No Flying in WOD, terrible

General Discussion
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03/13/2014 01:52 PMPosted by Dawnstríke
03/13/2014 01:47 PMPosted by Killgraft
The Anti-flying camp are generally so not because of wanting to rustle your jimmies or for pure nostalgia or to make things take longer for the sake of it, it's because they can see how this could change the dynamic of the game in a way that is not necessarily completely negative.


Which still doesn't remedy the fact their arguments are based on an aggregate of myths and misattributions.

Also your smoking argument makes no sense.


It makes plenty of sense; people complaining about something which is entirely in their power to remedy.


The pro-flying argument is the same. No one knows how the zones, quests, dailies, and mats are truly being desiged, so to say it will become more of a grind-fest is pure speculation.

Also, I'm not complaining. I'm in the camp that doesnt care either way, but would prefer no flying. I'm not quitting if I dont get "my way", like a majority in the "pro-flying" camp seem to be threatening.
03/13/2014 01:54 PMPosted by Innardsdecay
03/13/2014 01:52 PMPosted by Kàtarn
I can't stress how much I'm looking forward to no flying in WoD. Gonna be fun.


Are you not flying in mop? you know you have that option right now, no need to wait for WoD!

Apparently the ability to fly is too tempting for some people, regardless of how they feel about it.
03/13/2014 01:50 PMPosted by Brunstal

Alex, I don't know where you've been or what game you've been playing, but MoP had no flying at ship. People didn't get flying until level 90. I suspect that if you look at your data, you'll see that most people bought flying just as soon as they @#$#%!@# could, and no, it wasn't because it was there. It's because flying is better than not flying.


Yes, and if Blizzard allowed instant transportation to anywhere in the world people would just do that and flying would be just for fun. What's your point? People will always take the easiest method over one that takes the most minimum amount of work.
03/13/2014 01:54 PMPosted by Torghen
03/13/2014 01:37 PMPosted by Ravenskar
What people don't seem to understand (or don't want to admit) is that Blizzard is disabling flying for a very specific reason.

They can spend way less time and resources developing zones where people can't fly.

The zones will very likely not be "finished" for flying until 6.1 or possibly, as Blizzard likely hopes, never.

It is the only possible reason they want to do this. None of the other stated reasons make the tiniest amount of sense and you don't make game changing decisions that piss off loads of current customers like this for philisophical reasons.

You do it if you don't want to spend the money then hope the PR holds up.


This is been my thinking as well. I've played this game for over 9 years now and the last several years has seen a steady set of changes such as the major stat simplification, the changes to healing, questing areas with no flight and gated content through dailies and they all talk about making the game more exciting for players but what really seems to be the driving force is making the game easier on the developers, reducing the resources needed for content development.

This emphasis on content consumption and resource management coming before great game design is reaching a tipping point. Making Warlords a "no-flight" expansion only makes sense in this context. Something must be terribly wrong with the game development if at this point we're not seeing a beta anywhere on the horizon, it looks like a late fall to winter release, and we're seeing hints thrown out about a "no flying" expansion. For the first time about any expansion, I'm more than a little concerned with what I'm seeing and reading.


THIS!! This is what i have been feeling since cataclysm. QFT and E. I've said to all my friends on multiple occassions that their attitude seems to be "if it's too hard, then get rid of it" for years!
03/13/2014 01:54 PMPosted by Innardsdecay
03/13/2014 01:52 PMPosted by Kàtarn
I can't stress how much I'm looking forward to no flying in WoD. Gonna be fun.


Are you not flying in mop? you know you have that option right now, no need to wait for WoD!

I doubt they'd crippled their progression in this game model merely because they're excited for the other game model.
Stahp. Stahhhhhhp.

You had to run from the crossroads to razorfen if you died because there was only one graveyard in the whole Barrens.
You had to wait 10 minutes to fly from Orgrimmar to Tanaris.
You had to wait for the stupid tauren to escort you to the murloc cave in wailing caverns.
You had to level your holy priest in vanilla with talent points in wand damage because you were out of mana from smiting mobs.
You had to collect valor for six weeks before wrathion would give you yet another hoop to jump through.
You had to farm up endless amounts of mats for resistance potions and gear. This was eventually nerfed to "seemingly" endless amounts, then "considerable amounts" and then "optional" amounts, and then it was removed, along with virtually all attunement requirements.
You had to sit out of range and wait for your raid leader to call for an ooc rez.
Sometimes you would pick a flower and then sit there for five minutes before the game would tell you that it was empty, then you'd run away, fall through the world and die, break you armor, release, and end up in Stonetalon Mountains.

Things change. Things get better. Go with it. Chill your bunions and trust Blizz.
03/13/2014 01:53 PMPosted by Killgraft
03/13/2014 01:51 PMPosted by Daiyu
I just want flying disabled in WOD so I can kill low level people on my rogue and stealth away when their level 100 friends or their main logs on. Is that really too much to ask? When they have flying mounts it's harder for me to kill them frequently due to the cooldown on goblin glider and the turtle shell won't work on 100s.


Nice Sarcasm, and to your point; How would a lack of flying make ganking more prevelent? If anything, I think it would make ganking harder due to not being able to get away in 2 seconds.


Actually I was being honest, I'm that type of person and I'm not ashamed of it since it's not a violation of the TOS in any way, shape or form. Also as a rogue I have an entire toolkit that allows me to get away from people.
03/13/2014 11:48 AMPosted by Nethaera
I just wanted to take a moment to reiterate that constructive feedback is great –we love it– and also to reemphasize that our goal is not to make it take longer to travel from zone to zone.

Flying mounts ruined a lot of the adventure and discovery in this game. I miss those little easter eggs the devs put in from time to time. Pop Culture references aside, seeing an orc child beeing chased by bees...or lions in the barrens stalking and pouncing zhevra npcs. Those are cool. And flying over it makes that work go unnoticed--most of the time.
Personally I love the idea of no flying at all. You can feel more immersed into the world if you have to travel on the ground. and you will see a lot more of the art they put a lot of work into making.
03/13/2014 01:56 PMPosted by Pretzles
03/13/2014 01:50 PMPosted by Brunstal

Alex, I don't know where you've been or what game you've been playing, but MoP had no flying at ship. People didn't get flying until level 90. I suspect that if you look at your data, you'll see that most people bought flying just as soon as they @#$#%!@# could, and no, it wasn't because it was there. It's because flying is better than not flying.


Yes, and if Blizzard allowed instant transportation to anywhere in the world people would just do that and flying would be just for fun. What's your point? People will always take the easiest method over one that takes the most minimum amount of work.

AKA the most convenient method. Neth said in his last post that they want us to get around in the most convenient way possible, which I think we can all agree is flying (unless they did give us teleportation to anywhere in the game regardless of class). Running somewhere on your ground mount and getting dazed and knocked off is not convenient.
03/13/2014 01:57 PMPosted by Daiyu

Actually I was being honest, I'm that type of person and I'm not ashamed of it since it's not a violation of the TOS in any way, shape or form. Also as a rogue I have an entire toolkit that allows me to get away from people.


Mmmk then. But still, someone running around on a mount at lvl 100 trying to gank people leveling up is going to have a much harder time then if they can swoop in, gank and camp, and then fly at the first sign of a formidable resistance.
03/13/2014 01:54 PMPosted by Dawnstríke
Please explain to me how "no flying at ship, we'll see how it goes" does not indicate considering the possibility of never introducing flight?


Probably because "there won't be flying in 6.0" has been the game plan since last November and people were STILL !@#$%ing about it hoping to get it changed, it's pretty easy to read this as "We are still not going to allow flying at launch, and we will monitor the situation based on feedback."

I realize that due to the shorthand nature of Twitter, the most idiotic and nonsensical form of mass communication in the history of mankind, it's easy to read unnecessarily short posts and take them in the most negative and paranoid way possible (as that's exactly what you're doing), but try to not be paranoid for 5 minutes and take a deep breath before you react as if this is literally the end of the game. Seriously, I'm worried about your mental health that you take 9 word tweet as proof that the fact that we'll never fly in the entire expansion is not only possible, but 99% for sure going to happen.
03/13/2014 01:55 PMPosted by Leladin
What are you even talking about? If the map is designed to be flown through then not flying is just choosing to gimp yourself because there's no reason not to skip over everything. There's no "durr challenge" crap or whatever nonsense you're on about. If the world isn't designed around you being able to fly through and over and see literally 0% of the things that populate it, you're not gimping yourself by not flying because nobody else is either. I don't even know why you're calling me a hypocrite or being overly hostile, you sound mad and I'd suggest taking a step back before you pop a blood vessel or something, you're making your side look like a bunch of whiny !@#$%^-s.


You think flying is too convenient, correct? Yet you say that not flying is choosing to gimp yourself (i.e. making it -less- convenient). So, with your own words, you've demonstrated that it is entirely without the power of a player to make their experience more challenging by not using flying mounts if they so choose.

