This Should Be Yrel

Story Forum
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04/06/2014 07:10 PMPosted by Renrashin
Gender and that they believe in a higher power (God/Naaru)


That's a pretty shallow likening between Yrel and a historic figure...
but her being "frightened" by Maraad's emotions are really.... wack.


oh come on, now

im all for the empowerment of women and strong, interesting, female characters but this is what you have a problem with?

not the 'defiled and broken' bit, not the fact that sexual assault is becoming a consistent theme of the orcs and blizz is ham-handedly using it as a cheesy, bad way to show grittiness

the single throwaway line because maraad is being angsty and any reasonable person would have been nervous about the unstable guy waving his hammer around ranting about how he wants to charge headfirst into a 10,000 strong legion

smh so very, very much

04/06/2014 06:46 PMPosted by Snuffit
There are just some figures you shouldn't evoke if you don't want backlash if you butcher the character you say is based on them. End of story.


you forget that the devs are not tumblr SJWs with access to a variety of opinions and a desire for inclusivity but a bunch of 40 year old comic nerds who consider wolverine the pinnacle of character development and thrall a god given gift to gamers
04/06/2014 07:04 PMPosted by Seebach
What I want to know is what is Yrel going to share with Joan of Arc that they can be likened to.


Probably a female warrior/tactician that rose to prominence in the military with virtually no military training, in an attempt to kick an invading force out of her country. I don't think they were creating more of a connection than that.
04/06/2014 07:12 PMPosted by Healstime
Probably a female warrior/tactician that rose to prominence in the military with virtually no military training, in an attempt to kick an invading force out of her country. I don't think they were creating more of a connection than that.


Yeah, I don't think she was meant to be a literal Joan of Arc. Otherwise, she'd die. And Light knows, all Blizzard needs are more reasons for people to call them sexist.
I think people took the Joan of Arc comparison way too literately. All it means is that she's an emergent female military leader, that's it. Nothing less and nothing more.

She isn't going to be leading some sort of all-female amazon brigade (something Joan of Arc never did anyways), nor do I think she should. If she is to become a leader, then she's going to have to command men in combat.

Finally it's also important to recognize that she is an emergent leader, not someone introduced as a leader. Gorgrond isn't necessarily the end of her story in 6.0, and the assault on the Iron Horde naval base may only be her first real command. We might see her as a more active military leader in later zones, and not fully fall into her leadership position until a patch or two into the expansion.

04/06/2014 07:15 PMPosted by Madelynn
Yeah, I don't think she was meant to be a literal Joan of Arc. Otherwise, she'd die. And Light knows, all Blizzard needs are more reasons for people to call them sexist.


Not only would she die if she was a literal Joan of Arc, but she'd be executed by pro-Iron Horde Draenei.
04/06/2014 07:12 PMPosted by Zaoda
im all for the empowerment of women and strong, interesting, female characters but this is what you have a problem with?

not the 'defiled and broken' bit, not the fact that sexual assault is becoming a consistent theme of the orcs and blizz is ham-handedly using it as a cheesy, bad way to show grittiness

the single throwaway line because maraad is being angsty and any reasonable person would have been nervous about the unstable guy waving his hammer around ranting about how he wants to charge headfirst into a 10,000 strong legion


...Did you READ my post? My first one?

I was just responding to that small bit in that response.

Also I am discussing this on multiple forums and also I am ticked off about that.

But, you know, put words into my mouth. Ok.

And it's because it's a trope that women do not experience such 'fierce' emotions, or if they do they go completely off the wall. One that is damaging all around.

Seriously if you want a conversation try less snarky and more asky.

04/06/2014 07:16 PMPosted by Falrinn
She isn't going to be leading some sort of all-female amazon brigade (something Joan of Arc never did anyways), nor do I think she should. If she is to become a leader, then she's going to have to command men in combat.


Once again- I did not say that. However, in the world of warcraft where women are supposedly part of the military, to put Yrel with a ALL MALE team is just stupid. Especially, as I mentioned, Joan of Arc's original supporters were mostly women even if they supporterd from off the field.

And the truth of the matter is that they butchered the chance at this character to be a incredibly nuanced character who invoked the best things about Joan of Arc. To say "Oh they were probably just thinking of the bare bones" is not enough, ESPECIALLY as they invoked her as being a 'strong female character' in response to complaints about the lack of and when they were under criticism for calling WoD a Boys Trip.

If they invoke her as a example of a strong female character in WoD, they sure as better have been prepared for the backlash when they made her fall into various misogenystic tropes. Including having a alternate timeline version fridged for manpain of Maraad, having this one having her ending choices shaped and defined by two men rather than her own ideals, and etc.

You can't go "This character is like Joan of Arc AND is a strong female character in this expansion!" then fail on both ends.
04/06/2014 07:04 PMPosted by Seebach
04/06/2014 06:57 PMPosted by Strigine
Sad that Blizz ever even pretended to draw a comparison to Joan of Arc.


See, this is a better opinion.

What I want to know is what is Yrel going to share with Joan of Arc that they can be likened to.


I was agreeing with the OP. It's the same opinion.
04/06/2014 07:15 PMPosted by Madelynn
Yeah, I don't think she was meant to be a literal Joan of Arc. Otherwise, she'd die. And Light knows, all Blizzard needs are more reasons for people to call them sexist.


Yeah, it would be crazy if she was suppose to literally be Joan of Arc.

04/06/2014 07:25 PMPosted by Snuffit
And it's because it's a trope that women do not experience such 'fierce' emotions, or if they do they go completely off the wall. One that is damaging all around.


The difference between her an Maarad is she is still a student of the light and following the teachings of Velen. Maarad has lived through the genocide and watched everyone he loved die and over the years that has greatly effected him, and probably the years of "why did this happen" or "what ifs" have weighed heavily on his mind. To have to then relive it again it's going to make him extremely emotional.

I don't think the problem is that Yrel isn't showing the same level of anger as Maarad, because it just really isn't part of her character as of now, despite being captured the thing she wanted to do was return to her training as a priest (in Shadowmoon). I don't think she needs to have the same anger as Maarad to be a good character, it can be the juxtaposition of these two, one is focused on vengeance another is focused on protecting her people.

It is shown that she is willing to fight the orc, she does so in Shadowmoon and then takes command away from Maarad in Gorgond and leads the assault on the horde naval base. She is willing to fight, but it seems like she sees the necessity of keeping a clear head in battle, not because she doesn't have strong emotion, but because she's not letting those emotions endanger the lives of the people she is commanding. That's not a bad character that's an intelligent and caring one, she was training to be a priest to help people, and now she needs to protect them a different way, through fighting her enemies.

I think people jumping to conclusions about her character too much, and writing her off just because there is a love interest between her and Maarad. As long as they continue to develop her independently, I don't see the problem with her having a relationship in the story as well.
04/06/2014 07:12 PMPosted by Zaoda
the single throwaway line because maraad is being angsty and any reasonable person would have been nervous about the unstable guy waving his hammer around ranting about how he wants to charge headfirst into a 10,000 strong legion

smh so very, very much


Actually this fits very well with Joan of Arc. Didnt Joan have that friend and one sided (maybe?) love interest who turned out to be evil later on named Gilles de Rais. Perhaps Maraad turns evil later on
04/06/2014 07:25 PMPosted by Snuffit
Once again- I did not say that. However, in the world of warcraft where women are supposedly part of the military, to put Yrel with a ALL MALE team is just stupid. Especially, as I mentioned, Joan of Arc's original supporters were mostly women even if they supporterd from off the field.


The team in question has a grand total of 4 named characters (5 including the player character) on a team that size, you are going to end up with lopsided gender ratios sometimes. Plus the team wasn't even assembled by her, it's Maraad and two Dark Iron Dwarves whose primary mission is to deal with the Iron Horde threat in Gorgrond.

Overall, I feel you are treating the Gorgrond dialogue as the beginning, middle, and end of her character arc which isn't the case. We don't know precisely where Gorgrond falls in terms of questing, but I'd be willing to bet it's not the end.

To speculate, I'd say it's just the first time she takes command of a battle. We know there's a subzone in Nagrand named for her (Yrel's Watch), which would indicate that she is more officially commanding armies. Armies that won't be all male in all likelihood.
04/06/2014 07:50 PMPosted by Falrinn
Overall, I feel you are treating the Gorgrond dialogue as the beginning, middle, and end of her character arc which isn't the case. We don't know precisely where Gorgrond falls in terms of questing, but I'd be willing to bet it's not the end.


That's a good point Falrinn; I also find a lot of the problem to be we are discussing dialog that is lacking its setting. If we receive it in game text bubbles; sadly it will also be lacking tone, intensity, any nonverbal communication to help define it.

But I'll be the first to admit a lot of the dialog looks to be written by some one in the PJs eating lucky charms while finishing his newest edition of Justice League comic book.

I mean just look at this junk.

Maraad: Are any of you more holy than me? I am the LEADER of this expedition, and I will not be questioned any further!

They might as well have wrote it like this.

Maraad: Are any of you more cliche than me? I'm the leader, I DO WHAT I WANT!

Hmm.... looking at the developer notes maybe they did.
04/06/2014 07:26 PMPosted by Strigine
04/06/2014 07:04 PMPosted by Seebach
...

See, this is a better opinion.

What I want to know is what is Yrel going to share with Joan of Arc that they can be likened to.


I was agreeing with the OP. It's the same opinion.


I'm aware.

However, you also used different words that made it infinitely better in opinion than the op.

Surprising what a few words can do to change the meaning of what you are agreeing on.

The OP makes reference that Yrel was supposed to be Joan of Arc, not Joan of Arc-Like.

That is the difference.
Every time I hear the words "arm candy", I want to take a bite out of my arm. I mean, it can't taste that good... and I'm not that desperate.

On a more serious note, I agree with Lena and Seebach.
I kind of expect her to be sort of like Nazgrim obviously without becoming a raid boss of course. From the 1st time we see her she is just a basic priest sort of like how Nazgrim was a basic Orc when he was 1st introduced but over time like Nazgrim she will become an increasingly more important character. A character that you grow with as you experience more content.
Apparently it was datamined that Yrel might have been raped

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/12427753010?page=1
04/06/2014 10:23 PMPosted by Renrashin
Apparently it was datamined that Yrel might have been raped

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/12427753010?page=1


She wasn't:

Maraad: And now that these hordes have taken, broken, and defiled my angel Yrel, I intend to unleash my own...
Yrel: Maraad, my love. That's enough.
Maraad: Yrel...
Yrel: You have been through too much, Maraad. Your thirst for vengeance will only lead to our death.
Yrel: Yes, I was taken, but I am not defiled, and I am not broken.
Yrel: Rest now. I will lead our attack on the Naval Base.
Yrel sounds like something of a badass and the pants-wearer. Maraad is ranting and she tells him to sit down while she handles !@#$.

He's all "Yes dear, Sorry Dear."
04/06/2014 10:23 PMPosted by Renrashin
Apparently it was datamined that Yrel might have been raped

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/12427753010?page=1

She was not. She says just a few lines from that that she's fine and Maraad is overreacting.
Hey, wait, did they remove "raped" from the forum blacklist? Awesome, now we can actually talk about it without breaking forum rules.

I'm not really a fan of @@%!%*@@ as backstory or as a story element. Not because it doesn't happen - it does, at least in our world, and all too frequently - but because it's very rarely handled well.

When you think about it, this is really kind of a tragic setup. Apparently AU Yrel and MU Maraad are getting together, with AU Yrel having lost Maraad and MU Maraad having lost Yrel. We don't know the details of that their former relationships, and for all we know MU Yrel was captured, abused, and murdered. Yrel might simply be reminding Maraad that she is alive, relatively unharmed, and here.

Edit: We can use "raped" but not the present tense? Blizzard, I don't understand you sometimes...

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