To Fly or Not to Fly 4

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Our topic was just capped again.

To those that would like to catch up, the original topic can be found here

To Fly or Not to Fly 1 -
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/12673658420?page=1

To Fly or Not to Fly 2 -
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/12673849155?page=1

To Fly or Not to Fly 3 -
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/12673549684?page=1

Please let's try to keep the conversation going in a civil way!

A source some might not have seen before

Kris Zierhut, Lead Class Designer for WoD speaking at PAX East; transcript at http://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/pax-east-2014-warlords-of-draenor-blizzplanet-interviews-kris-zierhut-steve-burke
Killgraft, nuuuuuuuu.
Thanks, Killgraft. I had composed a reply that didn't get posted before the cap so I'll put it here. :)

05/14/2014 12:08 PMPosted by Magtagg
05/14/2014 11:49 AMPosted by Sufia
They adamantly state flight killed WPvP (I disagree but that's beside the point) in such a way as to indicate this is their primary means of enjoyment in WoW.


You claim that WPvPers are up in arms about flying killing their enjoyment of the game, "in such a way as to indicate this is their primary means of enjoyment in WoW."

The "pro-fliers" adamantly state that lack of flying will kill WoW, in such a way as to indicate this is their primary means of enjoyment in WoW.

I don't believe I've ever been dismissive of either opinion (neither of which I share), as you accused. In fact, in part 3 of this discussion, I talked about how we all have balance sheets that account for all the assets and liabilities we perceive in this game. As I said then, there is no right or wrong accounting. The quote of mine you chose above is somewhat out of context in that the point I was trying to make is why anyone continues to play a game which, in their own opinion, was ruined.

Edit:
To be clear, this could equally apply to either side of the debate.
On of my last points, I will repost here:

05/14/2014 11:11 AMPosted by Sixenn
The thing I find interesting about the no-fly argument is the fact that no one is making you fly now. You can, if you chose, walk, ride, or roll anywhere you want to. WoD having flight won't effect you, if you chose not to use it. So why are you worked up over it? Is it's just !@#$%ing to be contrary, or drooling fanboy loyalty?


A thing I personally find a little flawed about the "choice" thing here is that, to me, a choice involves two separate options that have their own negatives and positives. In this sense, the choice involves one option that is empirically better than the other isn't really a choice; there are no downsides to flying compared to ground travel.

A true choice here would have flying have it's own downsides; maybe a cool-down, a longer cast time, a fatigue system, or a slow ramp up of speed over a time, or something so when you have to chose between getting between from point A to point B, that one has to have it's own benefit over the other in certain situations. There is no reason to ever put a ground mount on a hotkey.

If you finish a quest and the rewards lets you choose between 100 gold, or 10,000 gold, that isnt really a true choice, because one is better than the other in every conceivable situation.

Also, @Narcissia
Sorry it is impossible to have a rational debate with a troll. Thats ok though he is now on my do not call list.


The original post that Shadowbolt pointed out was not referring to anyone in particular, but was directed at the other side as a whole.

Again, needless insults will be ignored by the conversation and will not help your point in any way; I suggest keeping it civil and respectful.
I like flying.

It really is that simple
It would really be so much easier if blizzard would combine the last 3 To fly or not to fly threads, take the post cap off and sticky it to the front page.
05/14/2014 12:27 PMPosted by Zakath
It would really be so much easier if blizzard would combine the last 3 To fly or not to fly threads, take the post cap off and sticky it to the front page.


It would be, but sadly they arent, so it's up to the community. Charisch's system seems to be working the best at keeping the conversation on point and direct, so I'm continuing that and basically copy/pasting her format here.
05/14/2014 12:27 PMPosted by Zakath
It would really be so much easier if blizzard would combine the last 3 To fly or not to fly threads, take the post cap off and sticky it to the front page.

No please no.
I simply hope they re-instate flying for all future content, preferably by lvl cap but by a patch is also acceptable.

I enjoy having the choice to use my darnassus kitty when farming leather goods

I enjoy using my mechanostrider when farming mobs for greens or the periodic blue to DE for mats

I enjoy using my chopper if running a low lvl to and thru a dungeon since it does seat 2

I love using my flying cloud if farming ore

I love using flight form if farming herbs

I enjoy questing and running amok on my armor covered feet

I very much appreciate being able to summon that flying cloud when I have to go afk and know I may auto log since no flying mount means I either have to hearth, make my way to a safe zone or risk logging in as a corpse

Up until now and unsure as to down the road one of the things about wow that has kept me here for 9 years is the CHOICES I have, to begin removing those choices is to begin removing exactly why I have played for so long.
Don't feel like responding to the posts on the other thread, so I'll just say this:
I can't wait for WoD to be released, as usual the playerbase will grow accustomed to the change they've been panicking over when it was announced and we'll move on to more realistic problems in the expansion. It's happened in the past and will happen in future expansions.
Thanks Killgraft,
I doubt anything said on these forums will sway Blizz one way or another until Beta but hey Maybe they will read the thread someday if it's kept alive.
Posting my last comment here also (excuse the formatting):

"Posted by Blasco
It was changed to "wait and see". They decided that a non-definite answer was better."

"No, it's not better.

Look at how many posts have been on the forums about this very subject. Obviously "wait and see" is not a good enough answer for people. Heck, it's not even a real answer.

It's the equivalent of me telling my Mom "I don't know" when I knew I did something bad. Mom always saw right through that one. Her reply to "I don't know"? Give me a real answer."
. . .
05/14/2014 12:26 PMPosted by Killgraft
The original post that Shadowbolt pointed out was not referring to anyone in particular, but was directed at the other side as a whole.


I am trying to find the posts I made that she responded to that would lead to the conclusion that I was trolling?

05/14/2014 11:11 AMPosted by Sixenn
So why are you worked up over it? Is it's just !@#$%ing to be contrary, or drooling fanboy loyalty?


Seems harsh, insulting and not necessary doesn't it?


It should be noted that the post was not directed at me, just commenting that making it personal seemed harsh.

This was said, and I responded as can be seen.

Then Narcissia said:

Truth hurts does it?
DIRECTED AT ME.

To which I made no reply.

Which is followed by me being called a Troll?

The ridiculousness of the methods employed here is suggestive.

And I will leave it at that.

I would like to see anyone go back to that thread and see any trollish behaviour or posting.
05/14/2014 12:27 PMPosted by Zakath
It would really be so much easier if blizzard would combine the last 3 To fly or not to fly threads, take the post cap off and sticky it to the front page.


That would honestly have a good chance to be counterproductive. Long threads have better chances to veer off the cliff and get a giant snapshot of the community modded.
I thing I personally find a little flawed about the "choice" thing here is that, to me, a choice involves two separate options that have their own negatives and positives. In this sense, the choice involves one option that is empirically better than the other choice; there are no downsides to flying compared to ground travel.

A true choice here would have flying have it's own downsides; maybe a cool-down, a longer cast time, a fatigue system, or a slow ramp up of speed over a time, or something so when you have to chose between getting between from point A to point B, that one has to have it's own benefit over the other in certain situations. There is no reason to ever put a ground mount on a hotkey.

If you finish a quest and the rewards lets you choose between 100 gold, or 10,000 gold, that isnt really a true choice, because one is better than the other in every conceivable situation.
To me the actual method of travel itself is less of an issue than how that method provides two things, 1) speed and 2) control of destination.

Of all the travel methods, porting (in whatever form, including hearthing) is obviously fastest. It's primary drawback is that it can have severe limits over control of destination; you get one spot (a cavern, an inn, w/e) and that's it -- there's still some more travel from there needed to get to where you actually want to go.

Flying, is perhaps the most versitile of travel methods we have. It's far faster than walk/run. And is more precise of control over destination that porting/flilghtpathing. It is the best tool for the job of getting from A to B, all factors considered.

I've always felt the "you don't have to fly" argument a bit weak because it implies that one could take an obviously suboptimal "choice" and somehow not suffer some negative consequence as a result.
05/14/2014 12:36 PMPosted by Jujubiju
Look at how many posts have been on the forums about this very subject. Obviously "wait and see" is not a good enough answer for people. Heck, it's not even a real answer.

Yes, they come from the people asking for the answer they want to hear, not the honest answer. "Wait and see" is the honest answer. It might not satisfy you or players like you, but it doesn't need to if any other answer would be a lie.
05/14/2014 12:40 PMPosted by Aberzombie
I've always felt the "you don't have to fly" argument a bit weak because it implies that one could take an obviously suboptimal "choice" and somehow not suffer some negative consequence as a result.

This.

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