Guild Experience Change

General Discussion
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Once again proving that achievements were the second worst thing ever added to this game.
Where is the sense of achievement in any of this? I don't care if a power guild gets 25 in a week, I personally want to feel a sense of accomplishment when we reach the next level, when we unlock the next reward. Right now I feel as though we are simply being handed a portion of a level each day for doing nothing special. Why even have guild levels if it's going to be like this?

I think if anything you should reduce the guild xp gained through solo questing, raise the stupidly low cap per day, and keep the xp gained by guild achievements or reduce it if you must but don't zero it out. That just cheapens the entire system.

I have to agree with the sentiment here. As it is, a guild can do nothing to organized towards gaining experience faster. It's now completely based on having a guild active every day over a period of time. It'd be nice if we had something we could do as a guild to push the bar forward a bit faster. It doesn't need to be an extreme bonus, just a higher percentage than zero.

Though at least some of the achievements still have rewards attached that benefit the guild, such as the new fish feast, which will take some guild cooperation to get to in a reasonable length of time. If the xp from achievement idea is completely scrapped, I'd strongly recommend looking at where you can add more fluff or utility rewards to existing achievements.
I really do have to say, I'm pretty significantly disappointed that this happened. Not only have I been working to get my entire guild on track for pre-farming profession items and reputations in preparation for leveling the guild in Cataclysm, I also had a number of blog articles about the subject, including one that was featured on WoWInsider.

You cannot possibly have been ignorant that people were preparing, and you KNOW how players min/max to game systems.

I don't care that some other guild would beat us to 25 - I wanted more things to unite my guild, and get them working for a common goal. With the complete travesty Wrath was for organized guilds, I thought that perhaps you'd finally realized that as a social game, playing with my guild is what keeps me logging in.

I was so excited for this system, Blizzard. I'm really rather disappointed. I'm not going to ragequit, and I'm not going to start insulting your developers, but I am just simply disappointed. This was a poorly thought out, knee jerk reaction to something that should have been fixed well before now, the sort of thing that should never, ever have been allowed to go live if you were going to turn around and "suddenly" realize that the system is broken.

Not cool, bro, not cool.
I'm not a raider,but taking this away today was insulting.
12/07/2010 3:56 PMPosted by Kody
12/07/2010 3:51 PMPosted by Desi
[quote="13057944796"]Actually, I'm in a two-person guild and this completely sucks for us, so I'm not really sure what some of these "three person guilds" you are referring to were talking about :( While we knew we couldn't get most of the achievements we could get a few and they would have helped out towards our guild XP - now all we can do is quest on all our toons and maybe form a crappy 2v2 team :( I was really looking forward to some of these achievements and now I don't see the point in them.

Actually, I'm in a two person guild and most of these achievements are totally out of our range. We can't run old dungeons because 4 of the 5 people must be guildies, so the easiest ones to get would be next to impossible without adding more people. So this system they just hotfixed actually works in our favor since we'll at least be able to stay relatively close to the huge guilds. It'll still take a long time to really get anywhere, but I can see why they made the change.


Why should a two person guild be able to stay close to even a guild of 25 people, though? Your guild shouldn't even exist, based on the requirements to form a guild, let alone actually keep up with a guild more than 12 times your size.[/quote]

Actually a 2-person guild has every right to exist, people can play the game the way they want to. I enjoy pugging raids and I enjoy leveling alts w/ my husband, we are two person guild with 20 total characters in our guild. Because of this, we shouldn't be able to level as quickly or possibly even as far as a raiding guild or a large number guild - I never expected that and I never wanted that. What I wanted/expected was to be able to get a "nice chunk of guild xp" as Blizzard had put it for getting certain achievements - for example we would have been able to eventually have the max level character of every class & the "classy gnomes" achievement, we also would have been able to get (with enough time) some of the profession ones. Now we get nothing other than guild xp from doing quests - that you don't even have to be in a guild group to do.
All I can say is lol.

The Guild leveling and achievement system has been completely nullified and is worthless now.

My friends guild of three players, that cannot even raid, is leveling at the same pace of my large raiding guild...

So basically the only great thing about Cataclysm, has been removed.

Oh well. :)
Well too bad.
What is the point of this system now?

Really? To make a comparison, this system is like some 8 year old tee-ball league where everyone gets the same trophy at the end. Really Blizzard? That's what it feels like.

