Trinket Question (prot)

Paladin
Which are the best trinkets to use as a super haste focused Prot build with the gear I currently have?

I have access to:

1. 2/2 Spark of Zandalar
2. Brutal Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault
3. Thok's Tail Tip (LFR)
4. Vial of Living Corruption (LFR)

and I can farm for Alacrity of Xuen (535).
Best trinkets would be: Spark (preferably heroic thunderforged), Thok's, and Vial, with Rook's Talisman being situationally useful.

The brutal talisman was good, but just doesn't stand up to current tier trinkets. And Alacrity is just plain lousy.

As far as which 2 of the 3(or 4) to choose, that's a bit of preference. Some will prefer to go double haste with Thok's and Spark, and truthfully that's the only way to get close to the 50% haste mark before BiS heroic gear. Some will prefer to keep the vial and use one of the haste trinkets (personally I'd choose thok's over spark). And some will switch between them based on the fight.
BIS would be Dual amp.
Best for your current gear would be (in personal opinion) Spark + Thok.
Not sure I would agree with dual amp. Because in order to do that you'd be giving up half of a trinket for a useless proc (int, which does absolutely nothing for us). Maybe if there was an agility amp trinket it would have *some* value, but for whatever reason Blizz decided rogues, hunters and other agi users didn't need an amp trinket (seriously, wtf). The spark gives more haste than the amp trinkets do as well as has a non-useless proc, and I think that outweighs the additional mastery and crit damage that the second amp trinket would offer.

I also wouldn't really classify them as "BiS" since doing double amp or amp/haste in BiS will put you significantly over the haste cap, and the best place to drop that extra haste is undoubtedly by dropping a trinket (most likely for either a vial, rooks, or even hubris).
Spark of zandalar + thoks tail tip if your gear scales the % bonus high enough.

SoTR is your biggest damage reduction, along with GoAW for "oh !@#$" moments, and divine protection for magic. Having it up more frequently is far more important than having your defensive cooldowns be cut by 30-45 seconds.

Use spark and vial until you're around 550+ ilvl, than swap to thoks tail tip. The stam is nice for low ilvls and your defensives will be off cooldown quicker. I only say to do this because your haste/mastery are both quite low, making sotr quite weak and not consistently up.
02/16/2014 01:49 PMPosted by Pancakê
Not sure I would agree with dual amp. Because in order to do that you'd be giving up half of a trinket for a useless proc (int, which does absolutely nothing for us). Maybe if there was an agility amp trinket it would have *some* value, but for whatever reason Blizz decided rogues, hunters and other agi users didn't need an amp trinket (seriously, wtf). The spark gives more haste than the amp trinkets do as well as has a non-useless proc, and I think that outweighs the additional mastery and crit damage that the second amp trinket would offer.

I also wouldn't really classify them as "BiS" since doing double amp or amp/haste in BiS will put you significantly over the haste cap, and the best place to drop that extra haste is undoubtedly by dropping a trinket (most likely for either a vial, rooks, or even hubris).

Wat ?
Point a : All procs are +- useless, the str bonus that you're calling not useless ? Slightly less than 3% of my Veng on any meaningful fight (and Int does give us spell crit)

Point b : Amp trinkets do give less pure haste than Spark in +- all cases (or at least all levels of haste that you should be at). However, in BIS setup You're going to be over haste-cap anyway, if you're using Amp + Spark (as you mentioned yourself), thus allowing you to replace Spark for 2nd Amp, loosing some amount of haste, but gaining a significant amount of Mastery, (As a bonus the amps scale off each other) and still being close to 50% haste.

Take this : http://imgur.com/rmUeFhM and replace 2nd trinket with a 2nd amp and BAM, 50% haste, close to 30% crit, still decent mastery and a nice crit damage multiplier.

Take this : http://imgur.com/CV0RHyY and replace 2nd trinket with a 2nd amp and bam, 50% haste, over 35% mastery, and still slightly higher than average crit.
02/16/2014 01:49 PMPosted by Pancakê
I also wouldn't really classify them as "BiS" since doing double amp or amp/haste in BiS will put you significantly over the haste cap, and the best place to drop that extra haste is undoubtedly by dropping a trinket (most likely for either a vial, rooks, or even hubris).


Wouldn't Malks & Thoks be pretty close to BiS because of the way 4pc and Malks can interact? (Honest Question) At least from a survivability standpoint.

