Blizz please, PLEASE re-think Goblin Shaman

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12/06/2010 2:10 PMPosted by Barglin
And lets not forget that goblin shamans are the reason behind the current class imbalances between the alliance and the horde.
Someone at blizz must REALLY want to play a goblin shaman


Gotta admit, green midgets from throwing lightning around sound pretty awesome. I'm personally amazed they didn't put in a Worgen Shaman.
Goblin Shamans make perfect sense to me. Now, I can't prove this, but its really hard not to assume that Warcraft was loosely created from idea's from Lord of the Rings, and in turn, Dungeon's and Dragon's (really, really not hard to figure that out ;P) and in D&D Goblins/Orcs can have shamans, and in fact the shamans are tribal leaders and generally the Chief's of the tribes of Goblins. That of course does not mean the Goblins of WoW are the same, but they really do fit shamans as a class purely from the fact that they're Goblins. Not to mention this is Blizzard's game and they can manipulate the Lore as they see fit whether the Lore for a new class/race combo does or does not entirely fit. Just stop complaining over it and enjoy the fact that you can be a goblin shaman. Its a game, have fun, complain less. WoW's the best game ever, but nothing is perfect. Yay for WoW :D
can we, as laura shigihara suggested, have blood elf druids instead? =P
12/06/2010 11:50 AMPosted by Raimeus
  • Dwarf Mage/Warlock - The (less insane) Dark Irons have moved into Ironforge and have started to teach their dark/taboo arts to other Dwarves. It's almost their way of paying rent to the Bronzebeard clan.


  • Don't even try to convince people of that.
    12/06/2010 11:50 AMPosted by Raimeus
    # Dwarf Shaman - This took some getting used to, but it's at least more believable than Goblin Shaman. The Dwarves, when you look back at their origin, are closer to the earth than any other Shaman race. Combine that with the Dwarves are generally a peaceful race. They're certainly not trying to take advantage of the elements for their own personally gain...


    Uh, really? You do know that dwarves pretty much strip mine anything they can, right? They're nearly as bad as goblins are when it comes to environmental issues.
    They should have made gnome paladins. Not because it makes any more sense than priests... but because if you are throwing reason out the window already, pally would have been cooler.
    As an RPer who was initially skeptical of Goblin Shaman, and someone who is now going to roll with, I'll explain how I will play my Shaman and my justifications for it:

    As the Cataclysm happens, shaman become very important people; they're essentially the glue holding the world together. Goblins experience the rage of the elements first hand. This sort of power was just too good to pass up, and so they latch onto it, and learn to exploit it. Exploit being a keyword here: Just because Thrall reveres the elements doesn't mean that all shaman necessarily have to.

    People have already brought up the Taunka, and the Goblins seem to follow the same pattern. If you go to the Goblin Slums in Orgrimmar, you can go find the Goblin Shaman trainer standing by the pond. Her title is Elemental Engineer, and she is running an oil pump, forcing a bunch of little earth elementals to put oil into barrels and drag them ashore. She is not being nice to them at all, and spends some time yelling at them to pick up the pace.

    You may believe that elementals are too strong to be enslaved, but the lore doesn't support that viewpoint. Obviously they're not running around with enslaved Elemental Lords, but who is to say that minor elementals are more powerful than, say, Warlock demons? Goblins found a system to control elementals, both for power and cheap labor. Even the Elemental Lords were enslaved by Old Gods, after all.

    Now, on to another point: Goblins are seriously getting a bad rap from people that isn't necessarily true. Yes, Goblins value money and profit, but that isn't their only motivation (at least for most Goblins). The Warcraft RPG actually pointed out that Goblins are fiercely loyal to their friends and customers:

    Goblins are not purely mercenary. They are known to form strong bonds with individuals of other races. Their small forms and odd behavior make other races — elves in particular — ill at ease, but goblins do not seem to care much for the impression they make. They judge by deeds, befriending those who treat them as friends and standing apart from those who would offer them abuse.


    Keep in mind that much of their culture comes out of them having been enslaved by the trolls. They do value money, as they see money as equivalent to power, and power as a way to keep from being exploited. They also value innovation, not just in terms of engineering, but in anything that interests them. Much like the Gnomes, they are often pigeon holed as engineers, but both can become obsessed over just about anything (Breeani excels at pet-keeping, and there is a Gnome in WotLK that has rejected technology and is essentially a hunter). That is why you see so many Goblin chefs, it is something where they can demonstrate a lot of creativity in, and make innovative new recipes, which in turn gets them profit.

    Goblins are not as one dimensional as they initially seem, nor are shaman. If Blizzard's lore explanations don't fit for you character, follow a different path; just keep it reasonable.
    Well you need to realize that a shaman "calls" to the elements and "Asks" for assistance. they do not have to do what they've been asked, and sometimes don't.

    Iskra, Gromms Shaman adviser tells a story to thrall about this happening to him. Ironically enough it was covered in the book you just read "Rise of the horde"
    It doesn't help when you have goblin outposts like those in Stonetalon where its just a giant waste dump, and all they care about is wiping out the nearby wildlife because they were too stubborn and set up shop just south of a Wyvern colony.

    I don't think I've ran across a quest that has made me more annoyed, especially as Horde.
    The Goblin Shaman is a little ridiculous but that's exactly why I want to play one! I'm just picturing a goblin shaman busily trying to explain why that strip mine is GOOD for rock elementals.
    12/06/2010 2:52 PMPosted by Lytis
    Well you need to realize that a shaman "calls" to the elements and "Asks" for assistance. they do not have to do what they've been asked, and sometimes don't.

    Indeed they don't have to, which is why in actual, real world traditional shamanism, the shaman often bargains with the spirits to get them to do what he wants.

    Ironically enough (given fan reactions), of all the races of lore, goblin shamans are the most realistic.
    12/06/2010 2:43 PMPosted by Antiflag
    12/06/2010 11:50 AMPosted by Raimeus
    # Dwarf Shaman - This took some getting used to, but it's at least more believable than Goblin Shaman. The Dwarves, when you look back at their origin, are closer to the earth than any other Shaman race. Combine that with the Dwarves are generally a peaceful race. They're certainly not trying to take advantage of the elements for their own personally gain...


    Uh, really? You do know that dwarves pretty much strip mine anything they can, right? They're nearly as bad as goblins are when it comes to environmental issues.

    You do know that dwarf shamans have been in game since before WoW right? The wildhammer clan != bronzebeard clan
    http://www.wowpedia.org/Goblin

    Go down to Early history, and you'll see
    12/06/2010 1:30 PMPosted by Cud
    12/06/2010 1:28 PMPosted by Anthem
    [quote="12532538828"]

    It's also important to note that the elements are not 'good' or 'bad' but instead strive, as elements do, for balance.


    So when Ragnaros ate the other elemental, he was really just doing a little balancing act? Got it.


    Hungry takes no sides[/quote]

    False Hungry takes all the sides!
    Did you catch the 12th episode of BlizzCast? There was a bit in there with either Metzen or Didier saying that they can pretty much throw anything into WoW at this point and make it fit.

    Edit: here it is.
    http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/community/blizzcast/archive/episode12.html?rhtml=y

    Scroll down to the [34:27] mark.
    Im just trying to figure out how they can justify goblin shamans but they cant justify either gnomish shamans or paladins, or hell even hunters.

    Gnomes need more class options.
    12/06/2010 11:56 AMPosted by Zylf
    Even the Elements are subject to being greedy. The goblins excel at exploiting this weakness. Plus how could they not be a class that likes to blow things up with elemental power?
    Time is money. And both can get you power.


    Even the elements are subject to being greedy? Do you realize how little sense that makes? Elements are basic, I do not really think that they are capable of being greedy. The only thing that they really want is to not be messed with, and to do their normal....elemental...type things. Saying an elemental is greedy is like saying an animal can be greedy.
    If you read a lot of the lore, you'll start to realize that each race has it's own customs. Specifically in 'The Shattering' Christie Golden explores this concept quite a bit. The major rifts between the Horde and Alliance are propagated because they do not understand (and sometimes don't respect) each other's customs. (Sound familiar? jk)

    Anyway, it seems the Goblins have an unprecedented love/respect for money. We (as humans) cannot understand this undying love. An element, however, does not distinguish between right and wrongs of specific races. If a goblin who is driven to make a profit based on his core beliefs and values asks the elements for a helping hand, I sincerely doubt the element would not respect the goblin's true wishes. Just as the elements don't care who they kill on the battlefield as long as the caster asks with some sort of reverence.

    But then the problem is with the word "exploitation." Exploitation is generally interpreted as selfish utilization of something. But again, I don't think elements distinguish between selfishness. You could argue in circles saying that Thrall was selfish in wanting to free his people from the humans, because at least with his people in captivity there was peace. Now there is not. What is really the greater good?

    Whats happening is that your applying your own beliefs about money onto the elements. I think there is a word for that: Elementopomorphism. :P

    Personally, I see it a fitting explanation that shows how truly basic the elements are, and gives you some insight into the customs and values of the goblin race.

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