General Discussion

Nov 7, 2017 NOW LIVE: World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth Azeroth paid a terrible price to end the apocalyptic march of the Legion’s crusade—but even as the world’s wounds are tended, it is the shattered trust between the Alliance and Horde that may prove hardest to mend. As this age-old conflict reignites, join your allies and champion your faction’s cause—Azeroth’s future will be forged in the fires of war. In World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth, you must declare your allegiance. ----- Trailers and Media: World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth - Cinematic Trailer World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth - Features Trailer ----- Recruit Allied Races Explore Azeroth as one of six new playable Allied Races, including four you've encountered in your campaign against the Legion. Embark on a quest to earn their favor and unlock each race, adding their strength to your faction. Create a new character and complete the full leveling experience to earn a distinctive Heritage Armor set. Learn more about Allied Races here. New Continent - Kul Tiras As a hero of the mighty Alliance, journey to the seafaring kingdom of Kul Tiras, home of Jaina Proudmoore. Untangle a web of betrayal and dark magic as you encounter power-hungry pirates, witches wielding death magic, mystical sea priests, and more. Explore the stony peaks of Tiragarde Sound, trek across Drustvar’s high plains and red forests, and navigate the intricate inland canals of Stormsong Valley as you convince this fractured kingdom to join your cause. New Continent - Zandalar Prepare the Horde for war by recruiting the ancient empire of Zandalar. In this troll-dominated territory, ancient evil waits to be unleashed on the world as you battle crazed blood-troll worshippers, gargantuan dinosaurs, and titan constructs. Discover Zuldazar, the oldest city in Azeroth; unveil the bleak swamps of Nazmir; and traverse the deadly deserts of Vol'dun. Plunder Uncharted Islands Set sail for the previously unmapped isles of Azeroth. Battle in groups of three as you race against cunning rival intruders—or enemy players—to collect the island’s resources. Constantly evolving challenges await as you traverse frozen landscapes near Northrend, open the gates of an abandoned Gilnean castle, navigate a war between elementals and more. Storm the Warfronts Head to the frontlines and take part in a large-scale 20-player cooperative Warfront to claim a key strategic location. Build up your faction’s forces, lead the charge as your troops lay siege to the objective, and battle the enemy commanders as they make their last stand in this new PvE mode inspired by classic Warcraft RTS battles. Infuse Armor with Titanic Might Take control of the Heart of Azeroth—a legendary neck piece entrusted to you by Magni Bronzebeard. Imbue it with Azerite, an invaluable resource that’s emerged in the Legion’s wake, to customize your armor with new powers and traits. Enter a World Divided New Level CapStop the spread of the Blood God’s corruption, unearth the secrets of a lost titan vault, and much more as you quest to level 120. New Dungeons and RaidsFight through all-new dungeons like the golden city of Atal’Dazar, and the outlaw town of Freehold! Character BoostAdvance a new or existing hero character to level 110 instantly, and be ready to join your new allies in battle! CommunitiesFind adventurers who share common interests through in-game Communities and join cross-realm social groups.Ornyx0 Nov 7, 2017
Nov 15 World of Warcraft Forum Upgrades! As some of you may know, over the last several months we've been implementing new forums for a few of our titles, including Overwatch and Heroes of the Storm, as well as BlizzCon. These new forums allow you to more easily navigate current topics, encourage more constructive discussions, and reward positive contributions to the community. We are now ready for World of Warcraft to transition to these new forums. This Thursday, November 15, the current World of Warcraft forums will be going into maintenance starting at 8 AM Pacific. We estimate this process should take approximately 8 hours. Note: We will be migrating over any active threads from the last two weeks to allow ongoing community discussions to continue as seamlessly as possible. Once maintenance is complete, the old forums will remain available in read-only mode for the foreseeable future, so you’ll be able to easily reference back to anything that wasn’t automatically transferred to the new forums. Here’s a few of the new features we’re excited about: Tracking and Updates • The Blizz Tracker has returned to help you quickly find official posts • You can now easily find threads that you’ve previously viewed • Better text formatting • Threads now update in real time without needing to refresh • Threads now infinitely scroll – no more navigating page by page • The forums will also remember what you’ve read and where you left off! Sorting and Search • A new “Advanced Search” feature will make looking for older posts easier • You can now sort posts by “Top” or “Latest” with configurable timeframes. Notifications • You can now enable notifications for when you are tagged in posts and replies Flagging • The “report post” feature has been upgraded to a flagging system with multiple optionsYthisens49 Nov 15
Oct 27, 2018 Note: Communities and the Code of Conduct Hey all, With the influx of discussion around Communities on the forums, we've decided to set up a new forum dedicated to the feature itself. Please direct all conversation and recruitment around Communities there! On that forum, you can search for a Community that's of interest to you, or advertise for a Community you've created! Players are encouraged to form groups around their interests, both in- and out-of-game. While we recognize that those interests are largely varied across our community, all posts in this forum and Communities themselves must uphold the World of Warcraft Terms of Service and Code of Conduct. Please be mindful that your forum post does not breach the Code of Conduct. This includes bumping of threads, harassment, trolling, etc. We look forward to seeing the Communities that are created as we head into Battle for Azeroth!Ornyx54 Oct 27, 2018
Oct 26, 2018 WarcraftDevs Twitter Updates Hey guys! Some of you have voiced some feedback about feeling a little missed sometimes when it comes to us making or posting updates on sites like Twitter. Since we understand that some of you guys prefer to only use the forums we're going to maintain this sticky thread here as a master list of all of the recent tweets so that you can see when we make them and what was said. I will try to catch all of them as it will sometimes include tweets from accounts like: WarcraftDevs and Watcher himself or any other dev that posts something I think might be relevant to include in here.Ythisens38 Oct 26, 2018
Sep 28, 2018 Welcome - Please Read! Welcome to the General Discussion forum! This forum is here to provide you with a friendly environment where you can discuss all aspects of World of Warcraft with your fellow players. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy, so we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct and guidelines before posting. Code of Conduct: Getting the Most Out of the Forums: Important Reminders: Search The search function at the top of the World of Warcraft community site is extremely effective and robust. Before you create a new forum topic, please be use it to search for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer for which you are looking. Making a new thread on an existing subject can result in your thread being deleted or, if you continue to re-post the same content, the loss of your forum privileges for spamming. Rating The forum rating system can be used to promote positive discussion and even report posts that violate the forum Code of Conduct. By hovering over a post you'll be presented with several options, including a "thumbs up" (Like) icon. Clicking the "thumbs up" icon will rate the post up. If enough people like a post, it will gain a Highly Rated status and appear at the top of related search results. Highly Rated posts will also have a highlighted background. You can also quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of a violation. Please note that you can only rate each post once. Use your power wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community.Ythisens3 Sep 28, 2018
Nov 15 END IS NIGH! Forum shutdown in <40min It was nice knowing you all! Edit: Bamboozled by Blizz? Write Last just in-case you might become last poster btw :)Dawnsong125 Nov 15
Nov 15 Vareesa Windrunner Is it just me, or does she get treated like she doesn't exist? Especially since Alleria is back in the picture.Kelzyr25 Nov 15
Nov 15 Blizzard: Never Give In To Children Crying One of the biggest rules in parenting is that when a child is crying about something you shouldn't give in or else they'll cry even more. It creates a cycle where they will literally cry at everything because they know eventually you'll give in and reward them. Nothing has been closer to this than what the Alliance is doing: boycott War Mode. Now you're giving them incentives for turning it back on which will in the long run just make them cry more. The incentive for having War Mode on should be greater for BOTH factions so players feel crippled by having it off. The problem right now is the bonus is so small that many Alliance players opt-out in favor of increased productivity. If War Mode provided more incentive for BOTH factions you would have actual battles happening on a regular basis competing for those greatly increased rewards. Faction imbalance isn't the core problem here; it's the small 10% increased rewards that are worth it until you get camped for an hour. Ultimately what a fix like this is going to do is going to result in dramatic power swings as each faction turns it on and off each week as risk and rewards change. To have a real impact on participation in War Mode we need to see some core shifts like bounties being unable to use flight paths, greatly increased honor rewards (making actual world PvP a viable grinding strategy), and a greater incentive than just a 10% bonus.Empowerments111 Nov 15
Nov 15 Acti-Blizz's stock is still plummeting ...Considering this is thee sharpest decline 'Blizzard's stock has received since it's foundation, this is quite telling. (Disclaimer: All i'm doing is reporting the fact that this company's stock price has been dropping massively which can in-turn affect this game if it drops to low.)Chilayllenn258 Nov 15
Nov 15 What's your desktop wallpaper? Mine's Shia Labeouf in the 'just do it' squat. It helps me stick to my routine.Gávilar246 Nov 15
Nov 15 The Dreadwake mount is dumb Anyone using it should feel bad.Shadows40 Nov 15
