Rated Battlegrounds Revamp

As a pvper in the community (specifically BGs) I can't help, but voice my opinion on the direction rated BGs are taking. In essence I don't believe it's the right direction to go with things and many players now can see this. Rated BGs in Cata are going to be more of 'glorified arena' then BGs and I can see a lot of nerfs and rebalances following in order to make them 'viable'. Earlier tonight someone attempted to convince me of how 'little' strategy there is in AV and how much more there is in WSG (which is a joke)

Limiting the max sizes of both AV and Isle of Conquest to 25 players and then just completely removing them from the rated BGs all together should say enough about the way things are being looked at. I'm going to take a lot of flack for this, but I propose a completely new form of rated BGs designed solely around how people play them right now.

Currently you almost never see premades, let alone more then 3-4 people from a guild queuing for the same BG. One of the highlights of BGs is the ability to queue for them without any regard for time or other people online. You can do them whenever you want to and there are always people to play with. They're relatively balanced through numbers unless you encounter a complete premade. Of course there are sometimes complete rolls, but they don't happen all the time.

Here is what I propose:

-Allow free queues once again and make it a ladder based on personal rating, no teams.

-Limit 'premade' queues to a max of five people for every BG except for WSG. WSG shouldn't allow premades or alternatively just allow two player groups due to the size.

-BGs should be kept the same in terms of how and when people can queue for BGs. They shouldn't be forced to play a BG if they don't want to. Random BGs should be a option for rated BGs just the same as they are now and award more points and ratings. Players who do randoms should also be subjected to less of a penalty for losing.

-Matchmaking should take place in terms of a pool of people. Depending on how many people are queuing at the same time, players should be placed with people of equal rating, similar to how matchmaking is done for arena. Approximate ranges can be determined on the fly based on who is queuing when. Premade queues should also be taken into account and the opposite team should be given a score modifier so they're pitted against slightly more advanced players so they can compensate for the fact that it is a premade.

-Premades should award less points then free queues and when pitted against a complete pug the opposite side should be awarded more if they win or lose less when they lose. Especially in lower player count BGs such as Eye, AB, and Strand.

Yes, some people might get cornholed by the noobs, but they will naturally sit at the bottom of the ladder. If players are bad, their team will lose and it will count as a lose against them. They will naturally gravitate down the ladder and good players who make a difference will eventually rise up. Of course extremely lucky noobs may get a good rating, but there is luck involved with everything, even the RNG.

The way rated BGs are now, I can see very few people actually taking advantage of them. Servers, such as mine, which don't have a strong PVP presence will always give free points to servers with good players on them and overall will suffer. This will be especially true when teams are made to just give out freepoints or are remade to %### the bottom players. This will lead players to just not care and not play them.

I also believe pitting premades against each other is not what BGs are all about. BGs have always have had a bit of chaos and unknown to them. There can be oh %#@# moments and meeting people who know how to really click and make things work. People who can adapt and change based on circumstances and not based on a strategy that has been proven to work or team compositions that were decided well in advance of the game.

Of course what I'm suggesting here can be changed quite a bit (such as taking into account healers, which do matter a lot), but you guys should get the general idea. Rated BGs right now are not BGs at all, it's just glorified arena and I was happy to hear about Blizzard re-instituting rated BGs till I heard about how they were being done.

I would've posted this in the Cata battleground forums where blues read, but unfortunately I wasn't invited to the beta so I have no say on the next expansion pack. :(
More reasoning then 'no' is appreciative for any comment.

Go play arena.
I think the only BG that's going to be like arena will be WSG.

If team A can just kill Team B, then team A will win.

There's no real Macro management required if that's the situation.

It's going to be all about cooldown and micromanagement to get enough of an edge to get a flag carrier across the field safely.

I think when it gets to 15 on 15 things will get more interesting and won't be anything like arena. 5 different objectives will require a significant amount of macro management and strategy...a lot of strategy on the fly.

Micro management will become more difficult because the situation shifts will be constant.

But we will see.

One thing I'm pretty sure of, is top rated arena players will require some adjustment to the 15 on 15, but eventually the same skill and dedication that they used to master arenas will carry over into BGs. They will wind up as top BG players as well, as long as they participate and have a team that mostly operates on the same level.
That's the whole part I don't like. Why should you be assured of victory just because it's always happened that way?

The way BGs happen now, it's always luck of the draw. Putting aside players that shouldn't be in BGs to begin with (AFKers/Boters) you are given a assortment bag of players. Each player has different gear, classes, loadouts, and ability to play their character. Each player can be from the same realm or completely different ones.

Arena as it stands now is almost too 'sterile' for lack of a better word. It lacks pezaz and it's all about whoring it up in as small a way as possible. When it comes to BG premades I'm sure you'll see five man cells running around, equally distributed with a healer, a CCer, and three DPSers. Coincidentally, it's the same number of objectives you need to control in each of the 15 man BGs. Whoop de doo.

