Guardian 5.4 TALENTS Disscussion

Druid
Well 5.4 has been live for almost two weeks now.
I'm a tank druid on my guild. Sorry if I have mixed items on my toon right now. xD.

I just want to hear out other druids concerns and thoughts on HOTW/NV/DOC for bears.
I am 5/14 on normal mode. I am currently around 72% crit when I have all my gear.
First I want to say, ive tried all last talents on almost all fights that Ive done. HOTW and NV.

HOTW is good if you need the extra buffer from stamina or more agility. But Ive have found it a bit lackluster, given that we got a stamina buff.

Natures Vigil, it seemed to me before 5.4 hit it was doing amazing. I used it on some fights that where good stacked fights like Meggaera Heroic, for that stacked phase it helped ALOT. now I don't know if it is me but It's healing for less. I tried it on Norushen which we are stacked quite a lot. and It wasn't has nice has DOC. If the damage/heal was triggered by my frenzied regeneration, or Yseras gift, wich I think it's not triggering it, it would be extremely op. But if you guys have any info let me know.

Now, my main thing for making this thread. Dream of Cenarius. Oh God. How insanely STUPID and GOD like do I feel. For me it's extremely OP. Given it has to be the right fight but wow, I've never love a druid talent like this one. Let me explain this in a little more detail.

Ive tried many talents on Iron Juggernaught, but for some reason I was being stubborn and was using HOTW. I switched after a few wipes to DOC. My god, used a Healing Touch macro with mouse over. Tied Healing Touch to my naga. And fixed some raid frame thingy. And to say the least. I was doing around 85k HPS has a tank.

I think this talent is way to !@#$ing OP, when you get insanely stupid VENGEANCE. On iron juggernaught, with the stacks I had around 320k vengeance. After some 6 stacks I switched with the pally tank. Now, it is pretty insane damage, and given that I was timing my cooldowns. Used barksing and boneshield when meta gem procced. And then survival instintcs. When I had no cooldown reduction available I used Might of ursoc. I had savage defense up most of the time. And DOC was proccing constantly.

I had a healing touch crit for 610k heal. I was using it on everybody else too. I was healing anybody that dropped below 50% hp. And wow. I was amazed, and still I am amazed that this talent is so nice and such a tremendous power on fights that are vengeance heavy.

Well If you guys have any other input, or if this has happened let me know. I want to know what other druid tanks are taking. Even on heroics. :D

Cheers bears~!
I love DoC also, however I don't think it's particularly overpowered. It requires you to sacrifice a global to use Healing Touch, thus lowering your damage. I think for this reason alone it's not "why is this in the game?!".

The real reason to use HotW is for a crazy healing or damage cool down. On Norushen 25h last night, I was able to use it twice. Wrath did almost 13 million damage by itself. It was my top damage =O
well sacrificing one global cooldown it's worth the heal if youre 50%

It dosent cost rage. It's not a hot, it's a heal and it scales with attack power.

Not hitting lacerate or mangle to build more rage or frenzied because of the global to use on HT i think is well worth it.

I may lower a little bit my dps. But seeing that if im having those kinda numbers with vengence My dps wouldnt be low at all cause of high vengence.

And yes HOTW give you an awesome DPS boost, but you cant use two times on all fights =/
I have to agree with Babilonia.

Before 5.4 I was using HoTW/NV and Incarnation with CW. and it worked very well I thought.

Now, once 5.4 dropped i spent about 5 days just playing with talents and running instances to test them out. Finally I settled on Ysera/SoTF/DoC.

Ysera because it's a constant passive heal, SoTF just because I liked the 3 extra rage(it does actually make a big difference), and DoC is a great heal, as Babilonia said. Sure it wastes a GCD but, use it right after a lacerate or mangle(on your self or the OT) And you're Golden!
Anybody else has tried DOC in bear? What do you think!?
09/20/2013 12:04 PMPosted by Babilonia
Anybody else has tried DOC in bear? What do you think!?

It's great when the encounter is well suited for it. Otherwise it's obviously pretty wasted and you're better off with NV/HotW.
it hasent worked well on my dark shamman trys. I will switch to HOTW to get the more stats. But still on iron juggernaught i did 86k hps with all the healing i did. its pretty amazing.
all 3 has their merits

though it is nice now to have 3 almost comparable to one another - rather than stuck to only 1 valid choice

on generic terms, i still prefer HotW as a tank. stamina boost on bear just simply make this better. and maybe just me, i like to use HotW to occasionally blanket me, my co-tank and some healers with rejuv; easy off the presure. or sometimes on the melee packs - sure saved a few close calls in LFR.

my problem though - is mainly how.... 'troublesome' it is for guardian/feral to utilize brez.

it is less of a problem when u have other rezzers around. but when u somehow ended as the sole survivor with brez, that really stood out.

in comparison to other rezzers, guardian/feral have to trade off more in order to do so - even more so for guardian. while feral have PS to keep them in-form, rezzing as a bear is pretty much..... well, not advisable.

i still have moments where pre 5.4, espeacially durumu in ToT, me and only a handful of healer/dps survived the maze - and i'm the only one with brez. now how am i going to rez my co-tank with durumu pounding on my face? Nature's Swiftness ends up my first choice solely just for that on-demand raid saving move. and with the reworked DoC, that utility is weighting heavily on my preference.

how bout this - a rework on brez so they can be casted even while in bear/cat form? just keep the instant options as they are, but allow the baseline spell to be more friendly for bears/cats.
Dream of Cenarius talent for 5.4

Guardian: Increases the amount healed by Healing Touch by 20%. Increases the critical strike chance of Mangle (Bear) by 10% and critical strikes of Mangle (Bear) have a 40% chance to make the next Healing Touch or Rebirth instant, free, and castable in all forms. Instant cast version of Healing Touch now benefits from Attack Power instead of Spell Power.

So ive actually battled ress someone without shapeshifting.
On a side note, trully in LFR its bound to happen that somebody dies and mechanic that bots don't work well. So You don't actually use the battle rez often in normal or heroics, There is usually someone better suited for that. Locks, resto druid instant natures plus brezz or dk or pally holly with simbiosis. So basically i prefre using the healing on somebody else before letting them die xD
So ive actually battled ress someone without shapeshifting.


you could do this before with NS, and NS + Rebirth was much better because you could control when you used it, as oppossed to being controlled by a proc on when you can use it. Rebirth needs to be instant and castable in forms for guardians. it would not be game breaking

09/19/2013 06:28 AMPosted by Babilonia
Ive tried many talents on Iron Juggernaught, but for some reason I was being stubborn and was using HOTW. I switched after a few wipes to DOC. My god, used a Healing Touch macro with mouse over. Tied Healing Touch to my naga. And fixed some raid frame thingy. And to say the least. I was doing around 85k HPS has a tank.


what's the macro you use?
Also, does anyone know how to make weak auras show when DoC procs?

I suck at this addon
Anybody else has tried DOC in bear? What do you think!?


I really haven't tried it yet, I'm probably going to have to at some point when we step into heroics but for now I'll just enjoy using NV/Hotw and being lazy. For the moment there's just something about me that doesn't want to tank and heal at the same time.
what's the macro you use?


I use this one:

#showtooltip
/run if InCombatLockdown()and GetShapeshiftFormID()==BEAR_FORM and not UnitBuff("player","Dream of Cenarius")then SetCVar("autoUnshift",0)end
/cast [@mouseover,help,dead]Rebirth;[@mouseover,help][]Healing Touch
/console autoUnshift 1


It doesn't let you cast HT in caster form using this macro IN combat, so there's no risk of popping out and dying. It's also a mouseover macro so you don't need to click on the target you're healing or rezzing AND it changes automatically to Rebirth (over HT) if your mouseover/target is dead.

Also, does anyone know how to make weak auras show when DoC procs?


Make an icon or texture or progress texture (however you want it to look), then set "Text" to progress (p instead of s) to give you a count down for the buff. Then go "Trigger" > Aura Name "Dream of Cenarius".

I'm sure there are some floating around as well, pretty ones and all that. I'll be going before raid also cause I'm sick of having to look at my bars =)
This is the Weak Auras string I use for DoC:

http://pastebin.com/PerC41Ee

You just go to the "Import" option when you open Weak Auras and paste in the string at that link. The rest is fairly self-explanatory.

If you want it bigger, you can always go in and change the width/height under "Display." It makes a sheep sound when it procs and a water droplet sound when the proc ends.
My main is a Guardian druid, Would it even be worth gearing up again or are they just bad now?
Would it even be worth gearing up again or are they just bad now?


They have been and will always be fine.
likely the only 'problem' being a bear tank, in terms of gameplay, is - the lack of flashy-ness

compared to other tank classes, while we dont lack abundance of CD to push - our gfx/effects tends to be more 'subtle' compared to others

while u can clearly see spinning bones, shining shield or kungfu kick, visibly feel the effects of 'god mode', spot-on self heals or spinning 'street fighter' kick - bears tends to be more.... down to earth

the only more 'visible' part would be the big red effect of survival instincts, or the armor from incarnation
My main is a Guardian druid, Would it even be worth gearing up again or are they just bad now?


They were always fine, it's just people like you that think we're bad for some reason.
As I told my guild, watch out for Guardian this patch. We are now OP as all heck and I am loving it. It's finally out time in the sun. Last night, during a Sha of Fear wipe, the boss literally could not kill me. I finally got mind controlled.

btw OP, what's your macro for DoC procs?

As to talents, I tend to switch out Charge/Feral Swiftness, Soulf of the Forest and Incarnation (Soul for Trash and default, Incarnation when I know its appropriate), and DoC/HotW (mostly DoC as default)

DoC is the bomb.
I tested this yesterday on korkron dark shamans. Pretty nice. did arround 52hps. I know somebody said, that they dont want to tank guardian and heal at the same time. But needless to say. A fight that everybody is spread out and there is a ton of magic damage going around. I found extremely usefull. Even with all the rage that I get going with the crit build, It was way better in DOC and just Hotw or natures. That thing just procced so often it was a basically a sustained 150k Healing touch, if it crit wich it did most times it whent to 250kayish.

Ive been loving my guardian. I stick with incarnation just cause it is a tremounds burst and rage builder. Pop it when you blood lust with agility pot and i feel like im not tanking. i feel like a god mode dps. wich is pretty bad !@#. we have a ton of utility and versatilty. Compared to tier 14. We are EXTREMELY GOOD right now. and that stamina buff, oh yeash. already hit the 1000k hp and i feel extremely godly. doing 160k damage sustained, and 50k hps? oh yes. im sticking to lovely bear :3

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