No Flying in WOD, terrible

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I'm sure I can. But this is a question of game balance and where the developers pushing the game to where they want it, not making sure you get your virtual points in the most efficient way possible.


No, this is a matter of World of Warcraft being a game which is designed to entertain its customers; removing a convenience which has been a part of the game for the majority of its lifespan by this time is contrary to that value.
03/13/2014 01:30 PMPosted by Killgraft
Except a lack of flying would probably alleviate ganking issues, not exacerbate them.
How so?

It's very easy to slow/stun someone on a ground mount until their choice is to dismount and die or keep trying to run and still die. I have seen this happen to many people, including myself. Mind you, I have also been the culprit. Now the worst that seems to happen is a DK grips you back down and you fly away a second time.

Either way, I don't play on a PvP server so the impact to ganking is insignificant to me. I realise that's personal opinion, but I also firmly believe it's not something to even consider when thinking of whether or not you're going to allow flying. Stuff like the towers out in eastern plaguelands was fantastic for world PVP. Same with Halaa. World events tend to work wonders for the promotion of PVP, and we've not had any of that since burning crusade. I don't think Flying itself is what ruined it, but the lack of implementation to benefit it.
03/13/2014 01:40 PMPosted by Leladin
Pro-flying argument: I want the world to feel big and immersive again.
Anti-flying argument: I don't like playing the game I want to skip all the content and have instant gratification.

Wow simplifying arguments in a dismissive way is sure fun I'm glad you're here :)


Answer to the pro-flying argument: Don't fly.

Answer to the anti-flying argument: Content is already made trivial by the fact you're at level cap. No flying just makes it take longer without making it any more fun.
03/13/2014 01:40 PMPosted by Leladin
03/13/2014 01:38 PMPosted by Innardsdecay
Pro flying argument: If you don't like it don't do it
Anti flying argument: I don't like flying so no one should be able to do it


Pro-flying argument: I want the world to feel big and immersive again.
Anti-flying argument: I don't like playing the game I want to skip all the content and have instant gratification.

Wow simplifying arguments in a dismissive way is sure fun I'm glad you're here :)


so wait you seem to agree with me lol
03/13/2014 01:41 PMPosted by Dawnstríke


No, this is a matter of World of Warcraft being a game which is designed to entertain its customers; removing a convenience which has been a part of the game for the majority of its lifespan by this time is contrary to that value.


Do those both have to be opposed ideals?

WoW is convenient enough as it is, a little edge and grind pumped back into the game isnt going to kill it.
03/13/2014 01:39 PMPosted by Killgraft
Both arguments have valid points on either side, but to say "if you don't like flying than don't fly" is pedestrian at best and doesnt nearly reflect the legitimate opinions of people you are opposed to.


Implying the anti-flying camp has any legitimacy to their argument beyond certain areas like Hyjal or Icecrown.

It's like a smoker complaining about their clothes smelling and refusing to quit smoking.
03/13/2014 01:38 PMPosted by Sumpelina
If you do not like flying in WoD then be a smart customer and do not buy WoD, and cancel your sub as well to incentivize Blizzard to make changes that you approve of.


That was the conclusion I came to.

I still planned on getting WoD when the flying went live thought and I'd like to know if that's still a possibility.

Also, if you're arguing that you can still use giant winged mounts on the ground then you missed the point.
You don't spend $25 on a mount with giant wings to walk it everywhere. You buy it because it looks awesome flying.

Even Blizzard knows that. You know how you can tell? THEY DON'T SELL GROUND MOUNTS FOR REAL MONEY
03/13/2014 01:24 PMPosted by Murlocholmes
Faster levelling of alts. The post you quoted even clarifies that. I actually enjoy taking a while to level my first play though. Call me crazy, but I enjoy checking out the content as I level. After I'm done levelling, I normally go and do loremaster. So now I've got every quest done. Why shouldn't I be allowed to level my alts faster, when I have to get out and do the same quest I've done multiple times over. Only one starting zone this expansion too, I'd like a change of flavour from time to time. Right now levelling seems tedious, and to be honest it did in Cata too.

Well, like I said, you're just asking for faster leveling. I mean, if your issue is the rate at which you level alts in WoD, that would more effectively be addressed by giving you an exp boost like with heirlooms or that paid service. Flying isn't the only method to make your alts level faster. Though personally I would contest the notion that alts need to level faster in Draenor, but yeah if they do then they may as well implement a tome that makes them level faster.

03/13/2014 01:24 PMPosted by Murlocholmes
Mobs would have to scale with level for that to be a reality. Level 60 mobs in hellfire are not a danger to me at level 70, even if I'm riding around on a ground mount farming herbs/minerals. I did quite a lot of this early BC, it was faster to travel with epic ground mount speed than the 60% increased speed the first tier of flying used to offer. The only thing I see it actually taking away from is the amount of time I don't spend playing the game.

You're only addressing the "dangers" part in the sense of what enemies you'll encounter in lower level zones in Draenor. Well, yeah, lower level "dangers" in Draenor won't be as dangerous as the ones in the areas appropriate to your level. I don't think that's a point that needs to be contested.
But you'll mostly be spending your time in the areas that are relevant to you, with enemies that are at your level, as well as whatever obstacles the content comes with. Obstacles don't really work if you can fly over them.

03/13/2014 01:24 PMPosted by Murlocholmes
It's not that I can't. It's just that I much rather would pay attention to what I'm doing. I don't really enjoy watching TV that much. I find after I watch an hour or two I feel like a bit of an idiot. Like it's been draining on my brain. Playing a game at least causes some sort of thought process. If I'm going to be spending much of my time trying to travel from Point A to
Point B, I feel like the whole point of playing the game has been defeated. There's no reason for me to pay attention to a ten minute flight path or run somewhere.

If you're traveling long-distance, I don't see what would keep you interested. Even right now in the MoP model you just point your flying mount to a direction and fly straight. If you're grounded, and you're not using a flight path, at least you're avoiding enemies and following paths, so it would keep your attention on the game.

03/13/2014 01:24 PMPosted by Murlocholmes
They significantly improved Azeroth flight paths with the release of Cata. And then they released MoP with the flight paths in it's current situation. Someone's already pointed out trying to take a flight to timeless isle as an example.

I recall old flight paths used to swerve around a lot more, and they improved them, but they could be improved on even further which is what they're trying to have for WoD flight paths. But my point was that we'll still have flight paths, so it's not going to take forever to get from one point to another distant point. Your ground mounts will mostly be for the short-distance travel.
03/13/2014 01:42 PMPosted by Killgraft
Do those both have to be opposed ideals?

WoW is convenient enough as it is, a little edge and grind pumped back into the game isnt going to kill it.


That would be the case if no-flying represented "edge and grind" as opposed to simple tedium.
03/13/2014 01:38 PMPosted by Innardsdecay
Pro flying argument: If you don't like it don't do it
Anti flying argument: I don't like flying so no one should be able to do it

I could never understand that anti mentality it's the same with so many other things in life. If you don't agree with it just don't do it. It's not right to take away people choice just because you don't agree with it. I would be willing to bet all of these people saying flying is such a bad thing use it.

I remember when they first released this information, someone from a realm in my CRZ was arguing for the removal of flying. Not long after seeing that post I went to Ironforge and lol wouldn't you know it? They were on their nice flying mount flying around IF.
Seriously guys, if flying is just so bad, then why do you use it? Why did you buy/farm all of those flying mounts? They're being the biggest hypocrites and tbh it's hilarious
It's only for one patch. I think you nicotine flight habit can survive until then OP.
Ok, so not being able to fly right out of the pack at level 90 in Draenor is just fine. That way I can run around on my slow ground mount and explore the places and do the quests. However, there are several major issues that I see once you hit max level and still can't fly.

  • 1. Gathering ore and herbs will seem to take forever. It might take you 20 more minutes to get all the things you need which might not seem like a big deal, but in terms of a game that is a long time to do nothing but run around and click things.
  • 2. For those that choose to have a lot of alt toons that they wish to play after their mains hit 100, seeing the same content for the 5th time doesn't really float our boats if we can't do it quickly. Yes I realize the amount of timer, effort, blood, sweat (and possibly tears) that your entire staff has put into creating the next expansion for us to enjoy. From what your developers have leaked to us it looks absolutely great. Graphics are top notch and the updated models make this game feel new instead of being 10 years old.But seeing the same stuff over and over and over again without being able to know that I can fly later on is a big let down for me and quite possible make me rethink leveling too many of my characters.
  • 3. The amount of time, effort, gold, reading, and working my little butt off to obtain flying mounts, the passives to let me fly, and the training will feel almost worthless at level 100. Will I still be able to fly all over Azeroth, Northrend, Outland, and Pandaland (yes I call it that)? Yes. But the amount of time I will spend in those areas now will be next to none as I quest, run dungeons, and raid in the new zones.
  • I think a way I can sum this up in a TL;DR for most people is this:
    Flying mounts have been made so important in WoW that their exclusion from an expansion will feel like a massive hole and somewhat of a middle finger to the player. We like your content, but we also want to spend our time doing things we want to do. Not spending increased time just getting to places we want to do things in or selecting a flight path and going afk for 5 minutes while we wait to get there.

    So Blizzard. Please reconsider flying at max level. As I said I am fine not flying until I reach it, but I will feel incomplete as a player without it once there. Thank you.
    03/13/2014 01:42 PMPosted by Dawnstríke
    Answer to the pro-flying argument: Don't fly.


    Except you can't "not fly" when the world is designed for you to fly. It forces you to fly or just makes you gimp yourself for no reason if you choose not to. If the world isn't designed to be freely flown through, then you don't have that problem.

    03/13/2014 01:42 PMPosted by Dawnstríke
    Answer to the anti-flying argument: Content is already made trivial by the fact you're at level cap. No flying just makes it take longer without making it any more fun.


    You're making it sound like it's impossible to design content that won't be made trivial by the fact that you're at level cap or something. Why do you think that's what they're going to do? Like why do you think they're going to fundamentally change this aspect of the game (flight) but still design content the way the do now?

    03/13/2014 01:42 PMPosted by Innardsdecay
    so wait you seem to agree with me lol


    I do agree with you in that simplifying people's arguments to make them look silly so that I can get what I want is a fun thing to do. That's what you're doing too, so yes, I agree that it is fun.
    03/13/2014 01:46 PMPosted by Roninkaru
    It's only for one patch. I think you nicotine flight habit can survive until then OP.


    According to the developers they are considering not introducing it at all in WoD.

    The results of which will be hilarious to see. I imagine Draenor will have even less people "out in the world" than Pandaria.
    This is reason why blizzard should not listen to these people. you guys complain on almost everything they do. you complained that you don't see end game raiding. So they got you LFR. then people just afk and raging for not having loot.... you guys complaining that there nothing to do in wow. So they introduce Pet battle and story line daily quest to get yourself busy.. Guess what you rage to blizzard that you refuse to do them.... They complain that heroic are too hard. So they nerf heroic trash and bosses and now you laugh at blizzard failure to make wow easy. So....They don't want you to rush WoD and burn out quickly. Sometime all of u are ungrateful just selfish players that want be everything to be handed everything to them.
    03/13/2014 01:43 PMPosted by Dawnstríke


    Implying the anti-flying camp has any legitimacy to their argument beyond certain areas like Hyjal or Icecrown.

    It's like a smoker complaining about their clothes smelling and refusing to quit smoking.


    The Anti-flying camp are generally so not because of wanting to rustle your jimmies or for pure nostalgia or to make things take longer for the sake of it, it's because they can see how this could change the dynamic of the game in a way that is not necessarily completely negative.

    And I see what the people on the other side are saying. I personally disagree, but I dont not write them off as empirically wrong.

    Also your smoking argument makes no sense.
    03/13/2014 01:47 PMPosted by Leladin
    Except you can't "not fly" when the world is designed for you to fly. It forces you to fly or just makes you gimp yourself for no reason if you choose not to. If the world isn't designed to be freely flown through, then you don't have that problem.


    The only areas in which you are forced to fly are some parts of certain zones like Icecrown and Netherstorm, and most Cataclysm content; a slim minority of areas. The vast majority of the game is accessible solely by ground.

    Wait, wait wait.

    You are saying you want extra challenge in the game by not having flight. Then you complain about being more challenged?

    Hypocrite.

    You're making it sound like it's impossible to design content that won't be made trivial by the fact that you're at level cap or something. Why do you think that's what they're going to do? Like why do you think they're going to fundamentally change this aspect of the game (flight) but still design content the way the do now?


    Leveling content is made trivial by the fact you are at level cap by definition.

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