No Flying in WOD, terrible

General Discussion
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03/13/2014 09:11 AMPosted by Imtavislol
Flying kills immersion. There's just no argument... there will be way more wpvp, way more interaction between players and just overall it will bring back that "world" experience. For a game that is pretty much stand in cities all day waiting for que pops I can't possibly see how you would ever think that this would be a bad thing for the way the game is now.

This is what it NEEDS it needs more ideas like this that will keep the players interacting and keep you immersed into the world...that's practically the whole point of an mmo experience.


To tell you the truth, losing the ability to fly every expansion is immersion breaking. Not flying.

Think about it. You fly through Azeroth, Outlands, Northrend, and now Pandaria but when we step foot in Draenor we somehow forget how to fly then have to go and jump through hoops to be able to pay for the ability to miraculously remember how to fly. How does that make any sense?

I could see where due to conditions you had trouble staying in the air until you trained for the flight or something. But completely losing it each and every expansion is by far the biggest break in immersion than anything else.
03/13/2014 12:44 PMPosted by Leladin
03/13/2014 12:41 PMPosted by Innardsdecay
It seems like a very slim minority are happy about no flying,


It seems that way because forums, especially the WoW forums, are used almost exclusively for people to complain. There has never been a point in the history of these games that the WoW forums were overwhelmingly positive about changes to the game: every single change, EVERY SINGLE ONE, has had every "Good job" or "I like this idea" completely drowned out by a "THIS RUINS THE GAME FOR ME AND EVERYONE ELSE HERE AGREES"

That's the way of forums, it's the way it's always been.


so ingame people are happy about no flying in WoD? I don't think people are ever happy to have options taken away. Maybe if we were getting something awesome at the expense of flying, but at this point it just seems like a lame way to extend content. I agree that we should not fly for leveling, but after we have seen everything there is to see it's just pointless
WOD's development seems to be increasingly catering to the two most vocal groups of fans, end-game raiders and PVP'ers.

Unfortunately I would wager that most players while they dabble in one or the other do not consider themselves to either. Seems math isn't the devs strong suit.
03/13/2014 12:49 PMPosted by Dljman
03/13/2014 12:41 PMPosted by Innardsdecay
It seems like a very slim minority are happy about no flying, How about they just choose not to fly? I don't understand how making things more annoying for everyone because a few people want to relive their glory days. I don't think blizz is just doing this for that reason It's an obvious time sink to artificially extend content.


I think they are very well aware of that. My prediction is that they will stick by their guns on no flying initially, but it will open up as soon as you hit 100.

Nope. Get over it. If you don't like it you can mail tractors to all your farmville friends in protest
03/13/2014 12:50 PMPosted by Judgernaught
03/13/2014 09:57 AMPosted by Nethaera
This is not new for an expansion to not allow flying immediately upon entering into a new expansion

Yes the new part is having to wait an entire patch cycle after hitting level cap to once again be able to fly. Why is it you and a lot of others seem to be conveniently glossing over that part?


no that isn't right people are complaining because they are saying there won't be flying at all in dreanor
@Skillscore, thank you - you have summed up my feelings on the matter immensely. I will still hopefully enjoy WoD, but if it turns out to be bad for the game, I'd like for Blizzard to actually do what needs to be done to keep the game alive - or not listen to the vocal minority, which right now seems to be that one main developer and whoever has agreed with him.
03/13/2014 12:43 PMPosted by Morning
Yea. The whole issue here is if no flying on Draenor will be permanent.

Flying at 6.1

Vs.

No flying at ship and then we'll see.

Why won't someone clarify this?


