Realm Best CM titles

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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04/02/2014 10:42 PMPosted by Aeolyn
Why bother contending over temporary titles? I'll get my golds and be done with it in WoD.


Essentially the biggest issue - there is little appeal in temporary.
04/02/2014 10:44 PMPosted by Fierydemise
04/02/2014 10:27 PMPosted by Cryoxene
I still have purified defender next to my name, no one has beaten my times; I EARNED this title.

No offense but I think you are a decent illustration of the problem with realm best titles. Looking at US rankings your time isn't particularly special, WoWProgress has it recorded as the 433rd best Shado-Pan Monastery run in the US. Obviously that number in inflated by multiple runs from other groups but there are multiple realms with several groups faster than your time. Why should you get a title for simply being on a lower population realm?


The same reason people used to still get PvP titles even though they competed on dead battlegroups?
04/02/2014 10:44 PMPosted by Amity
04/02/2014 10:42 PMPosted by Aeolyn
Why bother contending over temporary titles? I'll get my golds and be done with it in WoD.


Essentially the biggest issue - there is little appeal in temporary.


And it sucks. CMs are already a niche thing. Why further cut the appeal down? Or are CMs supposed to be all about getting gold and then selling gold carries to other? That's the only point to achieving CM mastery now, isn't it?

Actually, why even have the leaderboards for the next CM "season"? I don't care what my time is relative to the rest of the server now.

Whats the point of a time attack mode when getting the high score achieves nothing?
Is there any reason why they can't be awarded like <Season> Gladiator titles, Best CM teams for a "season"(Expac), Best PvPers for a season. Why would you choose one but not the other when they are essentially the same?
As someone who hasn't even done CMs, I'd like to think that I'm fairly objective in this.

As someone who raids, if Blizzard were to take away my title for killing X boss on Heroic, I'd be pissed.

If I were someone who PVP'd, and my Gladiator was only temporary, I'd quit trying to reach Gladiator.

This concept of granting a reward, then removing it is a VERY large mistake, and will lead down a slippery slope.
04/02/2014 10:13 PMPosted by Watcher
We considered an alternate option of letting all players who have the Feat of Strength for ever holding a best time, however briefly, permanently keep the title associated with that dungeon. The major downside there, as I noted on Twitter, would be the precedent it would have set going into the next Challenge Mode season. Should the first group on a server to get a Gold Medal in the Shadowmoon Burial Grounds (one of our upcoming dungeons), the first week of the expansion, earn a permanent title, while another group a few weeks later that clears the dungeon four minutes faster (but not a new record at the time) does not get that same reward because they waited too long to stake their claim? We also do not want to encourage groups to seek out less competitive servers just to grab best times and thus permanent titles.

The thing is I'm not sure a precedent need be set by any decision ultimately made this patch.

I think most of the serious CM runners here (hopefully you all agree) are aware that the titles this expansion were more of a last-minute inclusion, and that we hardly expect titles in Warlords to be handled the same way at all as in Mists. A lot of the great ideas for CM's, such as region-based ranking, "CM seasons" within an expansion (possibly coinciding with PvP seasons), and multiple tiers of rank rewards, are understandably difficult/impossible to implement now for these CM's.

That said it is disappointing that there is little incentive aside from an initial Feat to push times now, and it's also disappointing that the titles which are quite nice will be going away for good. I agree that snapshotting the #1 Realm Holder is a bad idea due to reasons mentioned in your initial post.

I also agree that, unlike many (including some of my friends), I do NOT support making the title simply bound to the Feat of Strength, for a multitude of reasons.

---

Personally, my ideal solution would be to bite the bullet for this season alone, and to put a (somewhat arbitrary) Platinum time, released ~1 month before expansion's end, based on top times from Challenge Modes that are region-based (taking into account all players, not just multiple ranks put up by the same core group), while still generous enough to allow for most reasonable group compositions (5 druids possibly not being among this list) to achieve it.

I don't think this is the best way to do Warlords CM's and I agree a precedent on the Platinum medal would be bad, but there need not be anything set. Most of us I think will understand that the Warlords system can and will be different, and are fully optimistic it will be better, but we would love the ability to see these titles be prestigious, while still reasonably and fairly attainable for extremely dedicated groups in Warlords.

04/02/2014 10:51 PMPosted by Teye
If I were someone who PVP'd, and my Gladiator/Challenger/Etc title was only temporary, I'd quit PVPing.

That said, Teye, Gladiator, Duelist, Rival and Challenger ARE temporary. The only title that is not temporary is the R1 title, i.e. Grievous Gladiator, etc.

These titles are more akin to Rank 1 titles, for MOP, not just "Gladiator." I would imagine with Warlords, we could have Region-based Ranking with Top 1% of Gold Times (or similar) getting a permanent title, and tiers of ranks per season (assuming multiple seasons in same expansion) with a mix of temporary and permanent rewards per tier.
Looking at US rankings your time isn't particularly special, WoWProgress has it recorded as the 433rd best Shado-Pan Monastery run in the US.


You're right; my time isn't special in anything more than that I earned with players on my itty-bitty horde side on an alliance dominated double realm. But I still earned it. In fact, our group planned on returning if only to secure the ACTUAL top spot that's occupied by offservers. They didn't leave the realm, they were never here. The leaderboard is terribly designed for showing that.

I play on this realm. It's my home realm. I didn't transfer here. This is where I began in vanilla and this is where I stay despite how small it has become. Someone could easily transfer over here and take all of the titles, and I still wouldn't care half as much as this change being implemented now. I refuse to be punished for how other people game the system.

I'd be plenty happy if multiple people on each realm got the titles, which is better than no one having them.
04/02/2014 10:53 PMPosted by Cryoxene
You're right; my time isn't special in anything more than that I earned with players on my itty-bitty horde side on an alliance dominated double realm. But I still earned it.

And now you have zero incentive to go make that "not particularly special time" better :)

04/02/2014 10:51 PMPosted by Teye
If I were someone who PVP'd, and my Gladiator/Challenger/Etc title was only temporary, I'd quit PVPing.

The only title that is not temporary is the R1 titles, i.e. Grievous Gladiator, etc.


This was my point, I just worded it poorly.
04/02/2014 10:24 PMPosted by Lights
we keep nothing from it.


You keep the transmog (that will be unobtainable), get 3 free mounts (along with the one you chose when you earned the transmog, which are also unobtainable) and a different title (The Undaunted) that's ALSO unobtainable once WoD hits.

I hardly qualify that as "nothing".
So what is the logic behind r1 glads being able to keep their titles forever? Do you feel they work harder than CM people or are those being taken away too?

As many others have said, it is a 100% waste of time to fight for realm firsts if all we get is a FoS. No one gives two craps about a FoS. Titles/mounts/gear/pets(ie things people can actually see) are the important things. It isn't important so we can show things off, its important so we can see our hard work and effort all the time we want to. Sure, I guess I can stare at the FoS achievement list, but that is pretty lame.
You keep the transmog (that will be unobtainable), get 3 free mounts (along with the one you chose when you earned the transmog, which are also unobtainable) and a different title (The Undaunted) that's ALSO unobtainable once WoD hits.

I hardly qualify that as "nothing".


Wrong; that is nothing. Everyone who did CMs to gold will get those.

The vast majority of people who did CMs to gold didn't put in a fraction of the time most people in this thread have.
04/02/2014 10:44 PMPosted by Fierydemise
If Blizzard were to keep the titles in a realm based system makes zero sense. A top 0.5% (or some similar appropriate number) as Nezyo suggested with some logic to handle multiple runs would be far fairer.

A system such as top 1% of Gold Completions (or whatever number makes sense) would be excellent, with the % based ONLY on a player's personal best time.

It might be understandably impossible and even confusing to implement now, however. Hence my suggestion that this season, and this one alone, use a fixed "Platinum" time.
04/02/2014 11:01 PMPosted by Spektro
04/02/2014 10:24 PMPosted by Lights
we keep nothing from it.


You keep the transmog (that will be unobtainable), get 3 free mounts (along with the one you chose when you earned the transmog, which are also unobtainable) and a different title (The Undaunted) that's ALSO unobtainable once WoD hits.

I hardly qualify that as "nothing".


You thick m8? The argument is that past gold there is no point fighting over rank 1 times because they don't give you anything, now you can go in there, get your fold time and be done for it, no fighting over rank 1 times for titles because they're only temporary.

The argument is about R1 times, not getting gold.
Worst idea ever!
04/02/2014 11:01 PMPosted by Spektro
04/02/2014 10:24 PMPosted by Lights
we keep nothing from it.


You keep the transmog (that will be unobtainable), get 3 free mounts (along with the one you chose when you earned the transmog, which are also unobtainable) and a different title (The Undaunted) that's ALSO unobtainable once WoD hits.

I hardly qualify that as "nothing".


We keep nothing from our hard work for realm bests. If it was just golds, I'd have never leveled, geared and learned this alt tank. I'd have never spent hundreds of hours in CMs practicing and learning things. I'd have never joined all those LFR/normal pugs in hopes to get my few BiS CM items.

A TON of time was wasted if we don't get what we were working for. Just think if they said that the gold armor and silver mounts were all being taken away. How would you feel about it? You'd be annoyed that you worked for something and they took it from you. Now imagine if it took you hundreds of game hours to get those things.
Jesus just give anyone who had the fastest time feat of strenght have the title. Its only fair.
The realm-best titles were added with little fanfare in Patch 5.4. It's possible that they were a flawed idea in their conception...


That said, another point! I don't think the idea of competing on leader-boards is flawed at all, even if the original implementation wasn't perfect. And I think almost all of us will agree with that here!
04/02/2014 10:13 PMPosted by Watcher
Thanks for all the feedback, and I understand that while much of the news was positive, most of the people who have worked tremendously hard for the realm-best titles are justifiably upset that they will not be permanent.


Are you sure you cheked the same news thread we're discussing? "Much of the news was positive?"

Looking ahead to Warlords, we were left with the open question of how to handle the realm-best titles once the current set of Challenge Modes ceased to be available. By default, if we kept the titles as-is, the final players who held them on the day the servers went down for patch 6.0 maintenance would have kept them. Unless they ever transferred servers. Or unless their realm got connected with another realm with faster record times. This is because by definition, the titles are tied to a specific realm, and were always meant to be. Keeping the titles around with that level of inconsistency and uncertainty was not an acceptable outcome in our eyes.


Why do realms get connected in the first place? To re-populate dead servers, to bring life back to an empty capital city or area, to interact, to share with more people. To COMPETE against people.

Players have been raging on the forums about their farms spots being crowded, their rares always dead, their herbs or ores always being mined by players from another realm who got merged with theirs. And they had to just accept it. It feels like I'm insulting my fellow challenge mode elitists here comparing us to mindless gold/rare/ore farming, but why do you suddendly feel "forgiving" towards the people with terrible realm records at the time of the merge?

If merging enhances competition, you should let all of the aspects of competition take part of it, not only the server's economy or bosses first kill and then just forgiving the cm record times.

Should the first group on a server to get a Gold Medal in the Shadowmoon Burial Grounds (one of our upcoming dungeons), the first week of the expansion, earn a permanent title, while another group a few weeks later that clears the dungeon four minutes faster (but not a new record at the time) does not get that same reward because they waited too long to stake their claim?.


What is this? How is this related to a server's fastest clear? I'm confused.

As far as I know, the game has a Realm First! Challenger Conqueror: Gold achievement, wich is more accurate of what you're talking about.

Since when do you get realm records by clearing them first?

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