Libram of Light: A Holy Paladins' Guide (6.2)

Prev 1 2 3 4 21 Next
Sacred shields lack of power resides in it's poor scaling.

Eternal Flame scales insanely well with Haste, and also works well with Mastery [300k EF crit with 50% mastery = 150k bubbles = awesome]
Selfless Healer scales insanely well with Mastery, and also works well with Haste [Shorter CD on Judge = more SH procs = more uber bubbles = awesome]
Sacred Shield doesn't scale with Mastery. Mastery actually doesn't affect Sacred Shield at all. Sacred Shield scales with Haste poorly. The added ticks from Haste have rather large breakpoints. Making any beyond the 2nd one really inaccessible. Sacred Shield also has zero synergy with any of our other stuff. It doesn't operate with Holy Power so Divine Purpose, Holy Avenger, and Sanctified Wrath* are useless with it. [Other than the increased duration of SW]

The power of SS only increases with Int. And nothing else really significantly. Comparatively EF and SH scale and synergize extremely well with everything we do.

Good question though. I should actually add parts of this to my main post to help clarify the choice.

Edit: And I'm not really certain on this but I don't believe Sacred Shield bubbles can crit like Disc bubbles. So theres that too.
Thanks for a really great post. I have had some great healing output improvements from your post. Is there a point where you do not want to stack mastery any further? I can't find any information on a cap.
07/19/2014 08:20 PMPosted by Faunia
I can't find any information on a cap.

Unless you're over 100% there is no cap. The only time you stop stacking Mastery is when it becomes a stat lose to stack it.

For example, if you're reforging and you're losing like 3000 haste for like.... 800 mastery. That is a poor exchange.

I have been healing on my druid for the last two expac's and now Im going back to my holy paladin to heal. (everything has changed so much since I last healed on the paladin). I will be starting my first run in Normal 10 man SoO next week and have been trying to gear up in the meantime. I think my ilvl is still a bit low to be running normal soO, but I think I will be carried by a MW monk and a really geared resto shaman. I have tried the EF healing and found that I am having severe mana issues, admittedly I tried it in LFR, just to try and get a feel for it. I have ended up going SH in LFR's. I did do a flexi run last night as SH, here are my logs:

I guess what I am asking, can I get away with SH build until I can get my combat mana regen up to go the EF build?. I have read that EF is better in 10 mans, I just don't think I have the mana regen for it yet.

Also, this question sounds a bit dumb, but when I do go EF build, is there anything else I should be casting other than HR,HR,HS? should I be using Holy lights on the beaconed Tank? or flash of lights? I need to be more dynamic?
Ill make sure I log out in my healing gear.
I don't usually post on these forums, because I am scared of getting crucified, but this thread has been very helpful to others, hence why I am posting. :)
Take care
You can definitely get away with SH in 10m. EF is just preferable. At your ilvl SH is the recommended spec. You did well choosing to go forward with it. Looking at your logs and your ilvl it seems like you did alright. You could get a bit more out of your CDs and Judgement [Via SH]. Edit: Looking at Logs again, you can do more by moving your beacon around too.

You are a little undergeared for 10m SoO. If the shaman is quite geared you should be fine. [I've carried a 510 resto druid and a 496 disc priest before]

You can go to EF when you're ~540 ilvl. You want to be at a comfortable spirit level, at least the 3506 Haste Breakpoint, and 30-40% mastery.

The "Rotation" for EF IS HRx2 > HS > EF. But you also need to be dynamic. That's just how you play when all is going well. If you use Holy Light use it on anyone BUT the beaconed player. Since 100% of HL is transferred to them. If you're in an emergency and someone is going to die, definitely Flash of Light or Divine Light them.

With SH you should pretty much just be doing Judge > HR > HS > LoD over and over unless it seems like you need to drop something else.

You can also replace the Beacon Glyph with Illumination if you want a bit of added mana regen. So long as you're Holy Shocking on CD it is a mana gain.

Continue to do all of SoO in Flex and RF if you have the time. In particular you're going to want to aim for getting 4 pieces of your tier16, a Prismatic Prism of Pride, and a Dysmorphic Samophlange of Discontinuity. Even if they are RF quality they will be of tremendous use to you.

