Open Libram XCIX: See the Light!

Paladin
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"There are plans for Alleria and Turalyon, but not in WoD."

.....
11/09/2013 03:14 PMPosted by Cadenbrie
..yeah, THAT makes sense.


Blizzard and their horrible story telling and attention to their own details and continuity just aren't worth it anymore.


I think I've been trying to tell you that for a pretty long time.
And you are, because you give a damn about your gear. Which is what drives the game.

I'll care just as much about this game when not every piece of my gear has sockets. PvP gear is actually pretty boring, which is fine because the weekly reward system is appropriate for PvP. However this new approach sounds fun for PvE. If gear drops with a socket, it'll be a Diabloesque bonus rather than the norm. It'll be something to get excited over.

I haven't read up on every change, but if my understanding is correct then I support it. If some pieces naturally have sockets and enchants, that's fine too. At least gear modification will be less heavy-handed.

It's a game that's math-driven, and until or unless they make talents that aren't able to be mathematically derived answers to a question, they will always be a multiple choice answer to a question we didn't want to ask. Right from the get-go of the new talent system they weren't "fun" they were right and wrong, because Blizzard can't balance them that closely and that's their argument for removing reforging; it's not "fun" and it's all done by a calculator to give you the best stats anyway.

So shouldn't talents as they are now go away too? They're exactly the same. A calculator tells you which one is best and you use it. Original talents, enchanting, then gemming, and then reforging, and new talents. All of them were designed to be "fun" ways to customize your character, and all of them are math questions.

The math doesn't benefit anyone except those who really like to do the math. I would have no idea on my own how to figure out whether crit, haste, or mastery provides the highest DPS for my spec. Do I enjoy taking someone else's word for it and then lording my knowledge over other players? meh

If the new talent system continues to be as big a failure in WoD as it was in MoP then yes, it should be deleted, but that doesn't mean we should go back to the old talent system seeing as how it didn't offer choice either. If Blizzard can't balance these supposed customization systems then they shouldn't exist.

Down with fluff! I don't like illusions. Substance or gtfo.

That said, the talent system is obviously here to stay. Therefore my suggestion is to have a lot more spec specific talents like we see in tier 100. Maybe then the first few tiers will actually be a choice for Ret. I particularly like the hunter petless talent. I enjoy using a bow, but am not a fan of pets. Some people roll a hunter because they like pets. Good talent design imo, assuming the other talents are competitive.
I particularly like the hunter petless talent. I enjoy using a bow, but am not a fan of pets. Some people roll a hunter because they like pets. Good talent design imo, assuming the other talents are competitive.


I agree with the premise (I like ranged physical damage but not pets, which is one reason I floated the "Rifleman" idea as a future Warrior spec and the "Gunslinger" for a fourth Rogue spec), but I don't think it should be a talent. That should be what Prime glyphs do or some other system. I don't know if talents should be what completely changes our playstyles, though I guess it being SOMEWHERE is better than it being NOwhere.

SPriests got one of those, too. One of their new talents is for them being a DD spec instead of a DoT spec if they want to do that (increases damage against enemies that aren't DoTed and decreases the CD on MB.) Basically giving Priests a simplier "nuke" spec which they've been lacking for a while now.

...personally, I would have preferred it make a HOLY nuker spec, but whatever...
11/09/2013 03:35 PMPosted by Hafleur
The math doesn't benefit anyone except those who really like to do the math. I would have no idea on my own how to figure out whether crit, haste, or mastery provides the highest DPS for my spec. Do I enjoy taking someone else's word for it and then lording my knowledge over other players? meh


That's my point, none of the systems in the game that Blizzard told us were for fun customization are really any different than the old talent system that Blizzard very accurately described as not benefiting people who did or follow the math.. it punishes you for not doing it, and allowed people to build poor performing characters.

Picking talents is only slightly less un-fun than gemming, enchanting, or reforging because the effect of taking a weaker talent still generally leaves you with something noticeably different than picking the mathematically best talent.
That's my point, none of the systems in the game that Blizzard told us were for fun customization are really any different than the old talent system that Blizzard very accurately described as not benefiting people who did or follow the math.. it punishes you for not doing it, and allowed people to build poor performing characters.

Picking talents is only slightly less un-fun than gemming, enchanting, or reforging because the effect of taking a weaker talent still generally leaves you with something noticeably different than picking the mathematically best talent.

So both the current gear and talent systems suck and need to be improved. That's why I'm happy with the removal of hit and expertise, less sockets that hopefully feel more like bonuses than going through the motions, and spec specific talents (of which there are hopefully more rather than just tier 100).

The new stats could be cool if implemented correctly, although I'm not holding my breath.
Jaedong vs s0s .. awesome!
Jaedong vs s0s .. awesome!

jd threw that! he's usually so aggressive. i think he's nervous
So if I'm reading this right, it's basically going to be using GW2's gear itemization?
Picking talents is only slightly less un-fun than gemming, enchanting, or reforging because the effect of taking a weaker talent still generally leaves you with something noticeably different than picking the mathematically best talent.


The difference is that, at least with SOME talents, they either give you new abilities or change how you play. Picking, for example, Selfless Healer or Eternal Flame actually changes your Holy playstyle quite a bit (are you Judging for HP and instant cast bigger heals or are you rolling HoTs?)

Not ENOUGH OF THEM work that way, but at least there's that potential.

When it comes to reforging/geming/enchanting, you run into one of two cases:

Either there IS no option (as a DPSer, you CANNOT choose to forgo hit in favor of other stats. Well, you CAN, but it's not a playstyle option, it's a "do you want your DPS to tank" option), or the option requires you to entirely change out all your gear which is time consuming and expensive - covert ALL of your Haste to Mastery, or to Crit; covert essentially ALL of your Dodge/Parry to Haste/Hit/Expertise, etc.

And even there, how it changes your playstyle is not intuitive and not really noticeable unless you have a lot of stats and you convert ALL of them over.

.

Conversely, the talent and glyph systems that change your playstyle (where they exist) are as costly as the gold to buy the reagents (and in the case of glyphs, the initial investment of buying the glyphs.) You can change them quickly, on the fly, without having to go shopping or to visit a reforger, and the system is quite a bit more intuitive and straight forward.
11/09/2013 04:12 PMPosted by Hafleur
jd threw that! he's usually so aggressive. i think he's nervous

I have no idea who they are tbh, all I know is Jaedong overtook fatal1ty as highest earner of all time, and as fatal1ty is a knob Jaedong is the man! :)
Also: new hairstyles? Hoping for a longer ponytail or drills.
I have no idea who they are tbh, all I know is Jaedong overtook fatal1ty as highest earner of all time, and as fatal1ty is a knob Jaedong is the man! :)

jd is a legend from the first starcraft 1, but in starcraft 2 he always gets second place. still very good, but he keeps choking. i'm a protoss fan but want a good finals!
Also: new hairstyles? Hoping for a longer ponytail or drills.


more beard options please.
Noooo, jd! :(
Also: new hairstyles? Hoping for a longer ponytail or drills.


A lot of the female races need longer hair selections in general. Most of the men having longer hair than the women is wrong for several reasons.
11/09/2013 03:34 PMPosted by Cayse


Blizzard and their horrible story telling and attention to their own details and continuity just aren't worth it anymore.


I think I've been trying to tell you that for a pretty long time.


I must have missed it all this time.

Since one of my two driving reasons for playing WoW at all, or most games I play really, is the story I have to keep pathetically holding out hope it will get better somehow.

But I'm finally realizing that it really won't I guess.
Well you saw what they said about celestial dragons.

"There's no lore for them. But they're cool."

Whatever Metzen decides is cool simply exists because. Maybe they all have serious body image/sexuality issues and that's why they think orcs are the best thing ever.
Eh, in terms of lore/story/plot, I care more about character interaction and things like that than specifically driving the story forward, so "what if" scenarios and side stories are just fine by me.
One bit of irony and a petty pleasure for me is that even though Blizz said "The Horde will have a chance to go back and redefine itself" this new expansion shows something clearly about the Orcs.

The Demon Blood excuse is completely shattered, it didn't work before but this cinches it entirely.

Without any corruption at all the Orc Clans still chose war and slaughter, still attempt genocide on a friendly and peaceful race.

Garrosh showed up, stopped the demonic influence and then got the Orcs to do the exact same thing of their own freewill. Although again it was their freewill before too but still, sweeter this time.

I wonder if they even realize they've written it as such.

Well you saw what they said about celestial dragons.

"There's no lore for them. But they're cool."


Oh yes. Rule of cool wins the day, screw the lore, I saw.

I wonder what Warcraft could have been like if actual real writers were behind it.

Whatever Metzen decides is cool simply exists because. Maybe they all have serious body image/sexuality issues and that's why they think orcs are the best thing ever.


XD

Maybe.

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