Nov 15 Items that make you mine or herb faster? Are there potions or enchantments that I can use that makes me gather herbs faster and mine faster?Illuminatë16 Nov 15
Nov 15 So PvP vendors for 8.1? This is the second post I make about PvP vendors, but I can't stress enough on how important this vendors are for character progression in PvP. Random gear is not fun, not fun for PvP players, it's not fun getting the same item 3 times in a row from different quests it makes you want to throw your pc out the window. I don't know where was Ion Hazzikostas head when he said having everything in a loot box not knowing what's going to be it's FUN. I want to know what I’m getting gear wise, I want to be able to choose my own damn gear just give us our vendors back. THIS AIN'T FUN! (Don't write stuff like do dungeons or mythics cuz that's not the point, I hate PvE and I hate being forced to PvE to get gear.) TLDR; It wans't supposed to be a rant but I think It came out as one. TLDR2; Help us make our voice heard, pvp vendors PLEASE!Melhart9 Nov 15
Nov 15 enh nerfed by 43%!?!?!? Decreases damage/healing by 43%: Crash Lightning, Crashing Storm, Earthen Spike, Earthquake, Elemental Spirits, Feral Lunge, Flametongue, Flametongue Attack, Frostbrand, Fury of Air, Hailstorm, Lava Lash, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Shield, Rockbiter, Searing Assault, Stormstrike, Stormstrike Off-Hand, Sundering, Windfury, Windfury Attack, Windstrike, Windstrike Off-Hand. Decreases periodic damage/healing by 43%: Crash Lightning, Crashing Storm, Earthen Spike, Earthquake, Elemental Spirits, Feral Lunge, Flametongue, Flametongue Attack, Frostbrand, Fury of Air, Hailstorm, Lava Lash, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Shield, Rockbiter, Searing Assault, Stormstrike, Stormstrike Off-Hand, Sundering, Windfury, Windfury Attack, Windstrike, Windstrike Off-Hand For real? where is ENH rework? 8.1 is a month away and u a nerfing us by 43% when we arnt even that good? and why cant this be hotfixed in? u said in the Q&A that the rotational problem was beyond the scope of a hotfix... % changes are not. WHAT IS THE DEAL BLIZZARD!?!?!Dranosh35 Nov 15
Nov 15 Why do you play female characters? We all know you are men, so why do you roleplay as female characters? Is it body issues? Desiring attention? Please tell us more..Prizn188 Nov 15
Nov 15 What addon is this? asmongold hovers over an equipment slot and a bar appears of everything for that slot. i cant for the life of me find it. thank you!Satuza5 Nov 15
Nov 15 Alliance get 30% xp buff As of 8.1, alliance is getting a 30% xp buf! Thanks blizzard!!Edwaylin83 Nov 15
Nov 15 I really am enjoying Bfa! I really am enjoying Bfa best xpac so far!... I just got level 120 yesterday and am doing the honor bound rep grind and gear up thing. The game just feels polished to a perfection, my class feels fun ... more later. I just wanted to say this is my fav expansion so far. I like the art and the dungeons. I like the zone Drustvar... and the old creep haunted house Dungeon... some much stands out to me as good it's hard to say what I like about this xpac off the top of my head.Muridius19 Nov 15
Nov 15 The Water Strider problem Feels like this is a compulsory mount, and I have to use it all the time. Half the population seems to be riding one as well. A lot of people start screaming when people ask for its water walking ability to be disabled. Can we have a compromise? Make it situational instead of a kind of "OP" mount? How about it moves at +80% speed on land instead of +100%Creeks117 Nov 15
Nov 15 In case they move to Battletag/Account Name Tomorrow... It's been nice chatting with y'all the past years. I've been on the forums since they were first around, through various names, though the main 3 have been Myzou, Reinhilde, and for the past year, Maizou. However, (IF IT HAPPENS, WE DON'T KNOW YET) I won't be posting anymore if it forces us to post with our battletags or account name instead of our characters. My account name and battletags are rather easy to find me offsite with, and I'd rather not deal with the harassment that comes with that. People who know me here know I post rather snarky and sarcastic remarks a lot (Though I do tend to be helpful even when snarky/sarcastic), and although some people like that, it comes with haters too, and I've had to deal with some harassment in the past, both in game and on forums) So if it ends up happening, I'll just end up stop posting on the official forums and move to sites like Petopia, Warcraftpets, etc. full time, as I'd rather nip the harassment before it starts. Hopefully they understand that posting as our characters is important to us though, and that's why the WoW forums have taken so long to upgrade. But in case it does happen, I'd like to thank you all for being here to chat with these past years, as I've enjoyed chatting with y'all, even those times I had people yelling at me to shut up or stop posting because no one cares (like when I wouldn't drop the topic of the fact they had no intention of letting us change our faces at the barber shop after updating character models :P). Even though a lot of people call GD toxic, it's honestly rather soothing to post here at times. There's always regulars I can count on to see posting.Maizou117 Nov 15
Nov 15 See y’all on the other side! Of the forums <3 4 mins left! Wooo woo. Have a blessed day friends:) talk to you all when forums are up :DUghash7 Nov 15
Nov 15 San'layn/Darkfallen MEGATHREAD PART NINE Hi all, the last thread capped at 500 posts. This is a continuation of the topic! Thanks everyone for contributing so much and supporting this race! You're all wonderful, and despite some trolling and insults, we will continue! Note here: Please read everything in the post before responding, we do address many issues in this post brought up by people that end up not reading this stuff at all. If you don't care to read it, don't bother commenting. IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!! If you want to see a video made that includes an artist who modified models with our ideas for this, see here! Allied Race Congregation, crossroads discord: The Big Question: Could San'layn be an Allied Race in Battle for Azeroth? We discussed wanting them added, but they have potential to actually be a thing now! This thread is to show support and share ideas. Please read it entirely before jumping to conclusions! We have a disclaimer below for those concerned about there being "more elves". DISCLAIMER: We understand that many want to see other Allied races first and by no means are asking for San'layn before or instead of others. This is just a speculation thread for sharing ideas and such. ALSO! Please do not enter our Discord and start cussing and spreading racial slurs. It is very immature and I am not happy about certain individuals that have done so. I'm aware that some disagree, but let's be mature about the matter. ------------------------------ We have a discord now too! Please see: Nobbel's video on San'layn lore: ------------------------------------ Original Ideas The Story Let's start off with debunking the myth that all San'layn are extinct. While their numbers are likely low, we understand that a race with a small population can still be played perfectly fine by the playerbase--see Blood Elves and especially the new Void Elves. Ren'dorei are a small section of the Sin'dorei, in fact, that ended up being exiled. Take a tiny fragment of an already extremely small population and make an entire race out of that! Blizzard has done it once and they can do it again if it makes sense. But back to the extinct issue (SPOILER: which is no longer an issue, anyway, due to their showing up in BfA.). Now, we've seen major San'layn leaders destroyed by the heroes of Azeroth, most notably Lana'thel. But we know that not all were actually killed off--the Blood Princess in the Legion expansion is a good example of this. While we do kill her in Violet Hold, she is a good indication that the race is still there and did not suddenly keel over dead upon the death of Lana'thel (a ridiculous notion anyway). I'd like to mention the missing Blood Princes; see: . I will mention their names here, too: Prince Theraldis, Prince Atherann, and Blood Lord Vorath (he was in the TCG so might not be considered in lore itself, I am not sure on that one.) Any one of the above could be ambassadors for the San'layn joining either faction of the current dynamic (I will get into what faction I see them joining in a moment....SPOILER: BfA says a big flag for going red!) We see the highest concentration of San'layn in En'kilah, where we are tasked with offing Prince Valanar. There is a huge concentration of NPC San'layn there, and while many of them could have been wiped out, a few could have survived and avoided detection to further work for the Lich King, only to have their wills freed upon Arthas being slain. I will get more into the discussion of 'will' in a moment as well. But anyway, the concentration of San'layn were only seen as NPCs there as well. We never saw the Ren'dorei in any location, including Ghostlands, until right when they were introduced, and they were inserted as potentially being in Ghostlands at some point in time. What's not to say a section of San'layn were hiding out somewhere in Icecrown? Or Grizzly Hills? Or other areas in the Borean Tundra? It's not that much of a stretch to say strategic forces were scattered along Northrend and then found themselves without a leader upon the death of Lana'thel and Arthas. Now then, would their wills be bound to the new Lich King? Or could they break from the will or even have had broken from the will of Arthas (an odd sect of San'layn, anyway) like Death Knights? The Darkfallen were selected as among the most intelligent of undead. It is not a stretch to say that when the Arthas's control began to fade upon the undead, they broke from him just like the Death Knights. Many simply continued to work for him, but a few could have taken other routes or hidden. We would have on our hands a shattered force of vampyr Blood Elves all around Northrend in this case--potentially being brought together by these princes. What would these elves seek to do? Continue to spread terror and rip people to shreds? Or could they potentially join a faction and, like the Death Knights, be accepted and integrated back into places they once called home? Remember, Death Knights were seen as mindless killing machines at one point, and we've seen that they did regain their personalities back, with one catch of course. They must continue to cause suffering in one way or another. These elves could have regained themselves with that same catch--the need, however, would be shifted to needing to feed off of living races' blood or energy. Not unlike what Blood Elves have to do in general, really, but with the San'layn they'd benefit much more from blood and its magics in general. Let's take a look into more lore. We were introduced to more issues on the vampyr this expansion in Stormheim, most notable the vampirates. They were compared to the San'layn, as a matter of fact, which was interesting... and then Lucard enters the picture. We kill him, and he says, "I.. am not... defeated...". Then, Mrrgleton comments, "Vampyr CAN be killed, can't they?" What could this imply? Could Lana'thel potentially be brought back, should those missing princes not be used? Did she really die at all--could she have been weakened or actually have drank enough blood of the heroes to appear dead but actually manage to flee while they were taking on Arthas? Again, this is speculation on how all of this could be possible, and who their leader could be. Now, what faction would they join? Who is the most likely to take them in? Easy. The Horde. Sylvanas needs more soldiers for her war against the alliance in the upcoming expansion(SPOILER: They already actually joined the Horde in BfA. We just... don't see them on Horde side. We just see them as having joined them via the Alliance scenario. I will get to this oddity later). Her own kind is there within the San'layn, and they'd be very powerful assets to add to her ranks. She could give them purpose again and a chance to return to society rather than hide as creatures that should be killed on sight. Sylvanas is sure to know about the San'layn and the vampyr within Stormheim. What if she journies to Northrend and sends out messages to these princes, or sends out search parties, or even is contacted by a member of the San'layn who seeks to ally with her for a number of reasons? ---------------- Warning, there are spoilers below. In regards to Dreven recently being slain, there's been much outcry that the dream has 'been killed'. In reality, that is not true--Blizzard first of all never said 'no' to these folk to an Allied Race, and there's so many unanswered questions... We've been looking solely at Dreven as a focal point here, without considering the obvious--we've already 'won'. We might not have them as an Allied Race, but they're entirely possible. People in the lore and roleplay community got it through their foolish heads that all San'layn were extinct. And yet, here we are, with a Blood Prince showing up in Battle for Azeroth. So what if he's been slain. Him merely existing, with more than just him, mind you, shows that they have a presence and might continue to. Consider me this. Either Dreven is from Wrath and a Prince we never saw before, or was created by another San'layn. Let me give scenarios for either one. If he's new, someone had to have turned him. If he's old, it means others have survived as well. There are still two missing Blood Princes, as we saw in Silverpine forest from the questline in Grizzly Hills. What does that mean, then? If the Wrath San'layn left Northrend, they could be anywhere in the world. With Dreven having been on the move, it means they likely are up to something and will show up too. And if Dreven is new, and someone turned him? Same concept applies. Therefore, Dreven's death means nothing. He might have destroyed some Forsaken in desperation for need to feed, who knows. I hope that his betrayal isn't the case, because then it would be bleak, but we don't have the full story yet. Sylvanas blighted her own troops due to the fact that the battle was a losing one and they'd have all died anyway. Hopefully that was the case here as well. The San'layn turning into an allied race isn't a 'no' yet, the Devs have never said such things. I wouldn't even start to despair until it happens. Unless they specifically say 'no, not EVER', I would not give up hope. We're not harming anyone by sharing ideas in this thread and supporting one another. In addition: Allied Races have been brought up and shot down quite a bit. Yet the races being talked about the most right now: Vulpera, Sethrak, Arakkoa, Ogre, and SAN'LAYN(yeah go bats!) have not been sliced to bits yet. There's been so much hype surrounding those mentioned... and there's been so many chances to shot them down. What does this mean? No news is good news, to be honest. I'm thinking Blizz might be tight lipped in regards to the Allied Races they're thinking about to keep the hype going. I can feel it in my wings, trust me. Anyway, there's a huge amount of hope and hype yet. The San'layn show up in the Alliance campaign as a major Horde Ally. They raise a WHOLE lot of nonsense for the Alliance to deal with. But they go unmentioned in the Horde section... there's pieces of the puzzle missing. Get your tinfoil hats on, folks..... I predict, right now, that we'll see more of the San'layn playing a MAJOR part for the Horde coming up. A huge ally mentioned ONLY to the Alliance? Why would that be? An illusion? WHAT IS BLIZZARD HIDING?! Hah, anyway, in all seriousness... I'm thinking there's more to the story than what we're being shown, and have a lot of hope for the future. Keep flying, bats. ----------------------------- And that's just it. I feel as though this thread chain has been generally positive. Sure, we've had arguments break out, like on every thread. This Allied Race is riddled with controversy, I get that. But I'm glad people at least have, for the most part, remained respectful. I hope the maturity continues. People disagree, that's normal. But be mindful to be respectful of others. And I would request respect on other threads too, granted I can't control anyone of course, but disagreement shouldn't amount to griefing. That's exactly what trolls on this thread stoop to. Just simply rejecting an idea with solid reasons is more than enough and more effective than trolling. ... ------------------------ Can't believe we're at part 9 folks, how awesome! Still going strong as a community in terms of idea sharing. Previously we had been discussing what could come next with upcoming data that was found in PTR. Spoilers below: We seem to be interacting with Bolvar more, which could mean something for our wayward vampires. Also, it was speculated that the San'layn could be the culprits behind how the night elves are able to serve the undead, since they are indeed working with Sylvanas now as said in the War Campaign.Fallynn493 Nov 15
Nov 15 Farewell forums Goodbye!!Noobacleese2 Nov 15
Nov 15 I like it! This looks exactly like the old forum!Heartbreaker28 Nov 15
Nov 15 GD Lounge #197 The 197th Lounge.Averyx275 Nov 15
Nov 15 Guess the Zandalari Paladin Mount I'm hoping for a holy, Loa themed tiger or badass T-Rex. But the t-rex might be too awesome and wipe out all other class paladins in the game. So it will probably just be another raptor =/Prometheium41 Nov 15
Nov 15 Trust in the Fleb Greetings my good forum citizens, with the coming of the forum changes, we will have the chance to post image with the new trust system. So here i am to convince sexy blizz to put me in the maximum trust level right off the bat. I'm a strong and gentle carebear with emotions, I will provide positivity to the forums and spread the holy white knight influence to the peasants of your kingdom. I swore that i will post daily cat pictures for the needed cuteness that the people need and the memes as the whipped cream on the banana split on the well-deserved threads. So put your trust in me and I'll provide quality forum experience. Thanks and have a good day.Flebles16 Nov 15
Nov 15 The Unofficial High Elf Discussion Megathread Alliance High Elves Allied race Disclaimer: This is the Unofficial High Elves Allied race mega thread, We want to respectfully keep the discussion to stay in this mega thread, So the forums aren't contested by 500+ High Elf topics on the front page, any further threads about High elves or Quel’dorei made outside of this thread, will not be the voice nor representation or be in association with the High elven community. As it stands we would like to keep it respectful and for the discussion to focus on the developments and the story of Quel’dorei (High elves) since the last mega-thread. We do not condone trolling from either side both for and against. With this in mind, we’d like to share some comments and thoughts from our community on what we specifically mean and would like when asking for High elves. “High elves to me mean loyalty to friends and family above all. What I want specifically for them to be is to embody the ranger culture that was prevalent in the ranger core of quel'thalas. The classic wood elf feels but to also incorporate elements from the high elves of Stormwind and dalaran giving them magi and a link to the kirin tor as well as paladins. I want those that chose to remain with the alliance for any number of reasons.” - Fliktarg - US “To me, the High Elves are an adherence to tradition, principles, and family all while hoping for a better future. A renewed future. The High Elves have fought for peace and responsibility (especially in magical use as they are fully aware of the consequences) in the world since their exile from Kalimdor. The Sin'dorei, and now the Ren'dorei have all abandoned their traditional views and way of life when it comes to magical responsibility and traditional values. Values which were long intact due to lessons learned in the first coming of the Burning Legion. Those two have worked with and embraced the very forces that the Quel'dorei have long fought to keep at bay. It is as though they have completely forgotten their own heritage to become that which seeks power at any cost, regardless of the consequences. The Quel'dorei have held onto and openly embraced their traditional ways without succumbing to such a low and basal instinct as one would expect from the other races of Azeroth who are not nearly so long-lived and have not learned the same lessons as a whole people. They are unique, filled with an unwavering integrity in the face of even the darkest days and the ravages of the scourge. Instead of succumbing to the darkness of fel and void like many of their kin they have embraced their unique, continuing cultural identity with renewed fervor; never betraying their principles. Never becoming the 'joiner' in the 'if you can't beat them, join them," mentality. They truly are High Elves in name, action, and in continued principles; which makes them an undeniable and unique bright star in the Warcraft universe.” - Arisena Sunsworn “To me, High elves represent the Alliance more than most of the races currently in it. They are a strong, independent people who parted from their kin during the most difficult times. And unlike the Blood elves, they never lost their way. They've stayed true to themselves and to the Alliance. That loyalty is something that most playable races today lack. They have always believed in the Alliance, and for that reason alone, they should finally be their own playable race. And on a more serious note... Their inclusion as a playable race would be a really nice gesture to Alliance players amongst the current hostility. Sometimes, it feels like Blizzard is putting Horde players' opinions first with every new feature. For once, I'd like to see them put the Alliance first, and give us something of actual value. Give us something that makes us proud to be playing our faction.” - Stephanië US “High Elves, why should they be added? Well in my opinion not because of what they are, but because of what they represent. High Elves were always deeply connected with azerothian humanity and served as something like (analogically) its older cousins. They tutored humankind since its very origin in Arathor and continued to teach other (now Alliance) races and nations about the world. It's because of them that Alliance exists in its current form and i feel like it's really shame that they can't be officially part of what they helped to build.