Blues... Change WG back to how it was

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brb 100 horde vs 10 alliance

and to the tard who said "alliance doesn't show up"

wait for it

wait for it

wait for it

that because every 12 year old and their grandma rolled horde
Once upon a time on Crushridge...

It was simple, really, would Queue up for Wintergrasp. If Horde was defending, Alliance would have siege engines within about 20 to 30 seconds. We'd have about 10 seige engines hit the southeast corner at once and plow through before the first minute of the battle was done and Wintergrasp over in about 4 minutes, tops. Even with people on Defense in the Keep trying to keep the siege engines down. We could win the assault about 10 to 15 minutes in (never got instant siege), but we could not manage defense unless it was during the late /late/ night or early morning hours on the server. There was much complaining and ranting and raving over the seeming exploit.

3 or 4 weeks ago, whatever, there was a patch, somewhere in the patch, that exploit was fixed. Suddenly, we could defend successfully, consistantly, and with that news, Horde side rejoiced that it wasn't an automatic steamroll on defense and more started coming in. We'd rant about alliance getting 15 stacks of tenacity when they stopped coming in for an easy win, then we'd push them to their graveyard and hold them. Then we'd hold them there after the battle for a good 15 to 20 minutes more. More than fair punishment. You can laugh about your 40k oneshot flameshock, but Heaven forbid the other side retaliate for it. Even moreso when we retaliate harder because you get to spend time standing there with the immunity buff and attack with impunity.

And so the whining voices went up again, only a few short weeks later, and even though Alliance outnumber Horde on Crushridge, and have the higher ranked guilds and PvP'ers, we're back to easy losses, or better, sitting in queue wondering why there's a 5v5 arena battle going on to determine if we can do VoA10/25, or if we're even going to get a chance at the Wintergrasp weekly quests for honor points, or if we'll get those Wintergrasp achievements before Cata goes live in 2 weeks.

I do, however, remember a time of balance, almost, it was back when you could only have horde /or/ alliance characters on a PvP realm. Not both. If balance is such a major issue, LOCK character creation on imbalanced realms for the overpopulated faction so that people /have/ to start making on the underpopulated one until the balance, at least numbers wise, is back in place. Or give an incentive for people to move their characters from the higher faction to the lower one ON THOSE REALMS. A limit on how many people can move to make the balance, and a limited time, then tag it into the launcher so that people know that its real and can make those changes.

In the mean time, I'm going to lay back and watch a Nicholas Cage, DeNiro, Jack Nicholson, or Mel Gibson movie while waiting on this queue to pop and let me into Wintergrasp so I can kill 3 more mounted Alliance players from a tower cannon.
It is curious how people are focusing on the 1:1 raid aspect of this and are ignoring the fact that people can manually go to the zone. Before the change, we would often see 5-10 Ten because of sheer numbers of Hordies. Did the 1:1 fix anything?

No, we are still massively outnumbered...only without the somewhat useless Tenacity - because the Horde are manually flying into the zone.

If they want it to be 1:1, they need to kick anybody that is not part of that 1:1 raid out of the zone.

Flew into WG during the battle three days ago, managed to pull a Titanium node before being shunted off to my Hearth of Undercity. If you are outnumbered either the restriction isn't working on your server or your buddies in the Alliance are queueing in to raise the total, then jumping out right at the start. Not because of Horde flying in.
Even match and we won. It was awesome. Guess what happened next battle? 2 times as many people showed. There was a QUEUE for alliance to get in.

Give it time. People are realizing they now actually stand a bloody chance and are going.

More of both sides will be able to get in soon. So get over not having your roflstomp session every 2 hrs 30 minutes (5:1 10:1, etc, yea, you're so cool). Learn to play without overwhelming odds.
I believe I read somewhere that (for Tol Barad and retroactively for WG) the balance was going to have a minimum floor for each side so that it would never shrink to single digits in each raid. I.e. even if only 5 horde queue, the alliance team would still have 20 slots available. Once both sides had more than the minimum queuing, then both team sizes would rise together equally, if 30 horde queue then 30 alliance get in.

Can anyone confirm or deny that this intended action occurs? Blizz specifically stated they didn't want 5v5 WG or TB yet testimony in this thread runs contradictory to Blizz' goal.

That was the previous incarnation of the balancing system. They were actually going to allow up to 5 players in when another queue'd past the minimum number, then stop queue's until the higher pop was reached by the lower population. However, folks on the higher population side quickly figured out they could bypass the restriction queue by just constantly requeue if the queue gave them a message that WG was full. Blizzard decided to fix the problem by just making it 1:1 (should have been that way to begin with, after a minimum number of say 10 players).

I expect to be able to get into wintergrasp. I'm sorry that your faction is the minority, really I am, and I hope blizzard can find some way to fix the imbalance. The problem is, this change makes it so 95% of my faction can't even enter the zone. That's really not acceptable, it's simply not a good change. At least the minority factions were still able to do wg, even if it resulted in a loss. Oh and my frustration won't soon be gone... the same system is being implemented for tol barad in cataclysm (the cata version of wg)

Tol Barad is going to be brand new, and have Dailies in it to boot. Wintergrasp participation didn't start to wane until Blizzard made what WERE daily quests into weekly quests. Most folks would go to get their weekly quests done and wouldn't go back to WG for the entire week. Don't knock it until you try it.
This change is probably for the best given how absurd the faction balance on a vast majority of servers is however there needs to be a floor (10-20 people or so) before 1:1 balancing kicks in.

