PS4 and WoW

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02/12/2014 10:31 AMPosted by Tempcharac
02/12/2014 09:55 AMPosted by Michao
Actually both the PS4 and the Xbox one both use an AMD jaguar APU which is 8 low end cores stacked together with a 7790 gpu, The IPC of these cores is actually very low, So your run of the mill mobile core i7 (4 cores 8 threads @ 2ish ghz) Will curb stomp it from here to kingdom come, Not to mention that wow is still a CPU bound game, 8 low end cores at 1.6 ghz is going to get it's !@# handed to it by 4 cores @ 2ghz.

You know, everyone claims WoW is CPU-bound - which I have not tested; but I digress - but I have always wondered ... just what the heck is it doing with all that CPU time?

Most games don't use much CPU. I'm mean most PS2 games run their game logic on the freaking sound processor - because the VUs were a pain in the behind for that type of work and it really wasn't their strength. The most intensive non-graphic calculations are the physics, but even that is handled by GPUs now - GPU cores are getting more and more generalized.

WoW doesn't have physics worth a damn. It's competitors like FFXIV run ... OK ... on the PS3 even - that CPU wasn't really designed with typical CPU workloads; it excelled at "blindly" crunching numbers. So what the heck is WoW doing?

02/12/2014 09:55 AMPosted by Michao
software differances between the console there may be, Coded to bear metal consoles are, But lets face it, this console generation isn't anywhere near as fast or as adept as any gaming machine build in the last 2 years.

In the end, they do have a HD 7000 GPU, full to the metal access. CPUs aren't everything. Not to mention, consoles don't have the CPU overhead from graphic APIs and drivers.


Most of the graphics are rendered on the cpu still, Especially the shadow engine, Not to mention all the linear single threaded addons and interface, Sound and networking aswell, Forgot to add those two.
02/12/2014 06:56 AMPosted by Taelen
02/12/2014 06:39 AMPosted by Doctour
I would like to play WoW on my PS4 using a mouse and keyboard.

You'll forgive me if I don't really see the point. If you're playing it on PS4 with a mouse and keyboard, how's it any different than playing it on a computer linked through a TV?


wait wait wait. You can do that?
Just hook your laptop up to you tv via hdmi port, use a wireless keyboard and mouse. Then just pretend your laptop is a ps4. Problem solved.
02/12/2014 11:04 AMPosted by Michao
Most of the graphics are rendered on the cpu still, Especially the shadow engine, Not to mention all the linear single threaded addons and interface

That's bull.

We have not had software renderers since UT. Over the years more and more of the graphics workload has been shifted away from the CPU to graphic accelerators.

3dFx Voodoo took over the texturing work from the CPU - with extra stuff like Bilinear filtering.
Geforce 1 introduced hardware Transformation and Lighting
Later we got vexel and pixel shaders which replaced the fixed function hardware of the earlier generations
Then universal shaders what can do the job of either vexel or pixel shaders
Now we have shaders that are generalized enough to do physics calculations.

I fairly certain you can't do shadow maps at a decent level of performance without GPU shaders.

I think the only thing the CPU does nowadays is handle the overhead from graphic APIs like OpenGL and Direct3D - which consoles don't use.

I will give you the Lua addon stuff. But even if you don't using addons ... I mean it's not like the WoW client is compiling and optimizing C++ code or anything. It's a Lua interpreter.
02/12/2014 11:17 AMPosted by Tempcharac
02/12/2014 11:04 AMPosted by Michao
Most of the graphics are rendered on the cpu still, Especially the shadow engine, Not to mention all the linear single threaded addons and interface

That's bull.

We have not had software renderers since UT. Over the years more and more of the graphics workload has been shifted away from the CPU to graphic accelerators.

3dFx Voodoo took over the texturing work from the CPU - with extra stuff like Bilinear filtering.
Geforce 1 introduced hardware Transformation and Lighting
Later we got vexel and pixel shaders which replaced the fixed function hardware of the earlier generations
Then universal shaders what can do the job of either vexel or pixel shaders
Now we have shaders that are generalized enough to do physics calculations.

I fairly certain you can't do shadow maps at a decent level of performance without GPU shaders.

I think the only thing the CPU does nowadays is handle the overhead from graphic APIs like OpenGL and Direct3D - which consoles don't use.

I will give you the Lua addon stuff. But even if you don't using addons ... I mean it's not like the WoW client is compiling and optimizing C++ code or anything. It's a Lua interpreter.


Go download MSI afterburner, Go to a populated city, Turn on shadows to ultra, Watch your framerate go down GPU utilization go down, And CPU utilisation spike through the roof if you don't beleive me, That is why Wow's shadow engine is RENOWNED FOR BEING HORRIBLY DRAINING, It is the number one reason why people with high end computers STILL turn shadows down to maintain steady framerates, Especially the ultra high end raiders.

Literally everything is done on the CPU for world of warcraft, Which is the main reason it can still run on toasters, Granted it runs like absolute garbage but still, Because older cards and IGPS dont have those functions.