I would recommend running ToT in normal or RF [Even heroic if you can get your guild to do it] at least up to Horridon. He's only the 2nd boss and his regen trinket is extremely good. Particularly given that you've got a green yet.

Keep me posted on your progress and any help you need. If you want I can come do a flex with you or something if your guild schedules them.

Feel free to add my B-tag @ EnaluEmakaru#1191
Thank you for your post. It is very much appreciated. And thank you also for your hard work in doing the guide. Its a shame its not stickied yet.
I finally got around to buying a graphics card that can play the game on anything above the lowest of the lowest graphic settings, so I have no more excuses to not run flex/normal. (I miss my old raid group. D:)

To hit ~15,000 spirit (I've never used EF and I'll be pugging Flex/Normal, so I'm thinking I should run high), and 7170 haste, Askmrrobot is telling me to do things to my gear that are criminal in all states except Missouri. (Trade 5733 mastery for 2135 spirit and 3598 haste by swapping pretty much all my gems to purples and reforging to a lot of haste) Like Gohan in Team Four Star's DBZ Abridged, I need an adult:

To hit ~15,000 spirit and stay at 3506 haste , it still tells me to do lots of regemming, but my mastery would stay at 39.79% buffed instead of 32.19%.
07/21/2014 02:50 PMPosted by Boggyb
I finally got around to buying a graphics card that can play the game on anything above the lowest of the lowest graphic settings, so I have no more excuses to not run flex/normal. (I miss my old raid group. D:)

To hit ~15,000 spirit (I've never used EF and I'll be pugging Flex/Normal, so I'm thinking I should run high), and 7170 haste, Askmrrobot is telling me to do things to my gear that are criminal in all states except Missouri. (Trade 5733 mastery for 2135 spirit and 3598 haste by swapping pretty much all my gems to purples and reforging to a lot of haste) Like Gohan in Team Four Star's DBZ Abridged, I need an adult:

To hit ~15,000 spirit and stay at 3506 haste , it still tells me to do lots of regemming, but my mastery would stay at 39.79% buffed instead of 32.19%.

If you cannot hit 15k is because of you item lvl, then dont it. You'll have to throttle your healing instead.

When it comes to healing AMR is AWFUL, because Healing isn't about numbers its about feel. It's good for basic swapping and if your already in a good spot iLvl wise. Your in the good but not great 540 ilvl zone. I would not gem spirit if you dont have too. I would just not reforge spirit in your case and just bump your ilvl up.
It isn't even about hitting 15,000. If I don't gem spirit, I'm going to be sitting at 12865 spirit unless I use a spirit flask instead of an intellect one because I'm not reforging out of spirit on any piece and I'm reforging to spirit with my highest stat on the two pieces that don't currently have spirit.

As for your comment about Askmrroboto on healing, things like haste break points or hitting certain spirit levels ARE about numbers. (How you determine what numbers you want can be about feel) If you only want 13,000 spirit, set spirit to a certain value up to that point and a significantly lower value below that.

Went ahead and picked up the other Conquest Holy ring which pushes me to 13476 spirit.
07/21/2014 02:50 PMPosted by Boggyb
To hit ~15,000 spirit and stay at 3506 haste , it still tells me to do lots of regemming, but my mastery would stay at 39.79% buffed instead of 32.19%.

Do that, sorry for late response I'm changing my sleeping hours and had to take a short nap =3

07/21/2014 03:08 PMPosted by Priyanka
When it comes to healing AMR is AWFUL, because Healing isn't about numbers its about feel.

^ Truth. But with edited weights you are able to achieve the numbers you want and retain the feel you want also.

Here are my weights
Int - 1.0
Spell Power - 1.0
Spirit to Cap - 2.0
Mastery - .65
Haste to Cap - .60
Crit -.55
Haste Post Cap - .50

I use the 10867 Haste BP
Spirit cap is Total EFFECTIVE spirit at 25000

When I use these weights for YOU, you lose about 10% Mastery for 1.5k spirit and 10% Haste. [To 7170 Breakpoint mind you] This is totaly acceptable if you really want the 7170 haste BP.

If I drop you down to the 3506 one...You lose 2.7% Mastery and gain 1.5k spirit and the rest stays about the same. So it looks like you should probably stick to 3506 for now. No shame in that.

07/21/2014 01:40 PMPosted by Raysie
Thank you for your post.

