Ret paladins = Rogues

Paladin
It's kind of eerie how similar ret paladins are now to rogues, and not many people seem to noticed or be bothered by it. (As far as a video game can bother one person of course)

Lets recap the rogue and paladin abilities that are nearly identical, or similar.

Holy power = combo points

Crusader strike = Sinister strike

Templar's Verdict = Eviscerate

Word of glory ~ Recuperate. One is a big instant heal and the other is a slow acting HoT, but both spend combo points to heal.

Rebuke = Kick

Sprint ~ Long Arm of the Law. Both are gap closers, and both even have the same sound effect

Slice and Dice = Inquisition. One is haste and one is a holy damage buff, but they both do the same thing, boost your damage by a large amount and you never want it to fall off in PVE.

Kidney Shot ~ Hammer of Justice. Kidney Shot has a much shorter cooldown and requires combo points, but they're both 6 second stuns.

Blind = Repentance

Seal Fate/Ruthlessness talent = Divine Purpose talent. Seal Fate is a guarantee on crit, whereas Divine Purpose is pure chance, but it's fairly easy for a rogue to hit a 40% crit rate and make Seal Fate identical more or less.

Seal of Truth = Instant/Deadly poison. The Censure dot is essentially deadly poison, while the weapon damage per strike is similar to instant poison.

Ardent Defender = Cheat Death. Yeah Ardent defender is a prot ability, but the talents are practically do the same thing.

With the except of Kidney Shot, those are all abilities that were essentially copy pasted from the rogue. Word of Glory/Recuperate and Ardent Defender/Cheat Death were added at the same time.

Now obviously they are not the exact same class. Paladins have much more potent heals. Their cooldowns aren't all that similar. Rogues have bleeds. At the end of the day though, a big chunk of paladin abilities are just things ripped straight from the rogue handbook.

Another issue is that mana is largely irrelevant to ret paladin. In PVE you don't need to pay attention to mana at ALL, unless you hit Consecration as much as you can while never poking Judgement at all, and in PVP you can fairly liberally spam Flash of Light on allies with Judgement, Seal of Insight, Divine Plea, and Blessing of Might restoring mana back quickly

If mana made more of an impact on ret paladins it would help differentiate the two and then truly make a ret a two resource spec, but then you just turn into a rogue that can run out of energy.

I think the combo point system is flawed as a whole for paladins, since it's just combo points with a pretty name. If paladins are to be a unique class they need either an entirely new resource mechanic, or to revert back to a Seal and Judgement based system.

Also, in before the flaming and people saying the Seal and Judgement system was horrible.
you missed Divine Storm = Fan of Knives
you missed Divine Storm = Fan of Knives


I thought about it, but fan of knives doesn't generate combo points, doesn't have a cooldown and it's based off throwing weapon damage now.
rogue combo builders don't have cooldowns to share. They share the energy resource.

fan of knives will eat up your energy and leave you without combo points just like DS.
rogue combo builders don't have cooldowns to share. They share the energy resource.

fan of knives will eat up your energy and leave you without combo points just like DS.


Except Divine Storm does give combo points.
rogue combo builders don't have cooldowns to share. They share the energy resource.

fan of knives will eat up your energy and leave you without combo points just like DS.


Except Divine Storm does give combo points.


Only a 40% chance. Even Blizzard said they modeled Divine Storm after Fan of Knives (which was a mistake).


The tier 10 DS cooldown reset procs all the time though, so you still rack up the combo points quickly.
If paladins are to be a unique class they need either an entirely new resource mechanic...


Mages, Warlocks, Priests, Shamans and Resto/Balance Druids all use mana.
Bear Druids and Warriors use rage, and Death Knight's runic power is similar.
Cat Druids and Rogues use energy, and Hunters focus is similar.

And the only classes that use more than one resource are cats (combo), rogues (combo), pallies (holy power which is pretty much combo), and Death Knights (runic power).

The only class with a unique resource is Death Knights with their rune / runic power combination. And yet every class still feels unique to me. I don't feel like I'm playing a rogue when I log onto my paladin.

At any rate, Paladins and Rogues do use two different resources that are unique from each others, even if a little similar.

Rogues = Energy and Combo Points.
Paladins = Holy Power (which in a way is similar to Combo Points) and Randomness.

I just wish I still had Divine Intervention =P
Word of Glory = Recup? LAWL

I bet Rogues WISH Recup was that good.

I also bet rogues would trade you, man they'd kill for combo points to be stacked on them and unleashed at their leisure regardless of the target they'd been attacking.
At any rate, Paladins and Rogues do use two different resources that are unique from each others, even if a little similar.


Their execution is too similar. They could have easily made it such that certain abilities were executable with different amounts of combo points, um, I mean "holy power". Do you save it for a single target ability or use it early on an AOE.

It's similar enough that I'm disappointed. When they said they were doing something different, I thought it would be really different. Oh well, I guess it's my own fault for getting my hopes up.
The tier 10 DS cooldown reset procs all the time though, so you still rack up the combo points quickly.


And I thought I was going crazy...I had a feeling it was still there.
Rebuke is better unless the rogue is combat (LOL!) and spec'd into imp kick. This has bothered me a bit, since the only real utility my rogue had before was interrupts and excessive damage. Both of which are pretty much gone now.

Repentance behaves a little more like sap...except able to be used in combat, therefore better...

This thread has made me sad :(
lmao i'd like to see a pally SS and try to get the same results a rogue would in pvp. maybe give pallys stealth and posions, i'd promise u'd have better results.
Rogues are limited by energy, Paladins are limited by cooldowns

Have you ever played a rogue?

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