Ret Paladins, abilities and feeling useful.

Paladin
Areos thanks for saying the same thing that Cadenbrie said. It's obvious you didn't anything else I said after the original post.

The couple spells I quoted were for an example of them being used In conjunction with others for great affect. Just like your opinion of how asinine consecration was to you I still think HP is asinine now. Yes it made Rets more dynamic but that doesn't make it fun in my opinion.

I'm not trying to ruin Paladins. What power do I have to do that?

Any idea outside of your opinion are met with LoL you raid bro?! Grow up.
Okay i have to ask since i played Prot in BC, Wrath, and CAT, changed to Ret in Mop because of necessity for the raid. What was bad about 4.0 for rets? being serious, i see people always bring it up in the forums but i have really no idea why it was so bad?
As far as ret now i love everything but not having a non target aoe. Do i love INQ um its not the pressing the button every minute, its just don't like that feeling every once in while i get when im about to to tag the boss, then having to reapply it so i dont lose INq ( talking about single boss target fights) but it doesn't happen that often and i don't know how to fix it and it might screw us up more but considering how much utility i have from Devotion aura, to Bop etc etc wont believe how many times ive saved the raid with them and im still top 3 dps so ill take the minor inconvenience.
And i like the outlook for WOD the talent were we get back are four piece bonus from TOT( excuse me i cant remember the talent off hand and i cant find it on the web) but with it i think will hit like a truck.
Peace out
Tar
4.0 introduced Cataclysm and launched Tier 11 and Season 9.

The shift between WotLK and Cata was especially harsh for ret thanks to the introduction of a brand new resource system, undertuned new abilities, and several flawed talents + mastery. We were HP starved and our damage was extremely RNG reliant (and remained so for the entire expansion).

Most rets remember the Word of Glory change in S9. In an attempt to nerf prot's hilarious healing output in raids, WoG was saddled with a baseline 20sec cooldown for prot and ret only. Since healing was ret's primary defense in PVP (since our damage was so undertuned and our cooldowns were weak/vulnerable, it was hard to play offensively), we were left high and dry.

In short, 4.0 ret was completely terrible in both PVE and PVP. Dark days.

That's why a lot of rets who played back then consider MoP ret very successful, at least mechanically. The OP's suggestions would destroy much of the positive progress we've made, so that's why he's receiving negative feedback.
Ah thank you very much Lobster, that makes since, as a Tank i stacked Mastery and really didnt think past that as i recall. Never paid much attention to Ret but i can see why now everyone hated it in 4.0.
Thanks for the insight!!!
Tarlon
i love holy power myself flows really well atm with how its set up
02/16/2014 02:53 AMPosted by Tarwahe
Areos thanks for saying the same thing that Cadenbrie said. It's obvious you didn't anything else I said after the original post.


I did read your later posts. I didn't bother to respond to them because others already covered why such ideas were degenerate to the class.

02/16/2014 02:53 AMPosted by Tarwahe
The couple spells I quoted were for an example of them being used In conjunction with others for great affect. Just like your opinion of how asinine consecration was to you I still think HP is asinine now. Yes it made Rets more dynamic but that doesn't make it fun in my opinion.


Trying to design an entire talent tier around an ability that was never effective or interesting to use is a complete waste of the developer's time. Consecration sucks, has always sucked and always will suck, and Blizzard did the right thing by removing this ability from Retribution's toolkit. I never want to see Consecration back in any way, shape or form.

Trying to make something "fun" is pointless because everybody has their own view of what is and isn't fun. Are you trying to ruin my fun by degenerating Retribution's play style back to WotLK button mashing? The reason Holy Power was implemented in the first place was to give Retribution a more logical, deeper style of play with the implementation of a more relevant resource, and although it sucked back in Cataclysm, Holy Power works perfectly fine today. Vouching to remove this system is pretty much asking Blizzard to throw away everything they've worked towards and improved upon the past two expansions revolving this class, all in the name of mindless nostalgia.

No. Just, no.

02/16/2014 02:53 AMPosted by Tarwahe
I'm not trying to ruin Paladins. What power do I have to do that?


Thankfully, none. That doesn't mean you aren't going to be criticized for spreading these awful ideas, especially considering you haven't spent nearly enough time playing the current Paladin class to realize how far it's come and improved it is compared to previous expansions.
Damn gurl, you sexy, gotta find you on Sarg now.
02/15/2014 02:58 PMPosted by Pancakê
02/15/2014 02:02 PMPosted by Tarwahe
Why bring a Ret Paladin when Prot and Holy bring the same utility? We need our holy punch back so we can compete!
Exactly what utility did Ret bring in Wrath that wasn't also brought by Prot and Holy back then?


