Well Deserved Deserter Debuff

Battlegrounds
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So I'm in a BG/Arathi Basin and my server goes down and takes me 5 minutes to finally log back on. When I log on, I am kicked from the BG with a Deserter Debuff. Thanks Blizz.
You deserved it.
You deserved it.


Well, that's a little harsh...

Luckily, it's only 15 minutes for cases like this. Sucks when it happens, but it's pretty rare, and the deserter debuff does more good than bad.
10/08/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Jugaa
You deserved it.


Well, that's a little harsh...

Luckily, it's only 15 minutes for cases like this. Sucks when it happens, but it's pretty rare, and the deserter debuff does more good than bad.

Hey! Your character looks different. I approve!
I agree with the OP. The Deserter Debuff should be re-... uhhh... designed so it only affects people who are forceably and legitimately removed from the BG.
Hey! Your character looks different. I approve!


Hehe, hid my helm :)
Geezes 5 mins? I've lost connection, shut the client down 2 seconds later, logged back in, in under 60 seconds and been kicked afk. O.o And once was during a Twin Peaks after I JUST capped a flag, oh I was so mad XD
designed so it only affects people who are forceably and legitimately removed from the BG.


Well, he likely was legitimately removed from the BG. Being DC'd for 5 minutes, either the team voted him AFK or he got flagged as inactive and booted for being AFK.

It would be hard to implement though. If it excluded the deserter from people who DC'd/went offline then how do you stop people exploiting it by logging off and back in when their team is losing instead of /afking out to avoid the debuff.
So the entire server crashed, like bleeding hollow for me earlier.. and a 15min deserter buff warrants an angry forum post?

"designed so it only affects people who are forceably and legitimately removed from the BG. "
So how would you decide that hmm?

Disconnections? Hey I just pulled the network cable from my desktop, I don't deserve deserter all of the sudden. Huge waste of time for something that would become exploited, I personally would do it to save 15mins if the alliance were particularly awful one bg.
Jugaa's funny.
Transmogged the helm, and then turned off its display :O
The Deserter Debuff should be re-... uhhh... designed so it only affects people who are forceably and legitimately removed from the BG.
Sounds good in principle but probably impossible to implement. What would be a forceable removal? Removing AFKers & botters perhaps? Guess what... a player that's playing objectives & is in combat can be removed the same way. What's a legitimate removal? Maybe being DC'ed? Guess what I could just shut off my computer if my team is terrible & reboot it... and queue up with no debuff.

My point is what sounds good is often open to exploitation & abuse. The current system, although not perfect, is probably a better alternative.
10/08/2013 08:57 PMPosted by Devidicus
designed so it only affects people who are forceably and legitimately removed from the BG.


Well, he likely was legitimately removed from the BG. Being DC'd for 5 minutes, either the team voted him AFK or he got flagged as inactive and booted for being AFK.

It would be hard to implement though. If it excluded the deserter from people who DC'd/went offline then how do you stop people exploiting it by logging off and back in when their team is losing instead of /afking out to avoid the debuff.


^This. You used to be able to alt F4 out of a game. Wait 5 minutes, log back on and no debuff.

It sucks to get when you're legitimately disconnected, but it's a necessary evil.
Jugaa's funny.
Transmogged the helm, and then turned off its display :O


Silly Jugaa.

I agree with Infesty, if they made it so only people that either left or were booted got the debuff, but not those that d/c'd, I could simply log out in the bg, wait a few minutes and log back in with no penalty. If they implemented something to make it so they can tell when I log out to give me the debuff, I would just unplug my router for a minute, watch myself get d/c'd, then log back in scott-free.

Edit: or altF4. I don't know how to computer when it's early.

It's not a bad idea, but it's no better than the current system.
Well, he likely was legitimately removed from the BG. Being DC'd for 5 minutes, either the team voted him AFK or he got flagged as inactive and booted for being AFK.

I doubt we both have an understanding of the term "legitimate". If he DCed inadvertently, I hardly believe he deserted his team. If you do believe so, you're either unreasonably harsh or just unreasonable.

It would be hard to implement though. If it excluded the deserter from people who DC'd/went offline then how do you stop people exploiting it by logging off and back in when their team is losing instead of /afking out to avoid the debuff.

Because disconnections are detectable, no? If not, why whenever a disconnect happens, it returns you to the main menu and says "Disconnected from server"?

Hey I just pulled the network cable from my desktop, I don't deserve deserter all of the sudden. Huge waste of time for something that would become exploited, I personally would do it to save 15mins if the alliance were particularly awful one bg.

I highly doubt more people would use your method to exploit this system than people who D/C arbitrarily and unintentionally. With that respect, this system would benefit the majority.

Sounds good in principle but probably impossible to implement. What would be a forceable removal? Removing AFKers & botters perhaps? Guess what... a player that's playing objectives & is in combat can be removed the same way.

Happens to me -all- the time. Which is why I suggest a new system to vote to kick players. It should be really easy to detect if a player is a bot or not playing, so implementing it shouldn't be too difficult.

The current system, although not perfect, is probably a better alternative.

If you think being able to be removed while perfectly active in the BG is considered a better alternative, you should work for Blizzard.

Guess what I could just shut off my computer if my team is terrible & reboot it... and queue up with no debuff.

Already responded to this.