“ - Spinel EU High Elves are the Elves who choose loyalty over nationality. People who chose their friends over their brethren. They are the elves who overcame the mana addiction without fel magic. I want them because they have a lot to bring to the lore of Warcraft and represent a missed opportunity at deepening the story behind the Alliance/Horde conflict Also, Elves just belong with humans dwarves and gnomes - Enariel (CrazedRaven) - US Overview of what has been done to High Elves in BFA Now we are going to move onto, High Elf NPC’s in Through BFA beta,Live & PTR, Multiple High Elf NPC’s have been added. -Let’s start with Frostfencer Seraphi, Who is part of the Island team, <Auric’s Angels> Which can only be referencing Auric Sunchaser. ( -Next we have Two new High Elf NPC's in BFA Islands expendtions.( ) -We also have Yvera Dawnwing, A portal master in Bourlas and Stromgarde keep. Where she is a quest giver. ( -Lastly we have the High Elf 7th Legion shield mages, on the Stromgarde keep, warfront airship ( Speculation on the future In the recent weeks, there have been some in-game ‘leaks’ related to potential upcoming Warfronts. The text can be seen via typing: ... in the in game chat box which shows this text: ... The text describes possible Warfronts including a potential Silvermoon Warfront. As the High Elven people originate from Quel’thalas, this Warfront is a perfect opportunity to showcase Veressa and the Silver Covenant on the Front lines fighting alongside the Alliance in an attempt to reclaim their homeland. Within the High Elf Community Discord ‘The Legacy of the Quel’dorei’, there have been discussions regarding what this Warfront may entail. Without getting into too much detail, here are some potential ideas: -The Warfront revolves around the war between the Elven factions - Blood Elves, Nightborne and San’layn (for the Horde) against Night Elves, Void Elves and High Elves (for the Alliance). -The Warfront includes some form of emotional response from the Blood Elves as they remember the Scourge Invasion of Quel’thalas. -Portrayal of comparisons between Arthas and Anduin. - A potential betrayal from within Quel’thalas just as Dar’khan Drathir betrayed Silvermoon during the Third War. This has been speculated to be Halduron Brightwing, as he is someone of importance and also has relations with Veressa and Alleria Windrunner since he was a child. It also gives an opportunity for Liadrin to replace Halduron as her character has become quite significant. - Potential Commanders for the Warfront could include Alleria, Vereesa or Auric for the Alliance whilst Lor’themar, Rommath or a potential San’layn for the Horde. Note, whilst not all suggestions may necessarily entail High Elves, the ideas are in regards to an opportune time for the High Elves to be added as an Allied Race. Types of Alliance allied High elves For clarification, the High Elves which are being requested are NOT the Elves from Quel’thalas. Instead come from ideally the Silver Covenant, however, can come from Lodges throughout Azeroth or Stormwind for example. But, the ideal situation are those from the Silver Covenant. ... The Silver Covenant was first introduced in the expansion Wrath of the Lich King and, since then acted with the Alliance across many events within the Alliance War Campaign throughout expansions. (More information will be listed below) There are currently 48 named Silver Covenant High Elves whom have interacted with players, including other unnamed members which supply forces to the Alliance military such as the 7th Legion Battlemages as a singular example. Other concentrations of High Elf NPCs include places such as Quel’danil Lodge - whom work with Alliance Adventurers (the player) to rid Forsaken invaders from it’s lands. The Lodge is the larger of two major populations within Lordaeron. High Elves are also found within Stormwind - particularly the Mage Quarter. The City of Dalaran as well as the Allerian Stronghold within Outland. Patches High Elves have played a role. ... Links: If you would like to view High Elf concepts for an Allied Race, you could visit our Tumblr page: ... You can also read more on the lore of High Elves and arguments for them as an Allied Race here: ... Or, if you would like to support High Elves as an Allied Race you can join our Community Discord: ... To Conclude, massive thanks to all members of the High Elf discord who had help put this thread together! EDIT: A poll has been created, feel free to vote! - Where would you like the High Elven home hub to be? ...Xyaa4155 Nov 15
Nov 15 BEs are HEs But they should have been alliance. Not horde. That was a major blow by blizzard to their own lore.Humanìty63 Nov 15
Nov 15 How many of you are in a guild only for the guild perks? When I talk to people about this, in game or out of game, I hear: I'm only in XYZ guild for the perks and that's it. Genuinely curious as I'm wondering who would go solo if there was a system that gave all the perks of the guild to you without being in a guild, up to max guild level. Grind to get perks being about equal or hell, maybe a little less than the guild grind. To the GMs who blind invite: how dare I bring up a suggestion? Well, there just doesn't feel like there's a draw to being in a guild other than the perks and big fat maybe to having a community, but then they added a community system where it's almost like a vanilla guild, but without the guild. Any of you in a guild where you never get promoted and/or never get access to guild repair funds?Adeuce71 Nov 15
Nov 15 Warfronts not happy Warfronts are starting to piss me off why do we have to wait a week then wait for a percentage to reach 100 for us to play in a warfront. It is right now the fastest way to get you alts geared enough for LFR and then raids be it feels as if you have to wait 2 weeks to get in to it. why dont you make it one week alliance then the other week horde or get ride of the weekly queue all together, after all its not like its PVP we are facing NPC'sLeucis6 Nov 15
Nov 15 Have you been playing since Vanilla? Have you played since Vanilla? I have been playing Since mid Vanilla and i remember a time when blizzard enabled emojis for a very brief period of time. is my memory totally fried from playing too much wow or does anyone else remember that?Hiddendragón61 Nov 15
Nov 15 Wow this Timewalking thing really shows something.. So this month's Timewalking is TBC, and wow... We can see just how bad the average players have gotten. Your level and i-level are scaled down to fit the content, so there's no question of being undergeared (unless you are wearing something 51+ levels out of date), so how is it that I'm seeing this ridiculous amount of fail in some of these dungeons? The first one I got into was Arcatraz.. yeah granted some of the enemies in there are seriously annoying and people get aggro while trying to skip fighting enemies... blah that was a fail. Then I get a Black Morass that went OK. Then a Second Black Morass and holy crap. Healers can't keep tanks alive, people insist on keeping bosses engaged so nobody can get back up, we *barely* won that dungeon with Medivh at some 50% shield left and 2 portals open while we just burned Aeonus down, just in time. Black Morass is not hard. But somehow, a tank and healer failed to keep people alive during some of the trash waves, and I'm just going "... what the heck is going on here?" Really wish Blizz hadn't put the weapons in TBC to be honest... I was originally thinking about getting 1-2 more characters up and buying them TBC Timewalking weapons because they are 320 when bought right off the vendor (which is way better than trying to find one through WQs), but oi. Apparently plenty of other people hate TBC too because the queues are twice as long as Pandaria's TW was. EDIT: Not trying to be elitist or anything, but c'mon, healers letting tanks drop dead on single trash pulls?Hirai265 Nov 15
Nov 15 City purges Remember back when players would bring diseases or powerful NPCs into major cities and watched as said things killed everyone in the city? Any older WoW player would have probably experienced at least one time this sort of thing happened. I remember these scenarios happening all the time way back then. Oh how I have miss these days. You guys remember experiencing any? I remember when people would kite Kruul into Stormwind. Was always fun watching him destroy everyone in the auction house and such. And of course there was the people who did the same with the dragon world bosses lol.Hella24 Nov 15
Nov 15 What Was Your First Main? For me I started two weeks before bc and I was an undead shadow priest. My order has been: 1. Undead Shadow priest. 2. Night elf feral. Bc. 3. Human combat rogue. Bc. 4. Human combat rogue wotlk. Skipped cata. 5. Undead warlock mists. 6. Undead warlock draenor. 7. Be unholy dk legion. 8. Human warlock bfa.Crookedmán112 Nov 15
Nov 15 Post with your character that has your favorite name Mine is a reference to one of my favorite shows of all time (Scrubs) and is a great name for a Dwarf.Beardfacé134 Nov 15
Nov 15 Attunement Is there really much of a difference from having a long questline, artificially extended by having to fight through mobs and traveling from one continent to the opposite end of another, to grinding out a reputation through mobs or quests?Kedrah1 Nov 15