With no floor the problem is this, there is an active disincentive for the controlling side to queue. Since defense tends to have an advantage in ultra low pop games (obviously true for WG, not sure about TB but I suspect it true there as well) in terms of long term control of the zone and raid. Putting a floor on the number of players in the zone would remedy this by discouraging trying to keep the sides low. Instead it would encourage full participation from the under populated faction to make sure they were above the floor to trigger 1:1 which should result in reasonably populated WGs at most hours (the 3AM and the 6AM less so but those even on pretty even pop servers have always been a bit ridiculous and probably shouldn't be balanced around).
Another oddity, we used to announce it in Trade, "Hey, guys, Wintergrasp in 15, queue up!" I know its selfish, but we don't anymore. Maybe such simple things would help, a global, "Wintergrasp in 15" so people don't have to check, or Tol Barad since that will be the new one. Also, unable to queue for Wintergrasp if already queued for a random BG, oddly, I'd like to see that tweak made, and be able to queue for BG/Dungeon at the same time, whichever pops first to break the boredom.
I just hope the alliance on my server learn fast how to actually win WG now that they have real resistance. They thought they owned WG; they know differently now. I fear they have gone so long without real pvp in wg that they have forgotten how to win it.
That is your server, Byz. Mine is having fun in WG again for the first time in.... Well since faction change made it so unbalanced. Now we win WG again, and more and more alli are showing up, so more horde can get in. And we are still winning!

So, it may not be helping YOU, but there are just as many servers out there that it is helping NOW. Maybe it will just take longer on yours.
I dunno who thought it'd be a good idea to have a 1:1 ratio in WG, but it's supposed to be the biggest battleground zone in the game. It's huge and this morning Horde/Malfurion won a 2v2 WG. TWO PEOPLE? Are you serious? If one side doesn't have a lot of people to fight, that's their problem. Don't punish the other side because they actually show up.

WG is now 10v10, with 40 of one side sitting in Queue in Dal.

Sounds like a great time for the $15 I give you to play the game. I hope the new BG in Cata doesn't suck a fat one like this.

Aw poor little baby is used to winning WG all the time due to a 120 v 30 matchup every time.

Realms with highly unbalanced populations have had a serious Wintergrasp problem since day 1. Let's say 10% of all characters logged on for both sides decided to do WG. If Alliance has 200 logged on, then 20 are in WG. If Horde have 1000 logged on, then 100 join WG. 100 v 20 will always be a Horde win.

Tenacity is a half-arsed fix that didn't work. Having 100k HP and being able to 1 shot anyone only works when you aren't being stunned/feared/silenced/disarmed the entire time. Also, tenacity doesn't increase seige damage. Since seiges can't be healed, even their increased health can't win through the utter slaughter they take. It will be lucky to be withing firing range of the outer wall at all, let alone bring down the inner gate.

Also, tenacity doesn't affect how quickly you can capture something. I've had times when 4-5 of us were defending a base in WG. The Horde fell at our feet, and we never came close to dying. Thing is, they still capped it, because 15 Horde cap faster than 5 Alliance.

These factors mean that a group with several stacks of Tenacity won't win unless the other team is utterly incompetent, or AFK. Therefore, people either give up on it, or faction change. Both of which make it even worse, thus amplifying the effect.
WG is dead on imbalanced servers ... just you wait and see.
Myself and about 15 or so friends are going to roll horde alts so we can sit them in wg and /dance and have active alliance players outnumber them. Hopefully horde don't get the same idea because we could keep them from rarely ever winning wg again with this exploit!!!
wintergrasp really sucks now. On my server, There's about 20+ horde that queues and maybe 4 alliance, so we end up doing something stupid like 5 vs 5. This new system just doesn't work. I've been in WG for 2 hours after one was done and didn't get in.

Either fix your queueing system so it's first come first server or bring back the good old days....
the all or nothing days...

I love the person that said the benefits have been pushed aside in favor of QQ. Benefits to who though? So now the horde wins more often. I could actually care less if that happens, so I guess in terms of balance so be it. But I can never ever get in anymore. It's a joke. It was a fun place to play against fellow Cenarius members and now I can no longer do this. A pretty major aspect of the game for me (not so much on this toon yet, but several others) has been forcibly removed. I have queued early on before a battle never to get to play.

It's just stupid. Your solution just caused more problems. Thanks for diminishing the game and punishing us for something you put in place. You gave us the tools to have world PvP and faction transfer. Then you kill a cooler part of the game for many of us on the side of imbalance. Great job.
Wintergrasp is fine now that it's an even fight.

Dunemaul had the same issue as Crushridge. Now, Alliance hold Wintergrasp alot more now.

It's funny reading Trade Chat after those games.
i dont like how small the groups are now with how big the zone is. it should be at least a 40v40 like AV. There is a number of people you have to reach to even be able to break down the walls. What blizz should have done was make tenacity stronger, and/or give extra bonuses to the smaller team even if they lose.

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