Lastly @ Raysie thanks and hopefully we'll be stickied soon, Highly Rated now though! & Good Luck!
First off this guide has helped me immensely in understanding whatever it is I'm doing with my gear. Nice job
Second I have some questions.
I am sitting at the second haste BP and its 28.72% unbuffed. So does this make the 5% spell haste I get in a raid useless? Or are all the haste BP's separated at 5%?
Also I have EF and DP but sometimes I feel like I make the wrong choice by using LoD when DP procs. Though I do that only after both tanks have EF on them.

I am also bad at using my AW DF and GoAK at times. I kinda just use them all at the same time and hope for the best.

Any advice would be great thank you. I have never posted in the forums before.
Hey Whät this is Andrasté. I had my brother post this on his account. I literally just ran out of account time and don't have sufficient funds till later this week to re-sub =x

So at 25.03% haste we gain a 3rd tick on Eternal flame. This is either 5806 haste without the +5% spell haste buff, or 3506 WITH the +5% spell haste buff. Usually we assume we will have the spell haste buff in any serious raid setting so we set up our stats as such.

Some breakpoints for you.

Holy Avenger is usually better than Divine Purpose. If you are using DP you should use the proc to put an Eternal Flame on someone who doesn't have it. The only time LoD is really acceptable is Norushen, Thok, and during GotAK.

The power of EF lies in it's HoT. And you want to spread that around the raid as much as possible with 3 HoPo EFs.

If you use Holy Avenger, you should macro it, or at least use it with Divine Favor and put EF on as many people as you can in the raid. [in 10m that's about 7-9 usually]. This should typically be used pro-actively. Pre-blanketing the raid with EF before the big crazy AoE.

Avenging Wrath and GotAK should be macro'd together, or at least used together re-actively. You CAN use them pro-actively to help build up bubbles but it's a better re-active healing tool. When using AW/GotAK it is okay to LoD if you think you need to. This is your "Oh sh*t!" heal CD.

edit: I'll re-post this on Andrasté when I can to keep things straight lol
If you're good at managing your mana
go Haste>Mastery>Spirit
Esp if you're going selfless healer. You'll be generating more holy power than
you would master in turn increase your hps.
Yes i understand Mastery is nice because of the bubble. But in terms of constantly moving
and chance of spell cancelled because of movement. Haste will pull in front.

You should also Macro your Beacon with Divine Light. It helps in using divine light on people you need to do big heals on.

07/17/2014 08:48 PMPosted by Andrasté
Eternal Flame scales insanely well with Haste, and also works well with Mastery [300k EF crit with 50% mastery = 150k bubbles = awesome]
i don't think the ticks work with mastery anymore.
In PvE you shouldn't be constantly moving. And for SH especially it's even less useful because SH reduces the cast time of your spells by a tremendous amount already.

While I do personally think high haste builds have some value. For progression and new raiders they will see a lot more mileage out of Mastery because of how Absorbs add Effective Health to the raid. It's much more valuable to a guild just starting progression than re-active healing.

Beacon [Only with the glyph obvz] should be macro'd to FoL and DL for the added HoPo for optimal usage. I think I have to macro on here somewhere. I'll double check if it's not I'll add it.

Mastery does indeed not work with EF ticks anymore.[In WoD it will] But when you pick EF you increase the power of your WoG exponentially, making it the single strongest heal you have. In my example I was showing how when you apply EF to someone, it does get Mastery going, and it puts a large bubble on your target in addition to the HoT. [When I use AW and EF on someone a Crit EF will put a full IH on them]
If its just a pure casting fight even re-active healing will get you a bubble on your target. Faster Casting of heals either re-acting or not haste will bring you a better hps along with faster holy power generation which would make up or be even greater than the small amount of mastery you are missing. Again Reactive healing will also create a bubble even if you are over-healing.
The argument you're making is like the argument between Disc and Holy. Holy favors higher throughput and is totally re-active. Disc favors low raw healing, but has huge pro-active bubbling.

Yes, all healing always applies Illuminated Healing.
Yes, haste can bring you higher HPS, just like Holy can do more HPS than Disc.
Yes, you get faster HoPo generation.

But, the difference between 20% mastery and 50% mastery is that you have to cast LESS spells per fight in order to gain the same level of Absorption Healing.
Higher HPS is great, but HPS isn't everything. Imagine for a second the tank gets an unlucky streak of failed mitigation active or otherwise, in combination with a bosses big AoE. Your tank will probably be scrambling to survive and you'll be scrabbling to get him up. But remember, your whole raid took a huge hit too. So now you've got to blow a CD to get everyone back to normal. Oh... And this scenario happens every 60 seconds.

So now 60 seconds passes and it all happens again, except this time you don't have a CD to pull it all together. We've just wiped. Because while you were able to save the tank and a couple dps, a few died and you're in a progression fight.

In comparison. A mastery stacked paladin takes your spot next week for whatever reason. He is able to quickly and easily get a nice big bubble up and ready before this AoE. Oh and he also has a nice decent stream of bubbles on the tank to help aid his periods of DR on passive mitigation and derp on active mitigation. So when this unlucky streak of low mitigation and raidwide AoE happens. The raid is pretty much fine. The tank is also pretty fine. Your bubbles gave him a nice buffer zone to get things back in order and the raid is nowhere near panic mode. There is little to no reactive healing required. at this point.

So now 60 seconds passes and it all happens again, except this time.... nothing changes, you still got your CD, and with your awesome mastery you were able to efficiently and quickly bubble the raid up. No one has died, and oh look, you're getting close to downing this progression fight. Good work team!

See what I mean? I love playing a Holy Priest. I really enjoy a High Haste build on my paladin, but the benefits of a steady nice pro-active damage reducing bubble healer outweigh a high HPS haste healer that has to react to the crazy damage happening.

I appreciate your viewpoints but for the progressive viewpoint Mastery is just way better. There is a reason that all 14/14 HM paladins ran /run 50%+ mastery and not high haste.
Mastery is vastly stronger then haste.
07/22/2014 11:23 PMPosted by Andrasté
And this scenario happens every 60 seconds.
Since Hand of Sac is a 2min cd and you get 2 charges if spec'd into it. Won't matter i'll have a cd up for it all the time.
As haste you won't have to blow a CD because your heals are fast enough to bring the tank back up as well as your holy power generation is more than suffice to heal the tanks back to full as well as putting a bubble that is constantly grown per heal. And during those 60s there are raid dmg going out as well as stuff you have to constantly look out for. You're moving and continuously getting interrupted. How will mastery heal if the bubble is already off and you're moving. where as haste has the speed to cast a heal off before having to move against a mastery. Yes i see what you're trying to say with putting bubbles on your raid and having to pre heal them so they can survive. As haste you don't have to worry about pre-healing. Yes they'll take a little more damage than mastery would, but haste wouldn't have to worry about wasting mana in pre-healing a group rather haste would be able to generate enough holy power for LoD along with casting HR. Yes i understand the tank would be get a bubble but that bubble is continuously getting knocked of where as haste even though its knocked off we wont' have to worry if our heals will make it in time to get the tank back up. If you want to make a solid argument don't make a 60s scenario thinking i don't have cds for it. First Minute, Hand of Sac, 2nd Min, Hand of Sac, 3rd min Hand of sac, ect.

Here it is without the talent, Hand of Sac. AW, Hand of Sac, DF, Hand of Sac. AW. shoud i continue?
Hand of Sacrifice doesn't count an a Raid CD. It only affects your tank. So yeah, your tank will be okay. Probably. But you're still going to need to heal him and the raid pretty heavily so a CD is recommended.

And it isn't about who gets the bubbles on first. Mastery builds bigger bubbles faster.

Just to simplify, let's talk about Divine Light on one target.

It hits for 100k every time no matter what. [As you increase the power of each heal Mastery gains even more ground vs Haste so we'll pick a nice easy 100k for simplicity] <{1M heal with 50% mastery = 500k bubble = 1.5mil heal vs 1M heal with 25% mastery = 250k bubble = 1.25mil heal}

Mastery paladin has 7170 Haste which is 35% haste. He also has 50% mastery
Haste paladin has 60% haste, and 25% mastery.
[Running your own character through AMR I am able to get 35% Haste 46% Mastery and 56% Haste 27% Mastery so we'll say for the simplicity of numbers we're interchanging Haste and Mastery]

The Mastery Paladins cast time for Divine Light is 1.85
The Haste Paladins cast time for Divine Light is 1.56

They are casting for a total of 60 seconds [Assume mana is a non-issue]
The Mastery Paladin gets off 32 casts. Amounting to 3.2 million healing
The Haste Paladin gets off 38 casts. Amounting to 3.8 million healing

50% of the Mastery Paladins healing is also made into absorbs. So that's 1.6 million.
25% of the Haste Paladins healing is also made into absorbs. So that's 950k

Add these values together.
The Mastery Paladin ends up with a grand total of 4.8m healing
The Haste Paladin ends up with a grand total of 4.75m healing

But we also need to see that the Mastery Paladin will prevent a whopping 650k more damage than the Haste Paladin.
And this is of course assuming 0% overhealing. Let's say we had a 50% overheal. Which isn't out of the norm.

So the Mastery Paladins original 3.2 million is now 1.6 million.
So the Haste Paladins original 3.8 million is now 1.9 million.

Add the absorbs [which are unaffected by overheal]
The Mastery Paladin is back up to 3.2 million healing.
The Haste Paladin is back up to 2.85 million healing.

Now let's throw another twist in. You have a Disc priest who is on average absorbing 2 million damage during this interval of 60 seconds.

Both the Mastery and Haste paladin do effectively 0 raw healing.
However the Mastery Paladin still does an effective 1.6 million healing.
However the Haste Paladin still does an effective 950k healing.

Now lets talk about the health cap on Illuminated Healing.
Both paladins have 400k health. So they can create a maximum Illuminated Healing of 132k.

The Mastery Paladin can create this maximum bubble in 3 Divine Lights.
The Haste Paladin can create this maximum bubble in 6 Divine Lights.

Those 3 casts by the Mastery Paladin take him 5.55 seconds
Those 6 casts by the Haste Paladin take him 9.36 seconds

In a Heroic raid environment, that difference of 4 seconds can be pretty huge. Those 3 extra casts might not make it. As you keep pointing out, you might be moving. So yeah, the Haste Paladin gets his casts off a whopping .3 seconds faster, but he also has to cast more for the same affect.

In Normal raids, it doesn't make much difference between the two playstyles, as long as you're a good player it will come out in a wash. [I played both to clear Normal, I also toyed around with Crit]

The point of any guide [and definitely this one] is to get players, new or old, on the right track to do well in their chosen environment. I assume most players[who raid] have aspirations of Heroic raiding at some point. If only to try it not even to clear it. And in this light, it's best to show them the proven best techniques. I'm all for creativity and trying new things. But after a year of SoO all heroic paladins have unanimously stated that Mastery is better for progression. I just did simple napkin maths to back that up.

07/23/2014 01:31 AMPosted by Shuttle
Mastery is vastly stronger then haste.

^22 kills on heroic garrosh and in one of the best guilds in the world

Oh, and we can replace Divine Light with Holy Radiance in this example because they have the same cast time. Give it a flat healing number like 10k on each target and you come up with the same data. Mastery actually pulls even further ahead because now he's got [lets say 10] targets that are getting big full juicy bubbles.

A quick analysis;
10k x 10 targets x 32 casts = 3.2 Mil with 160k absorption on each player
10k x 10 targets x 38 casts = 3.8 Mil with 95k absorption on each player
50% overheal = 1.6 Mil heal + 1.6 mil absorbs = 3.2 Mil Total Healing
50% overheal = 1.9 Mil heal + 950k absorbs = 2.85 Mil Total Healing
10k x 50% mastery = 5k 132k/5k = 27 casts to fill up everyones bubble
10k x 25% mastery = 2.5k 132k /2.5k = 53 casts to fill up everyones bubble
27 casts x 1.85 seconds = 50 seconds to fill up everyones bubble
53 casts x 1.56 seconds = 83 seconds to fill up everyones bubble

As you can see the numbers come out exactly the same [that just happens because I picked 10k at random]. But the important thing to note in this example is the difference in the individual player absorbs. There is a 65k difference in their absorbs. And in the general AoE sense this is pretty significant. In current ~560 raid environment that is 10% of player health.

Lastly. I agree. In normals you don't need to worry about pre-bubbling. But in Heroic content you kind of do. Go try Heroic Sha of Pride without using a raid CD or pre-bubbling the raid before Swelling Pride. I don't think it will end well.
I'm healing with a shaman now :)

dis gon be good.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum