So...Ret.

Paladin
The topic basically sums it up. Wheres all this difficult rotation we were supposed to get? You know, the one that was supposed to make us non-face roll?

CS, Judge, CS, TV.....this doesn't seem like an exciting rotation, especially when half the time I'm wandering around aimlessly waiting for those two abilities to come off cooldown, because TV hits like a wet noodle unless its got three combo points to back it up.

Will haste fix this? Is there some ability Im not using? Beyond random procs for Exo and using (insert name of move that gives CS three combo points every time you use it here) to spam TV for dmg is there anything to make this rotation not boring as hell?

Cmon, the FCFS ret pallies of lore might have been easy to play but atleast I was doing stuff for most of the time, now I sit and watch white hits come up while waiting on cooldowns.

My DK doesn't have to deal with this, neither does my warlock. Hell, my hunter has a more interesting rotation and he's level 51.


Many other classes have bland rotations, that's just how it is. Try a DK or Enhancement Shaman if you're looking for a bit more flavor.
I sort of feel bad for ret players because I think they got changed because of holy paladins. I mean at the end of the day most holy paladins raided using one spell, HL, and never worried at all about mana. Beacon tank A, cast HL on tank b, rinse and repeat. There was a couple holy paladins who used other tools, and a few others still who went the FoL route. But in the end you have a healing class making raid content a joke.

Enter holy power, enter change, and now we have whatever it is. Holy changes are great and have been since patch. Ret, on the other hand, is sort of hit or miss depending on what phase of the ret talent trees you liked. I, myself, having played ret and holy since retail, found Seal of Corruption / Blood play style the best. It had a nice risk vs reward to frontload a lot of burst damage. I don't see that today. And when I line it up next thing I know the horde mage next to me is sporting a new pair of wings...

True story - the other night I was trying to finish a pvp quest out in Ice Crown. I go to engage a horde shaman. I didn't see the mage next to him behind a pillar (my fault). I pop everything and next thing I know I'm laying face down in utter amazement. I see the mage giving me some love sporting my wings :) Next thing I know I get a tell - from said mage's alliance toon - telling me how much he appreciated the wings. We joked about it, and ended up being rather civil about it all and now friends. But the point is...

Support - hybrid - is a paladins role now. Even with the best gear and skill I believe primary dps classes will, and "should", win the charts. It is the tax we pay for playing a Paladin, or so I believe.

But I do miss frontloading burst damage. Maybe other classes don't have it anymore either and I'm just pissing in the wind. But that is what I see as a weakness.

I want to be able to downshift to a lower gear for that burst damage to take someone out who is close to death....
its really not anymore complicated or "skilled" than before, now its just all about hitting CS to buid 3 HP charges and then doing TV. The "skill" is really all just random procs of hand of light or Art of War. Seems like only 2 buttons get alot of use really, CS and TV buttons with some random ones thrown in.
Pretty much the way I see it when I'm running it. I'm mainly holy but questing or doing some quick randoms as ret - that is all I do anyway.

Again, I had more fun using Seal of Corruption than anything currently in the game...

I still find it rather amusing how many times I'd manage to kill myself during the Thaddius fights... :(
suppport-hybrid... true, thats the role we've been assigned. but considering that the only real utility we have left after they took a whole bunch in 4.0.1 is that we can cleanse diseases... Hooooray! oh, and we have a buff, But so does every single other class. Technically you could say we can heal as well, but with such a small mana pool as ret you cant really do much but heal yourself, and plenty of other classes can do that as well.. I dont mind not pulling as much dps as pure dps classes. thats just expected, but an ele shaman can heal the **** out of themselves and still pull god-like dps. A DK can off tank just by switching presences and pull crazy good dps as well. Alot of classes are bringing the same amount of utility to raids along with beiung able to pull their weight in the role they signed up as. DPS. ret is a DPS spec! let us do our gd job! its embarrassing running ret anymore..
Its seems as if u havne't played a paladin they had crap for burst before pp just wine about paladins caeu they can bubble an stun now bubble is useless an they have nothing for burst or anything for damage now they are about useless in pvp if ur ret guess its going bac to the old lvl 60 ways lolret ur ret>> lol, all the changes ive seen are to holy an prot an prot is doing more dps than ret for the most why nerf ret so bad to being useless where pp dont even want them in their raids guess if i wanna raid or be useful ill have to reroll a different class or be a tank or healer


What in the hell are you blabbering on about? For Christ's sake the new forums have a spell checker and you can't even get THAT right.

Ever heard of a period?
suppport-hybrid... true, thats the role we've been assigned. but considering that the only real utility we have left after they took a whole bunch in 4.0.1 is that we can cleanse diseases... Hooooray! oh, and we have a buff, But so does every single other class. Technically you could say we can heal as well, but with such a small mana pool as ret you cant really do much but heal yourself, and plenty of other classes can do that as well.. I dont mind not pulling as much dps as pure dps classes. thats just expected, but an ele shaman can heal the **** out of themselves and still pull god-like dps. A DK can off tank just by switching presences and pull crazy good dps as well. Alot of classes are bringing the same amount of utility to raids along with beiung able to pull their weight in the role they signed up as. DPS. ret is a DPS spec! let us do our gd job! its embarrassing running ret anymore..


You also have the ability to interrupt, stun, CC (Repentance) remove snares, remove snares from others, buff with BoK or BoM, increase raid damage via talents, divert damage via HoS, provide replenishment, protect others via HoP, spot heal in emergencies, protect yourself by becoming immune, provide auras and AoE stun via Holy Wrath (very useful when glyphed come Cata content).

And how exactly are paladins lacking in utility? I'm not responding to start an argument, but most of your post is flat-out false. Just as an example, a DK can't tank any better as DPS by switching to Blood Pres. than you by just buffing yourself with RF. In fact, a DK looses all of their RP by doing so, which is technically worse if you think about it. They nerfed Blood Pres so that it only gives a 30% armor bonus. Putting on a sword and board has a similar effect.

No wonder Blizzard is hesitant to buff Paladins, even if they need it. It's hard to filter the constructive, good posts from the rubbish that makes up 99% of these forums.
You do realize that every thing you just posted, aside from Hand of freedom and bubble can be done by other classes as well, right? So.. what youre saying is that because we have 2 class specific tools that we should be alright with doing absolutely terrible dps? blood presence also grants 8% more stam and 8% dmg reduction. Im not saying its a dk specific thing, all im saying is that other classes can provide just as much utility but have not gotten the same nerf-bat treatment to their dps.

On a side note, what are you even doing here? just trying to poke holes in people who actually play ret's discussion? contribute something useful instead of trying to prove how All-knowing you think you are. go do something constructive, like get a girlfriend and stop wasting my time nub.

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