PS the blizzard ui is also built on lua, so even if you aren't running addons you are still using Lua
02/12/2014 11:34 AMPosted by Michao
Go download MSI afterburner, Go to a populated city, Turn on shadows to ultra, Watch your framerate go down GPU utilization go down, And CPU utilisation spike through the roof if you don't beleive me, That is why Wow's shadow engine is RENOWNED FOR BEING HORRIBLY DRAINING, It is the number one reason why people with high end computers STILL turn shadows down to maintain steady framerates, Especially the ultra high end raiders.

Literally everything is done on the CPU for world of warcraft, Which is the main reason it can still run on toasters, Granted it runs like absolute garbage but still, Because older cards and IGPS dont have those functions.

PS the blizzard ui is also built on lua, so even if you aren't running addons you are still using Lua

I don't think it's possible to have shadow maps /w decent performance with just the CPU. I'm sure they are using GPU shaders for them. As to why the CPU usage spikes ... beats the heck out of me.
do you really want to play this game and have to pay another subscription fee just play online?
02/12/2014 12:20 PMPosted by Theverchosen
do you really want to play this game and have to pay another subscription fee just play online?


What?
02/12/2014 12:27 PMPosted by Morning
02/12/2014 12:20 PMPosted by Theverchosen
do you really want to play this game and have to pay another subscription fee just play online?


What?


Probably thinking of the Xbox, though they've announced a couple of games that won't require Live to play online with.

EDIT: Looking through this thread; a lot of people haven't come to terms with the fact that the next generation of consoles will easily be as powerful as a gaming laptop (though not a desktop).

Being a desktop gamer I look at laptop gamers the same way that people in this thread look at consoles :P
What do I think? I think consoles suck. That's what I think.
02/12/2014 06:39 AMPosted by Doctour
Final fantasy a realm unborn will be coming out in April for the PS4. They revealed you will be able to use a mouse and a keyboard on your ps4 to play this game. I was wondering if blizzard had any ideas for WoW to be on the PS4, because that would be awesome. I would like to play WoW on my PS4 using a mouse and keyboard. What do you guys think?


But... WHY? It would be the same exact game, nothing changed. You already have it on a PC, why bother getting it on P$4?? Why waste the cash? Why, what?
02/12/2014 01:21 PMPosted by Abendroth
02/12/2014 06:39 AMPosted by Doctour
Final fantasy a realm unborn will be coming out in April for the PS4. They revealed you will be able to use a mouse and a keyboard on your ps4 to play this game. I was wondering if blizzard had any ideas for WoW to be on the PS4, because that would be awesome. I would like to play WoW on my PS4 using a mouse and keyboard. What do you guys think?


But... WHY? It would be the same exact game, nothing changed. You already have it on a PC, why bother getting it on P$4?? Why waste the cash? Why, what?


Apologies for the snark, but it's probably not their money, Most likely someone else in their immediate family that's not a sibling. That's why the easy waste of money.

"Cranky mage is cranky"
my carpal tunnel looks forward to this
02/12/2014 06:41 AMPosted by Alinevia
How would that work? There's too many buttons. Have you played a shaman recently? I have all 4 additional action bars full with skills.

Controller input wouldn't work, and I realise you can hook a keyboard up to a PS4 but what's the point?

FFXIV Has a lot less skills, and was built with the console in mind. It's too late for WoW to be playable on a console.


What you say is all on the i'm a pc fangirl Mind set i tell you how it can and will work if you want to know you ready is call a usb slot every ps4 and even ps3 have 2 or 4 for keyboards and mouse but i my self will say keep wow on pc cuz pc as it is have nothing games wise
02/12/2014 01:21 PMPosted by Abendroth
But... WHY? It would be the same exact game, nothing changed. You already have it on a PC, why bother getting it on P$4?? Why waste the cash? Why, what?

Because some people have PCs that are worse that a PS4?
02/12/2014 01:47 PMPosted by Tempcharac
Because some people have PCs that are worse that a PS4?


Buying a PS4, with PS+ (now needed for online gaming) and some supportive games, will cost more than what you need to make your PC WoW playable.
02/12/2014 01:55 PMPosted by Abendroth
02/12/2014 01:47 PMPosted by Tempcharac
Because some people have PCs that are worse that a PS4?


Buying a PS4, with PS+ (now needed for online gaming) and some supportive games, will cost more than what you need to make your PC WoW playable.


PS4 is $400
PSN is $50 for a year I think.
Supportive games?

PC aren't any cheaper and don't last quite as long.
Final fantasy A realm Reborn... Will allow A mouse and keyboard but it will also allow the controller, Also A realm reborn utilizes the controller the right way, WoW uses quite a few buttons, but with macros I can see it being capable.
02/12/2014 02:26 PMPosted by Tempcharac
PS4 is $400
PSN is $50 for a year I think.
Supportive games?

PC aren't any cheaper and don't last quite as long.


Supportive games as you probably won't be buying the PS4 JUST to play WoW...
And you don't need to change your whole PC to make it playable. A new graphic card? Some RAM? It doesn't take much to run WoW.

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