Flex Magic Number

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What are the thresholds for gaining additional combat rezzes? 10 is 1, 11 (I think) to X is 2, X +1 is 3. What is X?


15 is the number ive heard
Flex is a great idea. However, if people start excluding even in Flex people will choose LFR in my opinion.

No applications to join guilds or join Flex groups

No reason for annoying Ventrilo, Mumble, what have you

No set schedule

No requirements for 530+ iLevel (which is absolutely ridiculous)

I think it is more fun to do raiding with friends, but not everyone wants to play the game this way. And using Flex to keep people out of raiding is one of the many reasons people don't like "normal" raiding in general, and is spitting in the face of Blizzard technology that was meant to HELP the raiding scene. Flex was meant to include not exclude.

I started playing in this expansion and based on the forums, and some of what I see in trade chat oQueue the raiding scene is mostly a bunch of jerks. Who would want to play with them?

I repeat. Flex raiding was meant to include MORE players. If you are using it in any other way you should go do normal raids.

Who wants to play a game based on some really ridiculous, overly stringent rules. No one except elitists. Flex was never meant for you so leave it be.
It's Flex, let's not pretend you're world first raiding here
If most people understood this then the game would be a better place.

It's like everyone has this mentality that they are actually giving Paragon/Method a run for their money.
I repeat. Flex raiding was meant to include MORE players. If you are using it in any other way you should go do normal raids.
Here is the issue with that.

people seem to have this idea that the same people that demanded 522 item level to run ToT normal will suddenly chill out with Flex. They will not. It is stupid to think they will.

I suggest people do what I did. Form your own groups. The people not using Flex as it is intended is the people it was meant for. Flex is not meant for you to sit around and wait for some elitist to form a group and then exclude you. Flex is so you and your friends can get together and go.

As a former exclusive LFR player, I have no sympathy for those who refuse to step up. Flex is not that hard. Raid leading is not that hard. Just find a group of people and go. Even better if they are all on the same level as you. You may not go 14/14, but you will go 2/14 and begin to progress.

I am sorry but I do not expect elitists to change for me. Let them do what they do. What I do expect is for people who want to raid flex real bad to actually step up and get together. Stop relying on elitists to make things happen for you.
Right now there are some assumptions being made about mechanical breakpoints in Flex, but there are also some valid concerns. The orbs on Norushen for example may need tweaking.

What would be super helpful is if people have examples of breakpoints they think limit them to having a certain number of people, and what those are. It's in everyone's best interests to be able to invite whoever they want, and not feel like they're limited to some number because of mechanic scaling.
I'm more concerned about the number of healers to group size. A group of 15 players with 3 healers, I wouldn't want to invite any more dps who want to go, unless I can also get another healer.
Norushen orbs. Pride prisons and DoTs that need to be dispelled. Those are the breakpoints that pop into mind immediately. They can be dealt with if you go over the breakpoint, but it's easier to just have less people.
So if you're trying to maximize your game time by minimizing your time spent in a flex raid that's overthinking it? How do you feel about the rest of theorycrafting?


Some people are going to try to min/max everything because they find efficiency fun. But the intent of Flex is to offer a low stress option for guilds and friends to progress through content without rigid requirements to show up/sit out to maintain a number of participants. Similarly we like that people can PUG it and find some success in a managed group setting. Feel free to ignore the intent of the feature, but my response is still going to be that limiting yourself to some specific number of people is not required to have a successful run, and can be detrimental to the types of people and raid groups that the feature is directly intended for.

If a raid leader is attempting to build a rigid group to attempt Flex and is telling members of his own 25 Normal team to sit out because some lower number is optimal, that person is overthinking it. If someone is building a Flex PUG and is turning down skilled and geared players because of an optimal number he read somewhere, he's overthinking it. It's Flex, let's not pretend you're world first raiding here.


While I agree for the most part, raid size can be a big factor in flex success on some fights. Thok and Shaman are good examples.

My group spent a good 2-3 hours on each boss using a full 25m raid, but we likely would have cleared it must faster with 10-15 because of too many people failing the mechanics.

