Why does everyone suddenly hate Jaina?

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If it wants to murder the Players, it's evil.

If a Horde NPC wants to murder the Alliance players, they are evil to me.

Jaina wants to murder the Horde players, therefore she is evil.
08/27/2016 07:53 AMPosted by Threeslotbag
If it wants to murder the Players, it's evil.

If a Horde NPC wants to murder the Alliance players, they are evil to me.

Jaina wants to murder the Horde players, therefore she is evil.


I don't know how you even came to this conclusion. Either you're willfully trolling, or highly ignorant of what evil actually encompasses. Using the term "murder" incorrectly is just icing on the cake.

SoL was right, this forum really is trash.
08/27/2016 08:39 AMPosted by Malvared
SoL was right, this forum really is trash.


well just don't read it,its simple :)
sharing more discord does not help your point and thereafter you're as bad as the one you claimed to be trolling, =/

Note: I read Sol aswell and the level of crazyness found there are the same as here,so don't be Hippocratic just to look ''cool'' .
I understand her anger, but I feel she's being made into a vehicle to continue hostilities. I would explain, but my posts keep being eaten.
08/27/2016 07:27 AMPosted by Kellick
That's probably why her change of heart was met with such a visceral reaction; when the living moral compass of an entire fictional setting tells you you're an !@#$%^-, it doesn't look good.

Funny, because the moment she turns on the Horde, everyone in universe compares her to Arthas, Garrosh and Daelin, who've been universally characterized as unambiguously villainous.

So it says a lot more about Jaina than it does about the Horde.

Yes, because the opinions of a failed warchief, a failed dragon aspect, and a useless mage who has no regard for the murder of his leader and the prime directive of his entire nation being violated by a foreign power are things that matter and deserve to be listened to.
Good god, this thread just won't stay dead.
08/27/2016 10:06 AMPosted by Intaki
Yes, because the opinions of a failed warchief, a failed dragon aspect, and a useless mage who has no regard for the murder of his leader and the prime directive of his entire nation being violated by a foreign power are things that matter and deserve to be listened to.

"Stop concisely demonstrating how my position is wrong, and let me ignore canon as I please, Kellick!"

Okay dokey.
I don't hate Jaina. I hate what Jaina has become. The heel turn that she's gone through since Mists is just so ridiculous, so out of character, so against everything her character has always stood for since Warcraft 3, that it's plain annoying to witness.

Bliz seems intent on turning her into a psychotic !@#$%, and they already pulled that ^-*! with Garrosh. Turning your Heroes into Villains is a great twist for a story writer to pull, IF it's done right. Shoehorning in some hamfisted tragedy to give her a half assed reason to to do a complete personality 180 is NOT the right way to do it.
I love Jaina, but my beef, and I'm sure most others (assumption btw) lies with how she keeps shifting between extremes.

First she wants to utterly annihilate the Horde.

Then she forgives them to the point that she returns to her previous state and points to Dalaran as a symbol of co-existence.

Then she flops back over to GTFO of my city or I keel you all.

The in between situation doesn't jive since even at the end of ToW she outright tells Thrall that things can't go back to how they were.

I'm not going to deny the Purge nor will I condemn it. Aethas WAS complicit and WAS hoping that it wouldn't be noticed. When he got caught out instead of trying to explain the situation he basically sassed back to his superior. Say what you will, Aethas fecked up and then made the situation worse. He's as much to blame for what went on in the Purge as Veressa who executed it and Jaina who put her in charge of it.
I have pretty much the same feelings as the people who posted above me.

I can understand her hatred and distrust for the Horde, but the way is being shown is very inconsistent, in one moment wanting to mass murder all of the Horde and in the next holding her feelings and not minding them AS MUCH as she used to. And is even more evident when you see what happens in Legion.

For Genn to ignore the king's orders in order to attack and take down the Forsaken in Stormheim makes sense. He is as narrow minded as he can get, and he would do almost anything to take vegance on Sylvanas. But for Jaina to throw a fit and leave the Kirin Tor for allowing the Horde back on Dalaran when the demons are at our doorstep is just a weak attempt to make the obligatory faction wars. Especially when you consider that, in WC3, it was her who was willing to put her and the Alliance's differences asides with the Horde to take down the very same threat we are dealing right now. The Burning Legion.
People hate Jaina because Blizzard keeps balancing the scales.

Nazgrim dies. Taylor dies.
Garrosh dies. Varian dies.
People hate Thrall. People hate Jaina.

Characters who mirror one another in some fashion, tend to end up falling into the same fate in the narrative or with the players. No one liked Thrall since Cataclysm. Very few people like Jaina anymore, only the more Anti-Horde players (and you don't have to be Pro-Alliance to be Anti-Horde), and those who hope for a turn around in her characterization.

Its rather depressing to see how so many of the beloved WC3 characters ended up. Cairne and Vol'jin are dead, Sylvanas is the Lich Queen, Thrall and Jaina are largely hated by the players when before they'd been loved, Tyrande has been reduced to housewife/armcandy-for-Malfurion/incompetent-10,000+-year-old-military-commander, Malfurion's just become hated, Illidan is being turned into some super Archangel of the Light, Maeiv went insane for a while and is kind of on the fence, Kael'thas and Vashj are both dead along with everyone from the Scourge campaign save Kel'thuzad...

I mean, if we're honest with ourselves, some of those conclusions were inevitable (Scourge Heroes mostly ending up as raid fodder), but a lot more was just poor storytelling.

If Blizzard wrote a series of books starting from the end of WC3:TFT and taking place in an alternate timeline from WoW, I'd honestly read them and hope for a much better story.
10/22/2016 07:24 AMPosted by Markhoof
For Genn to ignore the king's orders in order to attack and take down the Forsaken in Stormheim makes sense.


Genn should not be taking orders from Anduin in the first place.

It honestly seems like Blizzard is already making Anduin High King of the Alliance without officially calling him that. It was also his approval that was required to get the Demon Hunters into the Alliance.
10/22/2016 11:12 AMPosted by Rendford
10/22/2016 07:24 AMPosted by Markhoof
For Genn to ignore the king's orders in order to attack and take down the Forsaken in Stormheim makes sense.


Genn should not be taking orders from Anduin in the first place.

It honestly seems like Blizzard is already making Anduin High King of the Alliance without officially calling him that. It was also his approval that was required to get the Demon Hunters into the Alliance.


Blizzard needs to stop pushing this High King nonsense with the Alliance. The HORDE are the ones whose races swear fealty to the warchief(and even then people like Sylvanas and Lor'themar go their own way when they have reason to). The Alliance,dating back to Warcraft 2 mind you, is well, an ALLIANCE of nations that come together to face any evil that threatens them. Putting one racial leader at the head of it is silly. Its a coalition of seperate nations, where as horde feels more like a collection of tribes under one Chieftan(again, discounting the Lordearon horde).

Blizzard's goal seems to be to equiv elate the Horde and the Alliance in every way they can, and thats just foolish from a storytelling stand point.
I don't hate her, but she does appear to have gone off the deep end quite a bit. Her hatred for the Horde can only be equaled by her hatred for herself for siding with them for so long. She sacrificed so much of herself in the efforts to prove the Horde wasn't everything her father believed them to be, and the moment that Thrall steps down as Warchief and chooses his successor they prove that's exactly who they are (at least in her perspective).

She sacrificed much of her family for the Horde, then the Horde turned around and took the only family she had left (Theramore) from her. That level of betrayal will not abate easily. I would not be surprised in the slightest if she tried to kill Thrall for his actions in future content. "Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it".
10/22/2016 11:39 AMPosted by Shrædow
Blizzard needs to stop pushing this High King nonsense with the Alliance. The HORDE are the ones whose races swear fealty to the warchief(and even then people like Sylvanas and Lor'themar go their own way when they have reason to). The Alliance,dating back to Warcraft 2 mind you, is well, an ALLIANCE of nations that come together to face any evil that threatens them. Putting one racial leader at the head of it is silly. Its a coalition of seperate nations, where as horde feels more like a collection of tribes under one Chieftan(again, discounting the Lordearon horde).

Blizzard's goal seems to be to equiv elate the Horde and the Alliance in every way they can, and thats just foolish from a storytelling stand point.


I agree, although I wouldn't mind High King so much if Blizzard cared to allow other racial leaders to take up the mantle just to show that the Alliance is more than just humans. It really doesn't hold up to me they believe it's only a title that fits humans, when right now the Horde have the Forsaken leader taking up a tremendously orcish sounding title.

Funny enough, I just found out Anduin's title was changed to High King on his character page. So it's pretty much official now.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/story/character/anduin-wrynn
How am I supposed to like a character that declares my whole faction is filled with vermin and then left yelling "You'll all see!"

I don't know about you, but that was a pretty "moustache twirly" moment for nothing to come of it.
I hate her, and can't wait to slit her throat. Her paranoid, Legion-enabling hatemongering must end. With her intestines spilling out, preferably.
It's annoying how she can't decide what to do without Kalec there to calm her with his threats of leaving her.
She's better than that.

Also this

08/27/2016 10:25 AMPosted by Hallinton
Good god, this thread just won't stay dead.
10/22/2016 06:27 AMPosted by Jchan
I'm not going to deny the Purge nor will I condemn it. Aethas WAS complicit and WAS hoping that it wouldn't be noticed.

Only he wasn't complicit. He found out about the plot after it had already occurred, and was browbeaten into keeping his mouth shut.

You can make the case he aided after the fact by not immediately reporting it in the twelve seconds between discovering the plot and Jaina showing up and killing his men, but he very pointedly wasn't involved in concocting or executing the plot.

10/22/2016 11:47 AMPosted by Gauché
She sacrificed much of her family for the Horde, then the Horde turned around and took the only family she had left (Theramore) from her. That level of betrayal will not abate easily. I would not be surprised in the slightest if she tried to kill Thrall for his actions in future content. "Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it".

Characterizing the destruction of Theramore as a betrayal runs into a few problems, mind you, since Theramore was responsible for the start of hostilities between the Alliance and Horde back in Cataclysm, when Theramore forces (based in an illegally located base) preemptively attacked multiple civilian settlements.

Arguing the statement could be correct from a limited, in-universe perspective makes a bit more sense, since you can argue the trauma of these events has led her to assign blame to help her cope with the loss.

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