holy paladins lack AoE damage

Paladin
I've posted about this before, and created a few videos about it, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmZZ1RT2_OI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RBgQhycr9U

It kinda sucks that Holy paladins have no baseline AoE damage tools. It makes some encounters while soloing a real pain, and I don't think we should be forced to dual-spec to deal with those encounters. Light's Hammer isn't available until level 90, which made leveling in MoP painful, and I'd prefer not to have to go through something like that again in the next expansion.

I think the perfect solution would be to make Denounce's behavior depend in which seal you have active:

Seal of Truth: Denounce applies Censure to the target (perfect for single-target DPS)
Seal of Righteousness: Denounce deals AoE damage
Seal of Insight: Denounce costs less/no mana and has a chance to heal the paladin

This setup would give holy paladins AoE damage without bloating our castbars with more buttons, and it would make seals relevant for Holy paladins once again. It would probably require some tuning of Denounce's damage, but that would be worth it, IMO.

I realize Ghostcrawler addressed this issue on Twitter, saying that Holy had a lot going for it: a lot of mobility and CC and many instants. (And we've only gotten more CC with the "Evil is a Point of View" talent.) Given what Holy has going for it, GC said that it's okay for us to have some limitations.

But a lack of an AoE damage tool isn't a good limitation for holy paladins to have; it can, in some places, keep the game from being fun. I wouldn't mind sacrificing a little to get some AoE damage; some ideas I have are:

1) Merge Judgment and Holy Shock. When you think about it, both abilities are 6-second cooldowns that grant a charge of Holy Power, and which you cast as often as possible. This might require some rethinking of Selfless Healer, but it would also clean up the castbar a bit.

2) Make Hammer of Justice a Ret- and Prot-only spell. It was a great line of defense for your group in Vanilla, when the threat-game was set up so that casters had a chance to pull enemies off of tanks---I saved some groups with HoJ back then. But if we need a little less CC to be balanced, then I think holy paladins can get by with Blinding Light, Rebuke, and whatever CC talent we choose at level 30.

What do you guys think?
No. We don't need AoE damage. If you want to AoE go prot or Ret. Were not a DPS spec, and people need to stop trying to make us one.
Seals really need a rework. Ret never has a real reason to use insight, justice is incredibly situational, and neither prot or holy has any reason to use anything but insight. They should have times where using another seal is actually appropriate, even if it is just while questing.
No. We don't need AoE damage. If you want to AoE go prot or Ret. Were not a DPS spec, and people need to stop trying to make us one.


I don't want to be a DPS spec, but it would be nice to have something to do when there's not much healing to do and AoE damage is required.

Trading utility (especially CC) for it is a terrible idea though.
its not about adding dps in raids...but if you have ever tried to quest as holy, nothing can kill you but you cant kill them either....groups of more than 2 take forever to kill
We do have Holy Prism, and while I'm 100% pvp so can't speak to dungeon crawling I can say I use it to help spin the flags in that I don't need to target each person who's trying to ninja - just run in, target self, hit Prism, run the F back out...
Prism and Hammer are both on noticeable cooldowns.

I'd like Consecrate or similar. I don't want to be super-awesome DPS, but I'd like to at least be able to do something when AoE is called for, just like I can spam denounce for single target damage in situations where there's no healing needed.
I would accept a Consecrate solution... So long as it cost 50% of mana.
let me rephrase my earlier comment...have you tried any type of questing below LV90....at max level I think our AOE is a bit gimped but at least we have something...but sub 90...give us something at least
Every single class has a usable non-targetted On Demand AOE spell except Paladins that has a cooldown less than 10 secs.

In pvp, every single class can stealth search if they need to....EXCEPT Paladins.

Im not talking about Talent Specs, I'm talking as a class no matter what the spec:

Dk Bloodboil, Death and Decay
Druid Swipe, Hurricane
Hunter Explosive trap
Mage Arcane Explosion, Blizzard
Monk Spinning Crane Kick
Paladin
Priest Holy Nova
Rogue Fan of Knives
Shaman Magma Totem
Warlock Rain of Fire (note it becomes Hellfire as Demon)
Warrior Thunder Clap

Those are all AOE that does not require a target that can assist in finding stealthers in PVP NO MATTER THE SPEC. Paladins dont have that luxury. Either give all Pally specs Consecration or Holy Wrath. Several of those classes also have On demand AOE that can be used pretty much instantly with a target. Again, Paladin is lacking. To use Divine Storm, you have to first build up Combo Points.

Also note Paladin is also the ONLY class that has a level 30 talent that affects ONLY a level 46 spell......
Trading utility (especially CC) for it is a terrible idea though.


I dunno whether trading CC for an AoE damage tool for use while question is really that bad or not; I guess it depends on how balance shakes out in the next expansion.

What did you think of the merge-Judgment-and-Holy-Shock idea, though? I think it'd clean up the castbar and remove an instant, which might help with balance, even if only a little.

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