It is hard to understand how you did not see this coming... and therefore hard to swallow the reasoning. Especially after so much hard work by people. It was obvious to me that it was inherently a system that would have disparity. How you interpreted the beta experience just defies the fundamentals of the process you created and leaves me confused. Some guilds have people that barely log in, which is just common sense, so obviously there would be a curve just due to the fundamental nature of activity, or the lack of it. This can be expanded to more active and competitive guilds, which would be closer but still not equal (as you seemed to think it would end up, but to the extent that all guilds would be equal...what what?). But your explanation is just so vague..... You could not have really expected guilds to be 100% active across the board, just using common sense, so of course some guilds would be increasing at a much greater rate..

But.. why you made the solution the TOTAL elimination of a competitive system of any kind is just such a let down and hard to understand. This goes to the fundamentals of the system, which have drastically been changed, and really I am left with what I started with..

Whats the point?

Don't trivialize the time and energy people put into this already.
I forsee another reversion in this change, or at least altering the XP the guild achievements get. I feel almost embarassed for Blizzard if they keep it the way it is. This was something that a lot of people were doing a LOT of preparation for, and it was highly anticipated.

For your own sake change this crap back man. In the next week or two, most people are going to be hitting 85, Then what will be the point of the LEVEL 2 guild perk reward? Just, dumb.
To quote an equally frustrated post from WoWInsider:


"Terrible Change.

Given how easy it is to gain guild XP, at this point there seems to be no purpose for the guild leveling system. They might as well gate the system. This also removes the need/desire to do many of the achievements (that do not specifically reward items).

There is now no way for any guild to excel over any other guild (using this system). All guilds that have more than a handful of active players will level at the exact same rate. Where is the fun in that? What is the point of this system now? Imagine if leveling on your Toon you were limited to 4 bubbles of experience per day? That's exactly what this system is doing to guilds."
So when are hard modes being removed and drakes given away? I'm curious because I don't want to gear for raids if I'm going to have them mailed to me for logging in.

God forbid anyone go above and beyond the call of duty and bring their guild together with some guild achievement runs so they can get that little bit above the "oh so hard" daily cap.

Reduce the amount of XP given by like 80%, problem solved. Not a huge advantage, not game breaking, and still allows guilds to enjoy playing together in old content. You won't find guilds grouping with 25 to do old dungeons so they can get the guild credit when it can be done with 3 for personal achieves.

Congratulations, you've created guild achievements, they're exactly the same as personal achievements that people already have, but now you want an entire guild to do them, again, for what? A sense of belonging to your guild? I have a sense of belonging to my guild because I help them with quests, dungeons, I talk to them on a daily basis. I don't need to run RFC to reaffirm my status in my own guild, and I get no sense of accomplishment just because I'm doing it with guildies.

I would, however, do it if it gave me even the tiniest boost of guild xp. Even at an extremely reduced level. Let people set themselves apart from other guilds by leveling via different achievements. Oh cool the best guild on the server did glory of the cataclysm raider, lets try to catch up to them by massacreing the poor critters across azeroth tonight guys! Break out the stormchops it's crittergeddon time!

12/07/2010 5:20 PMPosted by Layosa
I don't... I honestly don't know what to say.

I don't know what I can say other than to add my voice to the numerous that have already posted and hope that we are heard.

Before Cata dropped, we, as a guild, spent many hours of planning into working towards realm first guild level 25. Almost every member of the guild was on board to make this happen. We were excited. Casual members who don't raid were excited.

This excitement went beyond the chance to experience the new content that was coming out. We were thrilled because, for the first time, there was a tangible benefit to doing things as a group in an organized fashion that extended to all of our members and not just a select few. And best of all, everyone could participate in making it happen.

We reached the guild daily exp cap in an hour. AN HOUR! (Yes, it feels low and could be adjusted with the amount of gxp needed to level.) We didn't even have that many members on (20-30 when a good night has 50) for the midnight launch nor were we shooting for it that quickly. So in order for us to get a little boost, we attacked the guild achievements with fervor.

We read in advance how the EU guilds were reset. But it honestly didn't cross our minds that it was because of guild achievements. We thought the gxp daily cap bugged out. After all, we thought, how could Blizz remove one of the most exciting features of the new game?

I'll admit. we were surprised at the rate at which we were able to level. I remember there was a 2.5 glvl guild posted earlier. We made glvl 3.8 before the "cataclysm" on achievement points dropped. (Without warning we "achieved" glvl 1.) By our tally, we made an additional 250 gxp every 10 points of achievement score plus a ridiculously high amount (almost 5-6 million) for every meta achieve (Classic Dungeonmaster and other achieves earned through many smaller ones).

