Swamp of Sorrows questlines.

Story Forum
The quests involving Stonard for the Alliance side are honestly some of the worst in game because logically they make ZERO sense. No general nowhere would ever leave an enemy encampment standing. You don't have to kill the civilians to get rid of them, ever heard of a prisoner of war?

The main difference here with the stupid Marshtide Post quests is that the fact that this is TOTAL WAR is lost on that Commander. Maybe she didn't get the memo that the Forsaken wrecked Southshore, or that the Orcs are trying to wreck Northwatch and Astraanar.

I don't understand why the Horde can claim both Lordaeron and Kalimdor as sovereign land and then condemn ALL Alliance forces, civilians, whatever as violating that sovereignty and this idiot of a commander can't bring herself to want Stonard gone completely. It doesn't fit and is therefore one of the worst, the worst questlines in Cata.

EDIT:Happy?
Paragraphs are your friend sir :P
Like I said in a previous thread, stooping down to the Horde's level just to spite them does nothing but bring the Alliance down to their level.

If the Alliance genuinely thinks capturing or killing civilian prisoners is a good thing, they can do that. Just don't go preaching to the Horde about it when they do the same.
Like I said in a previous thread, stooping down to the Horde's level just to spite them does nothing but bring the Alliance down to their level.

If the Alliance genuinely thinks capturing or killing civilian prisoners is a good thing, they can do that. Just don't go preaching to the Horde about it when they do the same.


The problem with upholding them is that they're costing us lives. Lots of them. The Horde doesn't think that we deserve to live, so why should we give them the same benefit?

The problem with upholding them is that they're costing us lives. Lots of them. The Horde doesn't think that we deserve to live, so why should we give them the same benefit?


I maintain Joanna's decision hasn't cost any lives, without supplies and without warriors stonard is just a swamp village, heck, if she'd burned it down the survivors might be even more hostile.
I maintain Joanna's decision hasn't cost any lives, without supplies and without warriors stonard is just a swamp village, heck, if she'd burned it down the survivors might be even more hostile.


Southshore was just a fishing village, heck if they'd plagued it the survivors might be even more hostile, oh wait we are Alliance and don't care.
It wasn't a strategically smart decision to leave an Orcish settlement intact in a time of total war. I don't think thats arguable. The point is that it just makes the Alliance look like idiots and pansies who aren't willing to do what is necessary. Even Turalyon and Uther were willing to do what was necessary for the Alliance, it isn't out of the question to ask the same of the obviously more strong-willed Varian Wrynn, come on?
The problem with upholding them is that they're costing us lives. Lots of them. The Horde doesn't think that we deserve to live, so why should we give them the same benefit?


Because thats what the 'morally superior' faction is supposed to do. They take the high road even though sometimes they slip off and get their faces smashed abit. If you want to get down and dirty then go play Horde. But dont argue that in order to start getting wins we need to start bastardizing the Alliance, thank you very much.
Because thats what the 'morally superior' faction is supposed to do. They take the high road even though sometimes they slip off and get their faces smashed abit. If you want to get down and dirty then go play Horde. But dont argue that in order to start getting wins we need to start bastardizing the Alliance, thank you very much.


In Swamp of Sorrows we weren't the 'morally superior' faction, we were the stupid faction who doesn't understand how to play war. Like I said, if Turalyon and Uther could bring themselves to do it, we should be able to do it too.
The problem with upholding them is that they're costing us lives. Lots of them. The Horde doesn't think that we deserve to live, so why should we give them the same benefit?


Because thats what the 'morally superior' faction is supposed to do. They take the high road even though sometimes they slip off and get their faces smashed abit. If you want to get down and dirty then go play Horde. But dont argue that in order to start getting wins we need to start bastardizing the Alliance, thank you very much.


Pretty much. I'm not saying the Alliance shouldn't react, or just bend over and take it from the Horde. Just that when you're delivering your justice, you need to be more merciful than the Horde if you want to maintain your moral highground.

In Swamp of Sorrows we weren't the 'morally superior' faction, we were the stupid faction who doesn't understand how to play war. Like I said, if Turalyon and Uther could bring themselves to do it, we should be able to do it too.


See, the problem with that logic is that the Alliance gets up the Horde for 'killing Alliance civilians.'

Is 'eye for an eye' really a good justification to do the same back? If anything that just causes more violence to the point where it will spiral out of control.

In Swamp of Sorrows we weren't the 'morally superior' faction, we were the stupid faction who doesn't understand how to play war. Like I said, if Turalyon and Uther could bring themselves to do it, we should be able to do it too.


Bring themselves to do what? Fight to defend their homes and families? Yes. Fight to wipe out every last Orc because the race 'needed to be destroyed?' If thats the line of thought that your following then you have no understanding of these characters. They were Paladins, they fought for honor and protection, never for bloodlust or vengence. And certainly never for outright genocide.

In Swamp of Sorrows we weren't the 'morally superior' faction, we were the stupid faction who doesn't understand how to play war. Like I said, if Turalyon and Uther could bring themselves to do it, we should be able to do it too.


Bring themselves to do what? Fight to defend their homes and families? Yes. Fight to wipe out every last Orc because the race 'needed to be destroyed?' If thats the line of thought that your following then you have no understanding of these characters. They were Paladins, they fought for honor and protection, never for bloodlust or vengence. And certainly never for outright genocide.


I think that what it comes down to with something like this is that the Alliance commanders, for the most part, were mostly raised on the belief that the orcs were not people, and thus resorting to their tactics (complete rout, no survivors) would make them beasts and savages. Heck, I'd go so far as to say that a lot of these commanders/generals were children when Stormwind itself was initially sacked; to not sink down to the levels of the Horde even after all they've done does more than show compassion and mercy, it could bolster their own faith in themselves.

"We were in a situation that would allow us to utterly obliterate these beasts... and we did not. They have no supplies, their warriors are depleted, and now they have a grim scenario to face. We have forced them to either retreat or kill themselves on our swords in a desperate attack, which is far more than they would ever have given us. Today, we can stand up and say, with all the conviction in the world, that we are better than them."

Does it suck if you're Alliance and want to see the orcs driven before you, smear their blood on your face, and slaughter them as they flee? Yeah, probably.

That's why you're not the one giving the orders.
You guys aren't understand what I am advocating here. You go into Stonard, kill all of the military forces, walk the 'civilian' orcs out and then burn the town to the ground. Take the civilians and put them in prisoner of war camps. They don't belong in the sovereign land of the Kingdom of Stormwind. That is Turalyon's logic in the novel Tides of Darkness if you have ever read it. You want the glory days of the Alliance as we knew them in Warcraft II, welcome home.
They really should have just put a FP somewhere else (maybe a Horde guerrilla encampment) because that's really the only reason Stonard is still standing.

From a logitstical, strategic, tactical, and just plain common sense standpoint there is no good reason Stonard should have survived the Alliance offensive.

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