I'm not totally disagreeing with what you are saying, but I think your assertion that considering raid size is "overthinking it," ignores the PUG realities of /flex.

I honestly think the number of true "friends and family" that run flex is far lower than the number of PUGs that run it.
Right now there are some assumptions being made about mechanical breakpoints in Flex, but there are also some valid concerns. The orbs on Norushen for example may need tweaking.

What would be super helpful is if people have examples of breakpoints they think limit them to having a certain number of people, and what those are. It's in everyone's best interests to be able to invite whoever they want, and not feel like they're limited to some number because of mechanic scaling.


I did Galakras a few weeks ago on Flex with a group of 11. We struggled to kill her until we dropped the 11th, and continued on as 10. Not only did we one shot her, the tower group (of which I was leading) killed the adds nearly twice as fast without changing our group compensation, and the damage the outer adds, and boss herself, did was extremely easier to manage.

Nothing else was changed in the group other than the removal of the 11th member, a DPS. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the concept of Flex, but some things either shouldn't be scaling, or should not scale as rapidly. Adds in the encounters seem to be the biggest culprit of this. I'd also like to point out this same group never downed the Dark Shaman due to the slimes scalled Health after adding two additional DPS into the group following the Iron Juggernaut, which we two shot with a 10-man group.
10/15/2013 01:02 PMPosted by Lorkra
What are the thresholds for gaining additional combat rezzes? 10 is 1, 11 (I think) to X is 2, X +1 is 3. What is X?


15 is the number ive heard


All Flex runs always have 3 battle rezzes available, regardless of how many players are in the raid.
What truly bothers me about Flex is that people are so hell-bent on finding this magic number that they overlook dps for pug groups because they are 'full' and don't need more people -- when in reality they have a group of 10 players and are denying good players from joining their raid.

In the middle of the week when i'm bored and I just want to sit back, relax and do a little flex on my main and I can't even get into any groups on oQ because they are 'full' (they're kinda missing the whole point of flex) and when I finally get into a group and top the charts, its kinda aggravating. :|

So I already have a hard enough time trying to join a flex on this toon (562 ilvl) and then it's even more difficult trying to find one for my dps warrior (532 ilvl).
Right now there are some assumptions being made about mechanical breakpoints in Flex, but there are also some valid concerns. The orbs on Norushen for example may need tweaking.

What would be super helpful is if people have examples of breakpoints they think limit them to having a certain number of people, and what those are. It's in everyone's best interests to be able to invite whoever they want, and not feel like they're limited to some number because of mechanic scaling.


I think another part of the equation that you may be overlooking (or simply not commenting on) is the fact that so many flex raids are in fact pugs assembled with the use of addons. I've seen blue posts on how popular the new flex option has been, and I am certain this is due in no small part to the fact that you can build pug flex raids cross-realm.

As with any situation where you have pugs, any change in mechanics will cause people who form the groups to adhere to their perceived easiest number. Personally, in a pug flex situation I'd rather invite as many people as I can and then politely remove people who aren't capable of carrying their own weight.

My flex experience so far has been a positive one, and it makes me wish I could raid normal modes with my friends across server as well (or fill a spot with a pug). I hope the development team will consider removing the realm restriction on normal raids in the future.
The magical answer is to add more healers, in my experience of raid leading a slowly growing group of flex raiders.

10-12: three healers
13-16: four healers
17-20: five healers
20+: six healers

2 tanks will get you through everything so far +1 tank for Dark Shaman.

You could probably do with less healers if your healers are good and well geared. My team is split three good healers, three moderate healers. Druids and Shamans are especially great because they can often switch between a heal or dps role for me.

The only requirement I ask of my raiders is to have an ilevel of 500+.. but I've budged that down once or twice depending on which other dps is coming along.

A large chuck of my dps do about 80k. I've got three of four that do 100k+.

The one big hang up I run into, sometimes, is that the rooms for boss fights are large in SoO. While it's nice to have lots (4 or 5.. still not sure the exact number) of battle rezzes, I've had my strategy flounder because none of the rezzers were near the dead person. That's partly my fault for not planning better. Immerseus room especially: where we need two heroisms/timewarps/ancient hysterias.

That said, Flex raiding is flipping awesome. I was struggling to fill a ten man each week prior to 5.4.. now I'm worried my flex team is going to hit max and I'll have to rotate or turn people away! I'd rather have too many raiders then not enough, though.
Our Flex runs usually over heal stuff too. I just fist weave for most of it and occasionally heal if things get rough. In your gear you'll pull over 90k dps.
This is true, but then I can't try and top my healer friend unless she goes holy priest dps.
Some mechanics that scale should probably make clear (either in the journal or visually during the fight) how many people will be required for them. Examples: Norushen orbs, Sha prisons. You tend to have to guess how many people will be needed, how many groups you need to assign, and so on. Orbs in particular I'd love to see with some kind of pre-fight visual so I know, "Okay, 4 orbs, 3 groups to assign + tank orb." Done.

In addition, some "random" targeting has felt very off on some Flex fights. Sha is a good example: often times, the same healer gets buffed repeatedly, meaning that one person has the burden of dispelling for the majority of the fight. This can be great if that healer is on top of it, but it also means if that healer isn't quite up to speed, things can start spiraling out of control.
In addition, some "random" targeting has felt very off on some Flex fights. Sha is a good example: often times, the same healer gets buffed repeatedly, meaning that one person has the burden of dispelling for the majority of the fight. This can be great if that healer is on top of it, but it also means if that healer isn't quite up to speed, things can start spiraling out of control.


The Sha dispel issue is not specific to Flex. I have had several normal mode attempts where a single healer is responsible for nearly every dispel.
10/15/2013 01:29 PMPosted by Adarant
In addition, some "random" targeting has felt very off on some Flex fights. Sha is a good example: often times, the same healer gets buffed repeatedly, meaning that one person has the burden of dispelling for the majority of the fight. This can be great if that healer is on top of it, but it also means if that healer isn't quite up to speed, things can start spiraling out of control.


The Sha dispel issue is not specific to Flex. I have had several normal mode attempts where a single healer is responsible for nearly every dispel.


Can confirm this. The Gift of the Titans often gets put on the same healer for the majority of the fight.
Some people have worked out that there are specific break points for specific mechanics of some bosses that change the makeup of the fight. It isn't consistent though from boss to boss, and so no there's no magic number.

Ultimately if you're trying to min/max Flex by not inviting more people that want to go and who would help build a successful team, you're overthinking it.


Never underestimate raid leaders, some, and most, without a raid core, are just in to see how many peeps they can recruit to get what they want, while keeping effectively easy enough to recruit players that are not pro's.
Some mechanics that scale should probably make clear (either in the journal or visually during the fight) how many people will be required for them. Examples: Norushen orbs, Sha prisons. You tend to have to guess how many people will be needed, how many groups you need to assign, and so on. Orbs in particular I'd love to see with some kind of pre-fight visual so I know, "Okay, 4 orbs, 3 groups to assign + tank orb." Done.

In addition, some "random" targeting has felt very off on some Flex fights. Sha is a good example: often times, the same healer gets buffed repeatedly, meaning that one person has the burden of dispelling for the majority of the fight. This can be great if that healer is on top of it, but it also means if that healer isn't quite up to speed, things can start spiraling out of control.


buff on sha fight isnt exactly random, though. "A" healer is guaranteed to be buffed.... if you only have two or three heals you can expect a lot of repeats

this is intentional to provide a way to handle/mitigate the dots.
I wish the Dungeon Journal could also update its flex section based on the number of people you have. Its really weird going into a fight and not knowing how many of a mechanic there will be.

Mechanics like the number of:
  • Imploding energy on Malkorok
  • Lights for Matter Scramble on Spoils
  • People needed below 50% to transition Thok
  • My two issues with Flex is that it scales by players and not by gear, and that class role ratios are annoying to figure out sometimes.

    There *is* an ideal ilvl to go in as, but Blizzard doesn't want to show it so guilds don't feel bad taking someone to carry.

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