Rook's just seems lackluster just because it the on use seems of limited utility in this tier.
How does the Vial interact with our 4p t16? That has to do with SotR and EF/WoG use. Neither of which are on the list of abilities affected by Vial.
And Rook's is effective on a lot of things this tier. Thok's breath, jug's flame vent, immerseus, Malik's blood rage...

Sure it's situational, but it should be in your bags.
02/17/2014 02:14 AMPosted by Liminara
Point a : All procs are +- useless, the str bonus that you're calling not useless ? Slightly less than 3% of my Veng on any meaningful fight (and Int does give us spell crit)
And I would put that 3% more Vengeance as way way WAY more useful than a small amount of spell crit.

02/17/2014 02:14 AMPosted by Liminara
Point b : Amp trinkets do give less pure haste than Spark in +- all cases (or at least all levels of haste that you should be at). However, in BIS setup You're going to be over haste-cap anyway, if you're using Amp + Spark (as you mentioned yourself), thus allowing you to replace Spark for 2nd Amp, loosing some amount of haste, but gaining a significant amount of Mastery, (As a bonus the amps scale off each other) and still being close to 50% haste.
In a BiS setup you will be over 50% haste using JUST Thok's, rendering the additional haste of either a 2nd amp trinket or spark as nearly useless. And while mastery isn't a bad stat, defensively stam is still much better, regardless of gear level. There's little doubt in my mind that in terms of both dps as survival in an otherwise BiS setup that Hubris would clearly be better than a caster/healer amp trinket, and then of course the Vial and Rook's retain their utility value.

I really do not see any situation where using the caster/healer amp trinket would be worth using over any of the far more obvious choices.

02/17/2014 10:22 AMPosted by Secsibisch
Wouldn't Malks & Thoks be pretty close to BiS because of the way 4pc and Malks can interact? (Honest Question) At least from a survivability standpoint.

Rook's just seems lackluster just because it the on use seems of limited utility in this tier.
As Keld pointed out, there is no interaction at all between the Vial and our 4p. But in general those are the trinkets I tend to consider for a generic BiS. Rook's gets mentioned because it is situationally useful and worth picking up. I mentioned Hubris simply because as far as dps trinkets go when we're at or close to the haste cap it's probably about the best option out there (maybe skeer's talisman if you really wanted just dps, but then you're trading stam for strength at a rather unfavorable rate). And when not in BiS or at the haste cap yet, spark gets considerable mention as well.
02/17/2014 11:38 AMPosted by Pancakê
And I would put that 3% more Vengeance as way way WAY more useful than a small amount of spell crit.

And i would put in passive stats as way more than anything else provided.

In a BiS setup you will be over 50% haste using JUST Thok's, rendering the additional haste of either a 2nd amp trinket or spark as nearly useless.

To put it simply : no.
FYI, after running simcraft with 4 different Gearing choices :
Crit - Double Amp
Crit - Amp/Stam
Mastery - Double Amp
Mastery - Amp/Stam

In both cases Double Amp lead to a higher DPS, lower TMI, lower DTPS
Crit lead to obviously greater damage, while Mastery resulted in lower TMI and DTPS.
02/17/2014 10:39 AMPosted by Keldoran
How does the Vial interact with our 4p t16? That has to do with SotR and EF/WoG use. Neither of which are on the list of abilities affected by Vial.


Sorry, was thinking 2pc, not 4pc (which gets you the 2pc anyways). The Flex version gets Div Prot to 25 secs, with a 10 sec uptime, and a 10 (iirc) heal.
The T16 2p bonus is pretty blah. While it can help smooth the road a tad after a high damage period, it's not like that was an issue to begin with. With EF rolling nearly non stop, and the long duration of DivProt itself, covering a recovery period with an extra HoT will, at best give healers more time to focus an extra heal elsewhere (or in the case of mine, tell her cat Mr. Waffles how cute he is as she looks away from the screen), and at worse lead to EF overheals.

Also, to make max use of the tier bonus synergy, you would have to use DivProt on CD. Something that I would not suggest. Unlike most dps CDs, it's not wise to spam our tanking ones as they pop. And I can't think of an instance where being able to pop DivProt 6sec sooner was required.

A bonus for sure, but nothing I would consider important enough to put on a BiS list.
02/18/2014 11:15 AMPosted by Keldoran
A bonus for sure, but nothing I would consider important enough to put on a BiS list.


I was thinking that it, combined with the other CD reductions might put it over the top. Thok seems like an obvious #1, just because of the AMP. The second trinket seems to be more of an "by omission" choice. Jugg's has been panned by the community, Rook's seems situational (good to have, but not always needed). Malk's seemed like next best choice.

But thank you for clarifying. I like the logic behind why we do things, and this explanation explains perfectly.
/facepalm
If thok is #1 due to amp, then so is any other amp.
Yes, there's a str proc, but str proc is trash and not that important for our gear.
02/18/2014 02:08 PMPosted by Secsibisch
02/18/2014 11:15 AMPosted by Keldoran
A bonus for sure, but nothing I would consider important enough to put on a BiS list.


I was thinking that it, combined with the other CD reductions might put it over the top. Thok seems like an obvious #1, just because of the AMP. The second trinket seems to be more of an "by omission" choice. Jugg's has been panned by the community, Rook's seems situational (good to have, but not always needed). Malk's seemed like next best choice.

But thank you for clarifying. I like the logic behind why we do things, and this explanation explains perfectly.


Ya. It's useful at times. Vial was the first tanking trinket I got from this tier. It was pretty helpful with new encounters, where everyone was still figuring things out. Few times having GoaK available 30 sec sooner did work out. Usually when a dps goofed up and I was on my own. Honestly though the legendary cloak came in handy more often (esp since we can ignore the 2min CD). I replaced it few weeks later with a TTT. By then I doubt I was making use of the reduced CDs beyond AW.

I keep heroic rooks in my bag and rock TTT with HTF Spark.

The only time I've ever seen anyone use the Dodge/Vamp Aura trinket was a druid. But bear was their off spec and they had the heroic version. I might grab one at some point just incase it somehow becomes uber for WoD leveling, but that's it.

If I ever do feel compelled to replace spark, I'd consider Hubris, but I'm not really sold on it. I don't need the stam, and a 90 sec CD for a crit bonus only makes me go meh.

Maybe I'll start trying to coin an Int amp trinket to play with. And piss off the casters when I get a HWF version hah.
02/18/2014 02:21 PMPosted by Liminara
/facepalm
If thok is #1 due to amp, then so is any other amp.
Yes, there's a str proc, but str proc is trash and not that important for our gear.


Any AMP is better than no AMP, but 2 AMPs don't really help us for the reasons stated above. So iff picking between AMP's the STR would come out on top. It's part of the choice by ommision.
02/18/2014 04:21 PMPosted by Keldoran
02/18/2014 02:08 PMPosted by Secsibisch
...

I was thinking that it, combined with the other CD reductions might put it over the top. Thok seems like an obvious #1, just because of the AMP. The second trinket seems to be more of an "by omission" choice. Jugg's has been panned by the community, Rook's seems situational (good to have, but not always needed). Malk's seemed like next best choice.

But thank you for clarifying. I like the logic behind why we do things, and this explanation explains perfectly.


Ya. It's useful at times. Vial was the first tanking trinket I got from this tier. It was pretty helpful with new encounters, where everyone was still figuring things out. Few times having GoaK available 30 sec sooner did work out. Usually when a dps goofed up and I was on my own. Honestly though the legendary cloak came in handy more often (esp since we can ignore the 2min CD). I replaced it few weeks later with a TTT. By then I doubt I was making use of the reduced CDs beyond AW.

I keep heroic rooks in my bag and rock TTT with HTF Spark.

The only time I've ever seen anyone use the Dodge/Vamp Aura trinket was a druid. But bear was their off spec and they had the heroic version. I might grab one at some point just incase it somehow becomes uber for WoD leveling, but that's it.

If I ever do feel compelled to replace spark, I'd consider Hubris, but I'm not really sold on it. I don't need the stam, and a 90 sec CD for a crit bonus only makes me go meh.

Maybe I'll start trying to coin an Int amp trinket to play with. And piss off the casters when I get a HWF version hah.


Right now, my tank has LFR Spark, Malk's, the Cleave trinket, and I've got the Intel AMP trinket. I've been juggling around to play with the best setup. I've been coin rolling for TTT every week, with no luck, as that is my preferred option (to go with Malk's).
02/18/2014 08:53 PMPosted by Secsibisch
Any AMP is better than no AMP, but 2 AMPs don't really help us for the reasons stated above. So iff picking between AMP's the STR would come out on top. It's part of the choice by ommision.

What reasons ? The only reason i see is that you would be over 50% haste, and that's just plain wrong.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum