Wintergrasp

General Discussion
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On my realm we only had 25 max people in WG due to there being way more horde than alliance.
@Tyo: Oh, you are a rerroller? Wrong anyways, in my side (ALLIANCE) it's just find and kill Horde, so I don't know what you are on about. But I guess that "caring" means shelling out 15 bucks and switching sides?


I have been horde since I joined this game. I will be horde till I leave this game. I do WG for fun. Having the ability to do WG almost completely removed pisses me and most of my server off. and no, caring doesnt mean switching sides. Blackhand, last i saw, had a 58% to 42% alliance to horde ration(more alliance players). yet alliance doesnt even TRY for WG. I never see less than a 9 stack of tenacity because they just dont care. so because they dont care, IM punished by not being allowed to do it the few times during the day im online when it happens. Unlike a normal battleground(thats exactly what this is, since during the battle you cant get in any other way, and its now a 1:1 ratio) you cant just stay in queue and hope to get in. If i queue up at 14:59 on the timer till it starts, i still dont get in.

I still think that making PVE raids require PVP to do is the absolute worst model for a game. It should be available to everyone.
There are two types of low pop sides. The first is the one with very few people overall on the server for a particular faction. THAT is a problem.

The second is when the balance isn't that bad and yet one side does not queue up and basically hoses the other side. All that does is punish one side over the other. Not paying $25 to fix another Blizzard mistake. It's pretty sad that "balancing" the game involves forcing paying customers to just forgo a huge part of the game.

The chances of an entire faction being able to successfully force people not to Q just to piss you off is astronomically small. It's an unstable prisoner's dilemma. People will want the honor. They will Q.
Not my job to do that.

Blizzard caused this problem and they shouldn't be making a solution that just flips the annoyance from the lower side to the higher side. There shouldn't be an annoyance on either side.

Obviously forced world pvp tied to a raid is not a good idea. World PVP should just happen, shouldn't be forced.

Either:

1. Allow both sides to join the raid at any time and make the zone like the isle of quel'danas was but with auto pvp flagged. (that place was amazing)
2. Just make it instanced since it basically is now

That's idiotic. The reason they implemented WG is for the precise reason that World PvP DOESN'T HAPPEN unless their are decent rewards involved.

And as for proposing a solution not being your job then I guess that's just tough luck then. Blizzard decided, correctly, to choose the lesser of 2 evils and you're going to have to deal with it.
I agree with the OP. I tried to get into a WG last night only to have nothing happen. WG was up, but I queued up only to sit there and wait.

Bummer.
Neither this nor the previous iterations of WG on an unbalanced server were solutions.

They need to fix the cause of the problem (the imbalance on the server) and not the result of the problem (imbalanced WG).


OK, so how do you go about doing that? Offering free cookies to people to get them to transfer in?


Not my job to do that.

Blizzard caused this problem and they shouldn't be making a solution that just flips the annoyance from the lower side to the higher side. There shouldn't be an annoyance on either side.

Obviously forced world pvp tied to a raid is not a good idea. World PVP should just happen, shouldn't be forced.

Either:

1. Allow both sides to join the raid at any time and make the zone like the isle of quel'danas was but with auto pvp flagged. (that place was amazing)
2. Just make it instanced since it basically is now


Then the problem is solved-- you just said it "make it instanced since it basically is now." The fix you are suggesting has basically been implemented.
I don't really agree with this system. A few other people have already pointed out that even if you make WG 5v5 if the team that normally would fall prey to the numbers game plays badly they will still lose and you've cost, what was it, 200 people the opportunity to compete in WG/TB for 3 hours.

My server is predominately Ally. We've had games with two full raid groups and lost to like 20 horde and not because of tenacity. If you have 200 people in the corner going "Deeeeerp" for 20 minutes you're going to lose.

As it stands now you have a huge zone that a total of ten people get to play in every few hours. Doesn't seem like efficient design. Even on my server as unbalanced as it is WG still flips regularly between the horde and Alliance. It seems far fetched tome that a server exist where one side keeps it 24/7 but if that is indeed the case make the zone flip automatically at a predetermined time or make the instance/venders available to both sides at any given time. Prehaps then people will participate in world pvp for the fun and quest rather than boycotting because of imbalance or never being one of the luck 5 people from the other side that gets to play.
no it hasn't been fixed. it's not an instance. it's still a world zone. make it a true instance or remove all the "ceilings" which have been put in place on it.

and for those who think that world pvp must be forced. world pvp happens.. /join worlddefense respond to what gets attacked. you'd be amazed at how much world pvp there is really going on at any given time.
I know at least 3 people that did faction change only because of WG. So, good job on that Blizzard.

Ppl complaining had 2 years to enjoy WG, now its time for some players do the same for at least 3 weeks.
And when one side dominates over the other and one side stops queueing? Then everyone loses. I became apathetic to WG for the most part on my alts once I realized that whether I queued or not horde would win. But yet when I'm doing my fishing daily and some alliance comes by and ganks me and I want to queue up and wreck some alliance just for fun, I can't, because alliance participation on my server compared to the relative max level population is awful.

Just don't let them do the raid for the week unless they were in a raid group that won the world PvP for the week. Guarantee that will get participation up on servers that have close max level populations.

Awesome. Punish a group of people that Blizzard is trying to encourage to play the game, casuals. Casuals don't always have 3 hours at a time to play the game, wait for a WG Q and hope for a win.
In addition, the new system at least encourages playing on a faction that's better balanced against the opposing faction. With the old Wintergrasp functionality, players were almost encouraged to be on an overpopulated faction, further contributing to realm balance issues.


Being a part of the overpopulated faction gave one easy access to VoA -- a significant advantage for both PvE and PvP players. If, for a few measly dollars you can increase your chance for top-tier raid or arena gear, then it's almost stupid not to faction change to the other side.

The problem is that the damage is already done and the new system gives players no advantage to even out the sides. The only advantage of being part of the smaller faction is a slight increase of your chance of taking part in the battle, but since the raid, the daily quests and the faction grind are available to anyone the only people with any incentive are the few who just really really like the fight.

So while those of us on imbalanced servers are glad you aren't exacerbating the issue, we'd still like things to go back to normal.

That said, we'll review realms with significant faction imbalances on a case-by-case basis in the event we need to take further action.


Why not adopt a sliding price scale? A server transfer to the overpopulated faction is $25, to the underpopulated faction is $10. Same thing with faction transfers: jumping from the smaller to the bigger faction could cost more than a jump the other way.

A sliding price scale would fix most server imbalances without actually having to go though on a case-by-case basis.
What I'm seeing in this thread is a lot of upset people who are used to facerolling Wintergrasp every time a battle begins due to outnumbering the opposing faction... and now they have to actually play fair.

My server's Wintergrasp, after 4.0.1, became horde dominated. Alliance held it about 4-5 times... In fact, we would have 17 stacks of tenacity and just try to kill horde from our one graveyard. Alliance just stopped queueing.


Since this new patch, we have won more times than I can count on 1 hand. No longer will they outnumber us 10 to 1. We actually get a shot to win.
I like the changes. On my server, like other people have said, once everyone saw that we had 10+ stacks of tenacity people just gave up because they knew it would end with us being GY farmed. For the last 10 games that I've been in over the last 3 weeks we had anywhere between 10-40 people show up. With the games that I've played today and yesterday, there's actually been a lot more people showing up because they now know that we can win.

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