Randomly jumping in here with nothing constructive.. but we had replenishment in LK iirc correctly, it was the only reason i was ever brought to a raid... Bring 1 ret so everyone can have 0.5% of their mana!

Also pretty sure shadow priests also had replenishment /shrug
02/16/2014 09:13 AMPosted by Areos
Trying to make something "fun" is pointless because everybody has their own view of what is and isn't fun. Are you trying to ruin my fun by degenerating Retribution's play style back to WotLK button mashing?


So you flame me for what I believe may be more fun for the class? As an experienced Paladin you are in a good position to educate or mentor but instead you just hop on and have an attitude that anyone who doesn't agree with you has degenerate ideas. I raided as holy back in Vanilla WoW because that was the ONLY spec that was allowed to come to raid for Paladins. I went through the FoL spam, 5 mins buffing and randomly DI'ng one of the many bad hunters we had in our 40-mans just to spice up endless raid night progressions from MC to Naxx. At least in TBC I could tank and not heal anymore. I had to wait till WotLK to show up rocking a 2h ready to beat things in the face.

I appreciate your criticism Areos I honestly do. I enjoy debating with people who will want to debate and not just cast off ideas. How do you think the Ret Paladin has made it this far? By standing aside and letting things just happen? Not at all.

How you see consecration is how a lot of people see Inquisition, Divine Protection or any other of the myriad of abilities that aren't great or engaging. What is the point of pressing on button every minute to cast inquisition? Why can't it have a ramp up time like most trinkets do and as long as you're hitting something it stays up then the buff wears off after 30 seconds if you stop? Most of us use an addon to manage it for you anyway. How fun or dynamic is that?
Nice post OP, I appreciate your effort to making retribution "better" than it is right now, however...the way you're going about it seems very back-trackish. Reason I say that is because ret evolved from just hitting stuff on CD to hitting stuff on CD with "Finishers" and a maintenance buff. It added more complexity to the class, but not by a lot, I still think ret plays about the same as it did in WotLK, just everything doesn't hit as hard as back then (relatively speaking).

Consecration...I miss those days when I hit that on CD and...forgot about it. I miss it as a paladin flavor spell, but it didn't function very well, except only for little AoE, and getting stealthies out of stealth in PvP. I don't think Ret and Holy will ever see it back in their toolkits.

I noticed you were talking about 90 talents though, and I agree that they feel kinda "lackluster". When I say lackluster, I mean they feel about the same as consecration, ya hit the ability, and forget about it, with the exception of Lights Hammer due to its snare component. I mentioned this in a different thread, but what if say Execution Sentence gave a 5-10% damage increase to TV during it's duration? or say Light's Hammer gave a damage increase to Divine Storm for all mobs affected by its AoE? I think changes like that would take away some of the blandness, as you would be more compelled to switch talents out for heavy AoE or single target fights.

The only thing I can think of that ret needs a buff in (damage, PvE wise), would have to be exorcism. For a proc-related spell, it hits very little, and provides little besides it being a ranged ability, a charge of holy power, and an ability to use on GCD, when you have nothing else to hit. I actually liked the t15 2 set that gave us extra holy damage when we used Exorcism on a target, it actually justified prioritizing it again, which to me makes sense since it's a proc.
02/16/2014 01:09 PMPosted by Holymez
I noticed you were talking about 90 talents though, and I agree that they feel kinda "lackluster". When I say lackluster, I mean they feel about the same as consecration, ya hit the ability, and forget about it, with the exception of Lights Hammer due to its snare component. I mentioned this in a different thread, but what if say Execution Sentence gave a 5-10% damage increase to TV during it's duration? or say Light's Hammer gave a damage increase to Divine Storm for all mobs affected by its AoE? I think changes like that would take away some of the blandness, as you would be more compelled to switch talents out for heavy AoE or single target fights.


Thanks for posting brother. You hit the nail on the head with your response in what I was trying to say. That we can do better with spells and how we use them together. Sure Consecration on its own is boring but when used in combination with other spells it has great affects.