This was -exciting-. This was one of the best things about the new expansion. We, as a guild, were cooperating at all levels to help one another out and many people sacrificed their first few hours in Cata to assist with dungeon runs and other achievements because we knew it was worthwhile and were seeing the benefits.

And now what are we left with after a collective effort? After the hundreds of man-hours on reputations ground up in advance? After the thousands of gold and time spent planning even to gain legendary weapons? After the sheer rush of actually accomplishing what we were setting out to accomplish? A glvl 1 that will proc glvl 25 at the same time as every other guild in the world.

So nerf it! A lot of fair suggestions have been made. Nerf it 80%. Get rid of the (frankly ridiculous) bonus gxp for the meta achieves and just base it on points. Grab that nerf bat and start whacking and adjusting until the gxp is in line with your ideal... But don't take it away. Don't make it a countdown timer. Don't remove the carrot that made every member of larger (and smaller) guilds feel like they were contributing in a tangible way.

I can't. I can't stress that last paragraph enough. I can't shout loud enough. I can only hope as I have said so many times and has been said so many times in the mere hours since this was posted, how much this mattered to the enjoyment of your game.

And I'm not certain I can convey in nice terms how angry this has made many of your customers. Small guilds and large guilds alike have chimed in how achievements were goals for them. We don't need or want bragging rights. We just wanted to do something to make being in the guild worth that much more.

Please Blizzard. Revisit this decision.

I cannot agree more with the OP.
This is so disappointing I am having hard time trying to figure out what to do. My guild is a small casual raiding guild. We are by no means, realm first achievers, and we are ok with that. The most exciting thing about this expansion was the guild leveling system and the way that Blizzard advertised it was to be implemented.

Our guild does not care if we get, or who gets for that matter, GL25 server first. A lot of people here have already expressed a lot of what I am upset about with this change, but something that I haven't seen talked about that really confuses me is the fact that the perks were not to be a game changer right? Blizzard modified the system from a guild talent system to the perks by level because to many thought that it would divide guilds bases on what they were going for (PvE, PvP, etc..). It was repeatidly talked about that the perks from the guild levels were not giving any major advantages to the higher level guilds.

So with that, why does it matter if a guild makes it to level 25 in ten days? Why take the entire system and make it worthless because some guilds in the world found a way to make that happen? Does a guild that makes level 25 have such an effect on every other guild in the world (Regardless of size) to justify this kind of change?

This system, as it was sold, was the most exciting thing about this expansion. The world changing is cool, the flying around Azeroth is cool, but this system was something that made guilds feel like a true guild instead of a group of people that shared a bank. Yes that is a complete understatement of most guilds. My point is, how does this change really help the overall community of the game?
A tragically poor implementation of the most highly anticipated system of the expansion. Shame on you, Blizzard of Irvine, California.
How are the realm firsts going to work, like guild level 25. Now that every guild levels at the exact same pace? Is it just whoever gets the most people to log in at 2AM and turn in the most quests right away on the last day?

This was obviously a ninja panic change, by some really inept game designer, that really messed up a mechanic of the new system.

Now its worse than the experience imbalance, and there is no real way to back pedal from it.

The correct response would have been to increase the experience required per guild level 5 times across the board. Yes I understand the small guild balance, I am sorry the system is worthless unless its actually difficult to reach the cap. The dedicated small guilds could make it, the ones that weren't, couldn't.
This was the dumbest thing done yet, besides deathknights. There's no longer any benefit from making your own 2man guild, and wee! I still get all the perks for free, cause I can keep leveling my alts.

On release day, after 8 hours of people zipping through exp grinds, you took away the lvl 2 xp.. considering we had to go to 25, that was too much? It still woulda taken another 2 days to get there with the other obviously dumb cap.

Does Blizzard hate large guilds? Its the large guilds that keep paying the $, to have something more than the next guy. 1/4 of today's population will be gone in 6 months.
A week or so ago, I was debating how fast guilds were going to level with a friend of mine who'd been in the beta. He was excited about all the perks we were going to have by the time we hit raiding strength again, predicting from the evidence in the beta that reasonably active guilds should be hitting level 25 in a month or two at most. I was pretty doubtful; I argued that that Blizzard couldn't possibly intend to have such a cool, hyped-up system become conceptual dead weight that quickly. I guess we were both wrong.
Alot of people have said it better than I could. This is a terrible idea and continues the trend of Blizzard doing " We got your money now, lets change a major feature"

Blizzard: Kings of content, contemptible to community.

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