10/09/2013 10:15 AMPosted by Socìopath
I could simply log out in the bg, wait a few minutes and log back in with no penalty.

Already responded.

If they implemented something to make it so they can tell when I log out to give me the debuff, I would just unplug my router for a minute, watch myself get d/c'd, then log back in scott-free.

Already responded.
Miro you didn't really address anything that we said. Your suggestion would be wide open to abuse & exploitation & trust me it would be abused & exploited regularly.

I doubt we both have an understanding of the term "legitimate". If he DCed inadvertently, I hardly believe he deserted his team. If you do believe so, you're either unreasonably harsh or just unreasonable.
That nothing to do with it... like several of us said DCing can be emulated by merely pulling out the LAN cable or shutting off the modem.

Because disconnections are detectable, no? If not, why whenever a disconnect happens, it returns you to the main menu and says "Disconnected from server"?
Again this is wide open to abuse, as described above.

10/09/2013 12:34 PMPosted by Miro
I highly doubt more people would use your method to exploit this system than people who D/C arbitrarily and unintentionally. With that respect, this system would benefit the majority.
You are terribly naive if you think that. This would make the situation exponentially worse, not better. As soon as a team starts losing guess what... unplug the LAN cable, wait a minute (so some poor bastard takes your spot) & then queue up again.

10/09/2013 12:34 PMPosted by Miro
Happens to me -all- the time. Which is why I suggest a new system to vote to kick players. It should be really easy to detect if a player is a bot or not playing, so implementing it shouldn't be too difficult.
If you are being removed from combat "all the time" you are doing something you shouldn't be (like nerd raging). It happened to me once & I was cursing out a terribad 5 man from Blades Edge (I'm sure they kicked me). I lol'ed because they did me a favor.

If you think being able to be removed while perfectly active in the BG is considered a better alternative, you should work for Blizzard.
Again you must be doing something to deserve this... judging by your smug attitude in the forums I imagine you rub your teammates the wrong way. I have been known to nerd rage but I write checks that my butt can cash, meaning I pull my own weight. A little self analysis might reveal the reason in your case.

Already responded.
No you brushed it off... you didn't really respond.

Already responded.
See above.
Miro you didn't really address anything that we said. Your suggestion would be wide open to abuse & exploitation & trust me it would be abused & exploited regularly.

Well:

I highly doubt more people would use your method to exploit this system than people who D/C arbitrarily and unintentionally. With that respect, this system would benefit the majority


You are terribly naive if you think that. This would make the situation exponentially worse, not better. As soon as a team starts losing guess what... unplug the LAN cable, wait a minute (so some poor bastard takes your spot) & then queue up again.


I highly doubt more people would use your method to exploit this system than people who D/C arbitrarily and unintentionally. With that respect, this system would benefit the majority.

If you really think more people would go out of their way and disconnect LAN cable than people who disconnect legitimately, I'm going to need a better explanation than just saying I'm naive for thinking the opposite.

10/09/2013 12:59 PMPosted by Infestyx
That nothing to do with it... like several of us said DCing can be emulated by merely pulling out the LAN cable or shutting off the modem.


10/09/2013 12:59 PMPosted by Infestyx
Again this is wide open to abuse, as described above.


I highly doubt more people would use your method to exploit this system than people who D/C arbitrarily and unintentionally. With that respect, this system would benefit the majority.
If you are being removed from combat "all the time" you are doing something you shouldn't be (like nerd raging). It happened to me once & I was cursing out a terribad 5 man from Blades Edge (I'm sure they kicked me). I lol'ed because they did me a favor.

I am removed from the BG because I rag the flag around, and purposely prevent experience-gain for my team. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the method of kicking me is completely unrelated to the reason for doing so. I am clearly not away, so why am I removed because of being reported away? I suggest a couple more kick options so that this can be specified.
Jugaa's funny.
Transmogged the helm, and then turned off its display :O


Trust me, I didn't do it for the looks. Only the wings, and that doesn't happen unless I'm online and playing ;)
10/09/2013 01:20 PMPosted by Miro
purposely prevent experience-gain for my team.


10/09/2013 01:20 PMPosted by Miro
but the method of kicking me is completely unrelated to the reason for doing so. I am clearly not away, so why am I removed because of being reported away?


No, you're not away, but you just gave everyone the reason why you are kicked... bots aren't "away," but they are a nuisance to the team.. same with you if you:

10/09/2013 01:20 PMPosted by Miro
purposely prevent experience-gain for my team.
If you are being removed from combat "all the time" you are doing something you shouldn't be (like nerd raging). It happened to me once & I was cursing out a terribad 5 man from Blades Edge (I'm sure they kicked me). I lol'ed because they did me a favor.

I am removed from the BG because I rag the flag around, and purposely prevent experience-gain for my team. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the method of kicking me is completely unrelated to the reason for doing so. I am clearly not away, so why am I removed because of being reported away? I suggest a couple more kick options so that this can be specified.


Because you're basically grieving your own group. If you don't want xp, don't go into a battleground that gives it and if you get kicked (more options won't matter, you know why you were kicked) or choose to afk, you deserve the 15 minute timeout. I think it's clear why you want the deserter debuff removed/revamped and no matter how it's explained why it would cause negative consequences, you're not going to accept the reasons.

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