Dont sell out. NO PAY TO WIN.

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slippery slope indeed, what would a new player think when he sees that you can purchase level 90s like hotcake, most definitely not favorable.
Ideally no one has ever hit the level cap of the last expansion, looked at their dungeon blues, and thought "I win."


Be honest bashiok do you not see the issues with this concerning the long term health of the game?

This is going to make the community worse.
Newer players will know less if they take advantage of this.

The money gain will be short term because people will burn out faster.

I don't see anything good coming from this from a business stand point at all.


Honestly I don't think it's going to be as bad as you make it out to be.

We were all new players at one point or another. Can we honestly say that we were all good enough to do normal+ raids or ranked PvP once we hit endgame?

It took me months of being at endgame to actually learn how to play my warlock well back in TBC. I was NOT the best player in the beginning and leveling really didn't teach me much. I've found that as I got more experienced that in order for you to learn a class you have to either be actively learning it and analyzing it or be taught it. That's stuff that happens if you have a buddy who's already playing or you've already experienced leveling so you don't really need to focus on it as much.

Back when I started I wasn't interested in learning how to min-max my class or do anything like that. I doubt anyone who is new does that unless they're already experienced in MMO's. I was too busy exploring and enjoying myself and leveling to get to endgame so I could experience THAT. It was daunting with only 70 levels. We have 30 MORE on top of those now to reach endgame (upon the arrival of Warlords). I'd imagine that could very easily scare away potential new players.

I don't think that there will be significantly faster burnout due to getting a level 90. That's about a month of casual leveling, regardless of your skill level. Easily half that if you're dedicated. Significant burnout will occur if there is not enough endgame content, something irrelevant to whether or not we get a free 90 with the expansion.

If anything is going to be a negative for the community it is going to be the cynical veterans tearing apart the newer players. New blood is something that this game should get and it's something we should preserve. Instead of nurturing these new players, a lot of the community tends to frown upon them if not outright attack and insult them.
01/16/2014 08:52 PMPosted by Bashiok
Ideally no one has ever hit the level cap of the last expansion, looked at their dungeon blues, and thought "I win."
Pretty much. I have no idea why people are making a big deal of this. You get to 90, and you still have 10 levels to go and the greens will most likely replace whatever you have on.
01/16/2014 09:30 PMPosted by Kalorea
I'm not being overdramatic but this is not good for the long term health of the game. I think Blizzard is just looking at the short term.

I doubt the longevity of a game that is destined to only bleed isn't the first thing in mind here. WoW has long outlasted the projected shelf life of an MMO. It has likely far surpassed anyone's expectations of numbers and profits from when it was first released. That'll do, pig - now let's see what money we can get out of the people who are still here.
01/16/2014 08:52 PMPosted by Bashiok
Ideally no one has ever hit the level cap of the last expansion, looked at their dungeon blues, and thought "I win."


/thread
01/16/2014 09:34 PMPosted by Havoc
Ideally no one has ever hit the level cap of the last expansion, looked at their dungeon blues, and thought "I win."
Pretty much. I have no idea why people are making a big deal of this. You get to 90, and you still have 10 levels to go and the greens will most likely replace whatever you have on.

Why not have dungeon gear be purchasable as well, they are just "obstacles" in your way to raids.
01/16/2014 08:52 PMPosted by Bashiok
Ideally no one has ever hit the level cap of the last expansion, looked at their dungeon blues, and thought "I win."


Pshh I got to level 85 on my monk not even in full dungeon blues and thought I won so I never played him again! O wait I just hated how boring that class was and how much of an abomination MoP has been.
01/16/2014 09:36 PMPosted by Flourence
Why not have dungeon gear be purchasable as well, they are just "obstacles" in your way to raids.

"All or nothing" is !@#$ty, unrealistic logic.
[quote="112950530186"][quote]
If anything is going to be a negative for the community it is going to be the cynical veterans tearing apart the newer players. New blood is something that this game should get and it's something we should preserve. Instead of nurturing these new players, a lot of the community tends to frown upon them if not outright attack and insult them.


And if people do that now when you have to actually level and learn some sort of basic gameplay for your class, how will this community react to "new players" who buy their toons?

Want to zone into a dungeon/LFR after waiting for an hour and hear:

"LOL GUYZ JUST BOUGHT THIS 90 HOW DO I PLAY?"

I certainly don't.
01/16/2014 09:31 PMPosted by Hypokricy
Can you buy level 5's now?


if you could, would you be making the same arguement?
01/16/2014 09:20 PMPosted by Nyd
Ideally no one has ever hit the level cap of the last expansion, looked at their dungeon blues, and thought "I win."


Replacing the act of playing an RPG with paying for a pre-leveled character is poor form and has been actively against the TOS since the beginning of the game. One level 90 boost is fine. One per battle.net account. Not multiples.