There is no spice to it or any element of randomness to that besides the RNG, which arena players %%*!# about enough.

This is putting aside being limited by the pool of players on your realm, pvpers generally not making large guilds (for instance my realm hasn't had A PVP guild since halfway through BC), and everyone wanting to play at different times. A lot of people play BGs because they enjoy the freedom of just being able to queue up whenever and do what they want (AFK, bot, run around screaming...). Of course they would also get ratings according to their actions if it was all based on personal ratings.

Blah blah I want the best rewards in the game for no effort blah blah

So how would you get good ratings if you don't put in any effort? That would be one less player helping your team and that will cause you to lose more games then win and your ratings will reflect it.
Organizing chaos is a little bit harder then making premades, isn't it?
And you're saying it wont be harder and put more strain on each participant if in each one of those scenarios they're grouped with different people?

The people that rise to the top of that will be nothing to be looked down upon. Not just in their ability to play their character, but also coordinate and interact with others, as well as in their ability to place themselves when and where they're needed on the battlefield.

I don't think you understand why BGs are so different from arena besides scale.
I wouldn't mind if they implemented an option for Rated BGs for solo queuers, and kept that PuG rating separate. That way, the good solo queuers will eventually be playing with/against others of similar skill, and AFK bots would likely sit around the 1000 rating.

I would discount the amount of Conquest Points you could get (similar to how a 2 v 2 arena team would get less points than a 5 v 5 team) by solo queuing.

This would make Rated BGs more accessible, especially for low pop realms, but still rewarding organized PvP teams with more points.


I got to here and marked your post down. You're trying to defeat the entire purpose of rated bgs just to farm welfare gear with less effort.

People can form a 5 v 5 arena loss team... they don't even accept the match queue... and get conquest points, which they can buy welfare gear (which, actually, is now top of the line) with. That is the least amount of effort possible.

If you want to take that line of attack, you should probably focus on eliminating the most trivial way to acquire Conquest Points, don't you think?


Edit: Bottom-line is that the new philosophy, with the removal of gear requiring rating, and resilience providing zero benefit in PvE, is that Blizzard does not want to have a gear gap in PvP, but not hand out freebies that people can use for PvE (like in TBC).

PvP will not be about gear gaps, but skill differential, which I think everyone would welcome. Fine, give a different armor tint to the highest rated guys, but I'm surprised that people are being bothered about PvP gear acquisition under this new philosophy.

Gear acquisition is the primary motivator for average players. If it isn't used to promote good behavior, the community will behave badly. It's fine to give good gear to people who are legitimately trying and just aren't skilled, but it's bad to give gear to people who are trying to cheese things and avoid playing for real.

The way Bliz is designing it is that everyone will be able to have the best PvP gear, good players or bad. Good players will just acquire the gear faster.

You won't look at their gear anymore to figure out if they are competent. You will look at his/her PvP rank/rating instead.

I don't care if Private Pwnzer has the same gear as I do. I prefer that everyone will be at the same gear level for BGs, and let the better skilled players win and have the bragging rights through titles.

Screw gear envy. It's about the titles now!


People can form a 5 v 5 arena loss team... they don't even accept the match queue... and get conquest points, which they can buy welfare gear (which, actually, is now top of the line) with. That is the least amount of effort possible.

If you want to take that line of attack, you should probably focus on eliminating the most trivial way to acquire Conquest Points, don't you think?

That needs to be changed, too.

It is changed. In Cataclysm, only moment where you get any conquest points is after a Win.
The major flaw in people's arguments against solo Queing is this:

People somehow think that a trade-channel "Premade" is different than solo Queing, it isn't.

Cut out the GD middle man and allow people to solo Q. Base their BG around the same MMR and have at it. If you get squashed by premades, you only have yourself to blame, but at least give us the option.

One of the things I was looking forward to most in Cata was rated BG's, and now I'm going to have to trade-channel Q to even play? Silly.

Cut out the crap and let us Q solo!
This topic just keeps coming up again and again ad nauseum.

It's really very simple.

Rated BGs are designed for organized PvPers who want to raise the level of competition beyond beating the usual gang of bads (aka me), bots and afkers that you inevitably get through the current solo queing system.

People who are serious about battlegrounds will get a team together to enjoy the rated competition. People like me who are not really Pvpers will continue to enjoy regular BGs.

Organizing a rated battleground team will be no harder than organizing a PvE raid. If you can't be bothered to do this, simply que solo for regular BGs.

It's a good system that provides viable options for all of us, serious PvPer and casual.
Except the point is again missed.... What is the difference between trade-chat "Premade" and solo Q'in? Nothing.

The only difference is the tedium required to get 9 random people into your group, as opposed to hitting a single button... and getting 9 random people in your group.

It wouldn't change a thing to people who made actual premades, like guild runs. They'd still be hundreds of points higher in their MMR and would rarely face non-premades.

There is no reason that I can think of to not add solo Q.

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