Now from the blog post, it just looks like a holy priest with Mist instead of Light themed abilitiesKyssindre42 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 Super Excited for Mistweaver Changes!! Seriously, this is the first blog post where I'm excited for the healer changes. I cannot wait to try out the new spell interactions and gameplay! I disliked fistweaving so I'm incredibly happy to be focused on pure healing/HoTs now. What are your thoughts on the changes? Here's the list for reference: ...Iration42 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 My MW Feedback I've never given feedback to a class before now, I've always dealt with what was told and given out and never put in my two cents. However, I feel like I'd be doing the Mistweaver community a disservice by not voicing my opinions on the new Mistweaver monk overhauls. I'd like to break this feedback into three sections: The Fantasy, The Utility, and The Gameplay. The Fantasy When the monk class came out in Mist of Pandaria the fantasy was to have a martial arts healer who could heal their allies with soothing mist like powers that came from the core of Pandaria itself while also damaging enemies. They were supposed to be quick, able to deal punishing blows with the lightest of touches. The difference between them and discipline priests was that mistweavers would be the first healers to be able to do this as a melee. Adding to the fantasy, mistweavers would be able to avoid most ranged mechanics making them feel slippery and elusive like the monks were portrayed to be. This obviously was a very hard concept to tune as doing too much damage would make the class OP, why bring any other healer when the monk can heal just as much as a resto druid but also do a significant amount of damage? We saw throughout the expansion, mistweaver's fistweaving get tuned mostly through numbers and minor gameplay adjustments, but the fantasy of the spec remained there. As Warlords came into play, I feel like (even though I never liked the concept myself) Blizzard added to the fantasy by creating a separate stance for fistweaving, giving them a hybrid feel. Now you had more abilities to chose from rather than the original (jab jab uplift). They gave us Rising Sun Kick to stick into our rotation and the stance felt like a dps spec. The idea that when you were in crane stance you could not cast any heal but only could heal through damaging an enemy gave the monk fantasy an upstart. Granted, it ended up being a terrible idea unless you had some sort of dps buff (thinking of the HFC council fight) but it was still a coveted option when there was no healing to be done. Now with Legion, Blizzard is saying they want to bring the classes back to their fantasy and yet they take away what they originally defined our fantasy to be? No more can we attack a boss from melee to heal our allies but we will instead stand resolutely in the ranged group far from the boss like a tame druid? In my mind there were so many better options if their ultimate goal was to keep the fantasy of the class. Why couldn't Blizzard have made the damage of fistweaving so negligible that it was barely noticed at all on meters and scaled the healing we got from it high? We could then have still sat in melee and attacked the boss while doing the same amount of healing as any other healer and kept our fantasy alive. I was never a fan of fistweaving or doing damage to heal, but it was the fantasy that defined the class. Now what is it that defines us? The word "Mist" that graces many of our healing spell names? The Utility Utility is an extremely important part of enjoying your time playing World of Warcraft. Whether Blizzard likes it or not, people will be brought into organized raid groups based on their class utility and this will be even more problematic the more cross realm they start to incorporate into the raiding experience. At least if raiding was limited to your realm you may be able to get into a raiding group with a class that has limited utility because people know you and may know that you play the class well even though the class itself is lacking in essentials. With cross realm raiding and the group finder tool, most people end up raiding with people they do not know and find themselves trying to convince the organizer to let them into the group. Why would a group want to bring a Mistweaver Monk when they could have a Restoration Shaman instead? What do Mistweavers have that would make a raid leader consider taking one over another healer? If you don't have something, then you will have a hard time convincing anyone to take you over a class that may be superior and therefore end your raiding experience fun. Right now, and in the past, Mistweavers have a decent amount of utility. It's not something many people see on first inspection, but it's enough utility to argue with: 1. Mistweavers by far have the best mana regeneration in the game, making them outshine other healers in longer, stress inducing fights. Everyone else could be OOM but never fear, the Mistweaver will always be able to heal you. 2. They can do damage too! Is there no healing to be done? Are you barely not meeting your dps requirements? Well the Mistweaver Monk has your back because they can switch to dpsing while doing their primary role of healing! 