This. I'm all for no flying until max level like we've always had it in the past or even no flying until the first patch. What concerns me is quotes like Alex Afrasiabi's on twitter: "plan is no flying at ship and see how it plays out." Now that needs to be clarified because it makes it sound like there might no flying at all during the expansion. And that would be a terrible precedent. It smacks of another content gating mechanism much like dailies were with the Golden Lotus in Mists. Blizzard you need to stop worrying about controlling content consumption and worry more about the quality of the actual content itself.
guys let be honest

even with no flying

WoD will still be better than MoP
03/13/2014 12:43 PMPosted by Blasco
And yet people will continue to insist that it's just for the sake of creating a time sink regardless of what Blizz posts to disconfirm it.
MoP levelling right now is a gigantic time sink. Cata you could fly day one. Wrath you could fly if you already had a character high enough to buy the tome of cold weather flying and mail it to your alt you were bringing in.

I don't care if I can't level the first play through without flying.

Being someone who goes for loremaster every single expansion though

!@#$ right off with not allowing me to fly. I have better %^-* to do than dread my life while I level because some game developer demands I take endless hours to do something that really has no reason for why it's taking so long to begin with.

What is no flying at level cap, if not a time sink?

making me run on a ground mount and somewhat try to avoid mobs while I'm actually paying attention to what episode of INSERT TV SHOW HERE I'm watching on another monitor takes away from the game. Right now I pay attention to where I'm flying. I don't watch TV when I'm playing unless I'm just farming herbs/minerals, and I tend to pay attention to the game in general because it doesn't take me a day and a half to get anywhere.
03/13/2014 12:50 PMPosted by Casmavara
03/13/2014 09:11 AMPosted by Imtavislol
Flying kills immersion. There's just no argument... there will be way more wpvp, way more interaction between players and just overall it will bring back that "world" experience. For a game that is pretty much stand in cities all day waiting for que pops I can't possibly see how you would ever think that this would be a bad thing for the way the game is now.

This is what it NEEDS it needs more ideas like this that will keep the players interacting and keep you immersed into the world...that's practically the whole point of an mmo experience.


To tell you the truth, losing the ability to fly every expansion is immersion breaking. Not flying.

Think about it. You fly through Azeroth, Outlands, Northrend, and now Pandaria but when we step foot in Draenor we somehow forget how to fly then have to go and jump through hoops to be able to pay for the ability to miraculously remember how to fly. How does that make any sense?

I could see where due to conditions you had trouble staying in the air until you trained for the flight or something. But completely losing it each and every expansion is by far the biggest break in immersion than anything else.
Remember, we still can't talk to the opposite faction even though we've interacted with them for 9 years.
03/13/2014 12:52 PMPosted by Murlocholmes
Wrath you could fly if you already had a character high enough to buy the tome of cold weather flying and mail it to your alt you were bringing in.


the tomes weren't available at release, if I recall correctly. they came out some time later.
Look, my thought on the issue focuses on the concept coming from the gentleman who stated you guys were seeing if players might enjoy an expansion without any flying... I'm fairly certain you can already see the answer to that. We hate the idea that some of our mounts, including ones people worked hard for (the Pandaren Phoenix Mounts) will be unusable in the upcoming expansion's content. I'm still grinding for Ashes of Al'ar myself, and would be horribly disappointed to get it to drop and then not be able to use it for two+ years of content.

The current idea of no flying til the first big content update (6.1) is annoying, but acceptable in my opinion. Just don't keep it past that. I mean, the Collector's Edition comes with a flying mount... if you can never use that aspect of it in the expansion it comes out in, isn't that kind of a mixed message?
03/13/2014 12:50 PMPosted by Hammercraft

Nope. Get over it. If you don't like it you can mail tractors to all your farmville friends in protest
Go back to League.
03/13/2014 12:50 PMPosted by Judgernaught
03/13/2014 09:57 AMPosted by Nethaera
This is not new for an expansion to not allow flying immediately upon entering into a new expansion

Yes the new part is having to wait an entire patch cycle after hitting level cap to once again be able to fly. Why is it you and a lot of others seem to be conveniently glossing over that part?