When I said I missed the WotLK ret is was the fun factor. The burst, defensive CDs and utility. Sure we have more buttons to push now but that doesn't make it more fun.
02/16/2014 11:10 AMPosted by Tarwahe
I appreciate your criticism Areos I honestly do. I enjoy debating with people who will want to debate and not just cast off ideas. How do you think the Ret Paladin has made it this far? By standing aside and letting things just happen? Not at all.


They've progressed by having changes made to their rotation, mechanics and play style that have proven to be effective and relevant to end-game content of the past two expansions, not because of digressive, dysfunctional mechanics fueled purely by nostalgia.

02/16/2014 11:10 AMPosted by Tarwahe
How you see consecration is how a lot of people see Inquisition, Divine Protection or any other of the myriad of abilities that aren't great or engaging. What is the point of pressing on button every minute to cast inquisition? Why can't it have a ramp up time like most trinkets do and as long as you're hitting something it stays up then the buff wears off after 30 seconds if you stop? Most of us use an addon to manage it for you anyway. How fun or dynamic is that?


Inquisition itself isn't a deep or interesting mechanic, but it's a maintenance mechanic that's both easy to maintain and provides an effective increase to our damage. It requires Retribution to actually think where they spend their Holy Power, even if just once every minute or so, and allows Retribution to swap between targets more easily than what other maintenance mechanics would allow for. Singular abilities don't define a class or specialization, but how they interact with the rest of the tools in your toolkit.

Compare this to Consecration, which was always low on our spell priority because its damage was complete crap and nullified during any instance of required movement. Neither abilities are deep or interesting, but at least Inquisition has a positive effect on our rotation while Consecration has been relegated to low priority filler for as long as it's been a thing.
02/15/2014 02:43 PMPosted by Tarwahe
You are reducing your dmg output by using Glyph of Inquisition just so you can mindlessly hit a button less often.


You seem like you're very new, and should stop and relearn the spec fully..


Why do you have Glyph of divine storm and inquisition glyphed? Please tell me you don't use those for raiding.

And you should use str/haste gems for 4 or 5 sockets, you reforged 800 out from exp but still have 7.6% exp. You should learn the spec fully.
02/16/2014 07:41 PMPosted by Khazu
Why do you have Glyph of divine storm and inquisition glyphed? Please tell me you don't use those for raiding.


Maybe you should find out what glyph of inquisition does after the patch.
02/16/2014 07:50 PMPosted by Hotdoge
02/16/2014 07:41 PMPosted by Khazu
Why do you have Glyph of divine storm and inquisition glyphed? Please tell me you don't use those for raiding.


Maybe you should find out what glyph of inquisition does after the patch.


sacrifice, mass exorcism, blinding light, double jeopardy (situational) and (situational) divine protection glyphs are far more useful. However, they're only 14/14N so I doubt they've had to use them.
pls respond

I just find it ironic they tell a person to learn their class but i immediately see issues when I armory them.
Considering its holiday time and farming love bracers is all the rage, maybe he is aoeing down some rabbits and figures the minour heal and quality of life are important for mindless farming.

Bashing a guy for his glyphs is pretty moot considering how often they change. You have no clue as to what he was doing before he logged out, so to say he doesn't know his class because he doesn't have raid glyphs saved when he camped is pretty short sighted on your part.
If they're aoeing adds to farm bracelets/timeless isle stuff, using mass exorcism is much more efficient.
02/16/2014 11:10 AMPosted by Tarwahe
What is the point of pressing on button every minute to cast inquisition?


With Glyph of Inquisition since 5.4, ,I cast Inq at the start, again in 30 sec,then as long as I am killing something I don't ever cast it again.After the last add dies,I still have 2 minutes left most of the time. So for add heavy fights its very nice. Of course most people carry Tomes and change as needed.
02/16/2014 07:58 PMPosted by Khazu
02/16/2014 07:50 PMPosted by Hotdoge
...

Maybe you should find out what glyph of inquisition does after the patch.


sacrifice, mass exorcism, blinding light, double jeopardy (situational) and (situational) divine protection glyphs are far more useful. However, they're only 14/14N so I doubt they've had to use them.


Off the top of my head glyph of inquisition works well in fights like immersus, nuroshen, galakras, spoils. Sha is a great contender too but my guild does it a little differently.

02/16/2014 08:14 PMPosted by Khazu
pls respond

I just find it ironic they tell a person to learn their class but i immediately see issues when I armory them.


If you see issues with my armory let me know, always a good thing to have a fresh perspective.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum