Proving grounds.

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You pretty much have to be an expert with your class to get gold. And not only be an expert at your class, you have to have the right gear, the right reforges, the right gems, use the right abilities at the right, etc. And there is still the element of RNG to deal with. Requiring gold for LFR is just ludicrous because it's about the same difficulty as challenge modes or heroic raids.


No, you don't.

I got gold without reforging or gemming just to do it.

You have to be competent and try multiple times, and adjust some talents at most.

It requires some thought, but it's not EXTREME.

I'm not a heroic raider, and I did it in like 8 tries.
I hope proving grounds ends up being successful (in blizzards eyes) and expanded upon to be used while leveling.

New tools of teaching you how to play in game are great, and proving grounds fills that niche more than a guide could for (I'd guess) a large amount of players.
09/27/2013 06:29 AMPosted by Médic
You pretty much have to be an expert with your class to get gold. And not only be an expert at your class, you have to have the right gear, the right reforges, the right gems, use the right abilities at the right, etc. And there is still the element of RNG to deal with. Requiring gold for LFR is just ludicrous because it's about the same difficulty as challenge modes or heroic raids.


No, you don't.

I get gold without reforging or gemming just to do it.

You have to be competent and try multiple and adjust some talents at most.

It requires some thought, but it's not EXTREME.

I'm not a heroic raider, and I did it in like 8 tries.


Just to expand, getting gold in proving grounds is NOT like healing a gold challenge modes.

Challenge modes are much harder and have far spikier damage. (From experiencing the CMs with groups that are learning the dungeon)

Gold proving grounds took me a few tries because I had to learn to swap to healing wave and not oom myself, but not because the overall damage was too much to heal. Just had to not over-react
Stop trying to block access to content! Even when people aren't good!

Yes Proving ground works fine to learn your role. But I don't think obtaining Silver will automatically make everyone to care about an encounter.

LFR's worst enemy is not the casual players themselves, it's the fact that it has been designed with the wrong approach. I sure hope they revisit how they approach boss encounters next expansion in LFR.

Some people enjoy doing LFR, even when they aren't topping meters, the solution is to promote learning. Not force it.
If it's account bound. Maybe, if it's character bond no. I don't have many alts but the ones I do I would not want to do PG just to get into LFR on them, I'd probably play them even less than I do now.

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I honestly feel like if they are that bad at the game, they shouldn't be in LFR bringing down a group of 24 other players. No offense to them, but honestly, this whole thing with LFR with 5-10 players carrying the rest of the group needs to stop. No one is ever going to learn simple mechanics about the game unless they are forced to, and these 5 hour+ LFRs with max stacks of Determination are just going to continue on.

Pizzacat please. It's not that people are too bad to do LFR correctly (ok well some of them are), it's mostly a lack of effort. They don't bother to learn how to do fights until it is beaten into their skulls from doing it in LFR every week. If they put in this PG change only thing that would happen (besides them starting a !@#$storm over it) would be they'd get their stupidly easy silver rank and go on with their afking, no start knowing LFR ways. Then again, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe people just are that bad, I can't tell anymore.
09/27/2013 06:30 AMPosted by Stockings


I agree with that but I also think it is an unrealistic expectation because it is a group of strangers that are completely uncommitted to each other, plenty of the slackers in LFR are more than capable of performing their role yet choose not to simply because it is LFR. Having them prove their worth will not change their attitude.


I don't agree with this. Unless people legitimately like spending 5 hours wiping and not getting anything done, I don't usually see people purposefully not performing their role if they can.


People should add some "noob" players and play with them. I have some friends that can't do the rotation and play attention to the mechanics at the same time. It's really hard for them.

The can do the mechanics, and do really bad dps, or do medium dps and stand on fire/don't kll the right add (because they are focused on the rotation).

Most people are trying.
09/27/2013 06:30 AMPosted by Stockings
I don't agree with this. Unless people legitimately like spending 5 hours wiping and not getting anything done, I don't usually see people purposefully not performing their role if they can.


Regulars on these forums have bragged about going afk while in LFR, it is unfortunate but it happens.
Stop trying to block access to content! Even when people aren't good!


Don't worry, this is a truly hypothetical discussion, most people realize that it will never be implemented.
09/27/2013 06:36 AMPosted by Judgernaught
I don't agree with this. Unless people legitimately like spending 5 hours wiping and not getting anything done, I don't usually see people purposefully not performing their role if they can.


Regulars on these forums have bragged about going afk while in LFR, it is unfortunate but it happens.


Unfortunately it is entirely possible. The only good news is because these LFR wings are so fresh, groups are far less tolerant of afkers, and better a policing their groups.

Once gear and knowledge come though, it will be like old tier LFRs and the afk'ing will rise again.
09/27/2013 06:36 AMPosted by Judgernaught
I don't agree with this. Unless people legitimately like spending 5 hours wiping and not getting anything done, I don't usually see people purposefully not performing their role if they can.


Regulars on these forums have bragged about going afk while in LFR, it is unfortunate but it happens.


Yes, but those are the regulars no one likes.
09/27/2013 06:38 AMPosted by Médic
Stop trying to block access to content! Even when people aren't good!


Don't worry, this is a truly hypothetical discussion, most people realize that it will never be implemented.


Just the fact there are people discussing this idea and in favor of it though is a issue.

Just the fact there are people discussing this idea and in favor of it though is a issue.

Just out of curiosity, what do you have against it? You have said nothing but "no." What exactly is the problem with it?
Not saying that I support it or oppose it, I don't really care either way. Just for someone to seem so adamantly opposed it, I'm curious as to why.
09/27/2013 06:38 AMPosted by Médic
Don't worry, this is a truly hypothetical discussion, most people realize that it will never be implemented


I think I read a tweet from GC saying proving grounds might eventually replace item level as the barrier to entry for LFR, I can't seem to find it however so there is a good chance I am mistaken.
09/27/2013 06:44 AMPosted by Fairadey


Don't worry, this is a truly hypothetical discussion, most people realize that it will never be implemented.


Just the fact there are people discussing this idea and in favor of it though is a issue.


No. It's not. Any discussion to improve the quality of LFR (less under performers, less people afk), are valid. Even that's not the right way to do it, the discussion about it is positive.

Perhaps you should talk why it's a bad and how to improve it in a better way. I'm all ears to opposite ideas.
I think I read a tweet from GC saying proving grounds might eventually replace item level as the barrier to entry for LFR, I can't seem to find it however so there is a good chance I am mistaken.


This doesn't make sense.

They would allow a player with 470 gear enter SoO LFR? A bad player on that gear would do 25k dps. An average one would do like 50k.

Even a bronze or silver player would not meet the gear requirement to do the raid.

Just the fact there are people discussing this idea and in favor of it though is a issue.

Just out of curiosity, what do you have against it? You have said nothing but "no." What exactly is the problem with it?
Not saying that I support it or oppose it, I don't really care either way. Just for someone to seem so adamantly opposed it, I'm curious as to why.


LFR was meant to open up content to anyone and everyone who couldn't or wouldn't participate in structured raiding and had a earned a high enough ilevel to be mathematically viable in the raid.

You don't like others are not trying? You can do one of a few things instead of saying "gate this content to my satisfaction!" Try harder so as to help the run go smoother. AFK like others. Don't run it. Show leadership and help the run go smoother.

You pretty much have to be an expert with your class to get gold. And not only be an expert at your class, you have to have the right gear, the right reforges, the right gems, use the right abilities at the right, etc. And there is still the element of RNG to deal with. Requiring gold for LFR is just ludicrous because it's about the same difficulty as challenge modes or heroic raids.


It depends on the class. The healing gold is easy breezy regardless (as long as you understand how to efficiently heal. I managed it on a monk I rarely play with low socket count before they fixed the AI, for example, and didn't feel especially stressed out), but the tank and damage ones are more tricky.

For example, a hunter will have a much easier time golding the DPS challenge than a feral will. And a brewmaster will have a much easier time on the tanking gold than a warrior.

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