Because this way less people see blue posts on it and assume people are complaining about the leveling part 90-100 of it and with posts like that they will just move on.
03/13/2014 12:50 PMPosted by Innardsdecay
so ingame people are happy about no flying in WoD? I don't think people are ever happy to have options taken away. Maybe if we were getting something awesome at the expense of flying, but at this point it just seems like a lame way to extend content. I agree that we should not fly for leveling, but after we have seen everything there is to see it's just pointless


No, the point isn't "the forums are negative so people elsewhere must be happy," its "the forums are negative because forums exist as an outlet for people to be negative about things."

We won't know how everyone feels about flying or the lack thereof until after it's implemented. I would wager a lot of people still don't know about no-flying in WoD. I would also wager that while the people who do have an opinion are split 50/50 on this decision, most people don't and will continue to not actually give a !@#$ and will just play the game as it's presented.

WoW has to keep doing things like this to help keep the game fresh. It's an MMO that's had the largest playerbase of any game in it's genre by a staggering amount, and has been "alive" for longer than any other MMO has. People who don't like it enough will probably leave. People who left because of flying or really hated it (don't kid yourself into thinking it was universally praised as a positive) will be inclined to come back and give it a shot.

In any case, foaming at the mouth because of a decision that isn't even set in stone in a version of a game that isn't even in Beta off a tweet that can be interpreted any of 1000 ways seems like a total waste of time to me beyond "Hey Blizz, I'm keeping an eye on this and I am concerned"
03/13/2014 12:37 PMPosted by Wyzo
03/13/2014 12:34 PMPosted by Riptal
...

From now on, if the possibility of flying is your only criteria to play a game or not, that's sad! If you're a gamer from that long, you should know that there's some really good games out there where you cannot fly.

You sound a bit narrow minded... Why not giving a try before? Maybe a game or a MMO without flying is not as bad as you think! In Wow it's just a small protion of the game that you cant fly.

My trust goes to Blizz on that one!

Soory for my English!


Dude, I started fantasy RPGs when we didn't even have dice, we used CHITS (1974). MMOs followed on the original form of fantasy RPGs. Flying is a criteria necessary for me.


Chainmail woot fistbump... It does pre date me by about 8 years. early 80's no school like the old school
03/13/2014 12:54 PMPosted by Meiluy
Look, my thought on the issue focuses on the concept coming from the gentleman who stated you guys were seeing if players might enjoy an expansion without any flying... I'm fairly certain you can already see the answer to that. We hate the idea that some of our mounts, including ones people worked hard for (the Pandaren Phoenix Mounts) will be unusable in the upcoming expansion's content. I'm still grinding for Ashes of Al'ar myself, and would be horribly disappointed to get it to drop and then not be able to use it for two+ years of content.

The current idea of no flying til the first big content update (6.1) is annoying, but acceptable in my opinion. Just don't keep it past that. I mean, the Collector's Edition comes with a flying mount... if you can never use that aspect of it in the expansion it comes out in, isn't that kind of a mixed message?


totally agree im fine if at some point after hitting max lvl we get flying or at the first major patch we get it id be ok with that but to not allow flying at all the whole expansion is totally against everything we were told up to when you started preorders and I want my money back if I can' fly at all in the new expansion. mainly cause you guys lied to us about it
03/13/2014 09:57 AMPosted by Nethaera
This is pretty true. You couldn't get flying in Outland until you reached maximum level and bought the skill. Wrath of the Lich King you couldn't fly right away either. The same recently for Mists of Pandaria in which until you reached the maximum level to get the ability to do so. This is not new for an expansion to not allow flying immediately upon entering into a new expansion.

That said, the developers are also aware of the concerns that people may have about how easy or difficult it will be to get around to the various locations. They have said before that they want to still provide convenient ways for people to still travel without minimizing the impact on exploration within the zones. As always, we welcome constructive feedback and discussion provided it's kept constructive. We'll also continue to keep an eye on things not only within beta (when that occurs) but also when we go live to see just how people truly end up playing and interacting.


Speaking as someone who's played since around Patch 1.3: I won't buy Warlords of Draenor until I can fly in it. If you disallow flying the entire expansion, I won't buy the expansion. If you hem and haw when asked "when will there be flying," I won't buy the expansion. Until flying is implemented, not just mentioned, you don't deserve my money. You haven't earned it.

This change is a slap in the face to millions of us who put time and effort into mount collections. Pissing all over those mounts we worked to earn, when some took hundreds of hours apiece to get, is the last straw for me. I think it's the last straw for a lot of people.

Until you fix that, goodbye.

Let's talk about the more general problem for a moment. You're still hemorrhaging from two expansions of terrible ideas. The same developers keep asserting know knew what makes games "fun" better than millions of subscribers. Need I remind you that half those peak subscribers left? Are you sure you know better than we do?

Maybe it's time to admit that your players were right. Just like Cataclysm -- when, to review, you made leveling suck, made healing and tanking so stressful no one dared to do them, threw alts against the brick wall of random heroics, and made progression impossible for all but the seething mongos -- your players [b]scream/b] better ideas than you ever had, and you just ignore us. Just like Cataclysm, you sneer "what would you know" with noses high in the air. Gee, sorry my doctorate's not game design, but I like to think I understand my hobbies as well as the next player.

The funny thing was that people saturation bombed your forums late in LK with exact predictions that this would happen. We called it, play by play. You didn't listen! We predicted lots of initial sales, looking promising...then a mass quit, starting week 3 or 4. We predicted why. People hit the brick wall of Heroic PUGs. Dungeons became impossible. Badly overtuned raids sucked every ounce of joy out of the PVE endgame. Progression stopped. Leveling was boring because you replaced the old system (an unprecedented success) with a rail rider ("if it ain't broke..."). PVP was not an option because the Mary Sue specs (Frost Mage) drove everyone but themselves away.

You still didn't listen. You're still not listening. Does this sound like a good idea to anyone else?

Look, I'm not saying this as some clueless scrub who wants free things. Check my Feats of Strength. My guild had our server's first H LK 25 kill and has been the top Horde progression guild for most of MoP. If you check GuildOx, we're #1 on Uther for PVE now (working on H Thok). And ... we stopped playing for two years because the ideas in Cata were so bad. And we're ready to quit again. When your changes are so toxic and awful that they drive away progression players, and that's who they're supposed to favor, what do you think those ideas do for the rest of the community?

...ready to listen yet?

Seriously, think about this. Think about whether disallowing flying mounts is really that smart. Think about whether "let's make healing HARD again" will solve more problems than it causes. Think about whether another round of overtuned heroics is going to encourage more people to play.

Do you really want to make a series of "we know better than you" mistakes a third time? Do you really think your expansion will be a worthy BC sequel if you drive away the last few players who started before BC?

You can't afford to do that.
03/13/2014 12:46 PMPosted by Frosteye
03/13/2014 12:41 PMPosted by Innardsdecay
It seems like a very slim minority are happy about no flying, How about they just choose not to fly? I don't understand how making things more annoying for everyone because a few people want to relive their glory days. I don't think blizz is just doing this for that reason It's an obvious time sink to artificially extend content.


Actually considering how many people approve of No Flying on the forums, I would say most of WoW is probably okay with it. Usually when a change happens everyone who is unhappy with it floods the forums, while those who are content do nothing.

Also no flying wouldn't work unless it affected everyone, but nice try.


That's an absurd statement to make seeing that the only people on the forum that were initially aware of it were people who saw or read notes about the interview where no flying at all was alluded to. And seeing as those players represents a minority of the WoW playing community, that in no way says that most of WoW is ok with it. As to those on the forums, its not even clear cut one way or another here either. Heck, I imagine there are more WoW players that don't even visit the forums than those that do.
Neth:

A simple answer please.

In the expansion.

Will flight only be gated to 6.1 or is it Blizzartds plan to remove flight entirely.

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