3. Are mechanics getting you down? Are you short on ranged dps? Are your healers spending too much time dealing with mechanics that they are having a hard time healing? Well, you could always pick up a mistweaver, because they'll never get targeted! They can stand there and heal your raid when your other healers are distracted with those pesky ranged mechanics. Now, with the announcement of the Legion changes, what do Mistweavers have to argue with? Granted we have not seen all of what Blizzard has in store but it's looking like our three biggest arguments have been shunted out the door. No more chi = no more mana tea the way we know it = no more do we have the best mana regeneration. Crane stance is gone, Fistweaving is gone, no more can we damage the enemy while continuing to do our job! Since crane stance is gone and we no longer need to be in melee, guess what?! We now get to deal with the same ranged mechanics that our fellow healers have been dealing with meaning we can't just stand in melee and heal until our cheeks turn blue, we need to actually move! This can't be all bad news though right? Blizzard must have given us something else, some other utility that other healers don't have in order to compensate? It's not looking like it folks. But I think revival is still in the game. So we can mass dispell and tranq at the same time, that's our utility? Oh right, priests can mass dispell, and oh yeah druids have tranq.. I guess we arn't so special? The Game Play Delving into this area is a sticky one, since no one has actually seen how these changes will have an effect on our game play but I would like to share the concerns I am having after seeing what is in store. First of all Blizzard, congrats. You finally have admitted our mastery is bad and done away with it. Only, you've replaced it with the least fantasy appealing mastery I have ever heard of. "Your targeted heals also cause a gust of healing mists, instantly healing the target for a minor amount ". Essentially, mastery makes your heals hit harder. Good.. perfect... nice "adding to the fantasy". Let's not say more on this, I don't think any of us have the right to complain about mastery anymore. What concerns me the most, and which seems to have the most questions involved with it, is our new passive Soothing Mist. It sounds to me, like we're going to spend most of our time not clicking buttons. I mean, I get the idea here, it was a little clunky to have to change our soothing mist target every time we wanted to heal someone but, it was better than sitting around wondering what to do next. Now I really can afk and no one will think twice about why my character isn't doing anything. Along these lines, does anyone know, is our camera still gonna move with this soothing mist passive? That will be annoying. Hazard warning: may get dizzy with prolonged play. On a bright note, I'm no longer stunned/stupified at your "fix" for mana tea. When it was announced that the amount our mana tea gives back is going to scale with spirit I thought for sure it was April Fools I mean, what good would that do in the long run? Now I see there is no long run, well done. And on a serious note, the new abilities sound like "smart" heals to me. I thought we were going away from smart heals and making them more interactive? Vivify: Cause a surge of invigorating mists around the target, healing them and their 2 nearest injured allies for a moderate amount. Essence Font: Unleash a rapid twirl of healing bolts at up to 6 allies within 25 yds, every 1 sec for 3 sec. -- We don't get to chose which? At least with uplift we would know WHO would be healed and would have a semblance of control over it but no, blizzard will do the thinking for us. The only thing I liked about the spell changes was the change to renewing mist. I like the idea that it will not over heal anymore, but I'd rather it over heal and have control on who I aoe heal. Giving Up? The only conclusion I could make by these new Mistweaver Monk overhauls was that Blizzard was giving up trying to tune the Mistweaver Monk using the fantasy we were told we'd get in the class. Fistweaving was either under powered or over powered, mana tea was always over powered and never under powered, and the best one.. uplift was too hard to use? It took too much setup to use? I'm sorry, but that was what made the class fun: the set up of your renewing mists so that when raid damage came out they were optimally placed for uplift. Mistweaver was one of the most engaging healers left in the game and based on what I've read (I will save angrier judgement for PTR and Beta releases) they have dumbed it down to one of the easiest healing classes in the game with little of their original fantasy left.Aselya1 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 Spinning Fire Blossom is back boys https://mobile.twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/status/664550053952950272 In a pvp talent that isSachie5 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 12, 2015 RIP MW I never liked FW, I'm not sad to see that go...and the new mastery looks like it will actually be useful. Everything else, however, I think is total crap. Removing soothing mist as a channel, and along with it pretty much every synergy that made the spec fun and unique. Why did you feel it was necessary to go full-Frankenstein here? Why would someone now play MW as opposed to the holy/resto specs it seems to have borrowed mechanics from, when the other two classes both do what they do better than MW?Carpecervisi8 Nov 12, 2015
Nov 11, 2015 RIP Fistweaveing I so sad to see fistweaveing is gone. It was the only thing I like about the Monk. When they first came out I lvled one to 90 only to find out it wasnt viable. I really wish Bliz would have made it a 4th spec for Monks.Zaylin0 Nov 11, 2015
Nov 11, 2015 Since Fistweaving Is Gone I have mained FW for the last two expansions and am incredibly saddened with the removal of FW from the mistweaver playstyle however I understand. I could never be competitive for end game content. I ended up sticking to LFR because I just enjoyed the playstyle more than being in actual healing stance. So blizzard I understand. If you are going this route than I propose this change to make up for the removal of Fistweaving. Change all Statues to a single talent tier for all monks with the following changes. Statue of the Black Ox Summon a Statue and the targeted location. An avatar of the black ox will appear and remain tethered within 10 yds of the statue. The avatar will taunt any enemies within 10 yds of the statue. The avatar will gain an absorb shield for x% of all damage and healing you do. (mostly useful for world content to keep mobs of you) (tanks can use this talent to place a statue near healers to taunt enemies that might break free and run towards your healers, tanks should still be allowen to taunt the statue to steal aggro back from the avatar) Statue of The Jade Serpent Summon a statue that creates an avatar of the jade serpent. The avatar will heal a friendly target for x% of all damage and healing done by the monk. Statue of the White Tiger (replaces xuen talent) Summon a statue that creates an avatar of the white tiger. The avatar will cast lightning at nearby targets for x% of damage and healing done. These changes will give all monks the ability to choose between having a pocket tank, some off heals no matter your spec or a damage boost when needed.Mitshi0 Nov 11, 2015
Nov 11, 2015 Tweet Tweet fellas https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevsZåx1 Nov 11, 2015
Nov 11, 2015 Blizz mw is not a druid... While I am trying to hold judgment until beta on where mistweaver ends up, here are some thoughts on the preview that was posted. ... Right off the bat it sounds like blizzard doesn't understand that the current setup really flows well with the lore that they posted with the mistweaver section. The current setup method that we have fits extremely well into the `inner tranquility that guides mistweavers` lore and is why I enjoy playing mistweaver. ... Since you turned disc priests into this why don't you say what you are actually doing: we don't like the fact that we have to classify mistweavers as melee dps and end up with mechanics that they can completely ignore. A specific example being `Fel Incineration` on Shadow-Lord Iskar. I completely understand this having all healers deal with mechanics equally creates a fair playing field. However being in melee should create different challenges as a healer where it currently doesn't. Being able to switch back and forward between a dps style or more relaxed healing style is a cool mechanic that I'll miss. It gave me a lot of choices depending on my mood or fight. ... ok so you are taking away the orbs. and instead providing us with a mastery that provides a minor boost to our direct healing? um what? I see how this fits into the lore but this is lame there doesn't seem to be any thought behind this at all. Holy paladins get a boost to healing for being closer to the target (or the beacon) Shaman have a boost based on how much health they are missing. ours is just a static direct boost to TARGETD heals? does it proc off hots? does it proc off hots from a non targeted (Essence Font) spell? ... A player isn't going to be under full health for very long and in a situation of full sustained damage I am going to be jumping between targets quickly or moving so i'll be lucky to get more than one or two ticks off. The reason the gcd version is effective is for predictive spike damage i can pre-apply soothing mist so that my Surging Mist is instant. (this of course is counter to your stated design goals as no setup for mw) ... Not much to say about these two. Effuse is a standard healer spell to replace our soothing mists gcd cast. Enveloping Mist 6 seconds? 6 seconds is a long time. especially when it buffs (other?) healing from mw spells by 30%. ... cool so we become a mini lightwell while this is channeled. as a healer i don't like channeled abilities way to easy to mess up especially when someone walks out of range. This won't proc our mastery will it? it's not a targeted heal.... ... it's like our wild mushroom but it's on a player. This is interesting. The buff probably won't trigger the mastery either... ... Reverse lifegrip with a heal. cool a fun ability that fits the monk roll style. so over all I think you are sticking us between druids and shaman for healing, and forcing us to take a ranged position. I'll miss the setup healing style that we currently have and i'll look forward to reading about changes in the months to come hopefully you'll give us a more inspirational mastery...Thuli0 Nov 11, 2015
Nov 11, 2015 The real question Mistweavers must answer is: Given the fact we are being entrusted with a most powerful ancient artifact, that the emperor himself wielded against mighty foes.. Breathtaking in its beauty, dripping with green moist misty goodness... WILL IT STILL HANG UPSIDE DOWN UPON OUR BACKS??? and if so...who else gets a gravity defying bell? what did we do to deserve such limitless power?!?Tao0 Nov 11, 2015
Nov 11, 2015 Mistweaver worries in under 2k words =P In a sense I like some of the changes because it sounds like it is going to be a lot easier to heal but the whole reason I chose to play a Mistweaver is because of the complexity and the interacting abilities. There are some neat abilities in there but it feels as if we are getting pushed to the norm of healing. While our single target healing output was pretty meh, it was interesting. There are no other healers, or dps for that matter, that channeled an ability which made certain spells instant cast and did not interrupt the channel. I don’t feel great about Effuse as it is obviously flash heal, but do we need it? With the other changes, yeah it is probably a must have. Did Soothing Mist, Enveloping Mist, and Surging Mist need to change, though? No, I don’t think so. Maybe they are trying to make us more Zen since Mistweavers have a very hyperactive healing style, constantly switching between single target, raid healing, and dps modes, but emotionally it just feels bad. Interesting Spells What I do like is the addition of Essence Font and Vivify. I think if they had made our current tier set bonuses and Pool of Mists baseline it would have worked out just fine but these do give us interesting replacements. I’ve seen some comments that equate Essence Font and Wild Growth and while I don’t disagree, the channeled nature and visuals I think will make it feel better casting than Wild Growth does. In its current form Wild Growth feels absolutely terrible because you have zero control over where it goes. Just click and move on. I am trying to being optimistic about this one, though. Vivify works like chain heal but I am totally okay with that. Even though you can’t control who else it hits, I have always liked the functionality of chain heal. Wait… they are giving us more control of our characters by getting rid of Chi, right? Aren’t most of our spells just doing their own thing? =P Obviously there are a lot of changes that we are just going to have to wait and see how they work and feel, especially with talents. Loss of Interacting Spells I could get used to a lot of this but what I am really worried about is how they have taken away Chi and Fistweaving. Doing away with Chi makes sense in the greater context but it was a big part of what made Mistweavers Mistweavers. Will I lament the loss of Chi? No probably not. I am not generally a huge fan of builder/spenders as, on a basic level, they feel like a cheap interaction to me. What I do lament is the loss of the more complex interaction between Chi building/spending , mana tea, and over all mana. If you are at least heroic geared at this point in the expansion, Mana really isn’t that big of a deal. From what I understand from mistweavers like Monkioh and Ashleah, it becomes a joke the further you get into mythic. At other points, though, it is an interaction that is really enjoyable. It rewards knowing your class abilities and how they interact while punishing spamming random buttons. For dps this is extremely common. For healers, there is no other class like us. Is using expel harm silly? Absolutely, it feels like using a lower level spell for mana efficiency again. Remember that fellow healers? But being able to use mana tea feels like a reward for doing well, not a punishment for doing badly. Up to this point tl:dr is “Why are you taking away our interacting spells? They made us feel awesome and unique! Sigh, I guess I’ll wait and see how we feel when the beta comes out.” Now for the important part! Fistweaving While Fistweaving needed some love in the change department, getting rid of it feels like we have lost who we are. First off, what made fistweaving not feel good? Wearing your ring finger out hitting jab. Seriously though, building chi in a builder/spender method with such a weak attack just did not feel good. If it had been a two chi per jab like WindWalkers, maybe that would have felt better but let’s face it: with our abilities being so similar to WW monks, it felt like we were switching stances to just do terrible dps and healing. I think this is exactly why they are doing away with Fistweaving. That and it is difficult to balance. The other thing that made Fistweaving feel bad was the GCDs it took to switch between dmg and healing again. Before I got comfortable with it and boss mechanics/timings specifically, those GCDs scared me to death. Much of that time is going away with ReM / Uplift going away but honestly removing stance switching from the GCD would have mostly solved that problem in itself. Archimonde comes to mind when thinking about not dpsing for fear of raid wide damage and Xul’horac comes to mind on single target damage. There were a few times in progressing on Xul’horac that the tank got spiked down before I could switch and get heals off. Personally I consider it bad late tier raid design to have nothing to heal but tank damage until the final phase and having that tank damage at random points be enough to kill the tank in 2-3 GCDs but that is another topic. The point of that is that despite Xul’horac being one of the most interesting raid bosses in the game, most of a mistweaver’s time on that boss should be spent in Crane; otherwise you are just standing around overhealing or doing nothing at all. When the tank can die that quickly, doing what you should be doing is scary. This is to a lesser extent felt on all bosses, but with a bit of pluck and a lot of concentration, Fistweaving eliminates the downtime healers have always had in a way that is useful to the raid and is a lot of fun to boot! So what is the fear about Fistweaving? At this point Fistweaving is pretty pitiful in its comparative damage and healing. If you buff it though, people start saying “Why bring dps? Why bring healers? Why bring disc priests?” That last one I think is also a big part of why they are getting rid of Fistweaving. If monks can switch back and forth between pure healer and dps/healing hybrid, why bring the healer who is stuck as the latter? I have a lot of choice words to say about this but I’ll respectfully leave them out. Instead I’ll simply say, yes fistweaving needed some work but why did you take it away and give it to someone else? That really hurts and feels terrible. You just took our favorite toy away and gave it to another kid to play with! I see a lot of posts about how people believe it just isn't viable to raid like as a fistweaver but what made Fistweaving truly interesting was the stance dancing aspect. Of course you couldn’t raid as a fistweaver but you were never supposed to. During times of low damage you could quickly switch over to doing damage and provide a steady, low amount of healing that helped your fellow healers not need to spend tons of mana on hots and small heals to keep people topped off and prepared for more serious damage. Was it a lot of dps you were doing? No, it was disappointing, but that can be tweaked. I don’t think fistweavers should be doing the same dps as actual dps in raids, but doing about the same as tanks seems reasonable. They aren’t supposed to be “dps” either, right? But doing an extra 10+ mil damage (currently) over the course of the fight isn’t terrible either. As mentioned in a previous section, I lament the loss of the mana tea building aspect of Mistweavers and this is part of it. I will also seriously miss the ability to move in and out of melee when other healers can’t. As a mistweaver I could fill in the gaps in healing that healers faced when there was a lot of movement necessary. What was truly awesome though was when melee simply got too crowded with abilities, on Velhari for example, I could move out into ranged. What I lament most, however, is the loss of such an iconic part of the spec and all the benefits and complexity that came with it. Final Thoughts So I wrote a good deal here that I think is important… and deleted it because it looked a little too much like complaining. From that, though, I do want to make a couple points. I don’t want to put words into Blizz’s mouth but it feels like we are heading to a healing norm as far as spells are concerned. Our new spells sound interesting and I look forward to trying them out but Mistweaver is currently the one healing spec you can switch to as a healer that requires a learning curve. All of what I have said is what makes up that learning curve and the changes we have been shown make me worry that the uniqueness of Mistweavers is disappearing. The new spells have their own monk twists and no one else has the HoT version of Soothing Mist that we have. But instead of feeling truly unique like we do now, these changes feel like just that, monk twists on other classes, not unique abilities. Since the advent of Wrath of the Litch King, many people have been shouting from the roof tops that homogenizing classes is a terrible idea and Blizz has finally not only listened, but agreed and made classes and specs feel more unique and driven toward a specific fantasy. Mistweavers are already there. Do we need changes? Sure, there are certain aspects of the class that don’t feel good. While I want to wait till beta to pass complete judgement, some of these changes take away the essence of what it is to be a Mistweaver and replace them with abilities that have been tried and tested on other classes but changed aesthetically to make them feel monk-like. In spite of how I feel about certain abilities being given/taken away I remain hopeful for Mistweavers. It cannot be stated enough, however, that taking away Fistweaving is a huge loss for Mistweavers in both capability and the essence of who we are. [u][/u]Akaina0 Nov 11, 2015
Nov 11, 2015 New ww stance animation? Or is that just the mistweaver one on the preview?Mala5 Nov 11, 2015
Nov 11, 2015 Mistweavers: Faith and Fantasy Hi Blizzard. I’m not really expecting a response, or even a overwhlemingly positive outpouring from the community. I’ve played WoW on and off for a really long time. I love this game, dirt and all. I’ve met some of my closest friends through it, and I’ve spent countless hours enjoying it. I’m not the best player. I’m not even very good, truth be told, so I know my opinion doesn’t mean a great deal. What brought me back to the game, which I hadn't played since Cata, was MoP Mistweavers. I've always been a huge fan of wuxia, and watched from afar as MoP rolled out its content patches. When some friends wanted to come back to WoW at WoD's announcement, I thought I'd give it a spin. I read the monk description, and I saw something wonderful: A healer that mixes herbal and spiritual medicine with traditional martial arts. I was so sold on that second parts. I've never had more fun in an MMO than I have had with fistweaving, imperfect as it may be. My best times in the game have been this expansion, and swapping into crane for a quick DPS boost in arena, or dueling at a flag alone in RBGs. In HM and HFC, helping my less-geared friends push through DPS checks and enrage times with that *little* extra DPS. I like the changes proposed to mistweavers. I really do. I think defining our healing identity is good. I like, overall, the changes proposed to our healing method. I just don’t think it’s right to take away Crane in its entirety. I understand that it’s difficult to balance. But why are you letting Disc occupy what was our design niche as a hybrid, and taking it from us? I realize we’re a smaller class (monks in general, mistweavers in particular) than priests, so maybe our voice means less. But I loved playing mistweaver with fistweaving. I loved it in MoP. I loved it more in WoD, despite the complaints. I like the stance changes, and I liked managing my resources with mana tea. But compared to druids, who can still change forms, and disc, which will have our hybrid utility, I think reducing us to a pure healer is a strong disservice to the fantasy of playing this class. In the WoD update, you mentioned that people wanted to play mistweavers for a combat healer, and DPS hybrid. Lots of us still do, even if many find it clunky. You’ve mentioned that you want it to be possible for healers to contribute more DPS during leveling or low-healing phases. I thought that Mistweavers were great at that during HFC. I like that Disc is getting redefined. I’m happy druids have the ability to swap “Stances,” and in doing so, gain assorted benefits like stealth, durability, and CC breaks in exchange for healing. But could you please not take it away from us entirely? Could you let us have crane style back as a talent, or have some way for us to maintain this flexibility, even if it’s not as effective? I know we’re still waiting on talents, and it’s very (hopefully) possible to keep this functionality in there somewhere. I'm sure you'll have something to let us keep some of the utility we brought. If druids are keeping their forms, if disc is getting hybrid DPS, can you please let us keep our fistweaving? A lot of us were drawn to the class just for that reason, and I hope you’ll please, please, please reconsider dropping it entirely. I trust you, Blizzard. I know you can make this work. Please, let us have this.Kexti7 Nov 11, 2015
Nov 11, 2015 [MW] Everyone is focusing on the wrong things Fistweaving is gone. Pretty much anything else too. Woof.Huhxu5 Nov 11, 2015
Nov 11, 2015 Mistweaver Changes... Words cannot describe the happiness the Mistweaver Changes have given me. Inc Re-rollers to Monk :P Stick it out fellow monks, it'll be worth it!Mysticall8 Nov 11, 2015
Nov 11, 2015 Keep Fistweaving. Melee abilities are apart of the specialization fantasy. Even straight for the spec description, "A healer who mixes traditional herbal medicine with Pandaren martial arts." Mistweavers have been hybrid healer damage since their introduction, and its wrong to remove that. WoD introducing the Crane stance made it very clunky, and it did not flow well as it used to, yes. But that is not grounds for removal, but that it needs to be improved. Please reconsider.Kari30 Nov 11, 2015
Nov 11, 2015 Preview of MW Breakdown (They killed MW) The Mastery change is still in the works since you can see they don't even have an estimate for how much the "minor amount" is. It's like an Instant Echo Of light (Holy priest master) which i was never a fan of the Hot but it's better than what we got so, ok I guess? Mastery: Gust of Mists Your targeted heals also cause a gust of healing mists, instantly healing the target for a minor amount (increasing with Mastery from gear). This new passive is interesting on paper, well actually no it isn't. (looks like it replaces statue?) This "until you take any other action" is just bugging the crap out of me. Basically we aren't going to be healing directly, which we all know is never fun/engaging. It will make leveling easier though for sure Soothing Mist Passive Your Effuse, Enveloping Mist, and Vivify also trigger Soothing Mist. After casting these spells, you continue to channel healing mists into the target, healing them for a minor amount every 0.5 sec, until you take any other action. Developer Comments Need efficient healing? Cast any heal and let Soothing Mist continue to provide free healing as long as you feel comfortable! Need high-throughput healing? Cast any heal and move onto the next target in need of healing, without spending time on Soothing Mist. For Mistweavers, it’s OK to have open global cooldowns between heals—Soothing Mist fills these gaps. effuse, aka heal...meh, i won't be using it Effuse 1.8% Mana, 40 yd range, 1.5 sec cast A fast and efficient spell, healing the target for a minor amount. 2sec cast EM for 6% mana (crazy cost) but the problem here is that it's more than likely going to be the KING of overhealing, with a 2sec cast you can bet that unless you rolled this out pre-emptively then it's going to be doing basically nothing. Which is why it was an instant cast before while channeling because a 2sec cast time on a HOT that is one of your big heals will not ever tick or heal quickly enough to make it worth while. We are talking 2sec cast + 6 sec for ticks. In 8 secons (or even 3 seconds) how many people are going to let that hot just go tick in a raid? The positive here though is that at least you can put it on the OT and MT periodically when you KNOW they are about to take huge damage but outside of that...ewww Enveloping Mist 6.0% Mana, 40 yd range, 2 sec cast Wrap the target in healing mists, healing them for a huge amount over 6 sec, and increasing healing received from your spells by 30%. This (ReM) is basically like a lifebloom type of ability except we can put it on multiple people instead of just 1 and a different condition. Renewing Mist 3.5% Mana, Instant, 6 sec cooldown You surround the target with healing mists, restoring a huge amount of health over 20 sec. If Renewing Mist causes any overhealing, it will travel to the most injured ally within 20 yds. When Renewing Mist heals, it has a 4% chance to increase the healing of your next Vivify by 50%. Essence Font, looks stupid. It doesn't talk about how much the channel costs per tick so that really skews a lot already. Is it 8% per tick? If so then forget about using this ability outside of 1 sec at a time. The range is obviously messed up because it says -40 yd range- and then in tooltip says 25yds...Which is it? Again the tranquility like effect is cool i guess but it's going to setup for a lot of overhealing Essence Font 8.0% Mana, 40 yd range, Channeled Unleash a rapid twirl of healing bolts at up to 6 allies within 25 yds, every 1 sec for 3 sec. Each bolt heals the target for a moderate amount, plus an additional moderate amount over 8 sec. Basically a Binding Heal + 1 (or glyphed binding heal). Not impressed Vivify 5.0% Mana, 40 yd range, 1.5 sec cast Cause a surge of invigorating mists around the target, healing them and their 2 nearest injured allies for a moderate amount. Overall, a cross of druid healing and holy priest. Now after the shock has worn off i can look at this for what it is, GARBAGE! I wasn't mad before, confused for sure until i started looking at how the abilities interact with each other and it's EXactly like a Holy Priest and we KNOW how they did this xpac. Everything here is setting us up to be kings of Overhealing, i mean it. There isn't any other nice way of saying it; we are not going to be good. I wrote something a few days ago about how they are going to destroy us and gimp the crap out of us and that is 100% what this is. They made us like everyone else only WORSE. we have essentially echo of light tied into like 3 of our major abilities and 2 of them will almost always be guaranteed useless (EM and the new REM) while the third is a passive that will be useless. If i wanted to play a Holy Priest, which was my original healer back in cata; I would still be playing it. If i wanted to play a Resto Druid, who's gameplay I loathe; I would be playing it. These changes just at their core, sets us up for failure. Long cast time hots are NEVER good, ever. Having things proc off of OVERHEAL?? That's stupid, i can't say anything else other than that. More than likely our new raid healing will be this...Casting Vivify as much as possible (pseudo hpal, beacons), that's it; you COULD roll an EM on them..but why? In the time you casted 2 EMs (4 seconds) you would've cast 2 and a Half Vivify. Do you like spamming 1 button while you heal a raid? That's what we will be with these fixes because all the rest are garbage. Yeah you could use Essence Font, but why? It heals 6 people for massive healing, cool but it also costs a massive amount. I spread cast Vivify around and will get the same effect and get better effective healing consistently How to play MW in Legion? Spam Vivify on Tanks and stack spirit /endJonnycraig9 Nov 11, 2015