Also, pay to win means more than just the most literal sense you're trying to use. You are effectively paying to "win" against old content. You are paying for an immediate, in game advantage. That is the very essence of pay to win.

I fully expect to see some future Garrison upgrades behind the shop paywall.

Edit: I'm not surprised the see the sheer number of Blizzard sycophants coming out of the woodwork to defend this. One day you'll wake up and realize you're being fleeced for Activision/Blizzard's bottom line. Gutting the RPG elements for convenience... aren't there threads upon threads of people complaining this very system has caused the game's community to turn to garbage since early Cata? And yet look at the sheer number of people signing on to hand over even more money for the utter destruction of a genre.


Who the hell cares about old content? The only time anyone ever cares about old content is if youre a "twink" raiding guild or for running xmog. Otherwise, youre just trying to spin it in a way that it shoudlnt be spun. Youre trying to win your argument with points you think are valid but are not. Old content doesnt matter. If that's the case, get rid of RAF. With your definition, youre recruiting someone else to power level them through the old content to bring them up to current.
Posted by BashiokIdeally no one has ever hit the level cap of the last expansion, looked at their dungeon blues, and thought "I win."Replacing the act of playing an RPG with paying for a pre-leveled character is poor form and has been actively against the TOS since the beginning of the game. One level 90 boost is fine. One per battle.net account. Not multiples.Also, pay to win means more than just the most literal sense you're trying to use. You are effectively paying to "win" against old content. You are paying for an immediate, in game advantage. That is the very essence of pay to win.I fully expect to see some future Garrison upgrades behind the shop paywall.Edit: I'm not surprised the see the sheer number of Blizzard sycophants coming out of the woodwork to defend this. One day you'll wake up and realize you're being fleeced for Activision/Blizzard's bottom line. Gutting the RPG elements for convenience... aren't there threads upon threads of people complaining this very system has caused the game's community to turn to garbage since early Cata? And yet look at the sheer number of people signing on to hand over even more money for the utter destruction of a genre.


People like this make me happy smart and insightful this is what I like too see in threads.
I thought Blizzard was smarter than this, it's a domino effect.


It is. Anyone who can't see it is just fooling themselves.

I'm not being overdramatic but this is not good for the long term health of the game. I think Blizzard is just looking at the short term.

I am fairly confident this will burn out players faster and make for a much more frustrating experience at max level.
I have to agree. Blizz is looking at the short term. Once everyone is where they want to be, their playtime is going to taper off significantly. Anytime you have a raid tier you see it. Once the newness of the raid wears off, and ppl start getting geared, attendence starts tapering off. People often play with some type of goal in their mind. Whether it's just getting to max level, or clearing heroics.

Blizzard is going to have a hard time keeping up with the content for this. Because lets face it. They've just taken a massive chunk of their content out of the game for alot of people. But we'll see a few years down the road.
One free 90 is the only logical one.
01/16/2014 09:37 PMPosted by Corentine
Why not have dungeon gear be purchasable as well, they are just "obstacles" in your way to raids.

"All or nothing" is !@#$ty, unrealistic logic.

how is mines unrealistic logic?
01/16/2014 09:37 PMPosted by Seffie
Can you buy level 5's now?


if you could, would you be making the same arguement?
Yeah. You're buying player power. But we aren't talking about 1-5. We're talking about 1-90.
01/16/2014 09:39 PMPosted by Letoganimah
They still don't know how to play after levelling 90 times on auto pilot though, so what is different?

I have principles, and purchasing 90s is against them.
01/16/2014 09:09 PMPosted by Kalorea
Be honest bashiok do you not see the issues with this concerning the long term health of the game?

This is going to make the community worse.
Newer players will know less if they take advantage of this.


Yeeaaahhh... I think it's really easy and even attractive to people to daydream about worst case scenarios. I can't think of any games I've purchased where I thought the first thing I would do is create a high level character and skip the new game I just got, even if that option was available to me. I just paid for a game, and my first instinct is to not at least check out the beginning of that game? I don't know. Not to mention there are probably more ex-WoW players in the world than there are brand new never-played-an-MMO gamers.

Also, if you're good at games - you're a gamer - you're going to get a handle on WoW mechanics and systems pretty quick I think. Easy to learn difficult to master is our motto. And if you're not good at games, I don't think a few days of leveling is going to transform you into a Heroic raider.

I know enough people that I know them having leveled many 90's has still not made them good at the game, and so I think there's more to it than just leveling or not. Eeeeeeeven if a brand new gamer chooses to boost to 90 immediately, they're many weeks of content and experience away from where you are now, and that experience is going to be far and away more relevant than the challenges faced while leveling.

01/16/2014 09:09 PMPosted by Kalorea
The money gain will be short term because people will burn out faster.


Faster than someone who wants to play with their friends in the latest content where everyone is, comes back to see their bags a mess, and the long slog ahead of leveling through old content until they can get to where they want to actually play? :) I don't know.

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