As for the 'tourist' argument - I see and appreciate far more of the world by zipping around and viewing it from a variety of vantage points. More so, because I look for fun/nice looking spots to roleplay in.

You're saying the reason you want flying is because you want to go back and do leveling content once you hit 100? So you'd be fine with flying in the leveling zones but the "98-100" zones you're ok with no flying in, because you won't be "trivializing" those zones at the beginning like you do now where you hit 90 and have instant second raid-tier gear.


I am fine with no flying in zones like IoT because they are condensed and relatively efficient to get around in via ground mounts; however, the flying restriction should be removed after the content ceases the be current.
I just wanted to take a moment to reiterate that constructive feedback is great –we love it– and also to reemphasize that our goal is not to make it take longer to travel from zone to zone. We're not looking to make things inconvenient or a big time sink, we want to make sure that you're getting where you need to go in as convenient of a way as we possibly can. We said this much at BlizzCon already and that still holds true.

We will do our best to keep everyone as up to date on ongoing developments as we can.


If the bolded part is true why remove flying?

I don't have an issue with not being able to fly until max level even if that is still an immersion breaker since I can fly everywhere already I should not have to relearn it every 5-10 levels my issue is with the removal altogether be that until 6.1 or as Alex Afrasiabi says "plan is no flying at ship and see how it plays out.". Which implies you are considering removing flying altogether.

Even this idea of having a long quest chain to regain flying is absurd I already know how to fly! Why should I need to do a quest chain to be able to do something I already can do?
03/13/2014 01:56 PMPosted by Killgraft
03/13/2014 01:52 PMPosted by Dawnstríke
...

Which still doesn't remedy the fact their arguments are based on an aggregate of myths and misattributions.

...

It makes plenty of sense; people complaining about something which is entirely in their power to remedy.


I'm in the camp that doesnt care either way, but would prefer no flying.

Then you're in the anti flying camp. You're not in the grey area at all. If you were you would have left out that you prefer no flying because having a preference on either side of the wall means you support that side. It's just common sense man, we're not stupid and you are not stupid enough to believe that garbage you posted.
03/13/2014 01:59 PMPosted by Bloodshift
Personally I love the idea of no flying at all. You can feel more immersed into the world if you have to travel on the ground. and you will see a lot more of the art they put a lot of work into making.


How much time did you spend running around the Timeless Isle this week enjoying the artwork they made for you?

How much time did you spend running around the Isle of Thunder on your ground mount enjoying the artwork they made for you?

After the very first time you explore something, being grounded isn't likely to increase the time you spend looking at artwork. You can enjoy the artwork from the air just as much as you can from the ground, and maybe more because you can actually see further distances from the air. I flew around part of Pandaria just to look around after the destruction of the area Garrosh made just because I could fly. I didn't feel any less connected to the destruction just because I was flying. My 20th time in the zone, however, I just want to get to the raid dungeon and I could care less what the land outside that zone looked like.

Most people who want to fly are generally okay without having flying their first time leveling a character in a zone. The people who want to fly, however, are not okay being grounded at max level after they'd already finished all the exploring they cared about doing as they leveled. When you are already max level and the graphical content and quest content is not new anymore, the convenience of flying and being able to get to the level 100 content outweighs the "story" reasons for wanting to ground people in zones they already finished leveling in.
03/13/2014 01:10 PMPosted by Dljman
03/13/2014 12:50 PMPosted by Kuskbarbane
WOD's development seems to be increasingly catering to the two most vocal groups of fans, end-game raiders and PVP'ers.

Unfortunately I would wager that most players while they dabble in one or the other do not consider themselves to either. Seems math isn't the devs strong suit.


Yeah, that high level pvp gear......


more like no flying encourages WPVP somehow a la Timeless Isle of Thunder.
03/13/2014 01:59 PMPosted by Cyous
Flying mounts ruined a lot of the adventure and discovery in this game. I miss those little easter eggs the devs put in from time to time. Pop Culture references aside, seeing an orc child beeing chased by bees...or lions in the barrens stalking and pouncing zhevra npcs. Those are cool. And flying over it makes that work go unnoticed--most of the time.


No, absolute bull!@#$ (and also subjective bull%^-*). From my own experience, I have a lot more incentive to explore the game when I can fly around.
03/13/2014 01:58 PMPosted by Mopfeedback
Except you can't "not fly" when the world is designed for you to fly. It forces you to fly or just makes you gimp yourself for no reason if you choose not to. If the world isn't designed to be freely flown through, then you don't have that problem.


ok, where in mop can you not get to with out flying? I know none of my alts have flying.

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