Nov 15 Why High Elves Don't Work: A Primer (Revisit) DISCLAIMER: This is a thread of mine from August. I'm reposting it light of the coming forum migration, so that discussion may continue as this topic is still somehow being thrown about. After seeing this entire debacle play out since Void Elves were revealed, I have noticed a couple things. Firstly, that Ion, and thus Blizzard, haven't changed their stance on High Elves since Blizzcon. Secondly, that High Elf Hopefuls keep bringing up the same arguments that they claim supports High Elves. Despite our Lead Game Director Ion Hazzikostas stating quite clearly on two different live streams that High Elves don't make sense as an Allied Race, why they don't make sense, and that there are no plans in the immediate future for High Elves, I am here to refute each and every one of the copy and paste points people keep bringing up, and give clear, logical explanations as to why they don't work or make sense, in hopes you all can reach the same conclusions Ion and Blizzard have! Ready? Let's begin! 1: "High Elves are different enough from Blood Elves!" I see this one a lot, but no. Sorry. They aren't. The High Elves went through no mutation, no physical change, no evolution or otherwise genetic alteration after Quel'thalas was sacked by Arthas and the scourge. Kael'thas renamed the High Elven people Blood Elves in memory and honor of their fallen, and for no other reason. It's been only 30 or less years since Kael'thas renamed his people Blood Elves. They are racially, genetically, identical. While people love to think of High Elves as "pure" or Blood Elves as "tainted", which are both untrue, given the recent golden eyes of the Blood Elves, it doesn't appear that tapping demons' magic to sate the elves' magical addiction did anything cosmetically permanent. Blood/High Elves that succumbed to their hunger became Wretched. Blood Elves that overindulged in fel became Felblood Elves. 2: "Blizzard did Pandaren for both sides, they can do Blood/High Elves on both sides! How could it dilute faction identity more than Pandaren?" I'm going to go ahead and say most people asking for High Elves don't play Pandaren. Why? Because they represent the lowest number of players within their own faction out of ALL races. Last number estimates show about 2.5%, per faction. Combined across all of WoW, roughly 1 in 20 plays a Pandaren, whereas Blood Elf numbers are the most populous among Horde races, having been roughly equal to Human numbers in Alliance for most of WoW since TBC. Also, for or those that don't know, Blizzard regrets doing Pandaren as a Neutral race, to the point that I can say we'll likely never see another Neutral race. Since MoP, it's basically impossible to write Pandaren lore now, because their forces are split faction, and we haven't seen them do anything notable in WoW since MoP. Their identity is basically nothing. 3: "High Elves' lore and history is rich enough to stand alone!" Except any High Elf history is also Blood Elf history. High Elven buildings, tabards, crests, architecture, vehicles, weapon style, etc. is Blood Elven except painted blue. The only notable High Elven characters left are Alleria and Veressa, but Alleria now leads and represents the Void Elves going forward, leaving only Veressa. The two have been separate for only 30 or so years. Not nearly enough to diverge or have enough unique history. 4: "Nightborne are just Night Elves, so we should get High Elves even if they're just like Blood Elves!" Nightborne spent 10,000 years in arcane isolation from Night Elf society. They physically changed from the powers of the Nightwell, and their culture changed immensely from worship of Elune. They bear little cultural similarity to current day Night Elves. They are far more similar to the Blood Elves in that isolation around a magical font of power changed them drastically over time. Blood Elves originated as Highborne Night Elves that were cast out for continuing to practice in the arcane. This doubles as a lore reason as to why they find allies in the Horde through the Blood Elves, as they can empathize with their plight. 5: "High Elves chose not to feed on demonic magic! They sated their magical addiction through other means! Their culture is so different!" If I make myself a ham sandwich and offer you one, but you tell me you don't like ham and would prefer a turkey sandwich, I wouldn't turn around and call you culturally different from me. Regardless, as of the end of The Burning Crusade expansion, where Blood Elves were introduced to the Horde, the Sunwell was restored as a font of Arcane and Holy magic, removing the inherent need for Blood Elves (or High Elves) to sate any magical withdrawal. Lor'themar has also continued to allow High Elves to make pilgrimages to the Sunwell. You can see High Elves in a post-TBC-era Sunwell during the Quel'delar questline, and more recently, the Nightborne recruitment questline, where he even granted Alleria an audience. 6: "We can make High Elves different enough from Blood Elves! Look at all these tattoos and tribal motifs we made! Void Elves are not what we want!" Re-imaging the High Elves to all look like extrapolations of some Warcraft 2-Era rangers isn't solving the problem. The problem is that Blood elves are High Elves. The problem is that the fantasy of a traditional LOTR "High Elf" is a Blood Elf. Blizzard hasn't been deaf for all these years when Alliance ask for High Elves. It is NOT a secret, but they likely took a look at High Elves and agreed that they are just Blood Elves in fantasy, skin tone, hair color, origin, and feel, with the only difference to speak of visually being eye color. So they made an attempt to see how they could spin and mix up a Thalassian elf enough to merit inclusion on the Alliance. They made a compromise. They gave it a prominent Thalassian leader with strong Alliance ties, and they provided it with a unique, flavorful aesthetic to set it apart from other races, most importantly their Blood Elf counterparts. In these areas, I think Void Elves were a success. They also currently number greater than any other Allied Race of either faction, so it sounds like most Alliance are enjoying them. 7: "You say there's not enough High Elves left, but there's even less Void Elves, yet they are an Allied Race!" Let's start with basic stuff. Actual NPC numbers, towns, factions in WoW, etc, do not represent canon numbers. WoW is a representation of a multi-game IP. Example: The canon number of people in Goldshire is somewhere in the thousands, where as in game, I don't think you can find more than 30 NPCs. The point being, we don't know how many High Elves are left. We also don't know how many Void Elves were created. People's perception that there's less Void Elves than High Elves is based on in-game representation, and Void Elves were literally just added, so of course there will appear to be less. This has definitely changed going forward as you can already see them in BfA events, and they even have their own Island Expedition team. High Elves, barring a single NPC here and there, will only see less and less limelight as Void Elf stories move forward. 8: "High Elves were there in the Nighthold cut-scene! They represented 1/3rd of the forces there!" The two main factions involved in that quest were the Blood Elven forces under Liadrin and the Night Elven forces under Tyrande. Veressa made an appearance so Elisande could insult her and her people for diluting their bloodline with humans (ouch!). Because she showed up to help Tyrande with a glaive thrower and a few of her Silver Covenant does not somehow equate to being one third of the forces there. 9: "Blizzard reverted their stance on Classic Servers! If we make enough noise and cry enough, they'll cave on High Elves!" No, definitely not, and if this is the reason you keep arguing about it, please stop. The two are not at all the same. The lack of Blizzard Classic servers was causing unauthorized private servers to pop up and recreate this experience, and Blizzard has to protect their IP, so they shut them down. However, they realized there was more of a crowd/market for this than previously thought, so they announced official Classic servers to cater to this demographic. If you honestly think there's as many people clamoring for High Elves as there were for Classic servers, you severely overestimate your vocal minority. 10: "Ion doesn't know his lore. Ion isn't listening to us! Ion should be fired!" While this isn't exactly an argument and more of an opinion, I'm including it here because it's flooding the forums while High Elf Hopefuls go through their stages of grief. Ion isn't Lead Game Director because he doesn't know his lore. He's also not the only person that weighs in on these decisions, though it's easy for everyone to bash him because he is the messenger. Ion in my opinion does what any good developer does: experiment, keep what works, cut or fix what does not. Through the Q&A's, we've seen the progressing stance on unpopular things in Legion like Legendaries, RNG, AP grind, etc. and in BFA, all of these are getting addressed, while popular things like Mythic+ are seeing dungeons specifically designed around it. 11: "If Blood Elf is the High Elf Fantasy, then NIghtborne is Dark Elf Fantasy, and Horde are getting those! They look just like Night Elves!" I would say no here. Nightborne were isolated for 10,000 years from Night elf society. That's as long as it took for Night Elves to transform into High Elves after their exile, leading to the creation of the Sunwell, and those two are obviously different races. If you hadn't caught the obvious, the Nightborne was basically a Legion-era retelling of the Blood Elf storyline: "An elven people (Blood Elf/Nightborne), physically and culturally warped by thousands of years by exposure to a mystical font of power (Sunwell/Nightwell), find their leader had consorted with the Legion (Kael with Kil'jaeden, Elisande with Gul'dan). A splinter faction within these people (Scryers/Nightfallen) rise up to overthrow their leader and purge them from Legion taint and control." The only difference is that Velen reignites the Sunwell, whereas Thalyssra decides to destroy the Nightwell. Either way, they culturally and visually clash with Nigh Elves, who have shunned practice in the arcane since Azshara and The Sundering, having only recently allowed Night Elf mages to tenuously practice since Cataclysm. Back to the question, Nightborne were given unique idle animations, had the Night Elf signature flip jump removed, and given only one eye shade between them. Nightborne get Warlock as a class option. Nightborne also have severely limited customization options, less than that of any Allied race despite being the most fleshed out in Legion. Whether that serves to severely limit their palette, or indicates they were merely worked on first, I don't know. I find Nightborne plenty different from Night Elf, considering the entire first story arc in Legion is dedicated to explaining and detailing this, and given the changes mentioned above. 12: "High Elves being barely different from Blood Elves is just like Lightforged Draenei being barely different from Draenei, or Highmountain being barely different from regular Tauren!" Yes, of course. But unlike High Elves, Draenei and Tauren are not crossing faction lines. They are just more Alliance Draenei. More Horde Tauren. More Alliance Dwarves. More Horde Orcs. The only two Allied Races thus far that "mixed it up" would be the Void Elf, a compromise to the Alliance to get the Thalassian model, and the Nightborne, a compromise to the Horde to get the Night Elf model. Using any other comparisons between Allied Races to merit High Elves is a pointless endeavor, because Blizzard specifically catered these two to be opposing and opposite compromises for each faction. For an Allied Race that "crosses faction lines" a more drastic set of rules and distinction would be required. 13: "All the reasons Ion gives for not allowing High Elves could be used to exclude Void Elves!" I'm seeing this one echoed quite a lot, probably because of Taliesin and Evitel's two videos (which, by the way, end up with the result that High Elves probably don't make sense). To reiterate Ion's main points of reasoning for why High Elves weren't going to work, taken from the two live interviews: -Too similar to Blood Elf in aesthetic (Fair-skinned, tall, majestic, blond-haired) -Blurs the lines between the factions (Both visually, and by population numbers) -No clear idea of who/what High Elves are as a larger faction (Splintered groups) -No hub where High Elves would pull from (Sort of related to the above point) Void Elves, by comparison, addressed these in the following ways: -Changed the visual aesthetic, dark to pale grey skin, dark hair with animated glows and tentacles, vastly different hairstyles, armor type, void skin racial -Ties Void Elves to Alleria's story with the Void, Alleria staying with Turalyon firmly on the Alliance, being the link to bring them into the fold (not unlike how Sylvanas became the link for Blood Elves to join the Horde) -Clear idea of who the Void Elves are, Blood Elven exiles who dabbled in Void powers, Alleria and Locus Walker teaching and helping these people to harness and control these powers. New Blood Elf and High Elf exiles find their way to Telgorus Rift. -A clear hub in Telgorus Rift, where they can study and practice their, frankly dangerous, void powers away from public eye. Reinforces their initial idea as a crack elite squad of Alleria's The mistake people make when they use this line is that High Elves not being playable was because Blizzard couldn't bend or understand the lore enough to make it work. That's just not the case. We've seen Blizzard do major, drastic ret-cons or lore changes to merit inclusion for a number of things. Blood Elf Paladins and Draenei that weren't Broken back in TBC, etc. To think they couldn't have easily made High Elves 'make sense' lore-wise is not the issue. The real problem is that they visually, culturally, and aesthetically were not distinct enough from Blood Elves to merit including them on an opposite faction, and so Void Elves were the end result of the iteration Blizzard went through to give Alliance a "flavor of High Elf". CLOSING STATEMENT At the end of it all the core issue that, especially in Battle for Azeroth, the faction identity is important, as are the races within those factions. Adding High Elves would indeed damage that identity. To say that adding High Elves to Alliance wouldn't cause damage to Blood Elven or Horde identity is ignorance. Blood Elves have been part of core Horde story for over 10 years now, while High Elves have been a "me too!" inclusion at best, or completely absent at worst. Moreover, the High Elves per current lore in Chronicle left the Alliance under Anasterian Sunstrider following the Second War (the one Alleria gained fame in), and any current-day remaining High Elves who did not follow Kael'thas or Lor'themar were fringe groups mostly Dalaran associated (remaining a mostly Neutral city-state). While I know this post won't silence any of the increasingly desperate, baseless, or straight ignorant arguments being brought to this forum, reddit, MMO-Champion, the extremely radicalized/disturbed people on the "High Elven Discord" and the rest of the greater internet, I feel this forum needed a point by point breakdown of the broken record that is the High Elven argument. Also, as passionate as you may be about the inclusion of High Elf, I am infinitely more-so passionate that High Elves stay out of the Alliance, where lore has had them for over a decade.Lydon479 Nov 15
Nov 15 Level Squish Idea & Systems - Max Lvl 60, Forever. Level Squish Idea and Systems Maximum Level 60, Forever. - How it will work. Note: I also have a Reddit post up and formatted, if you would like to read it there: Introduction There has been some discussion lately about how leveling in World of Warcraft is pretty slow, awful, and painful. Especially through some of the mid-range levels (60-100ish). Many have suggested a level squish, which in and of itself is fine, but how would it work? How would Blizzard actually implement it? Ion Hazzikostas stated during the Q&A at Blizzcon: “Would it feel bad to log in one day and seemingly lose all your progress?” Some say yes, some say no. He also said he was open to hearing ideas for a level squish as well. So, what if there was a system which incentivized players to actually go back and repeatedly run old content, and that it will directly affect their endgame character? In this post I’m going to explore some ideas and systems I think could make the future of World of Warcraft incredibly more fun, simpler for rolling out new expansions, and at the same time give players more agency and choice with how they decide to acquire loot, items, transmogs, mounts and more. Breakdown This idea has many parts and systems, and these are the sections I’ll be diving into: Maximum level is always 60 Attunement, Legacy Attunement, Paragon System’s and Alternate Characters Leveling from 1-60 and the new Tier 8 Talent System Gear System Legacy Toggle for Legacy Expansions Dungeons and Raids PvP Application Conclusion Maximum Level is always 60 Ok, first off, how’s this going to work? My idea is to make the maximum level for World of Warcraft level 60, forever, always, fin. Now, before you stop reading, hear me out. Let me explain how I think it could actually work and be better for the continuing future of this game. Attunement, Legacy Attunement, Paragon System and Alternate Characters In order to done with character leveling forever once you reach 60, there has to be some meaningful progression system after 60 for any new expansion and content. As well as a way to tell the story when a new expansion comes out. Essentially, the progression will shift from gaining new character levels after 60, to an Attunement System, Legacy Attunement System and Paragon System. The idea is to have the same system of progression across all expansions, but have two different attunement processes for initially starting the progression after level 60. For simplicity’s sake let's just call them an Attunement achievement and Legacy Attunement achievement. (They can of course be renamed to something more appropriate and Warcraft universe themed) Attunement System This is the achievement for the current expansion from here on out. You will go through and do the new story and questlines, as well as some reputation gains along the way. I feel like a toned down Pathfinder style achievement would work really well in getting you attuned with the current expansion and the story that’s being told. It should definitely be a little longer and more robust than the Legacy Attunement for Legacy expansions. This is an account wide, faction restricted achievement, meaning you’d have to do this achievement with both factions. Legacy Attunement System This achievement will work a little differently than the Attunement achievement. Once an expansion goes into the Legacy category, the Legacy Attunement achievement will be a slightly longer, initial paragon level (more on this in the next section). This is an account wide achievement. For example, if you only played Horde, when the regular Attunement goes Legacy, it will automatically be applied to Alliance as well. Paragon System After achieving the initial account wide Attunement or Legacy Attunement achievements, every character will have access and begin working on gaining paragon levels. Paragon levels themselves are not account wide and are character specific. Only the Attunement achievements to access paragon levels are account wide. Paragon levels are unique to each expansion. Meaning Burning Crusade has a different paragon leveling bar than Wrath of the Lich King. You gain paragon leveling experience by doing anything inside the current or legacy expansion. This includes but is not limited to world quests, story quests, raids, dungeons, any profession (even crafting items) will get you paragon experience. The amount of paragon experience to gain the next level is static (think reputation paragons in Legion). When you reach a new paragon level, you get a paragon point to spend at the Paragon Vendor for that expansion. Paragon Vendor Each expansion will have its own vendor to spend paragon points. This vendor will be the only source for Tier 8 animations, colors, spell effects, passive effects (More on the Tier 8 Talent System in the section below). This vendor will also have specific cosmetic transmog weapons and armor, as well as Bind on Account reputation tokens. All items will be locked behind different paragon levels. Meaning, there could be some awesome Tier 8 animation, cosmetic weapon or some huge value reputation tokens that require a paragon level of 50 with The Burning Crusade in order to buy it. All items will have different values and ranges of values. That paragon level 50 item could cost 10, 15, 25, or even 50 points! This vendor and paragon system could even be used for obtaining rare mounts from legacy raids and dungeons which have a very small drop rate. For a specific example, Invincible’s Reins. This mount could be listed on the Wrath of the Lich King’s Paragon Vendor, let’s say at rank 200, and cost 50-75 paragon points (or more). Obviously the paragon experience gain and the cost of items would be tuned by people at Blizzard much smarter than me. Essentially, this system will have bad luck protection baked inside of it. You run Icecrown Citadel every lockout over the course of 6 months or a year, and you’d earn enough paragon levels and points to just outright buy it, if it never drops for you. If it does over that span, then you can buy something else really cool. In the end, anything people run legacy content for could be on the respective expansion’s paragon vendors. Bindings of the Windseeker, rare transmog items or pets, maybe even special exotic hunter pets too (curse you Loque-nahak! *shakes fist*). Alternate characters What happens to the current and legacy expansions for your alternate characters? Do you still have to do every single expansion in logical order or story progression? Simple answer, no. Once you reach level 60 and get the account wide Attunement or Legacy Attunements a new character, you can jump right into the paragon progression system for any expansion. However, there will still be a reason to go back and work on all of the individual expansion’s paragon levels. Leveling from 1-60 and the new Tier 8 talent system Leveling from 1-60 Initial leveling will remain the same for every new character. You will still have reach level 60 on every character (Unless you buy a boost). However, in doing this, I think it will feel more rewarding to have all your talents and abilities squished down to the original 60 levels instead of 100+. In one fell swoop this makes leveling a new character way more fun and less of a grind to get to the good parts of the game (Endgame Raiding, PvP, Paragon Leveling, etc). Now, onto the real fun stuff, the Tier 8 Talent. How talents, spells and abilities will be obtained There are currently 7 talent tiers and this is how they will now be obtained: Level 04: Tier 1 Level 12: Tier 2 Level 20: Tier 3 Level 28: Tier 4 Level 36: Tier 5 Level 42: Tier 6 Level 50: Tier 7 Basically from level 4, and then every 8 levels after, you get a talent point. The existing trees will stay the same as they are now. The game would just feel better when you gain power that much quicker as you level. I think this leveling experience for new characters and alts will be a much better, more streamlined experience than it is right now. Your spells and abilities will also be gained as you level from 1-60 in a way that makes sense. Which means you’d probably be getting a spell or ability every few levels, instead of having to wait 5-10 for something big. Tier 8 Talent System This is the big one. There is a huge gap from level 50-60 in talents for a reason. This is the final push of leveling to 60, so I wanted this to feel pretty big again. The brand new idea is to have a Tier 8 Talent added. This talent will be themed, and built out based from the general theme of each expansion. The idea is to bake in the artifact skins and color concept (from Legion) into this Tier 8 talent system. When you get the Attunement or Legacy Attunement achievement, you will unlock the base Tier 8 Talent for that expansion. This talent will be different, powerful and as stated above, themed to each expansion. Using the Paragon System, each Tier 8 Talent will have color and animation skins to work for and buy from the Paragon Vendor. Tier 8 Passive Talents will have a similar look and design to how our Legendary cloaks in Mists of Pandaria were. All Tier 8 Talents will have a variety of styles, animations and color choices to purchase with your paragon points. Items from the Paragon Vendor related to Tier 8 Talents are cosmetic only, that way the base talent always stayed tuned. You can only have one active Tier 8 talent, and the menu would look something similar to our artifact weapons UI for how we pick the talent and then modify the color/animation. The main Tier 8 tab is where you will select which base Tier 8 talent you want to use. The next tab is where you select the animation or style for your active or passive talent, and then the next tab is where you select the color for it. After you have completed the Attunement or Legacy Attunement account wide achievements on one character, all alternate characters will automatically get the base Tier 8 talent as soon as they reach level 60 (and are of the same faction for the current expansion’s Attunement achievement). The breakdown of themes is based on the overall general theme for each expansion and then each class/spec will have one Tier 8 talent for each expansion. That’s right! 36 different Tier 8 talents per expansion, and an initial 288 total unique talents across all 8 releases, vanilla and 7 expansions. I know I know. The initial rollout will be crazy huge, but then each new expansion from here on out is just 36 new expansion themed talents and will roll right into the Tier 8 Talent and Paragon Systems. (Sidenote, and optional idea, since this would be a TON of work: individual class/spec very short questline (6-7 quests) or a scenario to get the attunement for that class/spec Tier 8 Talent. Legacy Attunement quests will be optional after the fact. This provides another element of storytelling, similar to how unique and individual the artifact quests were. Maybe these are all optional after the attunement and give tremendous paragon experience.) Now, you may be asking yourself, what would some of these talents look like? I’ve explored some ideas below. (Please note: These are just ideas from the top of my head just to get the picture of how they might work, obviously some will either be too strong, too weak or not exciting at all. If the names aren’t good, they can be changed too, of course.) I couldn’t get the HTML formatted correctly for the specific examples I came up with, but they are all located in my post on Reddit. Here is the link again: Gear System With the level always being 60, how exactly will gear work for progression now? Gear ilvl will reset each new expansion release and you will then progress up the ilvl ladder again. (Note: All enemies across every expansion will scale to your ilvl. Just like it does now in BfA.) Gear will be tagged by expansion and labeled as “legacy gear” when the new expansion hits. All legacy gear will essentially become cosmetic gear. If we pick arbitrary numbers, let’s say all legacy gear is maxed out at ilvl 100. Each raid tier increases by 100. So if you have 3 raid tiers, the max level for that expansion is 400 by the end. Note: I personally don’t like titanforge or warforge RNG. However, keeping that system in the game could allow for some interesting mechanics during each raid tier and at the end of an expansion to push your ilvl beyond the max for that raid tier. Legacy Toggle for Legacy Expansions dungeons and raids What about legacy world content, dungeons and raids? Of course I didn’t forget about them. My love of running old content is kind of what got me started developing this whole idea. With the max level permanently 60, you can always go back and experience those raids and dungeons as they were when the expansion was live. However, when an expansion goes legacy (and after you have achieved the Legacy Attunement on your account), you will get a Legacy Toggle for your character before going into the expansion’s open world, dungeons and raids. This will work solo or in a group and will be located in the same area of the UI where you select 10, 25, Heroic, Mythic, etc. The Legacy Toggle will scale you up in that expansion’s world content, dungeons and raids. Just as it does now. Therefore solo farming legacy content for transmogs, pets, mounts will stay the same as it is today. You will still gain paragon experience when running content in legacy mode solo, but if you are a group or raid and have the Legacy Toggle turned OFF, you will earn a bonus paragon experience multiplier for your groups efforts. PvP Application The Paragon System will be applied to PvP as well. We already have separate PvP talents, and adding a PvP Paragon System with gaining honor and pvp paragon experience/levels will earn a point towards the PvP paragon vendor for PvP Talents, items and cosmetics. Conclusion Well, there it is. That’s how I feel a level squish system could work and at the same time modernize World of Warcraft into essentially a WoW 2.0 model, almost reforging or rebooting the game. In writing all of this out, I kept getting more and more excited because I really want to play the game this way. I feel these new systems would accomplish so many of the things players are asking for today. Regarding more agency and choice with progression, obtaining items, for all of the content WoW has to offer. This would be a great system in rewarding players for more time they spend inside the game. Without that bad feeling of never getting that one thing you spent time working for. Which leads to some of us, ultimately quitting for good, or just until the next patch/expansion. Let me know what you think! All suggestions, discussion and hate posts/responses are welcome.Soarsha5 Nov 15
Nov 15 Hotfixes the Hot topic. Hotfixes are being used incorrectly. They are being used to edit the game instead of to bugfix. This is very unhealthy for the game. A hotfix was supposed to be only done when absolutely necessary for the smashing of cheating, bugs and completely unintended mistakes, such as if a class had an ability that had its decimal point one or two places off. A hotfix is NOT supposed to just edit whatever is strong or weak on the fly. Do not move the goal posts. If a class under preforms you(Blizzard) should take that on the chin and accept fault. You made a mistake, live with it until the next patch if it was not a bug. This is the only way to ensure you will get things closer to right when releasing the next major patch. It is not fair to a competitive PvE and PvP season to have the goal posts moved mid season. Im saying this as a shaman who was basically the least desirable PvE class in the entire game, and is middling power in PvP(Remember, Enh wasnt storming the gates of glad titles until they buffed it in hotfixes.. then turned around and nerfed the crap out of it.) This dev team will never learn to do their job if they use Hotfixing as a cheat code to pretend they did it right all along. Blizzard should swear off of hotfixing class balance entirely. It is NOT good for the game. It is NOT how you satisfy players who's classes are weak. You can only do it by getting closer to right in major content patches and you cant learn to do that if you always have the temptation to "Just hotfix it later". If you cant get it right with 4-6 months of testing and preparation for a major content patch, how do you expect to get it right just throwing around 5% to 35% changes to abilities and class overall power in hotfixes you only have weeks to prepare for at most? Never forget when Enh Shamans got a 5% damage buff one week, then the next week a 5% damage nerf and 33% healing nerf and 30% mana regen nerf. This is an example of just how inaccurate hotfixing is. Edit: PS. Get rid of templates. They didnt work in Legion, they are not working in BFA. No ability should function differently in PvE or PvP in damage or healing outputs. CC should be the only exception and Ive suggested many a great way to deal with that exception. When a player reads Healing Surge and it says itll heal for about 25% of their hp, then they cast it in PvP and it heals for 15%, that is a problem. You are lying to the player and misleading them. Tooltip updating is flunky as hell too. Best solution is to base monster health and player damage off of -player- health so that all abilities simply work in pvp. But youll have to wait until next expansion to fix that mistake youve been making since BC.Vonvulviln0 Nov 15
Nov 15 Wow token limit? i was able to buy 13 tokens on the same day recently, is there a new limit in BFA now? i remember you couldn't buy more than 10 per week beforeKairuimi3 Nov 15
Nov 15 So where's the Alliance's choice? Horde players getting to choose between Saurfang and Sylvanas is a great step forward in storytelling and content innovation. It also totally sucks that only one faction gets to do that and the other one is left in the cold. Beyond storytelling focus or calls of favoritism, it is 100% unacceptable that one faction gets access to unique content with no recompense for the other faction. If faction imbalance is a problem, how is this supposed to alleviate it? 8.1 sees Tyrande defying a weak and cowardly Anduin to go attack the Horde. Where's the Alliance's choice to side with her over a spineless king who won't do anything to help his people?Enekie72 Nov 15
Nov 15 New WOTLK Inspired Expansion? I'm sure I'm not the only one who's noticed that both WoD and Legion expansions borrowed heavily from Burning Crusade. Going through the Legion content, I thought it was pretty awesome that we got to see a more current ICC with Bolvar Fordragon in charge. Since it seems like Blizzard is starting to run out of new ideas (let's face it, MoP was the last expansion that truly felt like something new to WoW), what would you think of the next expansion being centered around the Corruption of Fordragon? It might be interesting to have a "frost-fire" antagonist with the story revolving around bringing him back into the fold and finding a less burdening resolution to the Scourge (as opposed to the "There must always be a Lich King" solution) rather than destroying him. I'm not sure what the new continent would be, but I'd love to hear thoughts on this idea and if you think it's a direction Blizzard could or would go sometime in the future? Thanks!Tyränt30 Nov 15
Nov 15 Everyone stop hating on Blizzard! I understand alot of you have frustrations but keep in mind Blizzard is a company and its goal is to make money and make a product that most people agree with.... They know their will be alot of people who dislike/hate their product... But they stick to their goals and overall design a decent game I like sure its not at its glory of Lich king.... But I still like current expansion overall I posted some things like this in past... But I mean come on nobodys perfect and Blizzard is no excuse.... I know they messed up alot lately and have been ignoring people massively... But overall BFA is still a good game no matter what you haters say. If you agree with what I said about Blizzard upvote if not post why you disagree.. AND YES THIS POST IS FROM MY MAIN TOON!!! i HAVE THE COURAGE TO POST ON MY MAIN UNLIKE THE MAJORITY OF FORUMS USERS!!! ( sorry for caps but had to be caps to get message across)Lizzyon68 Nov 15
Nov 15 Level Squish Since we just hit level 120 Blizzard should have done a level squish. They literally could have cut the levels in half and made each level require twice as much exp. They could have made the max level 60 again.Phawx11 Nov 15
Nov 15 The game is unrewarding to mobile phone users. The app is ok I guess but I think we need a little more to do. Especially with the push to mobile gaming. Some mobile only M+ perhaps?Bokuden2 Nov 15
Nov 15 8.1 IE Doubloon vendor - this is ridiculous Blizzard The Issue and Complaint from launch till now Island Expeditions launched with a gigantic loot table attached to it (300+ items total I believe). Mounts, pets, toys, transmog are all found there. Achievements tied to acquiring items are also present (quest-starting items and pets specifically). That's tied of course to a meta achievement and title. From launch onwards, the most consistent complaint about the rewards was simply about how RNG intense the rewards were (right at launch the drop rates were basically entirely broken, and after a hotfix, the drop rates graduated from being broken to being just generally bad and still heavily complained about). A secondary complaint was also about the esoteric nature of the RNG (people wasted a lot of time on bad strategies trying to figure out how the drops worked the first few months) - it may be fairly well understood now, though not completely. Today the loot system is probably best described as a time-gated, double layer of RNG. (Time-gate = invasion types and islands; first RNG layer = rare spawns; second RNG layer = whether killing those things actually gets you the loot you're after). People still debate whether difficulty impacts reward chance and whether victory impacts reward chance, though the general consensus is that it probably does not. The suggestion feedback Blizzard got Probably the most consistent suggestion Blizzard received about island expedition reward structure was that they should put the loot on a doubloon vendor (tuning doubloon drops to be numerically reasonable for whatever prices they'd put on them). For 8.1, first seen on the PTR, but mentioned also at Blizzcon, they will be adding a doubloon vendor for rewards for the Island Expeditions. But the doubloon vendors have nothing to do with the gigantic launch loot table which was the source of all the complaints. This feels purposefully obtuse by Blizzard. I don't think they're ignorant of the feedback they got. They know what was being said, what was being suggested. To implement something that's extremely similar to what was suggested, but to do it in such a way that it fixes nothing about the primary reward table of the island, just looks bizarre to me. I'll try to put this in a straight-forward manner: when players ask for a system that affords bad luck protection for a particular loot table, they are looking for something that will both allow RNG to come into play, but not let RNG dominate indefinitely. A doubloon vendor was commonly asked for to provide bad luck protection against the time-gated, double-layered RNG system (and its seemingly punishingly low drop rates) for the lauch loot table of the island. You could acquire rewards randomly still, but if you did not, you would still know that over time you'd eventually get the reward through the currency. What was not being asked for: Feedback that was NOT being offered was, "We really need you to implement MORE rewards for the island, and put them on a separate vendor, but leave the initial loot table alone." No one was asking for that. I know there's a temptation by some people on the forums when they see someone complain about implementation of a reward structure to post, "oh look, people complaining about Blizzard giving them more stuff." But I don't give credit to Blizzard for adding new cosmetic rewards to the game over time - that's routine for new content patches. I do give credit to them for resolving problem issues brought to their attention by feedback, which the 8.1 doubloon vendor is not doing. Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying the new doubloon vendor offering these consolation prizes makes the island expeditions worse. I'm not suggesting it should be removed and the items it will offer shouldn't exist. What I am saying is it's really striking how they come so close to fixing the primary issue of the island reward structure, and then just obstinately stop short of actually fixing it. It comes across less like acting on feedback and more like mocking it. I know that's not their intent, but that is how it comes across. Fixing the reward structure problems means addressing the launch loot table I haven't heard of any other actions they plan to take about the launch loot table. Now, I could be wrong. It could be that there's some other significant reworking of the RNG for the launch loot table in the works they haven't announced yet to make it more reasonable and the RNG less severe and less esoteric. If that's the case, then I'd want to wait to see how the new system shakes out. But so far, the new doubloon vendor seems like it's pretty much it, and it's just there to act as a consolation vendor rather than a source of bad luck protection. I recognize that a LOT of other things are probably more exciting to talk about now than this. Blizzcon always has that effect. There's big lore developments, new zones and raids announced, etc. But topics like this are really important, because they focus around the kind of reward systems that govern the day-to-day operation of a central feature of BFA: Island Expeditions. It's disappointing to see the route Blizzard seems to have taken on this.Torvald123 Nov 15
Nov 15 i got kicked out of my guild for bad dps can you check my logs plz hello my guild Benz Frenz recently kicked me from the guild for bad performance and having low dps. i applied to another guild which is also 2/8 mythic progress they said my logs are better than ok. it seems fishy my guild kicked me for low dps and bad performance and whne i appled to another guild they accepted me after seeing my logs. can you please give me feed back on my logs and tell me if they are acually that bad that i deserved to be kicked without even a warning. my dps on MOTHER mythic we used a strategy that we stop dps the boss after we go into the other room ignore that dps even though oddly they mentioned it when the other mage was the last group to enter the room who did most damage while i was standing in the other room doing nothing. check Heroic mostly please also to my item level Nov 15
Nov 15 Goodbye Forum! Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, That struts and frets his hour upon the stage, And then is heard no more.Flatulus0 Nov 15
Nov 15 Azerite powers you like and don't like. Just wondering what Azerite powers you like and don't like. And if you could explain it would be better. Powers I like: - Tidal Surge for my mage because it's an extra fx and makes her appear more magical. - Honorbound flag because it works for whole party and it's a visual aid without having to look up at my buffs. - Rezan's Fury for my hunter cause it makes me feel like I have an extra pet and it procs quite often. - Resounding Protection because who can't use an extra shield - Thunderous Blast cause it's a nice bit of extra damage. - Crushing Assault on warrior for chance at free slam but it doesn't proc enough imo. - Azerite Veins because it adds a little to my warriors survivability. - Battlefield Focus cause it adds damage to all Horde that attack that enemy. Powers I dislike: - Gemhide cause I don't think the avoidance and armor are that useful. - Azerite Fortification cause I am rarely stunned or rooted, etc. - Primal Instincts cause I don't use it enough on hunter to be useful. - Blood Siphon cause it's too low mastery and leech imo. - Elemental Wind cause it is rng which stat it boosts and some are more useful then others. Not chancing it. There are obviously more to add to both lists but those are main ones I can remember or have seen and avoid.Ðoomaxe1 Nov 15